Is faith delusional? It sure as hell is! Neither god nor satan exist. If you believe the bible to be true, YOU are delusional. The bible is as real as Harry Potter. People have been brainwashed for way too long. Think for yourself.
People dont need evidence...although they claim that they do want to see the evidence...thousands of scientists almost scream about the letal harm of smoking and what happens..do people stop smoking?..This is called pure ignorance for the ignorance sake...this is why Allah or God as you would prefer does not show himself to ignorant ones that manifest being the smartest and the most logical yet reducing the fact that their logic is not their self-made product and their system of thought as well.
Stop saying faith is believing without evidence that is blind faith or a leap of faith, go look it up in the dictionary, the first one is trust... What does Christianity have that is not evidence? PM me if anyone got questions I'll try to answer them and lets converse =)
Faith by its very defenition is dilusional. It's belief without evidence - logically equivalent to random belief. If there was any evidence we wouldn't need faith.
I see evolution as we started as almost perfect when created by our creator God and have evolved to be dumber and just less overall. God does work. Jesus is your payment for our penalty. My sin was paid for on the cross and in the court of heaven my Lawyer Jesus speaks to the Father judge for me when I sin. The court is stacked in my favor - lawyers dad is the judge and my lawyer loves me so much he died for me so I could live. You too - how awesome..
Wow... astounding. It's the same old nonsense. A lot of rhetoric, a lot of 'personal experiences', and a lot of slamming secular people who disagree with the superstition, and are concerned about the conflict religions create... but absolutely no evidence.
...oh and um.. you are all idiots if you seriously think of buying this crap.. please people don't waste your money on this.. waste your time sure.. but not ur money.. not in this economic recession.. buy booze instead.. :) cheers
people.. please their is no need to use such foul language.. but then again it is Youtube.. not the brightest place to have a descent conversation with someone.. so i will contribute to the community by simply saying.. heyy i'm an atheist and if i saw you guys at a bar i wouldn't mind WASTING my money on a round of beers for everybody :) cheers
Atheists, my sons and daughters are queens and kings, but you, heathens, are wicked, harlots, whores, fornicators, blasphemers, immorals, delusional, poisonous/venomous/toxic , hypocrites etc Strong, hu? Such is the world without God
what? how am i wicked? im not practicing "atheism" or selling my self to other people.. blasphemers..well the truth does hurt doesn't it. immorals? i am more moral than than any god you present :). hypocrites? how? when i hurt a part of my body i don't blame god.. quit being such a fucking child and wake up.. its all a big scam.. you are giving your money to people who want to be rich..
@Airlightf what truth? the fact that natural selection has a lot to do with us being on this planet.. understand that and you'll see how simple it is to survive this long in this planet.. again quit being a fucking child who thinks theirs a boogy man in the closet.. there is none.. no god sir/ma'am please. live your life to the fullest geez..
@mmmodafoca Christians don't think there's a boogeyman in the closet. Nor do they care about the theory of natural selection, so don't go assuming things.
... They think there's some guy in the sky who watches everything they do and judges them, and will burn them forever and ever and ever if they disagree with him or break his rules... and he loves them.
@TempleOfSin he's dead why would he care? or for that matter how could he scream?? anywho if you liked Mr. Carlin check out Jim Jeffries 9 minute rant on youtube about religion. In my opinion New awesome anti-religion rant :)
@mmmodafoca It's another homage to one of Carlin's jokes that people sometimes make when speaking about him... Carlin was talking about how people sometimes say "I'm sure they're up there, smiling down at us" in order to be more at ease with someone's passing. He turned that on its head by asking how we know they're up there, and not down there. "I'm sure they're down there, screaming up at us."
It seems surreal to me, that we, evolved beings, have the need to discuss the existence of god. Our time should be spent solving major problems, not wasting time, money, resources, and brain power on superstition.
@ivlfounder It's almost funny that you have the nerve to mis-interpret what I said, instead it's just sad. I did not say anyone was less human than anyone else. I said people who still believe superstitions from 2000 years ago are ignorant.
You we're referring to atheists exclusively then when you wrote " It seems surreal to me, that we, evolved beings, have the need to discuss the existence of god."?
@ivlfounder Ok I am going to use simple words. ALL humans on planet earth are evolved, That covers atheists, catholics, muslims, hindus, african tribesman, inuits, ALL humans. WE evolved humans meaning all humans on the planet are wasting time, money, resources, and education on superstitions, mainly religious superstitions. Stop trying to translate what I say, Stop trying to find an alternate meaning in what I say. I use very specific words to mean exactly what they are meant to mean.
When in public atheists describe atheists as a group with terms like enlightened, superior, or evolved it makes me wonder what terms they use to describe atheists in private.
@ivlfounder I don't recall referring to myself as an atheist. Regardless of my beliefs or lack thereof, we should not be spending so much time and energy on something without evidence to support it. Imagine if we, the human race, spend as much time, and resources, on proving the existence of unicorns. It is ridiculous, and a waste.
@auroradamien But there is evidence to support the existence of God. If it was so blatantly obvious that He didn't exist most people would believe in some form of deity. Besides it's not like humans have anything better to do.
what evidence? and don't bring the soul argument because our "personalities" are only unique because of how the brain works.. you change a little bit of it and bamm you get your self a schizophrenic.. miracles are a suspension of the laws of physics,thermodynamics and other scientific domains.. which their haven't been any. so please be specific what evidence?
@mmmodafoca Well disregarding your question begging, invalid assumptions about miracles and duelism, there is much historically evidence for Jesus and the miracles he performed. In addition to that the standard model of the big bang posits a universe that appears ex nihilo. However, the second law of thermodynamics should make that impossible. Either the 2nd law is wrong and energy is being created ( Possibly by God) or the 2nd is right and someone (also possibly a God) placed the energy here.
@lockdown260 i did.. i was a kid once.. i believed in santa clause, the tooth fairy, etc. but as an adult things have to have an explanation.. and i'd rather believe the people (scientist) who happen to give the explanation that most rationally appeals to me. and believing in them isn't blind faith* cause i could perform every little experiment they do to prove to my self that what they are saying has some merit but im not cause thats lame!!
@mmmodafoca Well , santa and fairies have nothing to do with God. The fact that you use them comparatively in this context does nothing but show your lack of ability to critically think on the matter. All religious faith isn't blind. If you really looked into the matter you would know that. That aside ANYONE who makes a truth claim about reality bears a burden of proof. You say "no God". Why should I believe you? Do you have any proof?
you are exactly right!.. im not saying NO GOD PERIOD.. i am have a lack of believing in the god you think is true!.. and don't think you are special im saying no evidence to prove YOUR god, the Islamic god, hindu GODS!.. no evidence! and what do you mean santa clause and the fairies have nothing to do with this.. you can't prove they don't exist so therefore they must exist! THAT IS YOUR ENTIRE ARGUMENT AND ITS A COMPLETE FALLACY!!
@mmmodafoca It's not my argument. The reason , I don't believe because there is evidence against his existence( e.g. no factory @ the north pole , the logistical problems with his delivery schedule, etc.) Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence so your whole santa remark is invalid & irrelevant . As for evidence for my God, just read a history book. Jesus and his works has been thoroughly recorded in history and that's all the proof you need.
oh ok.. so in a history book you say that "god/jebus/holy-whatever" has their works shown.. ok lets take a specific exampe: in the american civil war.. what side was god on? or what exactly did he do? My bet.. from his past actions or in his "character" he was in favor of the south.. he supported slavery and what have you.. yet he made the north win...why?? i mean let me interpret it differently god was just trying to contradict himself showing he was a whole new THING..right??
@mmmodafoca Is that your best argument? Citing a war that isn't in the Bible and has no significant Biblical relation? That's a strawman at best. Don't waste my time. Give me a real argument against my faith or don't bother replying to me again.
@lockdown260 but.. i was just following your logic.. you didn't mention only using the bible as a history book.. come on.. even you have to admit thats dumb. and as weak as that argument was it still stands.. what side was god really on?? pro-slavery or pro-equality? i could give a fuck about your faith.. it's yours KEEP IT TO YOUR SELF.. in the privacy of your own home.. don't let your dilusion let you make important decisions that involve the SOCIETY!! and im done pwning you!.. laterz.
@mmmodafoca YOU WEREN'T FOLLOWING ANY LOGIC. All you did was spout uneducated bs that shows you clearly don't know what you are talking about.
1) I never said only used the Bible as history, I said research Jesus's life, (who is recorded in secular history , something you obviously didn't know).
2) "Keep it to yourself" Why? You don't keep your BS to yourself. You can't even support your beliefs intelligently and you have the nerve to say I'M delusional?
@lockdown260 You said he was spouting BS and didn't know what he was talking about. Yet you are the one who keeps claiming that there is evidence for the existence of your deity. I do not want to hear an ontological argument or theories, show me evidence.
@TempleOfSin "I do not want to hear an ontological argument or theories, show me evidence." Is is said that a rational man is convinced by arguments and even an irrational man is convinced by proof(s). So tell me what do you count as evidence? Do you expect me to take a picture of God with my phone? Or perhaps you want me to get God's autograph.
