Remember leaders of different Christian sects, the will of God is undivided Christianity. Give up your churches, no more Catholic, Protestants, Adventist, JW etc. If you think that I am wrong then prove that you are right. Ive asked the Lord for the two simultaneous explosion of volcano in the U.S. within this month of December, pray that it wouldnt happen, if despite of your prayer it does happen, then know that God is with me therefore you have to listen to me.
Am I the only one that sees the blasphemy here? First off, the video portrays the Holy Sabbath as a burden and boring to keep. It mocks all we stand for. It takes the focus off of God. Think I am being too critical or extreme? You very life will be compromised very soon. All will be forced to make a decision. Our faith and doctrines are holy and should be honored for they uphold the Character of God. It is not to be mocked- Galatians 6:7-8. I can't chill out. My life depends on my focus on God.
I can kind of see what your saying in that certain things can take away focus on God however im sure God dont expect people especially children to sit back do nothing on the sabbath or read the Bible and pray ALL day continual 12 hours within the sabbath or even sleep the sabbath away just to pass the time away.
We are to make the sabbath a delight for it isnt cumbersome and if anything is Biblical and educational for children like cards, then i personally cannot see harm in it thats just me.
@DigitalPraise7 people like you with your attitude are the reason people like me acted the same way when they were kids. the reason it's funny is because it is true! maybe it shouldn't be, but it is.
I see nothing funny about negating the Holiness of the Sabbath. But it is true as EGW foretold. The day would come when many Adventists downplay the importance of the Holy Sabbath.
I LOVE the Sabbath. it was made for me by god and I would never downplay its importance. EGW also talks about how we should make every effort to make Sabbath a delight for our kids and this "commercial" is pointing out the reality that most adventist homes make Sabbath a burden. "don't do this and that" should be "Let's do this and that" we need to find fun ways to give our kids something to look forward to on the seventh day.
i'm glad it's back. i am aseventh-day-adventist and i must admit it wasa long day as a kid. it's funny to see it. when i was a kid i went to camp ausable in michigan. when we was leaving they gave us sandwhices for the ride3 home. i got a sandwhich and asked someonat kind of sandwhich it was. they said wham. i said no thanks i don't eat pork so i threw it out the window. i never heard o wham. i'd heard of cedar lake choplets but not wham. lol
@doedeedum lol! I went to the same camp as a kid! they told me that wham comes from a whog. lol. I would have loved to trade those cards when i was a kid. somethin to do on the sabbath
"Every species of animal which God had created were preserved in the ark. The confused species which God did not create, which were the result of amalgamation, were destroyed by the flood. Since the flood there has been amalgamation of man and beast, as may be seen in the almost endless varieties of species of animals, and in certain races of men." Ellen G. White, Spiritual Gifts, Vol. 3, p. 75
@temp445 You ought to be careful what you post. I am not an SDA, I don't know what your purpose in writing this was, but taken out of context (which it will be), it really will alienate most people. Once again, I'm not an SDA, I don't even like EGW. But I understand enough about her to know that what is written by her here had a way different meaning to her than it does to people today. whiteestate[dot]org/issues/amalg.html
that's a crack up mate :) u hit the nail on the head for a lot of homes / kids i've seen. and why are they like that? cos they don't know Jesus well enuf to see the sabbath as a blessing. And to all you mockers - all good things come from God who causes the rain to fall on the just AND the unjust alike. look it up! He loves u 2!
This just gets funnier and funnier. It's no longer about the video. It's about everyone's religious hangups now. Thank you, God that I am no longer tied to these types of "Christians". I am no longer judged by them. Only by You.
lets say a am an sda. i did get bautized, its just that im explore my options in. so how bout you stop trying to learn about me. who the hell looks at other peoples profiles to judge them? DONT JUDGE ME. YOOU HAVE NO RIGHT WHATSOEVER. keep judgin', your day also awaits you
Matrix, Good people don't go to heaven, only people who accept Jesus as their Lord & Savior into their lives.
Look how you represent yourself as a SDA. Your gonna burn like a roasted chicken but forever.
Repent ! - turn to Jesus or you'll end up being Satan's next so-called guest in hell - Satan accepts, welcomes & loves people with Potty mouths like yourself.
Matrix, Your playing w/fire. It is a sin to cuss. Your gonna learn the hard way when you face Jesus & regret using the bible as an excuse to cuss. If you take God's name in vain on purpose, thats breaking God's 3rd Commandment, meaningt its a sin. -- Repent !
is the whole sda church fanatical about religion, or is it just you? my judgement day awaits me. i know im a good person and i need not explain what i do to you. god knows what i do. thanks for understanding (thats me being sarcastic)
Good point man. However, not all Adventists are jerks. I think it's a positive thing that you are aware of your actions, and take responsibility for them. I also agree that you are not necessarily obligated to explain yourself to humans, although it can be helpful at times. The main thing for all of us is to just be accountable to God.
Wow Matrixener. That kind of language would have gotten me kicked out of academy so fast I wouldn't have known what hit me! If you are a SDA, as you seem to be since you are so upset, I guess the church has changed a great deal. Is this how it is now?
OMG! This video is so funny! Reading these comments, though, is really depressing. Same old same old. Nit picking, arrogance, etc. Makes me glad to be a happy ex-adventist.
if u ever took the time to read he writings she says she is a lesser light pointing to a greater light which is the bible. you arent supposed to replace the bible w/ her writings which is a problem most adventists have. but u can have both
toribear, it is no problem with us Adventist. Ellen White said that she was a lesser light than the Bible. In all her writings she ALWAYS pointed to the Bible. We know Ellen White was a great lady, but we also know nothing can compare to God's holy Word, the Bible. It takes first place EVERY time.
I think that this video is frickin hilarious. And I am proud to be called a Seventh-Day Adventist. But also a Christian. If you don't believe in something, let it alone, no need to bash people!
right on - this video is a crack up and shows that we can have a laugh at ourselves. no need to bash anyone - Jesus didn't, even when a soldier cut off one of his mate's ears. that would make me wanna throw a few punches!! keep the faith.
Matrix, I see your on your way to eternal hell torment. Jesus will Not allow people w/Potty mouths into His kingdom. ---- Repent ! - turn to Jesus or face Him as your Judge.
Matrix, Your under estimating Jesus thinking He's gonna allow you into His kingdom when you cuss. News Flash ! - Cussing is a sin & your SDA self just committed a sin here on this blog.
Also, Jesus has Zero talorence for folks w/Potty mouths.
Don't underestimate the Lord & think He winks at sin - He doesn't.
i will confront the lord when the time comes. but cursing for me is not a sin. no where in the bible does it mention curse words being a sin. that something society/man created. cursing are words with with emotion. there part of the dictionary. so god help me, i believe god doesnt mind me using curse words when im mad
matrixener... God bless you!! i was like u before... just let Jesus act in your life and you'll see the difference!! God bless you and you're a child of God ok?? tc...
I'm a Christian 1st and foremost, Protestant 2nd, and Adventist third. But what you're saying about adventists is not entirely true. Truth mixed with lies. e.g... eating pork isn't evil, or mcdonalds, neither is drinking, neither is smoking, but all three are unhealthy if you do it all the time do you not agree? so why keep putting in your mouth? If hell is eternal, God is not just, think about it.
Sneeky, What does food have to do with everything else I wrote ?
I disagree, your Not a Christian because you hold bold onto the Sabbath & believe that Sunday worship is the Mark of the Beast, meaning Adventist will be the only ones 'saved' because they kept the "loyalist test" of Sabbath keepping.
Jesus said in John 14:6 He's the only way, not Sabbath keeping.
You said, "Isaiah 65 and 66 do not mention people occupying heaven."
Is this your belief? No one occupying Heaven in Isaiah 65 and 66? Who is keeping your sabbath and new moon festivals that are mentioned in Isaiah 66:22,23?
You would have us believe the Sabbath is in Heaven and that Isaiah 66:22,23 is proof of such and yet you say no one is occupying Heaven in Isaiah 65 and 66...
"yet you say no one is occupying Heaven in Isaiah 65 and 66... Huh?"
Hawg, these questions validate that you have NO CLUE about SDA beliefs and teachings!
When Isa. 65 and 66 point to a time AFTER God has made the new heavens and the new earth, WE undertsand that all of the redeemed will by then be dwelling for eternity UPON THE NEW EARTH, with heaven merely being a temporary home during the millennium.
So now you FINALLY know what ALL SDA PASTORS have learned in Theology 101, or even sooner!
Here's some SDA 101 for you, stuff I learned when taking my first Revelation Seminar 20 years ago.
The term "Heaven" corresponds to the New Jerusalem which SDA's teach will come down and land here on earth after the Millennium. Your comment that "Heaven" is a temporary home is contradictory to the church's teaching. The New Jerusalem will reside here on earth according to SDA theology.
Will people be occupying the New Jerusalem? Will they be a part of the new earth?
"The New Jerusalem will reside here on earth according to SDA theology.
Will people be occupying the New Jerusalem? Will they be a part of the new earth?
C'mon..."
Yes, and Yes.
According to John 14:1-3, New Jerusalem is presently under construction, and is where Christ promises to take us to reside with Him, upon His Second Coming. A thousand years later, New Jerusalem will be brought to earth, where following the Final Judgment and destruction of the wicked, it will permanently settle.
Alright, then they will be keeping the Sabbath, the Levitical Priesthood will be reinstituted, and people will die at 100 years old...if you care about context.
Again, my experience in Heaven will be a Rev. 21:1-4 experience, not an Isaiah 65 and 66 experience.
It's really not that difficult friend. You just have to decide whether or not you're going to leave the proof-texting behind and embrace a contextual integrity of God's word.
Hawg, speaking of CONTEXT, the message to Isaiah was probably given in those terms in order to help HIM better understand it in relation to HIS life and times, rather than to completely be taken literally today.
Is not JESUS presently, at least to a certain extent, performing the duties formerly undertaken by the Levites, in His ministry in heaven?
