It's pathetic how opinions seem to cause arguments which are pointless. I'm fed up of watching vids to look down at the comments to finding kids or immature people arguing over things which need not be argued about. Please - grow up and learn to ignore other peoples comments if you do not agree. -.-'
@LittleDarkFox - Arguments of "who is the greatest" are one of the foundations of ANY sport. That is just the way it is, and don't expect that angle to change in the next millenium! I do understand where you are coming from, but if you don't like these discussions, then DON'T SCROLL DOWN and simply watch the video!!!
@Dannykeith46 Lol, it's what open curiousity brings I am afraid. Nearly everyone who has that natural curiousity streak will look down and just peek at what others have said. :P It's not just the "Who are the greatest" in sports I am on about though - though your point is valid. I did, however mean in general.
I WATCHED FUCKING SECRETARIAT YOU DUMB FUCK! He won by 31 lengths! See! Now go fuck your chickens, I'm in a bad enough mood anyway! as for @Dannykeith46, I never said anything like that, don't guess what you can't fucking know you shit headed slut face
This horse is NOT the greatest ever. Look at Phar Lap. Look at Makybe Diva. Look at Seabiscuit. Look at War Admiral. Etc, etc. No way, try watching a Melbourne Cup someday you stupid bastard.
@Mizfit991 - Another non-American who hates ANYTHING having to do with the United States. Secretariat would have BLASTED Phar Lap or any other Eurpoeon/Austrialian horse for that matter! Seabiscuit??? The horse, while a fan favorite LOST over 20 races smartass and take your Melbourne Cup and stick it up your ass!!!
@Dannykeith46 I have watched Secretariet, but as an Australian, I would like you to respect our 6 million dollar race a bit more. And I LOVE horses in the USA, we just dont GET it here. And I said etc etc, including Secretariat, and BTW I watched his movie the EXACT same night, so you take your Kentucky Derby and shove it up your ass. Phar Lap would have lost, Makybe Diva would have won. Shut the fuck up you cagna
Secretariat was an excellent racehorse but he dominated a relatively soft crop of three year olds, in my opinion.
His vaunted preeminence is open to question, once you factor the small fields, easy leads, and media hype into your thinking. Great horses are champions at ages two, three. ...and four.
@JayAr709 - Secretariat walluped 4 & 5 year olds in the Marlboro Cup, Man o' War Stakes and Canadian International including previous Kentucky Derby/Belmont Stakes winner Riva Ridge, former Canadian horse of the year Kennedy Road and Couger II to name just a few. Also, had a not been for Secretariat, Sham would have set TWO records for the Derby and Preakness and was a spectacular 3 year old. Bottom line is "Big Red's" times do ALL OF THE TALKING, regardless of who he is racing!
@JayAr709 Sorry, but the Experts will always disagree with you. No one horse would have ever beaten Secretariat at 2:24 flat on the dirt on June 9, 1973 and that is a fact that will not be denied. Why? Because no one horse has ever surpassed 2:25 at 1.5 miles on dirt as yet! He is the Record Holder (after 38 years) of 2 of the 3 best races in the World - the KY Derby and Belmont Stakes. His time at the Preakness would be a record if the clock hadn't malfunctioned.
@JayAr709 And the fields were smaller after the Derby because most horse owners realized that Secretariat and Sham were both Super Horses and didn't want to waste their horses against Superior competition. Sham still has the 2nd fastest time in the KY Derby and he finished second. Do some research... Sham would have won the Triple Crown in 1973 if Secretariat wasn't around!
@gipper1066 Sham MIGHT have won the Belmont, let's be clear because there were 7 previous horses, all great ones who succumbed to Belmont's distance prior to Sham. He is in good company but victory was not assured for certain. And to answer the what if question anyway: what was Sham's best time at 1 1/2 miles? and was that competitive to the three horses that finished ahead of him at Belmont on that day. If you can find the fact, you have at least one answer, but not a guarantee.
@80cathryn Sham only raced once at 1 1/2 miles at the Belmont. You cannot really consider that the race he would have run if Secretariat were not there. Sham was retired due to a hairline fracture in July 1973 and many suspect if might have happened during the Belmont, as Pincay was under orders to keep Sham close to a true Freak of Nature in Secretariat.. No one knows for certain. But Sham certainly was the second fastest horse in 1973 and that says quite a bit :)
@JayAr709 and finally, Secretariat is the only horse to win as a 2 and a 3 year old. Secretariat lost some races, as every horse has, but most all of his losses were due to some physical ailment usually. He still won 16 of 21 against horses of the 1970s (the best decade ever in all of Horse Racing), winning the most important races in the world and setting 2 still standing records in the process. Secretariat is the Best, hands down!
@JayAr709 Dont know history very well; Big Red was restricted by the syndication of his breeding rights owners from racing beyond 3 yr old in '73. By all rights, it would be a fun argument to discuss how many more races Big Red would have won heading into 4 an 5 year olds.
In the end however are his times. The length of time that has passed with his records untouched nor challenged; meaning no one has stepped close to the record or the margin of victory. greatest is spelled = Secretariat.
@80cathryn No one had stepped close? Ruffian shattered all of his 2 year old records, and did what he did not do, which was winning her maiden by 15 lengths, and shattering the track record for 5 1/2 furlongs for any 2 year old that had ever raced there, When Ruffian ran in the 1 1/2 mile Coaching club american oaks, she went straight to the lead, and was in the lead by 6 lengths and widening, then the jockey pulled her back, people say if she been allowed to run she wouldve beaten reds record!
@RuffianQueenOfRacing - You just don't gt it...do you! Ruffian was held back at the CCO? What about Secretariat in the Belmont? He was "hand ridden" the WHOLE race...no whip/stick...only a Turcotte hand ride the full 1-1/2 mile distance and STILL RAN a 2:24 flat!!! Don't tell me Ruffian would have made up 18 lengths if she was pushed...do you realize what 18 lengths is? Ruffian was truely awesome (top 5 in my opinion) but she would have NEVER come close to Sec's Belmont time...NO ONE WILL!
@Dannykeith46 no YOU dont get it! Ruffian was in the lead by 6 lengths not even 10 seconds after she left the gate and was widening! she had a faster quater then secretariat did in his belmont! then vasquez held her back, because she would of kept running! you know who was ridding equal change? TURCOTTE! he even said to vasquez, that if ruffian had run, not even secretariat could have caught her!
as whiteley said! i dont recall ANY horse winning their miaden by 15 and in record time? do you!?
@RuffianQueenOfRacing - WHO THE$#$@#$%$ cares about a 5-1/2 furlong maiden race??? You are right....NO HORSE would have beaten Ruffian that day but NO ONEreally gives a hoot about 5-1/2 furlongs! The title of "greatest horse ever" is bestowne upon a horse that was SUPERIOR at mile+ distances....that is waht you simply don't understand!
@Dannykeith46 secretariat couldnt win 5 1/2 furlong race maiden! no horse, no matter the distance has won the way Ruffian did her maiden, which puts her above secretariat, not even he could have done that! Have you watched sports flash back of Ruffian? how many times the word perfect was used to describe her, how may times the word greatest was used to describe her! have you seen the headline of a magazine "Ruffian vs Secretariat, filly wins by inches" every one then thought she was better!
@RuffianQueenOfRacing - Are you trying to tell me that Ruffian's 15 length maiden win is more impressive than Sec's 2:24 mile and a half 31 length Belmont marvel. If you are you then are a complete fool and I am fighting with an idoit!. Keep that thought low key before you are locked up for lunacy! Also, the fact that you have Zenyatta & Rachel Alexander on a list that EXCLUDES Man o'War, Spectacular Bid & Seattle Slew proves you know absoltely NOTHING! ARE YOU KIDDING ME!
@Dannykeith46 yes i am saying that, because secretariat had raced before he won the belmont, ruffian had never raced before she won her maiden, she had never faced another horses, but secretariat had, so he knew what tto do!
Ruffian had a faster quater in her 1 1/2 miles then secretariat had in his, also, i had man o war on my list, or are you blind? he was a good horse but most of his races were only against 2 other horses, and his times are nothing special! Perfect is the word for Ruffian
@RuffianQueenOfRacing - My Bad...I did miss Man o' War! You are the SOLE person in the universe that would think a a bull#$#$% 5-1/2 furlong Maiden race would be more significant than the 1-1/2 mile Belmont Stakes. Also, what in God's name are you talking about when you say Ruffian had a faster quarter than SEC in the 1-1/2 mile? Who cares and what does that mean? Its a mile and a half race and the FINAL TIME is what counts...do you make this up as you go along???
@Dannykeith46 im not the sole person in the universe, Andy Beyer said Ruffian was the fastest horse he had ever seen, Jess Jackson said she was the greatest horse of the 20th century, Frank Whitely said she was the greatest horse he had trained, Vasquez said she was the fastest he had ever ridden! how can i possibly place Zenyatta and Rachel on a top 10 list? BECAUSE ITS MY LIST you idiot! Just as you list was your list! YOUR oppinion! did you see me slamming you for it? NO so grow up a little!
@RuffianQueenOfRacing - All true but only a handful of opinions. If you surveyed 100 experts/historians, AT LEAST 75% would pick Secretariat as the greatest horse ever including Chrales Hatton, Hollinsworth and Eddie Arcaro who rode Ciation & Kelso! Also, glad you mentioned Andy Beyer beacuse he stated that SEC's Belmont was the most extraordinary run in horse racing history, NEVER to be duplicated again because Sec extended himself BEYOND the laws of physics!
@RuffianQueenOfRacing - I want you to ask yourself one simple question - how can you possiby place a fillie #1 on an ALL-TIME list that ran only 10 races and NEVER beat a colt??? I fully admit that her 5-1/2 - 6 furlong times were extraordinary but her mile+ times were good, certainly NOT eye popping. This is NOT a SEC issue because VIRTUALLY EVERYONE KNOWS SEC is the greatest American race horse ever. Forget SEC and think about the fact that Ruffian NEVER beat a COLT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@RuffianQueenOfRacing - ONE FINAL NOTE - Whitely NEVER trained Secretariat, Man o' War, Count Fleet, Citation, Spectacular Bid, etc. so his "Ruffian is the greatest horse I ever trained" statement means absolutely NOTHING in a "greatest ever poll"! Vasquez NEVER rode Secretariat so his statement means NOTHING! But when a legendary jockey such as Eddie Arcaro who DID ride Citation & Kelso says with 100% certainty that Secretariat is the greatest horse ever, THAT MEANS SOMETHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@Dannykeith46 whitelely trained champions such as Damascus, forego and so on! so his opinion DOES count, also, vasquez beat secretariat twice, so his opinion counts too!
you say that vasquez opinion doesnt count because he didnt ride secretariat and then you throw in another person who never rode secretariat either! so i guess that means his opinion doesnt count either! bart cummings says Ruffian was the greatest he had seen, and i repeat jess jackson said she was the greatest of the century
@RuffianQueenOfRacing - In 1999, Bloodhorse Magazine (the most respected American Race Horse Periodical) chose a panel of 7 of the most intelligent and respected analysts/experts to choose the top 100 horses of all-time. (1) Man o' War (2) Secretariat....(35) Ruffian!!! In fact, Bill Nack stated the ONLY REASON SEC wasn't #1 was because one writer did not like Sec & gave him a ridiculous low score. I admit, Ruffian at#35 is wrong but remember- Ruffian NEVER BEAT A COLT- case closed!!!!!!