@TempleOfSin Now if you examine the Bible's claims about history, and Jesus you find that they pretty reliable and match with what contemporary scholars and historians say about the time periods. What's more is considering the circumstances of Jesus's death (the empty tomb, mass appearances after death, etc.) does make Christianity very plausibe (see William lane Craig for a more in depth explanation) if not definitely true. But let me guess none of it counts as evidence.
@TempleOfSin The Bible's historical accuracy and the divine nature of Jesus (with in turn would itself be proof of the Christian God's existence) respectively.
@lockdown260 I used another example previously of Clive Cussler's novels. His novels contain a lot of historical accuracy, but would you assert that characters and their exploits in his novels describe real people and real events? Historical accuracy does not necessarily mean that everything described in a document is real.
What do we really know about Jesus? Historically, someone named Jesus of Nazareth may have existed. MANY people of that name may have existed...
@lockdown260 However, the man described was also a social and political extremist. How do you propose to test all of the anecdotal (the stories are second hand accounts) for accuracy? How do we know that all of the claims made were genuine and not made as propaganda? These questions do not have reliable answers and the answers that are suggested cannot be used to prove divinity.
@TempleOfSin "How do you propose to test all of the 'stories' for accuracy?" It's called stop being lazy and do some dang research yourself (or at least look up others research on the matter). It's quite obvious that nothing I can say within 500 chars will convince you that I'm right. And if you are simply just going to dismiss the evidence and arguments w/o examining them then there is no use talking about this because you don't really want evidence.
@TempleOfSin There no lack of evidence on my part. I provided plenty. It's your claims that lack evidence.
E.g. -"Things that exist are empirically real." - How foolish. I guess thoughts, emotions don't exist huh.
Behind all of your empty rhetoric, you are either too lazy or too dishonest to examine the evidence on the issue of God's existence. You expect humanity to just accept your claims w/o any evidence that you are right. Yet you criticize theists for supposedly doing the same thing?
@lockdown260 You know what? You are presenting the cosmological argument, but the PARTICULAR argument you're using, the way it's worded, is the Kalam cosmological argument. While you've been pouting I've been cross-referencing it.
1. Everything that begins to exist has a cause.
2. The universe began to exist.
3. Therefore, the universe must have a cause.
But here's the thing, what the bloody HELL does that have to do with god??
@TempleOfSin I'm not interested in ontological debates because they're a waste of my damn time. Ontology is a made-up human concept that has no real relevance for anything practical. Things that exist are empirically real. Things that don't exist lack sound supporting evidence. I don't just reject Christianity I reject all faith based claims. They're silly and it's time for us to grow up as a species.
@mmmodafoca 2) cont.- Yet you somehow feel that you beliefs are better suited you decision making in society? Please! If anything people who fail at intellectual thought and reason (i.e. you ) should refrain from letting their beliefs interfere with there decision making.
@TempleOfSin Argument from ignorance is a logical fallacy. Consider what the minimum evidence should be and then proceed to show evidence that the minimum has not been met using the preponderance of evidence standard. Example: Santa should have a complex at the north pole. There are no building found to manufacture toys at the north pole. Thus no Santa...
@rusty2029 It's not an argument from ignorance. Evidence of absence is evidence of absence, but not proof of absence. Sagen got it wrong but it's a matter of semantics.
It's nice to see that you fundamentally agree with me and acknowledge that a god is unlikely to exist because there is no minimum of evidence to support the existence of a god.
@TempleOfSin There is a wealth of evidence that God interacts and changes peoples lives. I have empirically witnessed this and it is an objective reality. So there is evidence and a sorties of clues and logical deductions that point to a First Cause and Necessary Being as a properly basic belief. This evidence is sufficient. Oh and if God is unlikely you should have at least an ontological argument to present. If you want to convince people talk about evidence and not your ignorance.
@lockdown260 Speaking for myself, my proof for the nonexistence of any deity is an overwhelming lack of proof. There is no evidence for the existence of your deity or any others. Now prove me wrong and find some.
@ivlfounder Just chiming inhere... I've never ever heard atheists describe themselves as enlightened, superior, or evolved (atheism does not make one a de facto supporter of evolution. I'm not sure what you think the word evolved means). I have however heard religious believers describe themselves as enlightened on many occasions.
What 'eye witness' evidence is there about evolution. Yet this theory is held as fact by those who have never seen the transformation. What they have is 'effect then they seek to find a cause namely evolution.' Christians go further and say that God is the first cause uncaused. Anything that is 'matter' must have an origin...so if there was primordial soup- where did it come from, where did the objects come from that banged so big it created a perfectly ordered universe?
Random,I can't lose.If there is no god then I'am in the same position you,however,if there is a god I'am in a better position.I will use my happy delusion to pray for you.God or delusion bless you!
galaxydreams, I am not sure you understood what I was alluding to. Look up on wikipedia "Russel's teapot" and try to understand what is being said there. Also, I am not sure what you're talking about when you say "at least christians accept Christ based on the evidence...." because for any deity there is none, if not any evidence. Russel's teapot should then explain the rest. Also, from what I can see, I may be wrong, you have surrounded yourself with one idea and not been open to others.
thanks so much for the link. I totally disagree with you regarding having no evidence of a supernatural God giving us what we have in the bible. There is plenty if you seek it. See my channel for details. People believe things based on evidence, anything less is the definition of being not open to others.
I used to be an atheist, and I have a very deep knowledge of historical religion. being open to others ideas is what lead me to Christ.
galaxydreams I looked at your channel and there are a lot of videos so I am not sure which ones in particular you would like me to see for evidence for God. And believe me I have sought the truth as honestly as possible and have thus far derived that there is no God. (I might also add that I had been a christian most of my life). The more I think about things, and critically analyze both theists and atheist arguments, it makes more sense to me that there is no God.
galaxydreams I also noticed a lot of ravi zacharias videos posted on your youtube channel. I do not find his logic to be satisfying as a lot of it has its own problems. I have listened to a lot of his youtube apologetic style sermons, I have also seen him in person and asked him a very difficult question in front of the audience during question period and I received a red herring. To be honest, I was extremely disappointed of his response, but continue searching the truth.
rumbashane it was "How can intelligent design account for the paired primate chromosomes found in humans?" His answer was simply talking about abiogenesis and how it could not have happened by chance. He told me to read a book by Stephen C. Meyer called "Signature in the Cell". Note that this book simply talks about the origin of the cell and has little to do with evolution, which my question was primarily aimed at. So he gave me an answer that I did not even ask. I have bought the book though.
galaxydreams For me, being open to the possibility of being wrong is what allowed me to break away from my faith, a faith that my family still holds and it is difficult for them to accept that, nevertheless faith is something I find impossible to rationalize. I would also like to add that I am extremely familiar with christianity as I had sincerely spent most of my life believing it and trying to follow "God". I am open to evidence, point me to a video and I will respond to it for you
@TheLuckySaGe Sorry it took so long for me to get back to you, my world has been a little nuts lately. Gotta love drama lol :PAnyways, Check this out when u get a chance. I should have been more specific about what vids to check out. That was my bad. This lecture is long, about an hour and 20 minutes. Totally worth looking at. /watch?v=NWawVUZg3Es Let me know what you think!! Talk to ya soon.
Yeah.. did... little evidence, nothing but here-say in fact but on balance some itinerant teacher probably did exist. However, zero evidence for the miracles or divinity of Jesus, therefore, we can dismiss it easily as nothing more than tribal folklore.
yeah true. Not much evidence of Jesus' miracles other than witness account. The thing that got me was all the prophecy about Jesus thousands/hundreds of years before He existed. Also, God obviously thinks faith is important. Which makes sense if you give people free will. prophecy is a supernatural phenomena, and in my opinion, is enough to convince me that Jesus is who He said He is. And since He is, and I believe it, I am not seen as evil in God's eyes any longer. That's a gift I accept :)
We don't even have any witness accounts, nothing but here-say written years after the supposed events by those who were not there. Prophecy written years before apply pretty much how cultures wish to read them and can be made to fit requirements, so therefore of no account. Faith is for those who do not seek the truth and a tool used by religion to stop people questioning obvious fallacies. Sorry there is simply not enough evidence to support the god/jesus hypothesis.
Yes, we have written witness accounts hun. Its a historical fact that we do. Now, you do not have to believe anything about anything. You do not have to have faith, You dont HAVE to do anything. Free will is what it is.
My faith is based on evidence and based on a large amount of research that I personally have done. You can think I am some uneducated hick from north Carolina who doeant know anything about anything.. just because I have faith in Jesus Christ. Go for it. But its not true lol
satan does not bless! he Destroys,he perverts,lies,steals,blinds,accused. anyone following him will have the same demise and destruction--Revelation 20:10
@gideon0104 Let's talk about things that he hasn't done. He hasn't razed cities, he hasn't committed acts of genocide, and he hasn't drowned nearly everything and everyone on the planet because he was angry. He hasn't promoted infanticide, pedophilia, slavery, and rape. He hasn't really done much of anything, but these are all things that the god of the bible is guilty of. Satan is much maligned, but according to your book, your god is the true destroyer.
full of fecal matter really? they sounded "pretty profound" to me...so as my name so kindly puts i pose a question to you or anyone else believer or not...can someone "Prove" to me with empirical evidence...i like that word it's so pretty and distinguishing...that a god, I.D and such does or does not exist?
