Neil Postman on Cyberspace, 1995

[sugarfoot34]

Neil Postman was a great man.....He was one of my professors and mentors while attending NYU. Brilliant indeed.

[SwordofNever]

@sugarfoot34 I envy anyone who had this man as a teacher. He was/is still a genius.

[americanwomanFL]

Wow.... I wonder what he would think now with ithe nformation "overload" and "glut" we have due to the social networks that were not around before he died. He almost predicted what they would do. And I can't even imagine what he would say about what cell phones, ipods and their ilk has done to our society.... YIKES! But...hardly anyone listened to him then, and I am sure they would not now. TO me Bradbury of Fahrenheit 451 fame is just as close as Huxley and Orwell.

[LightningNC]

Just because we are currently misusing a tool doesn't mean that the tool itself is inherently evil or necessarially destructive. It just means that we need to find a better way to use the tool.

You can use a knife to stab somebody. You can use that same knife to chop up some vegetables for dinner. The tool isn't the problem. It's how we use it.

[eyewitness043]

Why isn't Postman making this argument for mainstream TV?

[ragglefraggle09]

@eyewitness043

he did in "amusing ourselves to death"

[eyewitness043]

@ragglefraggle09 - Thank you. Gonna check that out.

[ragglefraggle09]

@eyewitness043

Sure thing, it's a fantastic book; really demystifies a lot of social phenomena in this day and age...

[MistahBlonde2]

@eyewitness043 because he died.

[SuperMsifiableful]

You have to decide on your own what needs to be done and not so much rely on tehnology. But on the other hand when you won't allow it to control you, technology is amazingly helpful. Both virtual and face-to-.face communication can be mindless and automatic. Most of student and human groups in general are labelling their members based on very shallow attributes, such as appearance, tone on voice, extraversion, popularity and gathering only to have control over the hierarhy of group.

[MrCyberspaceman]

Conciousness is a state of mind, but where is it located. Who are we interacting with in Cyberspace, think about it.

My favourite author of the 20th century, never a truer word spoken.

[psycomedia]

turn off

tune out

drop dead

watch?v=FmgKwJhodZw

[smokutusofborg]

Neil Postman wasn't a mailman but he was a man and he probably got a lot of mail.

[2101995eu]

new decade... the 10' decade... again...

[inquiry10]

ahhh the new age movement of the 90's

[skilledtrailers]

Wow, I really really like this interviewer. Subdued, but asking the right questions and letting the subject explain himself. Realizing that the focus is not on her but at the same time she remains involved enough to keep the discussion going and steer it in a proper direction.

Wish we had more of that these days.

[janX9]

@tranquileye I noticed the volume display at the beginning of the video. Was that from a Videon Cable Box?

[1shoryuken]

l recent finished reading his book 'Amusing ourselves to death' and it's a fantastic read.

we all love technology but we should always understand that it's their to enhance our lives, not to control them.

[noelsview2010]

Great video, but you can see the irony of putthing this on YouTube!

[PhilosopherKG]

@noelsview2010 I couldn't Agree more with you bud, I was thinking that myself as I watch this.

[bobbybay420]

@noelsview2010 haha true

[dotatough]

shave dat uni smart guy

[LVE91]

@AliceinChaynz You haven't watched tv for 3 years !?! How are you alive?

[ciccacarmen1]

Imparare a conoscere la vita..

[bakov5]

How silly!! What problem does cruise control solve? Hmm, let's see... How bout making it more convenient to maintain a constant speed while driving long distances... How bout increasing fuel economy... Postman raises some interesting points, as do Orwell and Huxley, but Postman is simply a Luddite and a curmudgeon. Technonlgy has vastly improved our quality of life and solved countless problems. Easy access to information cannot be expected to solve all problems though. Most people are too dumb.

[TheFaustianMan]

@bakov5

You're spot on. People like this pop up all the time when society is on the verge of a new technology. They feel left out, and they often misunderstand it. Oswald Spengler, Jonathan Edwards, and so on and so forth.

The idea he pins his premise on is that somehow interpersonal community is responsible and caring. While the shopping on the internet will remove the humanity from people. In that case, hospitals and jails and wars should be relative paradises compared to ebay and youtube.

[typeclash]

"information junkie" - good call sir :)

[wda013]

a pleasure and enlightenment (as always); Namaste N.P.!

--

But computers are undoubedly great. You can solve so many problems with them, that you didn't have before !

