[Full Video] Melissa Harris-Lacewell Keynote at Facing Race 2010

[1stworlder]

When she talks about the "hollow prize" of blacks being elected only after ecomomies tank she ignores that most blacks will only vote for blacks, so the economies are tanking due to the increasing black populations. Without enough white workers to be a tax base cities fall apart.

[AlfonzeBear]

@1stworlder Sources or not true. We will wait.

[chsn09]

This woman is actually BIRACIAL, NOT black damn it!

[jofoy2009]

I totally agree about why President Obama received the Nobel Prize.

[WolfmanMusic]

awesome speech!

[pand0rafirefly]

Melissa Victoria Harris... was the youngest of five children of a black father, William M. Harris Sr., the dean of Afro-American affairs at the University of Virginia, and a white mother, Diana Gray, who taught at a community college and worked for nonprofits that helped poor communities.[3][4] “I’ve never thought of myself as biracial,” Harris-Perry says. “I’m black.”[5]

[RonQE]

@pand0rafirefly She can call herself "black" if she likes, but only the racist and outdated "one-drop-rule" could support her in that assertion.

[jGetrou]

The African heritage of African-American Studies professors is irrelevant to the work they are doing. Let's focus on what matters here...

[RonQE]

@jGetrou I agree with you, her heritage is less important than the work being done.

I just found it an interesting observation that NONE of the people doing this work, academically, are mostly African in heritage. You'd think more would be.

[gummoboy69]

Did a long time ago? you mean like during the 1960s, when segregation was legal and dogs were being sicked on Black people who wanted to vote?

[sparle222]

shes so beautiful. i admire her

[2FYNFOYA]

I LOVE HER BRAIN

[123rekrap]

We need more people like Dr. Harris-Perry

[moviedude22]

good job peaceful americans :p

[david030491]

She is absolutely incredible, to be so bright and so personable is quite a skill.

[RonQE]

Isn't it interesting how nearly all the professors in "African-American Studies" are less "African" than "European" in heritage?

She's probably closer to 1/4 African

[AdIgnorantiam]

@RonQE First, I'd love some statistics to prove that. Second, what the HELL does that have to do with anything?

[RonQE]

@AdIgnorantiam Statistics to prove - ? LOL, I'm not trying to make a scientific paper, just mention an observation! If you know of enough women in "African-American Studies" who are mostly black, to suggest my observation is inaccurate, feel free to make mention of them.

It's not that it's all-important, it's just curious, that's all. Seems there would be actually more African Americans who were in charge of African-American Studies.

[AdIgnorantiam]

@RonQE I still reject your original idea, and I still fail to see the point in the first place.

[RonQE]

@AdIgnorantiam Seems like you reject without thinking, and out of bias, but such is your right.

[Htown75]

@RonQE AND?

[moviedude22]

@RonQE your point being?

[RonQE]

@moviedude22 It's just interesting that you never seem to see professors, scholars or researchers in African or African-American Studies, that are actually substantially African in heritage. It's not that it's of any great significance but I have to wonder why they don't seem to exist much.

[treehuggerdude4]

@RonQE isnt it offensive to claim that she is more european than african just because she is well studied and articulate? Do you mean to imply that a African American women cant be a professor at Princeton or the University of Chicago? Anyways, there are African people in latinamerica, europe, and all around the world. What do you mean to imply?

[RonQE]

@treehuggerdude4 I never wrote anything remotely resembling your comment.

I am referring to her being mostly European mostly based on her appearance and various physiological features.

Besides, most black people, especially in America, are mixed anywhere between 20%-50% European anyway, and she's even more European in appearance than those. You can bet she's more European than African.

Africans sometimes CAN be educated and articulate. It's their CULTURE which gets in the way.

[treehuggerdude4]

@RonQE there is great physiological differences within different ethnicities and within different people. Are you saying that because her nose is not a certain width, because her skin is lighter, she is more european than african? Not all white people are short, or blond, or blue eyed. Similarly, not all African people look the same.

And african american culture gets in the way of them being educated and ariticulate? Im sorry, i think thats bullshit. Whitesupremacy and racist U.S more like.

[RonQE]

@treehuggerdude4 There are variations, sure, but there are still recognizable traits. It's never a 100% identification but the more the features lean in a certain direction, the more likely they come from a certain proportionate origin.

