I'm not a US citizen, but in the US last summer I was able to view your Senate and House from the gallery.
In just about 4 hours of watching your politicians. I saw perfectly good ideas proposed by one side get rejected and blocked by the other side, simply because they were the oppositions ideas.
We get a similar thing here in the UK.
It's quite tragic really, that we can't do what's best for the country as a whole, because of our career politicians and ridiculous party based divisions
Funny how it's always the people that unconditionally support "free markets" and "limiting the reach of government power" that want government to use its power to control people on something so trivial-- something that represents a healthy market, no less.
*slow clap* Well man, you summed that up about perfectly. I like how you don't actually *use* it either, and didn't try to be unrealistic with how much it'd help, just a good solid step in the right direction, like you said.
@SecretSm0ke A lot of people don't understand why I'd be so concerned for others to have the right to do something I chose not to do. I've found that strange for as long as I can remember. Some don't understand why I consider bans on alcohol or homosexuality ridiculous even though I'm not a drinker, or a homosexual. They freedom to consume what you want and have consensual sex with who you want are simply victimless, and thereby are no one's right to condemn in my opinion.
I am in what I suspect is the minority for supporting the legalization of marijuana - for the reasons you outline - but am a harsh critic of its actual use.
Indeed, I suspect that the legalization arguments would do somewhat better if not for the moronic potheads who actually make claims like marijuana cures cancer.
I like your last point. I agree legalizing pot would improve the country, but it disgusts me when people willingly break the law by using illegal substances while expecting the government to honor their voices and legalize it.
@oOpumpkinheadOo Yeah, but there's a problem there too. Drugs are addicting yet we lock them up instead of trying to rehabilitate them. When someone's addicted to alcohol or cigarettes, we have great sympathy with them and try to help them over it. Crack and heroine are FAR more addictive, so they should command greater sympathy for rehab. Not doing so makes as much sense as comforting a kid over his dead brother but then condemning a kid who lost their whole family.
During alcohol prohibition, gangs used alcohol as business. With that also has to come ways to bribe police/politicians, kill other gang members, and eliminate police that want to stop the gang in question.
Now let's compare that to pot...you know, legalizing marijuana would help with minimizing crime. It wouldn't do much but hey, it's better than nothing.
A very good argument. I lost my faith in the government being able to do anything right a long time ago. I guess that's why I consider myself to be a libertarian because I want our mostly ineffectual federal government to stop telling states and people how to live their lives. Also, keep in mind that most of the people that have been elected to office were the sorts of people that would have been the hall monitors in your school - brown nosing jerks.
@Mirkwoods That's a concept to be considered, but how far can we take it? Do you want your state government telling you how to live your life based on what most people in your state think? Do you want your local government telling you how to live your life based on what they they, or most people in your city think? The concept has to be thought all the way through- though obviously, no system of government is without significant flaws.
@GrapplingIgnorance Of course, I cannot argue with that and whenever possible, I prefer to let people make their own choices and the government should be kept out of as much as possibly they can be. On the other hand, that system is anarchy and doesn't really work either so you have to have the government run a certain number of things but keeping government as small as possible on every level is best.
Let me fuckin decide about what I put in MY body... As long as I dont harm anyone, who the fu.. cares? Reasons for illegality of marihuana is, I believe, is the cotton/paperpulp/medicinal industries(these are the industry that will suffer from legalisation) that would have an amounting loss of profit. No medicinal records supports the U.S mentality of making it a "class A" drug(in same category as heroin, crack, cocaine)
@ShakeySurgeon I tend to be in favor of legalizing harder and harder drugs as we progress, but I think society would adjust best if this was done gradually rather than going from all of them being illegal to all of them being illegal at once.
I hate to make Alex Jones type noises, but I find it plausible that the corporate controled gov't desperately wants to maintain & grow all of the privately controlled prison space that they can get. That way, they can dump all of the pot smokers unceremoniously onto the streets, to suddenly make room for all of the political dissidents that they're creating with their economic warfare. A crazy idea, but the most logical one that I can think of as an excuse to continue a senseless prohibition.
@Irishlumberjack Also, the damage to lungs and liver are long term effects for repeat use. They take time to build up. Chemical changes though may be more drastic, and because it is the brain itself we are talking about, may occur long before any lung damage would.
Also, once again, my comments aren't about justifying a prohibition, it is about intellectual integrity of the discussion itself. You can't ignore aspects and still hope to be taken seriously.
@Irishlumberjack There comes a point though where a products inherent danger is prevented by laws. And you still haven't even addressed the complaints at all, just sidestepped with that strawman. Also, the aspect of bringing up and discussing the effects shows a more holistic approach and understanding that in turn demonstrates a more rational argument for it. I have seen many causes wash over the negatives just to try to get what they want. In the process, they abandon intellectual credibility.
People with too strong opinions should NEVER be in power. If a person is not dynamic enough, they might exclude counter evidence as they almost view it as a conspiracy. Of course, its very common in the political arena to have different opinions, and these opinions are often "respected". In my opinion, only the opinions and strategies that can be confirmed, through systemanalysis or other method, to be "sustainable", can be labeled as right.
but see, the problem is, if the people you control are just sitting on their couches all day killing their brain cells, they're not very useful to you are they?
@GrapplingIgnorance Well they're more active at least. And it sure helps the money flow when you need to take someone to the hospital after a domestic "accident" or a shitload of more beer. Now if they only allowed marijuana to be smoked in certain buildings where you could buy it and food, THAT would get a lot of profit. But still, think about it, prop 19 wasn't passed, probably because everyone was getting high in their houses. If alcohol was illegal instead (continued)
@GrapplingIgnorance and prop 19 was for the legalization of beer, I'm pretty sure a lot more people who drink would have gone the the amount of people who smoke (that I'm guessing) went.
@DeathnoteBB The idea that not enough people voted for prop 19 is strictly a result of people that wanted marijuana legal were all sitting at home smoking pot is an incredibly intellectually immature position to take. The voter turn out for the last federal elections in 2010 was 37.8%. Do you think that's because the rest of the country was at home smoking pot or because it was disenchanted with it's government and apathetic about the possibility of impending change being real?
@GrapplingIgnorance Oh yeah, I remembered something. You know how some pharmacies sell medical marijuana over the counter? Some people I know have thought that because the medical community can legally sell it, it'll lose value if it's just sold legally, thus getting rid of a lot of profit for them. I could be wrong on terms there, but still, it could be because they'd get less money because you wouldn't need to have a medical condition to buy it.
@DeathnoteBB The medicinal argument there really makes no sense to me. Right now it 's available in some places as a prescribed form of medical treatment. It's value as a treatment would not diminish just because its legal. Aspirin is a legal over the counter medicine that doctors can recommend to patients. The pharmacy doesn't have to make money off of it. Plenty of over the counter products and home remedies are perfectly legal, benefiting economic flow in their own ways.
@DeathnoteBB people do not control other people. if you are talking about the employer employee relationship, then if you do have staff or workers sitting on their ass all day smoking weed, then the employer will fire them and hire someone who wont sit on their ass all day.
even if marijuana is legal not everyone will smoke it. example: not everyone drinks or smokes.
which goes to my second point. not everyone will be stoned off their ass 100% of the time.
people smoke cigarettes and drink alcohol but they dont let it affect their work. some people will let weed take over their lives,like some people let alcohol ruin their lives, but that is the individuals problem to work through.
@AceofDiamonds0 On that note, aren't there already people who let illegal substances take over their lives? I don't see any evidence to suggest that making something illegal stops people from using and abusing it. I maintain that education is still the best means of solving that.
I say de-criminalize it, but there are genuine risks to having someone stoned out of their mind operating heavy machinery or something like that. So, I don't know how well this will all go over, but it's bullshit that it's being used to jail people and treat them like felons. It has genuine medical uses, so why label it schedule 5? At least make it available via prescription and lower the drug schedule. There are lots of reasons to decriminalize MJ.
@brmadman4455 There are genuine risks to people operating heavy machinery etc. when they're drunk too. Alcohol is still legal. Just because a substance is legal doesn't mean that we can't regulate its use to require it be used responsibly.
@GrapplingIgnorance I often thought about this, and since THC sits in your system so long I just can't picture companies making correct judgements regarding somebody's sobriety. Believe me, I'm all for legalizing it, but because of the inherent differences in the bodies uptake of THC and alcohol, I think there are some major challenges for the workforce. Insurance companies will up their rates. I think, the best way is by making it available on by prescription.
@GrapplingIgnorance It's also been proven that driving under the influence of alcohol is FAR more dangerous than driving under the influence of marijuana.
Don you understand that "It will kill fewer people than cigarettes!" could apply to just about anything? I mean seriously, by that logic cocaine could be legalized...and I seem to remember you not being very fond of drug dealers in other videos.
@Houshalter If it was legal it wouldn't be for everyone (Like alcohol isn't legal for individuals under 21 in the USA.) Drug dealers would still deal other drugs which we cannot afford to legalize (like meth.)
@Houshalter Cannibis is a great thing with hundreds of uses. Seriously, even the declaration was written on paper made from cannibis, but at the end of the day it is harmful. The problem is that so few people know that because the great lie today is "there is nothing wrong with cannibis" and no one really looks into it because they want a reason to smoke it.