[leri84able]

@wda013 Can somebody translate it (with subtitles) to spanish? I know somethig abaou english but not enough. I woul like to understand all the things this brilliant man is saying. If somebody can, thank you!!

[wda013]

@leri84able

( desafortunadamente yo no hablo mucho espanol, so ) I cannot do the translation, but i'd be willing to put in a few hours of work (e.g. adding the subtitles) as part of a team

[WOLFURDAL]

TV can be a void, where the consciousness goes to sleep. The more awake someone is, the more he learns about life.

[dureye1986]

prophetic even in death.

[unfathomableinquiry]

What is the problem to which this technology is the solution?

How many of us ask ourselves this question when we post insulting comments on youtube, visit pornsites, surf the web aimlessly or whatever else you can conceive of? The mind is characterized from its manifestation in behaviour.

[OdinsHenchman]

@unfathomableinquiry

"Just look at us. Everything is backwards; everything is upside down. Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the major media destroy information and religions destroy spirituality" - Michael Ellner

[tabrizi79]

Truly my favorite author!

[hokieguy95]

Neil is one of the greats. Just about 3/4 way through Amusing Ourselves to Death.

The irony of all of this is that I and many others are being introduced to Postman via the internet.

[n0madc0re]

Awesome ... That was just 15 years ago ... And he did see everything. Awesome.

[poopynonsense]

so niel hates cruise control, because it doesn't solve any problem...

but i bet he doesn't think to himself "technology is using me" when he is sitting in his air conditioned home. It's all convenience and comfort, that's what technology is.

very little of technology truly solves world problems. true problems can only be solved by human action.

[brain1012]

5:11-5:14

"... Have no sense of what is relevant, and what is irrelevant..."

Kind of like wikipedia, readers of encyclopedia dramatica, and 4chan.

[Pdrum2]

As Thomas Langan said: "we cannot control our destinies, we are meant to contemplate and appreciate, as Postman sees very well,..."

[reformeddraught]

I'm working hard every day to make sure my own kids dont see this as simply a generation gap but as a fundamental shift in the history of civilization. We get our fair share of entertainment but we spend a lot of time enjoying words & ideas.

"Amusing Ourselves to Death" a must read: shows how these changes are affecting politics, religion and education and the degree to which our love of amusement itself has become the vehicle in which we expect the rational exchange of ideas to take place.

[ryecroft57]

This was an excellent distillation of Postman's thinking and of the three questions we should ask. I did that when I got an iPod for Christmas and concluded I don't need one. Who needs 24/7 entertainment or even educational stimuli streaming into one's ears? We need quiet time to mull, ponder and collect our thoughts to combat the discontinuity of information we receive (a good book on this topic I read awhile ago is DATA SMOG by Shenk). PraiseDog below says it all better than I could. Gary P.

[LuqmanNaq]

@ryecroft57 That's so true... we need time to contemplate. I find it a challenge because I was an only child and was inured from from a young age to technology. However my most internally peaceful experiences in my life have been in Malaysia when I was living in a village where I had no access to TV, Radio or the Internet. Instead I read, contemplated and observed nature.

[renatoalcides]

Visionary. In the near future, no one will be able to say that we haven't been warned.

[joviczarko]

I am affraid that this man is so right!!! :D

[antmann01]

I just have to say I love his book "Amusing Ourselves To Death," I doubt many of you have read it, since I know most of you have never even read a book. The Brave New World is here, ask yourself when was the last time you actually read a book, think about where you get most of your information from, think of how meaningless and stupid Twitter is, yeah shocking huh?

[charadester]

I'm reading it now and finding it very explanatory of my observations with work. I teach college biology, and I am appalled at the inability of students to read, write, or process information without the use of an amusing show in the classroom or a video from this very web site, Youtube. Textbooks now are 50% or more images, and study materials contain a predominance of videos and animations. They cana't seem to derive ideas form the written word. They are wired to iPods, but do not read.

[ryecroft57]

Charadester, I teach college writing and you well state our sad situation. I am still taken aback by the inability to write a formal essay (or simply to write without using texting shorthand). Too many books adopt the "magazine format" with pulled-out text, colorful sidebars and illustrations. Even the august NY Times now prints gigantic photographs to attract the jaded eyes of TV addicts. Postman is a man I turn to for solace and encouragement to try to bring about some change. Press on.