"...rather than to completely be taken literally today." Then we can put to rest Isaiah 66:22,23 as providing any "literal" proof as to keeping the Sabbath in Heaven.
As per your second point, are we now transitioning to discussing the IJ? I'd love to...
Hawg, you're free to do whatever you like about Isaiah 65 and 66, and so am I. As for the IJ, all I need to know pertaining to its validity is Christ's words of Rev. 22:11 and 12, since He's said it all right there, having AT THAT TIME, immediately prior to leaving heaven and coming back here, already determined the saved from the lost, and so stated it to be the case.
No, we are not free to do what we please with God's word. You couldn't be more wrong.
We must submit to it...all of it. Contextually...
You can't proof text your way through in your journey. Your treatment of Isaiah 66:22,23 is proof that the SDA's "collection" of texts are not what they think they are.
It dangerous what SDA's have done to God's holy word and your statement that we are free to do whatever we want with it is over the top.
"your statement that we are free to do whatever we want with it is over the top"
What I mean is that if you want to accept it as you infer it to be, then do so, and I'll do likewise; we're obviously on different pages regarding it, and it's up to the Holy Spirit to bring about any and all necessary conviction either way.
So what is the point of this video... I don't think I get it. lol
We should rest from our own works and try to spend the Sabbath as we'd spend our time in Heaven- without arguments and competition and anything hindering our learning about Jesus.
I find it interesting that I am somehow "doing it wrong" when I am simply obeying and doing my best to keep Gods Law. I am aware that Grace is covering me to make me acceptable and that it isnt by works. The law points out sin- When we break it- Jesus blood covers it- but that doesn't mean I should try to break it. THATS PAUL AND JESUS WORDS.
One thing we all need to be careful of is that we don't worship the Sabbath as much as the Lord of the Sabbath--Jesus Christ. If we fall into the trap of defending SDA's, Sabbath etc... we end up neglecting "the more important matters of the law--justice, mercy and faithfulness."
You can see from the comments on this video that this video attracts "burned" adventists, who left the church because of the Sabbath. Unfortunately, those people use this video as a springboard to slander SDAs, and perhaps more unfortunately, SDAs use it as an opportunity to further slam and argue with these people instead of realizing that SDAs aren't perfect either and accept each other as brothers and sisters in Christ.
For clarification purposes, I'm a "former" and had nothing but wonderful experiences in the church as a Pastor for 16 years.
I left because of the New Covenant. The Sabbath being the "test of loyalty" was one of many teaching errors that buffered my decision. The Investigative Judgment, Ellen White, and some of the various peripheral issues were also reasons.
My departure from the church was the simple result of my deepening relationship with Christ. Loved the people but not the teachings.
Hawg, what is it about the New Covenant that caused you to give up being SDA? Since it became effective at the instant of Jesus' death on the cross, it can't be that you're convicted of "Sunday sacredness" due to its inception, can it? By the time Jesus was resurrected from the tomb on Sunday, according to Gal. 3:15 it was far too late to bring about any changes in "covenental" practices.
"The New Covenant Sabbath is a Person, not a day."
Hawg, if that is fact, since the NC's inception AT THE CROSS, and Jesus having been on earth with the apostles for nearly six weeks AFTER His resurrection, please tell us how it is that routine weekly Sabbaths were being observed by both Jews and Gentiles, much of the time together, for MANY YEARS thereafter? Or that JOHN, SIXTY YEARS LATER, was STILL referring to the Lord's day as something that hadn't gone anywhere during HIS ENTIRE LIFESPAN?
Hebrews 4 speaks of a "sabbath-like" (sabbatismos) rest that is entered into "Today". That is the "Sabbath-rest" that "remains...for the people of God". Heb 4:9.
Jesus is the Jubilee as evidenced in Luke 4. I've showed that here before but will re-post it if you'd like.
Paul kept a feast day (Acts 18:21) after the resurrection. Does that mean we should keep those?
"a "sabbath-like" (sabbatismos) rest that is entered into "Today" " is INDEED the very same Sabbath DAY "made for MAN (not J-E-W!) that Christ established at Creation. This Sabbath rest protects people from burnout as they go about their occupational duties and cares of the world during the rest of the week.
You need to read the entire chapter of Hebrews 4. You're not getting its full meaning. Even SDA scholars admit that Hebrews 4 is not the place to go to defend "sabbath-keeping". It is not describing the "Seventh-day" sabbath.
If the author of Hebrews wanted to "sabbath day" he would have used the word for Sabbath. He doesn't do that.
He doesn't use "Sabbaton" which is the Greek for Sabbath, he uses "sabbatismos" which is a Sabbath-like rest. That rest is available in a Person, not a day.
"Hebrews 4 is not the place to go to defend "sabbath-keeping" "
Sabbath keeping neither NEEDS nor REQUIRES defense. Christians, other than those in name only, are allowing Jesus Christ to RULE their lives as their LORD, or "Boss", correct?
Once HE has control, HE performs IN AND WITH US the very same type of loving service and obedience to His Father that He has ALWAYS done as His routine; we are merely HIS earthly bodies used for HIS works.
For some strange reason HE always kept the Sabbath!
Sabbath-keeping is fine if someone would like to do that. I have no issue with it. My issue is how Sabbatarians (mainly SDA's) make it the test of loyalty and the final test for the true people of God.
That is not Biblical and is divisive to the body of Christ.
Jesus kept the feast days as well. Should we keep those? He was also circumcized. Should all males be circumcized as well?
"My issue is how Sabbatarians (mainly SDA's) make it the test of loyalty and the final test for the true people of God"
God had a minor issue with two people once. He told them not to go near or touch a certain tree nor partake of its fruit. How bad can things go by simply picking and eating fruit; it's ONLY nourishment?
THEIR disloyalty was LESS than the observance of God's only holy day of ANY week, EVER. Because of THAT, where are we now?
So show us that Sabbath observance is the test of loyalty to God. It appears once from Romans to Revelation, which is the guide for Christian living for the early believers. Paul mentions the day once and he tells us not to judge one another with regards to it.
Show us from Scripture that the Sabbath is the Seal of God. I'll show you that the Seal of God is the Holy Spirit (Eph 1:13)
God has given many commands and many of them are no longer binding.
If you want to know about a "test of loyalty" to God, just keep following after MAN for the rest of your life, and in the Judgment it'll be completely clear to you, whatever it might be, just before you hit the fire.
When there's a lack of Scriptural proof for one's position, damning the other person to hell typically adds a balm of security to one's quickly shattering paradigm.
Yours is simply another example of a person unwilling to move away from their cherished traditions of men instead of bowing at the feet of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Also, the New Covenant is the current binding covenant. The Old Covenant's "ministry of death engraved on tablets of stone" II Cor 3:7, is "obsolete" (Heb 8:13), the New has been built on "better promises" (Heb 8:6).
Hawg, just WHAT is contained within the New Covenant? GOD's NEVER-CHANGING LAWS, firmly imprinted upon the hearts and minds of His believers!
The "better promises" are chiefly HIS; once WE "promise" to accept HIM, He promises to PUT those laws INTO us, as compared to the Israelites' promises of the Old Covenant recorded in Exodus 19; "all that the Lord speaketh, we will do" --- and then went "Oops!", more or less, when they realized that their commitments didn't match their desires.
And THEN, better yet, Christ indwells us by the presence of His Holy Spirit and thereby provides us with the POWER OF GOD to do ANYTHING THAT HE WOULD DO in being FULLY OBEDIENT to the wishes of His Father, REGARDLESS of the requirement! PRAISE HIS HOLY NAME FOR THIS!
Yes, we should definitely obey our Father in Heaven! Amen to that too brother!
However, we are not under the Torah/Mosaic/Old Covenant any longer. The Law was "added" "until" the "Seed" (Gal 3:19). We are no longer under the schoolmaster but are instead under Christ (Gal 3:24,25).
The "ministry of death engraved on tablets of stone" has no glory when compared to the "ministry of the Spirit"...(II Cor 3:7-18)
What are those "NEVER-CHANGING" laws? The Sabbath? If that's the case then it's eternal...right?
The Sabbath is not eternal because we know it was "made for man". It didn not exist before man so we know it's not a part of God's eternal character. God has no need to rest and Jesus said in John 5:17 that God is working to this very day.
God's commandments for His people have fluctuated through each of His covenants with us. Is circumcision still a binding command? No...so there is change.
"The Sabbath? If that's the case then it's eternal...right?"
RIGHT, according to Isa. 66:23!
It would appear that since JESUS customarily observed the weekly Sabbaths, NOT simply "because He was a Jew", but BECAUSE HE WAS ALL ABOUT LOVE FOR HIS FATHER, which resulted in His unquestioning, unprotesting OBEDIENCE to Him in all things, it wouldn't be a bad idea for you and me to do likewise for the very same reason!
To understand Isaiah 66:22,23, you have to read Isaiah 65 and 66, which is the context.
The chapters speak about the Levitical priesthood being reinstituted and the child dying at 100 years old within the same context as New Moons and Sabbath days.
Are those going to be a part of "eternity" as well?
The Sabbatarian is trapped by the context to either admit those things or kick them out of the chapter. You can't keep the Sabbath part and leave the "child dying at 100" alone.
"The chapters speak about the Levitical priesthood being reinstituted"
Hawg, read Isa. 65:17; I've copied it and MORE here "just for you"!
"For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind."
Please show how these events ever came about in regards to the reinstitution of the Levitical priesthood, or better yet, WHY it should EVER NEED to be reinstituted?
uh-h-h-h ..... Jesus took care of all of those practices, didn't He?
Isa. 65:23-They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the LORD, and their offspring with them.
24-And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear.
25-The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.
With regards to Isiaih 65 and 66, you believe all those things will be in Heaven?
Really? You believe that? You believe people will die at 100 years old?(Is 65:20)
"New heaven and earth" cannot be speaking about the Heaven where God's literal throne exists today. Its most probable meaning is the return of the Jews from Babylonian captivity which was a new era in their existence as a nation.
I'll take that description and you can have your Sabbath, people dying and festivals in Heaven.
