Were homosexuals sexually abused as children?

[DeathIIV]

this entire video is a joke LOL im gay and ive NEVER EVER been harrassed or sexual abused and i like guys that are THIRTY THANK YOU not immature idiotic children >.>

[zjones1222]

Homosexuality can be a initiated by early childhood experiences. Its according to circumstance in combination with personality and insecurity of the individual child in being stern about themselves. There are some which never become homosexual but were molested as boys. Another group experienced the same fate but due to circumstance carried out a gay act. A growing problem with young boys is that society has ignored the symptoms of a molested boy which gives rise to homosexuality.

[GojyotheFeared]

@zjones1222

No. The growing proble is that we have idiots like you that are unfortunately bred into society believing that homosexuality is a negative thing, which gives rise to the idiocy that brought about the idea that homosexuals were either molested as children or will eventually molest children themselves and that such a low draw number could never adequately represent the whole of even the segment.

[fatfatat444]

There are tons of gay Clergymen in every church who ARE homos. They molest children.

[DeathIIV]

@fatfatat444 omg im gay and i molest THOUSANDS OF CHIKLDREN even though there nasty hateful disgusting shits. oh btw in all seriousness i like thirty year old men :) because MEN are mature enough to be able to know what they like and dislike... did you know that heterosexuals molest boyd more than gaysmolest boys? interesting huh ^-^

[kelarael]

Great video- Another thing you didnt mention is that given the small percentage of peopel who identified as bisexual or homosexual, the statistical significance of their results to do with childhood abuse are actually quite low, you could not draw a significant conclusion from that result.

[MinervaInTheBrain]

"more likely to have experienced" can very easily be "more likely to have remembered" or some other variable, or bad population size.

[blobvision]

I was never sexually abused as a child and was attracted to the same sex by the time I was 7 years old. That's evidence enough for me to be skeptical of the correlation. Homosexuality presents itself in many other animal species. Were they all abused? Many sexually abused people grow up heterosexual. Why did they not become homosexual? I don't see any evidence that abuse and homosexuality correlate without strong research. However, fetishes, like s&m, might be influenced by abuse.

[Epitome613]

I was uncertain what to make of this video for the first part of it. Now that I have watched the whole thing, I am impressed with the outcome. Well done!

[brunodemoura]

I suspect that if the study shows opposite results, you will be saying: "That shows that homosexuality has nothing to do with sex abuse."

The only good point made was the reverse of correlation and causation on the interpretation of the study. Even so, to me this study shows something.

Homosexuals have nothing to be afraid of. Being gay is a right regardless of the personal motivation.

[arachnophile01]

@brunodemoura "If the study show the opposite result..." that's because causation does imply correlation. let me give you an example "Rain comes with the wet ground, ergo wet ground causes rain" is illogical whilst "If rain causes wet ground, wet ground comes with rain" is logical

[brunodemoura]

@arachnophile01Maybe I don't make myself clear. If the results show no significant difference among homosexuals and heterosexuals, I bet the author of the video would change his approach at this survey.

[arachnophile01]

@brunodemoura And my comment was explaining why that wouldn't be hypocritical. and I doubt the "Author" of the video would jump to conclusions based on a single study

[Clausfarre]

However unlikely, it would be interesting if a study done perfectly and objectively showed the same result as the one from New Zealand. You do make some good points though to suggest another outcome as more likely.

[acronus]

Then I have to wonder, what's my excuse for being gay?

I wasn't molested or abused as a child. My first sexual encounter was with a woman. I've never had feminine tendencies. I've bonded pretty much equally with both my Father and Mother.

[RadarKat73080]

"Negative events"? WTF? After birth, it's a fact of life!

[waltermh111]

I know women who became bi / lesbian due to becoming damaged goods

Thats to say they have had a bad experience with a man or men and do not want to be hurt again so they refuse to get too close to anybody, especially men. They just cannot be connected with

They will often seek the comfort of other women, even romantically, as they still feel the need of companionship

Sometimes women wont have been damaged, but will simply have grown disgusted with men and avoid them despite attraction

[sinmantyx]

@waltermh111 Did you just refer to a group of women as "damaged goods"?! I once had to hold back a friend of mine from punching someone who used that phrase - I'm not sure I made the right choice. Seriously - uncool, dehumanizing, and fucking insulting.

