Great great great post!!! Actually, some hope should be derived from all this. The narrator asks us to imagine implementing this sort of genocidal mandate in a modern country, and we simply cannot do it (at least those of us infected with sanity and reason). This should tell us that barbaric religions of the Abrahamic sort are being slowly bred out of humanity. Have no fear...the Old Testament and those who follow it (Phaedron777) are nothing but speed bumps on our road to enlightenment.
so is it safe to assume that everyone here is doing their best to end abortions? few thousand canaanite kids vs 50+million so far in america alone. or are the pictures and sad music part of a feigned hypocritical attempt to justify hating god on the pretense that his morality isn't as good as ours?
While I'm not trying to justify the killing of children, you are assuming that the child has not already been influenced by their parents in their practices. Consider this thought experiment.
When you tell a child about Santa Claus and for many years, have convinced and repeatedly told to your child that Santa Claus is real. Now when the child's parent's, who the child trusts completely, dies and some stranger tells the child Santa is not real. Would the child simply accept that fact?
You also don't get that WHO we are HERE in this life is ALREADY a judgment from God. That is our preordained fate, but what we do here is up to us. The souls that inhabited those were judged already. The animals dying is also because they are spirtiually unclean. These animals were NOT eaten, or taken as lifestock. They were KILLED.
@Phaedron777 Oh, I get it. God judged me before I was ever born. That seems perfectly reasonable. After all, I was kind of a sinner and a whoremonger while in the womb. Thanks Phadron777.
They were not innocent children, they were evil demonic nephilim. You fools need to wake up. The righteous did these things because you don't know how bad it really was.
See people don't get that it WAS about RACE back then, because the peoples being destroyed here are SATANS SEED. There is a way that seems right to man, but the end therein is death. The Israelites were the uncorrupted race from whom Jesus would come. Also, you have no idea of the KARMA of these people and who they were in previous world ages.
@Phaedron777 Yes, it was about race back then, as it still is. Faith once again reveals itself to be a cynical and manipulative excuse for slaughter, land-grabbing, and tribalism. The Israelites were uncorrupted? Really? Every single fairytale in those sickening books speaks of the wickedness of the Israelites. Hence Moses (fictional character) smashing the commandments (stolen from previous faiths and simple common sense). Hey Phaedron777, your antipsychotic meds aren't just for show!
3) taking slaves and A wife for one among young virgins of conquered peoples would be preferable to killing them. The slavery / marriage arrangements would be lawful and without sin. For God punished Lazarus while the slave, the poor person, went to heaven. So, while I generally oppose slavery and forced marriages, in both cases it was beneficial to the saving of their souls and if both parties treated each other well would be fine. In whatever degree they suffer, it is for eternal Love.
Then you have the evil of what these people were doing: giving themselves to demons, sacrificng their own children, participating in orgies. This was early in human history in terms of population, so it was an approrpriate time to remove them from the world. It's not like Good is always completely pacifistic and evil always taking the advantage and having all power. God is good AND has to do right to remove life, appoint terms of slavery, etc.
It's funny how the "magical medieval times" comes then comes the church age leading to the rational age, leading to super science, leading back to SEEMINGLY magical and mythological times, and this is the 4th time the world has been created.
It's funny how the "magical medieval times" comes then comes the church age leading to the rational age, leading to super science, leading back to SEEMINGLY magical and mythological times, and this is the 4th time the world has been created.
@Phaedron777 Wow, your grasp on history is astounding. Truly impressive. So the church came along at the end of the medieval era? Really? And it brought with it an age of reason? Really? And we have the church to thank for reason and "super science"? Well, I guess that just about wraps this thread up in a neat little package. I and every other literate, sane human on earth stand corrected! Thanks, Phaedron777.
Yes, war is an ugly business and I can relate at how God seems terrible at certain parts of the Old Testament. What you don't realize is that prior to the flood all flesh,even animals, was so corrupted God destroyed it all. AS the days of Noah shall the end be. They sinned against birds and beasts, they had genetic technology and made abominations. All mythological creatures like satyrs are also genetic abominations. The canaanites and such were remainders of these genetic corrupt people.
You say you're on 'an honest search for the truth'. Let's start there.
You are judging whether or not there is a God by reading from other people's religions. You said you used to believe, but you changed your mind because you couldn't understand the OT. Now, if you want to believe and actually are searching for truth, you must first Trust that Jesus is who He said He was. Until then, you're not searching, you're judging. Now....
Whatever argument can be used to justify killing the children does not translate to killing other animals. Was "god" afraid that cows were too pagan to live? The stories in the christian bible, OT and NT, reflect the barbaric culture in which they were written. Nothing more.
Excellent video! Growing up I too would struggle with the morality of old testament killings of innocent children and babies, however my parents simply told me to just accept whatever god does because he is too powerful for us pathetic humans to ever understand. That made me angry, but I was not allowed to question it because apparently it was a sin to question god :P I'm so glad I'm not a christian who has to deal with that kind of moral dilema! Btw.. is that Ramstein playing in the background?
You have been extremely mislead. Let me ask you a question: If you knew that a child would grow up to wipe out your entire family, someone who would grow up to be like Hitler perhaps, would you not feel justified in killing him before he had the chance?
Btw, by what standard of morality do you judge the Bible?
ok so it is simple eider we have free will or not , if Hitler is raise by me i am black from Haiti i give him lots of love and care about him is he still Hitler ?no because it is not the same up bringing or the same events that happen in is live so there fore he is not Hitler, if i raise him and he still become Hitler that means one thing there is no free will ,and your god is playing both sides and that also means we are programed zombies walking in our preprogrammed lives
So, you would take Hitler away from his parents and try to raise him to be a good person?
Let me explain the reason women and children were killed. Sure, it's partly because of perversion, but mostly it is about protecting themselves. If you kill a boy's father, he will grow up attempting to avenge his father's death. So, you can either separate children from their parents and put them into slavery so they are too weak to kill anyone, or you can kill them all. Otherwise you will be dead.
you didnt answer my question if i raise him and he still become Hitler that means one thing there is no free will ,and your god is playing both sides and that also means we are programed zombies walking in our preprogrammed lives ,circumstance make people not prophecy if the world is lock down in prophecy than that means there is no free will thats y your god can predict your behavior because he preprogramed the story
Well if you do chose to kill Hitler, as in your example, that decision would contradict Jesus' teachings (in the New Testament) of turning the other cheek, and the commandment in the Old Testament "thou shall not murder"... So even if you do consider it a "lesser evil" to have killed all these people to protect the Israelites, God's decision still was a contradiction to his teachings and his law...
"Well if you do chose to kill Hitler, as in your example, that decision would contradict Jesus' teachings."
Jesus was teaching that we should treat others above our selves. I don't think killing Hitler is a selfish act.
"the commandment in the Old Testament "thou shall not murder"... So even if you do consider it a "lesser evil" to have killed all these people to protect the Israelites, God's decision still was a contradiction to his teachings and his law..."
owchywawa : --someone who would grow up to be like Hitler perhaps-- There is this prophecy in the Bible: That the Jewish state would be reestablished.This prophecy came true, because of the persecution and murder of the Jews by Hitler all over Europe. Hitler did God`s will..That`s the untenable conclusion, if you believe the Bible.
Can we not go into free will? That is an entire new can of worms. Even if you are right, in any case, we can generally predict someone's actions. Think about it.
I am not the only one who thinks killing children is justified under some circumstances. Just look at the atomic bombs which where drop on Japan for an example in modern history.
Let me ask you a question: Why do you think killing babies is wrong? Do you have any rational reason or are you using appeals to emotions?
@SuperMerlin100 "That isn't how it work. People do bad things then we punish them."
You are mistaken. Start making youtube videos stating that you intend on killing the president and build a bomb in your house and see how that argument works with the judge. Tell the solders fighting in a battle that they can't shoot back until they are hit by a bullet.
That's two cities. And millions of people think that was the right thing to do, so stop pretending like my position is one of a sociopath.
@owchywawa first is a violation of free speech. 2nd 1 person stupid enough to make a youtube video about it? Yes lets see what happens when they don't find a bomb. Then it is just words.
Considering that they are there and trying to kill someone is still a crime.
Think things through if they don't already have a good reason to be there then they shouldn't be shooting.
@SuperMerlin100 I don't know why you think making videos about killing the president is a violation of free speech. I can assure you that you will be punished for it though.
Ah, but that's just the point. They DO have a good reason; something you have been excluding from being a possibility. In real life people don't wait until someone commit a crime. They stop them before they do.
You making up poorly thought out excuse for killing children on a public form, because you are to weak to let your shy dady go.
Given all the interal contradicts, violations of morality (punishing the rape victum), and demonstatably false statements concerning physical reality in the bible. You're wasting your time.
@SuperMerlin100 "You making up poorly thought out excuse for killing children on a public form, because you are to weak to let your shy dady go."
Lol Whatever helps you sleep at night.
"Given all the interal contradicts, violations of morality "
Again, you are not defining what morality is! I cannot respond to someone on a point of morality when I don't know what they mean by morality. Why is any given action wrong?