@Dannykeith46 Nack said he wanted to place Ruffian #13 ALSO just because she didnt beat a colt doesnt mean SHIT! her CCAO was faster then that years belmont, and every colt that raced when she did, save for forego had 2-3 seconds slower times then Ruffian, she didnt have to beat the colts in a race, she just had to beat their times CASE CLOSED!
also, ruffian had a fracture in her back leg which is why she was scratched
@RuffianQueenOfRacing - I AGREE with Nack & already said Ruffian should be between 5 and 10. However, you CANNOT say that NOT beating a colt means shit & I'll tell you why. In a mile+ race, when a horse is challenged (like Foolish Pleasure challenged Ruffian), things happen like serious "fatigue". Just because Ruffian was faster than most colts doen't mean she would have outlasted them say from 1-1/8 miles to 1-1/2 miles. THAT IS THE ISSUE & because we DONT know, NO WAY she can EVER be#1!
@RuffianQueenOfRacing - If you think Ruffian could have ever matched Secretariat's 2:24 in the Belmont you are a complete fool! Her 2:27-3/5 time in the CCAO was good but 3-3/5 seconds (18 lengths) BEHIND Sec's and Ruffian was challenged by a filly who lost by only 2 -3 lengths so DON'T say she was coasting. Sec was coasting my friend and still broke the "WORLD RECORD" by 10 lengths! Of course Ruffian COULD HAVE beaten colts - but she didn't which is why with only 10 races she can't be #1!!!
@RuffianQueenOfRacing - Oh and by the way, it slipped through the cracks that you had the audacity to place Genuine Risk AHEAD of Secretariat? You are absolutely insane!!! I now see that you must be some "women's lib" advocater with 4 fillies on the top 10 all-time list! I will no longer argue with you because I now understand you are a frustrated women's lib individual and that is EXACTLY where all of this is coming from!!! Genuine Risk over Sec...why not "Miss Piggy and Cindarella too???
@RuffianQueenOfRacing - Genuine Risk # 2 and ahead of Secretariat???????????.....lol.....lol...lol....lol...lol...lol....lol...lol....lol....you are now, officially, the laughing stock of race horse analysis with ZERO credibility to your posts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Even "Ruffian" would be laughing at you!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@RuffianQueenOfRacing - lol! Peace! Let's just say Secretariat was the greatest colt & Ruffian the greatest filly evert! FYI, Whiteley did scratch Ruffian on the morning of Sept. 26, 1974 from racing in the Frizette Stakes because he noticed she haden't eaten and was running a low temperature. That is a fact. About a week later, they found the hairline fracture which ended her 1974 season. Whiteley was a FAR better trainer than Lauren & would have rightly scratched SEC in 2 of his losses!
@Dannykeith46 look man, im not going to argue with you on 2 different videos about something that is clear we wont ever agree on! also! i ranked GR above SEC on MY list, because its MY oppinion, NOT yours so stop trying to take control when it is my oppinion not anyone elses! did i slam you for your "top 10 list'? no i did not! because i have more sence then that! because i am actually mature enough to know that it was in your oppinion! so back off about it and shut up about it!
@RuffianQueenOfRacing - I have scanned virtually every expert "greatest horse" list including the OFFICIAL "Bloodhorse" poll with SEC and Man o' War listed as 1 & 2 (in any order) on EVERY list but YOUR opinion changes everything. Obviously, if Sec/Man o' War were fillies they would be tops on your list. Your love/zeal for fillies blinds you to the obvious truth. PS - SEC "looped along" to a 2:24 1-1/2 mile WORLD RECORD dirt run so why do you keep talking to a 2:27.8 time that means NOTHING!
@RuffianQueenOfRacing - Maybe current Yankee left fielder Bret Gardner is a greater power hitter than Babe Ruth because it is my opinion??? That is how stupid your opinion looks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@Dannykeith46 oh so that is really your oppinion? WOW! and you say my oppinion is stupid? WOWOWOWOW! seriously man, keep replying, you just continue to show how pathetic you are! Cant handle someone elses oppinion so you just turn into a real american... so sad...
@RuffianQueenOfRacing - A "real AMERICAN" is superior to any form of humanity on the face of the earth you absolute idiot. By the way, maybe Ruffian "snapped" her leg because she couldn't handle the stress of finally having a "REAL HORSE" running right with her for the first time ever, other than those pathetic fillies she was beating up on that couldn't outrun a turtle!!!!!! Some experts DO believe that is the case because Foolish Pleasure would have pushed her right to the finish line!
@Dannykeith46 that statement is completely irrelivent, because Hot n Nasty stuck with Ruffian the entire way around the track, and did Ruffian crack under the pressure then? NO! BTW Hot n Nasty had won her maiden by 13 lengths, and won 2 stakes races (one being the hollywood lassie/landaluce stakes) and was undefeated in those 3 starts, now if that filly AND laughing bridge are horses you say couldnt outrun a "turtle" then think again
@RuffianQueenOfRacing - yeahhhhhhhhhh....I hear alot of people still discussing "Hot n Nasty's and Laughing Bridge's legacy....keep dreaming pal...someday you'll wake up from that coma you slipped into many years ago!!!!!!
@Dannykeith46 dont hate just because i smashed your so called "fact" so run along now, you are to infatuated with secretariat... i have no respect for people who do not respect other peoples oppinions
@RuffianQueenOfRacing - First & Foremost, you should remove yourself from this board because you are not "worthy" to discuss horse racing on a Secretariat Belmont Stakes forum! Secondly, I always respect people's opinion's when they are within "reason". I will discuss a Ruffian vs. Sec argument because "at least" Ruffian was a super horse, but when you place Genuine Risk ahead of Sec you lose ALL CREDIBILITY!!!!! ANY horse racing expert would "dismiss" you as a complete idiot!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@Dannykeith46 if greedy american breeders would hold off on racing till their horses are grown these horrible injuries wouldn't happen. they even force babies to run in speed tests to attract buyers and it's heartbreaking to see the babies have heart attacks. compound fractures-then run along on the broken stump. breeders are lousy cruel money-grubbing bastards and i hope they rot in hell
@greatbigbubby - You just might be right my friend! I also recently learned that many "retired" horses are slaughtered in Sweden & Japan when they have no more use for them, an absolutely disgusting exercise. Included in this group was the great Ferdinand with no apparent explanation. One thing America has done in the past decade is to eliminate the unnecessary slaughter of thoroughbred race horses. I agree with you that these are wonderful animals are seriously abused by greed.
@Dannykeith46 it's just amazing how these beautiful faithful horses make them rich and they treat them like disposable soldiers. our racehorses are still slaughtered. just awful. when there's a gas crunch and our fuel is rationed for military only-i'll be riding my horses and those cruel s.o.b.'s can suffer. christians believe this is wrong; a righteous man cares for the needs of his animal; the wild animals honor Me.
@RuffianQueenOfRacing - Vasquez beat Sec when he was ill with an abcess & virus. Remember, Whitely "scratched" Ruffian from a stakes race when she was running a low grade fever AND the great Man o' War was scratched from the KENTUCY DERBY because he was likewise under the weather. Both trainers were 100% correct! Tweedie & Lauren should BOTH be ashamed of themselves for running Sec when he wasn't right. They thought his supernatural level could offset his illness..doesn't work with horses!
@RuffianQueenOfRacing - One last issue: How can you possibly place Zenyatta & Rachel Alexander on a top 10 list over Count Fleet, Spectacular Bid, Kelso and Seattle Slew...you are joking right? I AM beginning to see now where you are coming from...you are an advocate for fillies!!! Whatever you may think, the ONLY filly that can stake a claim on the top 10 list is Ruffian (no doubt!) and with only 10 races, never beating a colt and NO spectacular mile+ times, she can't match Secretariat!!!!!
@RuffianQueenOfRacing - VIRTUALLY EVERY RACING EXPERT AGREES that Sec's Belmont is the greatest achievment EVER...you are fighting a LOSING BATTLE. Everything with you and Ruffian is "if"...."if she didn't break her leg she would have...", if she wasn't held back she would have..."....ANF IF MY AUNT HAD BALLS SHE WOULD BE MY UNCLE!!!! Get the point! Sec's record track & world times are for ALL horses..facts! Ruffian's stakes records are for mostly Phillies...big difference!
Last but not least....Ruffian NEVER beat a colt! For the record I do believe she would have beat Foolish Pleasure by a length or two at the wire (and I was rooting hard for Ruffian) but once again, that is ONLY pure conjecture. After reviewing your top 10 list one more time, the fact you placed Genuine Risk over Sec is irrefutable proof you have no business even discussing any greatest horse list. No Spectacular Bid and Man o' War with Zenyatta and Rachel Alexander...ludicrous!
@RuffianQueenOfRacing - You continue to let your emotions and love for Ruffian cloud your judgement. Forget conjecture, it means absolutely NOTHING! I LOVED Ruffian as much as anyone and cried my eyes out when she broke down. However, FACTS ARE Sec's BEST mile+ times are far better than Ruffian's BEST mile+ times, case closed...discussion ENDED! Ruffian may have been the faster 5 - 7 furlong sprinter, but she simply can't match SEC"s best mile+ times...NO ONE REALLY CARES ABOUT 5/6 furlongs!
@RuffianQueenOfRacing - FYI, here are my top 10 AMERICAN horses of all-time: (1)/(2) Secretariat/Man o' War (place them in any 1/2 order and you can argue either scenario, (3) Citation, (4) Spectacular Bid, (5) Ruffian, (6) Count Fleet, (7) Kelso, (8) Seatlle Slew, (9) Dr. Fager, (10) Native Dancer/Affirmed. Just an opinion and, of course, very subjective. People will blast me for placing Ruffian ahead of horses like Slew & Dr. Fager but I truely believe she was better!
@Dannykeith46 1Ruffian, 2Genuine Risk, 3Secretariat, 4Citation, 5Native Dancer, 6Zenyatta, 7Man O War, 8Rachel Alexandra, 9Forego, 10Personal Ensign!!!
top 10 aussie horses:
1Tranquil Star, 2Phar Lap, 3Flight, 4Peter Pan, 5Ajax, 6Jorrocks, 7Carbine, 8Sunline, 9Makybe Diva, 10Russia. And im guessing you know who Phar Lap is? I placed the mare tranquil star before him on my list, as her record is outstanding for any horse being 111 starts: 23-20-12, she ran from 5 furlongs to 14 furlongs!
@Dannykeith46 oh and with my top 10 aussie horses, i made it top 11, putting Wakeful, as number 2, and the rest being moved down, wakeful is a mare that should really be known more, she has a spectacular caree, and it would not hurt for you to look up her and tranquil star to see that america is not the only country that has good horses!
@Dannykeith46 In my opinion, Spectacular Bid's phenomenal 4-year old record would be dotted with 2's had Affirmed raced at age 5.
If Spectacular Bid COULD pass Affirmed -- something he never managed to do, in reality -- I suspect he would do so about as often as Alydar accomplished the feat. Consequently, your "top 10" ranking of the Bid 4th, and Affirmed 10th, is something I find amusing, if vaguely disturbing. But then, I won't be joining the metronomic lockstep of Secretariat's fans, either.