"You believe people will die at 100 years old?(Is 65:20)"
Can't you even READ? And you CLAIM to have been an SDA pastor, and spent 20 years in the church, no doubt as only a pew-warmer? That verse says BABIES will "die" at 100 years, when they would obviously grow into LITTLE CHILDREN; we're talking ETERNITY here!
If you were TRULY an accredited SDA pastor, that passage about the "New heaven and earth" would be completely clear to you!
While I have no doubts about my ability to read, I'm genuinely wondering whether or not you are truly able to see the text. Let me quote it:
"Never again will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not live out his years; HE WHO DIES AT A HUNDRED WILL BE THOUGHT A MERE YOUTH; he who fails to reach a hundred will be considered accursed." Isaiah 65:20
Did you see it? It says "HE WHO DIES", meaning people are dying...understand?
The KJV has it somewhat different from the quote you gave;
20-There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for THE CHILD shall die an hundred years old; but THE SINNER being an hundred years old shall be accursed.
As for "That's your Heaven...", if you're not interested in heaven, I'm not about to force it on you!
The KJV doesn't alter the meaning of the text. It only enforces my position further.
Your attempt to make the Sabbath appear in Heaven also makes "THE CHILD shall die an hundred years old" a part of it as well.
I prefer this:
"He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away." Revelation 21:4
Hawg, according to verse 17, that subsequent part of Isaiah 65 AND chapter 66 would refer to future events following the eventual destruction of THIS earth and its regeneration into the new, upon which New Jerusalem will be brought from heaven for its everlasting relocation, AND where the Godhead will reign with all of the redeemed.
Your comments so far have not at all been sufficient to validate your claim of 20 years of SDA membership OR of ever having been a pastor there!
Why would I believe what I use to believe while an SDA? Why are you looking for validation that I was a member? I don't embrace their teachings any longer so naturally I would have a "different" view.
You can't wiggle out of the context of Isaiah 65 and 66 which is that people are dying and the Levitical priesthood is reinstituted and therefore animals are being sacrificed.
It's either speaking of Heaven and people dying there or it's prophetically relevant for Israel. No other way...
"Why are you looking for validation that I was a member? I don't embrace their teachings any longer so naturally I would have a "different" view"
You would ALSO have a "different" view than we SDAs have if you've never had an inkling as to what we DO believe, and here on the internet we find far too many pretenders to automatically grant complete credibility to a person merely by his or her SAYING something which may or may not be true.
Isaiah 65 and 66 do not mention people occupying heaven.
"You can't wiggle out of the context of Isaiah 65 and 66 which is that people are dying and the Levitical priesthood is reinstituted and therefore animals are being sacrificed"
Hawg, your interpretation of "the context of Isaiah 65 and 66" is severely lacking in the comprehension of straight testimony, as presented AT THE END of chapter 66:
22-For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain (continued)
(from last post) 23-And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD. 24-And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.
Hawgdawgrain, in consideration of these verses, exactly how many carcasses of the wicked are or soon will be visible to the people of God, as they go forth to view them (ALSO notice that they are NOT to be "forever writhing in agony, grief, misery and pain, in hell)?
"I choose a local context because there will be no dying in the Kingdom"
Look back to when I posted about that, Hawg, and you'll see that the BABY actually does NOT literally die at age 100, but advances into the next stage of life ABOVE babyhood, i.e., toddler, as those first 100 years which have passed only signify the BEGINNING of eternal life for the baby, as for anybody else.
"Never again will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not live out his years; he who dies at a hundred will be thought a mere youth; he who fails to reach a hundred will be considered accursed." Is 65:20
It talks about people not reaching 100 being considered accursed. Those that DIE at 100 will be considered a mere youth.
People are reading these posts jkw733. Your view on this verse is shameful.
"People are reading these posts jkw733. Your view on this verse is shameful."
I'm not a bit ashamed of my comments to you, Hawg; I called it as I read it from the KJV, and you're doing whatever you did due to your own ignorance or unwillingness to see the truth as it stands.
""New heaven and earth" ... Its most probable meaning is the return of the Jews from Babylonian captivity"
Nice try, Hawg, but verse 25 completely rebuts your supposition, when you consider the natural enmity STILL between the various wild and domesticated animals mentioned:
Isa. 65:25-"The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD."
"The Sabbath is not eternal because we know it was "made for man." "
Your statement is correct ONLY if man was also never intended to be eternal, either; otherwise BOTH would be eternal, as the Bible already states about the Sabbath.
First, I am a Seventh-Day Adventist. I understand that some interpret this video as slanderous towards Adventists. However, this video stemmed from my own experience growing up Adventists, where we could play games on the Sabbath like tag as long as we made it "Bible tag". I poke fun at this because I personally feel like it is very silly and that the Sabbath has become more about the restrictions and not about the liberation that comes with resting in God.
this sucks.. my mom an stepdad is adventist. that sucks even more.... fucking religon crap... lucky me. I have my one house now so I don`t have tho hear more adventist crap...
Again The idea to worship is whats being talked about a day set aside... Sunday Keepers value it ( or are supposed to valus it as the SDA's do... So whats the big deal? Id SDA's want to keep all 10 of the commandments and others only nine? If Jesus said He is the Lord of the Sabbath- Then worship on the Saturday Sabbath- If you like SUnday- then that's where your allegence is...
If I write my spouses love on my heart doesnt that mean I have to live according to the commnds of marriage?Or do I just "feel the love" and who cares what I do?I would think the love of Christ makes it a blessing and pleasure to spend the day that celibrates creation and God on Saturday, why take a Roman Catholc Day of worship? Do they do anything right? I mean God bless the people- but the religion is steeped in apostasy. Love enables perfect obedience but it feels awesome- even though its law
Loving people is the true test of loyalty and loving God with all your heart and soul and might- and one cant please God in anything without love- however faith without works is dead. Just like love without actions is useless. Assuming we all love one another- then assuming we want to know all truth- Sabbath is a test of loyalty. Obedience is ever stressed in the bible. We live by grace- but not cheap grace. We see the law and it helps point out sin. then we have knowlegde of it- and we change.
Are Gentiles not able to read the word of God? Did God not write his law on the hearts of men? You say that the law is the ministry of death, but you really only mean that the 4th commandment is the ministry of death, since you still firmly believe that we should keep the other nine. You're running in circles again, buddy.
Your mistake lies in your separating of the law. The distinction SDA's make between the Law of God (moral) and the Law of Moses (ceremonial) is superficial and not supported by the Scriptures. "The law" embraces "the whole law" or the Torah. Gal. 3:10; 5:3.
Either the whole law has been fulfilled by Christ or it stands as a whole to be kept. You believe it HAS NOT been fulfilled and I do.
The moral compass I follow is driven by the Holy Spirit and based upon the teachings of Jesus.
And your mistake is with the meaning of the word "fulfilled". Jesus said that He did not come to abolish the law, but that it exactly what you think that He did. Even if you don't know the definition of the word "fulfilled", you can see from Jesus's own words that it does NOT mean "abolished". You have to run through this whole production of "abolishing" the law and then "reaffirming" parts of it, just so you can try to do away with one commandment and keep the other nine.
Then I guess Paul was wrong...you can take it up with him.
"...by ABOLISHING in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace." Ephesians 2:15
Jesus' fulfillment statement also said that heaven and earth would pass away before any part of the law would change, but you consistently ignore that fact.
So I guess Jesus was wrong when he said that the law would not change? None of your twisted answers ever surprise me.
What, exactly, do you think Jesus meant when he said that He did not come to abolish the law? You obviously believe that He did, in fact, abolish the law.
Eph 2:15 (King James) Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Notice, it is the law of commandments contained in ordinances. The 10 Commandments and moral/health laws were never ordinances. The ceremonial/sacrificial and civil laws were.
Jesus is saying that no part of the LAW can be ignored, not one cross of the T or dot of the I, even if heaven and earth pass "UNTIL ALL IS FULFILLED".
Has Jesus fulfilled the law or not? If you believe He "has not" fulfilled it then you are obligated to keep ALL of it. You can't just pick 10 of the 613 commandments to try and obey. If you believe He "has" fulfilled the law, then He stands as your substitute.
Hawg, can you read? Do you need glasses? The verse doesn't say "even if heaven and earth pass away"... the verse SPECIFICALLY says "until heaven and earth disappear" not the smallest part of the law will change. Neither heaven nor earth have disappeared. We don't keep the law in order to be saved. We keep the law because we hav accepted Christ's gift of salvation, and we want to try to live our lives like His.
I can read and I can also see "CONTEXT" when it's staring me in the face.
Why do you ignore "UNTIL all is fulfilled"? Jesus is clearly teaching that there was going to be a time when the law (Torah) was going to find its fulfillment and no longer remain in force. Did Jesus fulfill the Torah?
Also, you DON'T keep the law. Why claim something you're not doing? Everytime the word "law" is used in Matthew, it is used for the "whole" Old Covenant, the Torah. And you claim to keep this?
I am not ignoring the "until all is fulfilled" phrase, but, using the CONTEXT, Jesus is clearly saying that the law is not going to change. If Jesus put two conditions on when the law would change (if it changed at all), and one of the conditions has clearly not yet been met (heaven and earth passing away), then you can conclude that the law has not changed. Jesus doesn't lie. If the law has changed, then Jesus' statement would be wrong. You seem to have a tough time with what law he speaks of.
The logical conclusion to your viewpoint then is that you are left with the entire Torah, the whole law. Every time the word "law" is used in the book of Matthew, it is ALWAYS used for the whole old covenant or for some portion of the old covenant other than the 10Commandments.
Can't you see your conundrum? Do you keep all 613 commandments of the law? Since you believe it has not been fulfilled, then you should observe it all. If the law has not changed, then you must keep it all.
How on earth do you know how the word LAW is used? Who made you the authority about which law Jesus was speaking of? In that very passage, Jesus specifically says "commandments", and I take him at his word. The logical conclusion to your viewpoint is that Jesus was wrong. I DO believe that Jesus is the fulfillment of the law, but that doesn't mean that the law ends. He has written the law on our hearts. What part of "commandments" don't you understand?
