On Becoming Japanese: Part 3 ~ 日本人になる事・残業と人権？？

[poisanjp]

日本のサラリーマンは本当は残業したくないんです。

[CriticalTh1nker]

...in fact, she referred to it as "perfect."

So what was your approach to learning Japanese?

I'm still at the "lost" stage; remembering a few select phrases that will never be used in conversation, and it occurs to me that if I'm ever to converse with anyone here, that it's not likely to be achieved through the memorization of phrases.

[gakuranman]

@CriticalTh1nker Thanks for the comment. Personally I think Hikosaemon's Japanese is far more solid than my own, but I don't really care for comparisons myself. I appreciate the kind words though :).

As for learning Japanese, repetition and immersion. Most of the Japanese I use in day-to-day life is repetitive phrases and chunks of language that I piece together. For example ~のではないでしょうか to make a suggestion. Things like that. Good luck!

[CriticalTh1nker]

You might be interested in knowing that my wife, who is native Japanese, just said that you Japanese is much better than that of Hikosaemon.

[Yoouhu]

ある程度の一般の日本人なら日本の方ががおかしいだけと思ってる­のでは…

あなた方外国人の感覚の方が正しいのではないでしょうか。

私は自分が好きなことを仕事に出来てるので仕事時間が多くても平­気ですが。

[tokumas]

But, some Japanese people including me want to change the totalistic systems like "Zangyou" because, it is against to human rights, democracy and it's not great for making flourish sustainable society which people live lively spending money and mentally healthily. Also It's not the era for Japan to just make electronic stuffs for importing to other countries anymore. It's getting be in an era of creation for Japan to create flourish and wise people for making better society for happiness.

[ShadowxMaker]

It's interesting but you look like Sam Monroe from Siren: New Translation....

[8HOLYSUN]

私は日本人男性ですが、「学ラン」を着た外国人を見たのは初めて­なので、

ちょっと興味を持って見させてもらいました。

しかも日本語で話してくれたので内容も理解でしました。

なかなか良いこと言ってるじゃん！

これからも時々は、私みたいな英語が苦手な者にも解る「日本語ブ­ログ」も

お願いします。

とりあえず、「日本語で製作してくれて、ありがとう！」

サンキューベリーマッチ

[thegakuranman]

@8HOLYSUN ありがとうございます！これからも日本語のビデオを作って行きた­いと思っていますが、やっぱり字幕を作るのが時間掛かりますね。­まあ、でも頑張ります！自分の勉強にもなりますしね。

[GuyJdustNaka]

By the way, great video!! =) You are very open-minded and it sounds like you've learned a lot from Japan. Very good points. I'd like to make a proper response to your video at some point...but it will take awhile to practice my Japanese to say what I want to say =)

[ichigoaji]

wow !! so wonderful. And I am impressed by your level of Japanese.

[junsei624]

俺はthegakuranmanさんの意見に１００％、いや１０­０億％同意します。

日本の労働環境の悪さはまさに人権侵害そのものです。

[DrCOMPUT3R]

Good speech, and I totally agree with u.

u know it's ok to try to convey their rules in their own country, but what makes me mad is that soon we're working with a Japanese team (in our country) and u know what ! they're asking for business hours from 8 am to 9 pm !!! wt# !! I totally respect Japanese ppl, but they should act like humans once in a while! we've just graduated and they don't care.. they're such robots -_-

[bleach1st]

Good work man, that's a huge speech to blurt out there xD As someone who's in a pretty similar situation as you (studied for 8 years... just not in Japan atm xD) the only point I can pick at is intonation/accent which still sounds a English-like at points but it's still very good :D 頑張れ！

Anyway, I was just reading your a CIR right... is that possibly with the JET Programme? I'm just wondering ;D I wanna do it next year but I'm not sure whether my Japanese would be good enough... :|

[shirohige0826]

素晴らしい意見ですね！ただ、あまり人種にこだわり過ぎない方が­いいですよ。タイトルの「日本人になる事」というのが、とても違­和感を感じます。重要なのは、お互いに理解し合い、尊重しつつ、­自分も大切にすること。すべて合わせてしまっては自分という存在­意義が無くなってしまいますからね。素晴らしい動画です。

[painteddigital]

Secondly, I wanted to say that I feel like the issue you're dealing with is strictly limited to working in Japan. Having a foreign occupation, I never dealt with the difficulties you guys are talking about and I feel for you. That's something that always worried me, and I hope you can find a good solution.

[thegakuranman]

Thanks for your comments :) It's definitely true that as a foreigner, less is expected of you, but I've always strove to try and fit in the same as the people around me where possible. I think a great deal of it is showing you have the attitude and willingness to cooperate with the people around you.

[painteddigital]

@gakuranman. Your pronunciation was very good. Better than 95% of foreigners IMO.

To preface my comment, I lived in Japan for about a year as a missionary and I'm about to make some sweeping generalizations :)

I just wanted to point out two things. First, is that I agree that Japanese truly respect anyone who attempts to adopt their culture. They often expected much less out of me because I was a foreigner. At least trying to understand their culture really helps to make friends.