@JayAr709 - FYI, I placed Bid 4th because of his "Spectacular" times incl. his World Record 1-1/4 dirt mile 1:157-4/5 marvel. They are BOTH great horses and deserving of top 10 stature. Regarding your Secretariat comment, "get over it" please. The issue with SEC detractors is they simply CANNOT accept his miraculous track & World Record performances including ALL 3 TC records and some supernatural fractions along the way. The foremost TRACK ANALYSTS stand by this notion..I am NOT alone!
@RuffianQueenOfRacing Ok, would love to know who you think the filly was that Secretariat lost to? He lost 5 races, only one out of the money and none of the horses finishing ahead of him were fillies.
@RuffianQueenOfRacing LOL Ruffian raced in the in filly races, not Triple Crown races as Secretariat did. No disrespect meant, but it's simply not the same. Comparing the races that Ruffian ran were shorter distances than what Secretariat ran, plus the fact that Secretariat raced against colts and not fillies. So you're admitting you tried to bait me with the lie about Secretariat having been beaten by a filly? I already knew that was never true ;-P LOL
@RuffianQueenOfRacing What is certainly true is that Ruffian was a Freak of Nature (over 17 hands tall) born to race and conquer all horses on the Filly end and Secretariat was a Freak of Nature (22 pound heart, more than 2.5 times the size of a normal horse's heart) that was born to race and conquer on the Stallion side of racing. Both certainly accomplished what they were born for!
you all want the greatest racehorse ever? try looking up a 18 hundreds race mare "Fashion" now there, the greatest racehorse has NEVER had such a perfect example!
The major difference separating Secretariat and Ruffian is the distance! Keep in mind when Sec was thrashing every 2 year old, everyone stated he needs to prove he can be dominate as a 3 year-old at distances greater than a mile. If you look at Ruffian's times for a 1-1/8 mile or greater, they are pale in comparison to Secretariat. At less than a mile distances, Ruffian was slightly quicker, but at a mile or greater, Secretariat rules...the true benchmark of the greatest horse ever!
@Dannykeith46 Thank you, thank you, thank you. Your point is sooooo accurate. Comparing the two is apples and oranges, no dissn Ruffian, but she never raced in any distance race like Kentucky Derby, Preakness, and Belmont. These three races ARE the benchmark of greatness. Required not only speed but endurance, both of which Secretariat had. Secretariat is the best and will always be.
@1MTSRider - In fact, when Ruffian ran the 1-1/2 mile in one leg of her Philly TC triumph, her time was 2:27 in change which is not embarrasing at all, but still some 18 lengths behind Secretariat's Belmont Stakes run. Secretariat also ran a 2:26-3/5 IN THE RAIN SOAKED MUD when he LOST to Prove Out and a remarkable 2:24-4/5 in his 1st turf race in his Man o' War stakes triumph. Ruffian simply can't match up to Big Red at that distance......in her defense.......who can???
@RuffianQueenOfRacing - What's your point??? Are you gloating Ruffian would have beaten Twice a Prince by 13 lengths and finished 18 lengths BEHIND Secretariat? We are talking about Secretariat vs. Ruffian! If it makes your day, I do AGEE Ruffian was better than Sham, Twice a Prince, My Gallant and Private Smiles, all of the horses that Secretariat "left for dead" in the Belmont Stakes. In fact, Ruffian is on my top 10 American horse list of all-time. She is just not close to Secretariat!
@RuffianQueenOfRacing - Do your homework! Lucien Lauren retracted that statement, saying that Ruffian's long distance times could not compete with Big Red. Don't you get it.. Ruffian's mile or greater times simply can't compare to Secretariat. This isn't opinion, it is simply FACT!!! Bottom line is the title of "the greatest horse ever" cannot be bestowed upon a horse who ruled with short distance sprints. Ruffian was GREAT, no doubt, but she falls short to Secretariat over long distances!
@RuffianQueenOfRacing - Yes he did you absolute fool. He "hedged" against it stating that Ruiffian was the faster horse between 5 - 7 furlongs, but Secretariat was superior at a mile or greater. You obviously don't know what you are talking about because anyone who compares Ruffian to Secretariat at a mile or greater distances is not an intelligent horse racing enthusiast. The "Times" DON"T LIE and Ruffian's mile or greater times fall far short ...why don't you answer to that????
@RuffianQueenOfRacing - Bottom line is Secretariat's BEST TIMES at a mile or better are ALL FAR BETTER than Ruffian's BEST TIMES...don't make me post the official times but if I have to I will you ignorant fool!!! By the way, I am still waiting for a response regarding Secretariat's 2:24 mile and a half vs. Ruffian's best 2:27 in change or an 18 length disparity...why don't you answer tyo that??????????????????
@Dannykeith46 bottom line is, you were wrong when you said ruffians records were far short!
ruffian was held back in the coaching jacinto said he held her back, she was running the field by 5 lengths then went to 6 and then jacinto reigned her in!
fact is secretatiat doesnt hold the world record for a 1 1/2 for all, he only holds it on dirt! ive seen a horse run 1 1/2 on sand in 2:23.40, and not to mention that secretariat couldnt handle the weight of a true champion for a 1 1/2m!
@RuffianQueenOfRacing - anyone knows that dirt is a tougher surface to run faster times on than turf for long distances with 7 of the 8 world records far faster on turf. NEXT - Sec fastest 1 mile (1:33-2/5); Ruffian (1:34-2/5) - 5 lenghths or STRIKE 1! Sec fastest 1-1/8 mile (1:45-2/5 & an original dirt World Record); Ruffian (1:47-4/5) - 12 lengths or STRIKE 2! Sec fastest 1-1/2 mile (2:24 - dirt World Record); Ruffian (2:27-2/5) - 17 lengths or STRIKE 3 you are out of here!!!!!!!!!!!!
@RuffianQueenOfRacing - I am NOT DONE...Secretariat still holds the 1-1/4 mile Kentucky Derby record at 1:59-2/5 and shares the unofficial Preakness record at 1:53-2/5 which means he has ALL THREE Triple Crown Records for races that are virtually 140 years old!!!! We cannot compare 1-1/4 mile fractions because Ruffian never ran that distance in an official race, but we KNOW Ruffian would have NEVER run a 1:59-2/5 or better. P.S. - I loved Ruffian and she was the faster sprinter but NO BIG RED!
@Dannykeith46 never run a faster 1 1/4? then how come she was running faster in the match race then secretariat did in the belmont? ALSO dont talk to me about not needing thw whip when ruffian only had the whip used on her in one race and only 2 hits in it! thats more then 90% try 99%!
@RuffianQueenOfRacing - Please don't make be "knock" Ruffian because she was truly great, but how can you compare fractions to a race that was incomplete. You continue to use senseless statements vs. sheer facts! I want you to strongly think about this next statement....Secretariat ran a WORLD RECORD 1-1/2 miles on dirt being via a "hand ride" the WHOLE race. He also unofficially set the 1-5/8 WORLD RECORD after a 1/8 mile GALLUP, besting "Swaps" still standing record by 3/5 of a second!
@RuffianQueenOfRacing - Last but not least...Turcott nearly never went to the whip on Sec and really hand rode him in 90% of his races inclduing his record breaking Kentucky Derby, Preakness, Belmont Stakes, Marlboro Cup and Man o' War Stakes. Oh, by the way, Sec ran a sizzling 2:24-4/5 in this FIRST turf race in the Man o' War, still a stakes record, and when he LOST to Prove Out his 1-1/2 mile time was 2:26-3/5 IN THE MUD! Ruffian was fast but she could NEVER keep up to Sec after 1 mile!
@RuffianQueenOfRacing - Awfully quiet on the homefront - the "times" got your tongue??? Oh by the way, regarding your comment about a horse running a 2:23-2/5 time in the sand, why don't you find that sand and bury your head completely in it before you embarrass yourself with further ludicrous statements. ANYONE who tries to downgrade/minimize Secretariat's Belmont Stakes run is a complete fool since it is widely regarded as the greatest single performance in thoroughbred race horse history!
@RuffianQueenOfRacing - I admit Ruffian was a faster sprinter between 5 - 7 furlongs, but she simply can't compete with Sec at long distances. There is no shame in that. Secretariat is widely considerd the greatest horse ever BECAUSE of his numerous distance track/world records. Unfortunately, we will never know how Ruffian's 1 mile+ times would have evolved beacuse of her tragic death. She was truly great but falls short of Sec beacause of his world class distance times....PEACE my friend!
@Dannykeith46 if the greatest horse ever was to be established upon distances and records then it would easily go to Fashion, ive mentioned her many times, she who holds the record for being undefeated in herfirst 23 starts, she who still holds the world record for 4 miles, and always ran at 2-3 miles, beating the great Boston twice, and has a record of 36: 32-4-0, she who beat the great boston by many lengths in the match race, setting the record for 4m with people running infront of her
@RuffianQueenOfRacing - Good point but unfortunately the American horse racing world focuses on 1 - 2 mile distances. Don't ask me why but that's just the way it is. I remember when Sec was blowing away horses as a 2 year old at 6 furlong distances, everyone said let's see him do it between 1 - 1-1/2 miles and then his supporters can talk. Everyone downgarded his awesome 2 year old year until he proved himself as a 3 year old at the greater distances. Who makes these standards I don't know??
@Dannykeith46 Fashion was an american racehorse, horse races are easy compared to how they were back when Fashion raced, people could run out on the track, throw knives, bottles, anything at the horses to get them to lose.... more horses broke down then compared to now, which is why horses like Fashion should be given the chance to be judged great of them all, when having to race under those conditions
@RuffianQueenOfRacing - From what I have read, many experts agree that distances between 1-1/8 to 1-1/2 miles present the best balance between speed and stamina which is why Secretariat and other great horses took "crap" for their 2 year old 6 furlong distances. I think that stance, WHETHER RIGHT OR WRONG (who knows for sure???) is what solidifies Secretariat's place as the greatest American race horse ever. Bottom line is BOTH Sec and Ruffian were SUPER horses with unprecedented ability!
@Dannykeith46 Ruffian didnt take crap for her 2 year old season, they say she had one of these best ever with records she set, how she won her maiden, her 3 year old season winning the triple tiara, no horse could have caught her in those races, as no horse could have could secretariat in the belmont, but like you said ruffian would have finished 17-18 lengths behind him, with her time in the CAO, with no horse infront of her, but she would not have let sec get that far away from her in a race.
@RuffianQueenOfRacing - True. In reality, Sec would have probably bested Ruffian at the Belmont by 8 - 10 lengths because I can't see Ruffian exceeding a 2:26 time for 1-1/2 miles. Regarding Ruffian's 2 year old season you are 100% correct, but the reason is that more empahsis is placed on distance with colts than a philly. The #1 in American race horsing is the TC:.Kentucky Derby, Preakness, Belmont. Far less emphasis is placed on the Philly TC. Again....who knows who sets these standards?
@Dannykeith46 ruffian isnt considered by some to be worthy of being called great because she didnt face a male, but she did, and peoples response to that is "she couldnt handle him" which is absolute crap! she was running him by almost half a length!
@RuffianQueenOfRacing - Don't listed to that "crap" for one second! On any given day, Ruffian could beat any horse, including Secretariat. She is EASILY one of the top 10 horses of all time. Let's put it this way, especially from a "sprinter" perspective, how many colts could run 6 furlongs in 108-3/5 seconds??? There is your answer to ANYONE who thinks Ruffian couldn't beat a good colt. Her incredible sprinting speed is synonymous to Sec's unparalleled long distance dominance!!!