[waltermh111]

@sinmantyx lol, surprised it took somebody this long to be offended enough to respond

Also, its probably not a very common term and definitely not politically correct I know, but its sad that metaphorical or analagous usage has become lost to some people

You take it too literally, such as if i used a car analogy you would say i am calling the person a car

Or if I used a human analogy for a car you would take me as humanising the car

Also, your friend has issues if he cant control his own anger

[sinmantyx]

@waltermh111 It is NOT an analogy. It's a historically charged throw-back phrase from a time when rape was considered a property crime against either a girl's father or her husband. Unless you are completely clueless to the fact that marriage used to be a business arrangement and a woman was considered a "good" in Western culture, and that this mentality still exists, you are naive as hell. ...not to mention modern female slavery. Metaphor my ass.

[waltermh111]

@sinmantyx i dont know history of this throw back phrase, but its a very useful analogy to describe somebody whos been bruised in the past and makes themselves unpleasent enough so that others will not want to get close to them

Though in her case, she didnt have too bad an attitude, just openly admitted to a really nice male feminist who loved her that she didnt want a relationship and barely even wanted a friendship

Sadly she still has not stopped doing things that go with such a past

[waltermh111]

@sinmantyx So you can take it how you want to, because for me, my meaning is what matters, not what you take it to mean.

Times change and so do words, like gay is openly used by people who were once abused with it, the world moves on and you stay in the past.

I am likely an uncommon person to even find a new use for the word, but its been effective.

I do sympathise if you know someone from that time period though in such a situation, you seem personally affected by the word.

[sinmantyx]

@waltermh111 If you don't want to be misunderstood, just don't use the phrase. It's meaning hasn't changed as much as you might think. You only have to read about "purity balls" or read some bible or Koran to know that virgin girls are considered more valuable as sex objects and marriage-slaves. Having sex or being raped in some cultures will get you murdered by your own family - you're less than worthless. "Damaged goods" is what you call a girl who isn't worth marrying but is a good fuck.

[waltermh111]

@sinmantyx Dont worry, I dont mind being misunderstood because healing doesnt start til past negatives become neutrals.

blacks like to use the word nigger now, gays are being called that in a good way and use it on themselves positively.

I rarely use it, and I may evolve to other phrases in time, but I am not the type to care about societies semantic quibbles. I dont mind explaining myself on the rare time I use it. I am used to people not liking my views anyway, I know myself well enough.

[sinmantyx]

@waltermh111 "Semantic quibbles"? wow. Anyway, at this point you are starting to remind me of some psychopaths that I've come across. I know that accusation seems to be coming out of nowhere, but you are starting to creep me out (because I know what to look for). Hope I'm wrong. Have a nice day. :)

[waltermh111]

@sinmantyx Also, I always thought damaged goods were untouchable, makes more sense.

The point being the girls wont even allow anybody to get near them. Those types usually dont even want sex and i dont know of any western culture that percieves rape as positive to do to any girl.

But then humans are some sick people. I Its crazy what actions people will justify and for what reasons.

Though understanding people fuels my love of psycology. Such a complex world.

[waltermh111]

@sinmantyx As to the second part, yes, I know the history of marraige and dont even believe in it, and wish it was all abolished as its ownership period. Both man and woman are driven to own each other and this trap hurts a great deal of people.

Its bad for both sexes though I acknowledge not so much in the past as it is now. As equality has grown so has the irrelevance of marraige.

As to damage goods maybe being used in slavery, yeah, context is everything, your right. Good point.

[8DX]

CAPI! yeah I do translations about this!

Hmm wrong research method - I mean if you take 13K people and end up with the result: more, better studies! It is kind of confusing.

Isn't there are research method to remove the causation/correlation problem? Mainly checking and weighting for as many possible other factors?

Like: homosexual kids tent to be abused more?

Do a targetted "willingness to speak about abuse/homosexuality" study..

Compound the results from multiple study types.

um.. nice vid.

[sinmantyx]

Once I heard that 16 was the cutoff age that they used, I immediately came to the same conclusion that the poster did - that the correlation may be due to children being targeted. I'm not sure how the author of the study could miss this, since the targeted abuse of gay/lesbian/bi/trans teens is well documented.

[Godshoulddie]

...admit to a "loving experience" when he/she was really to young in which he/she "had their first loving homosexual experience". Look at the boy in the box. The young man who was kidnapped in Virginia, America and put in a buried box in the woods and then sexually assaulted for days. Shockingly, he grew up and is a homosexual. He needs to relive this traumatic event to make it ok in his mind. Now, again, NO, this isn't true for ALL homosexuals, but, yes, many.

