20 Tons of TNT - Flanders and Swann

[CanuckYT]

Out of character for their usual material perhaps, but Swann was a Quaker so not surprising that he would sing such a song.

[ThatMartialArtist]

I'm probably wrong but I have noticed a slight undertone of communism in this song. Does anyone else feel like this is so or am I finally loosing my mind?

[Air420]

I'm a communist and I enjoyed it, so maybe. 

[GasdPurch]

Why isn't it 40 thousand lbs. of killing?

[K1LG0RE]

@GasdPurch They must be referring to the currency, which makes sense when one reads the previous stanza, which in turn must refer to the thirty silver coins Judas received to betray Jesus, even though "there were no shillings in them days". ;)

[GasdPurch]

I love the list of ethnicities... It seems so random and yet it says so much.

[shockwaveable]

Make that 1967, rather than 1957.

[shockwaveable]

@rjhiller

2B - the various START and arms control treaties have reduced the existing stockpiles of the two major powers, and at least one of them hasn't produced any new ones in roughly 20 years. China, Israel, India Pakistan, Korth Korea etc haven't produced more than a few hundred between them, which I doubt makes up for the large number de-commissioned. Fore example, the US had over 31000 warheads in 1967, currently it has just over 5000, with Russia (1957 - ~7000) at roughly 2000.

[shockwaveable]

@rjhiller well I'd imagine it's quite a bit less, for two reasons:

1.The world population is over 6 billion (double that in 1960)

2. Though a number of other powers have gained thermonuclear weapons in that time, overall trend has been downwards, for two large reasons:

2A - As the accuracy of warheads has increased, their size and yield has decreased. The 'citybusters' of old were very inefficient, it was found that dropping 8 or 10 high kiloton or megaton MIRVs had a greater or equal effect.

[johngal56]

Very powerful and thought provoking, even today.

[rjhillier]

That was in the 1960s - 20 Tons of TNT per capita - I wonder how many tons of TNT equivalent there is now per head of population...

[Corinthian404]

Their maths may be a bit off now - there's more than twice as many people on Earth, and actually a lot less nukes - but the point still stands. Even if there was only a pound's worth of tnt for each person, have you seen what a pound of explosive can do?

[1981busch]

Im truly pissed, this song is not a joke, do you know ANY 4th year physics student can construct a nuclear weapon? Do you know that you can find out the principles of a thermonuclear bomb by googleing it, going to the library, and simply reading a physics txt book you can find at a garage sale? ha ha, for the first time man has a mas suicide plan in case some nutcase is pissed off enough about the price of fish.

[irkibby]

@1981busch

Who is laughing? I don't see anyone who has posted who has found this song amusing.

[GerbilProphet]

@1981busch The knowledge of how to build a nuclear weapon isn't enough to build one, you also need the materials, which requires a large-scale operation. Rouge mad Scientists aren't going to be building nuclear weapons anytime soon.

[1981busch]

To all you who are laughing, would it be funny if the state had 20 tons of cyonide per person, to put in the water, in case of a riot, rebelion, or whatever they wanted?

[irkibby]

This sounds a bit like like an anthem setting of a psalm

[artsyg33k]

It's not entirely surprising in some ways; Donald Swann was a Quaker.

[supportme123]

@artsyg33k : although an ardent F&S fan, I was unaware of this - thanks for this little nugget!

[Dunkelberg]

Wow.

[pampebble]

Chilling is the word, thucy2. This song will only get more and more relevant until... Either it will be too late or this will be referenced in history books. Pray to your gods for the latter.

[Emmett006]

I grew up with F&S but only recently discovered some songs I didn't remember.

I'm sure 'Twenty Tons' must be the result of Swann's Quaker pacifist gently leaning on Flanders naval background but accute realism and sense of justice. Other wonderful songs I found on my 50th birthday present were 'Vanessa', 'Sea Fever' and 'Tried by the centre court' Bink...bonk etc!