Have you ever studied God's word beyond the proof-texting technique that SDA's employ?
Do a study on how the word "law" is used in the book of Matthew.
All I'm doing as a Bible student is letting the word speak for itself. Would you like for me to share each verse in Matthew where the word "law" is used or would you care to dig into it yourself?
If you believe the law still remains in force for you, then by all means commence in the keeping of all 613 commandments.
I don't know the proof texting technique that you speak of. I just go by what the bible says. Unlike you. In Matthew 5, Jesus is SPECIFICALLY saying that some law will not changed until heaven and earth pass away. You aren't even trying to argue about which law He was speaking of. You simply don't believe that He was correct. THAT is where we differ, my friend.
You should know the proof-texting method because it's the method your church uses and the one you have employed throughout this debate.
Have you checked the other uses of the word "law" in the gospel of Matthew? That "law" in Matthew 5:17-20 that you say is still in effect is the Torah. I'm just curious why you don't keep all of the Torah?
If going by what the bible says if proof texting, then I'm all for it.
I don't take the Matthew 5 passage out of context. Why do you discount that passage entirely? It doesn't fit into your views, so you just act like those words aren't there? That's really smart.
I can clearly see that you have no understanding of damages proof-texting.
Here's an example: Paul told the women in Corinth to not cut their hair. Do you believe that women who cut their hair are sinners? It says it right there in the Bible! I've just used a proof text!
Matthew 5 contains the "whole law". Therefore the "whole law" is either in force or has been fulfilled by Christ. I choose the latter. You are bound by the former and are required to keep the "whole law", not just the 10.
Then you think that Jesus was wrong. He wasn't just talking in Matt 5 to be talking. He was actually saying something. Unlike you, I believe that words have meaning. The passage doesn't fit with your views, so you discredit it altogether. You don't understand the damages of picking and choosing texts in order to try to get the bible to say what you want it to say. The fact is that Jesus said that a law would not change, and you believe He was wrong.
Has Jesus fulfilled the law? In your rendering of the text, He has not. You are therefore bound to the entire law. You can't remove once punctuation mark from the entire law.
If you're serious about the law still remaining in force for you, then I feel a visit from the humane society is in your future.
Jesus is the fulfillment of the law. He said so Himself. But the fact that the law has a fulfillment doesn't mean that the law ended. How do you figure that ending the law is any different than destroying the law, which Jesus specifically said that He was not going to do?
Jesus specifically said "commandments". That is the original law that HE gave. All of the other 600 and whatever laws were given because the Israelites didn't know how to keep the 10.
"Moses said, Honor thy father and thy mother" Mark 7:10(Fifth Commandment in the 10C's)
"Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?" John 7:19(Commandment #6 is called the law of Moses)
Fulfilled, not ended or destroyed. Fulfilled, because the law is an expression of God's character, and Jesus was the embodiment of that character.
Out of that whole section, you only see the word "fulfilled". You ignore the rest of the passage. Jesus specifically said that heaven and earth would pass away before any part of the law changed. Which law was he speaking of? You try to act like those words aren't even there.
It's funny because it's true.
Daniel13324 1 month ago
Hilarious!
gamalalexander 4 months ago
I wish I could buy these!!
giannadangeloni 8 months ago
hahah what the heck is this lol Trading cards haha but it could actually be very educational... hmm
stefysjg 9 months ago
Go to Google website & search for " Adventist Truth about Sabbath as the Seal of God."
wassuptoday 11 months ago
I think it's safe to say that people won't take this literally and that the Sabbath really isn't a burden lol.
IIIKrazyKiDDIII 1 year ago
Baptism stats lol
IIIKrazyKiDDIII 1 year ago
HAHA! my friend was like "I WANT HAYSTACKS WITH MY WHAM!!!"
darkhalo153 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
fuck u gentils
muhamedOazmehFatath 1 year ago
this is such a dumb vision on sabbath
certosify 1 year ago
this is so hilarious
scottyhamptonsworld 2 years ago
i made some cards once after seeing this video. my friends thought it was awesome, but we got too competitive.
MalkahEster 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
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Remember leaders of different Christian sects, the will of God is undivided Christianity. Give up your churches, no more Catholic, Protestants, Adventist, JW etc. If you think that I am wrong then prove that you are right. Ive asked the Lord for the two simultaneous explosion of volcano in the U.S. within this month of December, pray that it wouldnt happen, if despite of your prayer it does happen, then know that God is with me therefore you have to listen to me.
.
conceil8 2 years ago
Not if you turn the light on before Sabbath :)
I'm glad this is on - I've been searching for it for ages. Very funny! Ha ha ha!!
granarybap 2 years ago
OMG! The light is on! Sabbath Breakers!
wintersdemise 2 years ago
Am I the only one that sees the blasphemy here? First off, the video portrays the Holy Sabbath as a burden and boring to keep. It mocks all we stand for. It takes the focus off of God. Think I am being too critical or extreme? You very life will be compromised very soon. All will be forced to make a decision. Our faith and doctrines are holy and should be honored for they uphold the Character of God. It is not to be mocked- Galatians 6:7-8. I can't chill out. My life depends on my focus on God.
DigitalPraise7 2 years ago
I can kind of see what your saying in that certain things can take away focus on God however im sure God dont expect people especially children to sit back do nothing on the sabbath or read the Bible and pray ALL day continual 12 hours within the sabbath or even sleep the sabbath away just to pass the time away.
We are to make the sabbath a delight for it isnt cumbersome and if anything is Biblical and educational for children like cards, then i personally cannot see harm in it thats just me.
AdventistSoljah 2 years ago
@DigitalPraise7 people like you with your attitude are the reason people like me acted the same way when they were kids. the reason it's funny is because it is true! maybe it shouldn't be, but it is.
theewtgy 2 years ago
I see nothing funny about negating the Holiness of the Sabbath. But it is true as EGW foretold. The day would come when many Adventists downplay the importance of the Holy Sabbath.
DigitalPraise7 2 years ago
I LOVE the Sabbath. it was made for me by god and I would never downplay its importance. EGW also talks about how we should make every effort to make Sabbath a delight for our kids and this "commercial" is pointing out the reality that most adventist homes make Sabbath a burden. "don't do this and that" should be "Let's do this and that" we need to find fun ways to give our kids something to look forward to on the seventh day.
theewtgy 2 years ago 3
@theewtgy amen :)
CHUNIOR05 5 months ago
they should have things to do with their family and God that they cant do on any other day. I still say it's funny
theewtgy 2 years ago
i'm glad it's back. i am aseventh-day-adventist and i must admit it wasa long day as a kid. it's funny to see it. when i was a kid i went to camp ausable in michigan. when we was leaving they gave us sandwhices for the ride3 home. i got a sandwhich and asked someonat kind of sandwhich it was. they said wham. i said no thanks i don't eat pork so i threw it out the window. i never heard o wham. i'd heard of cedar lake choplets but not wham. lol
doedeedum 2 years ago 5
@doedeedum lol! I went to the same camp as a kid! they told me that wham comes from a whog. lol. I would have loved to trade those cards when i was a kid. somethin to do on the sabbath
theewtgy 2 years ago
i hadn't watched it lately. i had to laugh at the cruncyness of the wham. CHRUNCH, CRUNCH, CRUNCH.
doedeedum 2 years ago
"Every species of animal which God had created were preserved in the ark. The confused species which God did not create, which were the result of amalgamation, were destroyed by the flood. Since the flood there has been amalgamation of man and beast, as may be seen in the almost endless varieties of species of animals, and in certain races of men." Ellen G. White, Spiritual Gifts, Vol. 3, p. 75
temp445 2 years ago
@temp445 You ought to be careful what you post. I am not an SDA, I don't know what your purpose in writing this was, but taken out of context (which it will be), it really will alienate most people. Once again, I'm not an SDA, I don't even like EGW. But I understand enough about her to know that what is written by her here had a way different meaning to her than it does to people today. whiteestate[dot]org/issues/amalg.html
elankeisler 1 year ago
LOL@" I don't know..did he have prophetic visions?" I love it!
IntellectualRebel 2 years ago
this is very sick
paperfreeck 2 years ago
you gotta get more of these commercials. this should actually be a product. lol!
theewtgy 2 years ago
that's a crack up mate :) u hit the nail on the head for a lot of homes / kids i've seen. and why are they like that? cos they don't know Jesus well enuf to see the sabbath as a blessing. And to all you mockers - all good things come from God who causes the rain to fall on the just AND the unjust alike. look it up! He loves u 2!
jonahswamdeep 2 years ago
This just gets funnier and funnier. It's no longer about the video. It's about everyone's religious hangups now. Thank you, God that I am no longer tied to these types of "Christians". I am no longer judged by them. Only by You.
NaomiPUC 2 years ago
That was digusting too. Stupid.
nonameKathleen 2 years ago
This video is hilarious! My favorite line is "I don't know... Did he ever have prophetic visions?"
bebe21310 2 years ago 5
lol..i was rofl..
IT COMES W/ WHAM!!!! =D
toribear06 2 years ago
Matrix, Isaw your profile - I think your a phony. REAL SDAs don't have potty mouths.
I see you have worldly music & no SDA praise music.
Again, your a phony & far from real !
cmammlj 2 years ago
lets say a am an sda. i did get bautized, its just that im explore my options in. so how bout you stop trying to learn about me. who the hell looks at other peoples profiles to judge them? DONT JUDGE ME. YOOU HAVE NO RIGHT WHATSOEVER. keep judgin', your day also awaits you
matrixener 2 years ago
Matrix, Good people don't go to heaven, only people who accept Jesus as their Lord & Savior into their lives.
Look how you represent yourself as a SDA. Your gonna burn like a roasted chicken but forever.
