yeah well, american gis probably killed just as many ore more german pow. a bunch of generals including omar bradley gave orders not to take german pow, especially not ss or paratroopers. so what the hell? both sides committed crimes. but there is no movie about a us war crime. and this is not relativating history, im just pointing out to facts that many people still do not want to hear or simply ignore.
@therealbamlee Just because a General gives an order not to take prisoners doesn't mean its obeyed and it certainly doesn't prisoners are taken then killed, Allied soldiers still took prisoners on D-day and after Malmedy etc despite orders received.
@therealbamlee Both those books are written by the highly biased, discredited revisionist and so called author James Bacque. Can't say I'm remotely inclined to believe his 1,000,000 deaths in the Rhine camps, over respected military historians, veterans, and local people who say it was around 5,000.
@Anders2185 as soon someone questeions the offical story, he is brandmarked a revisionist. I think bacque gave enough data and sources to his claims. did you talk to wwII veterans? I talked to german veterans, they told me they almost starved in us costody. I do not say bacque is right beyond and doubt, but I think there is some truth in his research.
@therealbamlee Its questioned because there are so many holes in his story. The Rheinwiesenlager stretched along a 200 km stretch of the Rhine river, Bacque's so called 726,000 dead would mean about 3600 dead per km or thats more than one corpse per foot. Yet despite the huge construction work carried out after the war in that area not one of these legion of dead were found.
@therealbamlee Several panels were formed to discuss his works these conclusions were reached which were that he; misuses/misreads documents, ignores contrary evidence, uses a statistical methodology that is hopelessly flawed, made no attempt to see the evidence he gathered in relation to broader situation, made no attempt to perform any comparative context, puts words into the mouths of the subjects of his oral history, ignores available and critical source that decisively dealt with his issue.
@Anders2185 what about the reports of witnesses? of course the yform a panel or whatever to disarm his claims, the allied forces would look pretty bad if he was right. so its easier to bash him right from the beginning. again, I do not say he is right. I just find it very interessting. I think a lot that we know is formed by post war propaganda, and to be honest, I just dont know what to believe.
@therealbamlee Some reports ring true, others had their stories twisted, other witnesses interviewed by the aforementioned panels turned out to be out right fabricated, even their service records didn't match with the interviews. I just think Bacque was very selective about what he used. My problem with the story falls into the 'too many people would have to be silent' argument. If nearly a million German POWs had been killed, SOMEBODY would have said something by now, with more concrete proof.
@therealbamlee Ambrose is also quoted as saying "Mr. Bacque had made a major historical discovery." But that was before him and others researched more into the book. Ambrose has also spent most of his life talking to WW2 veterans, (my grandfather happens to be one of them) and writing about them, I believe the only agenda he has is bringing the grisly story of war to the masses.
@Anders2185 and maintaining eisenhowers reputation as war hero?. my granddas is also a wwII vet (german) he told me about the way americans held him captive. he was 16
@27thlegion Let me just clarify my stance by saying I'm aware crimes were committed on both sides, and they should be condemned, but you can't deny that these were more significantly more frequent on the German side, I can only name a handful of incidents on the allied side.
@27thlegion Let me ask you this, what would you rather have? 200,000 Japanese dead killed by the nukes, or a few more millions of Japanese, American, British and Aussie lives lost in an invasion of Japan?? The predicted casualties from the invasion of the Japanese mainland far exceed that of the atomic bombs by a significant margin! And no, no laws were broken since the Geneva Convention does not cover air bombing attacks, pre 1945.
@27thlegion Also I believe the following justified the atomic bombs.... Japanese Treatment of Allied POWs, The rape of Nanking, The Bataan Death March, Unit 731, I could go on.
•Canicattì massacre: killing of Italian civilians by US Lieutenant Colonel McCaffrey. A confidential inquiry was made, but McCaffrey was never charged with an offence relating to the incident. He died in 1954. This incident remained virtually unknown until Joseph S. Salemi of New York University, whose father witnessed it, publicised it.