But your bias is clear when you start babbling about crap like "white supremacy" and "racism".  Oh, PLEASE. The last thing the USA needs is more FALSE accusations of "racism" whenever someone mentions anything about race.

[treehuggerdude4]

To people of color, racial discrimination is not "crap", just a reality of life. You think racism in the US is a false accusation? What about the shit going down in Arizona? What about the way that America greeted Sonia Sotomayor, the first woman of color of the supreme court? What about the arrest of that academic Gates or whatever? Racism is still a huge problem in the U.S. Just because people benefit off of white or straight privledge doesnt mean that society treats everyone the same.

[treehuggerdude4]

I dont believe in post racialism. We are still fighting that shit, its not over, in my opinion

[RonQE]

@treehuggerdude4 Sure, many blacks do still face racism from whites. But not as much as whites fave racism from blacks, these days, and blacks don't face as much discrimination from the "system" as whites now do, as a result of quotas and the "PC" climate. Sad but true.

What we need to do is all just individually hold to high standards and quit waving race around everywhere, whatever color we are.

[gummoboy69]

@RonQE

In America that doesn't matter. One "drop" black and you are black. During slavery her 1/4th blackness wouldn't have mattered. She would still have been a slave.

[RonQE]

@gummoboy69 That was over 100 years ago.

In today's world, the "one drop rule" is only used as an excuse by the racially divisive (most of whom are black these days)

[gummoboy69]

@RonQE

Once again WHITE people CREATED the one drop rule. Black people adapted to it in the face of a white supremacist society. Now white people are complaining about it? Well, maybe white folks should have treated Blacks like humans in the first place. Can you understand, given America's history, why someone would want to identify with their African Heritage and not their slave owner heritage?

[RonQE]

@gummoboy69 "White people" are not just one, big group, with one single mind, now and always.

If SOME black people choose to cause trouble over the perversion of a concept which SOME people, who happened to be white, did a long time ago, then yes, I, as a person who had NOTHING to do with the creation of that stupid "rule", centuries ago, have a problem with it.

I think that any time someone denies their heritage based on race alone, it's a sad thing.

[dnno1]

@RonQE, That may be the (outward appearance), but being African American and being black is more of a choice and an experience than an appearance. Furthermore the "One Drop" and Octaroon laws of the Jim Crow south made it easy to discern who was back and who was white (even though we might want to disregard these laws the stigma is still there).

[RonQE]

@dnno1 Well, yes, one can CHOOSE to celebrate one aspect of one's heritage or the other (although, while sensitive to the issues facing African Americans, scholars like Harris-M don't exactly immerse themselves in "black culture").

As for "Jim Crow", why even bring that up in this day and age? It belonged to a different time and people today are trying to get past that old racism. Why cling to it?

[dnno1]

@RonQE, Jim Crow and in particular the "one drop" rule is a part of history that a lot of people still follow (law or no law). Why should we ignore history? Does it make you feel guilty or something?

[RonQE]

@dnno1 Perhaps a "lot" of people follow a "Jim Crow" mentality, but many more people don't, and think it's best eradicated.

No one said to IGNORE history, just that we keep it in perspective AS history, to learn from, but not be defined or limited by it.

And NO, I don't feel guilty about these things AT ALL. I have only done GOOD in terms of social relations, race included.

[dnno1]

@RonQE, get real. Just think about it. How many communities around the United States are not integrated? Why is there still "white flight"? Why do you still hear comment from (white) people that they want to move because their schools are now integrated and their excuse is that "the education sysem is not as good as it used to be" or "that people don't speak English anymore"? Yes, by saying why bring Jim Crow up in this day and age is an attempt to ignore history -- something that we should not.

[RonQE]

@dnno1 Do you even understand why "white flight" exists?

It has nothing to do with the COLOR of the SKIN of the people in those areas.

It's the way they BEHAVE - and the way they are destroying their neighborhoods, families, communities and, yes, SCHOOLS. Then they complain and bitch because those who CAN, leave.

See, it's the problem with that "choice" to be "black", you mention. Too many black people CHOOSE to be something which is not good, and there are repercussions for it.

[dnno1]

@RonQE , yes I understand why it exists and I really wonder if you do at all. Although there are many factors contributing to "white flight", a lot of them systematically surround the goal of segregation. You say that it has nothing to do with color, but yet coincidentally, we have a lot of segregated communities (based on color) all around this country. It can't just be behavior since people of all races commit similar types of crimes even in the wealthiest of areas..