I advocate for legalization for these reasons... (1) Sending college kids to prison for a harmless act is not the American Way. What if your kid was jailed for a a small amount? (2) the war agains drugs has failed and has costed us billions. If someone wants pot, there gonna get it, by legal means or otherwise... (3) if tobacco and alcohol can kill millions and still be available, why not a considerably harmless plant? (4) It's not a gateway drug like cigarettes and booze are...parents are the
@Irishlumberjack The classification of the drug determines how it affects the person in question and therefore would be of the most importance. If the drug's type description reads as "permanent chemical changes within the brain", it suddenly takes on a far more serious aspect then temporarily induced stupors and after long term accumulative physical damage. If it permanently alters the brain's chemistry, as hallucinogens are prone to do, it would be important in the case for or against it.
If had the choice of going down to Wal-Mart and getting some for like 5 bucks, rather than going downtown, risk getting mugged or murdered by some gangbanger, and pay 500 for some, which market do you think is gonna succeed? Weed doesn't do anything for me except make me want to sleep. It's fucking harmless, more so than fucking booze. This shouldn't be illegal, but like others have said, the government and their contractors make money off incarcerating the innocent.
Pot is classified as a hallucinogen. Though the physical aspects are far less severe then cigarettes and alcohol, the alteration to the mental state may have even longer lasting effects and when comparing a hallucinogen to a depressant drug, it is shaky and could be seen as apples to oranges.
Not saying we shouldn't legalize, but perhaps a more in-depth video going over any longer term effects based on it being a hallucinogen and how that sort of drug is treated versus depressants.
@krazyurbanheadhunter "The prison system is big business, and any elected official who champions this issue would be committing political suicide." So when I hear Americans boasting that it is a Government for the Peopl of the People, then its BS? It should be "for the Corporations of the corporations"? I shudder to think of a system that deliberately tries to keep people in jail to make cheap military helmets, wash cop cars and create a service inductry. Is this my paranoia or reallly true?
@NoFaithNoPain That is the way it works, I’m not being pessimistic when I say that. A business operates to make money; they will do everything within their influence to increase the demand for their product/service. Politicians are people like everybody else, they have their career to think about, the only way to gain/hold a position in public office, is to put your personal political career first. This shouldn’t be news to anybody; things in a free market democracy have always worked that way.
I don't think pot is any better than cigarettes, but I don't think cigarettes should be legal. My childhood was ruined by both my parents' smoking and pot smoking habits. Honestly, this is a hard issue... It's not good to waste tax money fighting this - but, non-medically, people just shouldn't smoke pot. It makes you stupid and harms your lungs, let alone the other effects it might have. When it comes to people's freedom to hurt themselves and tax money, things get really messy.
@ArcasDevlin see theres no sense in making cigarettes or alcohol illegal either because then as he stated it would simply be sold illegally and put more people in prison for stupid reasons while people who are commiting actual crimes are getting off scott free, i agree people shouldn't smoke pot but that isn't going to happen any time soon but if they are going to smoke it there is no sense in imprisoning them for it
@KrazyEngima Smoking shouldn't be illegal only for the reasons pot should be legal... Honestly, my entire opinion on this is too long for a youtube comment. Like I said in my original post, it's messy.
It's partly about the old age of politicians and voters. Many are too afraid to support legalization of a substance which the elderly (i.e. keen voters) perceive as an irresponsible party drug. Elderly people tend to be rigid and trapped in the old days, unwilling to accept the superior modern knowledge over their own. This would involve a crushing blow to the vane human ego as they'd have to tear down decades of wrong lore. Thus, they think their old ways are w/o flaw. It's complicated.
no chance - or at least not just like that. any government that legalised it would loose the next election. ~far too many people will say "You killed my child because he took Cannabis after you legalised it" and the whole thing will be reversed and the Politition responsible never elected again. In the UK Canabis was downgraded to class C and then the government lost its nerve and put it back to class B against all its scientific and political advice. The Public is stupid
@NoFaithNoPain But, the silly thing is that weed can't kill you, no amount can, if they said that, the public is stupid and deserves to be thrown into a bar to work as cow milkers.
@TheCalebthebest The argument is, their ki got depressed after yeas on abuse from a young age and threw himself under a train, or he then became a heroin user and O/D'd and its YOUR fault for making this evil drug legal you bastard blah blah blah and people fall for it because the TV stations are so damned biased and the politician looses his career.
My problem with marijuana and smoking is that they cause harm, not only to those using the drugs, but to the environment and those around them. It's unfair and unjust that a perfectly kind person who has taken care of their body for their entire life would have to die because of second-hand smoke.
@AwesomeRants Then just regulate marijuana smoking the same way they are regulating the smoking of tobacco and alcohol. Disallow it in public areas and build smoking areas in restaurants and bars. Disallow driving while under the influence and put up an age limit. If people start switching from alcohol to pot as a recreational drug then the amount of deaths per year will be drastically reduced, that includes car accidents and substance abuse related deaths.
@Houshalter Couldn't have read a more idiotic reply. Did you consider little kids? Did you consider the a-holes who stand in front of public places and smoke cigarettes now? If pot becomes legal, that might happen with it too. Smokers can't be avoided, because most of them are selfish about their habit and they don't care who they hurt.
@Houshalter Just because one stupid thing is allowed, that doesn't make another stupid thing any better. I was replying to your comment to someone else, telling them to just avoid smokers... I was merely informing you that it's not plausible.
@ArcasDevlin you can avoid places that allow smoking though. No one is forcing you to stand next to them. As for children, are you saying smokers shouldn't be allowed to have kids?
@Houshalter So I should avoid grocery stores, crosswalks, and public parks because people who smoke should have the right to harm me with their bad habit, more than I have the right to fresh air? And as for children, smoking around your kids hurts them more than slapping them around, and you wouldn't do that... would you? I think there are a few parents who are very careful around their children; they always smoke outside, not near their kids, never smoked during pregnancy... but those are rare.
@ArcasDevlin yes, you have a choice to go to places that allow smoking or not. And if you ban smokers from having kids, you would also have to set the same standard for people that are at risk for spreading genetic diseases, people that can't afford adequate insurance for them, etc.
@Houshalter Yes, I could stay in my house, but that's about it. I've never seen a grocery store that bans smoking outside its doors. Maybe they exist, but I haven't seen one. Hell, I saw someone smoking in front of the doors to the hospital the other day. When I told the receptionist, all she said she could do was ask him to leave. As for kids, I didn't say that they were "disallowed". I said the smoking around them is abusive and it's not comparable to someone who has a genetic predisposition.
@Houshalter Especially since everyone has a predisposition toward some genetic problems. Also, smoking is a choice - and a stupid choice at that. "I was born a smoker" doesn't work. You want kids? Quit smoking. Also, at least in my state, (but I think in most,) pregnant women and children can get state-sponsored insurance, and even if they don't, it's illegal for parents to neglect the health of their children. Insurance just means the parents don't have to pay for visits.
@Houshalter But this argument seems so ridiculous, (Smokers have the right to harm you more than you have the right to fresh air,) that it almost feels like I'm arguing with a troll. So you'll have to excuse me if I don't reply again.
And BTW, as far as people smoking in bars and other recreational indoor places like that, at least more adult places, or in certain restaurants, I am fine with that, because I can avoid those places without avoiding my most conventional needs.
@ArcasDevlin "Smokers have the right to harm you more than you have the right to fresh air". What a straw man. You don't have a "right" to fresh air, you have a right to do whatever the fuck you want with your self or your property as long as it doesn't hurt others. If more people than just you cared enough, there would be a demand for grocery stores that didn't allow smoking, but most people don't care, and you shouldn't get to legislate your personal preferences on to the rest of society.
@Houshalter What straw man? I'm attacking this idea that smokers should be allowed to smoke in public places. If your point is something else, you'll need to clarify that.
"as long as it doesn't hurt others" It does hurt others. That's the point. I used to have a neighbor who smoked right outside the door to my apartment, because hers was there as well. Tell me how to avoid that.
*A lot* of people care but not enough to ban together... and in fact, the rules are changing - slowly.
@ArcasDevlin you are missing the point. Public places does not include private property, like grocery stores or appartments. If those places want to ban smoking they are welcome to, and you are welcome not to go there if you don't want to. You can't compare smoking on your own property to killing people or drinking and driving. It's absurd.
Legislate my personal preferences? If killing was legal, would you not complain about that? Why not take a look at history and think of what would happen if no one fought for their minority views, for what was, (as objective as morals can be,) objectively right? Yes, this is a moral issue, because it harms other people. It's that simple. If you drink and drive, you get arrested, because your bad habit should not harm people.
@Houshalter I want to protect people, including myself, my friends and innocent children who can do nothing about it. What is more important to you? The health of innocent people or the right to others to do their habit, that harms both them and everyone around them, nearly anywhere and around anyone they feel like?
The threat of having people think for themselves is too high. For the shadow masters it is better to keep most people stupid and set in their ways of thinking or in jail.
There isn't enough ability for citizen involvement. I send emails to my representatives regularly and all I get is a form letter in return. Both parties sux so voting is pointless. We need to put voting on the web and vote more often. For example, we should vote right now to stay or leave in the wars we have.
Let's legalize (or at least decriminalize) all hard drugs along with it. And another HUGE boost would be to legalize prostitution. You would have more jobs, more taxable income and you would see massive decreases in sex crimes!
@jcdark and the thing is, most people only take hard drugs for the thrill, there is no thrill in taking something that you can buy off a shelf in Walmart.
I always hate it when I hear someone making a great case for legalizing drugs, and then they finish it with "so we can regulate and tax the fuck out of it". You miss the point.
Why can't we just treat cannabis like alcohol?? Make it legal to buy it at the age of 18 (because 21 is fucking stupid), make it illegal to drive while under the influence, etc. - DONE.
