We live in a system in which rich men are destined to always rule over the poor, as a structural flaw of the private business model. This has allowed successful business owners, often owing their success largely to their inheritance, to accumulate disproportionate wealth and influence. Now possessing wealth that rivals nations, they are able to purchase political leaders through bribes, or 'campaign contributions' and gifts, to lobby favors against the public interest for their profit
@Swordsage G'day... Well, the key is if the people in whatever society are Selfish, or Selfless. If the Individuals are Selfless then almost ANY Social Structure will work. If the Individuals are Selfish, then Any & All Systems fall to bits, in a Shitstorm of Corruption. The Grandparents borrowed YOUR Global Environmental-Surplus, and pissed it up against the wall. So, you're born into slavery, and tough shit..! Granny & Granpa had FUN.
what i think happens is well it's not simple. sometimes people who want power grab it by holding a revolution. they lead the revolution and wind up on the top when it wins. and then they show their true corruption. but thats not always what happens in revolutions. of course even if you do get a free society the institutions needed to govern draw people who want to abuse power. and the apathy sets in over time. as people get used to voting or whatever the system is.
@kitrana anyway to address your point. yeah i think there is a general move towards personal freedoms in the world. But i think it's fueled by the fact that "marked" rulers are for times when survival is on the line. and the world been generally though not entirely smoothly away from a survival mode sort of deal. wen your not under threat every day you start having more time to think and wanting to have a say in what happens in your life.
I submitted the wrong response, I meant to submit Free The Worker
Anyway, SwordSage the society I would like to see is a more free society with a healthy worker driven economy and workplace democracy. Worker Cooperatives could save our economy, if more people in America knew what they were and how they work. Better, Cooperatives could improve conditions for the workers themselves, in more ways than one.
One of the best presentations on Cooperatives can be found here.
I don't know enough of politics to have anything I can throw out there as what I would consider to be the best option, as I am just too ignorant of all the choices to be comfortable doing so BUT I do feel that I can say with certainty that political parties have got to go. It fosters too much of an us vs them mentality and sets the stage to have candidates liked or disliked by sheer association rather than their own merits or lack thereof.
@fckuvrymch I like how you put that. As far as I can tell, so many people are feeling that something has to change, no matter what their ideological persuasion is. It's like what Malcom X said when he talked about the different ideas he and other civil rights leaders had... "What you and I are for is freedom... We both got the same objective, we just got different ways of getting' at it."
I can't help but think of that statement when I think of what's going on today.
i think there is a constant trickle in the right direction, generally. i see more and more people coming to the realizations that many of us have over the last few years.
what i believe will happen ultimately is that many more will make changes in their personal lives through necessity, if not by choice, that will move us away from being self-indulgent consumers. i mean over and over again in history we see when the society doesnt work, it fails.
Now, the reason its semi is becuase its not controled by any one person, infact controled by all of you or a very large group of people, such as (In the case of america) Washington D.C (Again... the entire place, not just a small group)
Now, its a dictatorship but not one for your own purpose, like with a normal dictatorship the guy is powerhungry and wants the world in his own view, where this is more, people fight for others.
@HannibalBarca13 Yeah, that's the rub, isn't it? But look at it this way: the idiots are already discussing this and coming up with stupid "solutions" and "ideas". I think it's about time that the people with a little more thought have a go.
I don't think our problem is what system were using, our problem is the people.
The majority of people are not very good at critical thought, and I think that in itself is the biggest hurdle. The less susceptible people are to spin and scare-tactics, the less likely we are to make poor decisions in forming government. When you have a nation of people who know exactly what they want and how to get it, I guarantee you will have a government that represents the people...
...However, this is not that easy a task. most people these days have grown up on sensationalist media and advertising, which are generally the two major deciders in election outcomes and its hard to get people to break from it. But I believe as we become more educated, we become less vulnerable to these forms of manipulation, when we have a well educated populace those attempting to garner support will have to resort to actual discussion and debate, rather than clever TV advertising campaigns.
We're just going through different forms of government to find the best one.
So far the human race has gone through so many forms of rule.
We're trying to form the best rule to govern our selves.
The first ever rule was not that of humans. It was that of atoms, as far as we know right now that is.
Rules of attraction. Which of course leads to multi cell attraction which leads to multi cell organisms , Which leads to Alphas of a group leading, then alpha govs, etc.
i anticipate that 2012 will be very loud, as OWS and the TP start fighting in the streets as in the late 20s here and in Germany. most disagree, and I hope they're right. nevertheless, there is no current remake of the social contract that is agreed to by anybody outside these "ideologies". My opinion: Government should protect the People without violating their rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. I include social welfare in the phrase "protect the People".