[supportme123]

@Emmett006 In fact, the Quaker philosophy is not that incompatible with a naval background as one might be inclined to suspect. Very few true men of the sea have anything positive to say about weapons of mass destruction, which they regard as a warfare abomination. Conventional naval defence is worth its weight in gold - not to mention the brave fisherfolk who, during WW2, risked their lives sweeping the mines ubiquitously planted by the enemy.

[spinynorman230]

isn't this the tune of a hymn?

[Phabathanbob]

An old take on WMD?

[Alcagaur]

It is wonderful that someone could highlight this "lesser sibling" to the zeugmas of Madeira or the wallowing of "The Hippopotamus". The value of gentle, fact based irony is sometimes lost in the flurry of epithets and abbreviations that flutter across cyberspace, and here, perhaps, we find the "still, small voice of calm".

[supportme123]

@Alcagaur : indeed, Madeira contains the most hilarious zeugma of them all "When he cried "what in Heaven" she made no reply, up her mind and a dash for the door".... brilliant.

[TashkentFox]

Since the nuclear stockpiles have been reduced and the population of the earth has increased it's more like 2 tons of TNT now.

[kistinie]

Depends if you take in account the new MHD pure fusion nuclear bombs...:-((

[Chizzy941]

@kistinie fortunatley nuclear fusion is not creatable by human hands, if it were we would no longer have an energy crisis and the whole world would know of it, also who the heck would nuke something in the world with the power of nuclear fusion, it would blow a whole in the earth the size of the usa!!!!

[danobaka]

@Chizzy941 thermonuclear bombs work via nuclear fusion as do a lot of powerplants, are you getting fusion and cold fusion confused?

[NulfastuEarthbound]

I like the line "Now in death are all men equal."

[SimonB198207]

very evocative song. first became aware of this duo through Armstrong and Millers brilliant parody (Brabyns and Fyfe). very impressed with this piece.

[Paul020253]

Donald Swann was of course a Quaker and served in the Friend's Ambulance Unit in the Second World War. Michael Flanders was in the Royal Navy and contracted polio through being sunk whilst on active duty. Whether or not its 20 tonnes or 4 is irrelevant, weapons of mass destruction are just that: weapons of mass destruction, and should be banned and any destroyed. At least South Africa had the intestinal fortitude to do it.

[SlashySnowEagle]

one of my favorites of theirs. i like it even better than their blatantly funny ones (though some are pretty damn fun!) something about the straight facts makes it all the more powerful. and there is no criticism in it at all. just straight facts. makes you think far more than songs which do nothing but state how evil things are and how everyone needs to change.

[franl155]

even more powerful for its gentle delivery - and from such an unlikely source!

and more people, and more nukes - ratio's about the same?

[napalminthemorning0]

nope, fewer nuclear weapons now, you have to remember that that was the height of the cold war, and US and Soviet stockpiles were outrageous. there's been alot of disarmament since.

[thechaos44]

napalminthemorning0 -

Now there's a positive backstep, eh?

:-)

[alchemistapf]

Fewer, but they are now much more powerful :-s

[medicvet]

I think I heard this first years back on Dr. Demento. It's a pretty powerful song..especially when you think that there is now more nukes and more people, so the song would have to be changed some but the core thought would still be the same.

[Eehlex]

R.E.S.P.E.C.T.

Love these two so much.

[lskarin]

Great artists and craftsmen. William S. Gilbert would have been proud to have F&S in his company since there is not a word you cannot understand.

[henlaojim]

I was stunned when I first heard this on the television some years ago. Never quite got over it.

[Zobor111]

Very cool. Glad I came across it. Ill write my own song too. I was a guard of Chemical Weapons stockpiles at Dugway, UT. Nasty shit!!

[bloggulator]

Everyone should hear this, or read the lyrics. One of *the* most powerful antiwar songs ever written.

[BRowe99]

bloggulator: "One of *the* most powerful antiwar songs."

It is interesting as a period piece, but it has no content, other than to point out the enormous megatonnage of nukes at the time it was written, of which everyone at the time was aware. Most of the world's population would not have been directly affected by a full-scale nuclear exchange.

Historical context is what matters. If someone made a similar song today (4 tons of TNT, or whatever), would it be relevant? Obviously not.