It's OBVIOUS that it works - look at the netherlands. Cannabis, shrooms, herbal xtc, etc. have been legal there for years now and they're doing just fine over there.
The thing is nobody has addressed the halucinogenic effect of marajuana. This effect is NOT in alcohol or tabacco. Now if you can't address this argument, then legalizing heroine, crack, cocaine, and LSD should also be legalized. Every argument put up here in this video, also applies to these other drugs. There is no attempt to understand the differences of these drugs. I have yet to hear a "compelling argument" not to legalize all drugs. Why stop at marajuana?????? Come on, let's hear why...
why shouldnt things like LSD, cocaine, and heroine be legal? because its dangerous, if you have that kind of attitude you wont do anything.
it is not yours or the governments place to tell other people what they can or cannot consume. do you want to micromanage everyones personal lives?
and if someone does use these drugs and does something like driving, the person should be arrested for driving under the influence of these drugs not simply for being under the influence.
@AceofDiamonds0 Ok, then with your logic why shouldn't we be allowed to have higher grade weapons, like automatic machine guns, grenades, automatic grenade launchers, tow missles, dragon missles, or even atom bombs. I can handle these things responsible and I don't want government micromanaging my affairs. Does your tune change here?
weapons are diffrent those can be used to kill others with, and that is all they are good for. however people do collect and use machine guns and grenades for recreational purposes. but the main point is those things are used to kill others.
how does a person smoking marijuana hurt other people.
Really, you're comparing drugs to rocket launchers and nuklear weapons? wtf dude... the reason those things are illegal is because you harm OTHERS with those things - not just yourself. What an idiotic analogy -.-
(and before you say something like "well, you could give [any drug] to others forcefully until they die of an overdose!" or something stupid like that, the same goes for alcohol too. Yet it's still legal, weird huh?)
@charlesfloyb why shouldn't you be allowed to, assuming you can afford the insurance on it? Actually I'm more comfortable with those things being legal than drugs because there are actually at least some legitimate uses for them.
I don't smoke pot anymore just because I don't like the way it makes me feel now. I like alcohol better. But I used to smoke every day when I was younger. I totally agree it should be legalized. Hell I was a fucken stoner for several years and I turned out great. :)
the reason pot is illegal and alcohol is legal, is simple, users are in the minority.
It is the same reason, just as an example, most guns are legal, but full auto guns are (basically) illegal. Technically you -can- own them, if you like paying $30k for a gun and $500 a year just for the privilege of owning it legally.
Switchblades are another great one. Instant felony, when was the last time somebody got killed with a switchblade? That one actually came from old movies, but I digress.
I mentioned The Single Convention on Narcotic Substances earlier, this treaty and its follow up treaties actually does not allow for any country to legalize any of the substances that are scheduled under the treaty.
Legalization can only occur by either violating the treaty, or by an exemption. Article 36: "1. (a) Subject to its constitutional limitations...". Unless we either violate the treaty or amend our Constitution, we tied our hands on this issue a generation ago.
Decriminalization is the best we can do under the current treaty and constitutional status, which is what other countries have done.
The single Convention mandates that there MUST be a penalty for possession of scheduled substances, it does not say what that must be, with Decrim it becomes a civil offense like a ticket.
Decriminalization overlooks the elephant in the room: criminal distribution and the black market, it is woefully inadequate but as good as we can do.
@marduc42 One more thing, do you agree that if marijuana was abused, do you think it would cause hallucinations or at least put a person in a state of which they can't operate a vehicle? If you say yes then it worries me like hell, however i don't care if it's legalized but if that's true then with out a doubt i know people are gonna abuse it and i know it's gonna have negative impacts. Are world is not made out of marshmallows and bunnies.
@modtyrant driving impaired is driving impaired. People need to be responsible for their actions while impaired, this holds true for alcohol and any other drug. If someone puts the public at risk through their usage, then they face the consequences.
You make it out like driving stoned and negative impacts will be new, it already occurs frequently. This is a constant, not a new variable to plug into the equation - especially in light of a statistically insignificant increase in usage rates..
@marduc42 Driving under the INFLUENCE OF ANY DRUG that prevents you from operating a vehicle properly is bad, you can't control every single irresponsible person in the world. Your like glorifying the drug and never talk about the cons. It looks like you only consider the pros an that's it. I agree it's nothing new, but with ease of access it will make it far easier for ABUSIVE people to get a hold of it. I would be okay with it if we had better laws for the after math, but we don't right now.
@modtyrant I just said driving impaired is driving impaired, regardless of what drug causes this - and I agree wholeheartedly it is bad. you are swinging away at one giant straw man now, have fun.
btw.. there are no obstacles for abusive people to get their hands on drugs currently. If someone broke the law how is it that we do not allow them to use in the current UNCONTROLLED environment??
@marduc42 No because my original point is that abusive people are going to abuse the drugs no matter what because i guess the law system is too weak right now. I don't know the exact reason they get away with it, but they do time and time again, which i STRESS was my original point (Not a straw man). Every thing else is what i was trying to say, we need to be able to control the uncontrolled before we legalize another drug that has a POSSIBILITY of flopping.
@marduc42 Your not taking the consideration that we need to prepare and plan before we legalize a drug and ship it out to the public. That is not a Straw Man Fallacy because it is my MAIN POINT the foundation of what i,am trying to get across is that you cannot blindly rush into a drug into the free market with out proper planning to prevent future after maths. You have to make a fortress before you start a war (Figure of speech, don't take it out of context).
@modtyrant This prepare and plan thing is a new argument from you, and is totally unrelated to the aforementioned straw men you went after - which I have specifically pointed out to you. you are now thrashing a straw man regarding what I argued your straw men were.
and yet another straw man, I never said anything about blindly rushing into anything and not having a plan.
You are quite adept at going after arguments/positions that I did not make, and this entire straw man creation process.
@marduc42 No, your the one that want's marijuana legalized (Your original position), right? I am refuting that it should not be legalized YET and was giving examples as to how currently legalized things cause LOTS of problems and that if you legalized marijuana now, it would cause even more problems before planning in advanced (The whole freaking point of my points). You come across like it would be perfectly fine to legalize it now. If you disagree your the one making the straw man.
@modtyrant Is it "perfectly fine" that alcohol is currently legal? Is it perfectly fine that firearms are available to civilians? Is any law that grants a freedom that requires responsibility "perfectly fine?" I don't consider a lack of perfection a reasonable argument against granting a freedom when comparable freedoms already exist and are enjoyed by the population without oppression from law enforcement unless they do something wrong.
@GrapplingIgnorance Holy crap i did not say that it should be banned forever (I might exaggerate) . I agree that it should be legalized when we are READY in terms of over all safety (Not just a single population), i do not just want it getting thrown out there. Again no, the planning in advanced will never be perfect, however we should do what ever we can freaking do to the very limits of are current abilities, don't half ass it so to speak (Safety that is).
@GrapplingIgnorance When alcohol and cigarettes were first released they halved assed it (No warning labels on cigarettes etc). If they plan on legalizing marijuana, they need not make the same mistake again which is another thing I'm worried about.
"Your like glorifying the drug and never talk about the cons. It looks like you only consider the pros an that's it." - you said this.
QUOTE ME DOING THIS PLEASE.
This one out of your chain of straw men should be very simple for you to defend, just copy and paste a quote showing me doing this.. if you cannot then it is most assuredly a straw man.
@marduc42 I said "looks like" and was over exaggerating (It's a statement not a refutation). A straw man is creating the illusion of refuting the original position with out actually doing so, when i DID refute your original position (Legalizing marijuana right?). I explained why you made a straw man, but you have never once explained how i have made any, you are just throwing it out their to avoid directly refuting some of my points, which is similar to a straw man and obnoxious.
@tubetib while I agree, the loophole is that there are not laws (specifically in the U.S) against actually consuming the drugs, so "technically" they are not forbidding you from putting it in your body. The drug laws that are in place target possession, not consumption - the consumption part of the equation is conveniently rendered moot as a result.
@tubetib It however goes beyond that if you're somewhere in the United States. Unless your parents and yourself took all the methods to avoid exposure to added elements and avoided virtually all the food supply which has added chemicals in it, then you are getting more into your system than you expect probably.
@InferiorThanYou Yes, I admit that these days it is pretty hard to know well what we are eating. The big corporations are taking care of us and they seem to have a lot to hide.
I think what one should do is legallize all harmful substances but have harsher punishment for putting other people at risk while under the influence. One D.U.I. (The influence of whatever substance you are on) should result in years of jailtime. Allow some leeway with substance use, but make sure that the general public is protected from the users. :)
the problem is that the companies that sell beer and cigarettes are blocking this product that would be in competition with them. Don't think that somebody will let acquirable money to others. getting money is always the first goal at the detriment of common sense
just saying i agree.i never smoked (pot or tobacco),but it doesn't make any sense for this substance to be illegal,while alcohol and tobacco are legal.
This guy is missing one important factor in his video that he didn't address. The prison industrial complex and is a monster we have been funding with our taxes and feeding our youth. Extended sentences for minor crimes feeds the companies large sums of tax payer money. For every prisoner incarcerated equals more taxpayer cash in their pockets. Also cheap labor for private corporations.
@GrapplingIgnorance although I'm not TheCaliCapitalist I can answer this one. UNICOR, CCA, GEO Group for example. Then there are numerous other companies that make profit off prisoners like telecommunication companies charging absolutely exorbitant rates for phone calls, prison commissaries where all items are at least double the retail price while an inmate can make somewhere between $0.16 to $1.20 (almost unheard of) an hour, leaving families of these inmates out of pocket for incidentals.