Maybe I'm insane, but maybe the problem is that everyone is framing the question here as if there can only be one solution to the problems society is facing and all the possible solution's proponents must battle to the death to only one remains, as if we're in Highlander or something. Maybe the solution is that everyone can try their own solutions and see what works? Just a crazy thought.
Personally, I think we should have a meritocracy and that our leaders should be forced, by law or by sword, to take something equivalent to a college entrance exam, Constitutionally and historically focused. After that, I think they should have a mandatory 1 year observation period by trained psychiatrists. Too many sociopaths make it to the top of too many powerful places.
@kaindrg Exactly. The people that run this country with our current system are just the most rich and good looking people available, willing to take the pay cut.
-problem-
We live in a system in which rich men are destined to always rule over the poor, as a structural flaw of the private business model. This has allowed successful business owners, often owing their success largely to their inheritance, to accumulate disproportionate wealth and influence. Now possessing wealth that rivals nations, they are able to purchase political leaders through bribes, or 'campaign contributions' and gifts, to lobby favors against the public interest for their profit
FreeTheWorker 4 months ago
@Swordsage G'day... Well, the key is if the people in whatever society are Selfish, or Selfless. If the Individuals are Selfless then almost ANY Social Structure will work. If the Individuals are Selfish, then Any & All Systems fall to bits, in a Shitstorm of Corruption. The Grandparents borrowed YOUR Global Environmental-Surplus, and pissed it up against the wall. So, you're born into slavery, and tough shit..! Granny & Granpa had FUN.
WarblesOnALot 4 months ago
what i think happens is well it's not simple. sometimes people who want power grab it by holding a revolution. they lead the revolution and wind up on the top when it wins. and then they show their true corruption. but thats not always what happens in revolutions. of course even if you do get a free society the institutions needed to govern draw people who want to abuse power. and the apathy sets in over time. as people get used to voting or whatever the system is.
kitrana 4 months ago
@kitrana anyway to address your point. yeah i think there is a general move towards personal freedoms in the world. But i think it's fueled by the fact that "marked" rulers are for times when survival is on the line. and the world been generally though not entirely smoothly away from a survival mode sort of deal. wen your not under threat every day you start having more time to think and wanting to have a say in what happens in your life.
kitrana 4 months ago
I submitted the wrong response, I meant to submit Free The Worker
Anyway, SwordSage the society I would like to see is a more free society with a healthy worker driven economy and workplace democracy. Worker Cooperatives could save our economy, if more people in America knew what they were and how they work. Better, Cooperatives could improve conditions for the workers themselves, in more ways than one.
One of the best presentations on Cooperatives can be found here.
watch?v=neNwAZSBMb0
FreeTheWorker 4 months ago
In a Intelligent, non-egocentric, peaceful society, the best government is no government at all.
In this age of war, starvation and egotism the only governments that seem to be working are dictatorships, socialism and facism.
Pretty fuckin sad.
bluffed12 4 months ago
finally got to watch this. video response will come, i just need to find the time.
gothatfunk 4 months ago
I don't know enough of politics to have anything I can throw out there as what I would consider to be the best option, as I am just too ignorant of all the choices to be comfortable doing so BUT I do feel that I can say with certainty that political parties have got to go. It fosters too much of an us vs them mentality and sets the stage to have candidates liked or disliked by sheer association rather than their own merits or lack thereof.
dawn0293 4 months ago
i think it is beautiful the way that we are all unique individuals, yet somehow we have this common thread that its time for change.
we each have gifts, and we use those gifts to benefit others, rather than ourselves.
this common thread is weaving a new world slowly but surely.
fckuvrymch 4 months ago
@fckuvrymch I like how you put that. As far as I can tell, so many people are feeling that something has to change, no matter what their ideological persuasion is. It's like what Malcom X said when he talked about the different ideas he and other civil rights leaders had... "What you and I are for is freedom... We both got the same objective, we just got different ways of getting' at it."
I can't help but think of that statement when I think of what's going on today.
Swordsage 4 months ago
i agree it is necessary for us to keep on doing what we know is necessary, such as sharing ideas.
i mean it gives others confirmation that they are on the right path.
fckuvrymch 4 months ago
i think it goes against the universal law for human beings to live this way, so ultimately it will come back to center..
fckuvrymch 4 months ago
i think there is a constant trickle in the right direction, generally. i see more and more people coming to the realizations that many of us have over the last few years.
what i believe will happen ultimately is that many more will make changes in their personal lives through necessity, if not by choice, that will move us away from being self-indulgent consumers. i mean over and over again in history we see when the society doesnt work, it fails.
our consciences, it seems, are waking up.
fckuvrymch 4 months ago
@Thenewyorkcritic Got it. :) Gonna see if I can make my meager response later.