Biscari, US 180th Regimental Combat Team (Thunderbird Division) murdered unarmed Italian and German prisoners. Pattons Diary "Tell the officer to certify that the dead men were snipers or had attempted to escape or something, as it would make a stink in the press and would also make the civilians mad. Anyhow, they are dead, so nothing can be done about it".
Chenogne, Sixty disarmed German prisoners were marched behind a small hill out of sight of the still held woods and machine gunned by units of the US 11th Armoured Division (no one was held accountable)
Whilst the Malmedy killings definitely took place they were one of many such massacres on both sides.....however....this clip is pure Hollywood.....not accurate nor factual.......
You know this is a distortion. There were VERY FEW instances of Germans POWs killed by American captors. You need to read up more on this subject before make uninformed comments.
I know he was court-martialed. I'm not sure of exactly what happened to him. I can tell you this though. What few incidents US soldiers are guilty of regarding the killing of POWs pales in comparison with the atrocities of the Third Reich. American soldiers look like saints compared to the Nazi SS or even the Germany Wehrmacht. The "final solution"--the extermination of the Jews--was Nazi POLICY. As worth sick medical experiments on POWs and Jews.
Nazi Germany even went so far as to INSTITUTIONALIZE the murder of the Jews. They even manufactured ovens specifically made to burn human bodies in the concentration camps and manufactured Zyklon B cyanide to kill Jews in death chambers marked "showers". What Nazi Germany did is sick beyond imagination. The Nazis are lucky they weren't ALL killed when Germany was overran. Fucking SS killed millions upon millions of Russians in invasion o Russia.
@DontBuyChinese Crematoria was installed in most world wide internment camps (not only Germany) to deal with the disease which came to these places ie Typhus Lice. Zyclon B is a lice delousing agent used in Delousing chambers ie food utensals, issued clothing (at great expence to the Reich) Not gassing people. They were trying to save people not gas them. Doessn't the shaved heads give you a clue.....
If you believe the crap you just told me, then you really are brainwashed. Zyklon B was used to killed Jews in gas chambers, and you know it. Don't try to deny it. Just admit it. You know it is fact.
Joseph Goebbels' diary has many references to plans to exterminate the Jews. And don't be silly--do you REALLY think that the Nazi "leadership" (a term I use very loosely) would take any chance of incriminating itself by publishing a policy regarding the extermination of the Jews? Give me a break. During the Nuremburg trials, many of the defendants accused of war crimes justified their murders of the Jews by saying they were only carrying out orders! Now you go cry.
Can't believe you are so brainwashed that you believe the Holocaust was faked. Unbelievable. Like I said, Germany is damn lucky it surrendered before the atomic bomb was available. Only the Japanese in WW2 come close to what Nazi Germany did. The entire world went into a deep, dark abyss when that sorry piece-of-shit Adolf Hitler rose to power and millions of Germans bought in to his bullshit Nationalist Socialist German Workers Party.
@DontBuyChinese Haha Where did I say the holocaust was "faked"? It is grossly exagerated for jewish purposes. Tell ya something do you still believe in the Nazi shrunken heads, Lamp shades made of human skin or soap made from human fat? Please come back, you're such fun..
" In an interview General Clay gave years later, he stated about the material for the infamous lampshades: "Well, it turned out actually that it was goat flesh. But at the trial it was still human flesh. It was almost impossible for her to have gotten a fair trial."(8) Ilse Koch hanged herself in a West German jail in 1967.
@DontBuyChinese "There is no convincing evidence that she [Ilse Koch] selected inmates for extermination in order to secure tattooed skins or that she possessed any articles made of human skin."
You know as well as I do that lack of evidence will acquit, and an acquittal is merely a lack of proof rather than proof of innocence, which is not the same thing.