@owchywawa Can you simply not read what you don't want to see? I gave an example in that sentence you broke. Punishing victums.
I explained what my issue with you was twise already.
You are talking about killing kids for something they MIGHT do because SOMEONE walked in and said "This is our land. Our invisible friend in the sky said so." and then murder their parents.
Punishing people for something they haven't done wiith the same punishment that you would give if they had is wrong.
Richard Feynman once said that in science you start with assuming everything is false or wrong until its demonstrated otherwise.
Likewise, the beauty of forgoing tradition (religious, cultural, or otherwise) is that your beliefs can always be under scrutiny and measured against what is verifiably known to be true and if they make it through years of skeptical fire, then they are indeed true and worthy of acceptance.
scientific method??? just look at the technology created, who are you gonna trust more, the people who made them? or the people who are trying to hold back the people who made them?
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DD/M93 great discussion , the bible is full of prophecies which r used in determining the truth .. DD dont fool yourself, u know God , and God is written G-o-d..
4th part of Continuation: Peter 2:10 sums some of this up. "...once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy. " That's why Jesus came. God promised a Savior right after Adam and Eve sinned and corrupted every generation to come. He keeps His promises. We are under grace, because God is love. He gave us law to keep us from harming others and for us to know the difference between good and bad.
@Mehrunissah93 Look at it this way. The slaughter of the Canaanites is very similar to the 9/11 attacks. They were both HORRIBLE crimes against humanity. In both cases, they were men that believed with every fiber of their being that what they planned was commanded by God. The only reason why you don't see it this way it's 'cause you don't believe it was ordained by God.
Because if you happened to believe the 9/11 attacks were commanded by God, you would justify it exactly the same way you justify the genocide of the Canaanites."We can't question God","God knew their hearts and He knew they deserved to die","look at the bright side..." There's no justification for such horrible acts of murder and genocide, but when someone says it was commanded by God, it SUDDENLY becomes ok, and THAT'S what's dangerous about religion...
God didn't write this book. It was the work of primitive men who wanted to conquer and have more power, like any human. The idea that god has chosen you and wants you to be mighty and powerful corrupted any decency the primitive Israelites might have, and justified the slaughter of entire nations. And it's all good, because god commanded it, and what the concept of god represents is unquestionable authority. When humans claim this authority, DISASTER HAPPENS. Read the history books.
If they wanted power do you think they'd say not to judge, love others as yourselves, not to get angry or rage or slander or steal or cheat or rob? If they wanted control do you think they'd tell you to worship and pray to another being instead of themselves as gods? Many people I meet say that, but that makes no sense to me, so please (no sarcasm) help me understand your point of view. Do you think they'd continually discuss mercy, forgiveness, love and compassion?
Of course, every society must have rules in order to survive. But notice those rules mostly apply to how Israelites should treat Israelites. As you'll also read in the Bible, when it came to other nations; they were able to cheat, steal, murder and rape, as long as they were nations they considered "enemies" of their god. Enemies, not because God really told them they were enemies, but because those nations were doing things their culture had considered wrong.
But perhaps the biggest reason why Israelites were so hostile to different cultures/religions is a little psychological phenomenon called "Xenophobia." That is the extreme hatred towards people of different cultures, ethnicity, race,etc...This also explains why the primitive Israelites make it VERY CLEAR in the scriptures that they thought they were a superior race, with a superior god and therefore had the right to conquer and destroy other nations.
I recommend you watch a documentary called "The Bible's Buried Secrets" an inside look at what the archeological evidence says about whether or not the story in the Bible of the origins of the Israelites is true or fiction. Just search the terms "NOVA Bible" on GOOGLE, and you'll immediately find the links to watch it online. It'll give you a different perspective on this debate. If you don't live in the US you won't be able to watch it, but you can watch "BIBLE UNEARTHED" on Youtube.
Finally, the key word is UNQUESTIONABLE. Every time there has been a leader with power who has prohibited and condemned anyone from questioning or criticize their action, disaster has happened. NOTHING should be unquestionable. Everything should be tested, every truth should have evidence to prove itself. When blind faith drives our judgment, it leaves space for deception and abuse of power.
I'm glad you are so open minded about this. I hope you'll learn to question everything from now on.
I do question many things in society. You are correct about world leaders. But I see a difference in world leaders than what I do with God. Men like Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, etc never talked about equality (as God later does, because He wanted all people spared). While God "changed" and decided we'd no longer sacrifice animals (but pray) for forgiveness, we also no longer stone. God forgives all sins w/o question and w/o horrific executions. I've questioned [trust me:)]. Every believer does.
The point is to ask if it's really God behind this given the massive, errors, cruelty and contradictions in the Bible. How do you know that the person who says is speaking in the name of God is really speaking in his name? There's no way. When an horrible act of cruelty, like the one the Israelites committed against the Caananites, is committed in the name of god (who's supposed to be omnibenevolent) that's a HUGE red flag, they are kookoo, and they just want power.
But the O.T. wouldn't have been for power, because the O.T. mentions the need for a Savior and in the N.T., the Pharisees believe they're inerrant. The Jews were also jealous and didn't want others to be grafted into their salvation, but God's intention was to save the world (John 3:16). Therefore, I don't believe Jews did this for power. Also, they frequently rejected God. I know the Bible is God-breathed w/ humans as His instruments, because the Bible says so and it's consistent w/ God's plan.
@Mehrunissah93 You have got to be kidding you believe the bible because it says it is true?
Any God with an IQ score higher then room temperature in celsius would right the book themselfs. The designed fall for example 2 sociopaths in a garden 1 pass of fail moral test and the fate of the human race at stake. What could go wrong?
Do you really think the creator of the universe would be that stupid?
FINALLY,the God of the OT and NT are entirely different.Mainly because it was a written at a VERY different time by people with VERY different needs. We have to notice 2 things:1) the Jews don't consider the NT part of the Bible 2)the NT was written by people who viewed(or rather imagined)God differently according to their needs. As time goes by,the idea of god becomes more "friendly" and that's been consistent til today.God hated rock, but now,he loves it.God changes 'cause ppl change.
I know Judaism doesn't involve Christ, however God didn't change because people or time changed. Like I said, God planned RIGHT AFTER Adam and Eve sinned to have a Savior (Gen.3:15). He always planned to put humanity under grace, instead of under law. However, He does say He doesn't want us to continue sinning as if repentance is a joke. The Bible has always said God is love. God showed much love in the O.T. (ie. Hagar, Abraham+Sarah, David, Solomon, Job, Cain, Israelite captives, Eze. 16).
3rd part of Continuation: We no longer get killed for not following the law. We no longer get stoned for adultery, breaking the Sabbath and so on. We can not repent and turn to God for forgiveness. Some Christians use the verse Hebrews 13:8 as a universal meaning for God never changing at all. However, if you read the passages about God changing you'll see the Bible refers to Him rewarding faithful people. I believe God has real emotions (He cries for the lost). We are no longer slaves to law.
Continuation: Please give me time to further look into these things and discuss them with others. I don't want to assume or waste your time. The Bible does say that we as imperfect humans will not be able to understand everything God does (like allowing a loved one to die). Many things I don't understand (why so many children are born only to be raped, beaten, killed, tortured, etc). However, Jesus coming consoles me. Those children and non-believers all get a second chance. Read on....
3rd part of continuation: So God would destroy the entire city full of polluted/corrupted people. Yet, I was also taught that those who never heard of God get a second chance to reject or accept Him during the Second Coming. That consoles me, as does the things I listed above.
Continuation: Are you saying being a child automatically makes you innocent? Many children today are killers and manipulative liars. However, I am not trying to make the children seem like little devils. That's just something to think about. Anyway, I've been taught that children go to Heaven when they are not in knowledge of God. How much worse would it be if all the children were spared without parents or any sort of relative and grew up still rejecting and/or not knowing about God? continue
@Mehrunissah93 It's hard to believe that a seemingly eloquent and rational person as you could justify the killing of innocent children and babies with such a pathetic argument. No, children are not all innocent, but they CERTAINLY DO NOT deserve to die. Their minds are fertile grounds, and even if they are indoctrinated to kill or commit vile acts, there's PLENTY of time for rehabilitation. On top of that, babies ARE innocent, and they were also killed.
How much worse would it be if..." Great! so the only viable solution for the omnipotent omnscient creator of the universe is...KILL THEM ALL IN COLD BLOOD!!!, how lovely!
I was not trying to justify killing children through that statement. To be honest, I see that writing it was an irrelevant and useless sentence and I apologize. God's manifestation can affect people. Like I said: some ignore and some listen. God told the apostles to dust off their feet and leave if the people refused to listen. Growing up I chose to ignore certain Biblical things, because I wasn't ready to change. I'll have to look up the Canaanites only to be fair to you. To be continued...
It's not hard to believe they were all corrupted. Sodom and Gomorrah was fully corrupted and lust in their wickedness. Satan is powerful and once he gets you, sometimes many people don't want to turn back, because the truth is that sin is generally fun and physically pleasing. That's why Satan is so tempting.