[t3hubern00b]

I am impressed

[Hikosaemon]

Hey man, great vid. And wow, your Japanese is seriously flawless. You should do more vlogs like this. Good points made, and in the end, I reached the conclusions that you state here. What I think is important to understand however is what you will go through sticking to a "minimum/no" overtime policy and why.

[Hikosaemon]

Your problems are on two fronts. 1st, if you do your bit and leave while team mates are still working on something, they will see you as abandoning them. 2nd is that leaving earlier than the expected time will create the view to your superior that you are a slacker, and that they haven't delegated work properly, which will result in crappy evaluations and getting dumped with extra work.

[Hikosaemon]

@Hikosaemon The key is "shinrai". A lot of people believe in forging friendship and trust through shared harship at work. Not doing zangyo is seen as abandoning your teammates and slacking off, and you lose shirai as a result. If you were ever to try claiming that a balanced life is a human right, your boss would point out that EVERYONE is entitled to the balance, not just you - you should be trying to help everyone leave early and not just focus on yourself.

[Hikosaemon]

@Hikosaemon It's powerful logic when you are confronted with it. Point is this: it isn't a "human right" to not do zangyo. It's a personal choice. The price of making that choice is loss of shinrai with coworkers who won't trust you or the quality of your work. Fear of losing shinrai is at the heart of what drives a lot of the crushing zangyo some people get trapped into a cycle of doing.

By the way, I'm not advocating that logic - I'm just highlighting what you are up against.

[acromel]

That's very helpful in understanding the motivation behind that behavior. The usual `group oriented' generalisation never really made a great deal of sense to me - but then it wouldn't do. Precisely because of the greater focus on self that `we', as Westerners have: I had a blind-spot to this.

It's fascinating to see a successful capitalist society with such a fundamentally socialist core. A price for everything though.

Thanks very much for your perspective.

[Hikosaemon]

Haha, it's nice to know that all these battle scars I have picked up can be of interest to someone else :)

Peace

[thegakuranman]

@Hikosaemon *Nods. I definitely understand the importance of building trust between you and co-workers. What I think though, is that there can be a trade off. Some days you are too busy to stay, and other times (especially at important events) you make the effort to do overtime. This way, I think/hope you can cultivate a level of trust and retain individual freedom. Of course, it will take Japanese workers to change their working style this before any dramatic changes happen...

[thegakuranman]

@Hikosaemon In a way, I think we can/should push a little on this area to try and show the different ways of living and working that can be had. I'm not advocating my Anglo-centric values as 'correct', but I do think both sides can learn from each other's working practices. There are undoubtedly many Japanese working practices that are very good and that I have yet to fully appreciate :)

[GuyJdustNaka]

@thegakuranman I think this is very important. Japanese people may not have opportunities to be exposed to these "other styles" and thus are missing out. The rationale for why other countries' workers don't necessarily need to work so many hours should especially be explained. Personally, this is the biggest problem I have with Japanese life, too, and I don't think it is a small problem. It's intrinsic to Japanese life, and I think it hurts a lot of non-work relationships, like family ones.

[GuyJdustNaka]

@Hikosaemon Wouldn't arguing with bosses that everyone IS entitled to the balance be a good starting point? For example, if workers have a good/stable life at home and with friends, they may be more productive at work. (Yet many Japanese people don't have this balance and may not spend so much time with their families, causing problems at home with spouses and children and negative family relationships).

[Hikosaemon]

@GuyJdustNaka The response is "you should ALWAYS be productive". There are not degrees, and personal stuff shouldn't interfere with doing your job. For example, marital problems would not be accepted as an excuse for poor quality work, even if it explains it. The difference is between working to live, which presupposes a need for balance, and living to work, which views time spent outside of work as frivilous. Two of my previous jobs took this view. Work comes first - other stuff later.

[Hikosaemon]

@GuyJdustNaka incidentally, no one ever says "family first" - that way of thinking just doesn't exist. People will use other excuses for time off or not working on weekends, but your family is almost never a legitimate reason to use to leave work. None of this applies to casual or part time work by the way, which is why a lot of young people are choosing to be low earning part time workers and not join companies like their dads...

[thegakuranman]

@GuyJdustNaka Thanks for your comments :) It's a tough topic to raise in Japan, but the younger people I have spoken to have been more receptive to the idea of a balanced work life than older people. Older people will generally agree the idea is good, but then never act on it. Another thing I see is that the younger workers find they must fit in with the company and other older workers. This often means they slowly begin to work more and more overtime and the terrible cycle continues :(

[GuyJdustNaka]

@Hikosaemon At the same time, whiling making a case for leaving work early, it would be important to make an obvious display of how you are committed to the company and coworkers. For example, showing to your supervisor what you worked on that day, what you excelled on, how you helped others and what you plan to do the next day. I think it's important to note that we can accomplish a lot in, say, 9 hours, and the same amount in 12 hours if you are idle for 3 hours. That 3 hours is wasteful.