@1MTSRider In the US maybe.But please dont include the ROW and europe in your 'GOAT' theory.There are many horses in europe that would have given the Sec more than just a race.
@JUVEXX11 - NOT ON JUNE 9th 1973! ANY HORSE in thoroughbred history would have fell victim to Secretariat at the Belmont Stakes. At his best (peak value), Secretariat was a bottomess pit of sheer power who could accomplish anything exceeding the realm of possibility like increasing his Kentucky Derby speed for each quarter mile right up to the finish line! That seems virtually impossible...a 23 second final quarter time after already running a full mile...who does that...are you kidding me!!!
Ruffian is not just one of the greatest female thoroughbred racehorses in history but one of the greatest racehorses of either gender. The trainer of Secretariat, Lucien Laurin, said this to the press, "As God as my witness, she may even be better than Secretariat."
@johnofohu123 WHAT?!? Oh my word, please - Secretariat WAS and IS the greatest racehorse ever. At the Belmont he was accelerating faster every 1/4 mile, when he hit the finish line he was still accelerating. He broke the track record by 2 3/5 secs, a record which may stand FOREVER!!! No doubt Ruffian, Man O War, were awesome great racehorses, so was Seattle Slew, but facts are facts. Anyone IN horseracing will say the same. All will be compared to Secretariat, he was a supernatural being.
@1MTSRider Ruffian was better in all her races SO THATS A FACT he only had that one time she was always at the top no horse had even got a chance to bring her down she broke all track records in every one of her races but Big red and Ruffian ran in didn't races so don't try saying hes better when they never raced and her times are better and man o war had that one record that Big red didn't even came close too but i don't know what race it said i'm not saying he is bad i'm just saying facts
No one horse is THE best. Secretariat was truly great as was EG Brigadier Gerard with 17 from 18 only ever beaten by a Derby winner and winning 12 G.1s. As was the simply breathtaking Sea Bird, as was Arkle as a jumper, as was the superb Mill Reef over 12 furlongs.....all great great horses and many others as well.
It would be unfair to compare horses like Secretariat or Shergar or any of the great racehorses to Arkle. I don't mean to be disrespectful to Arkle but that horse was a freak of nature and one of a kind. His ability to not only beat his opponents but to break their spirit too was unique. He destroyed a few horses during his racing career. When Arkle was put to sleep an entire nation mourned his loss.
i think secretariat and ruffian are the best racehorses ever and much more like phar lap but you now secreatiat and ruffian were cind of close related but nice video
Pharlap was bigger (17 hands) and won all major racing events in Austrlaia & shipped over to the US to win the richist race in the world on dirt track with a cracked hoof,then died at the age of 6; two weeks after winning the richist race. Secretariat never left the US!
pharlaps track record (if he never died early) would had bitlz all race horses of the furture. if there was such a thing called- return of the greatest racehorse ever; we would had to wait for pharlap return from the dead!
@Theaussiess Phar Lap was bigger?! By what, half a hand?!! Phar Lap raced against mainly chumps and milkhorses. Sec beat a strong field by 31 lengths, showing the most awesome speed and stamina of any racehorse at the closing stages of a 1.5 mile race, as he kept increasing his lead to the finish - and all of this with his jockey just hanging on! Imagine if he was actually pushed. Phar Lap would have scratched his non-existent balls in amazement, if he met the king of the stallions.
Secretariat was an absolute MONSTER on turf as well as dirt and had he been allowed to race as a 4-year-old, would probably hold every meaningful speed/distance record in horse racing. As it stands, his Belmont record is the Holy Grail of the sport.
@cf1934 I know! Some people thought Big Brown would match the legacy of SECRETARIAT!! There is no accounting for taste, it seems. How anyone can watch Secretariat's best performances and not think he's the greatest is beyond me. That horse was Babe Ruth and Michael Jordan all roled into one!!
@burkhillcomedy Rummy definitely set the bar for the steeplechase. The even more amazing thing is that he was only two second place finishes away from an impossible 5 straight Grand National crowns!
@RAV52 Agreed. Secretariat was a MONSTER Time shows in hislast race. Every metre he was getting faster and faster. They never knew what they would see out there today as he spooked at something he had seen many times before the race. its like after he knew he was won he decided to show everyone what he really had.
@RAV52 You got that right! And Ron Turcotte didn't have to beat the crap out of him either. Never laid a whip on him in the Belmont. Awesome horse! I saw it on television in 1973 and rewatch that clip allll the time. Love Secretariat!
Lets keep things in perspective - this is a class one handicap!! Always a trial to compare horses but check back on these few real champs--- Kingston Town, Phar Lap, Dulcify, Manikato ( all ran drug free unlike in the USA= see Lasix* it's allowed. USA horses rarely run & win internationally because they are just not up to the task without dope. See Hong Kong racing where they hardly get a look in. US racing was once great & they even had on-course bookmakers. Run the sport into the ground.
What was the best? Some people admire consistency others, one off performances. Best performance i've seen was Arazi in 1991 BC Juvenile. Went past top horses hard held. Most consistently brilliant was Sea the Stars.
i like all three horses but number 1 i go with secretariat he was a super horse the longer he ran the fast he went his heart was 24lbs two or three times bigger than the average horse heart
that doesn,t means anything, you can beat the fillies if you what to be the best filly ever but if you want to be the best race horse ever you HAVE to beat the boys and with world record times that is not negotiable
ive ousted secretariet and now its Phar Lap and Ruffian... Phar Lap was aboslutely amazing in what he accomplished in only 6 yrs of life, if he had lived longer he would had out shone secretariet.
Ruffian only lived 3 yrs her tragic end was sad, the trainer who trained Secretariet even said "with god as my witness, i think she may be better then secretariet" sumthin like that
Think about what they could have gained if they lived longer..
later purchased by "Ernie".....he owned the fastest milk cart in the west.
jarvsie 1 month ago
KAUTO STAR!! A TRUE LEGEND!
h8proddyuvfcuntsutra 1 month ago
@h8proddyuvfcuntsutra Kauto Star a great of his generation. That is all!
gutlesswonderfd 1 month ago
This is a handicap lol.... yes, clearly better than Nijinsky lol !
starclusteruk 2 months ago
kingston town would whip this lot running backwards
schil44 2 months ago
I seen people run faster, white dudes, this is crap, the greatest horse ever was Secretariat, Kingston Town a close 2nd
MrPlayfulxxx 2 months ago 2
@JavAr709
You seem to have found Bid's 4th ranking significantly more than 'vaguely disturbing.'
Alexducheval23 3 months ago
are you for real?....ive seen faster finishes over the grand national..
bear24rock 3 months ago
every nation has their heros. God blesses us all!
greatbigbubby 4 months ago
It's pathetic how opinions seem to cause arguments which are pointless. I'm fed up of watching vids to look down at the comments to finding kids or immature people arguing over things which need not be argued about. Please - grow up and learn to ignore other peoples comments if you do not agree. -.-'
LittleDarkFox 4 months ago
@LittleDarkFox - Arguments of "who is the greatest" are one of the foundations of ANY sport. That is just the way it is, and don't expect that angle to change in the next millenium! I do understand where you are coming from, but if you don't like these discussions, then DON'T SCROLL DOWN and simply watch the video!!!
Dannykeith46 4 months ago
@Dannykeith46 Lol, it's what open curiousity brings I am afraid. Nearly everyone who has that natural curiousity streak will look down and just peek at what others have said. :P It's not just the "Who are the greatest" in sports I am on about though - though your point is valid. I did, however mean in general.
LittleDarkFox 4 months ago
@LittleDarkFox - Perfectly understood....best regards!
Dannykeith46 4 months ago
@Dannykeith46 like I said.........
I WATCHED FUCKING SECRETARIAT YOU DUMB FUCK! He won by 31 lengths! See! Now go fuck your chickens, I'm in a bad enough mood anyway! as for @Dannykeith46, I never said anything like that, don't guess what you can't fucking know you shit headed slut face
Mizfit991 4 months ago
@Mizfit991 - feel better now that you've exhausted your finest vocabulary...is that what they they are now teaching "down under"!
Dannykeith46 4 months ago
@Dannykeith46 I'm not even IN school, I already passed!
Mizfit991 4 months ago
This horse is NOT the greatest ever. Look at Phar Lap. Look at Makybe Diva. Look at Seabiscuit. Look at War Admiral. Etc, etc. No way, try watching a Melbourne Cup someday you stupid bastard.
Mizfit991 4 months ago
@Mizfit991 - Another non-American who hates ANYTHING having to do with the United States. Secretariat would have BLASTED Phar Lap or any other Eurpoeon/Austrialian horse for that matter! Seabiscuit??? The horse, while a fan favorite LOST over 20 races smartass and take your Melbourne Cup and stick it up your ass!!!
Dannykeith46 4 months ago
@Dannykeith46 I have watched Secretariet, but as an Australian, I would like you to respect our 6 million dollar race a bit more. And I LOVE horses in the USA, we just dont GET it here. And I said etc etc, including Secretariat, and BTW I watched his movie the EXACT same night, so you take your Kentucky Derby and shove it up your ass. Phar Lap would have lost, Makybe Diva would have won. Shut the fuck up you cagna
Mizfit991 4 months ago
@Mizfit991 - Oh, and "by the way"....try watching Secretariat's Belmont Stakes to get a "real" look at what race horse perfection is all about!!!
Dannykeith46 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
It may win a 10 grand race but its a plater and slow
tamaria6564 5 months ago
Secretariat was an excellent racehorse but he dominated a relatively soft crop of three year olds, in my opinion.
His vaunted preeminence is open to question, once you factor the small fields, easy leads, and media hype into your thinking. Great horses are champions at ages two, three. ...and four.
JayAr709 5 months ago
@JayAr709 - Secretariat walluped 4 & 5 year olds in the Marlboro Cup, Man o' War Stakes and Canadian International including previous Kentucky Derby/Belmont Stakes winner Riva Ridge, former Canadian horse of the year Kennedy Road and Couger II to name just a few. Also, had a not been for Secretariat, Sham would have set TWO records for the Derby and Preakness and was a spectacular 3 year old. Bottom line is "Big Red's" times do ALL OF THE TALKING, regardless of who he is racing!
Dannykeith46 5 months ago 2
@JayAr709 Sorry, but the Experts will always disagree with you. No one horse would have ever beaten Secretariat at 2:24 flat on the dirt on June 9, 1973 and that is a fact that will not be denied. Why? Because no one horse has ever surpassed 2:25 at 1.5 miles on dirt as yet! He is the Record Holder (after 38 years) of 2 of the 3 best races in the World - the KY Derby and Belmont Stakes. His time at the Preakness would be a record if the clock hadn't malfunctioned.
Secretariat is the King!
gipper1066 5 months ago
@JayAr709 And the fields were smaller after the Derby because most horse owners realized that Secretariat and Sham were both Super Horses and didn't want to waste their horses against Superior competition. Sham still has the 2nd fastest time in the KY Derby and he finished second. Do some research... Sham would have won the Triple Crown in 1973 if Secretariat wasn't around!
gipper1066 5 months ago
@gipper1066 Sham MIGHT have won the Belmont, let's be clear because there were 7 previous horses, all great ones who succumbed to Belmont's distance prior to Sham. He is in good company but victory was not assured for certain. And to answer the what if question anyway: what was Sham's best time at 1 1/2 miles? and was that competitive to the three horses that finished ahead of him at Belmont on that day. If you can find the fact, you have at least one answer, but not a guarantee.