@Mehrunissah93 "It's not hard to believe they were all corrupted, blah blah, satan." So you say kids were also corrupted beyond redemption? are you saying Satan can corrupt beyond what God can redeem? are you saying God had really no other choice? Wasn't Paul also a murderer redeemed by a simple manifestation of Jesus? Couldn't God do the same with the cananites?
No, I do not believe anyone is corrupted beyond redemption. I do believe that God gave us free will and forces NO ONE to accept Him into their hearts. I believe He gives us the freedom to reject or accept Him. Paul chose to accept God after he saw the truth and now we are no under the law, but under grace. That's what the death of Jesus did for us.
@Mehrunissah93 I know the whole "can't interfere with people's will" thing, but manifesting to people and proving to them you are the one and only god does not interfere with their free will. They can still choose to worship other gods. If God hadn't revealed to Moses, how could he ever find out who the "real" god was? Why that opportunity was never given to the cananites? it sounds to me god's a little racist. And what's your justification for KIDS also being murdered?
How do you know God hadn't shown Himself to the Canaanites? Have you heard of Cain and Abel? Cain killed Abel out of jealousy. God put a protective sign on him to spare him. However, despite the love and forgiveness God showed Cain, Cain continued to reject and even forget about God. Cain's children, grandchildren, and so on soon forgot about God and created their own gods. The same way an alcoholic parent can affect several generations, so did Cain. To be continued...
@Mehrunissah93 Simple, does the Bible says anything about God ever interfering with the Canaanites? No, right? oooh. Remember the numerous Bible passages that warn you NOT to add or substract anything to the bible. So, if it's not written in the Bible, it did not happen, right? Cain's disobedience to god despite his encounter with him proves that god's manifestation doesn't interfere with free will.? Even if all God could have done WAS done, killing an entire nation for...
Well, it really depends on where you are born or to which god you subscribe.
For the Muslim, Agnostic, Hindu, Buddhist, Sikh, Jew, Jain, Shinto, Cao Dai, Zoroastrian, Tenrikyo, Unitarian, Rastafarian, or Scientologist, they could be different.
You know what's funny, you read verses like 2 Kings 17:16-18, Ezekiel 16:20-26, Jeremiah 19:1, and Judges 11 and you see that Israel did some of the same things their enemies did, but God wasn't so harsh when it came time to punish them, he actually let some of them live. [sarcasm]What a just God! [/sarcasm]
In the fundamentalist christian world, the Israelites were god's hand of judgement on the inhabitants of the promised land because of Canaanite wickedness. *That* is the context of the remark about children.
I disagree with it, but assuming it that *was* true, I am asking what the children did to be "wicked" or deserving of death.
Assuming (and I disagree) that what conservative christians say who justify genocide by the Israelites because they were killing adults as a result of their [Canaanite] wickedness, then I am asking what babies and children did [that could be considered "wicked"] to also be killed during the genocide.
I think, if any of this is actually historically accurate, that any sort of killing (adults or children) because a deity said to is barbaric and wrong.
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being condemned by GOD is not murder it's ''the wages of sin'' be careful of your thoughts & actions the children just might become victims of selfs / ourselves ... GOD is GOOD we are bad , doubting GOD is a mistake .. correctable mistake
Mimifrias, besides god telling the children of Israel to kill the inhabitants of the promised land, what did the canaanite men, women, and especially children do to deserve death?
No... don't you listen? God isn't good. I have no idea what the biblical death toll is, but considering at one point the earth was flooded, killing every man, woman and child, it's going to be quite high. It is unjustifiable; the thought process 'god is good, therefore what he does is good' is flawed. In our day to day lives, we judge whether people are 'good' based on their actions. We never make a predetermination and then assume anything they do is consistent with that assumption.
I heard sick apologists before but U take the honors.
One of the reasons I decided to change from a believer to an Atheist is the insane, murderous deeds of yahweh god!!
What's the difference between yahweh and Saddam Hussein?? None, other than one calls himself god, even though the other may have started to believe he was one.
Would you be so insane and fearful as to worship either monster??
Wow... God is good... we are bad... we are not gods not even on u-tube... with all r limits never could u or i explain God totally ... God saw what we , thank God, what we will never ... something worst then sodom n gomorrah all the sin of las vegas n los angles co mingling as your neighbors then u expect grandchildren too Love God... noway u get u n your u tube , good luck better yet ... GOD BLESS... He done it b4 ...
This is insane ps you forgot yourself about the kids grand chrilden ect.
I'm only 14 ( I was 13 two days ago =D)
I believed in GOD because everyone else did where i lived but when i realized two years ago that GOD was like a fairytail i thought wtf? Now i see how crazy this is in Denmark where i live GOD is a normal thing in school i wont accept that i don't want my kids to believe in a none existing psycho... O__O Sorry for the word expression's i dont have anything agaisnt people believing^^
Good for you! It hopeful when I see young people smart enough to not be taken in.
I was put in a Catholic school from day one. They indoctrinated me & screwed up a good part of my life. U R lucky to see thru it bcuz you have your whole life ahead of you.
"What's the difference between killing a child and an adult"
In terms of cold, hard facts rather than emotional appeal?
An adult's mind is fully formed and most core mindsets permanently ingrained. If they grew up in a culture where it's acceptable to sacrifice people and eat their hearts, for example, it would be nigh impossible to change their mind on the matter.
Children, on the other hand, are still pliable. A blank slate, if you will. There are better alternatives to simply killing them.
5:04 , Don 't you listen what this video is saying at the end ? was the murder of innocent children acceptable in the old testament because god directed it ? should we expect, righteous, moral and ethical laws to come from god regardless of time and palce ?
should we expect, righteous, moral and ethical laws to come from god regardless of time and palce? What does that indicate ? is it that we now in modern times need new New Testament : )
5:28 is what has always bothered me even as a child. I would hear God never changes, he is the same yesterday, today, and forever.
Much of what you have in your video series up to this video, I have questioned and have been troubled over for the majority of my life so far. I plan on finishing your series.
wow excellent video! This series was put together extremely well. I hate it when christians find a way to make the horrible things god did in the old testament somehow right and just, and i love how you address this.
Holysinecure, why is it worse if the people being killed are children, than if they are adults? Are the lives of adults of lesser value than the lives of children? For that matter, why is the enslavement and/or murder of women more egregious than the enslavement and/or murder of men?
i'm sad when i see that people follow a religion and a god when theirs morals are above that god.Morals evolve and we must keep question them so we can reach another level(a better one).
if we stick with 2000 years old morals than we can't talk about evolution.
holysinecure you have all my respect and in my opinion you do much more good than a god believer.If a god exist he should appreciate you more than a Bible guy.A true god would preach knowledge and education not war,obeying, indifference
"why is the enslavement and/or murder of women more egregious than the enslavement and/or murder of men?"
Again is not about wich one is more egregious. man can protect themselves better than a woman. Man and woman are equal IN RIGHTS(or they should). In many other aspect they are very different.
When a women is killed the act is close to an execution than to a fighting. Same with children.
Here is the crux of the matter. For fundamentalist christians who believe in an inerrant, divine bible, the only defensible position is that the genocide in the old testament actually occurred, because it permeates the scriptures. The believer then must come up with a reason to justify what is clearly written to have occurred. (cont.)...
The end result is some sort of justification for the genocide which just so happens to include the murder of children. So it is the believers that have the courage of their spiritual convictions that will suggest the killing of children, if ordained or directed by god, must have been justified.
A logical conclusion to reach if 1) you believe these events actually occurred and 2) you believe the bible is infallible and god-breathed. (cont.)...
In my opinion this is partly why christianity has become more moderate, and more flavors of it get to pick and choose what they find acceptable within the scriptures.
Taking a literal approach is just an untenable position.
If we are to scream at ourselves within, in a most dire of attepmts at understnding rather than wanting, facing the reality without fear seems to be a virtue utterly alien to The Pretenders among us. For want of a god we have let die, both with force and ignorance, but for need of truth we have toiled in the mud. Hated since, we have been known as Skeptics. Only a sincere being would dare snatch an innocent from the hungry jaws of a god.
While I am in agreement in relation to exposing the fallacies of biblical genocide, I must protest your use of biblical stories in relation to mass murder as proof that the events even occurred. There is no concrete evidence that there was a "Moses" or many other biblical figures to have committed these acts. While I'll grant the possibility of some murders - as I would in any culture, basing an argument on such evidence is unnecessary to prove your point.
I think I said this in another comment thread, but it bears repeating. I have read and viewed evidence questioning the historicity of the exodus - I think it has merit.
However, this video is for people questioning their faith - especially fundamentalist christians that believe the bible is divine, inerrant, and literally translated. It is within that context that the comments in this video are framed - the historicity of the exodus notwithstanding.
As a former born-again fundamentalist and former apologist, I do understand who these videos are framed for. I suppose your use of pictures of children and asking viewers to think about these being killed by Israelites is what sparked my response. But the issue is not the historical murder of any groups but the fact that the bible god justifies murder presented in the bible, whether they be children or adults. Regardless, I am enjoying your presentation in this series. Keep up the good work.