[RonQE]

@dnno1 As for "white flight", there's no "goal" of segregation by most of the population. Even those who wanted it mostly gave up on that notion a long time ago. It's just not going to happen.

As I wrote before, the reasons for the segregation we see is quite obvious. And it's not happening because of skin color. But it has everything to do with deterioration of the community.

This is the danger of blaming racism. It hides the need to correct the fundamental problems.

[dnno1]

@RonQE, I don't know about that being true and you don't either. Unless you can come up with facts proving as such, then I would strongly suggest you not state things that you don't know to be true. There is plenty of statistical data and literature to prove the contrary to what your have said.

[RonQE]

@dnno1 Of course I know it to be true. I have known NUMEROUS people who have moved, and WHY. I also have had discussions with people in real estate, having friends and associates in that field. I also know a lot of other things which support everything I've said.

In fact, the people who claim what you did, which is "statistical data to disprove" my points, always bring out BULLSHIT stats out of context, or can't produce such data at all.

Don't deny the obvious.

[dnno1]

@RonQE, then you only know what your friends tell you and that is not statistically accurate. For many years now, towns have collaborated with the private sector in racial segregation by closing integrated public school at the borders between white and black (or Hispanic) neighborhoods while building schools in the middle of subdivisions or developments that developers only market to one race. there was also redlining in the banking industry along racial lines. This is from a U. of MI study.

[RonQE]

@dnno1 Actually, as for what "friends tell me"; don't relegate my experience to merely that.

When you say "towns have collaborated with the private sector in segregation" - uh, WHAT? Do you have ANY evidence of this? Any at all? Statistics of what is happening don't begin to explain WHY things are happening, or what the INTENT of the people is.

"Market to one race" - what exactly IS that?

As for the banking industry, it's based on credit scores and financial viability.

[dnno1]

@RonQE, yes, there was a study done by the University of Michigan that stated such collaboration, and there are plenty of others (like the National center for Educational Statistics) have have data on white flight (just search for those key words at Google Scholar). White flight was prevalent in the 1970's and resulted in most of the segregated communities we have now. Even within the last decade there has been white flight from the public to the private school system (or to home schooling).

[dnno1]

@RonQE, as far as marketing to a single race, what was meant was just that. Entire communities where realtors sold property to a specific racial demographic. This happens all the time.

[RonQE]

@dnno1 Most of the black people who bring up Jim Crow are trying to use it as an excuse to get something they didn't earn and don't deserve, and out of a sense of not taking responsibility for themselves.

Just like your example of "white flight".

That isn't the fault of the WHITES that they leave when things get bad. Blacks who bitch about white flight are not taking responsibility for turning the neighborhoods into which they move, into trash.

[dnno1]

@RonQE, I don't know about that. All I can say is that Jim Crow happened and if we don't want it to happen again, it should be remembered and brought up at the appropriate time. Just saying that these are different time and attempting to ignore the fact that it happened doesn't mean that it isn't happening nor that it can't happen again.

[RonQE]

@dnno1 As I said, no reasonable person wants Jim Crow "forgotten", just as the Holocaust should never be "forgotten". The fact things like that DID happen proves they COULD happen again.

The key concept is that they are brought up IN CONTEXT and, as you say, at the APPROPRIATE TIME.

When these horrible things are brought up out of context, it only keeps alive the divisiveness that caused the problems in the first place.

[dnno1]

@dnno1, I think you originally posted that Dr. Harris-Perry was ¼ black and insinuated that he was more European than black. I brought up the "One Drop" rule (winch still applies in the United States) and the "Jim Crow" laws to indicate that it is easy for one to discern that she is black since any fraction of black or African ancestry would consider her as such (even Rashida Jones is black by the way). My use of  "Jim Crow" (which reflects that) is totally appropriate, thank you very much.

[RonQE]

@dnno1 First of all, the only ones primarily holding on to the one-drop rule are black, these days.

As for claiming that Jim Crow attitudes or laws exist in the USA, all I have to say to that is "bullshit".

It's a manufactured claim that many black people claim in order to get special treatment, or deny responsibility for their actions or status.

[dnno1]

@RonQE, I don't think it's only black people (just ask the Tea Party). I never specified a particular race, since it could be anyone. My point was that it is still being followed in the United States. This is not a manufactured claim since it has been law in many Southern states accross the USA..