@DontBuyChinese The lampshade and tattooed-skin charges were made against Ilse Koch, dubbed by journalists the "Bitch of Buchenwald," who was reported to have furnished her house with objects manufactured from the tanned hides of luckless inmates. But General Lucius Clay, military governor of the U.S. zone of occupied Germany, who reviewed her case in 1948, told his superiors in Washington, cont..
@DontBuyChinese Now what about the "shrunken heads and human soap crap. You say this was also true? Later we'll go to your diary and debunk that also.
The Nazis were pretty good about destroyed documents that would have established guilt and they were also pretty good about NOT creating documents in the first place that would also have established guilt. There was a code of silence in the NazI hierarchy. You never debunked my statement that Nazis at Nuremburg on trial proclaimed innocence by stating they were merely carrying out orders from above when them committed wars crimes of an unspeakable nature.
Obviously you are German. If you are, your country carries the biggest burden of guilt and has a very, very dark past. What Americans did to Indians is NOTHING compared to what the Nazis did to the Jews, POWs, and others. Sick beyond imagination. Germany was a very SICK nation during WW2 and is fucking lucky the atomic had not been perfected before they surrendered or it should have been dropped on Berlin.
@DontBuyChinese Most of the holocaust crap has been debunked, only some fools believe in the controlled jew media. Go and have a cry by watching Schindlers List again, taught in schools as historical fact "but it is not" just like most of the crap sheeple swallow...
Malmedy was the biggest lie ever, they finally admitted that on history channel. They were ambushed and got smoked by the Germans, but the hypocritical political arena of thqat time wanted to murder innocent Germans instead of dig for the truth. Sad that 60% of German losses were not combat.
kool
crystallite291 2 weeks ago
yeah well, american gis probably killed just as many ore more german pow. a bunch of generals including omar bradley gave orders not to take german pow, especially not ss or paratroopers. so what the hell? both sides committed crimes. but there is no movie about a us war crime. and this is not relativating history, im just pointing out to facts that many people still do not want to hear or simply ignore.
therealbamlee 5 months ago
@therealbamlee Just because a General gives an order not to take prisoners doesn't mean its obeyed and it certainly doesn't prisoners are taken then killed, Allied soldiers still took prisoners on D-day and after Malmedy etc despite orders received.
Anders2185 5 months ago
@Anders2185 try to get your hands on a book like "other losses" or "crimes and mercies". you will be shocked what the allied were capable of doing.
therealbamlee 5 months ago
@therealbamlee Both those books are written by the highly biased, discredited revisionist and so called author James Bacque. Can't say I'm remotely inclined to believe his 1,000,000 deaths in the Rhine camps, over respected military historians, veterans, and local people who say it was around 5,000.
Anders2185 5 months ago
@Anders2185 as soon someone questeions the offical story, he is brandmarked a revisionist. I think bacque gave enough data and sources to his claims. did you talk to wwII veterans? I talked to german veterans, they told me they almost starved in us costody. I do not say bacque is right beyond and doubt, but I think there is some truth in his research.
therealbamlee 5 months ago
@therealbamlee Its questioned because there are so many holes in his story. The Rheinwiesenlager stretched along a 200 km stretch of the Rhine river, Bacque's so called 726,000 dead would mean about 3600 dead per km or thats more than one corpse per foot. Yet despite the huge construction work carried out after the war in that area not one of these legion of dead were found.
Anders2185 5 months ago
@therealbamlee Several panels were formed to discuss his works these conclusions were reached which were that he; misuses/misreads documents, ignores contrary evidence, uses a statistical methodology that is hopelessly flawed, made no attempt to see the evidence he gathered in relation to broader situation, made no attempt to perform any comparative context, puts words into the mouths of the subjects of his oral history, ignores available and critical source that decisively dealt with his issue.