[Hikosaemon]

@GuyJdustNaka I really don't want to discourage you from trying this, but if you ask cynical old Mr. Salariman what happens when you try this, here is how it goes down.

Japanese value "use of time" over "efficiency". So if you are given a task to do on Monday by Friday, submitting a perfect report on Wednesday would be seen as laziness. The point is that you never do anything just to the extent told, you do it to the extent humanly possible in the time allowed.

[Hikosaemon]

@GuyJdustNaka @Hikosaemon Another sad reality is that advertising that you can do "X" amount in 9 hours isn't recognized as worthwhile efficiency - it is recognized as the basis for allocating work on the basis of how much you can get done in an hour. It is up to you to use that extra three hours productively finding additional tasks to add to the value of what you produce. The result is people tend to allocate their effort over the expected time. Acceleration is frowned upon.

[thegakuranman]

@Hikosaemon Thanks!

[andreschu]

Japan isn't the only country with a completely different culture where westerners go to live and work. And I think it's easier to get accustomed to the japanese way of life than the muslim one (I live in the middle east).

Good video though, and it's always nice to see how other people share their experiences. Kudos!

[thegakuranman]

@andreschu Good point! I don't for a second that Japan alone is a very different place for Westerners to live and work, but I have little experience in other very different cultures, so I can't comment on them.

[andreschu]

thanks for taking the time to read AND reply to my, and all the other comments... And yes, I'm no expert in any culture, probably not even my own, unfortunately (and sometimes fortunately as well) the only way of gaining real insight into different cultures is experiencing them first hand, the good and the bad. :)

[EngrishIcan]

Michael-san, Thank you. thanks for constructive and kind vid.

>"On Becoming Japanese"

I'm interested in "Japan and the world's future" and "Japanese globalization".

>"overtime"

I was brought up to see that my father who works hard (He sacrifice his time) for family

So I think I reminds me of my working father.

[thegakuranman]

@EngrishIcan Thanks EngrishIcan. You raise a good point that working practices are probably linked to family ideals and watching the lifestyles of parents. Having said that, I have noticed that many of the Japanese students that go abroad tend to develop different ways of thinking and looking at work and life. Yet another big reason to encourage exchange programmes if one thinks internationalisation is way to go.

[EngrishIcan]

Michaelさんありがとうございます。建設的でやさしい動画­感謝致します。

私も日本の将来や国際化に関心がある一人です。

>日本人になる事

私も日本と世界の将来と国際化に関心がある一人です。

>残業と人権？？

私は、家族・社会のために自身を犠牲にして懸命に働く父の背中を­みて育ちました。

私はその面影を追っているのだと思います。

[thegakuranman]

@EngrishIcan ありがとうございます！これからも日本語のブログがんばります！

[youkeytube]

if you are the manager-level at the company, it will make sense though, or if you think you can die for the company, go ahead and work till 12AM, or live at the office, you will end up with "karo-shi".

[thegakuranman]

@youkeytube Thanks for the comments! Karoshi is a delicate topic, and I haven't come into contact with it enough yet to be able to provide any insight, although there are plenty of statistics and stories to reinforce the fact that excessive overtime does drive people to death.

[youkeytube]

But, it is unfortunate if the foreign people really think working long hours like real Japanese white-collar workers should be followed just because they want to know the culture.

[youkeytube]

I agree with the point that you shouldnt work over time much if you think the balance between work and your personal life isn't working out because you sacrifise ur personal time into your long working hours.

[Ido013]

Can't really add anything more than what I commented on Hiko-san video.

I wonder what kinds of job are more prone to those extended periods of overtime that are well known with Japanese culture..

[Hikosaemon]

@Ido013 Hey there - my first job in Japan was in contract IT, which is notorious for extreme overtime. It's also true that "sales" is a gruelling area to work in, especially in big trading companies. I think professions like medicine, accounting, law and so on are also traditionally big on overtime here, much as they are abroad. Other than that, it can also be very company and economic condition specific, I think.

Peace

[Hikosaemon]

I just thought of some more - publishing is a killer, as is architecture. Basically creative jobs that have a lot of people wanting to get in and not much of a supply of available jobs have terrible working conditions and I know people who have worked their way into hospital on low wages in those areas.

[thegakuranman]

@Hikosaemon Interesting point about different lines of work haivng different amounts of overtime. I think this is something to factor in when looking for jobs. Although not from personal experience, I can say that generally smaller/private companies seem to have more overtime than public jobs, although it really does seem to vary quite a lot from place and individual too...

[fuUuckCCP]

Nobody can "BECOME" a Japanese. Be yourself or Japanese will eat you.

Believe me, I knnow what I'm talking about. If you try to copy the japanese, they will hate you & eat your life.

[acromel]

Very well articulated I thought. I suppose it's tricky finding a balance without diving in. If the `extremes', West and East, haven't been fully experienced then it's not much of a balance. But, of course, we all have our limits - points past which we have no wish to explore.

A different social contract: hence the interest and fascination I think.

[thegakuranman]

@acromel Thanks. It's definitely one of the most challenging aspects I find living and working in Japan, but I'm optimistic a balance can be found!