[RonQE]

@dnno1 Just referring to "most". But I'm no fan of the teabaggers, either. Those idiots want to turn the clock back a century in many ways.

But the southern Jim Crow-like laws were eliminated decades ago, even though down there you'll find many people who are much more bigoted and racist.

[dnno1]

@RonQE, even though the Jim Crow laws were mostly repealed, the stigma of those laws (and in particular the one drop rule) still exists in the minds of the populace. In most Latin American countries where different races emigrated we see a lot of relationships that were/are interracial and a lot of mixing of races. That is not very prevalent here in the United States and that mostly stems from the stigma of the "one drop rule". It was designed to prevent interracial marriages and mixing of race.

[RonQE]

@dnno1 Why do you presume to know what is in "the minds of the populace", but you dismiss firsthand social observations made by anyone with a different opinion from yours?

Problem with the U-M study is that it doesn't state WHY the "white flight" occurred; or the changes in the neighborhoods which preceded the flight. I have seen it up close and know many of the people who moved out, and WHY. And it had nothing to do with mere skin color.

Are you saying they SHOULD have stayed?

[dnno1]

@RonQE, because it is you who presume what's in the minds of the populace based on your own social observations. I am basing my comments on information from scholarly sources and statistical data. Do you realize that you just going up to your friends and asking their opinion is not really statistically accurate? It doesn't really represent the true population because it is not random data. Search of University of Michigan and Causes of Segregation for reasons why there is white flight.

[RonQE]

@dnno1 What you call "marketing to a single race" is actually quite illegal and does NOT happen often.

Oh, sure, a certain race might be BUYING real estate, but whose fault is that?

One last comment about the "one drop rule" - if it's such a product of Jim Crow stigma, as you claim, then why do most whites dismiss it, while the one drop rule is kept alive and most passionately defended by blacks? I would be interested in hearing your theory on THAT.

[dnno1]

@RonQE, although the SCOUS found that practice to be unconstitutional (see Swan v. Charlotte-Mecklenburge Board of Education), undoing its effects are difficult and costly. Most of them are already set in stone now and have hardly changed.

[RonQE]

@dnno1 But anyone who understand stats, even basically, knows just how careful one has to be in assessing the "mind frame" of anyone involved. When properly contextualized, they can tell you a lot about what HAPPENED, but more often than not, it's someone with a political or legal agenda trying to attribute the "mindset" of the people to the reasons. I trust intelligent synthesis of multiple factors more than any one-dimensional stat, any day.

[dnno1]

@RonQE, and I guess you are careful at doing that... not. You are just drawing conclusions based on the opinions of a hand full of friends. I am sure there will be those who will offer up some manufactured experience that the educations system started to go south conveniently when a minority demographic moved in, but the truth of the matter is that it is not always the case.

[RonQE]

@dnno1 Show me ANYTHING in the U-M study which definitively attributes the flight to "racism" or "racial treatment against blacks". You won't find it, as those are spurious conclusions tacked on later by the revisionists.

What you are doing covers the FACT that the people who COULD move out moved out because of deteriorating conditions, most of which were due to increased crime, civil disturbances, lack of home upkeep and other problems. NOT "skin color".

[dnno1]

@RonQE, I can't post links here.

[RonQE]

@dnno1 You still never answered the question if, in those neighborhoods where whites left after blacks moved in, if they SHOULD have stayed, after the neighborhood declined.

In other words, is it "racist" to leave a deteriorating neighborhood, where crime is increasing and quality is decreasing?

The interpretation of the stats in that study conveniently ignore the actions of the blacks prior to the whites leaving, and conveniently ONLY blame the whites.

[dnno1]

@RonQE, first of all, not all of the neighborhoods declined and if they had stayed and insisted on it, their community would have been a better place. I know a number of folks in a number of those communities where some stayed. No, the actual act of moving is not racist in itself, but when one insinuates that the reason is because of fear or the dislike of being associated with someone of another race such as to belittle that race, then that would be racist. We have discussed examples.

[RonQE]

@dnno1 "A handful of friends". Hah. So that's what you're going to claim, is it?

You're WRONG. Seriously WRONG! LOL!

Granted, these neighborhoods might deteriorate MORE when the more affluent people move out, but the point is that it was deterioration of neighborhoods which causes it.