[sinmantyx]

@Godshoulddie I suppose this may be possible - simply because there are gays who are psychologically and physically tortured into acting straight. I suppose the same could happen to a straight person who acts gay. I dispute your baseless assertion that this is *many* (whatever that means).

[crazypills2]

@Godshoulddie " Shockingly, he grew up and is a homosexual."

What does this anecdotal evidence mean? Did he become gay because he was abused or was he abused because he was gay? How do you know which is correct?

[Godshoulddie]

@crazypills2

There are many other sources other than JAMA, but, JAMA is well respected. I realize, of course, that here on youtube this is likely to become some sort of flame war, but, seriously, there is mountains of research that shows that children when sexually abused often seek out that same stimulation as adults. This in NO WAY is me saying that Homosexuals are all pedophiles. It is simply showing that when abused as children, humans tend to then seek out that as adults.

[Godshoulddie]

Homosexuals are BOTH born AND made. That is, we all know that there are children who will grow up gay or lesbian. You can tell that something is different about them and most can remember growing up that there were kids who were "different" in a way that later you could identify was most likely homosexual. However, over and over, if you ask MANY, not all, but MANY homosexuals, if they are honest, they will admit to having homosexual sex very young. Ozvulcan, if he/she is honest, will likely...

[TheGNUfan]

@Godshoulddie Do you have evidence to support this, or are you just pulling it out of your ass?

[crazypills2]

@Godshoulddie " if you ask MANY, not all, but MANY homosexuals, if they are honest, they will admit to having homosexual sex very young. "

First of all, please quantify MANY. Secondly, how do you know that your assertion is true?

[Godshoulddie]

@crazypills2

According to a JAMA review of literature re the sexual abuse of boys, only 10%-33% of male abuse victims ever tell anyone about that abuse. The review also found that: "Abused [male] adolescents, particularly those victimized by males, were up to 7 times more likely to self-identify as gay or bisexual than peers who had not been abused."

[crazypills2]

@Godshoulddie "The review also found that: "Abused [male] adolescents, particularly those victimized by males, were up to 7 times more likely to self-identify as gay or bisexual than peers who had not been abused."

Even if this is true, how do you know that sexual abuse caused homosexuality? An equally plausible hypothesis is the vulnerability model in which children who go onto same-sex behavior exhibit characteristics, even in childhood, that make them more likely to be sexually abused.

[Godshoulddie]

@crazypills2

Again, crazy, I would point you to the extensive literature that shows the correlation between sexual abuse in childhood and later behaviours.

[crazypills2]

@Godshoulddie "I would point you to the extensive literature that shows the correlation between sexual abuse in childhood and later behaviours. "

I agree that many studies show the correlation you propose. However, what does this correlation demonstrate?

You have said that sexual abuse is the 'cause' of homosexuality in some. Please demonstrate how correlation = causation.

Do you understand that causation can work in the reverse of what you propose? What is the probability you are right?

[Godshoulddie]

@crazypills2

So, what are you trying to tell me Crazy? That BECAUSE a child was born homosexual they CAUSED the sexual abuse? They INVITED it?

Again, crazy, I have stipulated that there are born homosexuals but, again, I point out the volumes of literature that you yourself acknowledge that shows the causal relation between sexual abuse and later behavours.

[crazypills2]

@Godshoulddie "So, what are you trying to tell me Crazy? That BECAUSE a child was born homosexual they CAUSED the sexual abuse? They INVITED it?"

I'm not suggesting that they caused it. I'm suggesting that maybe the characteristics they exhibited, even as a child, made them more likely to be targeted.

The point in all of this is there isn't enough info to make that determination of what caused what.

[Godshoulddie]

@crazypills2

Man, crazy, you might as well be saying that the reason a women was targeted for rape was because she wore a provacitive skirt.

[crazypills2]

@Godshoulddie "Man, crazy, you might as well be saying that the reason a women was targeted for rape was because she wore a provacitive skirt."

Well, that's not exactly the same. I am saying there might be behaviors in individuals who go onto same-sex behavior that make them more likely to be sexually abused. For instance, these individuals may feel like outsiders, making them an easier target for a predator who may befriend and manipulate them.

[sinmantyx]

@Godshoulddie No, I think he is saying that you are more likely to be hung by a mob in a predominantly white community if you are black.

[sinmantyx]

@Godshoulddie Also, check 4:06 - we are talking about assaults prior to age 16. Some teens are out by that point for goodness sakes. It makes little sense to me to try to find a causal relationship when what you are proclaiming may be the effect happens before what you suggest may be the cause.