Anders2185 5 months ago
@Anders2185 what about the reports of witnesses? of course the yform a panel or whatever to disarm his claims, the allied forces would look pretty bad if he was right. so its easier to bash him right from the beginning. again, I do not say he is right. I just find it very interessting. I think a lot that we know is formed by post war propaganda, and to be honest, I just dont know what to believe.
therealbamlee 5 months ago
@therealbamlee Some reports ring true, others had their stories twisted, other witnesses interviewed by the aforementioned panels turned out to be out right fabricated, even their service records didn't match with the interviews. I just think Bacque was very selective about what he used. My problem with the story falls into the 'too many people would have to be silent' argument. If nearly a million German POWs had been killed, SOMEBODY would have said something by now, with more concrete proof.
Anders2185 5 months ago
@Anders2185 but you did a real nice job quoting wikipedia.
therealbamlee 5 months ago
@therealbamlee I was actually quoting Stephen Ambrose, wiki's information isnt exclusive mate
Anders2185 5 months ago
@Anders2185 that guy himself as a historian is highly questionable. Im sure he is following his own agenda
therealbamlee 5 months ago
@therealbamlee Ambrose is also quoted as saying "Mr. Bacque had made a major historical discovery." But that was before him and others researched more into the book. Ambrose has also spent most of his life talking to WW2 veterans, (my grandfather happens to be one of them) and writing about them, I believe the only agenda he has is bringing the grisly story of war to the masses.
Anders2185 5 months ago
@Anders2185 and maintaining eisenhowers reputation as war hero?. my granddas is also a wwII vet (german) he told me about the way americans held him captive. he was 16
therealbamlee 5 months ago
@Anders2185 and on one of the beaches over half the German soldiers captured were murdered by Americans
27thlegion 2 days ago
@27thlegion and your evidence would be where?
Anders2185 2 days ago
@27thlegion Let me just clarify my stance by saying I'm aware crimes were committed on both sides, and they should be condemned, but you can't deny that these were more significantly more frequent on the German side, I can only name a handful of incidents on the allied side.
Anders2185 2 days ago
@Anders2185 want to know the 2 biggest war crimes of WW2? Hiroshima and Nagasaki... those bombings were completely against the Geneva convention
27thlegion 2 days ago
@27thlegion Let me ask you this, what would you rather have? 200,000 Japanese dead killed by the nukes, or a few more millions of Japanese, American, British and Aussie lives lost in an invasion of Japan?? The predicted casualties from the invasion of the Japanese mainland far exceed that of the atomic bombs by a significant margin! And no, no laws were broken since the Geneva Convention does not cover air bombing attacks, pre 1945.
Anders2185 2 days ago
@27thlegion Also I believe the following justified the atomic bombs.... Japanese Treatment of Allied POWs, The rape of Nanking, The Bataan Death March, Unit 731, I could go on.
Anders2185 2 days ago
•Canicattì massacre: killing of Italian civilians by US Lieutenant Colonel McCaffrey. A confidential inquiry was made, but McCaffrey was never charged with an offence relating to the incident. He died in 1954. This incident remained virtually unknown until Joseph S. Salemi of New York University, whose father witnessed it, publicised it.
jagerfaust2009 5 months ago
Biscari, US 180th Regimental Combat Team (Thunderbird Division) murdered unarmed Italian and German prisoners. Pattons Diary "Tell the officer to certify that the dead men were snipers or had attempted to escape or something, as it would make a stink in the press and would also make the civilians mad. Anyhow, they are dead, so nothing can be done about it".
jagerfaust2009 5 months ago
Chenogne, Sixty disarmed German prisoners were marched behind a small hill out of sight of the still held woods and machine gunned by units of the US 11th Armoured Division (no one was held accountable)
jagerfaust2009 5 months ago
Audouville La Hubert, Disarmed German prisoners were massacred by units of the 101st Airborne Division..
jagerfaust2009 5 months ago
Many US and Canadian units were ordered to not take prisoners during the D Day landings
jagerfaust2009 5 months ago
HQ 328th United States Infantry Regiment, dated Dec 21st 1944. "No SS or Paratroops will be taken prisoner but will be shot on sight"
jagerfaust2009 5 months ago
Whilst the Malmedy killings definitely took place they were one of many such massacres on both sides.....however....this clip is pure Hollywood.....not accurate nor factual.......
macbrack04 8 months ago
the allied forces also killed german POW tit for tat .. so US army is too self righteous
lomtei 8 months ago
@
You know this is a distortion. There were VERY FEW instances of Germans POWs killed by American captors. You need to read up more on this subject before make uninformed comments.