In the first video, we mentioned we compiled a study notes into what essentially became the chapters of this series as we studied our way out of fundamentalist christianity.
We had discussions with ex-church members and in their defense of OT purging of the promised land, a typical justification was that the israelites were the god's hand of justice. The idea was that the inhabitants of the land were being punished for sin. (continued)...
Consequently, our approach was to ask what the children were guilty of to deserve death. Obviously, it was a rhetorical question, but some of the folks with whom we spoke justified it.
Since it was a disturbing part of our face to face discussions, it made its way into our study notes. We have 4 children and Mrs. Holysinecure found the justification of killing children especially repulsive.
Hence the emphasis in the video when discussing common defenses for OT genocide.
Thank you for intelligently articulating the obscenities present in the Bible. I simply have never understood why this book was ever accepted as the word of GOD.
A well structured and brilliantly argued position...too bad this is the exact sort of logical and reasoned argument that flys in one ear and out the other of the 99.9% of the christians you left behind.
Just kidding, there are some believers out there like yourself that will benefit greatly from your video. You did a great thing in making this.
As we departed our religion we had conversations with our ex-church members.
In those discussions, the approach was, "let's say the slaughter of Canaanites *was* holy judgement, what deeds do you ascribe to the innocent children that justified their death?".
These videos were derived from those discussions coupled with our compiled studies, that is why the video places emphasis on the killing of kids. The emphasis shouldn't be confused with tacit approval of killing adults.
lol, no one is going to leave jewstianity over a few youtube videos. come on, now. it takes years of personal realizations and a great paradigm shift. but yeah, these videos rock!
A fantastic video. Excellent work, and thank you for your open-minded ness.
My disillusionment from Yahweh, like yours, has less to do with his existence, and more to do with his alleged nature, and the sheer hypocrisy between the testaments.
Actually, it started with the difference between his nature and who he said he is supposed to be versus what his book says that gave way to lack of belief.
Yahweh was a tribal god, a god among many gods, until Christianity changed him into the god of the universe. It could have worked had they thrown away all the Old Testament scriptures, but they got too entangled with the whole messianic prophecy thing, resulting in a contradictory creature now known simply as God.
But I'm actually glad that's the way things are. Being able to see clearly how the christian religion evolved from primitive tribalistic beliefs made my deconversion a lot easier.
Dilbert's boss: "The problem with hiring a hitman is you have to have him killed to cover your tracks. Then you have to hire someone to kill the hitman who killed the hitman. It's an endless cycle." Catbert: "But ultimately it's free."
Great great great post!!! Actually, some hope should be derived from all this. The narrator asks us to imagine implementing this sort of genocidal mandate in a modern country, and we simply cannot do it (at least those of us infected with sanity and reason). This should tell us that barbaric religions of the Abrahamic sort are being slowly bred out of humanity. Have no fear...the Old Testament and those who follow it (Phaedron777) are nothing but speed bumps on our road to enlightenment.
ReclaimAmber 5 days ago
so is it safe to assume that everyone here is doing their best to end abortions? few thousand canaanite kids vs 50+million so far in america alone. or are the pictures and sad music part of a feigned hypocritical attempt to justify hating god on the pretense that his morality isn't as good as ours?
MrSomethingscary 1 week ago
While I'm not trying to justify the killing of children, you are assuming that the child has not already been influenced by their parents in their practices. Consider this thought experiment.
When you tell a child about Santa Claus and for many years, have convinced and repeatedly told to your child that Santa Claus is real. Now when the child's parent's, who the child trusts completely, dies and some stranger tells the child Santa is not real. Would the child simply accept that fact?
Phibriglex 2 weeks ago
You also don't get that WHO we are HERE in this life is ALREADY a judgment from God. That is our preordained fate, but what we do here is up to us. The souls that inhabited those were judged already. The animals dying is also because they are spirtiually unclean. These animals were NOT eaten, or taken as lifestock. They were KILLED.
Phaedron777 3 months ago
@Phaedron777 Oh, I get it. God judged me before I was ever born. That seems perfectly reasonable. After all, I was kind of a sinner and a whoremonger while in the womb. Thanks Phadron777.
ReclaimAmber 5 days ago
They were not innocent children, they were evil demonic nephilim. You fools need to wake up. The righteous did these things because you don't know how bad it really was.
Phaedron777 3 months ago
@Phaedron777 Have you ever met a child?
ReclaimAmber 5 days ago
See people don't get that it WAS about RACE back then, because the peoples being destroyed here are SATANS SEED. There is a way that seems right to man, but the end therein is death. The Israelites were the uncorrupted race from whom Jesus would come. Also, you have no idea of the KARMA of these people and who they were in previous world ages.
Phaedron777 3 months ago
@Phaedron777 Yes, it was about race back then, as it still is. Faith once again reveals itself to be a cynical and manipulative excuse for slaughter, land-grabbing, and tribalism. The Israelites were uncorrupted? Really? Every single fairytale in those sickening books speaks of the wickedness of the Israelites. Hence Moses (fictional character) smashing the commandments (stolen from previous faiths and simple common sense). Hey Phaedron777, your antipsychotic meds aren't just for show!
ReclaimAmber 5 days ago
3) taking slaves and A wife for one among young virgins of conquered peoples would be preferable to killing them. The slavery / marriage arrangements would be lawful and without sin. For God punished Lazarus while the slave, the poor person, went to heaven. So, while I generally oppose slavery and forced marriages, in both cases it was beneficial to the saving of their souls and if both parties treated each other well would be fine. In whatever degree they suffer, it is for eternal Love.
Phaedron777 3 months ago
Then you have the evil of what these people were doing: giving themselves to demons, sacrificng their own children, participating in orgies. This was early in human history in terms of population, so it was an approrpriate time to remove them from the world. It's not like Good is always completely pacifistic and evil always taking the advantage and having all power. God is good AND has to do right to remove life, appoint terms of slavery, etc.
Phaedron777 3 months ago
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It's funny how the "magical medieval times" comes then comes the church age leading to the rational age, leading to super science, leading back to SEEMINGLY magical and mythological times, and this is the 4th time the world has been created.
Phaedron777 3 months ago
It's funny how the "magical medieval times" comes then comes the church age leading to the rational age, leading to super science, leading back to SEEMINGLY magical and mythological times, and this is the 4th time the world has been created.
Phaedron777 3 months ago
@Phaedron777 Wow, your grasp on history is astounding. Truly impressive. So the church came along at the end of the medieval era? Really? And it brought with it an age of reason? Really? And we have the church to thank for reason and "super science"? Well, I guess that just about wraps this thread up in a neat little package. I and every other literate, sane human on earth stand corrected! Thanks, Phaedron777.
ReclaimAmber 5 days ago
Yes, war is an ugly business and I can relate at how God seems terrible at certain parts of the Old Testament. What you don't realize is that prior to the flood all flesh,even animals, was so corrupted God destroyed it all. AS the days of Noah shall the end be. They sinned against birds and beasts, they had genetic technology and made abominations. All mythological creatures like satyrs are also genetic abominations. The canaanites and such were remainders of these genetic corrupt people.
Phaedron777 3 months ago
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Harold Camping was RIGHT about May 21, click on my channel to see...
youneekk 6 months ago
Good stuff! Also for the library list: Martin Buber "Who Wrote The Bible?
jillybjolly 10 months ago
Excellent prsentation. I also like those sections that use the soundtrack from the movie "Gladiator" that makes the message even more poignant.
kadene2 1 year ago
You say you're on 'an honest search for the truth'. Let's start there.
You are judging whether or not there is a God by reading from other people's religions. You said you used to believe, but you changed your mind because you couldn't understand the OT. Now, if you want to believe and actually are searching for truth, you must first Trust that Jesus is who He said He was. Until then, you're not searching, you're judging. Now....
deluzente 1 year ago
This is hilarious this women who does not understand any other religion but her own is trying to talk about others religion.
sicilia313 1 year ago
GREAT series! Thank you for showing us how immoral Christianity is in such detail.
warren52nz 1 year ago
Whatever argument can be used to justify killing the children does not translate to killing other animals. Was "god" afraid that cows were too pagan to live? The stories in the christian bible, OT and NT, reflect the barbaric culture in which they were written. Nothing more.
YY4Me133 1 year ago 4
Excellent video! Growing up I too would struggle with the morality of old testament killings of innocent children and babies, however my parents simply told me to just accept whatever god does because he is too powerful for us pathetic humans to ever understand. That made me angry, but I was not allowed to question it because apparently it was a sin to question god :P I'm so glad I'm not a christian who has to deal with that kind of moral dilema! Btw.. is that Ramstein playing in the background?
blue4arekkusu 1 year ago
You have been extremely mislead. Let me ask you a question: If you knew that a child would grow up to wipe out your entire family, someone who would grow up to be like Hitler perhaps, would you not feel justified in killing him before he had the chance?