Repent ! - turn to Jesus or you'll end up being Satan's next so-called guest in hell - Satan accepts, welcomes & loves people with Potty mouths like yourself.
cmammlj 2 years ago
Matrix, Your playing w/fire. It is a sin to cuss. Your gonna learn the hard way when you face Jesus & regret using the bible as an excuse to cuss. If you take God's name in vain on purpose, thats breaking God's 3rd Commandment, meaningt its a sin. -- Repent !
cmammlj 2 years ago
is the whole sda church fanatical about religion, or is it just you? my judgement day awaits me. i know im a good person and i need not explain what i do to you. god knows what i do. thanks for understanding (thats me being sarcastic)
matrixener 2 years ago
Good point man. However, not all Adventists are jerks. I think it's a positive thing that you are aware of your actions, and take responsibility for them. I also agree that you are not necessarily obligated to explain yourself to humans, although it can be helpful at times. The main thing for all of us is to just be accountable to God.
tdq11 2 years ago
Wow Matrixener. That kind of language would have gotten me kicked out of academy so fast I wouldn't have known what hit me! If you are a SDA, as you seem to be since you are so upset, I guess the church has changed a great deal. Is this how it is now?
NaomiPUC 2 years ago
not the church. just me, thats just how i am
matrixener 2 years ago
Where are the SDA trading cards of:
*Sunday worship = Mark of the Beast
*Willie Boy Miller confessing his false prediction
*Jesus is Archangel Michael
*Satan bearing our sins like EGW said
*No eternal hell torment
*Eating Pork is evil
*Jesus entered the Holy of holies in 1844
*Jack Blanco's SDA 'Clear Word' bible..Oops I mean "book"
SDA is a Cult ! ... Stick w/Jesus & the bible only. Peace - John 14:6, Acts 4:12 & Romans 10:9
cmammlj 2 years ago
OMG! This video is so funny! Reading these comments, though, is really depressing. Same old same old. Nit picking, arrogance, etc. Makes me glad to be a happy ex-adventist.
NaomiPUC 2 years ago
naomi - sorry u r an ex??why? hope u not mad at God for people whjo have hurt u.
jonahswamdeep 2 years ago
Which is it gonna be:
Ellen G. White's writings & Adventism, Or, Jesus & the bible only ?
Can't have both - peace.
cmammlj 2 years ago
actually u can have both..
if u ever took the time to read he writings she says she is a lesser light pointing to a greater light which is the bible. you arent supposed to replace the bible w/ her writings which is a problem most adventists have. but u can have both
toribear06 2 years ago
She said she was a lesser light. She was a fraud plain and simple lol.
holysaturnius 2 years ago
toribear, it is no problem with us Adventist. Ellen White said that she was a lesser light than the Bible. In all her writings she ALWAYS pointed to the Bible. We know Ellen White was a great lady, but we also know nothing can compare to God's holy Word, the Bible. It takes first place EVERY time.
Lulu4Him 2 years ago
I think that this video is frickin hilarious. And I am proud to be called a Seventh-Day Adventist. But also a Christian. If you don't believe in something, let it alone, no need to bash people!
arimom2 2 years ago 2
right on - this video is a crack up and shows that we can have a laugh at ourselves. no need to bash anyone - Jesus didn't, even when a soldier cut off one of his mate's ears. that would make me wanna throw a few punches!! keep the faith.
jonahswamdeep 2 years ago
jonah, it was Peter who cut off the ear of one of the soldiers.
Lulu4Him 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Where are the SDA trading cards of:
*Sunday worship = Mark of the Beast
*Willie Boy Miller confessing his false prediction
*Jesus is Archangel Michael
*Satan bearing our sins like EGW said
*No eternal hell torment
*Eating Pork is evil
*Jesus entered the Holy of holies in 1844
*Jack Blanco's SDA 'Clear Word' bible..Oops I mean "book"
SDA is a Cult ! ... Stick w/Jesus & the bible only. Peace - John 14:6, Acts 4:12 & Romans 10:9
cmammlj 2 years ago
you took the time to write that? ignant ass motherfucker
matrixener 2 years ago
Matrix, I see your on your way to eternal hell torment. Jesus will Not allow people w/Potty mouths into His kingdom. ---- Repent ! - turn to Jesus or face Him as your Judge.
cmammlj 2 years ago
your ridiculous, i believe in god and im an sda. but im very lenient one. so dont judge me. you have no say where i'm goin, only god does
matrixener 2 years ago
Matrix, Your under estimating Jesus thinking He's gonna allow you into His kingdom when you cuss. News Flash ! - Cussing is a sin & your SDA self just committed a sin here on this blog.
Also, Jesus has Zero talorence for folks w/Potty mouths.
Don't underestimate the Lord & think He winks at sin - He doesn't.
Repent !
cmammlj 2 years ago
i will confront the lord when the time comes. but cursing for me is not a sin. no where in the bible does it mention curse words being a sin. that something society/man created. cursing are words with with emotion. there part of the dictionary. so god help me, i believe god doesnt mind me using curse words when im mad
matrixener 2 years ago
hello
cmammlj 2 years ago
aint no degree of sin - read what God hates in the OT - and it doesnt change one bit to today. peter swore and Jesus forgave him didnt he???
jonahswamdeep 2 years ago
matrixener... God bless you!! i was like u before... just let Jesus act in your life and you'll see the difference!! God bless you and you're a child of God ok?? tc...
ispyonu20 2 years ago
SneekyTrojan. Nope ! - I don't believe in speaking in toungues, and I don't believe in E.G. White's writings, there false.
The only book I need & believe in is the bible.
Jesus is the way, Not Adventism - John 14:6.
cmammlj 2 years ago
i believe that 100%
I'm a Christian 1st and foremost, Protestant 2nd, and Adventist third. But what you're saying about adventists is not entirely true. Truth mixed with lies. e.g... eating pork isn't evil, or mcdonalds, neither is drinking, neither is smoking, but all three are unhealthy if you do it all the time do you not agree? so why keep putting in your mouth? If hell is eternal, God is not just, think about it.
sneekytrojan 2 years ago
Sneeky, What does food have to do with everything else I wrote ?
I disagree, your Not a Christian because you hold bold onto the Sabbath & believe that Sunday worship is the Mark of the Beast, meaning Adventist will be the only ones 'saved' because they kept the "loyalist test" of Sabbath keepping.
Jesus said in John 14:6 He's the only way, not Sabbath keeping.
I chose Jesus & hold bold on Him only.
cmammlj 2 years ago
Adventist All Star Trading Cards is now an app on Facebook! OOO wow...
nalogirl93 2 years ago
What? Why didn't any invite me?
flhospchurch 2 years ago
Comment removed
hopjam11 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Where are the SDA trading cards of:
*Sunday worship = Mark of the Beast
*Willie Boy Miller confessing his false prediction
*Jesus is Archangel Michael
*Satan bearing our sins like EGW said
*No eternal hell torment
*Eating Pork is evil
*Jesus came in 1844 entering the Holy of holies
*Jack Blanco's SDA 'Clear Word' bible..Oops I mean "book".
SDA is a Cult! ... Stick w/Jesus & the bible only. Peace - John 14:6, Acts 4:12 & Romans 10:9
cmammlj 3 years ago
LOL! You're so funny!!!!
ptwhite2003 3 years ago
lemme guess you probably believe in speaking in toungues.
sneekytrojan 2 years ago
hello
cmammlj 2 years ago
; ) i wish i had some trading cards...
like a rookie jones and waggoner card...
and the first and fake first missionary to europe hologram...
plus with modern day allstars like pipim, israel ramos, standishes vs ford and sequira and alden thompson...
either way its hilarious! good take florida hospital good take!
blackhawkcourt 3 years ago
jkw733: "Isaiah 65 and 66 do not mention people occupying heaven."
Then who is keeping your sabbath and new moon festivals that are mentioned in Isaiah 66:22,23?
Hawgdawgrain 3 years ago
"Then who is keeping your sabbath and new moon festivals that are mentioned in Isaiah 66:22,23?"
Anybody who has TRULY been an SDA pastor OR member wouldn't even need to ask such a question.
jkw733 3 years ago
I have been both so would you please answer?
You said, "Isaiah 65 and 66 do not mention people occupying heaven."
Is this your belief? No one occupying Heaven in Isaiah 65 and 66? Who is keeping your sabbath and new moon festivals that are mentioned in Isaiah 66:22,23?
You would have us believe the Sabbath is in Heaven and that Isaiah 66:22,23 is proof of such and yet you say no one is occupying Heaven in Isaiah 65 and 66...
Huh?
Hawgdawgrain 3 years ago
"yet you say no one is occupying Heaven in Isaiah 65 and 66... Huh?"
Hawg, these questions validate that you have NO CLUE about SDA beliefs and teachings!
When Isa. 65 and 66 point to a time AFTER God has made the new heavens and the new earth, WE undertsand that all of the redeemed will by then be dwelling for eternity UPON THE NEW EARTH, with heaven merely being a temporary home during the millennium.
So now you FINALLY know what ALL SDA PASTORS have learned in Theology 101, or even sooner!
jkw733 3 years ago
Here's some SDA 101 for you, stuff I learned when taking my first Revelation Seminar 20 years ago.
The term "Heaven" corresponds to the New Jerusalem which SDA's teach will come down and land here on earth after the Millennium. Your comment that "Heaven" is a temporary home is contradictory to the church's teaching. The New Jerusalem will reside here on earth according to SDA theology.
Will people be occupying the New Jerusalem? Will they be a part of the new earth?
C'mon...
Hawgdawgrain 3 years ago
"The New Jerusalem will reside here on earth according to SDA theology.
Will people be occupying the New Jerusalem? Will they be a part of the new earth?
C'mon..."
Yes, and Yes.
According to John 14:1-3, New Jerusalem is presently under construction, and is where Christ promises to take us to reside with Him, upon His Second Coming. A thousand years later, New Jerusalem will be brought to earth, where following the Final Judgment and destruction of the wicked, it will permanently settle.
jkw733 3 years ago
Alright, then they will be keeping the Sabbath, the Levitical Priesthood will be reinstituted, and people will die at 100 years old...if you care about context.