[charadester]

Thanks for the encouraging words. As I enter my 50's, the inevitable generation gap has finally arrived. I have nieces and nephews that rip through reams of empty information about movies, celebrities, and games like a buzzsaw, spending no more than seconds on any one thought. In class, the act of sitting still for more than a few seconds seems to be agony for them. Like their devices, they want the information delivered quickly via imagery or sounds...not the spoken or written word.

[LuqmanNaq]

@ryecroft57 @charadester Yeah I have that challenge too. My mind at times is restless when I read. When I persist I actually find the experience much more fulfilling than learning via technology, guess I have to start reshaping my mind to reading and real world activities. Technology has an addictive quality, I have no doubt about that.

[DonnieDarko1]

..."am i using this technology or is it using me?" Simply Brilliant. Just curious, where are you located Luqman? Prof. Neil Postman used to teach years back @ New York University & it saddens me to learn that he has passed away sometime ago. Some people have accused him of being a neo-luddite* like its a cuss word. Whether better or for worse, his unique observations and critiques are spot on.

[LuqmanNaq]

I'm in England at the moment. According to a respected UK newspaper the new communications minister is going to outline a plan where it is the law that everyone have access to broadband. Interesting times. Yeah he was incredibly insightful, I'm currently reading the disappearence of childhood.

[brajtnerinjo]

It's funny that he's kinda sleazy, the way he speaks with that mean smile, like a cartoon villain

[GreatGrumbledook]

I'm afraid not, Postman! Unfortunately, most of the sane people think that you're an utter prat! Ask them who they'd prefer to meet: Neil Postman or the man who cleans out the public toilets in Aberdeen, and they'd go for Wee Jock "Poo-Pong" McPlop, every time.

[hexnyc]

It is a you make it. What continues to be interesting about the internet is of the potential it has to do good or bad and everything in between. Information is there to be manipulated by people. The manipulation can be positive, negative, or neutral. The reason we have trouble getting a grip on the abundance of information is because we have values that we share and values that we don't share.

[DanDirindon]

Great! But I do not really think new technologies are against human contacts, it depends always on our free will and attitudes. They basically increase the number of alternative ways to get information and to get in touch and they speed up the contacts and the news diffusion.

I do not believe we are really overloaded of information 'cause internet.

Without internet I simply have less ways to chose.

[VariedInterest]

You have a lot of study ahead.

[FATHOM2356]

I don't listen to any radio or watch any television, but I certainly believe that Neil Postman is a brilliant intellectual, but ironically, the internet has certainly given me the privilige to watch this.

His ideas about the lack of human contact from technological movements in each era seem reasonable, but I believe that cell-phones as much as ipods can be used in the most benefiting way, and they can also be used in the most nonsensical way.

[PraiseDog]

Hey, two of us! No TV or Radio (other than radio for College Football/Basketball). No any news. Have not missed a thing worth knowing. Don't want an ipod, don't see how it would be more than a toy for me. Or a cell phone, as I don't need one, and don't want people calling me at will. I can see where for some it would be a good thing. But I go with Einstein, "keep things as simple as possible, but no simpler". Your brain gets cluttered if you clutter you life with unnecessary gadgets.

[mrgerbeck]

@FATHOM2356 Absolutely, and on a social scale the proper etiquette arise to best utilize and absorb technology. The problem is the velocity of technological progress. Culture cannot absorb it fast enough. The rate of obsolescence is ever increasing. What will happen when the rate of obsolescence goes from one year to six months, three months, a couple of weeks or--at the extremes--hourly or every minute. Its hard to imagine but a true revolution seems impossible in a world always undergoing one.

[jmm1233]

Cyberspace = the internetz

[jmalmsten]

Only me that get's the whole Prof. Brian O'Blivion vibe from this?

[jfreakjedi]

wow. his ideas suck

[typeclash]

How do you mean, can you give some examples?

[polghirstenskoetter]

Great interview, thanks for uploading. I'm reading Amusing Ourselves To Death at the moment

[balanshi]

He is fantastic! Some way similar to Jean Baudrillard's comment on simulation and sign-code system.

[Jitpring]

Friends, read his 1) Technopoly, and 2) Amusing Ourselves to Death.

The Brave New World is upon us. Resist.

[VariedInterest]

Tl;DR

[MisterDensity]

You can't stay off the internet if you recieve this message. You're already an addict! WE CANT RESIST!