@GrapplingIgnorance I don't know about private corporations, but I heard that ALEC is enlisting prisoners for cheap labor. I wish I can find my source...
@GrapplingIgnorance ALEC (American Legislative Exchange Council) is making prisoners do the jobs of public employees, for either no pay, or 20 cents an hour.
Last year California had Prop 19 to legalize marijuana. The polls showed the bill was going to easily pass. Unfortunately when it came to election day, all of the pot heads were to stoned to bother to show up to vote, so it was defeated with only 46.5% yes.
Something people learn in rehab programs is alcohol is a solvent and is also, without exception, the single most destructive substance people consume. It deteriorates and destroys every thing from one's head to one's toes. I don't partake of either, but the criminalization and demonization of weed is completely and totally irrational and inconsistent in a society that embraces and celebrates the consumption of beer, liquor, wine, et the way America does. It makes no sense at all.
How about this for a compelling argument? If cannabis were legal then the people who profit from it would have to pay taxes on that income. It would cut opportunities for money laundering to the detriment of some of the biggest banking institutions in the world. It would negatively impact the profitability of private prisons and the careers of highly paid law enforcement officials. I could go on but surely that convinces you of the evils of legalization?
Speaking as a fellow non-pothead, I have to agree 100%.
Anyone who looks into the history of the prohibition on marijuana will learn that the motivations for this prohibition were nothing but BS pandering to corporate interests from the get-go.
@GrapplingIgnorance Want to know why politicians won't legalise this? Because imagine, trying to convince an average person legalising a drug will be a good thing.
I support the legalisation, but the average person is not as smart. Just look in Australia with the Carbon Tax. It's a tax on big polluters(companies), it will help our climate, yet everyone seems to hate it. Yeh...
Leagalize, tax it, and use some of those taxes to fund drug rehab. The most effective way to reduce the use of something is through long term demonization rather than making it illegal. Smoking has dropped from a rate of ~75% to ~25% in the last 50 years. It was never made illegal. We need to address the desire to use drugs, not the drugs themselves. Prohibition didn't work because it didn't address the demand for alcohol, only the substance.
I never have and never intend to smoke marijuana, either...but I'm for legalizing it, too. I think it is just ridiculous when people think you have to engage in something yourself to be for legalizing it.
There are so many issues like this, where there is an obvious, empirically demonstrable overwhelming benefit of a certain policy (although there may be some negative impact as well) and this is completely ignored because people view the world through "stories". Saying that I guess one should re-evaluated one's own POV regularly.
Whenever talking about this, all I EVER hear are the same tired excuses:
"Then our teens would get high instead of drunk!" -"There's enough problems with alcoholists!", or "It's illegal for a reason"
When not only could it be distributed via pharmacies with the same kind of "don't sell to someone already wasted"-policy as alcohol currently is, but also every single country that has legalized saw a slight increase, but it evens out to the same increase% as other countries during that timeframe.
@Daealis "a slight increase" It would be interesting to see those stats. How is this estimated? I mean it makes sense that if something is illegal then you'll always get lower statistics of use due to underreporting. Same goes for abortion, homosexuality, etc. So if you have a 10% increase it would be very difficult to estimate whether or not those are new users, or just better reporting.
"How is this estimated? I mean it makes sense that if something is illegal then you'll always get lower statistics of use due to underreporting. Same goes for abortion..."
- i take your argument and raise you the ACTUAL abortion statistics:
Article: 'Legal or Not, Abortion Rates Compare'
Extract: "A comprehensive global study of abortion has concluded that abortion rates are similar in countries where it is legal and those where it is not"
@types10000 Thx, great read although this has been widely known I guess. Also from the article: “These numbers are not definitive and very susceptible to interpretation according to the agenda of the people who are organizing the data,” said Randall K. O’Bannon, director of education and research at the National Right to Life Educational Trust Fund in Washington."
When I was in the army my battalion commander freaked out that I was smoking tobacco from a hookah pipe in a bar in the Middle East because it looked like I was smoking pot.
Then he made me join him and the rest of the officers in the bar where they had brought their own beer bong and were making a big mess of the place. We Americans are so backwards.
Tax the farmer to grow it . Then charge a sales tax when he sells it to Phillip Morris.Then put a federal stamp tax on it. Then a state sin tax on it . Then a federal state & county sales tax on it. Sell it in liquor stores only. Package it like cigs. & if your caught with the seal broke on package in your vehicle give you an open container ticket.
I'm not a US citizen, but in the US last summer I was able to view your Senate and House from the gallery.
In just about 4 hours of watching your politicians. I saw perfectly good ideas proposed by one side get rejected and blocked by the other side, simply because they were the oppositions ideas.
We get a similar thing here in the UK.
It's quite tragic really, that we can't do what's best for the country as a whole, because of our career politicians and ridiculous party based divisions
PraiseTheMetal591 6 days ago
@PraiseTheMetal591 Bingo.
GrapplingIgnorance 6 days ago
concordance has just done a great vid
jjcrazi 1 month ago
I love da ganja. Helps me sleep, relieves minor health symptoms, and helps me focus on school work. Im blazed right now.
UndeadClown95 2 months ago
making people useful should not be a goal of society; making society useful should be a goal of people!
pastafarianprophet 3 months ago
Funny how it's always the people that unconditionally support "free markets" and "limiting the reach of government power" that want government to use its power to control people on something so trivial-- something that represents a healthy market, no less.
pastafarianprophet 3 months ago
*slow clap* Well man, you summed that up about perfectly. I like how you don't actually *use* it either, and didn't try to be unrealistic with how much it'd help, just a good solid step in the right direction, like you said.
SecretSm0ke 5 months ago
@SecretSm0ke A lot of people don't understand why I'd be so concerned for others to have the right to do something I chose not to do. I've found that strange for as long as I can remember. Some don't understand why I consider bans on alcohol or homosexuality ridiculous even though I'm not a drinker, or a homosexual. They freedom to consume what you want and have consensual sex with who you want are simply victimless, and thereby are no one's right to condemn in my opinion.
GrapplingIgnorance 5 months ago
I am in what I suspect is the minority for supporting the legalization of marijuana - for the reasons you outline - but am a harsh critic of its actual use.
Indeed, I suspect that the legalization arguments would do somewhat better if not for the moronic potheads who actually make claims like marijuana cures cancer.
1RadicalOne 5 months ago
ILoM... make it happen!
OMGWTFITZATREX 6 months ago
Intellectuals for the legalization of marijuana!!!!!!
OMGWTFITZATREX 6 months ago
I think we should legalise it. Though I have to say that there are dangers to taking it.
gulbirk 6 months ago
I like your last point. I agree legalizing pot would improve the country, but it disgusts me when people willingly break the law by using illegal substances while expecting the government to honor their voices and legalize it.
oOpumpkinheadOo 6 months ago
@oOpumpkinheadOo you hate civil disobedience?
stupidtrooper501 5 months ago
@stupidtrooper501 i hate making salads
oOpumpkinheadOo 5 months ago
@oOpumpkinheadOo Yeah, but there's a problem there too. Drugs are addicting yet we lock them up instead of trying to rehabilitate them. When someone's addicted to alcohol or cigarettes, we have great sympathy with them and try to help them over it. Crack and heroine are FAR more addictive, so they should command greater sympathy for rehab. Not doing so makes as much sense as comforting a kid over his dead brother but then condemning a kid who lost their whole family.
dragonhearted375 5 months ago
During alcohol prohibition, gangs used alcohol as business. With that also has to come ways to bribe police/politicians, kill other gang members, and eliminate police that want to stop the gang in question.
Now let's compare that to pot...you know, legalizing marijuana would help with minimizing crime. It wouldn't do much but hey, it's better than nothing.
DarkZerkerX 6 months ago
A very good argument. I lost my faith in the government being able to do anything right a long time ago. I guess that's why I consider myself to be a libertarian because I want our mostly ineffectual federal government to stop telling states and people how to live their lives. Also, keep in mind that most of the people that have been elected to office were the sorts of people that would have been the hall monitors in your school - brown nosing jerks.
Mirkwoods 6 months ago
@Mirkwoods That's a concept to be considered, but how far can we take it? Do you want your state government telling you how to live your life based on what most people in your state think? Do you want your local government telling you how to live your life based on what they they, or most people in your city think? The concept has to be thought all the way through- though obviously, no system of government is without significant flaws.
GrapplingIgnorance 6 months ago
@GrapplingIgnorance Of course, I cannot argue with that and whenever possible, I prefer to let people make their own choices and the government should be kept out of as much as possibly they can be. On the other hand, that system is anarchy and doesn't really work either so you have to have the government run a certain number of things but keeping government as small as possible on every level is best.
Mirkwoods 6 months ago
Let me fuckin decide about what I put in MY body... As long as I dont harm anyone, who the fu.. cares? Reasons for illegality of marihuana is, I believe, is the cotton/paperpulp/medicinal industries(these are the industry that will suffer from legalisation) that would have an amounting loss of profit. No medicinal records supports the U.S mentality of making it a "class A" drug(in same category as heroin, crack, cocaine)
soldat41ghr 6 months ago
I agree completely with you on this. How do you feel about legalising other drugs?
ShakeySurgeon 6 months ago
@ShakeySurgeon I tend to be in favor of legalizing harder and harder drugs as we progress, but I think society would adjust best if this was done gradually rather than going from all of them being illegal to all of them being illegal at once.