DontBuyChinese 6 months ago
@DontBuyChinese US Major General Raymond Hufet to his troops in 1945 "No prisoners will be taken after crossing the Rhine river"
jagerfaust2009 5 months ago
@jagerfaust2009
Yes, he said that, and he was COURT MARTIALED for what he did. In the German Army and SS, it was policy. Not even close in a comparison. Sorry.
DontBuyChinese 5 months ago
@DontBuyChinese What happened then? to Hufet (can't wait)
jagerfaust2009 5 months ago
@jagerfaust2009
I know he was court-martialed. I'm not sure of exactly what happened to him. I can tell you this though. What few incidents US soldiers are guilty of regarding the killing of POWs pales in comparison with the atrocities of the Third Reich. American soldiers look like saints compared to the Nazi SS or even the Germany Wehrmacht. The "final solution"--the extermination of the Jews--was Nazi POLICY. As worth sick medical experiments on POWs and Jews.
DontBuyChinese 5 months ago
@DontBuyChinese If it was Nazi policy "the extermination of the jews" show me one document that refers to this...
jagerfaust2009 5 months ago
@jagerfaust2009
There are few documents because the Nazis did not want any news to leak out or leave behind incriminating evidence after the war. It WAS policy.
DontBuyChinese 5 months ago
Respond to this video...
Nazi Germany even went so far as to INSTITUTIONALIZE the murder of the Jews. They even manufactured ovens specifically made to burn human bodies in the concentration camps and manufactured Zyklon B cyanide to kill Jews in death chambers marked "showers". What Nazi Germany did is sick beyond imagination. The Nazis are lucky they weren't ALL killed when Germany was overran. Fucking SS killed millions upon millions of Russians in invasion o Russia.
DontBuyChinese 5 months ago
@DontBuyChinese Crematoria was installed in most world wide internment camps (not only Germany) to deal with the disease which came to these places ie Typhus Lice. Zyclon B is a lice delousing agent used in Delousing chambers ie food utensals, issued clothing (at great expence to the Reich) Not gassing people. They were trying to save people not gas them. Doessn't the shaved heads give you a clue.....
jagerfaust2009 5 months ago
@
If you believe the crap you just told me, then you really are brainwashed. Zyklon B was used to killed Jews in gas chambers, and you know it. Don't try to deny it. Just admit it. You know it is fact.
DontBuyChinese 5 months ago
@DontBuyChinese It is not fact as you would put it...Zyclon B was designed and manufactured for delousing Typhus lice in delousing chambers.
So not one document exists that you can refer to as "policy" Not ONE? You're already out of your depth
jagerfaust2009 5 months ago
@jagerfaust2009
Joseph Goebbels' diary has many references to plans to exterminate the Jews. And don't be silly--do you REALLY think that the Nazi "leadership" (a term I use very loosely) would take any chance of incriminating itself by publishing a policy regarding the extermination of the Jews? Give me a break. During the Nuremburg trials, many of the defendants accused of war crimes justified their murders of the Jews by saying they were only carrying out orders! Now you go cry.