Btw, by what standard of morality do you judge the Bible?
owchywawa 1 year ago
wow your crazy
spynation10 1 year ago
Why do you say that? Are you saying you would let Hitler live if you knew what he would grow up to do? And you call me crazy?
owchywawa 1 year ago
ok so it is simple eider we have free will or not , if Hitler is raise by me i am black from Haiti i give him lots of love and care about him is he still Hitler ?no because it is not the same up bringing or the same events that happen in is live so there fore he is not Hitler, if i raise him and he still become Hitler that means one thing there is no free will ,and your god is playing both sides and that also means we are programed zombies walking in our preprogrammed lives
spynation10 1 year ago
So, you would take Hitler away from his parents and try to raise him to be a good person?
Let me explain the reason women and children were killed. Sure, it's partly because of perversion, but mostly it is about protecting themselves. If you kill a boy's father, he will grow up attempting to avenge his father's death. So, you can either separate children from their parents and put them into slavery so they are too weak to kill anyone, or you can kill them all. Otherwise you will be dead.
owchywawa 1 year ago
you didnt answer my question if i raise him and he still become Hitler that means one thing there is no free will ,and your god is playing both sides and that also means we are programed zombies walking in our preprogrammed lives ,circumstance make people not prophecy if the world is lock down in prophecy than that means there is no free will thats y your god can predict your behavior because he preprogramed the story
spynation10 1 year ago
Well if you do chose to kill Hitler, as in your example, that decision would contradict Jesus' teachings (in the New Testament) of turning the other cheek, and the commandment in the Old Testament "thou shall not murder"... So even if you do consider it a "lesser evil" to have killed all these people to protect the Israelites, God's decision still was a contradiction to his teachings and his law...
Laloubird 1 year ago
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"Well if you do chose to kill Hitler, as in your example, that decision would contradict Jesus' teachings."
Jesus was teaching that we should treat others above our selves. I don't think killing Hitler is a selfish act.
"the commandment in the Old Testament "thou shall not murder"... So even if you do consider it a "lesser evil" to have killed all these people to protect the Israelites, God's decision still was a contradiction to his teachings and his law..."
Self defense is not murder.
owchywawa 1 year ago
@owchywawa Strange us mordern humans don't have to kill children for something the MIGHT do. You sick twisted monster.
SuperMerlin100 1 year ago
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@SuperMerlin100 "Strange us mordern humans don't have to kill children for something the MIGHT do. You sick twisted monster."
Can you not think consistently, or do you not know the different between "MIGHT" and will?
owchywawa 1 year ago
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owchywawa : --someone who would grow up to be like Hitler perhaps-- There is this prophecy in the Bible: That the Jewish state would be reestablished.This prophecy came true, because of the persecution and murder of the Jews by Hitler all over Europe. Hitler did God`s will..That`s the untenable conclusion, if you believe the Bible.
lizazoon 1 year ago
@owchywawa The only way to tell if someone well grow up a certain way is if they have next to no choice but to. That is a violation of free will.
Now stop and think. You are trying to justify the killing of children and infants you psychopath!
Are you telling us that this interally inconsisent excuse would be enough justification for you to murder children?!!
Try appling your flawed logic to yourself.
SuperMerlin100 1 year ago
Can we not go into free will? That is an entire new can of worms. Even if you are right, in any case, we can generally predict someone's actions. Think about it.
I am not the only one who thinks killing children is justified under some circumstances. Just look at the atomic bombs which where drop on Japan for an example in modern history.
Let me ask you a question: Why do you think killing babies is wrong? Do you have any rational reason or are you using appeals to emotions?
owchywawa 1 year ago
@owchywawa Are you still trying to justify killing people for something they might do?
That isn't how it work. People do bad things then we punish them.
Good luck justifing one act of mass murder by comparing it to another.
The USA could have blown something other then a city up.
Like I said you are a sociopath. Killing people who haven't done anything wrong or even plan on doing anything of the sort.
That is kinda the moral equivalent of getting 2+2 wrong.
SuperMerlin100 1 year ago
@SuperMerlin100 "That isn't how it work. People do bad things then we punish them."
You are mistaken. Start making youtube videos stating that you intend on killing the president and build a bomb in your house and see how that argument works with the judge. Tell the solders fighting in a battle that they can't shoot back until they are hit by a bullet.
That's two cities. And millions of people think that was the right thing to do, so stop pretending like my position is one of a sociopath.
owchywawa 1 year ago
@owchywawa first is a violation of free speech. 2nd 1 person stupid enough to make a youtube video about it? Yes lets see what happens when they don't find a bomb. Then it is just words.
Considering that they are there and trying to kill someone is still a crime.
Think things through if they don't already have a good reason to be there then they shouldn't be shooting.
I already explained a more peaceful solution.
So turns out I was wrong you're just an idiot.
(continued)
SuperMerlin100 1 year ago
@SuperMerlin100 I don't know why you think making videos about killing the president is a violation of free speech. I can assure you that you will be punished for it though.
Ah, but that's just the point. They DO have a good reason; something you have been excluding from being a possibility. In real life people don't wait until someone commit a crime. They stop them before they do.
owchywawa 1 year ago
@owchywawa Learn to read.
You are saying that I would tell soldiers to wait untell they were shot at.
I explained that given that they are there they already have a reason to shoot people.
Read what I wrote.
SuperMerlin100 1 year ago
@owchywawa You on the other hand (see my other reply) are obviously a threat to the people around you. Your a sociopath for Earth's sake.
But unless you have actually killed someone and we can proof it we can't punish you.
Then there is the pharaoh whose free will was openly interfered with by God so he would refuse to do what God wanted him to do?
Morality doesn't matter to this monster.
SuperMerlin100 1 year ago
@SuperMerlin100 1% of your words actually have content. Just answer the question.
"Morality doesn't matter to this monster."
Then why the hell did I ask you: "Why do you think killing babies is wrong? Do you have any rational reason or are you using appeals to emotions?"
I'm starting to think you fit the definition of a psychopath. You can't even answer a question.
owchywawa 1 year ago
@owchywawa Even if I was punished for making that video. Do you really believe they would punish me as if I actually did it.
Also I said that punishing me for empty threats would be a violation of my rights.
How are we suppose to talk when you appearently have a mental block that keeps you from seeing half of what I write?
On top of that what is the excuse for killing infants that never even knew their parents.
SuperMerlin100 1 year ago
@owchywawa (continued from)
Here's an example you missed.
You making up poorly thought out excuse for killing children on a public form, because you are to weak to let your shy dady go.
Given all the interal contradicts, violations of morality (punishing the rape victum), and demonstatably false statements concerning physical reality in the bible. You're wasting your time.
SuperMerlin100 1 year ago
@SuperMerlin100 "You making up poorly thought out excuse for killing children on a public form, because you are to weak to let your shy dady go."
Lol Whatever helps you sleep at night.
"Given all the interal contradicts, violations of morality "
Again, you are not defining what morality is! I cannot respond to someone on a point of morality when I don't know what they mean by morality. Why is any given action wrong?
owchywawa 1 year ago
@owchywawa Can you simply not read what you don't want to see? I gave an example in that sentence you broke. Punishing victums.
I explained what my issue with you was twise already.
You are talking about killing kids for something they MIGHT do because SOMEONE walked in and said "This is our land. Our invisible friend in the sky said so." and then murder their parents.
Punishing people for something they haven't done wiith the same punishment that you would give if they had is wrong.
SuperMerlin100 1 year ago
Read the scholar Karen Armstrong's "History of God," to get a bigger picture of all the religions.
I am now reading her "The Great Transformation" which gives more info on this fascinating subject.
Ms. Armstrong is an ex-nun, and true scholar so her search for truth can not be doubted.
gjsterp 2 years ago
google "the god fraud"
holysinecure 2 years ago
I have watched Sam Harris on several videos, and read his article and Armstrongs response.
I agree with them both, which might sound conflicting, but they are both right,
Different people need to be handled this information in different ways.
Few Christians cave under a frontal assault.
What we need to do, is teach our children to think critically, and then let them make their own decisions about religion.
We can only hope they come to the right decision.
gjsterp 2 years ago
Richard Feynman once said that in science you start with assuming everything is false or wrong until its demonstrated otherwise.
Likewise, the beauty of forgoing tradition (religious, cultural, or otherwise) is that your beliefs can always be under scrutiny and measured against what is verifiably known to be true and if they make it through years of skeptical fire, then they are indeed true and worthy of acceptance.
holysinecure 2 years ago
I don't know what to think anymore. It seems the world is filled with such lies that there's no way to tell if something is true or not. Sigh....
illegalmonkey 2 years ago
scientific method??? just look at the technology created, who are you gonna trust more, the people who made them? or the people who are trying to hold back the people who made them?
PrinceOfDoubt 2 years ago
Archeological evidence shows that the Israelites were former Canaanites, thus explaining why they worshiped old Canaanite gods.
mrHBski 2 years ago
Good as portrayed in the Bible is this:
Jews Good, Everyone else Bad.
It is probably one reason Islam has surpassed the Judaic religion.
gjsterp 2 years ago
bout time someone said it...
UnkinglyLike 2 years ago
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DD/M93 great discussion , the bible is full of prophecies which r used in determining the truth .. DD dont fool yourself, u know God , and God is written G-o-d..
kimifrias 2 years ago
What prophecies and what proof?