GrapplingIgnorance 6 months ago
I have never smoked weed and I STILL think it's illegality is ridiculous...
kilroy227 6 months ago
I hate to make Alex Jones type noises, but I find it plausible that the corporate controled gov't desperately wants to maintain & grow all of the privately controlled prison space that they can get. That way, they can dump all of the pot smokers unceremoniously onto the streets, to suddenly make room for all of the political dissidents that they're creating with their economic warfare. A crazy idea, but the most logical one that I can think of as an excuse to continue a senseless prohibition.
DonQuixotedeKaw 6 months ago in playlist A-4-V
@Irishlumberjack Also, the damage to lungs and liver are long term effects for repeat use. They take time to build up. Chemical changes though may be more drastic, and because it is the brain itself we are talking about, may occur long before any lung damage would.
Also, once again, my comments aren't about justifying a prohibition, it is about intellectual integrity of the discussion itself. You can't ignore aspects and still hope to be taken seriously.
dragonmatt5 6 months ago
@Irishlumberjack There comes a point though where a products inherent danger is prevented by laws. And you still haven't even addressed the complaints at all, just sidestepped with that strawman. Also, the aspect of bringing up and discussing the effects shows a more holistic approach and understanding that in turn demonstrates a more rational argument for it. I have seen many causes wash over the negatives just to try to get what they want. In the process, they abandon intellectual credibility.
dragonmatt5 6 months ago
People with too strong opinions should NEVER be in power. If a person is not dynamic enough, they might exclude counter evidence as they almost view it as a conspiracy. Of course, its very common in the political arena to have different opinions, and these opinions are often "respected". In my opinion, only the opinions and strategies that can be confirmed, through systemanalysis or other method, to be "sustainable", can be labeled as right.
DenStoreLaffen 6 months ago
but see, the problem is, if the people you control are just sitting on their couches all day killing their brain cells, they're not very useful to you are they?
DeathnoteBB 6 months ago
@DeathnoteBB Is it useful for them to sit at home on their couches drinking beer all day?
GrapplingIgnorance 6 months ago 17
@GrapplingIgnorance Well they're more active at least. And it sure helps the money flow when you need to take someone to the hospital after a domestic "accident" or a shitload of more beer. Now if they only allowed marijuana to be smoked in certain buildings where you could buy it and food, THAT would get a lot of profit. But still, think about it, prop 19 wasn't passed, probably because everyone was getting high in their houses. If alcohol was illegal instead (continued)
DeathnoteBB 6 months ago
@GrapplingIgnorance and prop 19 was for the legalization of beer, I'm pretty sure a lot more people who drink would have gone the the amount of people who smoke (that I'm guessing) went.
DeathnoteBB 6 months ago
@DeathnoteBB The idea that not enough people voted for prop 19 is strictly a result of people that wanted marijuana legal were all sitting at home smoking pot is an incredibly intellectually immature position to take. The voter turn out for the last federal elections in 2010 was 37.8%. Do you think that's because the rest of the country was at home smoking pot or because it was disenchanted with it's government and apathetic about the possibility of impending change being real?
GrapplingIgnorance 6 months ago
@GrapplingIgnorance Oh yeah, I remembered something. You know how some pharmacies sell medical marijuana over the counter? Some people I know have thought that because the medical community can legally sell it, it'll lose value if it's just sold legally, thus getting rid of a lot of profit for them. I could be wrong on terms there, but still, it could be because they'd get less money because you wouldn't need to have a medical condition to buy it.
DeathnoteBB 6 months ago
@DeathnoteBB The medicinal argument there really makes no sense to me. Right now it 's available in some places as a prescribed form of medical treatment. It's value as a treatment would not diminish just because its legal. Aspirin is a legal over the counter medicine that doctors can recommend to patients. The pharmacy doesn't have to make money off of it. Plenty of over the counter products and home remedies are perfectly legal, benefiting economic flow in their own ways.
GrapplingIgnorance 6 months ago
@DeathnoteBB
Weed doesn't kill brain cells. The idea that it does was the result of a rigged experiment from a long time ago that has been completely disproven.
EpicFailureFilms 6 months ago
@EpicFailureFilms Which one was that? And what disproved it?
DeathnoteBB 6 months ago
@DeathnoteBB people do not control other people. if you are talking about the employer employee relationship, then if you do have staff or workers sitting on their ass all day smoking weed, then the employer will fire them and hire someone who wont sit on their ass all day.
even if marijuana is legal not everyone will smoke it. example: not everyone drinks or smokes.
AceofDiamonds0 6 months ago
@AceofDiamonds0 I mean the government. They won't be able to make anyone do anything if everyone's just sitting around getting high.
DeathnoteBB 6 months ago
@DeathnoteBB
which goes to my second point. not everyone will be stoned off their ass 100% of the time.
people smoke cigarettes and drink alcohol but they dont let it affect their work. some people will let weed take over their lives,like some people let alcohol ruin their lives, but that is the individuals problem to work through.
AceofDiamonds0 6 months ago
@AceofDiamonds0 On that note, aren't there already people who let illegal substances take over their lives? I don't see any evidence to suggest that making something illegal stops people from using and abusing it. I maintain that education is still the best means of solving that.
GrapplingIgnorance 6 months ago
I say de-criminalize it, but there are genuine risks to having someone stoned out of their mind operating heavy machinery or something like that. So, I don't know how well this will all go over, but it's bullshit that it's being used to jail people and treat them like felons. It has genuine medical uses, so why label it schedule 5? At least make it available via prescription and lower the drug schedule. There are lots of reasons to decriminalize MJ.
brmadman4455 6 months ago
@brmadman4455 There are genuine risks to people operating heavy machinery etc. when they're drunk too. Alcohol is still legal. Just because a substance is legal doesn't mean that we can't regulate its use to require it be used responsibly.
GrapplingIgnorance 6 months ago 17
@GrapplingIgnorance I often thought about this, and since THC sits in your system so long I just can't picture companies making correct judgements regarding somebody's sobriety. Believe me, I'm all for legalizing it, but because of the inherent differences in the bodies uptake of THC and alcohol, I think there are some major challenges for the workforce. Insurance companies will up their rates. I think, the best way is by making it available on by prescription.
brmadman4455 6 months ago
@GrapplingIgnorance It's also been proven that driving under the influence of alcohol is FAR more dangerous than driving under the influence of marijuana.
s7eeez 6 months ago
Sorry, I meant THC is a schedule 1 drug, right up there with Xtacy, heroine and the baddest of the baddies.
brmadman4455 6 months ago
Don you understand that "It will kill fewer people than cigarettes!" could apply to just about anything? I mean seriously, by that logic cocaine could be legalized...and I seem to remember you not being very fond of drug dealers in other videos.
UpwardBound5656 6 months ago
@UpwardBound5656 There wouldn't be drug dealers if it was legal.
Houshalter 6 months ago
@Houshalter If it was legal it wouldn't be for everyone (Like alcohol isn't legal for individuals under 21 in the USA.) Drug dealers would still deal other drugs which we cannot afford to legalize (like meth.)
UpwardBound5656 6 months ago
Legalizing Cannabis would be the absolute worst thing we can do.
tfavors28 6 months ago
@tfavors28 [citation needed]
Houshalter 6 months ago
@Houshalter For a citation I sight common wisdom. Ingesting a product that kills brain cells abundantly = bad thingie.
tfavors28 6 months ago
@tfavors28 it doesn't kill brain cells so far as I know.
Houshalter 6 months ago
@Houshalter Cannibis is a great thing with hundreds of uses. Seriously, even the declaration was written on paper made from cannibis, but at the end of the day it is harmful. The problem is that so few people know that because the great lie today is "there is nothing wrong with cannibis" and no one really looks into it because they want a reason to smoke it.
tfavors28 6 months ago
I advocate for legalization for these reasons... (1) Sending college kids to prison for a harmless act is not the American Way. What if your kid was jailed for a a small amount? (2) the war agains drugs has failed and has costed us billions. If someone wants pot, there gonna get it, by legal means or otherwise... (3) if tobacco and alcohol can kill millions and still be available, why not a considerably harmless plant? (4) It's not a gateway drug like cigarettes and booze are...parents are the
laxpaint 6 months ago
America, do yourself a favor and elect Ron Paul in 2012.
ThinkerResearcher 6 months ago
@Irishlumberjack The classification of the drug determines how it affects the person in question and therefore would be of the most importance. If the drug's type description reads as "permanent chemical changes within the brain", it suddenly takes on a far more serious aspect then temporarily induced stupors and after long term accumulative physical damage. If it permanently alters the brain's chemistry, as hallucinogens are prone to do, it would be important in the case for or against it.
dragonmatt5 6 months ago
Yes, yes, and FUCKING YES.
Nagneto 6 months ago
If had the choice of going down to Wal-Mart and getting some for like 5 bucks, rather than going downtown, risk getting mugged or murdered by some gangbanger, and pay 500 for some, which market do you think is gonna succeed? Weed doesn't do anything for me except make me want to sleep. It's fucking harmless, more so than fucking booze. This shouldn't be illegal, but like others have said, the government and their contractors make money off incarcerating the innocent.
Nagneto 6 months ago
Pot is classified as a hallucinogen. Though the physical aspects are far less severe then cigarettes and alcohol, the alteration to the mental state may have even longer lasting effects and when comparing a hallucinogen to a depressant drug, it is shaky and could be seen as apples to oranges.