80cathryn 4 months ago
@80cathryn Sham only raced once at 1 1/2 miles at the Belmont. You cannot really consider that the race he would have run if Secretariat were not there. Sham was retired due to a hairline fracture in July 1973 and many suspect if might have happened during the Belmont, as Pincay was under orders to keep Sham close to a true Freak of Nature in Secretariat.. No one knows for certain. But Sham certainly was the second fastest horse in 1973 and that says quite a bit :)
gipper1066 4 months ago
@JayAr709 and finally, Secretariat is the only horse to win as a 2 and a 3 year old. Secretariat lost some races, as every horse has, but most all of his losses were due to some physical ailment usually. He still won 16 of 21 against horses of the 1970s (the best decade ever in all of Horse Racing), winning the most important races in the world and setting 2 still standing records in the process. Secretariat is the Best, hands down!
gipper1066 5 months ago
@JayAr709 Dont know history very well; Big Red was restricted by the syndication of his breeding rights owners from racing beyond 3 yr old in '73. By all rights, it would be a fun argument to discuss how many more races Big Red would have won heading into 4 an 5 year olds.
In the end however are his times. The length of time that has passed with his records untouched nor challenged; meaning no one has stepped close to the record or the margin of victory. greatest is spelled = Secretariat.
80cathryn 4 months ago
@80cathryn No one had stepped close? Ruffian shattered all of his 2 year old records, and did what he did not do, which was winning her maiden by 15 lengths, and shattering the track record for 5 1/2 furlongs for any 2 year old that had ever raced there, When Ruffian ran in the 1 1/2 mile Coaching club american oaks, she went straight to the lead, and was in the lead by 6 lengths and widening, then the jockey pulled her back, people say if she been allowed to run she wouldve beaten reds record!
RuffianQueenOfRacing 4 months ago
@RuffianQueenOfRacing - You just don't gt it...do you! Ruffian was held back at the CCO? What about Secretariat in the Belmont? He was "hand ridden" the WHOLE race...no whip/stick...only a Turcotte hand ride the full 1-1/2 mile distance and STILL RAN a 2:24 flat!!! Don't tell me Ruffian would have made up 18 lengths if she was pushed...do you realize what 18 lengths is? Ruffian was truely awesome (top 5 in my opinion) but she would have NEVER come close to Sec's Belmont time...NO ONE WILL!
Dannykeith46 4 months ago
@Dannykeith46 no YOU dont get it! Ruffian was in the lead by 6 lengths not even 10 seconds after she left the gate and was widening! she had a faster quater then secretariat did in his belmont! then vasquez held her back, because she would of kept running! you know who was ridding equal change? TURCOTTE! he even said to vasquez, that if ruffian had run, not even secretariat could have caught her!
as whiteley said! i dont recall ANY horse winning their miaden by 15 and in record time? do you!?
RuffianQueenOfRacing 4 months ago
@RuffianQueenOfRacing - WHO THE$#$@#$%$ cares about a 5-1/2 furlong maiden race??? You are right....NO HORSE would have beaten Ruffian that day but NO ONEreally gives a hoot about 5-1/2 furlongs! The title of "greatest horse ever" is bestowne upon a horse that was SUPERIOR at mile+ distances....that is waht you simply don't understand!
Dannykeith46 4 months ago
@Dannykeith46 secretariat couldnt win 5 1/2 furlong race maiden! no horse, no matter the distance has won the way Ruffian did her maiden, which puts her above secretariat, not even he could have done that! Have you watched sports flash back of Ruffian? how many times the word perfect was used to describe her, how may times the word greatest was used to describe her! have you seen the headline of a magazine "Ruffian vs Secretariat, filly wins by inches" every one then thought she was better!
RuffianQueenOfRacing 4 months ago
@RuffianQueenOfRacing - Are you trying to tell me that Ruffian's 15 length maiden win is more impressive than Sec's 2:24 mile and a half 31 length Belmont marvel. If you are you then are a complete fool and I am fighting with an idoit!. Keep that thought low key before you are locked up for lunacy! Also, the fact that you have Zenyatta & Rachel Alexander on a list that EXCLUDES Man o'War, Spectacular Bid & Seattle Slew proves you know absoltely NOTHING! ARE YOU KIDDING ME!
Dannykeith46 4 months ago
@Dannykeith46 yes i am saying that, because secretariat had raced before he won the belmont, ruffian had never raced before she won her maiden, she had never faced another horses, but secretariat had, so he knew what tto do!
Ruffian had a faster quater in her 1 1/2 miles then secretariat had in his, also, i had man o war on my list, or are you blind? he was a good horse but most of his races were only against 2 other horses, and his times are nothing special! Perfect is the word for Ruffian
RuffianQueenOfRacing 4 months ago
@RuffianQueenOfRacing - My Bad...I did miss Man o' War! You are the SOLE person in the universe that would think a a bull#$#$% 5-1/2 furlong Maiden race would be more significant than the 1-1/2 mile Belmont Stakes. Also, what in God's name are you talking about when you say Ruffian had a faster quarter than SEC in the 1-1/2 mile? Who cares and what does that mean? Its a mile and a half race and the FINAL TIME is what counts...do you make this up as you go along???
Dannykeith46 4 months ago
@Dannykeith46 im not the sole person in the universe, Andy Beyer said Ruffian was the fastest horse he had ever seen, Jess Jackson said she was the greatest horse of the 20th century, Frank Whitely said she was the greatest horse he had trained, Vasquez said she was the fastest he had ever ridden! how can i possibly place Zenyatta and Rachel on a top 10 list? BECAUSE ITS MY LIST you idiot! Just as you list was your list! YOUR oppinion! did you see me slamming you for it? NO so grow up a little!
RuffianQueenOfRacing 4 months ago
@RuffianQueenOfRacing - All true but only a handful of opinions. If you surveyed 100 experts/historians, AT LEAST 75% would pick Secretariat as the greatest horse ever including Chrales Hatton, Hollinsworth and Eddie Arcaro who rode Ciation & Kelso! Also, glad you mentioned Andy Beyer beacuse he stated that SEC's Belmont was the most extraordinary run in horse racing history, NEVER to be duplicated again because Sec extended himself BEYOND the laws of physics!
Dannykeith46 4 months ago
@RuffianQueenOfRacing - I want you to ask yourself one simple question - how can you possiby place a fillie #1 on an ALL-TIME list that ran only 10 races and NEVER beat a colt??? I fully admit that her 5-1/2 - 6 furlong times were extraordinary but her mile+ times were good, certainly NOT eye popping. This is NOT a SEC issue because VIRTUALLY EVERYONE KNOWS SEC is the greatest American race horse ever. Forget SEC and think about the fact that Ruffian NEVER beat a COLT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dannykeith46 4 months ago
@RuffianQueenOfRacing - ONE FINAL NOTE - Whitely NEVER trained Secretariat, Man o' War, Count Fleet, Citation, Spectacular Bid, etc. so his "Ruffian is the greatest horse I ever trained" statement means absolutely NOTHING in a "greatest ever poll"! Vasquez NEVER rode Secretariat so his statement means NOTHING! But when a legendary jockey such as Eddie Arcaro who DID ride Citation & Kelso says with 100% certainty that Secretariat is the greatest horse ever, THAT MEANS SOMETHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dannykeith46 4 months ago
@Dannykeith46 whitelely trained champions such as Damascus, forego and so on! so his opinion DOES count, also, vasquez beat secretariat twice, so his opinion counts too!
you say that vasquez opinion doesnt count because he didnt ride secretariat and then you throw in another person who never rode secretariat either! so i guess that means his opinion doesnt count either! bart cummings says Ruffian was the greatest he had seen, and i repeat jess jackson said she was the greatest of the century
RuffianQueenOfRacing 4 months ago
@RuffianQueenOfRacing - In 1999, Bloodhorse Magazine (the most respected American Race Horse Periodical) chose a panel of 7 of the most intelligent and respected analysts/experts to choose the top 100 horses of all-time. (1) Man o' War (2) Secretariat....(35) Ruffian!!! In fact, Bill Nack stated the ONLY REASON SEC wasn't #1 was because one writer did not like Sec & gave him a ridiculous low score. I admit, Ruffian at#35 is wrong but remember- Ruffian NEVER BEAT A COLT- case closed!!!!!!
Dannykeith46 4 months ago
@Dannykeith46 Nack said he wanted to place Ruffian #13 ALSO just because she didnt beat a colt doesnt mean SHIT! her CCAO was faster then that years belmont, and every colt that raced when she did, save for forego had 2-3 seconds slower times then Ruffian, she didnt have to beat the colts in a race, she just had to beat their times CASE CLOSED!
also, ruffian had a fracture in her back leg which is why she was scratched
RuffianQueenOfRacing 4 months ago
@RuffianQueenOfRacing - I AGREE with Nack & already said Ruffian should be between 5 and 10. However, you CANNOT say that NOT beating a colt means shit & I'll tell you why. In a mile+ race, when a horse is challenged (like Foolish Pleasure challenged Ruffian), things happen like serious "fatigue". Just because Ruffian was faster than most colts doen't mean she would have outlasted them say from 1-1/8 miles to 1-1/2 miles. THAT IS THE ISSUE & because we DONT know, NO WAY she can EVER be#1!
Dannykeith46 4 months ago
@RuffianQueenOfRacing - If you think Ruffian could have ever matched Secretariat's 2:24 in the Belmont you are a complete fool! Her 2:27-3/5 time in the CCAO was good but 3-3/5 seconds (18 lengths) BEHIND Sec's and Ruffian was challenged by a filly who lost by only 2 -3 lengths so DON'T say she was coasting. Sec was coasting my friend and still broke the "WORLD RECORD" by 10 lengths! Of course Ruffian COULD HAVE beaten colts - but she didn't which is why with only 10 races she can't be #1!!!
Dannykeith46 4 months ago
@RuffianQueenOfRacing - Oh and by the way, it slipped through the cracks that you had the audacity to place Genuine Risk AHEAD of Secretariat? You are absolutely insane!!! I now see that you must be some "women's lib" advocater with 4 fillies on the top 10 all-time list! I will no longer argue with you because I now understand you are a frustrated women's lib individual and that is EXACTLY where all of this is coming from!!! Genuine Risk over Sec...why not "Miss Piggy and Cindarella too???
Dannykeith46 4 months ago
@Dannykeith46 DAMN! i so forgot to add miss piggy and cinderella! thanks for remindingme! looks like secretariat now sits at #5 on my list =P
RuffianQueenOfRacing 4 months ago
@RuffianQueenOfRacing - Genuine Risk # 2 and ahead of Secretariat???????????.....lol.....lol...lol....lol...lol...lol....lol...lol....lol....you are now, officially, the laughing stock of race horse analysis with ZERO credibility to your posts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Even "Ruffian" would be laughing at you!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dannykeith46 4 months ago
@Dannykeith46 maybe add sleeping beauty too? and bella? yes i think so =D
RuffianQueenOfRacing 4 months ago
@RuffianQueenOfRacing - lol! Peace! Let's just say Secretariat was the greatest colt & Ruffian the greatest filly evert! FYI, Whiteley did scratch Ruffian on the morning of Sept. 26, 1974 from racing in the Frizette Stakes because he noticed she haden't eaten and was running a low temperature. That is a fact. About a week later, they found the hairline fracture which ended her 1974 season. Whiteley was a FAR better trainer than Lauren & would have rightly scratched SEC in 2 of his losses!