DumbDesign 2 years ago
4th part of Continuation: Peter 2:10 sums some of this up. "...once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy. " That's why Jesus came. God promised a Savior right after Adam and Eve sinned and corrupted every generation to come. He keeps His promises. We are under grace, because God is love. He gave us law to keep us from harming others and for us to know the difference between good and bad.
Mehrunissah93 2 years ago
@Mehrunissah93 Look at it this way. The slaughter of the Canaanites is very similar to the 9/11 attacks. They were both HORRIBLE crimes against humanity. In both cases, they were men that believed with every fiber of their being that what they planned was commanded by God. The only reason why you don't see it this way it's 'cause you don't believe it was ordained by God.
DumbDesign 2 years ago
Because if you happened to believe the 9/11 attacks were commanded by God, you would justify it exactly the same way you justify the genocide of the Canaanites."We can't question God","God knew their hearts and He knew they deserved to die","look at the bright side..." There's no justification for such horrible acts of murder and genocide, but when someone says it was commanded by God, it SUDDENLY becomes ok, and THAT'S what's dangerous about religion...
DumbDesign 2 years ago
God didn't write this book. It was the work of primitive men who wanted to conquer and have more power, like any human. The idea that god has chosen you and wants you to be mighty and powerful corrupted any decency the primitive Israelites might have, and justified the slaughter of entire nations. And it's all good, because god commanded it, and what the concept of god represents is unquestionable authority. When humans claim this authority, DISASTER HAPPENS. Read the history books.
DumbDesign 2 years ago
If they wanted power do you think they'd say not to judge, love others as yourselves, not to get angry or rage or slander or steal or cheat or rob? If they wanted control do you think they'd tell you to worship and pray to another being instead of themselves as gods? Many people I meet say that, but that makes no sense to me, so please (no sarcasm) help me understand your point of view. Do you think they'd continually discuss mercy, forgiveness, love and compassion?
Mehrunissah93 2 years ago
Of course, every society must have rules in order to survive. But notice those rules mostly apply to how Israelites should treat Israelites. As you'll also read in the Bible, when it came to other nations; they were able to cheat, steal, murder and rape, as long as they were nations they considered "enemies" of their god. Enemies, not because God really told them they were enemies, but because those nations were doing things their culture had considered wrong.
DumbDesign 2 years ago
But perhaps the biggest reason why Israelites were so hostile to different cultures/religions is a little psychological phenomenon called "Xenophobia." That is the extreme hatred towards people of different cultures, ethnicity, race,etc...This also explains why the primitive Israelites make it VERY CLEAR in the scriptures that they thought they were a superior race, with a superior god and therefore had the right to conquer and destroy other nations.
DumbDesign 2 years ago
I recommend you watch a documentary called "The Bible's Buried Secrets" an inside look at what the archeological evidence says about whether or not the story in the Bible of the origins of the Israelites is true or fiction. Just search the terms "NOVA Bible" on GOOGLE, and you'll immediately find the links to watch it online. It'll give you a different perspective on this debate. If you don't live in the US you won't be able to watch it, but you can watch "BIBLE UNEARTHED" on Youtube.
DumbDesign 2 years ago
Finally, the key word is UNQUESTIONABLE. Every time there has been a leader with power who has prohibited and condemned anyone from questioning or criticize their action, disaster has happened. NOTHING should be unquestionable. Everything should be tested, every truth should have evidence to prove itself. When blind faith drives our judgment, it leaves space for deception and abuse of power.
I'm glad you are so open minded about this. I hope you'll learn to question everything from now on.
DumbDesign 2 years ago
I do question many things in society. You are correct about world leaders. But I see a difference in world leaders than what I do with God. Men like Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, etc never talked about equality (as God later does, because He wanted all people spared). While God "changed" and decided we'd no longer sacrifice animals (but pray) for forgiveness, we also no longer stone. God forgives all sins w/o question and w/o horrific executions. I've questioned [trust me:)]. Every believer does.
Mehrunissah93 2 years ago
The point is to ask if it's really God behind this given the massive, errors, cruelty and contradictions in the Bible. How do you know that the person who says is speaking in the name of God is really speaking in his name? There's no way. When an horrible act of cruelty, like the one the Israelites committed against the Caananites, is committed in the name of god (who's supposed to be omnibenevolent) that's a HUGE red flag, they are kookoo, and they just want power.
DumbDesign 2 years ago
But the O.T. wouldn't have been for power, because the O.T. mentions the need for a Savior and in the N.T., the Pharisees believe they're inerrant. The Jews were also jealous and didn't want others to be grafted into their salvation, but God's intention was to save the world (John 3:16). Therefore, I don't believe Jews did this for power. Also, they frequently rejected God. I know the Bible is God-breathed w/ humans as His instruments, because the Bible says so and it's consistent w/ God's plan.
Mehrunissah93 2 years ago
@Mehrunissah93 You have got to be kidding you believe the bible because it says it is true?
Any God with an IQ score higher then room temperature in celsius would right the book themselfs. The designed fall for example 2 sociopaths in a garden 1 pass of fail moral test and the fate of the human race at stake. What could go wrong?
Do you really think the creator of the universe would be that stupid?
How do you know what God's plan is?
Consisent?
Don't kill.
vs
Kill those babies!
SuperMerlin100 1 year ago
FINALLY,the God of the OT and NT are entirely different.Mainly because it was a written at a VERY different time by people with VERY different needs. We have to notice 2 things:1) the Jews don't consider the NT part of the Bible 2)the NT was written by people who viewed(or rather imagined)God differently according to their needs. As time goes by,the idea of god becomes more "friendly" and that's been consistent til today.God hated rock, but now,he loves it.God changes 'cause ppl change.
DumbDesign 2 years ago
I know Judaism doesn't involve Christ, however God didn't change because people or time changed. Like I said, God planned RIGHT AFTER Adam and Eve sinned to have a Savior (Gen.3:15). He always planned to put humanity under grace, instead of under law. However, He does say He doesn't want us to continue sinning as if repentance is a joke. The Bible has always said God is love. God showed much love in the O.T. (ie. Hagar, Abraham+Sarah, David, Solomon, Job, Cain, Israelite captives, Eze. 16).
Mehrunissah93 2 years ago
@Mehrunissah93
It's so good you know what God was planning...
leeroynaggins 2 years ago
well thought out
PrinceOfDoubt 2 years ago
3rd part of Continuation: We no longer get killed for not following the law. We no longer get stoned for adultery, breaking the Sabbath and so on. We can not repent and turn to God for forgiveness. Some Christians use the verse Hebrews 13:8 as a universal meaning for God never changing at all. However, if you read the passages about God changing you'll see the Bible refers to Him rewarding faithful people. I believe God has real emotions (He cries for the lost). We are no longer slaves to law.
Mehrunissah93 2 years ago
Continuation: Please give me time to further look into these things and discuss them with others. I don't want to assume or waste your time. The Bible does say that we as imperfect humans will not be able to understand everything God does (like allowing a loved one to die). Many things I don't understand (why so many children are born only to be raped, beaten, killed, tortured, etc). However, Jesus coming consoles me. Those children and non-believers all get a second chance. Read on....
Mehrunissah93 2 years ago
3rd part of continuation: So God would destroy the entire city full of polluted/corrupted people. Yet, I was also taught that those who never heard of God get a second chance to reject or accept Him during the Second Coming. That consoles me, as does the things I listed above.
Mehrunissah93 2 years ago
Continuation: Are you saying being a child automatically makes you innocent? Many children today are killers and manipulative liars. However, I am not trying to make the children seem like little devils. That's just something to think about. Anyway, I've been taught that children go to Heaven when they are not in knowledge of God. How much worse would it be if all the children were spared without parents or any sort of relative and grew up still rejecting and/or not knowing about God? continue
Mehrunissah93 2 years ago
@Mehrunissah93 It's hard to believe that a seemingly eloquent and rational person as you could justify the killing of innocent children and babies with such a pathetic argument. No, children are not all innocent, but they CERTAINLY DO NOT deserve to die. Their minds are fertile grounds, and even if they are indoctrinated to kill or commit vile acts, there's PLENTY of time for rehabilitation. On top of that, babies ARE innocent, and they were also killed.
DumbDesign 2 years ago
How much worse would it be if..." Great! so the only viable solution for the omnipotent omnscient creator of the universe is...KILL THEM ALL IN COLD BLOOD!!!, how lovely!
DumbDesign 2 years ago
I was not trying to justify killing children through that statement. To be honest, I see that writing it was an irrelevant and useless sentence and I apologize. God's manifestation can affect people. Like I said: some ignore and some listen. God told the apostles to dust off their feet and leave if the people refused to listen. Growing up I chose to ignore certain Biblical things, because I wasn't ready to change. I'll have to look up the Canaanites only to be fair to you. To be continued...
Mehrunissah93 2 years ago
It's not hard to believe they were all corrupted. Sodom and Gomorrah was fully corrupted and lust in their wickedness. Satan is powerful and once he gets you, sometimes many people don't want to turn back, because the truth is that sin is generally fun and physically pleasing. That's why Satan is so tempting.