Again, my experience in Heaven will be a Rev. 21:1-4 experience, not an Isaiah 65 and 66 experience.
It's really not that difficult friend. You just have to decide whether or not you're going to leave the proof-texting behind and embrace a contextual integrity of God's word.
SDA's have majored on proof-texting. Bad idea...
Hawgdawgrain 3 years ago
Hawg, speaking of CONTEXT, the message to Isaiah was probably given in those terms in order to help HIM better understand it in relation to HIS life and times, rather than to completely be taken literally today.
Is not JESUS presently, at least to a certain extent, performing the duties formerly undertaken by the Levites, in His ministry in heaven?
jkw733 3 years ago
"...rather than to completely be taken literally today." Then we can put to rest Isaiah 66:22,23 as providing any "literal" proof as to keeping the Sabbath in Heaven.
As per your second point, are we now transitioning to discussing the IJ? I'd love to...
Hawgdawgrain 3 years ago
Hawg, you're free to do whatever you like about Isaiah 65 and 66, and so am I. As for the IJ, all I need to know pertaining to its validity is Christ's words of Rev. 22:11 and 12, since He's said it all right there, having AT THAT TIME, immediately prior to leaving heaven and coming back here, already determined the saved from the lost, and so stated it to be the case.
jkw733 3 years ago
No, we are not free to do what we please with God's word. You couldn't be more wrong.
We must submit to it...all of it. Contextually...
You can't proof text your way through in your journey. Your treatment of Isaiah 66:22,23 is proof that the SDA's "collection" of texts are not what they think they are.
It dangerous what SDA's have done to God's holy word and your statement that we are free to do whatever we want with it is over the top.
Hawgdawgrain 3 years ago
"your statement that we are free to do whatever we want with it is over the top"
What I mean is that if you want to accept it as you infer it to be, then do so, and I'll do likewise; we're obviously on different pages regarding it, and it's up to the Holy Spirit to bring about any and all necessary conviction either way.
jkw733 3 years ago
Actually that may not be the case. You would be surprised.
bsmsupercal 2 years ago
What are you referring to, that "may not be the case"?
jkw733 2 years ago
i find this video stupid and offensive who are u to slander someone elses denomination are u holy, wat gives u the right to slander others
axel27ldt 3 years ago
I wish I had these when I was a young SDA...lol
kryogenikz 3 years ago
It would be kool to have such cards, like that Iraqi deck by US mil
mariachizg 3 years ago
So what is the point of this video... I don't think I get it. lol
We should rest from our own works and try to spend the Sabbath as we'd spend our time in Heaven- without arguments and competition and anything hindering our learning about Jesus.
WorldsFinalEvents 3 years ago
I find it interesting that I am somehow "doing it wrong" when I am simply obeying and doing my best to keep Gods Law. I am aware that Grace is covering me to make me acceptable and that it isnt by works. The law points out sin- When we break it- Jesus blood covers it- but that doesn't mean I should try to break it. THATS PAUL AND JESUS WORDS.
AudioStar7 3 years ago 2
Amen AudioStar7.
sleanos 3 years ago
One thing we all need to be careful of is that we don't worship the Sabbath as much as the Lord of the Sabbath--Jesus Christ. If we fall into the trap of defending SDA's, Sabbath etc... we end up neglecting "the more important matters of the law--justice, mercy and faithfulness."
(Matthew 23:23)
flhospchurch 3 years ago
You can see from the comments on this video that this video attracts "burned" adventists, who left the church because of the Sabbath. Unfortunately, those people use this video as a springboard to slander SDAs, and perhaps more unfortunately, SDAs use it as an opportunity to further slam and argue with these people instead of realizing that SDAs aren't perfect either and accept each other as brothers and sisters in Christ.
flhospchurch 3 years ago
For clarification purposes, I'm a "former" and had nothing but wonderful experiences in the church as a Pastor for 16 years.
I left because of the New Covenant. The Sabbath being the "test of loyalty" was one of many teaching errors that buffered my decision. The Investigative Judgment, Ellen White, and some of the various peripheral issues were also reasons.
My departure from the church was the simple result of my deepening relationship with Christ. Loved the people but not the teachings.
Hawgdawgrain 3 years ago
Hawg, what is it about the New Covenant that caused you to give up being SDA? Since it became effective at the instant of Jesus' death on the cross, it can't be that you're convicted of "Sunday sacredness" due to its inception, can it? By the time Jesus was resurrected from the tomb on Sunday, according to Gal. 3:15 it was far too late to bring about any changes in "covenental" practices.
jkw733 3 years ago
The process took several years of study and was a series of understandings from Scripture.
The Old/Mosaic Covenant is clearly defined in Scripture as being the 10C's (Deut. 4:13; 9:9,11: I Kings 8:21; Heb 9:4...many more)
Paul says we are to cast of the covenant from Sinai. (Gal 4:21-31)
The New Covenant "rest" is entered into "TODAY" (Heb. 4).
I do not believe Sunday is sacred any more than Wednesday. The New Covenant Sabbath is a Person, not a day.
Hawgdawgrain 3 years ago
"The New Covenant Sabbath is a Person, not a day."
Hawg, if that is fact, since the NC's inception AT THE CROSS, and Jesus having been on earth with the apostles for nearly six weeks AFTER His resurrection, please tell us how it is that routine weekly Sabbaths were being observed by both Jews and Gentiles, much of the time together, for MANY YEARS thereafter? Or that JOHN, SIXTY YEARS LATER, was STILL referring to the Lord's day as something that hadn't gone anywhere during HIS ENTIRE LIFESPAN?
jkw733 3 years ago
Hebrews 4 speaks of a "sabbath-like" (sabbatismos) rest that is entered into "Today". That is the "Sabbath-rest" that "remains...for the people of God". Heb 4:9.
Jesus is the Jubilee as evidenced in Luke 4. I've showed that here before but will re-post it if you'd like.
Paul kept a feast day (Acts 18:21) after the resurrection. Does that mean we should keep those?
Hawgdawgrain 3 years ago
"a "sabbath-like" (sabbatismos) rest that is entered into "Today" " is INDEED the very same Sabbath DAY "made for MAN (not J-E-W!) that Christ established at Creation. This Sabbath rest protects people from burnout as they go about their occupational duties and cares of the world during the rest of the week.
jkw733 3 years ago
You need to read the entire chapter of Hebrews 4. You're not getting its full meaning. Even SDA scholars admit that Hebrews 4 is not the place to go to defend "sabbath-keeping". It is not describing the "Seventh-day" sabbath.
If the author of Hebrews wanted to "sabbath day" he would have used the word for Sabbath. He doesn't do that.
He doesn't use "Sabbaton" which is the Greek for Sabbath, he uses "sabbatismos" which is a Sabbath-like rest. That rest is available in a Person, not a day.
Hawgdawgrain 3 years ago
"Hebrews 4 is not the place to go to defend "sabbath-keeping" "
Sabbath keeping neither NEEDS nor REQUIRES defense. Christians, other than those in name only, are allowing Jesus Christ to RULE their lives as their LORD, or "Boss", correct?
Once HE has control, HE performs IN AND WITH US the very same type of loving service and obedience to His Father that He has ALWAYS done as His routine; we are merely HIS earthly bodies used for HIS works.
For some strange reason HE always kept the Sabbath!
jkw733 3 years ago
Sabbath-keeping is fine if someone would like to do that. I have no issue with it. My issue is how Sabbatarians (mainly SDA's) make it the test of loyalty and the final test for the true people of God.
That is not Biblical and is divisive to the body of Christ.
Jesus kept the feast days as well. Should we keep those? He was also circumcized. Should all males be circumcized as well?
Hawgdawgrain 3 years ago
"My issue is how Sabbatarians (mainly SDA's) make it the test of loyalty and the final test for the true people of God"
God had a minor issue with two people once. He told them not to go near or touch a certain tree nor partake of its fruit. How bad can things go by simply picking and eating fruit; it's ONLY nourishment?
THEIR disloyalty was LESS than the observance of God's only holy day of ANY week, EVER. Because of THAT, where are we now?
God says "Do it", so "Do it" and be done with it!
jkw733 3 years ago
So show us that Sabbath observance is the test of loyalty to God. It appears once from Romans to Revelation, which is the guide for Christian living for the early believers. Paul mentions the day once and he tells us not to judge one another with regards to it.
Show us from Scripture that the Sabbath is the Seal of God. I'll show you that the Seal of God is the Holy Spirit (Eph 1:13)
God has given many commands and many of them are no longer binding.
Hawgdawgrain 3 years ago
If you want to know about a "test of loyalty" to God, just keep following after MAN for the rest of your life, and in the Judgment it'll be completely clear to you, whatever it might be, just before you hit the fire.
jkw733 3 years ago
When there's a lack of Scriptural proof for one's position, damning the other person to hell typically adds a balm of security to one's quickly shattering paradigm.
Yours is simply another example of a person unwilling to move away from their cherished traditions of men instead of bowing at the feet of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Hawgdawgrain 3 years ago
Also, the New Covenant is the current binding covenant. The Old Covenant's "ministry of death engraved on tablets of stone" II Cor 3:7, is "obsolete" (Heb 8:13), the New has been built on "better promises" (Heb 8:6).
Hawgdawgrain 3 years ago
Hawg, just WHAT is contained within the New Covenant? GOD's NEVER-CHANGING LAWS, firmly imprinted upon the hearts and minds of His believers!
The "better promises" are chiefly HIS; once WE "promise" to accept HIM, He promises to PUT those laws INTO us, as compared to the Israelites' promises of the Old Covenant recorded in Exodus 19; "all that the Lord speaketh, we will do" --- and then went "Oops!", more or less, when they realized that their commitments didn't match their desires.
jkw733 3 years ago
And THEN, better yet, Christ indwells us by the presence of His Holy Spirit and thereby provides us with the POWER OF GOD to do ANYTHING THAT HE WOULD DO in being FULLY OBEDIENT to the wishes of His Father, REGARDLESS of the requirement! PRAISE HIS HOLY NAME FOR THIS!
jkw733 3 years ago
Yes, we should definitely obey our Father in Heaven! Amen to that too brother!