So you admit to not having any answers? Didn't think so, nobody knows yes or no of whether there is a god. A delusion is formed by asserting yes when no answer is known and the question formed to avoid falsification. Have a nice day, I'll think for you.
"Delusion: A fixed false belief that is resistant to reason or confrontation with actual fact. Does that remind us of anything?"
-
Yes. It reminds me of atheism. Despite the overwhelming amount of evidence for the existence of God, atheism claims that no Intelligent Mind exists outside of the created order. My worldview, on the other hand, is supported by scientific evidence and philosophical truths that make my faith solid and facts-based, not delusional like atheism.
@AgApE010 Okay. What scientific evidence, and what philosophical truths? Show me. Just claiming that there's evidence doesn't mean a thing without being able to demonstrate it.
I know just claiming it doesn't mean a thing, but I wasn't about to proceed further until you responded. I speak of such as the Cosmological Argument for God's existence, stated as follows:
-Everything that begins to exist has a cause
-The universe began to exist
-Therefore, the universe has a Cause.
-
This argument is in agreement with modern science by way of the Big Bang model of the universe, which also insists that the universe began to exist ex nihilo.
@AgApE010 Okay, so why do you insist that the cause had to be a deity who looked just like us (according to your faith, ie god made us in his image. We're a species of ape.) and that the cause must be the deity of your faith?
You're mistaken. God doesn't look like us. Being made in the imageo Deo is speaking of our being made as moral creatures who have an ability to seek and perceive divine things in distinction to the animal kingdom. God is spirit, say the Scriptures. That means He is immaterial. And this indeed would be necessary of God insomuch as the Creator of time, space, and matter must transcend these things in order to be timeless (eternal), space-less (omni-present), and immaterial (Spirit).
I can be sure that the universe began to exist because that is where modern science points us, supported by the strongest theories such as the Big Bang theory and Einstein's theory of Relativity. Indeed this is the field of physicists; does that mean that we cannot learn these things as well?? It's science; it's knowable. You can study these things for yourself just like any field of science.
@AgApE010 Sure, we can learn these things, but you're about as likely to find real answers to these quandaries in a bronze-age book of stories as you are to find a living jellyfish in the middle of the mojave desert.
Umm, ok. Except I didn't mention the Bible when speaking of the Big Bang and the beginning of the universe (even though I could since the Bible teaches that the universe began to exist). Instead, I mentioned widely accepted and credible theories to back up my claims. Based on your response, I think this conversation is done. You can no longer say that there is no evidence for God. So now go and seek Him so that you won't continue to live in darkness. Use your mind; search Him out.
@AgApE010 So...the bible teaches that the universe began to exist, and you don't know how the universe came into existence, so it must be god? You really think that the kalam cosmological argument is compelling proof that a god exists?
That still doesn't provide any evidence for the existence of a god, it's just a supposition without any evidence or insight.
"so...the bible teaches that the universe began to exist, and you don't know how the universe came into existence, so it must be god?"
-
No. I listed the theories for you that actually point us to the universe not only having a beginning but having that beginning ex nihilo, meaning "out of nothing." So either nothingness caused the universe or God caused the universe. What are your other options? This is why I said atheism is delusional. I hope you're beginning to see that.
@AgApE010 Well, considering that we haven't discovered all of the answers yet, I can very honestly say I don't know what 'caused' the universe. If your only answer is god, you're clearly in the same boat.
@AgApE010 This 'god of the gaps' nonsense is really irritating. I was hoping you'd present something a little more compelling than that old argument... "The universe exists, and it has to have a cause so it must be the Christian god." Umm no. >.<
Temple, you need to learn to pay more attention. I didn't argue FOR the God of the Gaps argument. The G of the G argument is presented by Dawkins in his book "The God Delusion." I can't in good conscience explain it to you right now since you are obviously far too unstable to think critically about anything.
@AgApE010 Your answer IS a 'god of the gaps' argument. In effect you're saying "The universe must have a beginning, and nobody knows the details, so I'm postulating that the god of my faith must have designed it."
You're wrong again. As I said and proved, the EVIDENCE ITSELF POINTS US to God as the answer. So we're not using God as a filler of a gap in our knowledge. Rather, God is the conclusion to an observation of the evidence. Thus far, I've had to repeat myself like this on several of my points. That is why I said that you are far too unstable to think critically since you are bent on fighting against believing in God rather than in thinking clearly.
@AgApE010 1. whatever begins must have a cause. 2. The universe began to exist. 3. Therefore, the Universe must have a cause.
This is clear, irrefutable proof, based on evidence, that the flying spaghetti monster must have created the universe. Repent now, and you will end up in the heaven with the good beer volcano and strippers who don't have VD. If you disagree, you obviously can't think critically and you'll have to answer to his divine noodliness one day.
The FSM is a material being and is thus disqualified from being the creator of matter. Further, there is not evidence for such a deity all throughout human history and writings. The FSM had its beginning in the ramblings of Bobby Henderson in his response to Intelligent Design being taught in schools. There is no basis or foundation for equating the FSM with God.
@AgApE010 Bobby Henderson is the prophet of the FSM. He is just as qualified to be a prophet for that deity as the prophets of your religion are to be a prophet for your god.
Anyway that's beside the point. I'm trying to demonstrate how silly the argument is.
You ignored my response that refuted your attempt to equate belief in FSM with belief in God. You are determined to fight against believing in God rather than on searching out the truth and thinking logically over the issues. If you do not have any mature, intelligent comments to make so that we can have an enjoyable and intellectually stimulating discussion, there is no reason for me to be a part of this discussion for any longer.
@AgApE010 I ignored it because my choice of a deity is beside the point. I said FSM, but I might as well have said Allah or Vishnu or Pazuzu. The whole POINT is that it does not prove or disprove your god. If you're going to make that argument from a general deistic position, okay, but the argument doesn't support a specific deity. Please try and keep up with this.
The only other plausible deity, given the evidence and qualifications, is Allah, as that deity is the only other timeless, space-less, and immaterial deity you listed that bears all the necessary attributes to be referred to, theologically, as "God". However, the Koran bears witness that Allah gave the Bible as well, and the Bible and Koran disagree with one another theologically. Thus there is a contradiction in Islam's theology and thus their deity. Therefore it does not exist.
@AgApE010 God is a 'plausible' answer for anything until the real answers are discovered. Lightning? God's wrath. Rain? God. Fire? God. Eclipses? God.
I reiterate, just because something is not understood, that does not imply a holy cause.
I never argued for rain or fire as being the result of God's wrath or anything of the like. I also never stated that because something is not understood that this means God did it. On the contrary, I REPEATEDLY, from the VERY BEGINNING of our discussion, showed how I am not arguing from this God of the Gaps. But since you continually misrepresent me, and indeed do not so much as consider my arguments before responding, there is no point in continuing this discussion. Take care.
@AgApE010 No, don't you run off with your tail between your legs because you can't present a sound argument.
I'm going to play devils advocate here, and give you the benefit of the doubt. Let's say I've missed something.
Everything that exists must have a beginning. Okay. Therefore, the universe must have a beginning. alright, fine. Now here's where we run into trouble. On what grounds do you assert this beginning must be attributed to a divine creator?
Fine, in spite of you I will answer your question. As we said, everything that exists has a beginning. The universe had a beginning. Furthermore, Big Bang theory points out that all time, space, and matter came from a state of nothingness since time, space, and matter all had their origins in the Big Bang itself. Therefore, whatever caused the Big Bang must be outside of the realms of time, space, matter (and thus be eternal, omni-present, and immaterial)...
...The cause must also be of unthinkable power since it could cause such an explosion out of no pre-existing matter or energy. It must also be personal since this cause brought about a universe both containing and supporting lifeforms (a vague, unconscious energy source could not do this and it would mathematically impossible for life to happen by chance). Furthermore, the Cosmic Background Radiation (the temperature ripples and afterglow of the Big Bang explosion)...
@AgApE010 No. You don't understand Big Bang theory. The big bang did not come from nothing. It came from nothing compared to the somethings we know now. The big bang came from a singularity.
"it came from nothing compared to the something we know now"
-
Right. And the "somethings" we know now are time, space, and matter. If you can think of another cause other than God that is timeless, space-less, immaterial, powerful, and has the capacity to choose to make a universe with ridiculously complex life and make a universe that can support that life, I would love to hear it.
...(the temperature ripples and afterglow of the Big Bang explosion) discovered by Robert Wilson and Arno Penzias show us that the very explosion of the Big Bang was precisely controlled in order to allow matter to congregate to form galaxies. Had the explosion been less in magnitude, the universe would have collapsed back in on itself. Had the explosion been greater, the matter would have dissipated and galaxies would not have formed....
contd....This is hard evidence of intelligence behind the explosion. From this argument, we conclude that either a Being that is timeless, space-less, immaterial, powerful, and personal caused the Big Bang explosion, or the Big Bang explosion was caused by nothing, which is utterly impossible.
