I am not the most experienced multi pitch climber.. but I would prefer to be belayed (or to belay) from the anchor rather from my harness... the physics are simple. Harness: about 14kN combined, Bolt: about 30kN. Is there any reason to belay directly from your harness?
@Dreampanos There are a lot of reasons. One would be that managing the belay for the lead climber can be a lot easier and safer for the leader. Taking in and paying out can be a real f@#%$ing pain off a static point over your head. Protecting the anchor is a very real concern on some belays and you can act as a buffer for the force. Not all multi-pitch have bolts! Bring a second up off the anchor is very common the leader less so.
@mikebarter387 I agree!When belaying the leader I would belay him from my harness but still I would clip his rope through the main anchor biner.But to belay the second from a harness is pointless... in a fall you wont act as buffer since you are attached to the anchor system and eventually you'll stress it.. in that case your harness is like a one point anchor anchored on the main anchor... and btw the kN numbers are expressing directly the braking point and indirectly the likelihood to fail.
@Dreampanos The 14kn vs 30 kn is a mute point. You can't come close to generating those forces unless your at a cragg where your fortunate enough to belay off your bumper but unfortante enough to have the vehicle pull away while doing so. Or in other words I can stick a 30.30 to your head or a .50 cal doesn't matter your dead any way you look at it. The numbers are off on your harness as it is a hell of a lot stronger then 14kn
I'm not the worl'd most experienced multipitch climber, but I've never been able to understand why anyone would belay the second directly off their harness. I always use an ATC guide and belay my second directly off the anchor. I can't think of any real advantage in belaying off your harness with the rope redirected through the anchor. Does it somehow reduce the force on the anchor if the second falls compared to a direct belay on the anchor with an autolocking device?
Is this video really showing best practice???? Safety videos should leave the viewer, (probably a novice) with a clearer idea of how to improve their climbing safety.
A good effort, however i do believe you can do better.
@mcvinda Your so right! Their are better & safer ways to do alot of things covered in Mikes videos. I would suggest to anyone at the beginning of their climbing carers to seek better instruction than this video series! No offence Mike but if your publishing how-to videos you should use "best practices" taught in a more clear and cohesive manner.
another freaky whacked out video from mike barter. where do you get your actors. you need to start paying more dude. i'm giving this ONE STAR. well ok five stars because you asked politely. my question for you for the next vid: what do you do if the rope is too iced up to redirect, i mean if there's too much ice on it for it to fit through the carabiner on the quick draw? i'd appreciate your input.
Ah saw Back Water Closet. Good to see that you are back with more o your insightful questions.
This is a unusaul case but here is what I have done in the past. I untye from the rope then thread it up my pant leg through my shorts and out the neck opening in my jacket. You have to build your anchor high enough so that it is above your head. Because we are talking ice now this is not a problem. Nothing worse then a icy rope so I hope this helps.
The atc belay device is not for belaying the second from your harness like shown in the beginning of the climb. The use of a "Dummy runner" above the atc is obligatory to produce enough holding power! The same is for belaying with a figure 8! For alpine/multi pitch climbing use the atc guide/Petzl Reverso/magic plate or similar devices in there special mudus for belaying the following climber!!
probably a very uninformed question but here it is anyway. When the belayer is initially belaying before redirecting, it looks like the only point of friction between the rope and the belay system was on the biner. Shouldn't the rope experience friction on each side of the belay device as it exits it to create more friction? Or, shouldn't the rope be perpendicular to the biner attached to the belay device instead of parallel? Maybe this is what 007boob007 meant? hope this is clear?
It is a fair question. Once there is a load applied the belay device will be FORCED against the biner. as long as the belayer hangs on to the tail end (belay hand end). The problem would be the the belyer could get pulled off his stance( for no real reason). The dude above is addressing a slightly diffrent thing about the need to redirect the belay. Hard to explain much further
I am not the most experienced multi pitch climber.. but I would prefer to be belayed (or to belay) from the anchor rather from my harness... the physics are simple. Harness: about 14kN combined, Bolt: about 30kN. Is there any reason to belay directly from your harness?