Again, the implication of racism or any mechanism of racial unfairness is manufactured via statistics abuse (i.e. partial info only) and completely unproven, despite politically driven "studies".

[dnno1]

@RonQE, I'm pretty sure that what you implied in your posts. You said you know numerous people who told you that and, outside of doing a full blown statistical study, that couldn't possible mean that you know the entire population of people who participated in "white flight" and their reason for it. I am not wrong. The fact remains that we have segregated communities, which would mean that somebody can discern a difference between the races and a lot of this stems back to "Jim Crow".

[RonQE]

@dnno1Haha! Doesn't mean just a "few people I've talked to" are merely "a few friends", nor does that mean the only source of information that goes into my opinions. I synthesize many sources, statistics INCLUDED.

What I have learned about statistical studies, though, is that most of the time, they don't say what people CLAIM they mean. As I mentioned, stats can say a lot more about what is happening, than WHY.

Yes, we have segregated communities. I blame it more on "black culture" per se.

[dnno1]

@RonQE, I seriously doubt that you did a randomized statistical survey since it doesn't match the conclusions of the consensus of such studies. Certainly there are folks that they left for the reasons that you are claiming, but the fact remains that the causes are "white flight" are systematic and that both government and private industry have played a role in it.

[RonQE]

@dnno1 No, I didn't DO a randomized statistical survey, but I have SEEN them and I have seen the bullshit "reasons" people try to attach to them based on nothing but their own personal and political agendas. Which is why I don't accept "there is a statistical study" as ANY kind of evidence, without the details of the survey AND the details of the analysis.

I know the games people like to play with stats.

Yes, Jim Crow could happen again but the immediate problem is exactly the reverse.

[jkedmond]

@RonQE What do you mean by, "Jim Crow could happen again but the immediate problem is exactly the reverse"? By "exactly the reverse" do you mean, American white people are living in an apartheid society, where second-class citizenship is codified in the civic code??? Do you see this type of social structure in America??? Because if you think that is true, then you live in a total fantasy world, most likely because you watch too much of the political whore house that is FOX "news".

[RonQE]

@jkedmond I mean that right now, black people, and other minorities, are coddled, more than oppressed.

The failure of black people is laid at the foot of white people, blacks are protected against their own ineptitude to much too great a degree, and woe is the white person who even APPEARS to be slightly racist, whereas overt racism is tolerated from blacks, all the time.

As for your ad hominems, they fall flat. I find Faux News to be an abomination of right-wing extremism.

[jkedmond]

@RonQE First let me commend you for recognizing Faux Noise as a political whore house; 40% of this country doesn't get that.

As for the rest, it sounds a lot like "blame the victim". People of color are in now way coddled. I would like to point you to Tim Wise. He lays out the systemic racism built into not only the structure, but the very psychology of our country.

[RonQE]

@jkedmond But how can it be "blame the victim" when black people and other minorities are no way victims?

Well, at least not victims of the system, or of whites. The only people victimizing blacks, these days, are blacks and the general culture being passed from generation to generation, in the black community.

The only systemic racism in today's society actually FAVORS blacks. Which actually harms them, as they don't learn to improve themselves, as much as play victim.

[jkedmond]

@RonQE Seriously??? You think that the systematic racism in this country *favors* people of color??? If you are blind to the second class citizenship people of color in this country face everyday, I certainly cannot lay it out for you in a youtube response.

[RonQE]

@jkedmond ABSOLUTELY, the system favors people of color, especially "blacks"!

Oh, I see the second-class citizenship of black people (and other minorities) all the time. But do I blame it on the "system" at all? No!

At least not the system of government and majority. The system which holds blacks down, is the "black culture" and the "black community".

Black people are held down by their own culture, despite of all the efforts of whites and the government trying to elevate them.

[YTwatcher38]

@RonQE welfare and project housing does not elevate people. Land, business and school investment, and economic foundations elevate people.

[RonQE]

@YTwatcher38 Actually, attitude and culture are the best factors which elevate people, provided the is similar liberty for all.

I agree that welfare and projects are not "elevating", and that's one of the biggest mistakes society is making, as it furthers the culture of dependency, but there are many other things which society has done to actually try to help elevate black people. But until the culture changes, nothing will REALLY improve.