And what is this singularity, that you seem to think overthrows creatio ex nihilo (creation out of nothing), since it is obviously not time, not space, and not matter?
@AgApE010 It doesn't matter, considering that the manifestation of our universe is not evidence for a deity in any case. Just because we don't have all the answers, it doesn't mean that the answer is a designer. That's a leap of faith.
I gave you the reasons and evidence why our universe does indeed bear witness to God. Again, you ignoring them or refusing to believe does not change any of these facts.
-
"I'm sort of getting tired of having to correct you..."
-
Lol! Right, because YOU have been correcting ME. Uh-huh. Now whose running with their tail between their legs? Take a hike, pal. I won't push you into continuing to dialog with me. I strongly recommend, however, that you reflect on the evidence. Take care
@AgApE010 I guess I don't have anything to reflect on, then, because you have presented no evidence. You have provided no evidence that proves the universe requires a creator. Take a hike yourself, or give me some actual evidence instead of opinions.
@AgApE010 I strongly recommend you know what you're talking about before you attempt to discuss it. Try being honest with YOURSELF for a change, and really think about whether your arguments make sense.
I really feel sorry for you. Your faith seems to have sapped your rationale. That's very irritating because I know you're smarter than that.
@AgApE010 What evidence? Do you know what evidence is? How can you say you have any evidence when you dont have a "godless" universe to compare it to. Enjoy your magic fairy tales.
That's an absurd objection. With that line of reasoning I can say that we cannot know if logic is knowable since we don't have a universe where it is unknowable. You just made that up and decided to use it on YouTube, didn't you?
@AgApE010 Why is it absurd? What absurd is that your claim is that the universe is so "ordered" that it must imply a god. I could just as easily claim its completely disorderd. Logic is dependent on whats called axiomatic truths. Things we have to take for granted to get anywhere... They dont apply to God though. Too bad for you.
@AgApE010 play of language sometimes can be confusing. "creatio ex nihilo" i think is better explain as creation out of non-existing materials. because by simple logic, nothing will only produce nothing.
Hi. That was exactly my point. So because of the fact that all the evidence today points towards the Big Bang coming forth from a state of nothingness, it is illogical to believe in spontaneous creation (as Hawkings' newest theory suggest, although I'm sure he'll change his mind again soon as he always does) or anything of the sort.
-
Aren't we saying the same thing (creation out of nothing/creation out of non-existing materials) since even those materials had to be created ex nhilio?
@AgApE010 At this juncture, I feel it's necessary to divulge that this is one of my big issues with religion. If we just accept god as the origin of the universe, what impetus would we have to search for real answers? Religion provides a lot of easy, false answers to complicated questions. The kalam cosmological argument is a perfect example of this.
"If we accept god as the origin of the universe, what impetus would we have to search for real answers?"
-
Firstly, if you come to your senses and accept God as the cause of the universe, God IS the real answer. That conclusion, however, does not promote intellectual laziness. You seem to forget that all the Fathers of Science were theists, and many still are today. Accepting God as the creator doesn't mean we do not continue to search for answers in all fields of science.
Your "big issue" with Christianity is your sin. You've been presented with undeniable truths that point to the existence of God, even the God of the Bible. You've been shown that modern science is in agreement with theism. Your objections have been refuted. There is no reason for a thinking person, at this point, to continue to deny God's existence. However, due to your heart and its own desires, you refuse to believe. God will want an accounting of you for your hardness of heart.
@AgApE010 Are you going to provide any evidence or a compelling argument for your god or your religion, or are you just going to continue maligning me?
Claiming that god fits into the creation of the universe because we haven't divulged an answer for the beginning of the universe is not a compelling argument. It's just a guess.
"Are you going to provide any evidence or a compelling argument for your god, or are you going to continue maligning me?"
-
What slander! Are you not ashamed to tell such lies? I have spoken to you in a most mature manner and did not once speak any evil of you. Further, I presented my evidence to you all throughout this conversation, and you respond with asking if I will provide any evidence. How can any rational person bear to dialog any further with such a person as yourself?
Is faith delusional? It sure as hell is! Neither god nor satan exist. If you believe the bible to be true, YOU are delusional. The bible is as real as Harry Potter. People have been brainwashed for way too long. Think for yourself.
DrugstoreCFH 3 weeks ago
People dont need evidence...although they claim that they do want to see the evidence...thousands of scientists almost scream about the letal harm of smoking and what happens..do people stop smoking?..This is called pure ignorance for the ignorance sake...this is why Allah or God as you would prefer does not show himself to ignorant ones that manifest being the smartest and the most logical yet reducing the fact that their logic is not their self-made product and their system of thought as well.
questnet100 2 months ago
Stop saying faith is believing without evidence that is blind faith or a leap of faith, go look it up in the dictionary, the first one is trust... What does Christianity have that is not evidence? PM me if anyone got questions I'll try to answer them and lets converse =)
samuellis 10 months ago
Faith by its very defenition is dilusional. It's belief without evidence - logically equivalent to random belief. If there was any evidence we wouldn't need faith.
myironlungca 1 year ago
@myironlungca Lol, how much ignorance could you spot in that comment, haha. x)
TheisticThinker 7 months ago
:49 based on what evidence? Of course science cannot explain everything yet. Does that mean we must make up something to answer the unanswered?
gotitans999 1 year ago
I see evolution as we started as almost perfect when created by our creator God and have evolved to be dumber and just less overall. God does work. Jesus is your payment for our penalty. My sin was paid for on the cross and in the court of heaven my Lawyer Jesus speaks to the Father judge for me when I sin. The court is stacked in my favor - lawyers dad is the judge and my lawyer loves me so much he died for me so I could live. You too - how awesome..
ems2n21 1 year ago
Wow... astounding. It's the same old nonsense. A lot of rhetoric, a lot of 'personal experiences', and a lot of slamming secular people who disagree with the superstition, and are concerned about the conflict religions create... but absolutely no evidence.
TempleOfSin 1 year ago
...oh and um.. you are all idiots if you seriously think of buying this crap.. please people don't waste your money on this.. waste your time sure.. but not ur money.. not in this economic recession.. buy booze instead.. :) cheers
mmmodafoca 1 year ago
people.. please their is no need to use such foul language.. but then again it is Youtube.. not the brightest place to have a descent conversation with someone.. so i will contribute to the community by simply saying.. heyy i'm an atheist and if i saw you guys at a bar i wouldn't mind WASTING my money on a round of beers for everybody :) cheers
mmmodafoca 1 year ago
Atheists, my sons and daughters are queens and kings, but you, heathens, are wicked, harlots, whores, fornicators, blasphemers, immorals, delusional, poisonous/venomous/toxic , hypocrites etc Strong, hu? Such is the world without God
Airlightf 1 year ago
what? how am i wicked? im not practicing "atheism" or selling my self to other people.. blasphemers..well the truth does hurt doesn't it. immorals? i am more moral than than any god you present :). hypocrites? how? when i hurt a part of my body i don't blame god.. quit being such a fucking child and wake up.. its all a big scam.. you are giving your money to people who want to be rich..
mmmodafoca 1 year ago
@mmmodafoca The truth hurts you.
Airlightf 1 year ago
@Airlightf what truth? the fact that natural selection has a lot to do with us being on this planet.. understand that and you'll see how simple it is to survive this long in this planet.. again quit being a fucking child who thinks theirs a boogy man in the closet.. there is none.. no god sir/ma'am please. live your life to the fullest geez..
mmmodafoca 1 year ago
@mmmodafoca Christians don't think there's a boogeyman in the closet. Nor do they care about the theory of natural selection, so don't go assuming things.
... They think there's some guy in the sky who watches everything they do and judges them, and will burn them forever and ever and ever if they disagree with him or break his rules... and he loves them.
... Lol.
TempleOfSin 1 year ago
@TempleOfSin ...i see someone is a fan of george carlin.. next time why don't you place "'s when quoting him. geezzz..
mmmodafoca 1 year ago
@mmmodafoca Yeah I was wondering if you'd catch it. ^_^
RIP George. I'm sure he's down there... screaming up at us. ;)
TempleOfSin 1 year ago
@TempleOfSin he's dead why would he care? or for that matter how could he scream?? anywho if you liked Mr. Carlin check out Jim Jeffries 9 minute rant on youtube about religion. In my opinion New awesome anti-religion rant :)
mmmodafoca 1 year ago
@mmmodafoca It's another homage to one of Carlin's jokes that people sometimes make when speaking about him... Carlin was talking about how people sometimes say "I'm sure they're up there, smiling down at us" in order to be more at ease with someone's passing. He turned that on its head by asking how we know they're up there, and not down there. "I'm sure they're down there, screaming up at us."
TempleOfSin 1 year ago
@Airlightf I see, and how do you intend to support those claims?
Remember, around one in ten Americans is an atheist, but they represent less than one percent of the prison population.
TempleOfSin 1 year ago
google Doe's Account, its mindblowing.