Dannykeith46 4 months ago
@Dannykeith46 look man, im not going to argue with you on 2 different videos about something that is clear we wont ever agree on! also! i ranked GR above SEC on MY list, because its MY oppinion, NOT yours so stop trying to take control when it is my oppinion not anyone elses! did i slam you for your "top 10 list'? no i did not! because i have more sence then that! because i am actually mature enough to know that it was in your oppinion! so back off about it and shut up about it!
RuffianQueenOfRacing 4 months ago
@RuffianQueenOfRacing - I have scanned virtually every expert "greatest horse" list including the OFFICIAL "Bloodhorse" poll with SEC and Man o' War listed as 1 & 2 (in any order) on EVERY list but YOUR opinion changes everything. Obviously, if Sec/Man o' War were fillies they would be tops on your list. Your love/zeal for fillies blinds you to the obvious truth. PS - SEC "looped along" to a 2:24 1-1/2 mile WORLD RECORD dirt run so why do you keep talking to a 2:27.8 time that means NOTHING!
Dannykeith46 4 months ago
@RuffianQueenOfRacing - Maybe current Yankee left fielder Bret Gardner is a greater power hitter than Babe Ruth because it is my opinion??? That is how stupid your opinion looks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dannykeith46 4 months ago
@Dannykeith46 oh so that is really your oppinion? WOW! and you say my oppinion is stupid? WOWOWOWOW! seriously man, keep replying, you just continue to show how pathetic you are! Cant handle someone elses oppinion so you just turn into a real american... so sad...
RuffianQueenOfRacing 4 months ago
@RuffianQueenOfRacing - A "real AMERICAN" is superior to any form of humanity on the face of the earth you absolute idiot. By the way, maybe Ruffian "snapped" her leg because she couldn't handle the stress of finally having a "REAL HORSE" running right with her for the first time ever, other than those pathetic fillies she was beating up on that couldn't outrun a turtle!!!!!! Some experts DO believe that is the case because Foolish Pleasure would have pushed her right to the finish line!
Dannykeith46 4 months ago
@Dannykeith46 that statement is completely irrelivent, because Hot n Nasty stuck with Ruffian the entire way around the track, and did Ruffian crack under the pressure then? NO! BTW Hot n Nasty had won her maiden by 13 lengths, and won 2 stakes races (one being the hollywood lassie/landaluce stakes) and was undefeated in those 3 starts, now if that filly AND laughing bridge are horses you say couldnt outrun a "turtle" then think again
RuffianQueenOfRacing 4 months ago
@RuffianQueenOfRacing - yeahhhhhhhhhh....I hear alot of people still discussing "Hot n Nasty's and Laughing Bridge's legacy....keep dreaming pal...someday you'll wake up from that coma you slipped into many years ago!!!!!!
Dannykeith46 4 months ago
@Dannykeith46 dont hate just because i smashed your so called "fact" so run along now, you are to infatuated with secretariat... i have no respect for people who do not respect other peoples oppinions
RuffianQueenOfRacing 4 months ago
@RuffianQueenOfRacing - First & Foremost, you should remove yourself from this board because you are not "worthy" to discuss horse racing on a Secretariat Belmont Stakes forum! Secondly, I always respect people's opinion's when they are within "reason". I will discuss a Ruffian vs. Sec argument because "at least" Ruffian was a super horse, but when you place Genuine Risk ahead of Sec you lose ALL CREDIBILITY!!!!! ANY horse racing expert would "dismiss" you as a complete idiot!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dannykeith46 4 months ago
@Dannykeith46 if greedy american breeders would hold off on racing till their horses are grown these horrible injuries wouldn't happen. they even force babies to run in speed tests to attract buyers and it's heartbreaking to see the babies have heart attacks. compound fractures-then run along on the broken stump. breeders are lousy cruel money-grubbing bastards and i hope they rot in hell
greatbigbubby 4 months ago
@greatbigbubby - You just might be right my friend! I also recently learned that many "retired" horses are slaughtered in Sweden & Japan when they have no more use for them, an absolutely disgusting exercise. Included in this group was the great Ferdinand with no apparent explanation. One thing America has done in the past decade is to eliminate the unnecessary slaughter of thoroughbred race horses. I agree with you that these are wonderful animals are seriously abused by greed.
Dannykeith46 4 months ago
@Dannykeith46 it's just amazing how these beautiful faithful horses make them rich and they treat them like disposable soldiers. our racehorses are still slaughtered. just awful. when there's a gas crunch and our fuel is rationed for military only-i'll be riding my horses and those cruel s.o.b.'s can suffer. christians believe this is wrong; a righteous man cares for the needs of his animal; the wild animals honor Me.
greatbigbubby 4 months ago
@RuffianQueenOfRacing - Vasquez beat Sec when he was ill with an abcess & virus. Remember, Whitely "scratched" Ruffian from a stakes race when she was running a low grade fever AND the great Man o' War was scratched from the KENTUCY DERBY because he was likewise under the weather. Both trainers were 100% correct! Tweedie & Lauren should BOTH be ashamed of themselves for running Sec when he wasn't right. They thought his supernatural level could offset his illness..doesn't work with horses!
Dannykeith46 4 months ago
@RuffianQueenOfRacing - One last issue: How can you possibly place Zenyatta & Rachel Alexander on a top 10 list over Count Fleet, Spectacular Bid, Kelso and Seattle Slew...you are joking right? I AM beginning to see now where you are coming from...you are an advocate for fillies!!! Whatever you may think, the ONLY filly that can stake a claim on the top 10 list is Ruffian (no doubt!) and with only 10 races, never beating a colt and NO spectacular mile+ times, she can't match Secretariat!!!!!
Dannykeith46 4 months ago
@RuffianQueenOfRacing - VIRTUALLY EVERY RACING EXPERT AGREES that Sec's Belmont is the greatest achievment EVER...you are fighting a LOSING BATTLE. Everything with you and Ruffian is "if"...."if she didn't break her leg she would have...", if she wasn't held back she would have..."....ANF IF MY AUNT HAD BALLS SHE WOULD BE MY UNCLE!!!! Get the point! Sec's record track & world times are for ALL horses..facts! Ruffian's stakes records are for mostly Phillies...big difference!
Dannykeith46 4 months ago
Last but not least....Ruffian NEVER beat a colt! For the record I do believe she would have beat Foolish Pleasure by a length or two at the wire (and I was rooting hard for Ruffian) but once again, that is ONLY pure conjecture. After reviewing your top 10 list one more time, the fact you placed Genuine Risk over Sec is irrefutable proof you have no business even discussing any greatest horse list. No Spectacular Bid and Man o' War with Zenyatta and Rachel Alexander...ludicrous!
Dannykeith46 4 months ago
@RuffianQueenOfRacing - You continue to let your emotions and love for Ruffian cloud your judgement. Forget conjecture, it means absolutely NOTHING! I LOVED Ruffian as much as anyone and cried my eyes out when she broke down. However, FACTS ARE Sec's BEST mile+ times are far better than Ruffian's BEST mile+ times, case closed...discussion ENDED! Ruffian may have been the faster 5 - 7 furlong sprinter, but she simply can't match SEC"s best mile+ times...NO ONE REALLY CARES ABOUT 5/6 furlongs!
Dannykeith46 4 months ago
@RuffianQueenOfRacing - FYI, here are my top 10 AMERICAN horses of all-time: (1)/(2) Secretariat/Man o' War (place them in any 1/2 order and you can argue either scenario, (3) Citation, (4) Spectacular Bid, (5) Ruffian, (6) Count Fleet, (7) Kelso, (8) Seatlle Slew, (9) Dr. Fager, (10) Native Dancer/Affirmed. Just an opinion and, of course, very subjective. People will blast me for placing Ruffian ahead of horses like Slew & Dr. Fager but I truely believe she was better!
Dannykeith46 4 months ago
@Dannykeith46 1Ruffian, 2Genuine Risk, 3Secretariat, 4Citation, 5Native Dancer, 6Zenyatta, 7Man O War, 8Rachel Alexandra, 9Forego, 10Personal Ensign!!!
top 10 aussie horses:
1Tranquil Star, 2Phar Lap, 3Flight, 4Peter Pan, 5Ajax, 6Jorrocks, 7Carbine, 8Sunline, 9Makybe Diva, 10Russia. And im guessing you know who Phar Lap is? I placed the mare tranquil star before him on my list, as her record is outstanding for any horse being 111 starts: 23-20-12, she ran from 5 furlongs to 14 furlongs!
RuffianQueenOfRacing 4 months ago
@Dannykeith46 oh and with my top 10 aussie horses, i made it top 11, putting Wakeful, as number 2, and the rest being moved down, wakeful is a mare that should really be known more, she has a spectacular caree, and it would not hurt for you to look up her and tranquil star to see that america is not the only country that has good horses!
RuffianQueenOfRacing 4 months ago
@Dannykeith46 In my opinion, Spectacular Bid's phenomenal 4-year old record would be dotted with 2's had Affirmed raced at age 5.
If Spectacular Bid COULD pass Affirmed -- something he never managed to do, in reality -- I suspect he would do so about as often as Alydar accomplished the feat. Consequently, your "top 10" ranking of the Bid 4th, and Affirmed 10th, is something I find amusing, if vaguely disturbing. But then, I won't be joining the metronomic lockstep of Secretariat's fans, either.
JayAr709 4 months ago
@JayAr709 - FYI, I placed Bid 4th because of his "Spectacular" times incl. his World Record 1-1/4 dirt mile 1:157-4/5 marvel. They are BOTH great horses and deserving of top 10 stature. Regarding your Secretariat comment, "get over it" please. The issue with SEC detractors is they simply CANNOT accept his miraculous track & World Record performances including ALL 3 TC records and some supernatural fractions along the way. The foremost TRACK ANALYSTS stand by this notion..I am NOT alone!
Dannykeith46 4 months ago
Secretariat is the greatest horse ever
CyBeRTRoNFLuX 6 months ago
You guys ! red rum was the fastest
Msmusicca 6 months ago
@Msmusicca Black Caviar is the fastest sprinter in the world :p
johnofohu123 6 months ago
also @gipper, ruffian never lost against a filly, but secretariat did!
RuffianQueenOfRacing 6 months ago
@RuffianQueenOfRacing Ok, would love to know who you think the filly was that Secretariat lost to? He lost 5 races, only one out of the money and none of the horses finishing ahead of him were fillies.
gipper1066 6 months ago
@gipper1066 that got your attention didnt it! you said it, HE LOST 5 TIMES! Ruffian none! MOW once, and niether ruffian nor mow finished 4th!