[shieldsff]

@RonQE - try checking out:

"Between Barak and a Hard Place......" This is a lecture by Tim Wise available here on Youtube. Thanks

[RonQE]

@shieldsff I've listened to some of Tim Wise's speeches before, and I wasn't impressed enough to sit through that one you mentioned, which was 2+ hours in length. I just don't have the time, until such evidence is presented that he has more than the occasional point.

He seems to be out to rattle the chains and make a controversial name for himself with half-truths, aimed at convincing those who don't demand REAL evidence for spurious claims. But he didn't impress me.

[shieldsff]

"I wasn't impressed enough to sit through that one;.I just don't have the time"

Well mystery now solved as expected. No time 4 U 2 listen (presumably the same with the dozens of other clips many far less short).So I think it now proper to infer that you arrogantly want everyone to completely & unreasonably accept your simple dogma & non-historical observations as having any consequential validity.At the same time you absurdly dismiss informed scholars like MHL, Foner, Loury-NO THANKS

[RonQE]

@shieldsff Fallacious argument, there. I've actually given many of these issues more time than they are due. You'd have more a point if you suggested a 5-minute video and I refused to listen to it, which might suggest I just ignored the sources or otherwise was ill-informed.

You can't make an actual POINT, I see, to counter anything I wrote, so you have fallen back on these weak tactics. Whatever. You stand exposed.

[shieldsff]

@RonQE - on the contrary, I've provided more then sufficient -indeed, an abundance- of references which thoroughly bury your central "NON-thesis" that "black culture" is the cause of mainstream America's social injustices/pathologies (slipshod, convoluted, dogma which is a throwback to 19th century social darwinist pabulum).U have already admitted U are incapable or unwilling to analyze w//rigor or objectivity. How about this:GRITtv: Melissa Harris-Lacewell: Racialized Choices on Stimulus

[RonQE]

@shieldsff WTF? First of all, you provided very little actual information. Just a weak "listen to a 2+ hour video" tactic.

Second, and most critically, you entirely twisted my entire statement and premise.

You aren't even worth arguing with.

For the sake of others who read this, though, I never argued that black culture is at the root of America's various pathology. Nothing similar. I commented that said culture is responsible for the failure of the larger part of the black community.

[shieldsff]

@jkedmond -"Seriously??? You think that ...."

I think, sadly, you have answered your own question

[jkedmond]

@shieldsff This country is constructing a whole new racial caste; two, in fact: the mass incarceration of people of color, and the "illegal alien". In both cases, we no longer codify race outright in the civil code, now we call them "criminal" or "felon" or "illegal" and then we can legally subject them to all the same housing, employment, voting, etc. discriminations of Jim Crow.

[RonQE]

@jkedmond See, this is the problem with the claims being made.

You want to address the problem of mass incarceration of people of color? Then address the culture of crime which causes them to get put into prison.

Now, I agree that the prison system here has many problems, but the reason so many blacks wind up there is not anyone's fault but theirs.

[jkedmond]

@RonQE Don't get me wrong, I am 100% all for addressing the root causes of poverty. However, even when you account for socio-economic differences, whites are still 70% more likely to possess and sell drugs (according to DoJ statistics), and yet it's the black teenagers who are profiled, while the white kids are move along. You've internalized this mythology so, that you're convinced by some rationale that 90% of the prison population is people of color because somehow they commit more crimes.

[jkedmond]

@RonQE You probably think affirmative action is unfair. So quick to side with the white girl who sued the University of Michigan because some "less qualified" black got her acceptance letter. Never mind the 1400 less qualified white kids who were also accepted. I'll bet that thought never even entered your mind.

[jkedmond]

@RonQE Or maybe we should talk about the inequalities in the healthcare system; according to AMA statistics, black folks get less than perfect treatments because of unconscious internal prejudices of the doctors, wherein they are somehow less likely to follow directions and take the medication as prescribed.

[jkedmond]

@RonQE How about we discuss the educational trends (according to the Dept of Education) in which kids of color are far less likely to be promoted to advanced-track, and AP level courses, because of similar unconscious internalized mythology that black and latino kids are not as smart or not as hard working as their white counterparts (again, even accounting for socio-economic status).