Swordsage 4 months ago
The problem we have atm is quite simle, The power is in a single hand, to sing it or to veto it
One line and one dollar, thats all it takes
Id like to take a line from a game right now
"Your mind is like a fortress, with its gates unbared and unguarded"
In other words, it easy to minipulate a single person, however PEOPLE, not so easy
Now you could argue that we kinda have that atm, however id like to point out i said a large group of people, not a small group
VegetaFH1 4 months ago
For me it would have to be a semi dictatorship
Now, the reason its semi is becuase its not controled by any one person, infact controled by all of you or a very large group of people, such as (In the case of america) Washington D.C (Again... the entire place, not just a small group)
Now, its a dictatorship but not one for your own purpose, like with a normal dictatorship the guy is powerhungry and wants the world in his own view, where this is more, people fight for others.
Do you get me?
VegetaFH1 4 months ago
Here we go! Bravo. Just what we need. Lets' go. You're on the money here. We need the dialogue.
RichardRoy2 4 months ago
@HannibalBarca13 Yeah, that's the rub, isn't it? But look at it this way: the idiots are already discussing this and coming up with stupid "solutions" and "ideas". I think it's about time that the people with a little more thought have a go.
Swordsage 4 months ago
I don't think our problem is what system were using, our problem is the people.
The majority of people are not very good at critical thought, and I think that in itself is the biggest hurdle. The less susceptible people are to spin and scare-tactics, the less likely we are to make poor decisions in forming government. When you have a nation of people who know exactly what they want and how to get it, I guarantee you will have a government that represents the people...
universalJok3r 4 months ago
...However, this is not that easy a task. most people these days have grown up on sensationalist media and advertising, which are generally the two major deciders in election outcomes and its hard to get people to break from it. But I believe as we become more educated, we become less vulnerable to these forms of manipulation, when we have a well educated populace those attempting to garner support will have to resort to actual discussion and debate, rather than clever TV advertising campaigns.
universalJok3r 4 months ago
We're just going through different forms of government to find the best one.
So far the human race has gone through so many forms of rule.
We're trying to form the best rule to govern our selves.
The first ever rule was not that of humans. It was that of atoms, as far as we know right now that is.
Rules of attraction. Which of course leads to multi cell attraction which leads to multi cell organisms , Which leads to Alphas of a group leading, then alpha govs, etc.
We're learning. IMO W best
mrx0066600 4 months ago
excellent video btw... you opened pandora's box here :)
etzel33 4 months ago
i anticipate that 2012 will be very loud, as OWS and the TP start fighting in the streets as in the late 20s here and in Germany. most disagree, and I hope they're right. nevertheless, there is no current remake of the social contract that is agreed to by anybody outside these "ideologies". My opinion: Government should protect the People without violating their rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. I include social welfare in the phrase "protect the People".
etzel33 4 months ago
Maybe I'm insane, but maybe the problem is that everyone is framing the question here as if there can only be one solution to the problems society is facing and all the possible solution's proponents must battle to the death to only one remains, as if we're in Highlander or something. Maybe the solution is that everyone can try their own solutions and see what works? Just a crazy thought.
Shezmu 4 months ago
@Shezmu To be honest, I also am prone to thinking that a "little bit of everything" might be worth look at here.
Swordsage 4 months ago
@Swordsage Yeah, it's not like the people who want fascism can't just slap a "please recto-scan me" sign on their backs. :p
Shezmu 4 months ago
Personally, I think we should have a meritocracy and that our leaders should be forced, by law or by sword, to take something equivalent to a college entrance exam, Constitutionally and historically focused. After that, I think they should have a mandatory 1 year observation period by trained psychiatrists. Too many sociopaths make it to the top of too many powerful places.
bamboo4tameshigiri 4 months ago
@bamboo4tameshigiri exactly because at this point 60% of the republicans are willing to say that jesus wrote the fuking constitution
kaindrg 4 months ago
@kaindrg Exactly. The people that run this country with our current system are just the most rich and good looking people available, willing to take the pay cut.
bamboo4tameshigiri 4 months ago
@kaindrg *LoL*
Thanks for giving me a good laugh tonight. I'm gonna have to find a way to use that line in a conversation. :b
Swordsage 4 months ago
Excellent protip.
bamboo4tameshigiri 4 months ago