[cogidubnus1953]

A mean-spirited and totally ill-informed comment - you fail to recognise how brave a dissenting voice it was at the time...like Tom Lehrer in the USA...

[BRowe99]

Dissent shouldn't be sappy and brainless. Lehrer had real content.

[Jourell1]

I strongly disagree BRowe99. Though you are correct in that it is a reflection of the amount of armament that was present at the time, that is not the point of the song.

The point is simply that despite all the teachings of philosophers and religious figure, of hopes for peace and understanding, we've produced enough weaponry to destroy the world several times over.

It is a call for peace, which still resonated today despite the fact that governments have officially reduced their armament

[danobaka]

@BRowe99 you mean most of the USA wouldn't be affected. Everyone in the UK was very very aware of how much of a target they were, thanks to proximity of east germany, and US bases on UK soil like Fylingdales and Menwith Hill.

[BRowe99]

@ danobaka

No, I mean the populations of China, India, Indonesia etc. The "20 tons" calculation is based on the entire world's population. The US population is only a small part of it. The song explicitly refers to "Texan, Bantu, Slav or Maori, Argentine or Singhalee". The last 5 of these would not be targeted.

It is not true to say the US would be unaffected; under the MAD (Mutual Assured Destruction) doctrine it would be the preferred target, for what I presume are obvious reasons.

[Phabathanbob]

"...in death are all men equal"

[1981Marcus]

Excellent song - could someone please post "Lovely War"? It's Flanders' loose translation of a French antiwar song, less serious in tone than this one (a bit closer to their usual fare) but still very biting.

[thucy2]

This is a chilling song, rather out of character for F & S, but truly an amazing piece of work.

As already noted, the line about "the ghostly Magi" is stunning.

Two bits of trivia about Flanders & Swann. Their first records were produced by George Martin, before Martin went on to produce the Beatles. And Michael Flanders was a wheelchair user due to polio, and told some of the first ever "disability hip" jokes. His monologue on being hoisted into an airliner via fork lift is hilarious.

[sziyyet2]

Thanks for the additional background info. They were both endearing characters and very good at displaying a very British character trait - self-mockery.

[Paul020253]

@thucy2 Donald Swann was a Quaker and served in the Friends Ambulance Unit during the 2nd World War. He was an active pacifist so this song is not really out of character. The poetry however is truly awesome

[Bouncybon]

@Paul020253 As an RC that surprises me a little. I always think of Donald as quintessentially Church of England. Even his singing voice is Anglican. What brilliant and charming men they were.

Their England no longer exists. It's very sad.

[Paul020253]

@Bouncybon I know exactly what you mean and I think that is part of their charm. Of course Michael Flanders was the writer and Donald Swann the musician, nevertheless working so close they cannot but help to influence each other. For me personally it sums up my feelings towards nuclear weapons-how futile they are

[nintendonut100]

@thucy2 only in this case can moving on to produce the beatles be a step down

[gaspode18]

That is as good as anything Bob Dylan ever wrote - "Teach me how to love my neighbor, do to him as he to me-

Share the fruits of all our labour - Twenty tons of T.N.T!

Wow.....Just.....Wow!

I did read somwhere that it's down to about four tons each now. Still, four tons of TNT will kill you just as dead as twenty.

[topangapan]

wow

thank you

[GenLovesBroadway]

Wow, I'd never heard this. Brilliant! Swann's anti-war sentiments were made clear by the final line of "The Reluctant Cannibal", but this is something else!

[t9a13gh4f]

We should have this as our national anthem!

[Bickieundspielen]

Excellent. powerful and moving despite the unlikely source

[yellowlabrador]

First time to hear this, brilliant. Thanks for posting

[sziyyet2]

Thanks for your comment Bob. Nowhere is Flanders' poetic gift more apparent than in the line 'at each new nativity come the ghostly Maji bearing...'; a heart-breaking and deeply felt response to the idiocy of the nuclear arms race.

[lochness11]

Never heard this one.Thanks.Yes,the pen is mightier than the sword.