[jkedmond]

@RonQE Maybe we should talk about how "ghettos" are created through "eminent domain" ordinances which allow the state to build the interstate splitting right through thriving black communities. Never mind the unofficial housing covenants where potential black buyers are steered away from particular communities, perhaps by rejecting qualified loan applicants. You probably never realized the same financial crap that cause the '09 housing crisis was being pulled on people of color for 30 years!

[jkedmond]

@RonQE So please enlighten me again about how it's black peoples fault.

[jkedmond]

@RonQE Did you know that the Dept of Justice reported largest number of housing discrimination complaints by black and latino people in 2009? That's right, 2009, not 1960.

[RonQE]

@jkedmond As for the complaints about "housing discrimination", oh, yes, I'm sure they COMPLAIN more. When you show me any REAL evidence of real discrimination, based on race, then you'll actually have a point, there.

It's quite established blacks, and to a lesser degree, Latinos, have learned to complain about "unfair treatment", because society coddles them.

[jkedmond]

@RonQE Maybe you could explain to me how black or latino culture is the reason that on average the general estate (including anything that is passed along to children) of white families is 11 times larger than the general estate of black families, and 7 times larger than latino families. Because it has nothing to do with internalized racism locking out the vast majority of these folks. (And yes, there are always individual success no matter the caste. Even a few slaves collected some wealth.)

[RonQE]

@jkedmond Good gosh, so much to respond to, but I'll just hit the central issues.

Such as - how is it black people's fault they wind up in prison? Really? Whose fault IS it, then, that they commit more crime? White people's?

As for blacks not getting as far ahead - hell, when most can't be bothered to LEARN or SELF-IMPROVE enough to even speak moderately well, is it any surprise they don't get in as many classes, make as much money, or get out of the ghettos?

[shieldsff]

Perhaps it would begin to make sense (though no gaurantee) if you took the poster's advice and take the time to view and reflect on some of the various vids available from Tim Wise (and several others) to which you were directed. Your comments make clear that you have not spent any time examining the issue in any depth or with much of a historical perspective in mind. To rant about failed "black culture' is a weak point as Blacks are american in every sense. Also try reading Foner & Zinn

[RonQE]

@shieldsff Funny how you insinuate a disagreement with your perspective means one has not looked at the topic. On the contrary, I have.

Without dissecting all the comments, I'll just leave it with the notion that I'm not doing the ranting about a failed culture and seeking to separate people. My complaint is against those who are trying to separate THEMSELVES - and then blame their problems and woes on "us", per se, as if they weren't part of the same overall society.

[jkedmond]

@shieldsff Well said. In addition to Tim Wise, Eric Foner, and Howard Zinn, I suggest reading Michelle Alexander, Douglas Blackmon, Taylor Branch, David Hilfker, Philip Dray. My biggest complaint is the historical context that seems to be lost on people. If we had a context against which to view and interpret the world, we might understand what the hell is going on, and how we got here. (I have a feeling we are on the same page here.)

[shieldsff]

@jkedmond - thank you sir.... In addition, I strongly recommend the current profile of Black History month vids on my channel... Thanks for taking the time to read, study and be educated on these matter. God bless you (and the lovely M. Harris-Perry) too,

[shieldsff]

re RonD-on the contrary, I've provided more then sufficient -indeed, an abundance- of references which thoroughly bury your central "NON-thesis" that "black culture" is the cause of mainstream America's social injustices/pathologies (slipshod, convoluted, dogma which is a throwback to 9th century social darwinist pabulum).U have already admitted U are incapable or unwilling to analyze w//rigor or objectivity.How about this:GRITtv:Melissa Harris-Lacewell: Racialized Choices on Stimulus

[dnno1]

@dnno1, no randomized study, then it can't be that accurate. Sorry guy.

[RonQE]

@dnno1 Now, did earlier slavery, oppression and Jim Crow policy have a hand in making "black culture" what it is today? Absolutely!

Problem is, though, in curing it, there's only so much one can do if the people involved are clinging to a damaged culture and way of being rather than saying "thank GOD we don't have to be like THAT any more".

I don't have any simple answers to this problem, but continuing to blame white people and asking the system give blacks special treatment is NOT an answer.

[dnno1]

@RonQE, the problem is that Jim Crow has not been totally cured. The remnants of it still remain in all facets of life. White flight is just one facet. Slavery as we knew it may be gone, but indentured servitude still exists to this very day. I don't have any simple answers to this issue either, but what I can say is that we should not forget that what did happen in the past could happen again if we fail to remember it.