Mehrunissah93 2 years ago
@Mehrunissah93 "It's not hard to believe they were all corrupted, blah blah, satan." So you say kids were also corrupted beyond redemption? are you saying Satan can corrupt beyond what God can redeem? are you saying God had really no other choice? Wasn't Paul also a murderer redeemed by a simple manifestation of Jesus? Couldn't God do the same with the cananites?
DumbDesign 2 years ago
No, I do not believe anyone is corrupted beyond redemption. I do believe that God gave us free will and forces NO ONE to accept Him into their hearts. I believe He gives us the freedom to reject or accept Him. Paul chose to accept God after he saw the truth and now we are no under the law, but under grace. That's what the death of Jesus did for us.
Mehrunissah93 2 years ago
@Mehrunissah93 I know the whole "can't interfere with people's will" thing, but manifesting to people and proving to them you are the one and only god does not interfere with their free will. They can still choose to worship other gods. If God hadn't revealed to Moses, how could he ever find out who the "real" god was? Why that opportunity was never given to the cananites? it sounds to me god's a little racist. And what's your justification for KIDS also being murdered?
DumbDesign 2 years ago
How do you know God hadn't shown Himself to the Canaanites? Have you heard of Cain and Abel? Cain killed Abel out of jealousy. God put a protective sign on him to spare him. However, despite the love and forgiveness God showed Cain, Cain continued to reject and even forget about God. Cain's children, grandchildren, and so on soon forgot about God and created their own gods. The same way an alcoholic parent can affect several generations, so did Cain. To be continued...
Mehrunissah93 2 years ago
Comment removed
Alaxtor 2 years ago
@Mehrunissah93 Simple, does the Bible says anything about God ever interfering with the Canaanites? No, right? oooh. Remember the numerous Bible passages that warn you NOT to add or substract anything to the bible. So, if it's not written in the Bible, it did not happen, right? Cain's disobedience to god despite his encounter with him proves that god's manifestation doesn't interfere with free will.? Even if all God could have done WAS done, killing an entire nation for...
DumbDesign 2 years ago
We need 2 understand r God please dont fool yourselves your lives r but a mist
kimifrias 2 years ago
"We need 2 understand r God"
Well, it really depends on where you are born or to which god you subscribe.
For the Muslim, Agnostic, Hindu, Buddhist, Sikh, Jew, Jain, Shinto, Cao Dai, Zoroastrian, Tenrikyo, Unitarian, Rastafarian, or Scientologist, they could be different.
holysinecure 2 years ago
Comment removed
chimichimichim 1 year ago
I'm glad our primate species has moved -- for the most part -- beyond those primitive times.
PencilsAreAwesome 2 years ago 2
You know what's funny, you read verses like 2 Kings 17:16-18, Ezekiel 16:20-26, Jeremiah 19:1, and Judges 11 and you see that Israel did some of the same things their enemies did, but God wasn't so harsh when it came time to punish them, he actually let some of them live. [sarcasm]What a just God! [/sarcasm]
tedarklordhappypants 2 years ago
0:31
When the bible talks about things that in fact did exist, the propaganda is OBVIOUS!
Hjernespreng 2 years ago 3
Can you be more specific? I am not quite sure what you are talking about.
Thanks for watching.
holysinecure 2 years ago
Great series! Seems like god treats his creation (earth/humans) like a video game!
womanlybassplayer 2 years ago 3
without extra lives, heh.
ServeTheHive 2 years ago
" --- which included children, and was therefore morally wrong."
Ohw, so it wasn't morally wrong before? =|
Iced1992 2 years ago
In the fundamentalist christian world, the Israelites were god's hand of judgement on the inhabitants of the promised land because of Canaanite wickedness. *That* is the context of the remark about children.
I disagree with it, but assuming it that *was* true, I am asking what the children did to be "wicked" or deserving of death.
holysinecure 2 years ago
she was saying if you can say the adults were guilty of death it also asks for the death of children and that makes it immoral-
if the adults were guilty, am i making sense?
rubixxcube 2 years ago
Right.
Assuming (and I disagree) that what conservative christians say who justify genocide by the Israelites because they were killing adults as a result of their [Canaanite] wickedness, then I am asking what babies and children did [that could be considered "wicked"] to also be killed during the genocide.
I think, if any of this is actually historically accurate, that any sort of killing (adults or children) because a deity said to is barbaric and wrong.
holysinecure 2 years ago
i couldnt agree any more!
lolz thanks for the informative videos, i watched the whole series in like a day...i need more!!
i await them eagerly!
Garrett Megalodon.
rubixxcube 2 years ago 3
lETS USE COMMON SENSE
Would you Carry The picture of your brutally kill father in your neck Like Religions do with jesus
Would you carry the electric chair that your father was executed in your neck
like jesus in the cross
would you drink your fathers blood like a cannibal just because the religion says that is right?
JUST COMMON SENSE
independentconceptz 2 years ago 2
hmmm ... ?
kimifrias 2 years ago
i leve in israel and i dont belive in god and this video make realy realy good points that well make a lote of belevers think hopefly
wokinstorm 2 years ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
being condemned by GOD is not murder it's ''the wages of sin'' be careful of your thoughts & actions the children just might become victims of selfs / ourselves ... GOD is GOOD we are bad , doubting GOD is a mistake .. correctable mistake
kimifrias 2 years ago
Mimifrias, besides god telling the children of Israel to kill the inhabitants of the promised land, what did the canaanite men, women, and especially children do to deserve death?
holysinecure 2 years ago
Right, punishment for thought-crimes huh? Fucking hell, that is morally depraved. I want nothing to do with it. It's atrocious.
wrongwayup 2 years ago 3
No... don't you listen? God isn't good. I have no idea what the biblical death toll is, but considering at one point the earth was flooded, killing every man, woman and child, it's going to be quite high. It is unjustifiable; the thought process 'god is good, therefore what he does is good' is flawed. In our day to day lives, we judge whether people are 'good' based on their actions. We never make a predetermination and then assume anything they do is consistent with that assumption.
monkeymox 2 years ago 8
kim..
I heard sick apologists before but U take the honors.
One of the reasons I decided to change from a believer to an Atheist is the insane, murderous deeds of yahweh god!!
What's the difference between yahweh and Saddam Hussein?? None, other than one calls himself god, even though the other may have started to believe he was one.
Would you be so insane and fearful as to worship either monster??
Cootabux 2 years ago 2
Wow... God is good... we are bad... we are not gods not even on u-tube... with all r limits never could u or i explain God totally ... God saw what we , thank God, what we will never ... something worst then sodom n gomorrah all the sin of las vegas n los angles co mingling as your neighbors then u expect grandchildren too Love God... noway u get u n your u tube , good luck better yet ... GOD BLESS... He done it b4 ...
kimifrias 2 years ago
Comment removed
kimifrias 2 years ago
This is insane ps you forgot yourself about the kids grand chrilden ect.
I'm only 14 ( I was 13 two days ago =D)
I believed in GOD because everyone else did where i lived but when i realized two years ago that GOD was like a fairytail i thought wtf? Now i see how crazy this is in Denmark where i live GOD is a normal thing in school i wont accept that i don't want my kids to believe in a none existing psycho... O__O Sorry for the word expression's i dont have anything agaisnt people believing^^
darkdestiny0002 2 years ago 4
dark...
Good for you! It hopeful when I see young people smart enough to not be taken in.
I was put in a Catholic school from day one. They indoctrinated me & screwed up a good part of my life. U R lucky to see thru it bcuz you have your whole life ahead of you.
Cootabux 2 years ago 2
@darkdestiny0002 you are wrong!
dcpony22 7 months ago
@dcpony22
My opinion has changed, since the last year.
Besides what am I wrong about?
darkdestiny0002 7 months ago
@darkdestiny0002 God exists, read the bible and do what is says so one day you would be in paradise insted of burning in hell foever!!
dcpony22 6 months ago
What's the difference between killing a child and an adult. Both actions are morally wrong.
stargateproductions 2 years ago
See my comments above to johntheother above..
Thanks for watching.
holysinecure 2 years ago
"What's the difference between killing a child and an adult"
In terms of cold, hard facts rather than emotional appeal?
An adult's mind is fully formed and most core mindsets permanently ingrained. If they grew up in a culture where it's acceptable to sacrifice people and eat their hearts, for example, it would be nigh impossible to change their mind on the matter.
Children, on the other hand, are still pliable. A blank slate, if you will. There are better alternatives to simply killing them.
CriticalDoubt 2 years ago
when did GOD change the wages of sin was death / today it still is / ''the wages of sin is death''
kimifrias 2 years ago
5:04 , Don 't you listen what this video is saying at the end ? was the murder of innocent children acceptable in the old testament because god directed it ? should we expect, righteous, moral and ethical laws to come from god regardless of time and palce ?
kuverta 2 years ago
should we expect, righteous, moral and ethical laws to come from god regardless of time and palce? What does that indicate ? is it that we now in modern times need new New Testament : )
kuverta 2 years ago
genocide is genocide no matter how you slice it, God cheapens human life
clownporn1 2 years ago 3
5:28 is what has always bothered me even as a child. I would hear God never changes, he is the same yesterday, today, and forever.