However, we are not under the Torah/Mosaic/Old Covenant any longer. The Law was "added" "until" the "Seed" (Gal 3:19). We are no longer under the schoolmaster but are instead under Christ (Gal 3:24,25).
The "ministry of death engraved on tablets of stone" has no glory when compared to the "ministry of the Spirit"...(II Cor 3:7-18)
Hawgdawgrain 3 years ago
What are those "NEVER-CHANGING" laws? The Sabbath? If that's the case then it's eternal...right?
The Sabbath is not eternal because we know it was "made for man". It didn not exist before man so we know it's not a part of God's eternal character. God has no need to rest and Jesus said in John 5:17 that God is working to this very day.
God's commandments for His people have fluctuated through each of His covenants with us. Is circumcision still a binding command? No...so there is change.
Hawgdawgrain 3 years ago
"The Sabbath? If that's the case then it's eternal...right?"
RIGHT, according to Isa. 66:23!
It would appear that since JESUS customarily observed the weekly Sabbaths, NOT simply "because He was a Jew", but BECAUSE HE WAS ALL ABOUT LOVE FOR HIS FATHER, which resulted in His unquestioning, unprotesting OBEDIENCE to Him in all things, it wouldn't be a bad idea for you and me to do likewise for the very same reason!
jkw733 3 years ago
To understand Isaiah 66:22,23, you have to read Isaiah 65 and 66, which is the context.
The chapters speak about the Levitical priesthood being reinstituted and the child dying at 100 years old within the same context as New Moons and Sabbath days.
Are those going to be a part of "eternity" as well?
The Sabbatarian is trapped by the context to either admit those things or kick them out of the chapter. You can't keep the Sabbath part and leave the "child dying at 100" alone.
Hawgdawgrain 3 years ago
"The chapters speak about the Levitical priesthood being reinstituted"
Hawg, read Isa. 65:17; I've copied it and MORE here "just for you"!
"For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind."
Please show how these events ever came about in regards to the reinstitution of the Levitical priesthood, or better yet, WHY it should EVER NEED to be reinstituted?
uh-h-h-h ..... Jesus took care of all of those practices, didn't He?
jkw733 3 years ago
Isa. 65:23-They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the LORD, and their offspring with them.
24-And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear.
25-The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.
(Wolf & lamb feed together)
jkw733 3 years ago
With regards to Isiaih 65 and 66, you believe all those things will be in Heaven?
Really? You believe that? You believe people will die at 100 years old?(Is 65:20)
"New heaven and earth" cannot be speaking about the Heaven where God's literal throne exists today. Its most probable meaning is the return of the Jews from Babylonian captivity which was a new era in their existence as a nation.
I'll take that description and you can have your Sabbath, people dying and festivals in Heaven.
Hawgdawgrain 3 years ago
"You believe people will die at 100 years old?(Is 65:20)"
Can't you even READ? And you CLAIM to have been an SDA pastor, and spent 20 years in the church, no doubt as only a pew-warmer? That verse says BABIES will "die" at 100 years, when they would obviously grow into LITTLE CHILDREN; we're talking ETERNITY here!
If you were TRULY an accredited SDA pastor, that passage about the "New heaven and earth" would be completely clear to you!
jkw733 3 years ago
While I have no doubts about my ability to read, I'm genuinely wondering whether or not you are truly able to see the text. Let me quote it:
"Never again will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not live out his years; HE WHO DIES AT A HUNDRED WILL BE THOUGHT A MERE YOUTH; he who fails to reach a hundred will be considered accursed." Isaiah 65:20
Did you see it? It says "HE WHO DIES", meaning people are dying...understand?
That's your Heaven...
Hawgdawgrain 3 years ago
The KJV has it somewhat different from the quote you gave;
20-There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for THE CHILD shall die an hundred years old; but THE SINNER being an hundred years old shall be accursed.
As for "That's your Heaven...", if you're not interested in heaven, I'm not about to force it on you!
jkw733 3 years ago
The KJV doesn't alter the meaning of the text. It only enforces my position further.
Your attempt to make the Sabbath appear in Heaven also makes "THE CHILD shall die an hundred years old" a part of it as well.
I prefer this:
"He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away." Revelation 21:4
Amen...
Hawgdawgrain 3 years ago
Hawg, according to verse 17, that subsequent part of Isaiah 65 AND chapter 66 would refer to future events following the eventual destruction of THIS earth and its regeneration into the new, upon which New Jerusalem will be brought from heaven for its everlasting relocation, AND where the Godhead will reign with all of the redeemed.
Your comments so far have not at all been sufficient to validate your claim of 20 years of SDA membership OR of ever having been a pastor there!
jkw733 3 years ago
Why would I believe what I use to believe while an SDA? Why are you looking for validation that I was a member? I don't embrace their teachings any longer so naturally I would have a "different" view.
You can't wiggle out of the context of Isaiah 65 and 66 which is that people are dying and the Levitical priesthood is reinstituted and therefore animals are being sacrificed.
It's either speaking of Heaven and people dying there or it's prophetically relevant for Israel. No other way...
Hawgdawgrain 3 years ago
"Why are you looking for validation that I was a member? I don't embrace their teachings any longer so naturally I would have a "different" view"
You would ALSO have a "different" view than we SDAs have if you've never had an inkling as to what we DO believe, and here on the internet we find far too many pretenders to automatically grant complete credibility to a person merely by his or her SAYING something which may or may not be true.
Isaiah 65 and 66 do not mention people occupying heaven.
jkw733 3 years ago
"You can't wiggle out of the context of Isaiah 65 and 66 which is that people are dying and the Levitical priesthood is reinstituted and therefore animals are being sacrificed"
Hawg, your interpretation of "the context of Isaiah 65 and 66" is severely lacking in the comprehension of straight testimony, as presented AT THE END of chapter 66:
22-For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain (continued)
jkw733 3 years ago
(from last post) 23-And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD. 24-And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.
jkw733 3 years ago
Hawgdawgrain, in consideration of these verses, exactly how many carcasses of the wicked are or soon will be visible to the people of God, as they go forth to view them (ALSO notice that they are NOT to be "forever writhing in agony, grief, misery and pain, in hell)?
jkw733 3 years ago
Then please explain the child dying at 100 and the Levitcal priesthood being reinstituted.
You either have those things in Heaven, according to you, or this prophecy has a local context to Israel.
I choose a local context because there will be no dying in the Kingdom.
Hawgdawgrain 3 years ago
"I choose a local context because there will be no dying in the Kingdom"
Look back to when I posted about that, Hawg, and you'll see that the BABY actually does NOT literally die at age 100, but advances into the next stage of life ABOVE babyhood, i.e., toddler, as those first 100 years which have passed only signify the BEGINNING of eternal life for the baby, as for anybody else.
jkw733 3 years ago
Here's your text again. Please read it slowly:
"Never again will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not live out his years; he who dies at a hundred will be thought a mere youth; he who fails to reach a hundred will be considered accursed." Is 65:20
It talks about people not reaching 100 being considered accursed. Those that DIE at 100 will be considered a mere youth.
People are reading these posts jkw733. Your view on this verse is shameful.
Hawgdawgrain 3 years ago
"People are reading these posts jkw733. Your view on this verse is shameful."
I'm not a bit ashamed of my comments to you, Hawg; I called it as I read it from the KJV, and you're doing whatever you did due to your own ignorance or unwillingness to see the truth as it stands.
jkw733 3 years ago
""New heaven and earth" ... Its most probable meaning is the return of the Jews from Babylonian captivity"
Nice try, Hawg, but verse 25 completely rebuts your supposition, when you consider the natural enmity STILL between the various wild and domesticated animals mentioned:
Isa. 65:25-"The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD."
jkw733 3 years ago
"The Sabbath is not eternal because we know it was "made for man." "
Your statement is correct ONLY if man was also never intended to be eternal, either; otherwise BOTH would be eternal, as the Bible already states about the Sabbath.
jkw733 3 years ago
Marriage was given before sin entered the world. Was it meant to be eternal?
Not according to Jesus in Matthew 22:30.
The Bible does not state the Sabbath is eternal. I'm sorry, it's just not there.
Hawgdawgrain 3 years ago
First, I am a Seventh-Day Adventist. I understand that some interpret this video as slanderous towards Adventists. However, this video stemmed from my own experience growing up Adventists, where we could play games on the Sabbath like tag as long as we made it "Bible tag". I poke fun at this because I personally feel like it is very silly and that the Sabbath has become more about the restrictions and not about the liberation that comes with resting in God.
flhospchurch 3 years ago
this sucks.. my mom an stepdad is adventist. that sucks even more.... fucking religon crap... lucky me. I have my one house now so I don`t have tho hear more adventist crap...
vectraB97 3 years ago
Again The idea to worship is whats being talked about a day set aside... Sunday Keepers value it ( or are supposed to valus it as the SDA's do... So whats the big deal? Id SDA's want to keep all 10 of the commandments and others only nine? If Jesus said He is the Lord of the Sabbath- Then worship on the Saturday Sabbath- If you like SUnday- then that's where your allegence is...
But attacking SDA's with this video is sad...
AudioStar7 3 years ago
If I write my spouses love on my heart doesnt that mean I have to live according to the commnds of marriage?Or do I just "feel the love" and who cares what I do?I would think the love of Christ makes it a blessing and pleasure to spend the day that celibrates creation and God on Saturday, why take a Roman Catholc Day of worship? Do they do anything right? I mean God bless the people- but the religion is steeped in apostasy. Love enables perfect obedience but it feels awesome- even though its law
AudioStar7 3 years ago
I have no issue with people wanting to keep Saturday as a day of rest. You can keep Wednesday if you'd like.
The damage is done when SDA's make Saturday-keeping the test of loyalty and the identifying mark of "real" Christians.
It's just simply not Biblical and it's offensive to real Christians who are the hands and feet of Jesus in a hurting world.