RuffianQueenOfRacing 6 months ago
@RuffianQueenOfRacing LOL Ruffian raced in the in filly races, not Triple Crown races as Secretariat did. No disrespect meant, but it's simply not the same. Comparing the races that Ruffian ran were shorter distances than what Secretariat ran, plus the fact that Secretariat raced against colts and not fillies. So you're admitting you tried to bait me with the lie about Secretariat having been beaten by a filly? I already knew that was never true ;-P LOL
gipper1066 6 months ago
@RuffianQueenOfRacing What is certainly true is that Ruffian was a Freak of Nature (over 17 hands tall) born to race and conquer all horses on the Filly end and Secretariat was a Freak of Nature (22 pound heart, more than 2.5 times the size of a normal horse's heart) that was born to race and conquer on the Stallion side of racing. Both certainly accomplished what they were born for!
gipper1066 6 months ago
......FASHION......
RuffianQueenOfRacing 6 months ago
you all want the greatest racehorse ever? try looking up a 18 hundreds race mare "Fashion" now there, the greatest racehorse has NEVER had such a perfect example!
RuffianQueenOfRacing 7 months ago
The major difference separating Secretariat and Ruffian is the distance! Keep in mind when Sec was thrashing every 2 year old, everyone stated he needs to prove he can be dominate as a 3 year-old at distances greater than a mile. If you look at Ruffian's times for a 1-1/8 mile or greater, they are pale in comparison to Secretariat. At less than a mile distances, Ruffian was slightly quicker, but at a mile or greater, Secretariat rules...the true benchmark of the greatest horse ever!
Dannykeith46 7 months ago 2
@Dannykeith46 Thank you, thank you, thank you. Your point is sooooo accurate. Comparing the two is apples and oranges, no dissn Ruffian, but she never raced in any distance race like Kentucky Derby, Preakness, and Belmont. These three races ARE the benchmark of greatness. Required not only speed but endurance, both of which Secretariat had. Secretariat is the best and will always be.
1MTSRider 6 months ago 4
@1MTSRider - In fact, when Ruffian ran the 1-1/2 mile in one leg of her Philly TC triumph, her time was 2:27 in change which is not embarrasing at all, but still some 18 lengths behind Secretariat's Belmont Stakes run. Secretariat also ran a 2:26-3/5 IN THE RAIN SOAKED MUD when he LOST to Prove Out and a remarkable 2:24-4/5 in his 1st turf race in his Man o' War stakes triumph. Ruffian simply can't match up to Big Red at that distance......in her defense.......who can???
Dannykeith46 6 months ago 2
@Dannykeith46 18 lengths, not 31? meaning she would have finished before all the others
RuffianQueenOfRacing 6 months ago
@RuffianQueenOfRacing - What's your point??? Are you gloating Ruffian would have beaten Twice a Prince by 13 lengths and finished 18 lengths BEHIND Secretariat? We are talking about Secretariat vs. Ruffian! If it makes your day, I do AGEE Ruffian was better than Sham, Twice a Prince, My Gallant and Private Smiles, all of the horses that Secretariat "left for dead" in the Belmont Stakes. In fact, Ruffian is on my top 10 American horse list of all-time. She is just not close to Secretariat!
Dannykeith46 6 months ago
@Dannykeith46 of she is "just not close" then why did his trainer say she might be better then him after she won the comely?
RuffianQueenOfRacing 6 months ago
@RuffianQueenOfRacing - Do your homework! Lucien Lauren retracted that statement, saying that Ruffian's long distance times could not compete with Big Red. Don't you get it.. Ruffian's mile or greater times simply can't compare to Secretariat. This isn't opinion, it is simply FACT!!! Bottom line is the title of "the greatest horse ever" cannot be bestowed upon a horse who ruled with short distance sprints. Ruffian was GREAT, no doubt, but she falls short to Secretariat over long distances!
Dannykeith46 6 months ago
@Dannykeith46 YOU need fact, lauren never "retracted" that statement! and you talk to ME about FACTS!? get over yourself!
RuffianQueenOfRacing 6 months ago
@RuffianQueenOfRacing - Yes he did you absolute fool. He "hedged" against it stating that Ruiffian was the faster horse between 5 - 7 furlongs, but Secretariat was superior at a mile or greater. You obviously don't know what you are talking about because anyone who compares Ruffian to Secretariat at a mile or greater distances is not an intelligent horse racing enthusiast. The "Times" DON"T LIE and Ruffian's mile or greater times fall far short ...why don't you answer to that????
Dannykeith46 6 months ago
@Dannykeith46 no he didnt, you are a pathetic person!
she beat one of his miles by 1 second and he beat her mile by 1!
she beat 3 of his 1 1/8 miles and one was by over 2 seconds! secretatiat only beat hers twice!
and ruffian was held up at down the stretch in the coaching, but she still has the fastest 1 1/2 m time for a filly!
far short? LOL get your facts right before you let your fingers flitter!
RuffianQueenOfRacing 6 months ago
@RuffianQueenOfRacing - Bottom line is Secretariat's BEST TIMES at a mile or better are ALL FAR BETTER than Ruffian's BEST TIMES...don't make me post the official times but if I have to I will you ignorant fool!!! By the way, I am still waiting for a response regarding Secretariat's 2:24 mile and a half vs. Ruffian's best 2:27 in change or an 18 length disparity...why don't you answer tyo that??????????????????
Dannykeith46 6 months ago
@Dannykeith46 bottom line is, you were wrong when you said ruffians records were far short!
ruffian was held back in the coaching jacinto said he held her back, she was running the field by 5 lengths then went to 6 and then jacinto reigned her in!
fact is secretatiat doesnt hold the world record for a 1 1/2 for all, he only holds it on dirt! ive seen a horse run 1 1/2 on sand in 2:23.40, and not to mention that secretariat couldnt handle the weight of a true champion for a 1 1/2m!
RuffianQueenOfRacing 6 months ago
@RuffianQueenOfRacing - anyone knows that dirt is a tougher surface to run faster times on than turf for long distances with 7 of the 8 world records far faster on turf. NEXT - Sec fastest 1 mile (1:33-2/5); Ruffian (1:34-2/5) - 5 lenghths or STRIKE 1! Sec fastest 1-1/8 mile (1:45-2/5 & an original dirt World Record); Ruffian (1:47-4/5) - 12 lengths or STRIKE 2! Sec fastest 1-1/2 mile (2:24 - dirt World Record); Ruffian (2:27-2/5) - 17 lengths or STRIKE 3 you are out of here!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dannykeith46 6 months ago
@RuffianQueenOfRacing - I am NOT DONE...Secretariat still holds the 1-1/4 mile Kentucky Derby record at 1:59-2/5 and shares the unofficial Preakness record at 1:53-2/5 which means he has ALL THREE Triple Crown Records for races that are virtually 140 years old!!!! We cannot compare 1-1/4 mile fractions because Ruffian never ran that distance in an official race, but we KNOW Ruffian would have NEVER run a 1:59-2/5 or better. P.S. - I loved Ruffian and she was the faster sprinter but NO BIG RED!
Dannykeith46 6 months ago
@Dannykeith46 never run a faster 1 1/4? then how come she was running faster in the match race then secretariat did in the belmont? ALSO dont talk to me about not needing thw whip when ruffian only had the whip used on her in one race and only 2 hits in it! thats more then 90% try 99%!
RuffianQueenOfRacing 6 months ago
@RuffianQueenOfRacing - Please don't make be "knock" Ruffian because she was truly great, but how can you compare fractions to a race that was incomplete. You continue to use senseless statements vs. sheer facts! I want you to strongly think about this next statement....Secretariat ran a WORLD RECORD 1-1/2 miles on dirt being via a "hand ride" the WHOLE race. He also unofficially set the 1-5/8 WORLD RECORD after a 1/8 mile GALLUP, besting "Swaps" still standing record by 3/5 of a second!
Dannykeith46 6 months ago
@RuffianQueenOfRacing - Last but not least...Turcott nearly never went to the whip on Sec and really hand rode him in 90% of his races inclduing his record breaking Kentucky Derby, Preakness, Belmont Stakes, Marlboro Cup and Man o' War Stakes. Oh, by the way, Sec ran a sizzling 2:24-4/5 in this FIRST turf race in the Man o' War, still a stakes record, and when he LOST to Prove Out his 1-1/2 mile time was 2:26-3/5 IN THE MUD! Ruffian was fast but she could NEVER keep up to Sec after 1 mile!
Dannykeith46 6 months ago
@RuffianQueenOfRacing - Awfully quiet on the homefront - the "times" got your tongue??? Oh by the way, regarding your comment about a horse running a 2:23-2/5 time in the sand, why don't you find that sand and bury your head completely in it before you embarrass yourself with further ludicrous statements. ANYONE who tries to downgrade/minimize Secretariat's Belmont Stakes run is a complete fool since it is widely regarded as the greatest single performance in thoroughbred race horse history!
Dannykeith46 6 months ago
@Dannykeith46 hey not my fault i have a life away from the computer to losers like you =P
RuffianQueenOfRacing 6 months ago
@RuffianQueenOfRacing - I admit Ruffian was a faster sprinter between 5 - 7 furlongs, but she simply can't compete with Sec at long distances. There is no shame in that. Secretariat is widely considerd the greatest horse ever BECAUSE of his numerous distance track/world records. Unfortunately, we will never know how Ruffian's 1 mile+ times would have evolved beacuse of her tragic death. She was truly great but falls short of Sec beacause of his world class distance times....PEACE my friend!
Dannykeith46 6 months ago
@Dannykeith46 if the greatest horse ever was to be established upon distances and records then it would easily go to Fashion, ive mentioned her many times, she who holds the record for being undefeated in herfirst 23 starts, she who still holds the world record for 4 miles, and always ran at 2-3 miles, beating the great Boston twice, and has a record of 36: 32-4-0, she who beat the great boston by many lengths in the match race, setting the record for 4m with people running infront of her
RuffianQueenOfRacing 6 months ago
@RuffianQueenOfRacing - Good point but unfortunately the American horse racing world focuses on 1 - 2 mile distances. Don't ask me why but that's just the way it is. I remember when Sec was blowing away horses as a 2 year old at 6 furlong distances, everyone said let's see him do it between 1 - 1-1/2 miles and then his supporters can talk. Everyone downgarded his awesome 2 year old year until he proved himself as a 3 year old at the greater distances. Who makes these standards I don't know??
Dannykeith46 6 months ago
@Dannykeith46 Fashion was an american racehorse, horse races are easy compared to how they were back when Fashion raced, people could run out on the track, throw knives, bottles, anything at the horses to get them to lose.... more horses broke down then compared to now, which is why horses like Fashion should be given the chance to be judged great of them all, when having to race under those conditions
RuffianQueenOfRacing 6 months ago
@RuffianQueenOfRacing - From what I have read, many experts agree that distances between 1-1/8 to 1-1/2 miles present the best balance between speed and stamina which is why Secretariat and other great horses took "crap" for their 2 year old 6 furlong distances. I think that stance, WHETHER RIGHT OR WRONG (who knows for sure???) is what solidifies Secretariat's place as the greatest American race horse ever. Bottom line is BOTH Sec and Ruffian were SUPER horses with unprecedented ability!
Dannykeith46 6 months ago
@Dannykeith46 Ruffian didnt take crap for her 2 year old season, they say she had one of these best ever with records she set, how she won her maiden, her 3 year old season winning the triple tiara, no horse could have caught her in those races, as no horse could have could secretariat in the belmont, but like you said ruffian would have finished 17-18 lengths behind him, with her time in the CAO, with no horse infront of her, but she would not have let sec get that far away from her in a race.