Candypain1 1 year ago
It seems surreal to me, that we, evolved beings, have the need to discuss the existence of god. Our time should be spent solving major problems, not wasting time, money, resources, and brain power on superstition.
auroradamien 2 years ago
@auroradamien
It's almost funny that you have the nerve to consider those who believe in God to be less human than you.
ivlfounder 1 year ago
@ivlfounder It's almost funny that you have the nerve to mis-interpret what I said, instead it's just sad. I did not say anyone was less human than anyone else. I said people who still believe superstitions from 2000 years ago are ignorant.
auroradamien 1 year ago
@auroradamien
You we're referring to atheists exclusively then when you wrote " It seems surreal to me, that we, evolved beings, have the need to discuss the existence of god."?
ivlfounder 1 year ago
@ivlfounder Ok I am going to use simple words. ALL humans on planet earth are evolved, That covers atheists, catholics, muslims, hindus, african tribesman, inuits, ALL humans. WE evolved humans meaning all humans on the planet are wasting time, money, resources, and education on superstitions, mainly religious superstitions. Stop trying to translate what I say, Stop trying to find an alternate meaning in what I say. I use very specific words to mean exactly what they are meant to mean.
auroradamien 1 year ago
@auroradamien
Oh Good.
When in public atheists describe atheists as a group with terms like enlightened, superior, or evolved it makes me wonder what terms they use to describe atheists in private.
ivlfounder 1 year ago
@ivlfounder I don't recall referring to myself as an atheist. Regardless of my beliefs or lack thereof, we should not be spending so much time and energy on something without evidence to support it. Imagine if we, the human race, spend as much time, and resources, on proving the existence of unicorns. It is ridiculous, and a waste.
auroradamien 1 year ago
@auroradamien
Do you how unusual humankind is?
ivlfounder 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@auroradamien
Oh dear let me ask that again:
Do you KNOW how unusual humankind is?
ivlfounder 1 year ago
@auroradamien But there is evidence to support the existence of God. If it was so blatantly obvious that He didn't exist most people would believe in some form of deity. Besides it's not like humans have anything better to do.
lockdown260 1 year ago
what evidence? and don't bring the soul argument because our "personalities" are only unique because of how the brain works.. you change a little bit of it and bamm you get your self a schizophrenic.. miracles are a suspension of the laws of physics,thermodynamics and other scientific domains.. which their haven't been any. so please be specific what evidence?
mmmodafoca 1 year ago
@mmmodafoca Well disregarding your question begging, invalid assumptions about miracles and duelism, there is much historically evidence for Jesus and the miracles he performed. In addition to that the standard model of the big bang posits a universe that appears ex nihilo. However, the second law of thermodynamics should make that impossible. Either the 2nd law is wrong and energy is being created ( Possibly by God) or the 2nd is right and someone (also possibly a God) placed the energy here.
lockdown260 1 year ago
@lockdown260 Evidence doesn't exist just because you say it does. PROVE IT! Show us the evidence!
TempleOfSin 1 year ago
@mmmodafoca Please feel free to look this up yourself as I doubt a YT argument with me would change your mind about anything.
lockdown260 1 year ago
@lockdown260 i did.. i was a kid once.. i believed in santa clause, the tooth fairy, etc. but as an adult things have to have an explanation.. and i'd rather believe the people (scientist) who happen to give the explanation that most rationally appeals to me. and believing in them isn't blind faith* cause i could perform every little experiment they do to prove to my self that what they are saying has some merit but im not cause thats lame!!
mmmodafoca 1 year ago
@mmmodafoca Well , santa and fairies have nothing to do with God. The fact that you use them comparatively in this context does nothing but show your lack of ability to critically think on the matter. All religious faith isn't blind. If you really looked into the matter you would know that. That aside ANYONE who makes a truth claim about reality bears a burden of proof. You say "no God". Why should I believe you? Do you have any proof?
lockdown260 1 year ago
you are exactly right!.. im not saying NO GOD PERIOD.. i am have a lack of believing in the god you think is true!.. and don't think you are special im saying no evidence to prove YOUR god, the Islamic god, hindu GODS!.. no evidence! and what do you mean santa clause and the fairies have nothing to do with this.. you can't prove they don't exist so therefore they must exist! THAT IS YOUR ENTIRE ARGUMENT AND ITS A COMPLETE FALLACY!!
mmmodafoca 1 year ago
@mmmodafoca It's not my argument. The reason , I don't believe because there is evidence against his existence( e.g. no factory @ the north pole , the logistical problems with his delivery schedule, etc.) Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence so your whole santa remark is invalid & irrelevant . As for evidence for my God, just read a history book. Jesus and his works has been thoroughly recorded in history and that's all the proof you need.
lockdown260 1 year ago
oh ok.. so in a history book you say that "god/jebus/holy-whatever" has their works shown.. ok lets take a specific exampe: in the american civil war.. what side was god on? or what exactly did he do? My bet.. from his past actions or in his "character" he was in favor of the south.. he supported slavery and what have you.. yet he made the north win...why?? i mean let me interpret it differently god was just trying to contradict himself showing he was a whole new THING..right??
mmmodafoca 1 year ago
@mmmodafoca Is that your best argument? Citing a war that isn't in the Bible and has no significant Biblical relation? That's a strawman at best. Don't waste my time. Give me a real argument against my faith or don't bother replying to me again.
lockdown260 1 year ago
@lockdown260 but.. i was just following your logic.. you didn't mention only using the bible as a history book.. come on.. even you have to admit thats dumb. and as weak as that argument was it still stands.. what side was god really on?? pro-slavery or pro-equality? i could give a fuck about your faith.. it's yours KEEP IT TO YOUR SELF.. in the privacy of your own home.. don't let your dilusion let you make important decisions that involve the SOCIETY!! and im done pwning you!.. laterz.
mmmodafoca 1 year ago
@mmmodafoca YOU WEREN'T FOLLOWING ANY LOGIC. All you did was spout uneducated bs that shows you clearly don't know what you are talking about.
1) I never said only used the Bible as history, I said research Jesus's life, (who is recorded in secular history , something you obviously didn't know).
2) "Keep it to yourself" Why? You don't keep your BS to yourself. You can't even support your beliefs intelligently and you have the nerve to say I'M delusional?
lockdown260 1 year ago
@lockdown260 You said he was spouting BS and didn't know what he was talking about. Yet you are the one who keeps claiming that there is evidence for the existence of your deity. I do not want to hear an ontological argument or theories, show me evidence.
TempleOfSin 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@TempleOfSin "I do not want to hear an ontological argument or theories, show me evidence." Is is said that a rational man is convinced by arguments and even an irrational man is convinced by proof(s). So tell me what do you count as evidence? Do you expect me to take a picture of God with my phone? Or perhaps you want me to get God's autograph.
lockdown260 1 year ago
@lockdown260 *it is said
lockdown260 1 year ago
@TempleOfSin Now if you examine the Bible's claims about history, and Jesus you find that they pretty reliable and match with what contemporary scholars and historians say about the time periods. What's more is considering the circumstances of Jesus's death (the empty tomb, mass appearances after death, etc.) does make Christianity very plausibe (see William lane Craig for a more in depth explanation) if not definitely true. But let me guess none of it counts as evidence.
lockdown260 1 year ago
@lockdown260 For what, and in what context, specifically, should each of these different things be evidence for?
TempleOfSin 1 year ago
@TempleOfSin The Bible's historical accuracy and the divine nature of Jesus (with in turn would itself be proof of the Christian God's existence) respectively.
lockdown260 1 year ago
@lockdown260 I used another example previously of Clive Cussler's novels. His novels contain a lot of historical accuracy, but would you assert that characters and their exploits in his novels describe real people and real events? Historical accuracy does not necessarily mean that everything described in a document is real.
What do we really know about Jesus? Historically, someone named Jesus of Nazareth may have existed. MANY people of that name may have existed...
TempleOfSin 1 year ago
@lockdown260 However, the man described was also a social and political extremist. How do you propose to test all of the anecdotal (the stories are second hand accounts) for accuracy? How do we know that all of the claims made were genuine and not made as propaganda? These questions do not have reliable answers and the answers that are suggested cannot be used to prove divinity.
TempleOfSin 1 year ago
@TempleOfSin "How do you propose to test all of the 'stories' for accuracy?" It's called stop being lazy and do some dang research yourself (or at least look up others research on the matter). It's quite obvious that nothing I can say within 500 chars will convince you that I'm right. And if you are simply just going to dismiss the evidence and arguments w/o examining them then there is no use talking about this because you don't really want evidence.
lockdown260 1 year ago
@lockdown260 Don't blame me for the lack of evidence to support your claims, bub.
TempleOfSin 1 year ago
@TempleOfSin There no lack of evidence on my part. I provided plenty. It's your claims that lack evidence.
E.g. -"Things that exist are empirically real." - How foolish. I guess thoughts, emotions don't exist huh.
Behind all of your empty rhetoric, you are either too lazy or too dishonest to examine the evidence on the issue of God's existence. You expect humanity to just accept your claims w/o any evidence that you are right. Yet you criticize theists for supposedly doing the same thing?
lockdown260 1 year ago
@lockdown260 You know what? You are presenting the cosmological argument, but the PARTICULAR argument you're using, the way it's worded, is the Kalam cosmological argument. While you've been pouting I've been cross-referencing it.