BTW...I worship my Savior every day. Is Tuesday a "Roman Catholic Day of worship"?
Hawgdawgrain 3 years ago
Hold on... You are saying that sabbath keeping is not biblical, but you think that worshiping on sunday is? Have you actually read the bible?
garrick242 3 years ago
Loving people is the true test of loyalty and loving God with all your heart and soul and might- and one cant please God in anything without love- however faith without works is dead. Just like love without actions is useless. Assuming we all love one another- then assuming we want to know all truth- Sabbath is a test of loyalty. Obedience is ever stressed in the bible. We live by grace- but not cheap grace. We see the law and it helps point out sin. then we have knowlegde of it- and we change.
AudioStar7 3 years ago
I believe in spiritual formation and obedience. However, I do not believe in keeping the sign of the Old Covenant as a test of loyalty.
Where does Scripture say that the Sabbath is the test of loyalty?
It's the sign of an "obsolete" covenant that Paul calls "the ministry of death engraved on tables of stone."
Hawgdawgrain 3 years ago
And yet you believe that you should keep 90% of that "ministry of death"? That's really consistent, buddy.
garrick242 3 years ago
Would you mind sharing with us where that 10% you adore so much was commanded of the Gentiles?
Hawgdawgrain 3 years ago
Are Gentiles not able to read the word of God? Did God not write his law on the hearts of men? You say that the law is the ministry of death, but you really only mean that the 4th commandment is the ministry of death, since you still firmly believe that we should keep the other nine. You're running in circles again, buddy.
garrick242 3 years ago
Your mistake lies in your separating of the law. The distinction SDA's make between the Law of God (moral) and the Law of Moses (ceremonial) is superficial and not supported by the Scriptures. "The law" embraces "the whole law" or the Torah. Gal. 3:10; 5:3.
Either the whole law has been fulfilled by Christ or it stands as a whole to be kept. You believe it HAS NOT been fulfilled and I do.
The moral compass I follow is driven by the Holy Spirit and based upon the teachings of Jesus.
Hawgdawgrain 3 years ago
And your mistake is with the meaning of the word "fulfilled". Jesus said that He did not come to abolish the law, but that it exactly what you think that He did. Even if you don't know the definition of the word "fulfilled", you can see from Jesus's own words that it does NOT mean "abolished". You have to run through this whole production of "abolishing" the law and then "reaffirming" parts of it, just so you can try to do away with one commandment and keep the other nine.
garrick242 3 years ago
Then I guess Paul was wrong...you can take it up with him.
"...by ABOLISHING in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace." Ephesians 2:15
Hawgdawgrain 3 years ago
If it comes down to either Paul or Jesus being right, my money (and my life) is on Jesus.
garrick242 3 years ago
I had an SDA once tell me that Paul was a "Silver tongued devil."
Your answer doesn't surprise me.
Paul's statement supports Jesus' fulfillment statement in Matthew 5:17-20.
Hawgdawgrain 3 years ago
Jesus' fulfillment statement also said that heaven and earth would pass away before any part of the law would change, but you consistently ignore that fact.
So I guess Jesus was wrong when he said that the law would not change? None of your twisted answers ever surprise me.
What, exactly, do you think Jesus meant when he said that He did not come to abolish the law? You obviously believe that He did, in fact, abolish the law.
garrick242 3 years ago
Eph 2:15 (King James) Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Notice, it is the law of commandments contained in ordinances. The 10 Commandments and moral/health laws were never ordinances. The ceremonial/sacrificial and civil laws were.
sleanos 3 years ago
You'll find that all the annual sabbaths except the weekly 7th day Sabbath were considered ordinances:
Exo 12:43 And the LORD said unto Moses and Aaron, This is the ordinance of the passover: There shall no stranger eat thereof:
sleanos 3 years ago
Jesus is saying that no part of the LAW can be ignored, not one cross of the T or dot of the I, even if heaven and earth pass "UNTIL ALL IS FULFILLED".
Has Jesus fulfilled the law or not? If you believe He "has not" fulfilled it then you are obligated to keep ALL of it. You can't just pick 10 of the 613 commandments to try and obey. If you believe He "has" fulfilled the law, then He stands as your substitute.
What part of "UNTIL" can't you grasp?
Read Galatians 3
Hawgdawgrain 3 years ago
Hawg, can you read? Do you need glasses? The verse doesn't say "even if heaven and earth pass away"... the verse SPECIFICALLY says "until heaven and earth disappear" not the smallest part of the law will change. Neither heaven nor earth have disappeared. We don't keep the law in order to be saved. We keep the law because we hav accepted Christ's gift of salvation, and we want to try to live our lives like His.
garrick242 3 years ago
I can read and I can also see "CONTEXT" when it's staring me in the face.
Why do you ignore "UNTIL all is fulfilled"? Jesus is clearly teaching that there was going to be a time when the law (Torah) was going to find its fulfillment and no longer remain in force. Did Jesus fulfill the Torah?
Also, you DON'T keep the law. Why claim something you're not doing? Everytime the word "law" is used in Matthew, it is used for the "whole" Old Covenant, the Torah. And you claim to keep this?
Hawgdawgrain 3 years ago
I am not ignoring the "until all is fulfilled" phrase, but, using the CONTEXT, Jesus is clearly saying that the law is not going to change. If Jesus put two conditions on when the law would change (if it changed at all), and one of the conditions has clearly not yet been met (heaven and earth passing away), then you can conclude that the law has not changed. Jesus doesn't lie. If the law has changed, then Jesus' statement would be wrong. You seem to have a tough time with what law he speaks of.
garrick242 3 years ago
The logical conclusion to your viewpoint then is that you are left with the entire Torah, the whole law. Every time the word "law" is used in the book of Matthew, it is ALWAYS used for the whole old covenant or for some portion of the old covenant other than the 10Commandments.
Can't you see your conundrum? Do you keep all 613 commandments of the law? Since you believe it has not been fulfilled, then you should observe it all. If the law has not changed, then you must keep it all.
Hawgdawgrain 3 years ago
How on earth do you know how the word LAW is used? Who made you the authority about which law Jesus was speaking of? In that very passage, Jesus specifically says "commandments", and I take him at his word. The logical conclusion to your viewpoint is that Jesus was wrong. I DO believe that Jesus is the fulfillment of the law, but that doesn't mean that the law ends. He has written the law on our hearts. What part of "commandments" don't you understand?
garrick242 3 years ago
Have you ever studied God's word beyond the proof-texting technique that SDA's employ?
Do a study on how the word "law" is used in the book of Matthew.
All I'm doing as a Bible student is letting the word speak for itself. Would you like for me to share each verse in Matthew where the word "law" is used or would you care to dig into it yourself?
If you believe the law still remains in force for you, then by all means commence in the keeping of all 613 commandments.
Hawgdawgrain 3 years ago
I don't know the proof texting technique that you speak of. I just go by what the bible says. Unlike you. In Matthew 5, Jesus is SPECIFICALLY saying that some law will not changed until heaven and earth pass away. You aren't even trying to argue about which law He was speaking of. You simply don't believe that He was correct. THAT is where we differ, my friend.
garrick242 3 years ago
You should know the proof-texting method because it's the method your church uses and the one you have employed throughout this debate.
Have you checked the other uses of the word "law" in the gospel of Matthew? That "law" in Matthew 5:17-20 that you say is still in effect is the Torah. I'm just curious why you don't keep all of the Torah?
Why do you take those passages out of context?
Hawgdawgrain 3 years ago
If going by what the bible says if proof texting, then I'm all for it.
I don't take the Matthew 5 passage out of context. Why do you discount that passage entirely? It doesn't fit into your views, so you just act like those words aren't there? That's really smart.
garrick242 3 years ago
I can clearly see that you have no understanding of damages proof-texting.
Here's an example: Paul told the women in Corinth to not cut their hair. Do you believe that women who cut their hair are sinners? It says it right there in the Bible! I've just used a proof text!
Matthew 5 contains the "whole law". Therefore the "whole law" is either in force or has been fulfilled by Christ. I choose the latter. You are bound by the former and are required to keep the "whole law", not just the 10.
Hawgdawgrain 3 years ago
Then you think that Jesus was wrong. He wasn't just talking in Matt 5 to be talking. He was actually saying something. Unlike you, I believe that words have meaning. The passage doesn't fit with your views, so you discredit it altogether. You don't understand the damages of picking and choosing texts in order to try to get the bible to say what you want it to say. The fact is that Jesus said that a law would not change, and you believe He was wrong.
garrick242 3 years ago
Has Jesus fulfilled the law? In your rendering of the text, He has not. You are therefore bound to the entire law. You can't remove once punctuation mark from the entire law.
If you're serious about the law still remaining in force for you, then I feel a visit from the humane society is in your future.
Hawgdawgrain 3 years ago
Jesus is the fulfillment of the law. He said so Himself. But the fact that the law has a fulfillment doesn't mean that the law ended. How do you figure that ending the law is any different than destroying the law, which Jesus specifically said that He was not going to do?
Jesus specifically said "commandments". That is the original law that HE gave. All of the other 600 and whatever laws were given because the Israelites didn't know how to keep the 10.
garrick242 3 years ago
The law was given by Moses and was 613 commandments and included the 10C's.
"Did not Moses give you the law?" John 7:19
"God's law, which was given by Moses"Neh 10:29
This law Moses gave includes the 10C's:
"Moses said, Honor thy father and thy mother" Mark 7:10(Fifth Commandment in the 10C's)
"Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?" John 7:19(Commandment #6 is called the law of Moses)
ONE law...through Moses...fulfilled.
Hawgdawgrain 3 years ago
Fulfilled, not ended or destroyed. Fulfilled, because the law is an expression of God's character, and Jesus was the embodiment of that character.
Out of that whole section, you only see the word "fulfilled". You ignore the rest of the passage. Jesus specifically said that heaven and earth would pass away before any part of the law changed. Which law was he speaking of? You try to act like those words aren't even there.
garrick242 3 years ago