RuffianQueenOfRacing 6 months ago
@RuffianQueenOfRacing - True. In reality, Sec would have probably bested Ruffian at the Belmont by 8 - 10 lengths because I can't see Ruffian exceeding a 2:26 time for 1-1/2 miles. Regarding Ruffian's 2 year old season you are 100% correct, but the reason is that more empahsis is placed on distance with colts than a philly. The #1 in American race horsing is the TC:.Kentucky Derby, Preakness, Belmont. Far less emphasis is placed on the Philly TC. Again....who knows who sets these standards?
Dannykeith46 6 months ago
@Dannykeith46 ruffian isnt considered by some to be worthy of being called great because she didnt face a male, but she did, and peoples response to that is "she couldnt handle him" which is absolute crap! she was running him by almost half a length!
RuffianQueenOfRacing 6 months ago
@RuffianQueenOfRacing - Don't listed to that "crap" for one second! On any given day, Ruffian could beat any horse, including Secretariat. She is EASILY one of the top 10 horses of all time. Let's put it this way, especially from a "sprinter" perspective, how many colts could run 6 furlongs in 108-3/5 seconds??? There is your answer to ANYONE who thinks Ruffian couldn't beat a good colt. Her incredible sprinting speed is synonymous to Sec's unparalleled long distance dominance!!!
Dannykeith46 6 months ago
@1MTSRider ruffian ran at 6 different distances, and at 1mile 1 1/8 and 1 1/2!
RuffianQueenOfRacing 6 months ago
@1MTSRider In the US maybe.But please dont include the ROW and europe in your 'GOAT' theory.There are many horses in europe that would have given the Sec more than just a race.
JUVEXX11 5 months ago
@JUVEXX11 - NOT ON JUNE 9th 1973! ANY HORSE in thoroughbred history would have fell victim to Secretariat at the Belmont Stakes. At his best (peak value), Secretariat was a bottomess pit of sheer power who could accomplish anything exceeding the realm of possibility like increasing his Kentucky Derby speed for each quarter mile right up to the finish line! That seems virtually impossible...a 23 second final quarter time after already running a full mile...who does that...are you kidding me!!!
Dannykeith46 5 months ago
secertariat could beat any horse that lived and that will ever live!
horse123justinbieber 7 months ago
Ruffian is not just one of the greatest female thoroughbred racehorses in history but one of the greatest racehorses of either gender. The trainer of Secretariat, Lucien Laurin, said this to the press, "As God as my witness, she may even be better than Secretariat."
johnofohu123 7 months ago
Ruffian is better then big red same with man o war he won one of his races by over 100 lenghs thank you very much
johnofohu123 7 months ago
@johnofohu123 WHAT?!? Oh my word, please - Secretariat WAS and IS the greatest racehorse ever. At the Belmont he was accelerating faster every 1/4 mile, when he hit the finish line he was still accelerating. He broke the track record by 2 3/5 secs, a record which may stand FOREVER!!! No doubt Ruffian, Man O War, were awesome great racehorses, so was Seattle Slew, but facts are facts. Anyone IN horseracing will say the same. All will be compared to Secretariat, he was a supernatural being.
1MTSRider 7 months ago
@1MTSRider Ruffian was better in all her races SO THATS A FACT he only had that one time she was always at the top no horse had even got a chance to bring her down she broke all track records in every one of her races but Big red and Ruffian ran in didn't races so don't try saying hes better when they never raced and her times are better and man o war had that one record that Big red didn't even came close too but i don't know what race it said i'm not saying he is bad i'm just saying facts
johnofohu123 7 months ago
Leaping Plum gets my vote.
atokadjoe 8 months ago
i forgot about kincsem look him up this record will never be touched over 50 races without defeat and included many group 1 races from around europe
burkhillcomedy 8 months ago
redrum over the national fences,desert orchid and kauto around kempton and the new wonder horse frankel all great horses
burkhillcomedy 8 months ago
No one horse is THE best. Secretariat was truly great as was EG Brigadier Gerard with 17 from 18 only ever beaten by a Derby winner and winning 12 G.1s. As was the simply breathtaking Sea Bird, as was Arkle as a jumper, as was the superb Mill Reef over 12 furlongs.....all great great horses and many others as well.
tigerarmyrule 8 months ago
It would be unfair to compare horses like Secretariat or Shergar or any of the great racehorses to Arkle. I don't mean to be disrespectful to Arkle but that horse was a freak of nature and one of a kind. His ability to not only beat his opponents but to break their spirit too was unique. He destroyed a few horses during his racing career. When Arkle was put to sleep an entire nation mourned his loss.
celticlofts 9 months ago
haha the horse rode the rail and won by a length. lololol
britget2003g 9 months ago
the word Arkle mean anything to this poster because if not they know fuck all about horses.
NeilTheFerret1 9 months ago
Errr.. Shergar, Nijinsky, Desert Orchid, Arkle, Kauto Star.. And Red Rum.
Jdpoc 9 months ago
@Jdpoc add in Denman.
NeilTheFerret1 9 months ago
all though a great horse to a lot of you i,m adraid shergar would have kicked all there arses end of.
hansolo555 9 months ago
Not at all the greatest, not at all ...
mgbuk 9 months ago
People comparing horses across generations and across continents need to really get a life
89Djm 9 months ago
ARKLE WAS THE GREATEST RACEHORSE EVER
Daragh09 9 months ago 2
@Daragh09 Y'know I've never forgotten Arkle, watching that horse was a thrill I haven't felt since...until Black Caviar.
tigerscriber 9 months ago
The who?!! - LOL!! Secretariat is the greatest racehorse of all time
rcschumann 10 months ago
best horse ever is sea the stars without a doubt
liamobrien06 10 months ago
i think secretariat and ruffian are the best racehorses ever and much more like phar lap but you now secreatiat and ruffian were cind of close related but nice video
ruffianruleswolfrule 10 months ago
not even close.best ever was Dancing brave
jackierubberleg 10 months ago
Secretariat is the greatest racehorse ever, I agree.
Quarterhorsecowgirl7 11 months ago
Pharlap was bigger (17 hands) and won all major racing events in Austrlaia & shipped over to the US to win the richist race in the world on dirt track with a cracked hoof,then died at the age of 6; two weeks after winning the richist race. Secretariat never left the US!
pharlaps track record (if he never died early) would had bitlz all race horses of the furture. if there was such a thing called- return of the greatest racehorse ever; we would had to wait for pharlap return from the dead!
Theaussiess 11 months ago
@Theaussiess Phar Lap was bigger?! By what, half a hand?!! Phar Lap raced against mainly chumps and milkhorses. Sec beat a strong field by 31 lengths, showing the most awesome speed and stamina of any racehorse at the closing stages of a 1.5 mile race, as he kept increasing his lead to the finish - and all of this with his jockey just hanging on! Imagine if he was actually pushed. Phar Lap would have scratched his non-existent balls in amazement, if he met the king of the stallions.
rcschumann 10 months ago
Secretariat was an absolute MONSTER on turf as well as dirt and had he been allowed to race as a 4-year-old, would probably hold every meaningful speed/distance record in horse racing. As it stands, his Belmont record is the Holy Grail of the sport.
RAV52 11 months ago 16
@RAV52 Some people think Kelso was the greatest!
cf1934 11 months ago
@cf1934 I know! Some people thought Big Brown would match the legacy of SECRETARIAT!! There is no accounting for taste, it seems. How anyone can watch Secretariat's best performances and not think he's the greatest is beyond me. That horse was Babe Ruth and Michael Jordan all roled into one!!
RAV52 11 months ago
@RAV52 Try googling Concha Best thoroughbred of all time
cf1934 11 months ago
@RAV52 I LOVE SECRETARIAT so much that I once sucked his cock dry!
cmf432100 10 months ago
@RAV52 i agree with you there its like red rum winning his third grand national it has never been equaled
burkhillcomedy 8 months ago
@burkhillcomedy Rummy definitely set the bar for the steeplechase. The even more amazing thing is that he was only two second place finishes away from an impossible 5 straight Grand National crowns!
RAV52 8 months ago
@RAV52 Agreed. Secretariat was a MONSTER Time shows in hislast race. Every metre he was getting faster and faster. They never knew what they would see out there today as he spooked at something he had seen many times before the race. its like after he knew he was won he decided to show everyone what he really had.
katnjas 8 months ago
@RAV52 You got that right! And Ron Turcotte didn't have to beat the crap out of him either. Never laid a whip on him in the Belmont. Awesome horse! I saw it on television in 1973 and rewatch that clip allll the time. Love Secretariat!
kwgrid 7 months ago
@RAV52 Well stated. "The Holy Grail of the sport" Loved how you put it. I AGREE:-)
cmf4321 7 months ago
I got to laugh at some of these serious comments,it's just a Geeup of course he knows the horses capabilities .....grow up you clowns.
GOATSNUT 1 year ago
THE WHIP SHOULD BE BANNED!! Hitting animals for sports IS SIMPLY WRONG!!
hestur01 1 year ago
Okay. Is True Brew a filly or a colt? Or a mare or a stallion? Or a gelding? Sorry for asking, I feel really stupid, just want to know.
burningrosegirl98 1 year ago
Lets keep things in perspective - this is a class one handicap!! Always a trial to compare horses but check back on these few real champs--- Kingston Town, Phar Lap, Dulcify, Manikato ( all ran drug free unlike in the USA= see Lasix* it's allowed. USA horses rarely run & win internationally because they are just not up to the task without dope. See Hong Kong racing where they hardly get a look in. US racing was once great & they even had on-course bookmakers. Run the sport into the ground.
felinestar 1 year ago
A healthy Secretariat was the best horse of all time. He was sick for at least two of his losses and should never have been raced.
whitethronebooks 1 year ago
What was the best? Some people admire consistency others, one off performances. Best performance i've seen was Arazi in 1991 BC Juvenile. Went past top horses hard held. Most consistently brilliant was Sea the Stars.
corny165 1 year ago
i like all three horses but number 1 i go with secretariat he was a super horse the longer he ran the fast he went his heart was 24lbs two or three times bigger than the average horse heart
TheKhafre 1 year ago
Ruffian & Secretariat all great hores, but hang for a min, lets c Phar Laps records LOL I dont have the time, unless u do.
taykyl001 1 year ago
that doesn,t means anything, you can beat the fillies if you what to be the best filly ever but if you want to be the best race horse ever you HAVE to beat the boys and with world record times that is not negotiable
beymastang 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Phar Lap was the 1st horse to ever be nick - named "Big Red"
he was poisoned because he was the best..
this horse true brew is pretty amazing!
xxcrystlecityxx 1 year ago
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xxcrystlecityxx 1 year ago
3 horses..
Phar Lap, Ruffian and secretariet!
ive ousted secretariet and now its Phar Lap and Ruffian... Phar Lap was aboslutely amazing in what he accomplished in only 6 yrs of life, if he had lived longer he would had out shone secretariet.
Ruffian only lived 3 yrs her tragic end was sad, the trainer who trained Secretariet even said "with god as my witness, i think she may be better then secretariet" sumthin like that
Think about what they could have gained if they lived longer..
xxcrystlecityxx 1 year ago
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xxcrystlecityxx 1 year ago
SECRATARIAT iS THE BEST NO BRAINER!
gman3ksu 1 year ago
Phar Lap would have been the greatest but his future was cut short.
LewlCat 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
your a goose mate
traav1 1 year ago
your a goose mate
traav1 1 year ago