1. Everything that begins to exist has a cause.
2. The universe began to exist.
3. Therefore, the universe must have a cause.
But here's the thing, what the bloody HELL does that have to do with god??
TempleOfSin 1 year ago
@TempleOfSin I'm not interested in ontological debates because they're a waste of my damn time. Ontology is a made-up human concept that has no real relevance for anything practical. Things that exist are empirically real. Things that don't exist lack sound supporting evidence. I don't just reject Christianity I reject all faith based claims. They're silly and it's time for us to grow up as a species.
TempleOfSin 1 year ago
@mmmodafoca 2) cont.- Yet you somehow feel that you beliefs are better suited you decision making in society? Please! If anything people who fail at intellectual thought and reason (i.e. you ) should refrain from letting their beliefs interfere with there decision making.
lockdown260 1 year ago
@lockdown260 Absence of evidence IS evidence of absence.
TempleOfSin 1 year ago
@TempleOfSin Argument from ignorance is a logical fallacy. Consider what the minimum evidence should be and then proceed to show evidence that the minimum has not been met using the preponderance of evidence standard. Example: Santa should have a complex at the north pole. There are no building found to manufacture toys at the north pole. Thus no Santa...
rusty2029 1 year ago
@rusty2029 It's not an argument from ignorance. Evidence of absence is evidence of absence, but not proof of absence. Sagen got it wrong but it's a matter of semantics.
It's nice to see that you fundamentally agree with me and acknowledge that a god is unlikely to exist because there is no minimum of evidence to support the existence of a god.
TempleOfSin 1 year ago
@TempleOfSin There is a wealth of evidence that God interacts and changes peoples lives. I have empirically witnessed this and it is an objective reality. So there is evidence and a sorties of clues and logical deductions that point to a First Cause and Necessary Being as a properly basic belief. This evidence is sufficient. Oh and if God is unlikely you should have at least an ontological argument to present. If you want to convince people talk about evidence and not your ignorance.
rusty2029 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@TempleOfSin
"Absence of evidence IS evidence of absence." , "There is no evidence for the existence of your deity or any others. "
Where's the evidence that those statements are true?
lockdown260 1 year ago
@lockdown260 Speaking for myself, my proof for the nonexistence of any deity is an overwhelming lack of proof. There is no evidence for the existence of your deity or any others. Now prove me wrong and find some.
TempleOfSin 1 year ago
@ivlfounder Just chiming inhere... I've never ever heard atheists describe themselves as enlightened, superior, or evolved (atheism does not make one a de facto supporter of evolution. I'm not sure what you think the word evolved means). I have however heard religious believers describe themselves as enlightened on many occasions.
TempleOfSin 1 year ago
@TempleOfSin
I've delt with atheists that have called themselves all three things.
What should frighten you is the attempt by atheists to rewrite the English language to aid them.
ivlfounder 1 year ago
@ivlfounder I don't follow. Elaboration please?
TempleOfSin 1 year ago
@TempleOfSin
Some Faith haters* have actually started calling themselves "brights" hows that for insane?
* Not all atheists are jerks. In fact I have no idea what % of them are.
What's more some non atheists hate theism more than some atheists.
The technical name for these people is anti-theists but "faith hater" fits them better.
ivlfounder 1 year ago
What 'eye witness' evidence is there about evolution. Yet this theory is held as fact by those who have never seen the transformation. What they have is 'effect then they seek to find a cause namely evolution.' Christians go further and say that God is the first cause uncaused. Anything that is 'matter' must have an origin...so if there was primordial soup- where did it come from, where did the objects come from that banged so big it created a perfectly ordered universe?
areid78 2 years ago
@bibliognosthere I couldn't agree more. Brilliant man of God.
FallingByTheWayside 2 years ago
Random,I can't lose.If there is no god then I'am in the same position you,however,if there is a god I'am in a better position.I will use my happy delusion to pray for you.God or delusion bless you!
Breedoe 2 years ago
your right, i guess i should believe in an orbiting teapot between mars and earth
TheLuckySaGe 2 years ago
I hope u have evidence to believe that? At least Christians accept Christ based on the evidence....
galaxydreams 2 years ago
galaxydreams, I am not sure you understood what I was alluding to. Look up on wikipedia "Russel's teapot" and try to understand what is being said there. Also, I am not sure what you're talking about when you say "at least christians accept Christ based on the evidence...." because for any deity there is none, if not any evidence. Russel's teapot should then explain the rest. Also, from what I can see, I may be wrong, you have surrounded yourself with one idea and not been open to others.
TheLuckySaGe 2 years ago
thanks so much for the link. I totally disagree with you regarding having no evidence of a supernatural God giving us what we have in the bible. There is plenty if you seek it. See my channel for details. People believe things based on evidence, anything less is the definition of being not open to others.
I used to be an atheist, and I have a very deep knowledge of historical religion. being open to others ideas is what lead me to Christ.
galaxydreams 2 years ago
post 1
galaxydreams I looked at your channel and there are a lot of videos so I am not sure which ones in particular you would like me to see for evidence for God. And believe me I have sought the truth as honestly as possible and have thus far derived that there is no God. (I might also add that I had been a christian most of my life). The more I think about things, and critically analyze both theists and atheist arguments, it makes more sense to me that there is no God.
TheLuckySaGe 2 years ago
post 2
galaxydreams I also noticed a lot of ravi zacharias videos posted on your youtube channel. I do not find his logic to be satisfying as a lot of it has its own problems. I have listened to a lot of his youtube apologetic style sermons, I have also seen him in person and asked him a very difficult question in front of the audience during question period and I received a red herring. To be honest, I was extremely disappointed of his response, but continue searching the truth.
TheLuckySaGe 2 years ago
May I ask what was the question you asked Ravi?
rumbashane 2 years ago
rumbashane it was "How can intelligent design account for the paired primate chromosomes found in humans?" His answer was simply talking about abiogenesis and how it could not have happened by chance. He told me to read a book by Stephen C. Meyer called "Signature in the Cell". Note that this book simply talks about the origin of the cell and has little to do with evolution, which my question was primarily aimed at. So he gave me an answer that I did not even ask. I have bought the book though.
TheLuckySaGe 2 years ago
post 3
galaxydreams For me, being open to the possibility of being wrong is what allowed me to break away from my faith, a faith that my family still holds and it is difficult for them to accept that, nevertheless faith is something I find impossible to rationalize. I would also like to add that I am extremely familiar with christianity as I had sincerely spent most of my life believing it and trying to follow "God". I am open to evidence, point me to a video and I will respond to it for you
TheLuckySaGe 2 years ago
@TheLuckySaGe Sorry it took so long for me to get back to you, my world has been a little nuts lately. Gotta love drama lol :PAnyways, Check this out when u get a chance. I should have been more specific about what vids to check out. That was my bad. This lecture is long, about an hour and 20 minutes. Totally worth looking at. /watch?v=NWawVUZg3Es Let me know what you think!! Talk to ya soon.
~Tonya♥
galaxydreams 2 years ago
What evidence?
shashintokyo 2 years ago
@shashintokyo look it up. its not hard to do. seek the Truth and you will find it brother :)
galaxydreams 2 years ago
Yeah.. did... little evidence, nothing but here-say in fact but on balance some itinerant teacher probably did exist. However, zero evidence for the miracles or divinity of Jesus, therefore, we can dismiss it easily as nothing more than tribal folklore.
shashintokyo 2 years ago
yeah true. Not much evidence of Jesus' miracles other than witness account. The thing that got me was all the prophecy about Jesus thousands/hundreds of years before He existed. Also, God obviously thinks faith is important. Which makes sense if you give people free will. prophecy is a supernatural phenomena, and in my opinion, is enough to convince me that Jesus is who He said He is. And since He is, and I believe it, I am not seen as evil in God's eyes any longer. That's a gift I accept :)
galaxydreams 2 years ago
We don't even have any witness accounts, nothing but here-say written years after the supposed events by those who were not there. Prophecy written years before apply pretty much how cultures wish to read them and can be made to fit requirements, so therefore of no account. Faith is for those who do not seek the truth and a tool used by religion to stop people questioning obvious fallacies. Sorry there is simply not enough evidence to support the god/jesus hypothesis.
shashintokyo 2 years ago
Yes, we have written witness accounts hun. Its a historical fact that we do. Now, you do not have to believe anything about anything. You do not have to have faith, You dont HAVE to do anything. Free will is what it is.
My faith is based on evidence and based on a large amount of research that I personally have done. You can think I am some uneducated hick from north Carolina who doeant know anything about anything.. just because I have faith in Jesus Christ. Go for it. But its not true lol
galaxydreams 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
yes....the definition of "delusion" is:
Belief in God. (or tooth fairies/unicorns for that matter)
RandomSenselessActs 2 years ago
NO!! it's the other way around! without it you're worse than delusional!
gideon0104 2 years ago
satan does not bless! he Destroys,he perverts,lies,steals,blinds,accused. anyone following him will have the same demise and destruction--Revelation 20:10
gideon0104 2 years ago
@gideon0104 Let's talk about things that he hasn't done. He hasn't razed cities, he hasn't committed acts of genocide, and he hasn't drowned nearly everything and everyone on the planet because he was angry. He hasn't promoted infanticide, pedophilia, slavery, and rape. He hasn't really done much of anything, but these are all things that the god of the bible is guilty of. Satan is much maligned, but according to your book, your god is the true destroyer.