Much of what you have in your video series up to this video, I have questioned and have been troubled over for the majority of my life so far. I plan on finishing your series.
Ma2the2WR 2 years ago 2
that the canaanites sacrificed (supposedly) their children..how is THIS different than abraham when asked, willingly setting out to sacrifice issac?
the answer: no difference.
practicalmagic9 2 years ago 3
2:59 is what kept me enslaved to chrisitanity for a LOOONNGGG time...
sadly.and i am happy to be free of this circle of lies.
practicalmagic9 2 years ago 2
Excellent videos.
216trixie 2 years ago
wow excellent video! This series was put together extremely well. I hate it when christians find a way to make the horrible things god did in the old testament somehow right and just, and i love how you address this.
Shigren 2 years ago
Ramstein FTW!
RobotzAreAwesome 2 years ago
Holysinecure, why is it worse if the people being killed are children, than if they are adults? Are the lives of adults of lesser value than the lives of children? For that matter, why is the enslavement and/or murder of women more egregious than the enslavement and/or murder of men?
johntheother 2 years ago 2
johntheother it's not worst but with children we can know for sure that they are not evil.
you can justify easy a crime towards an adult because you can say he is evil but with children this is impossible.
caprioaraciprian 2 years ago
Precisely.
holysinecure 2 years ago
i'm sad when i see that people follow a religion and a god when theirs morals are above that god.Morals evolve and we must keep question them so we can reach another level(a better one).
if we stick with 2000 years old morals than we can't talk about evolution.
holysinecure you have all my respect and in my opinion you do much more good than a god believer.If a god exist he should appreciate you more than a Bible guy.A true god would preach knowledge and education not war,obeying, indifference
caprioaraciprian 2 years ago
"why is the enslavement and/or murder of women more egregious than the enslavement and/or murder of men?"
Again is not about wich one is more egregious. man can protect themselves better than a woman. Man and woman are equal IN RIGHTS(or they should). In many other aspect they are very different.
When a women is killed the act is close to an execution than to a fighting. Same with children.
caprioaraciprian 2 years ago
cuz gess what hapens to female slaves
deadmen117 2 years ago
no i see where you're coming from and i agree... 5* to this video and more like it. thank you.
victoriaaspen123 2 years ago
Here is the crux of the matter. For fundamentalist christians who believe in an inerrant, divine bible, the only defensible position is that the genocide in the old testament actually occurred, because it permeates the scriptures. The believer then must come up with a reason to justify what is clearly written to have occurred. (cont.)...
holysinecure 2 years ago
The end result is some sort of justification for the genocide which just so happens to include the murder of children. So it is the believers that have the courage of their spiritual convictions that will suggest the killing of children, if ordained or directed by god, must have been justified.
A logical conclusion to reach if 1) you believe these events actually occurred and 2) you believe the bible is infallible and god-breathed. (cont.)...
holysinecure 2 years ago
In my opinion this is partly why christianity has become more moderate, and more flavors of it get to pick and choose what they find acceptable within the scriptures.
Taking a literal approach is just an untenable position.
holysinecure 2 years ago
If we are to scream at ourselves within, in a most dire of attepmts at understnding rather than wanting, facing the reality without fear seems to be a virtue utterly alien to The Pretenders among us. For want of a god we have let die, both with force and ignorance, but for need of truth we have toiled in the mud. Hated since, we have been known as Skeptics. Only a sincere being would dare snatch an innocent from the hungry jaws of a god.
rxangel18 2 years ago 3
the murder of children is horrible....yet the stories of in the bible are just that....stories....no proof exist that shows any of it ever happened.
hangthebastard 2 years ago
and yet christians read them as literal events!
Shigren 2 years ago
While I am in agreement in relation to exposing the fallacies of biblical genocide, I must protest your use of biblical stories in relation to mass murder as proof that the events even occurred. There is no concrete evidence that there was a "Moses" or many other biblical figures to have committed these acts. While I'll grant the possibility of some murders - as I would in any culture, basing an argument on such evidence is unnecessary to prove your point.
Deuterstomia 2 years ago
I think I said this in another comment thread, but it bears repeating. I have read and viewed evidence questioning the historicity of the exodus - I think it has merit.
However, this video is for people questioning their faith - especially fundamentalist christians that believe the bible is divine, inerrant, and literally translated. It is within that context that the comments in this video are framed - the historicity of the exodus notwithstanding.
Thanks for your comment :)
holysinecure 2 years ago
As a former born-again fundamentalist and former apologist, I do understand who these videos are framed for. I suppose your use of pictures of children and asking viewers to think about these being killed by Israelites is what sparked my response. But the issue is not the historical murder of any groups but the fact that the bible god justifies murder presented in the bible, whether they be children or adults. Regardless, I am enjoying your presentation in this series. Keep up the good work.
Deuterstomia 2 years ago
Thanks again.
In the first video, we mentioned we compiled a study notes into what essentially became the chapters of this series as we studied our way out of fundamentalist christianity.
We had discussions with ex-church members and in their defense of OT purging of the promised land, a typical justification was that the israelites were the god's hand of justice. The idea was that the inhabitants of the land were being punished for sin. (continued)...
holysinecure 2 years ago
Consequently, our approach was to ask what the children were guilty of to deserve death. Obviously, it was a rhetorical question, but some of the folks with whom we spoke justified it.
Since it was a disturbing part of our face to face discussions, it made its way into our study notes. We have 4 children and Mrs. Holysinecure found the justification of killing children especially repulsive.
Hence the emphasis in the video when discussing common defenses for OT genocide.
holysinecure 2 years ago
Thank you for intelligently articulating the obscenities present in the Bible. I simply have never understood why this book was ever accepted as the word of GOD.
Neffabletranscendent 2 years ago
it was accepted in the past by the sword/ force !
anonymous6E6R6 2 years ago
A well structured and brilliantly argued position...too bad this is the exact sort of logical and reasoned argument that flys in one ear and out the other of the 99.9% of the christians you left behind.
Just kidding, there are some believers out there like yourself that will benefit greatly from your video. You did a great thing in making this.
Hopeful71 2 years ago
I'm going to be showing these videos to some christian friends of mine.
Great work.
shreddakj 2 years ago 2
"The murder of children can never be justified."
I don't like this sentence. It seems to imply, that murder of adults can be justified. And whoever believes that is dangerous.
amulware 2 years ago
100% agreed.
As we departed our religion we had conversations with our ex-church members.
In those discussions, the approach was, "let's say the slaughter of Canaanites *was* holy judgement, what deeds do you ascribe to the innocent children that justified their death?".
These videos were derived from those discussions coupled with our compiled studies, that is why the video places emphasis on the killing of kids. The emphasis shouldn't be confused with tacit approval of killing adults.
holysinecure 2 years ago
Great work and thanks
3rdeyewildopen 2 years ago
★★★★★
Katalyzt 2 years ago
god damn god is one sick fuck! thanks for putting it into perspective for all of us.
LordHines420 2 years ago
i love these videos. I wish i had seen these when you made them. I would've left christianity much much sooner.
immerzuschauen 2 years ago 2
This has been flagged as spam show
:) welcome to the dark side!
cmba101 2 years ago
We've got cookies.
MarowakDidIt 2 years ago
lol, no one is going to leave jewstianity over a few youtube videos. come on, now. it takes years of personal realizations and a great paradigm shift. but yeah, these videos rock!
LordHines420 2 years ago 2
A fantastic video. Excellent work, and thank you for your open-minded ness.
My disillusionment from Yahweh, like yours, has less to do with his existence, and more to do with his alleged nature, and the sheer hypocrisy between the testaments.
Captain42x 2 years ago
Actually, it started with the difference between his nature and who he said he is supposed to be versus what his book says that gave way to lack of belief.
Thanks for the comment :)
holysinecure 2 years ago
Yahweh was a tribal god, a god among many gods, until Christianity changed him into the god of the universe. It could have worked had they thrown away all the Old Testament scriptures, but they got too entangled with the whole messianic prophecy thing, resulting in a contradictory creature now known simply as God.
But I'm actually glad that's the way things are. Being able to see clearly how the christian religion evolved from primitive tribalistic beliefs made my deconversion a lot easier.
ObakeOnna 2 years ago
hahaha!
invizible friend! FUCK HIM!
Ryagful 2 years ago
Ok ill make it simple for Christan's God ordered the assassination of children! But wait isn't god good??
theabomation 2 years ago
Dilbert's boss: "The problem with hiring a hitman is you have to have him killed to cover your tracks. Then you have to hire someone to kill the hitman who killed the hitman. It's an endless cycle." Catbert: "But ultimately it's free."
RadarKat73080 2 years ago 2
Do you or do you not agree that murder and genocide is wrong givemeknowle(d)ge?
What's with the try to distort us with the assumption that morals differ between those who believe and those who not.
MoveOrder 2 years ago