[AliceinChaynz]

I totally agree with him. read his book 'amusing ourselves to death'. he is not anti technology, but understands the limitations each type of technology places on communication. television is the wrong medium for political debate, news and education, and the internet has similar and more complex limitations which are not immediately obvious to us, and are difficult to avoid. i have watched no tv for 3 years but still watch dvds, movies and use the net.

[skywifi]

I hate TV. It gives me a bunch of anxiety. I can't stand it. I'd rather read or research stuff online.

[pannoni1]

In fact I almost listen to the radio more than the TV now. 1949-1995 was when television mattered, then came the Web and changed things.

[mzjwright]

ARe you kidding..what a stupid comment! Grow up we got children out here ok, learning. And they need not learn your `shit`. Pathetic! Find a cause ppl and get involved. Find your place and who you are, and what you can do for YOUR WORLD! GET INVOLVED!

[mrpaul1112]

The reason why kids in somalia has nothing to do with a lack of information. Go look at wikipedia, you'll find the most useless details about anything and this should confirm Postman's suspicions that he was right.

[paradoxxf]

I agree (the fact that I can even comment here on this confirms that doublely!)

[franfranfranfran]

This guy freaks me out.

[cypherks]

Kill your television. Read more Marshall McLuhan.

[veryfuck]

fuck the internet, and tv

they should ban it, back to the roots back to the primitive fuck technology.

[emceescher]

Also, I think he was flatly wrong in some respects.

Also, I've been a reader of his for years, but I believe he failed to perceive the capabilities of the internet. He was right in his criticisms of it, but there were positives he failed to forsee, in my opinion.

[emceescher]

I definitely have some disagreements with this man over his criticism of "afro-centric" education

and

I disagree with his claim that racism exists, but information won't help solve it.

[jack9911]

inn-ter-net????

[jml4000]

If there are children solving in Somalia, that doesn't have anything to do with insuficient information? How can people people even help the starving Somalian children if they can't locate Somalia on a map, let alone even know it's a country?

[hyacks71]

wrong - postman was stating that we have more information about hunger, somalia (yes even its geography...) and the transportation of food than we have ever had. Regardless of this glutton of information, somalians are still starving

[emptyhighways]

If i'm not mistaken, the word "cyberspace" was coined by William Gibson in his novel Neuromancer published in 1982. The one that spearheaded the cyberpunk thematic-aesthetic. In the novel, as far as i remember, it is a sort of fully immersive virtual reality, a paralel dimention digitalis, which is shared by all it's users and is used to traffic information.

[FATMIME]

'When you are in Cyberspace, you can be anything you want..." Sounds good to me...

I'm 25 yrs old

I'm 6ft tall

I'm an athletic bodybuilder.

I weigh 180 pounds.

I make $250,00 a year

I live in a 3000 sq ft house.

I drive a brand new 2008 GMC Truck

Hmmm, nice.

[BillBillard]

so

1)technology isolates and fragments us

2)more information won't change power imbalances

3)technology generally solves the problem of a)having to hire workers who ask for time off, want benefits, etc by replacing them AND if your competitor adopts it, you are forced to b)maintaining profitablility

4)technology uses us

[JasonERF]

His apprehensions were bang-on. Great video... Would make some people on this site cry if they saw it.

[2pussyrider]

that was for mohammadmurtaza

[f60563]

this guy is right on the money. wow

[PickThisCar]

Wow, the Internet was very little in 1995. He had a lot of foresight.

[RThornhill69]

Thank you for saying something intelligent. Much like what Postman stated here, I had to sift through an endless supply of unnecessary comments just to find something of use.

Recently, I was thinking about getting the new iPod Touch. And then I imagined myself watching even more television wherever and whenever. I'm not buying it. It's all flash. Doesn't solve anything for me in my life. Just complicates it.

[mohammadmurtaza]

This guy looks like a child molester, I get chills up my spine when he says, "you can be who ever you want to be in cyberspace."

[soulstice99]

sounds more like dr. jim sadler than herb sewell

[2pussyrider]

at least he doesn't make himself look like a fugly and cocky terrorist bitch

[mohammadmurtaza]

at least im not a cultureless beaner from an aids infested country

[pilkingtonphil]

Wow, that statement just stinks of paradox... Seems like you're more of a cultureless, racist, underdeveloped technophile from a country that produces citizens who are actually able to insult another person for their coming from a country with an AIDs problem and to base their value jusgements of people on what you consider them to resemble... Postman had a good point about the inability to communicate and empathise online it would seem...