TempleOfSin 1 year ago
full of fecal matter really? they sounded "pretty profound" to me...so as my name so kindly puts i pose a question to you or anyone else believer or not...can someone "Prove" to me with empirical evidence...i like that word it's so pretty and distinguishing...that a god, I.D and such does or does not exist?
QUESTIONATORO 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
these guys are full of shit
Stuphynil 2 years ago
YES!!!!!!!!!!!!
GodMarley666 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Fuck preaching, fuck religion, fuck god.
raoskaos 2 years ago
debate then
COWARD
Mistrias 2 years ago
I can debate you but my every debate(as will with you) comes to an ad hominem, metaphores or strawman arguments.
Evidence...
raoskaos 2 years ago
DEBATE WITH THE PERSON IN this video
Mistrias 2 years ago 5
God Bless You
goosejoy20 2 years ago
Satan bless me.
raoskaos 2 years ago
I still say God Bless You....peace be with you
goosejoy20 2 years ago
The question of this video was not answered. Default position YES
GodMarley666 2 years ago
To answer your question in brief:
"Is Faith Delusional?"
Yep
datRock 2 years ago
TO ANSWER your Answer
is you just have dinied your exist
but your answer is still there
Mistrias 2 years ago
wait, that doesn't even make any sense ... translation, please
datRock 2 years ago
who told u to make any sense?
understand me?
answer your self =.=
Mistrias 2 years ago
So you admit to not having any answers? Didn't think so, nobody knows yes or no of whether there is a god. A delusion is formed by asserting yes when no answer is known and the question formed to avoid falsification. Have a nice day, I'll think for you.
datRock 2 years ago
Haleluyah
amen
Nobody knows ^_^
Mistrias 2 years ago
Can you define "delusion"?
AgApE010 2 years ago
@AgApE010 Delusion: A fixed false belief that is resistant to reason or confrontation with actual fact.
Does that remind us of anything?
TempleOfSin 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@TempleOfSin "Delusion: A fixed false belief that is resistant to reason or confrontation with actual fact.
Does that remind us of anything?" Atheism.
lockdown260 1 year ago
@TempleOfSin
-
"Delusion: A fixed false belief that is resistant to reason or confrontation with actual fact. Does that remind us of anything?"
-
Yes. It reminds me of atheism. Despite the overwhelming amount of evidence for the existence of God, atheism claims that no Intelligent Mind exists outside of the created order. My worldview, on the other hand, is supported by scientific evidence and philosophical truths that make my faith solid and facts-based, not delusional like atheism.
AgApE010 1 year ago
@AgApE010 Okay. What scientific evidence, and what philosophical truths? Show me. Just claiming that there's evidence doesn't mean a thing without being able to demonstrate it.
TempleOfSin 1 year ago
@TempleOfSin
-
I know just claiming it doesn't mean a thing, but I wasn't about to proceed further until you responded. I speak of such as the Cosmological Argument for God's existence, stated as follows:
-Everything that begins to exist has a cause
-The universe began to exist
-Therefore, the universe has a Cause.
-
This argument is in agreement with modern science by way of the Big Bang model of the universe, which also insists that the universe began to exist ex nihilo.
AgApE010 1 year ago
@AgApE010 Okay, so why do you insist that the cause had to be a deity who looked just like us (according to your faith, ie god made us in his image. We're a species of ape.) and that the cause must be the deity of your faith?
TempleOfSin 1 year ago
@TempleOfSin
-
You're mistaken. God doesn't look like us. Being made in the imageo Deo is speaking of our being made as moral creatures who have an ability to seek and perceive divine things in distinction to the animal kingdom. God is spirit, say the Scriptures. That means He is immaterial. And this indeed would be necessary of God insomuch as the Creator of time, space, and matter must transcend these things in order to be timeless (eternal), space-less (omni-present), and immaterial (Spirit).
AgApE010 1 year ago
@AgApE010 Also how can you even be so sure that the universe has a beginning or an end? This seems to be a topic best addressed by a physicist.
TempleOfSin 1 year ago
@TempleOfSin
-
I can be sure that the universe began to exist because that is where modern science points us, supported by the strongest theories such as the Big Bang theory and Einstein's theory of Relativity. Indeed this is the field of physicists; does that mean that we cannot learn these things as well?? It's science; it's knowable. You can study these things for yourself just like any field of science.
AgApE010 1 year ago
@AgApE010 Sure, we can learn these things, but you're about as likely to find real answers to these quandaries in a bronze-age book of stories as you are to find a living jellyfish in the middle of the mojave desert.
TempleOfSin 1 year ago
@TempleOfSin
-
Umm, ok. Except I didn't mention the Bible when speaking of the Big Bang and the beginning of the universe (even though I could since the Bible teaches that the universe began to exist). Instead, I mentioned widely accepted and credible theories to back up my claims. Based on your response, I think this conversation is done. You can no longer say that there is no evidence for God. So now go and seek Him so that you won't continue to live in darkness. Use your mind; search Him out.
AgApE010 1 year ago
@AgApE010 So...the bible teaches that the universe began to exist, and you don't know how the universe came into existence, so it must be god? You really think that the kalam cosmological argument is compelling proof that a god exists?
That still doesn't provide any evidence for the existence of a god, it's just a supposition without any evidence or insight.
TempleOfSin 1 year ago
@TempleOfSin
-
"so...the bible teaches that the universe began to exist, and you don't know how the universe came into existence, so it must be god?"
-
No. I listed the theories for you that actually point us to the universe not only having a beginning but having that beginning ex nihilo, meaning "out of nothing." So either nothingness caused the universe or God caused the universe. What are your other options? This is why I said atheism is delusional. I hope you're beginning to see that.
AgApE010 1 year ago
@AgApE010 Well, considering that we haven't discovered all of the answers yet, I can very honestly say I don't know what 'caused' the universe. If your only answer is god, you're clearly in the same boat.
TempleOfSin 1 year ago
@AgApE010 This 'god of the gaps' nonsense is really irritating. I was hoping you'd present something a little more compelling than that old argument... "The universe exists, and it has to have a cause so it must be the Christian god." Umm no. >.<
TempleOfSin 1 year ago
@TempleOfSin
-
Temple, you need to learn to pay more attention. I didn't argue FOR the God of the Gaps argument. The G of the G argument is presented by Dawkins in his book "The God Delusion." I can't in good conscience explain it to you right now since you are obviously far too unstable to think critically about anything.
AgApE010 1 year ago
@AgApE010 Your answer IS a 'god of the gaps' argument. In effect you're saying "The universe must have a beginning, and nobody knows the details, so I'm postulating that the god of my faith must have designed it."
TempleOfSin 1 year ago
@TempleOfSin
-
"In effect, you're saying..."
-
You're wrong again. As I said and proved, the EVIDENCE ITSELF POINTS US to God as the answer. So we're not using God as a filler of a gap in our knowledge. Rather, God is the conclusion to an observation of the evidence. Thus far, I've had to repeat myself like this on several of my points. That is why I said that you are far too unstable to think critically since you are bent on fighting against believing in God rather than in thinking clearly.
AgApE010 1 year ago
@AgApE010 1. whatever begins must have a cause. 2. The universe began to exist. 3. Therefore, the Universe must have a cause.
This is clear, irrefutable proof, based on evidence, that the flying spaghetti monster must have created the universe. Repent now, and you will end up in the heaven with the good beer volcano and strippers who don't have VD. If you disagree, you obviously can't think critically and you'll have to answer to his divine noodliness one day.
TempleOfSin 1 year ago
@TempleOfSin
-
The FSM is a material being and is thus disqualified from being the creator of matter. Further, there is not evidence for such a deity all throughout human history and writings. The FSM had its beginning in the ramblings of Bobby Henderson in his response to Intelligent Design being taught in schools. There is no basis or foundation for equating the FSM with God.
AgApE010 1 year ago
@AgApE010 Bobby Henderson is the prophet of the FSM. He is just as qualified to be a prophet for that deity as the prophets of your religion are to be a prophet for your god.
Anyway that's beside the point. I'm trying to demonstrate how silly the argument is.
TempleOfSin 1 year ago
@TempleOfSin
-
You ignored my response that refuted your attempt to equate belief in FSM with belief in God. You are determined to fight against believing in God rather than on searching out the truth and thinking logically over the issues. If you do not have any mature, intelligent comments to make so that we can have an enjoyable and intellectually stimulating discussion, there is no reason for me to be a part of this discussion for any longer.
AgApE010 1 year ago
@AgApE010 I ignored it because my choice of a deity is beside the point. I said FSM, but I might as well have said Allah or Vishnu or Pazuzu. The whole POINT is that it does not prove or disprove your god. If you're going to make that argument from a general deistic position, okay, but the argument doesn't support a specific deity. Please try and keep up with this.