Not saying we shouldn't legalize, but perhaps a more in-depth video going over any longer term effects based on it being a hallucinogen and how that sort of drug is treated versus depressants.
dragonmatt5 6 months ago
The prison system is big business, and any elected official who champions this issue would be committing political suicide.
krazyurbanheadhunter 6 months ago
@krazyurbanheadhunter "The prison system is big business, and any elected official who champions this issue would be committing political suicide." So when I hear Americans boasting that it is a Government for the Peopl of the People, then its BS? It should be "for the Corporations of the corporations"? I shudder to think of a system that deliberately tries to keep people in jail to make cheap military helmets, wash cop cars and create a service inductry. Is this my paranoia or reallly true?
NoFaithNoPain 6 months ago
@NoFaithNoPain That is the way it works, I’m not being pessimistic when I say that. A business operates to make money; they will do everything within their influence to increase the demand for their product/service. Politicians are people like everybody else, they have their career to think about, the only way to gain/hold a position in public office, is to put your personal political career first. This shouldn’t be news to anybody; things in a free market democracy have always worked that way.
krazyurbanheadhunter 6 months ago
I don't think pot is any better than cigarettes, but I don't think cigarettes should be legal. My childhood was ruined by both my parents' smoking and pot smoking habits. Honestly, this is a hard issue... It's not good to waste tax money fighting this - but, non-medically, people just shouldn't smoke pot. It makes you stupid and harms your lungs, let alone the other effects it might have. When it comes to people's freedom to hurt themselves and tax money, things get really messy.
ArcasDevlin 6 months ago
@ArcasDevlin see theres no sense in making cigarettes or alcohol illegal either because then as he stated it would simply be sold illegally and put more people in prison for stupid reasons while people who are commiting actual crimes are getting off scott free, i agree people shouldn't smoke pot but that isn't going to happen any time soon but if they are going to smoke it there is no sense in imprisoning them for it
KrazyEngima 6 months ago
@KrazyEngima Smoking shouldn't be illegal only for the reasons pot should be legal... Honestly, my entire opinion on this is too long for a youtube comment. Like I said in my original post, it's messy.
ArcasDevlin 6 months ago
@ArcasDevlin i never said they were i simply said that if they were to be made illegal like pot the same things would happen that happen with pot
KrazyEngima 6 months ago
this video reminded me of sagan. i miss carl.
KickYouInTheThroat 6 months ago
It's partly about the old age of politicians and voters. Many are too afraid to support legalization of a substance which the elderly (i.e. keen voters) perceive as an irresponsible party drug. Elderly people tend to be rigid and trapped in the old days, unwilling to accept the superior modern knowledge over their own. This would involve a crushing blow to the vane human ego as they'd have to tear down decades of wrong lore. Thus, they think their old ways are w/o flaw. It's complicated.
MrStillmans 6 months ago
no chance - or at least not just like that. any government that legalised it would loose the next election. ~far too many people will say "You killed my child because he took Cannabis after you legalised it" and the whole thing will be reversed and the Politition responsible never elected again. In the UK Canabis was downgraded to class C and then the government lost its nerve and put it back to class B against all its scientific and political advice. The Public is stupid
NoFaithNoPain 6 months ago
@NoFaithNoPain But, the silly thing is that weed can't kill you, no amount can, if they said that, the public is stupid and deserves to be thrown into a bar to work as cow milkers.
TheCalebthebest 6 months ago
@TheCalebthebest The argument is, their ki got depressed after yeas on abuse from a young age and threw himself under a train, or he then became a heroin user and O/D'd and its YOUR fault for making this evil drug legal you bastard blah blah blah and people fall for it because the TV stations are so damned biased and the politician looses his career.
NoFaithNoPain 6 months ago
My problem with marijuana and smoking is that they cause harm, not only to those using the drugs, but to the environment and those around them. It's unfair and unjust that a perfectly kind person who has taken care of their body for their entire life would have to die because of second-hand smoke.
AwesomeRants 6 months ago
@AwesomeRants Then just regulate marijuana smoking the same way they are regulating the smoking of tobacco and alcohol. Disallow it in public areas and build smoking areas in restaurants and bars. Disallow driving while under the influence and put up an age limit. If people start switching from alcohol to pot as a recreational drug then the amount of deaths per year will be drastically reduced, that includes car accidents and substance abuse related deaths.
SeriousPlastiek 6 months ago
@AwesomeRants then don't be around smokers.
Houshalter 6 months ago
@Houshalter Couldn't have read a more idiotic reply. Did you consider little kids? Did you consider the a-holes who stand in front of public places and smoke cigarettes now? If pot becomes legal, that might happen with it too. Smokers can't be avoided, because most of them are selfish about their habit and they don't care who they hurt.
ArcasDevlin 6 months ago
@ArcasDevlin thats true with tobacco to, and it's not illegal.
Houshalter 6 months ago
@Houshalter Just because one stupid thing is allowed, that doesn't make another stupid thing any better. I was replying to your comment to someone else, telling them to just avoid smokers... I was merely informing you that it's not plausible.
ArcasDevlin 6 months ago
@ArcasDevlin you can avoid places that allow smoking though. No one is forcing you to stand next to them. As for children, are you saying smokers shouldn't be allowed to have kids?
Houshalter 6 months ago
@Houshalter So I should avoid grocery stores, crosswalks, and public parks because people who smoke should have the right to harm me with their bad habit, more than I have the right to fresh air? And as for children, smoking around your kids hurts them more than slapping them around, and you wouldn't do that... would you? I think there are a few parents who are very careful around their children; they always smoke outside, not near their kids, never smoked during pregnancy... but those are rare.
ArcasDevlin 6 months ago
@ArcasDevlin yes, you have a choice to go to places that allow smoking or not. And if you ban smokers from having kids, you would also have to set the same standard for people that are at risk for spreading genetic diseases, people that can't afford adequate insurance for them, etc.
Houshalter 6 months ago
@Houshalter Yes, I could stay in my house, but that's about it. I've never seen a grocery store that bans smoking outside its doors. Maybe they exist, but I haven't seen one. Hell, I saw someone smoking in front of the doors to the hospital the other day. When I told the receptionist, all she said she could do was ask him to leave. As for kids, I didn't say that they were "disallowed". I said the smoking around them is abusive and it's not comparable to someone who has a genetic predisposition.
ArcasDevlin 6 months ago
@Houshalter Especially since everyone has a predisposition toward some genetic problems. Also, smoking is a choice - and a stupid choice at that. "I was born a smoker" doesn't work. You want kids? Quit smoking. Also, at least in my state, (but I think in most,) pregnant women and children can get state-sponsored insurance, and even if they don't, it's illegal for parents to neglect the health of their children. Insurance just means the parents don't have to pay for visits.
ArcasDevlin 6 months ago
@Houshalter But this argument seems so ridiculous, (Smokers have the right to harm you more than you have the right to fresh air,) that it almost feels like I'm arguing with a troll. So you'll have to excuse me if I don't reply again.
And BTW, as far as people smoking in bars and other recreational indoor places like that, at least more adult places, or in certain restaurants, I am fine with that, because I can avoid those places without avoiding my most conventional needs.
ArcasDevlin 6 months ago
@ArcasDevlin "Smokers have the right to harm you more than you have the right to fresh air". What a straw man. You don't have a "right" to fresh air, you have a right to do whatever the fuck you want with your self or your property as long as it doesn't hurt others. If more people than just you cared enough, there would be a demand for grocery stores that didn't allow smoking, but most people don't care, and you shouldn't get to legislate your personal preferences on to the rest of society.
Houshalter 6 months ago
@Houshalter What straw man? I'm attacking this idea that smokers should be allowed to smoke in public places. If your point is something else, you'll need to clarify that.
"as long as it doesn't hurt others" It does hurt others. That's the point. I used to have a neighbor who smoked right outside the door to my apartment, because hers was there as well. Tell me how to avoid that.
*A lot* of people care but not enough to ban together... and in fact, the rules are changing - slowly.
ArcasDevlin 6 months ago
@ArcasDevlin you are missing the point. Public places does not include private property, like grocery stores or appartments. If those places want to ban smoking they are welcome to, and you are welcome not to go there if you don't want to. You can't compare smoking on your own property to killing people or drinking and driving. It's absurd.
Houshalter 6 months ago
@Houshalter
Legislate my personal preferences? If killing was legal, would you not complain about that? Why not take a look at history and think of what would happen if no one fought for their minority views, for what was, (as objective as morals can be,) objectively right? Yes, this is a moral issue, because it harms other people. It's that simple. If you drink and drive, you get arrested, because your bad habit should not harm people.
ArcasDevlin 6 months ago
@Houshalter I want to protect people, including myself, my friends and innocent children who can do nothing about it. What is more important to you? The health of innocent people or the right to others to do their habit, that harms both them and everyone around them, nearly anywhere and around anyone they feel like?
ArcasDevlin 6 months ago
Authority intoxicates, and makes mere sots of magistrates.
The fumes of it invade the brain, and make men giddy, proud and vain!
By this the fool commands the wise, the noble with the base complies.
The sot assumes the rule of wit, and cowards make the base submit.
-- Butler
BigFatHeretic 6 months ago
The threat of having people think for themselves is too high. For the shadow masters it is better to keep most people stupid and set in their ways of thinking or in jail.
Pot opens minds, the system doesn't want that.
EliteDoomer 6 months ago
is it just me...or does grapplingignorance sound alot like thetruepooka?
mnewf2002 6 months ago
There isn't enough ability for citizen involvement. I send emails to my representatives regularly and all I get is a form letter in return. Both parties sux so voting is pointless. We need to put voting on the web and vote more often. For example, we should vote right now to stay or leave in the wars we have.
ndyt 6 months ago
Let's legalize (or at least decriminalize) all hard drugs along with it. And another HUGE boost would be to legalize prostitution. You would have more jobs, more taxable income and you would see massive decreases in sex crimes!
jcdark 6 months ago
@jcdark YEAH! SOUNDS GREAT LETS DO IT!
eddiedenied 6 months ago
@jcdark and the thing is, most people only take hard drugs for the thrill, there is no thrill in taking something that you can buy off a shelf in Walmart.