[Sheeeeeenful]

@RonQE no 1/2 actually

[RonQE]

@Sheeeeeenful You have her DNA test results, then? Or her complete family tree?

If we only have to go on circumstantial evidence and her appearance, it's more likely she's a lot less than 1/2 black.

I'm open to the DNA test results, though, if she ever releases them LOL

[Sheeeeeenful]

@RonQE NOOO go to her wikipedia page her father was black and her mother was white. How can you make such a conclusion with anecdotal evidence ? You see african american studies professors that you have had the possibility to encounter in one way or another in your PERSONAL LIFE who doesn't seem to be 100% of african heritage and all of a sudden you make the assumption that they are all like that....

[Sheeeeeenful]

Futhermore what difference does it make because you are more "european" than "african" you don't know as much about the african american experience in america ? Since the beginning of times there have been a one drop rule that defines every individual who have the slightest bit of african heritage as AFRICAN.

[Sheeeeeenful]

@RonQE Futhermore what difference does it make because you are more "european" than "african" you don't know as much about the african american experience in america ? Since the beginning of times there have been a one drop rule that defines every individual who have the slightest bit of african heritage as AFRICAN.

[RonQE]

@Sheeeeeenful Who said anything about personal life?  Check out the ones who are in the news and the celebrated authors. The are mostly highly mixed. If you know of many other such public figures who are predominantly African, feel free to share links to their videos.

As for the one-drop-rule, which most white people these days completely reject (and was NOT around since the "beginning of time"), it only reinforces my point re wiki page stating her father is "black" doesn't mean he's FULL black

[Sheeeeeenful]

@RonQE you don't know what you're talking about it's seems rather obvious judging by your response that you only have a superficial knowledge on the african american studies issue.

Patricia Hill Collins

Molefi Kete Asante

Cornell West

William Julius Wilson

Cedric Robinson

Nathan Hare

famous one that i know of

I forget many are you suggesting that somehow if they have white blood they are more able to tell in an eloquent way the african american experience ? because i don't see your point

[Sheeeeeenful]

@RonQE 58 percent of African Americans have at least 12.5 percent European ancestry (equivalent of one great-grandparent); 19.6 percent of African Americans have at least 25 percent European ancestry (equivalent of one grandparent); 1 percent of African Americans have at least 50 percent European ancestry (equivalent of one parent) (Gates is one of those, he discovered); 5 percent of African Americans have at least 12.5 percent Native American ancestry (equivalent to one great-grandparent).

[RonQE]

@Sheeeeeenful Funny how half of your specially selected examples were still obviously mixed. And that is without mentioning the rest who are even more mixed. Of course, your attempt to make it all about insults falls flat.

Problem with the "at least 50% stats" are that many with more than 50% European heritage won't even call themselves "African-American".

Funny how you said "what does it matter, the ethnicity, it's the work which matters" then you're the one making ethnicity a big deal?

[Sheeeeeenful]

@RonQE no none of them are mixed. i checked.....

I make ethnicity a big deal because that's your primary focus. and i want to answer you by speaking your "language" i don't care about those stats

[RonQE]

@Sheeeeeenful You don't think Patricia Collins is mixed?

Yeah, right.

Anyway, I only brought up the ethnicity once. You seem to find it important enough to continue arguing about.

[gumsguey]

That's hot! :)

[Fuentes2722]

Melissa's thoughtful, deep, focus on the issue of race, always succeeds at keeping the subject on the table for discussion, with an eye towards moving forward. As long as you can talk about it, progress can be made.

[RachelA42]

I want to know what the other 9 moments were!

[Wolfiemouse]

Want to open a can of worms? How much 'black' blood makes you African American? How much 'white' blood makes you white? Are you a Native American, with how much Native DNA? Let's stop the labels. We are all humans, and with DNA analysis, all related at some point or another in time.

We are mixed, regardless of what we may look like! Obama is just as white as he is black and until we accept the reality of this, we remain a racist nation.

[seandtb]

@Wolfiemouse Oh come on. Racism exists. It doesn't exist because of "labels." And it doesn't exist because people (both Blacks and Whites) see Obama as Black, instead of as White. Calling for an end to "labels" and talking about how we're all "mixed" is a distraction from the real work of dealing with deeply entrenched racial inequities that act in very real ways on the lives of people of color, particularly those without class privilege.