Dreampanos 1 year ago
@Dreampanos There are a lot of reasons. One would be that managing the belay for the lead climber can be a lot easier and safer for the leader. Taking in and paying out can be a real f@#%$ing pain off a static point over your head. Protecting the anchor is a very real concern on some belays and you can act as a buffer for the force. Not all multi-pitch have bolts! Bring a second up off the anchor is very common the leader less so.
mikebarter387 1 year ago
@mikebarter387 I agree!When belaying the leader I would belay him from my harness but still I would clip his rope through the main anchor biner.But to belay the second from a harness is pointless... in a fall you wont act as buffer since you are attached to the anchor system and eventually you'll stress it.. in that case your harness is like a one point anchor anchored on the main anchor... and btw the kN numbers are expressing directly the braking point and indirectly the likelihood to fail.
Dreampanos 1 year ago
@Dreampanos The 14kn vs 30 kn is a mute point. You can't come close to generating those forces unless your at a cragg where your fortunate enough to belay off your bumper but unfortante enough to have the vehicle pull away while doing so. Or in other words I can stick a 30.30 to your head or a .50 cal doesn't matter your dead any way you look at it. The numbers are off on your harness as it is a hell of a lot stronger then 14kn
The Mike
mikebarter387 1 year ago 2
@Dreampanos I have to agree with you. This is a pretty old video. Some folks do this not sure why thou.
mikebarter387 1 year ago
I'm not the worl'd most experienced multipitch climber, but I've never been able to understand why anyone would belay the second directly off their harness. I always use an ATC guide and belay my second directly off the anchor. I can't think of any real advantage in belaying off your harness with the rope redirected through the anchor. Does it somehow reduce the force on the anchor if the second falls compared to a direct belay on the anchor with an autolocking device?
coralnerd 1 year ago
Is this video really showing best practice???? Safety videos should leave the viewer, (probably a novice) with a clearer idea of how to improve their climbing safety.
A good effort, however i do believe you can do better.
mcvinda 1 year ago
@mcvinda Thanks for that, Yoda.
mikebarter387 1 year ago
@mcvinda Your so right! Their are better & safer ways to do alot of things covered in Mikes videos. I would suggest to anyone at the beginning of their climbing carers to seek better instruction than this video series! No offence Mike but if your publishing how-to videos you should use "best practices" taught in a more clear and cohesive manner.
TserEonac 1 year ago
another freaky whacked out video from mike barter. where do you get your actors. you need to start paying more dude. i'm giving this ONE STAR. well ok five stars because you asked politely. my question for you for the next vid: what do you do if the rope is too iced up to redirect, i mean if there's too much ice on it for it to fit through the carabiner on the quick draw? i'd appreciate your input.
sawbackwc 3 years ago
Ah saw Back Water Closet. Good to see that you are back with more o your insightful questions.
This is a unusaul case but here is what I have done in the past. I untye from the rope then thread it up my pant leg through my shorts and out the neck opening in my jacket. You have to build your anchor high enough so that it is above your head. Because we are talking ice now this is not a problem. Nothing worse then a icy rope so I hope this helps.
mikebarter387 3 years ago
The first section of this video was amazing.
OliverKoolKat 3 years ago
The atc belay device is not for belaying the second from your harness like shown in the beginning of the climb. The use of a "Dummy runner" above the atc is obligatory to produce enough holding power! The same is for belaying with a figure 8! For alpine/multi pitch climbing use the atc guide/Petzl Reverso/magic plate or similar devices in there special mudus for belaying the following climber!!
007Bobo007 4 years ago
Sound advice folks.
mikebarter387 4 years ago
probably a very uninformed question but here it is anyway. When the belayer is initially belaying before redirecting, it looks like the only point of friction between the rope and the belay system was on the biner. Shouldn't the rope experience friction on each side of the belay device as it exits it to create more friction? Or, shouldn't the rope be perpendicular to the biner attached to the belay device instead of parallel? Maybe this is what 007boob007 meant? hope this is clear?
hstoecklein 3 years ago
It is a fair question. Once there is a load applied the belay device will be FORCED against the biner. as long as the belayer hangs on to the tail end (belay hand end). The problem would be the the belyer could get pulled off his stance( for no real reason). The dude above is addressing a slightly diffrent thing about the need to redirect the belay. Hard to explain much further
mike
mikebarter387 3 years ago