TheCalebthebest 6 months ago
I always hate it when I hear someone making a great case for legalizing drugs, and then they finish it with "so we can regulate and tax the fuck out of it". You miss the point.
Houshalter 6 months ago
Why can't we just treat cannabis like alcohol?? Make it legal to buy it at the age of 18 (because 21 is fucking stupid), make it illegal to drive while under the influence, etc. - DONE.
It's OBVIOUS that it works - look at the netherlands. Cannabis, shrooms, herbal xtc, etc. have been legal there for years now and they're doing just fine over there.
stoikr 6 months ago
The thing is nobody has addressed the halucinogenic effect of marajuana. This effect is NOT in alcohol or tabacco. Now if you can't address this argument, then legalizing heroine, crack, cocaine, and LSD should also be legalized. Every argument put up here in this video, also applies to these other drugs. There is no attempt to understand the differences of these drugs. I have yet to hear a "compelling argument" not to legalize all drugs. Why stop at marajuana?????? Come on, let's hear why...
charlesfloyb 6 months ago
@charlesfloyb
why shouldnt things like LSD, cocaine, and heroine be legal? because its dangerous, if you have that kind of attitude you wont do anything.
it is not yours or the governments place to tell other people what they can or cannot consume. do you want to micromanage everyones personal lives?
and if someone does use these drugs and does something like driving, the person should be arrested for driving under the influence of these drugs not simply for being under the influence.
AceofDiamonds0 6 months ago
@AceofDiamonds0 Ok, then with your logic why shouldn't we be allowed to have higher grade weapons, like automatic machine guns, grenades, automatic grenade launchers, tow missles, dragon missles, or even atom bombs. I can handle these things responsible and I don't want government micromanaging my affairs. Does your tune change here?
charlesfloyb 6 months ago
@charlesfloyb
weapons are diffrent those can be used to kill others with, and that is all they are good for. however people do collect and use machine guns and grenades for recreational purposes. but the main point is those things are used to kill others.
how does a person smoking marijuana hurt other people.
AceofDiamonds0 6 months ago
@charlesfloyb
Really, you're comparing drugs to rocket launchers and nuklear weapons? wtf dude... the reason those things are illegal is because you harm OTHERS with those things - not just yourself. What an idiotic analogy -.-
(and before you say something like "well, you could give [any drug] to others forcefully until they die of an overdose!" or something stupid like that, the same goes for alcohol too. Yet it's still legal, weird huh?)
stoikr 6 months ago
@charlesfloyb why shouldn't you be allowed to, assuming you can afford the insurance on it? Actually I'm more comfortable with those things being legal than drugs because there are actually at least some legitimate uses for them.
Houshalter 6 months ago
I don't smoke pot anymore just because I don't like the way it makes me feel now. I like alcohol better. But I used to smoke every day when I was younger. I totally agree it should be legalized. Hell I was a fucken stoner for several years and I turned out great. :)
6stringsbrainfingers 6 months ago
the reason pot is illegal and alcohol is legal, is simple, users are in the minority.
It is the same reason, just as an example, most guns are legal, but full auto guns are (basically) illegal. Technically you -can- own them, if you like paying $30k for a gun and $500 a year just for the privilege of owning it legally.
Switchblades are another great one. Instant felony, when was the last time somebody got killed with a switchblade? That one actually came from old movies, but I digress.
l337pwnage 6 months ago
Here in Denver there are now more "clinics" than StarBucks. You need to move ;o)
dalejr88 6 months ago
I mentioned The Single Convention on Narcotic Substances earlier, this treaty and its follow up treaties actually does not allow for any country to legalize any of the substances that are scheduled under the treaty.
Legalization can only occur by either violating the treaty, or by an exemption. Article 36: "1. (a) Subject to its constitutional limitations...". Unless we either violate the treaty or amend our Constitution, we tied our hands on this issue a generation ago.
marduc42 6 months ago
@marduc42 in continuation..
Decriminalization is the best we can do under the current treaty and constitutional status, which is what other countries have done.
The single Convention mandates that there MUST be a penalty for possession of scheduled substances, it does not say what that must be, with Decrim it becomes a civil offense like a ticket.
Decriminalization overlooks the elephant in the room: criminal distribution and the black market, it is woefully inadequate but as good as we can do.
marduc42 6 months ago
@marduc42 One more thing, do you agree that if marijuana was abused, do you think it would cause hallucinations or at least put a person in a state of which they can't operate a vehicle? If you say yes then it worries me like hell, however i don't care if it's legalized but if that's true then with out a doubt i know people are gonna abuse it and i know it's gonna have negative impacts. Are world is not made out of marshmallows and bunnies.
modtyrant 6 months ago
@modtyrant driving impaired is driving impaired. People need to be responsible for their actions while impaired, this holds true for alcohol and any other drug. If someone puts the public at risk through their usage, then they face the consequences.
You make it out like driving stoned and negative impacts will be new, it already occurs frequently. This is a constant, not a new variable to plug into the equation - especially in light of a statistically insignificant increase in usage rates..
marduc42 6 months ago
@marduc42 Driving under the INFLUENCE OF ANY DRUG that prevents you from operating a vehicle properly is bad, you can't control every single irresponsible person in the world. Your like glorifying the drug and never talk about the cons. It looks like you only consider the pros an that's it. I agree it's nothing new, but with ease of access it will make it far easier for ABUSIVE people to get a hold of it. I would be okay with it if we had better laws for the after math, but we don't right now.
modtyrant 6 months ago
@modtyrant I just said driving impaired is driving impaired, regardless of what drug causes this - and I agree wholeheartedly it is bad. you are swinging away at one giant straw man now, have fun.
btw.. there are no obstacles for abusive people to get their hands on drugs currently. If someone broke the law how is it that we do not allow them to use in the current UNCONTROLLED environment??
marduc42 6 months ago
@marduc42 No because my original point is that abusive people are going to abuse the drugs no matter what because i guess the law system is too weak right now. I don't know the exact reason they get away with it, but they do time and time again, which i STRESS was my original point (Not a straw man). Every thing else is what i was trying to say, we need to be able to control the uncontrolled before we legalize another drug that has a POSSIBILITY of flopping.
modtyrant 6 months ago
@modtyrant Your straw men:
"Driving under the INFLUENCE OF ANY DRUG that prevents you from operating a vehicle properly is bad"
I had already said as much, but you went ahead with your argument against a false position where I claimed was not bad. next:
"Your like glorifying the drug and never talk about the cons. It looks like you only consider the pros an that's it."
QUOTE ME DOING THIS PLEASE. I advocate a policy of harm reduction, which necessarily admits there is harm.
marduc42 6 months ago
@marduc42 Your not taking the consideration that we need to prepare and plan before we legalize a drug and ship it out to the public. That is not a Straw Man Fallacy because it is my MAIN POINT the foundation of what i,am trying to get across is that you cannot blindly rush into a drug into the free market with out proper planning to prevent future after maths. You have to make a fortress before you start a war (Figure of speech, don't take it out of context).
modtyrant 6 months ago
@modtyrant This prepare and plan thing is a new argument from you, and is totally unrelated to the aforementioned straw men you went after - which I have specifically pointed out to you. you are now thrashing a straw man regarding what I argued your straw men were.
and yet another straw man, I never said anything about blindly rushing into anything and not having a plan.
You are quite adept at going after arguments/positions that I did not make, and this entire straw man creation process.
marduc42 6 months ago
@marduc42 No, your the one that want's marijuana legalized (Your original position), right? I am refuting that it should not be legalized YET and was giving examples as to how currently legalized things cause LOTS of problems and that if you legalized marijuana now, it would cause even more problems before planning in advanced (The whole freaking point of my points). You come across like it would be perfectly fine to legalize it now. If you disagree your the one making the straw man.
modtyrant 6 months ago
@modtyrant Is it "perfectly fine" that alcohol is currently legal? Is it perfectly fine that firearms are available to civilians? Is any law that grants a freedom that requires responsibility "perfectly fine?" I don't consider a lack of perfection a reasonable argument against granting a freedom when comparable freedoms already exist and are enjoyed by the population without oppression from law enforcement unless they do something wrong.
GrapplingIgnorance 6 months ago
@GrapplingIgnorance Holy crap i did not say that it should be banned forever (I might exaggerate) . I agree that it should be legalized when we are READY in terms of over all safety (Not just a single population), i do not just want it getting thrown out there. Again no, the planning in advanced will never be perfect, however we should do what ever we can freaking do to the very limits of are current abilities, don't half ass it so to speak (Safety that is).
modtyrant 6 months ago
@GrapplingIgnorance When alcohol and cigarettes were first released they halved assed it (No warning labels on cigarettes etc). If they plan on legalizing marijuana, they need not make the same mistake again which is another thing I'm worried about.
modtyrant 6 months ago
@modtyrant You also avoided this:
"Your like glorifying the drug and never talk about the cons. It looks like you only consider the pros an that's it." - you said this.
QUOTE ME DOING THIS PLEASE.