[guitarboy22j]

Do you get what I mean? He's saying tech is always both good and bad, never only one. And you can't blindly say "tech is always good".

[guitarboy22j]

By the way, the affect of television on public discourse, making it reactionary, emotional, and nonsense, would be exactly the kind of "downside" to technology that he is talking about here.

In response to the previous comments, one downside to the internet woudl be the environmental affects of all those amazon, ebay, whatever purchases. And what if those purchases are newer, faster computers and the consumerist cycle starts again but faster? That's only one example.

[guitarboy22j]

what is really ironic is that I cannot post a response to the below two in shorter than 500 characters. Its a clear response but long. Which is exactly what teh topic of amusing ouselves to death is about. how t.v. and other media alter the discourse into soundbytes.

[randyhelzerman]

I can't even believe you managed to scroungh this up!!! What an amazing thing. Literally hundreds of billions of dollars were about to be made on the internet and he's a "media scholar" and should be in the best place to figure out what's going to happen next.... just goes to show that if you want to know the future, you've got to talk to 19 year olds, not middle-age old farts.

[gu88766]

what are you yammering about? i would never talk to 19 year olds about the future.  when i was 19, i was reading alvin toffler's future shock and since then i've moved on to marshal mcluhan and neil postman.

the billions of dollars made on the internet doesn't mean anything to the interpersonal value.

[samiegray]

You guys are all stupid. Don't associate the shittyness of our society with the inevitable evolution of technology. Technology isn't necessarily electronic or digital. Google Gibson. Fuck this guy

[gu88766]

gibson the guitar guy?

[tomnunn07]

Great conversation with a great teacher. Everyone should pick up Postman's "Amusing Ourselves To Death." As for technophilia, well, I think it's only gotten a lot worse over 12 years' time. Every time Apple or some other company announces a new gadget or gizmo, it seems the whole world just lines up to get it. Too few ever ask, "Do I really need this?"

[parispeter2]

Hey folks - this is the last video of Postman left on YT, after the closing down of anticonsumer's account by YT. If you care about this, then type "anticonsumer" and watch our videos on this issue.

[parispeter2]

Small correction...there is also the Media Ecology Association video. But two isn't much for a major contemporary social critic.

[redtaperecorder]

yeah, i noticed that anticonsumer disappeared into the ether suddenly w/ no apparent explanation... thanks so much for letting us know the situation. perhaps even better than knocking on youtube's door and asking 'why' maybe it would smarter to open a NEW door where this kind of censoring doesn't happen...

[parispeter2]

You might be right redtaperecorder...it's just a pity that Postman and the other critics of unlimited consumerism and the show society would not have such a potential audience. We discovered that it was a copyright issue...but YT won't explain why they closed the account (which the "plaintiff", First Run Features, did not demand) and didn't just remove the offending videos (see the discussion under "Where is anticonsumer?")

[ebumpkin]

What a find. I'm trying to address this problem in my life right now - feeling used by technology.

[jakob0815]

Im Abendland geht die Sonne unter;

aber am nächsten Morgen wieder auf.

[arcticfox1]

We would do well to listen and reflect at length on what Neil Postman has said. It is more relevant now than twenty years ago.

[DrFallon]

You quote Postman in your blurb, "Am I using this technology, or is it using me?"

I wonder how you feel about this question since you are clearly active on YOUTUBE (and I suspect other areas of cyberspace).

I was a student of Neil's at NYU who teaches media criticism and communication ethics in a journalism program. I can rationalize my use of new technologies on this basis: I have to know them, understand them, and use them in order to teach students about the "Faustian bargain."

[mmmparsley]

How I wish Kurzweil died in place of Postman.

[tomnunn07]

So do I, mmm. And Steve Jobs too!

[thoughtwaretv]

Postman believed "there is a limit to the promise of new technology", while Raymond Kurzweil believes in the limitless promise of new technology.

May Raymond Kurzweil live and prosper.

[samdonuge]

Postman provided a sociological analysis of technology. The framing of the 'limit' technology is inappropriate; he merely contextualizes it.

[busmilk]

We lost Neil far too early. We need more erudite skeptics like him.

[THEMURDOCK]

i agree!

[jakob0815]

i agree!