DontBuyChinese 5 months ago
@DontBuyChinese Listen leave your interesting findings here and I'll deal with them one by one, right now going for some popcorn...See ya soon :-)
jagerfaust2009 5 months ago
@jagerfaust2009
Can't believe you are so brainwashed that you believe the Holocaust was faked. Unbelievable. Like I said, Germany is damn lucky it surrendered before the atomic bomb was available. Only the Japanese in WW2 come close to what Nazi Germany did. The entire world went into a deep, dark abyss when that sorry piece-of-shit Adolf Hitler rose to power and millions of Germans bought in to his bullshit Nationalist Socialist German Workers Party.
DontBuyChinese 5 months ago
@DontBuyChinese Haha Where did I say the holocaust was "faked"? It is grossly exagerated for jewish purposes. Tell ya something do you still believe in the Nazi shrunken heads, Lamp shades made of human skin or soap made from human fat? Please come back, you're such fun..
jagerfaust2009 5 months ago
@jagerfaust2009
FACT - go look up the 'BITCH OF BUCHENWALD'--the commandant's wife. A fact--she made lampshades from the skins of Jews.
DontBuyChinese 5 months ago
@DontBuyChinese
" In an interview General Clay gave years later, he stated about the material for the infamous lampshades: "Well, it turned out actually that it was goat flesh. But at the trial it was still human flesh. It was almost impossible for her to have gotten a fair trial."(8) Ilse Koch hanged herself in a West German jail in 1967.
jagerfaust2009 5 months ago
@jagerfaust2009
Ilse Koch was the name of the Bitch of Buchenwald. She had lampshades made from the skin of murdered Jews.
DontBuyChinese 5 months ago
@DontBuyChinese "There is no convincing evidence that she [Ilse Koch] selected inmates for extermination in order to secure tattooed skins or that she possessed any articles made of human skin."
jagerfaust2009 5 months ago
@jagerfaust2009
You know as well as I do that lack of evidence will acquit, and an acquittal is merely a lack of proof rather than proof of innocence, which is not the same thing.
DontBuyChinese 5 months ago
@DontBuyChinese The lampshade and tattooed-skin charges were made against Ilse Koch, dubbed by journalists the "Bitch of Buchenwald," who was reported to have furnished her house with objects manufactured from the tanned hides of luckless inmates. But General Lucius Clay, military governor of the U.S. zone of occupied Germany, who reviewed her case in 1948, told his superiors in Washington, cont..
jagerfaust2009 5 months ago
@DontBuyChinese Now what about the "shrunken heads and human soap crap. You say this was also true? Later we'll go to your diary and debunk that also.
jagerfaust2009 5 months ago
@jagerfaust2009
The Nazis were pretty good about destroyed documents that would have established guilt and they were also pretty good about NOT creating documents in the first place that would also have established guilt. There was a code of silence in the NazI hierarchy. You never debunked my statement that Nazis at Nuremburg on trial proclaimed innocence by stating they were merely carrying out orders from above when them committed wars crimes of an unspeakable nature.
DontBuyChinese 5 months ago
Respond to this video...
Obviously you are German. If you are, your country carries the biggest burden of guilt and has a very, very dark past. What Americans did to Indians is NOTHING compared to what the Nazis did to the Jews, POWs, and others. Sick beyond imagination. Germany was a very SICK nation during WW2 and is fucking lucky the atomic had not been perfected before they surrendered or it should have been dropped on Berlin.
DontBuyChinese 5 months ago
@DontBuyChinese Most of the holocaust crap has been debunked, only some fools believe in the controlled jew media. Go and have a cry by watching Schindlers List again, taught in schools as historical fact "but it is not" just like most of the crap sheeple swallow...
jagerfaust2009 5 months ago
Malmedy was the biggest lie ever, they finally admitted that on history channel. They were ambushed and got smoked by the Germans, but the hypocritical political arena of thqat time wanted to murder innocent Germans instead of dig for the truth. Sad that 60% of German losses were not combat.
MrBritdog2 9 months ago
0:26, St. Vith was the site of another massacre. it's sad
Avinator5712 1 year ago
isso não é guerra!!!
This is not war!!!!
Ecorobson 1 year ago