This one out of your chain of straw men should be very simple for you to defend, just copy and paste a quote showing me doing this.. if you cannot then it is most assuredly a straw man.
marduc42 6 months ago
@marduc42 I said "looks like" and was over exaggerating (It's a statement not a refutation). A straw man is creating the illusion of refuting the original position with out actually doing so, when i DID refute your original position (Legalizing marijuana right?). I explained why you made a straw man, but you have never once explained how i have made any, you are just throwing it out their to avoid directly refuting some of my points, which is similar to a straw man and obnoxious.
modtyrant 6 months ago
I believe that I own my body. What I put in my own body is not the government concerns.
tubetib 6 months ago
@tubetib while I agree, the loophole is that there are not laws (specifically in the U.S) against actually consuming the drugs, so "technically" they are not forbidding you from putting it in your body. The drug laws that are in place target possession, not consumption - the consumption part of the equation is conveniently rendered moot as a result.
marduc42 6 months ago
@marduc42 I don't know the law that much. I am in Canada. A forbidden plant, how ridiculous is this? We are telling Nature what to do?
tubetib 6 months ago
@tubetib It however goes beyond that if you're somewhere in the United States. Unless your parents and yourself took all the methods to avoid exposure to added elements and avoided virtually all the food supply which has added chemicals in it, then you are getting more into your system than you expect probably.
InferiorThanYou 6 months ago
@InferiorThanYou Yes, I admit that these days it is pretty hard to know well what we are eating. The big corporations are taking care of us and they seem to have a lot to hide.
tubetib 6 months ago
I think what one should do is legallize all harmful substances but have harsher punishment for putting other people at risk while under the influence. One D.U.I. (The influence of whatever substance you are on) should result in years of jailtime. Allow some leeway with substance use, but make sure that the general public is protected from the users. :)
EnglishMyBadIs 6 months ago
the problem is that the companies that sell beer and cigarettes are blocking this product that would be in competition with them. Don't think that somebody will let acquirable money to others. getting money is always the first goal at the detriment of common sense
Kyrzak12 6 months ago
just saying i agree.i never smoked (pot or tobacco),but it doesn't make any sense for this substance to be illegal,while alcohol and tobacco are legal.
practicalmagic9 6 months ago
This guy is missing one important factor in his video that he didn't address. The prison industrial complex and is a monster we have been funding with our taxes and feeding our youth. Extended sentences for minor crimes feeds the companies large sums of tax payer money. For every prisoner incarcerated equals more taxpayer cash in their pockets. Also cheap labor for private corporations.
TheCaliCapitalist 6 months ago
@TheCaliCapitalist Which private corporations enlist prisoners for cheap labor?
GrapplingIgnorance 6 months ago 5
@GrapplingIgnorance although I'm not TheCaliCapitalist I can answer this one. UNICOR, CCA, GEO Group for example. Then there are numerous other companies that make profit off prisoners like telecommunication companies charging absolutely exorbitant rates for phone calls, prison commissaries where all items are at least double the retail price while an inmate can make somewhere between $0.16 to $1.20 (almost unheard of) an hour, leaving families of these inmates out of pocket for incidentals.
langlangcech 6 months ago 6
@GrapplingIgnorance I don't know about private corporations, but I heard that ALEC is enlisting prisoners for cheap labor. I wish I can find my source...
nemo3590 6 months ago
@GrapplingIgnorance ALEC (American Legislative Exchange Council) is making prisoners do the jobs of public employees, for either no pay, or 20 cents an hour.
EziekielNightwind 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@GrapplingIgnorance "Which private corporations enlist prisoners for cheap labor?"
ALEC (American Legislative Exchange Council), Corrections Corporation of America, The Geo Group (a.k.a. Wackenhut Corrections) ...
watch?v=JWg-rLYcO7o
hoosiergambler 6 months ago
@GrapplingIgnorance The military. Seriously, I may be wrong but at many Marine Corps bases the civilians used to make the food are convicts.
shadywolf91 6 months ago
@TheCaliCapitalist
I'd advocate for turning potheads into slaves.
Mectrixctic 6 months ago
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@Mectrixctic "I'd advocate for turning potheads into slaves."
Alcohol does a better job of turning people into slaves.
TheHigherVoltage 6 months ago
I feel the same way, going after peoples pot only cost gov't money and the side effects will be the same (or smaller) with pot being legal
-with one exception: the will be a net gain in tax for state/gov't.
...but I do not support the usage unless you can't help yourself or is in medical need.
Paxmax 6 months ago
Last year California had Prop 19 to legalize marijuana. The polls showed the bill was going to easily pass. Unfortunately when it came to election day, all of the pot heads were to stoned to bother to show up to vote, so it was defeated with only 46.5% yes.
oscargordon 6 months ago
Something people learn in rehab programs is alcohol is a solvent and is also, without exception, the single most destructive substance people consume. It deteriorates and destroys every thing from one's head to one's toes. I don't partake of either, but the criminalization and demonization of weed is completely and totally irrational and inconsistent in a society that embraces and celebrates the consumption of beer, liquor, wine, et the way America does. It makes no sense at all.
PawnBACM 6 months ago
How about this for a compelling argument? If cannabis were legal then the people who profit from it would have to pay taxes on that income. It would cut opportunities for money laundering to the detriment of some of the biggest banking institutions in the world. It would negatively impact the profitability of private prisons and the careers of highly paid law enforcement officials. I could go on but surely that convinces you of the evils of legalization?
colourmegone 6 months ago
@colourmegone lol.
Yea, let's not legalize Cannabis, because private prisons will get paid less! :D
ILIYYILI 6 months ago
@ILIYYILI It's all about the money, and it applies not only to drugs but to all victimless crimes, including prostitution.
colourmegone 6 months ago
Lets not go nuts with the taxing or people will stick with the illegal stuff
TruthBeyond 6 months ago
Speaking as a fellow non-pothead, I have to agree 100%.
Anyone who looks into the history of the prohibition on marijuana will learn that the motivations for this prohibition were nothing but BS pandering to corporate interests from the get-go.
bowlsallbroken 6 months ago
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VOTE RON PAUL!
TheIronicBanana 6 months ago
@GrapplingIgnorance Want to know why politicians won't legalise this? Because imagine, trying to convince an average person legalising a drug will be a good thing.
I support the legalisation, but the average person is not as smart. Just look in Australia with the Carbon Tax. It's a tax on big polluters(companies), it will help our climate, yet everyone seems to hate it. Yeh...
ADTCloneBH 6 months ago
You haven't seen Australian politics...
The elected party spends their term fighting against the oppositions need to say the opposite of everything... Yay!...
ADTCloneBH 6 months ago
So true.
Devilock07 6 months ago
Leagalize, tax it, and use some of those taxes to fund drug rehab. The most effective way to reduce the use of something is through long term demonization rather than making it illegal. Smoking has dropped from a rate of ~75% to ~25% in the last 50 years. It was never made illegal. We need to address the desire to use drugs, not the drugs themselves. Prohibition didn't work because it didn't address the demand for alcohol, only the substance.
savageecho 6 months ago
I never have and never intend to smoke marijuana, either...but I'm for legalizing it, too. I think it is just ridiculous when people think you have to engage in something yourself to be for legalizing it.
fruitikay 6 months ago
There are so many issues like this, where there is an obvious, empirically demonstrable overwhelming benefit of a certain policy (although there may be some negative impact as well) and this is completely ignored because people view the world through "stories". Saying that I guess one should re-evaluated one's own POV regularly.
8DX 6 months ago
Whenever talking about this, all I EVER hear are the same tired excuses:
"Then our teens would get high instead of drunk!" -"There's enough problems with alcoholists!", or "It's illegal for a reason"
When not only could it be distributed via pharmacies with the same kind of "don't sell to someone already wasted"-policy as alcohol currently is, but also every single country that has legalized saw a slight increase, but it evens out to the same increase% as other countries during that timeframe.
Daealis 6 months ago
@Daealis "a slight increase" It would be interesting to see those stats. How is this estimated? I mean it makes sense that if something is illegal then you'll always get lower statistics of use due to underreporting. Same goes for abortion, homosexuality, etc. So if you have a 10% increase it would be very difficult to estimate whether or not those are new users, or just better reporting.
8DX 6 months ago
@8DX
"How is this estimated? I mean it makes sense that if something is illegal then you'll always get lower statistics of use due to underreporting. Same goes for abortion..."
- i take your argument and raise you the ACTUAL abortion statistics:
Article: 'Legal or Not, Abortion Rates Compare'
Extract: "A comprehensive global study of abortion has concluded that abortion rates are similar in countries where it is legal and those where it is not"
types10000 6 months ago
@types10000 Thx, great read although this has been widely known I guess. Also from the article: “These numbers are not definitive and very susceptible to interpretation according to the agenda of the people who are organizing the data,” said Randall K. O’Bannon, director of education and research at the National Right to Life Educational Trust Fund in Washington."
Sad. So sad.
8DX 6 months ago
You are spot on.
When I was in the army my battalion commander freaked out that I was smoking tobacco from a hookah pipe in a bar in the Middle East because it looked like I was smoking pot.
Then he made me join him and the rest of the officers in the bar where they had brought their own beer bong and were making a big mess of the place. We Americans are so backwards.
TheFaithCheck 6 months ago
@TheFaithCheck Hah, thanks for sharing that anecdote, FC.
GrapplingIgnorance 6 months ago
Tax the farmer to grow it . Then charge a sales tax when he sells it to Phillip Morris.Then put a federal stamp tax on it. Then a state sin tax on it . Then a federal state & county sales tax on it. Sell it in liquor stores only. Package it like cigs. & if your caught with the seal broke on package in your vehicle give you an open container ticket.
lonnievogt 6 months ago