TempleOfSin 1 year ago
@TempleOfSin
-
The only other plausible deity, given the evidence and qualifications, is Allah, as that deity is the only other timeless, space-less, and immaterial deity you listed that bears all the necessary attributes to be referred to, theologically, as "God". However, the Koran bears witness that Allah gave the Bible as well, and the Bible and Koran disagree with one another theologically. Thus there is a contradiction in Islam's theology and thus their deity. Therefore it does not exist.
AgApE010 1 year ago
@AgApE010 God is a 'plausible' answer for anything until the real answers are discovered. Lightning? God's wrath. Rain? God. Fire? God. Eclipses? God.
I reiterate, just because something is not understood, that does not imply a holy cause.
TempleOfSin 1 year ago
@TempleOfSin
-
I never argued for rain or fire as being the result of God's wrath or anything of the like. I also never stated that because something is not understood that this means God did it. On the contrary, I REPEATEDLY, from the VERY BEGINNING of our discussion, showed how I am not arguing from this God of the Gaps. But since you continually misrepresent me, and indeed do not so much as consider my arguments before responding, there is no point in continuing this discussion. Take care.
AgApE010 1 year ago
@AgApE010 No, don't you run off with your tail between your legs because you can't present a sound argument.
I'm going to play devils advocate here, and give you the benefit of the doubt. Let's say I've missed something.
Everything that exists must have a beginning. Okay. Therefore, the universe must have a beginning. alright, fine. Now here's where we run into trouble. On what grounds do you assert this beginning must be attributed to a divine creator?
TempleOfSin 1 year ago
@TempleOfSin
-
Fine, in spite of you I will answer your question. As we said, everything that exists has a beginning. The universe had a beginning. Furthermore, Big Bang theory points out that all time, space, and matter came from a state of nothingness since time, space, and matter all had their origins in the Big Bang itself. Therefore, whatever caused the Big Bang must be outside of the realms of time, space, matter (and thus be eternal, omni-present, and immaterial)...
-
contd
AgApE010 1 year ago
@TempleOfSin
-
...The cause must also be of unthinkable power since it could cause such an explosion out of no pre-existing matter or energy. It must also be personal since this cause brought about a universe both containing and supporting lifeforms (a vague, unconscious energy source could not do this and it would mathematically impossible for life to happen by chance). Furthermore, the Cosmic Background Radiation (the temperature ripples and afterglow of the Big Bang explosion)...
-
contd
AgApE010 1 year ago
@AgApE010 No. You don't understand Big Bang theory. The big bang did not come from nothing. It came from nothing compared to the somethings we know now. The big bang came from a singularity.
TempleOfSin 1 year ago
@TempleOfSin
-
"it came from nothing compared to the something we know now"
-
Right. And the "somethings" we know now are time, space, and matter. If you can think of another cause other than God that is timeless, space-less, immaterial, powerful, and has the capacity to choose to make a universe with ridiculously complex life and make a universe that can support that life, I would love to hear it.
AgApE010 1 year ago
@TempleOfSin
-
...(the temperature ripples and afterglow of the Big Bang explosion) discovered by Robert Wilson and Arno Penzias show us that the very explosion of the Big Bang was precisely controlled in order to allow matter to congregate to form galaxies. Had the explosion been less in magnitude, the universe would have collapsed back in on itself. Had the explosion been greater, the matter would have dissipated and galaxies would not have formed....
-
contd
AgApE010 1 year ago
@TempleOfSin
-
contd....This is hard evidence of intelligence behind the explosion. From this argument, we conclude that either a Being that is timeless, space-less, immaterial, powerful, and personal caused the Big Bang explosion, or the Big Bang explosion was caused by nothing, which is utterly impossible.
AgApE010 1 year ago
@AgApE010 Like I just told you, the big bang was not caused by nothing. It was caused by a singularity.
TempleOfSin 1 year ago
@TempleOfSin
-
And what is this singularity, that you seem to think overthrows creatio ex nihilo (creation out of nothing), since it is obviously not time, not space, and not matter?
AgApE010 1 year ago
@AgApE010 It doesn't matter, considering that the manifestation of our universe is not evidence for a deity in any case. Just because we don't have all the answers, it doesn't mean that the answer is a designer. That's a leap of faith.
TempleOfSin 1 year ago
@AgApE010 I'm sort of getting tired of having to correct you. If you're really interested in talking about this, please try to educate yourself.
TempleOfSin 1 year ago
@TempleOfSin
-
I gave you the reasons and evidence why our universe does indeed bear witness to God. Again, you ignoring them or refusing to believe does not change any of these facts.
-
"I'm sort of getting tired of having to correct you..."
-
Lol! Right, because YOU have been correcting ME. Uh-huh. Now whose running with their tail between their legs? Take a hike, pal. I won't push you into continuing to dialog with me. I strongly recommend, however, that you reflect on the evidence. Take care
AgApE010 1 year ago
@AgApE010 I guess I don't have anything to reflect on, then, because you have presented no evidence. You have provided no evidence that proves the universe requires a creator. Take a hike yourself, or give me some actual evidence instead of opinions.
TempleOfSin 1 year ago
@AgApE010 I strongly recommend you know what you're talking about before you attempt to discuss it. Try being honest with YOURSELF for a change, and really think about whether your arguments make sense.
I really feel sorry for you. Your faith seems to have sapped your rationale. That's very irritating because I know you're smarter than that.
TempleOfSin 1 year ago
@AgApE010 What evidence? Do you know what evidence is? How can you say you have any evidence when you dont have a "godless" universe to compare it to. Enjoy your magic fairy tales.
myironlungca 7 months ago
@myironlungca
That's an absurd objection. With that line of reasoning I can say that we cannot know if logic is knowable since we don't have a universe where it is unknowable. You just made that up and decided to use it on YouTube, didn't you?
AgApE010 7 months ago
@AgApE010 Why is it absurd? What absurd is that your claim is that the universe is so "ordered" that it must imply a god. I could just as easily claim its completely disorderd. Logic is dependent on whats called axiomatic truths. Things we have to take for granted to get anywhere... They dont apply to God though. Too bad for you.
myironlungca 7 months ago
@myironlungca
Actually I no longer argue that the universe has a cause because it's "ordered." Did I say that on one of my comments here from last year?
Anyways, no. I argue more in line with Leibniz's Cosmological Argument with regard to the universe and God.
AgApE010 7 months ago
@AgApE010 play of language sometimes can be confusing. "creatio ex nihilo" i think is better explain as creation out of non-existing materials. because by simple logic, nothing will only produce nothing.
merlz 1 year ago
@merlz
-
Hi. That was exactly my point. So because of the fact that all the evidence today points towards the Big Bang coming forth from a state of nothingness, it is illogical to believe in spontaneous creation (as Hawkings' newest theory suggest, although I'm sure he'll change his mind again soon as he always does) or anything of the sort.
-
Aren't we saying the same thing (creation out of nothing/creation out of non-existing materials) since even those materials had to be created ex nhilio?
AgApE010 1 year ago
@AgApE010 I'm giving you an opportunity to elaborate on this. Show me your argument. Prove that it's reasonable if you can.
TempleOfSin 1 year ago
@AgApE010 No answer this time? You're cowering under your computer desk instead? Okay, fair enough.
TempleOfSin 1 year ago
@AgApE010 I'm far too unstable to think critically?
Sticks and stones.
TempleOfSin 1 year ago
@AgApE010 At this juncture, I feel it's necessary to divulge that this is one of my big issues with religion. If we just accept god as the origin of the universe, what impetus would we have to search for real answers? Religion provides a lot of easy, false answers to complicated questions. The kalam cosmological argument is a perfect example of this.
TempleOfSin 1 year ago
@TempleOfSin
-
"If we accept god as the origin of the universe, what impetus would we have to search for real answers?"
-
Firstly, if you come to your senses and accept God as the cause of the universe, God IS the real answer. That conclusion, however, does not promote intellectual laziness. You seem to forget that all the Fathers of Science were theists, and many still are today. Accepting God as the creator doesn't mean we do not continue to search for answers in all fields of science.
AgApE010 1 year ago
@AgApE010 God is the real answer, because... ?
TempleOfSin 1 year ago
@TempleOfSin
-
Your "big issue" with Christianity is your sin. You've been presented with undeniable truths that point to the existence of God, even the God of the Bible. You've been shown that modern science is in agreement with theism. Your objections have been refuted. There is no reason for a thinking person, at this point, to continue to deny God's existence. However, due to your heart and its own desires, you refuse to believe. God will want an accounting of you for your hardness of heart.
AgApE010 1 year ago
@AgApE010 Are you going to provide any evidence or a compelling argument for your god or your religion, or are you just going to continue maligning me?
Claiming that god fits into the creation of the universe because we haven't divulged an answer for the beginning of the universe is not a compelling argument. It's just a guess.
TempleOfSin 1 year ago
@TempleOfSin
-
"Are you going to provide any evidence or a compelling argument for your god, or are you going to continue maligning me?"
-
What slander! Are you not ashamed to tell such lies? I have spoken to you in a most mature manner and did not once speak any evil of you. Further, I presented my evidence to you all throughout this conversation, and you respond with asking if I will provide any evidence. How can any rational person bear to dialog any further with such a person as yourself?
AgApE010 1 year ago