[Godshoulddie]

@crazypills2 Obviously I disagree regarding there not being enough information regarding sexually abused children and their sexual behaviours in life. In a study by Remafedi, 239 men aged 13 to 21 who identified themselves as homosexual or bisexual were queried. Of these 42% had been sexually abused or assaulted. In addition 30% had attempted suicide; 23% used cocaine; 66% used marijuana regularly; 29% had been arrested; 11% had accepted money for sex.

[crazypills2]

@Godshoulddie " In a study by Remafedi, 239 men aged 13 to 21 who identified themselves as homosexual or bisexual were queried. Of these 42% had been sexually abused or assaulted."

I am unfamiliar with this study, but 42% seems very high to me...much higher than any study I've ever read on the subject. This makes me suspicious. Maybe I'll read the study.

Did the study do an in-depth analysis of the details behind the abuse?

[Godshoulddie]

@crazypills2

You know that I could go on and on with study after study that show causal relationships between early childhood sexual abuse and later behaviour in life. As I have repeatedly said, I don't actually have an axe to grind here. I'm not a crazy religious righty or something but I think you need to acknowledge that early childhood sexual trauma CAN and DOES cause later behaviours.

[crazypills2]

@Godshoulddie "You know that I could go on and on with study after study that show causal relationships between early childhood sexual abuse and later behaviour in life."

All of these studies show a 'causal' relationship? I believe if you read the study, you will find they show a 'correlation', which is much different than cause. This is the most important point from my video (of which I'm not sure you watched). Correlation does *not* imply causation.

[crazypills2]

@Godshoulddie "I don't actually have an axe to grind here."

I don't think you do. We're just two guys hashing out a disagreement.

[ozvulcan]

This is ridiculous, I'm a homosexual and I can tell you I definitely was not assaulted or abused as a child. Of course this kind of baseless tripe would come out of New Zealand.

[TheraminTrees]

Great to see your video of this study uploaded — and your characteristically methodical deconstruction of its flaws and biases. The part of Elisabeth Wells's quote that irked me was, '.... But if they are living a homosexual life and regretting it, that is another matter.' — she skips the question that cries out to be asked: Why do they regret it? If they regret it because of the prejudice and discrimination they experience, then, to use Wells's own phrase, that's indeed another matter.

[tattooskin72]

Wow, just another reason I think doing your own research is so important. As you were going over the study, I was shaking my head. This was extremely sloppy methodology... and Elisabeth Wells, shame on her.

[Raptor302]

Anonymous surveys would have been better than a face to face interview. Individuals tend to be more forth coming in those.

[skinnyjohnsen]

user/mrgodbehere has made one of the best videos ever on the subject! Please everyone go see:

watch?v=wGZX3LumHic

It pulls the plug on all sociologists!

[violentlygraceful]

Well done. You are on a roll with this recent series of videos.

[crazypills2]

@violentlygraceful "Well done."

Thanks VG

[SanieClaws]

Thank you for making this.

[crazypills2]

@SanieClaws "Thank you for making this."

I'm glad you liked it.

[6stringsbrainfingers]

Excellent video. I don't understand how anyone could be homosexual, (especially a guy), but I also just accept it, and don't care. It is rediculous to think something has to "cause" it though. It just "is what it is".

[TheMudbrooker]

The idea that more gay kids are abused rather than the other way around occured to me almost as soon as I started watching the vid. Quite a few homosexuals knew they were different at a young age and feeling like an outsider would make it easier for a predatory adult to befriend and manipulate them.

[cavejourney]

I remember when I chose to be gay. I was sitting in high school thinking "gee - how can I get beat up more often".

[blsmitty]

Thank you for a spot on review. I enjoyed you presentation and agree totally with your conclusions.Well done!!

[crazypills2]

@blsmitty "I enjoyed you presentation and agree totally with your conclusions.Well done!!"

Thanks for stopping by.

[sonvolt48]

I think that you put the nail in the coffin of this study with the very simple observation that those that are willing to admit "socially unacceptable" behaviors are much more likely to be honest in all of their answers to the interviewer. Well done mate!

[crazypills2]

@sonvolt48 "Well done mate!"

Thank you.

[disrxt]

This is an extremely flawed study. I can't believe if there was a real correlation other larger studies wouldn't have already pointed at this. One isolated study from New Zealand does not mean anything, until the study is repeated and verified I call shenanigans on Dr. Wells! Like they say there are lies, damn lies and statistics.