For once i have to disagree with bill on something.
He implies that the f-22 fighter jet is useless. Nothing can be further from the truth. Just because we don't use it now, doesn't mean it's useless. Just like nuclear weapons. If we TOTALLY got rid of nuclear weapons right now we would have an EXTREME military disadvantage.
The f-22 has proven itself in exercises.
For instance, when the f-22 was put up against the F-15, it got a 144-0 kill ratio.
@vigorousAtheist I think you misunderstood him. He implied that when you put so much money into something, at least use it. And if not, let's get effective and not do that again.
Btw we don't use nuclear weapons yet we spend BILLIONS of dollars just to maintain them.
You see, its called maintaining the balance of power. You cant get rid of these programs because it will unbalance the power.
The f22 is undoubtedly the most advanced and capable fighter jet known to man. It would allow us to go into a country almost completely invisible to quickly deliver a payload.
This kind of advantage is unique to the US military
@vigorousAtheist Well, that is a broader point. If you spend on military more than the rest of the world combined, the balance pretty much isn't there anymore. Nuclear missiles make sense when several other countries have them but when is US military going to be big enough so you can say "Okay, we can do anything anywhere we want"? Bill is talking about that a lot too.
First of all, we don't spend more than the rest of the world combined. We spend around 40% of the world's military expenditures.
And no, it doesn't matter HOW strong your military is, if another country has nukes, it levels the playing fields. Why do you think we haven't attacked north korea? Why do you think iran wants nuclear weapons? Because they know if they have them, we won't mess with them, and they can do whatever they want.
@vigorousAtheist I'm sorry, only first 17 countries (according to Economist at /blogs/dailychart/2011/06/military-spending
I don't argue that technology doesn't need to advance. And I am not one of those people who wants to see military budget being cut without thinking But again, those playing fields aren't that levelled and you need more reasons than just nukes to say otherwise. I may not know the complexity of it all but seriously, 700 bilion just seems too much.
A huge chunk of that 700 billion has to do with iraq and afghanistan. Next year, and after we pull out of afghanistan you will see that number dramatically decrease.
"you need more reasons than just nukes to say otherwise"
??? Sorry but the nuke analogy was a great example, because it shows how we can have advanced and deadly technology that is very useful, without ever being used.
Obama has already stated that one of his missions is to lower the defense budget. We don't even have to wait till it actually happens, cause it's stated right there in his policies.
I never said he would lower the budget right now did i?
Of course the raise of the budget has to do with the wars. You have to spend more to move tens of thousands of soldiers and equipment out of a country(like we're doing with iraq). Also, obama is transferring funds used on weapons and technology to intelligence gathering like the CIA.
Obama is known for his defense cuts. He's the one that cut further development of the F-22 as a matter of fact.
For once i have to disagree with bill on something.
He implies that the f-22 fighter jet is useless. Nothing can be further from the truth. Just because we don't use it now, doesn't mean it's useless. Just like nuclear weapons. If we TOTALLY got rid of nuclear weapons right now we would have an EXTREME military disadvantage.
The f-22 has proven itself in exercises.
For instance, when the f-22 was put up against the F-15, it got a 144-0 kill ratio.
There is no hiding this kind of effectiveness.
vigorousAtheist 4 months ago
@vigorousAtheist I think you misunderstood him. He implied that when you put so much money into something, at least use it. And if not, let's get effective and not do that again.
battalion30 4 months ago
@battalion30
He clearly implied that the f22 is useless.
Btw we don't use nuclear weapons yet we spend BILLIONS of dollars just to maintain them.
You see, its called maintaining the balance of power. You cant get rid of these programs because it will unbalance the power.
The f22 is undoubtedly the most advanced and capable fighter jet known to man. It would allow us to go into a country almost completely invisible to quickly deliver a payload.
This kind of advantage is unique to the US military
vigorousAtheist 4 months ago
@vigorousAtheist But since USA has never used them, you can't say they are actually useFUL, right?
battalion30 4 months ago
@battalion30
Are you serious? Did you not just read what i posted?
Just because a weapon isn't "used" in a theater of war, doesn't mean it's not "used"
I have already told you that it is USED to balance the power, even if it's never killed anyone.
the SAME reason why nuclear missiles are useful.
Pretty soon when we have to stealthily go into iran and destroy their nuclear program you're going to understand what i was talking about.
vigorousAtheist 4 months ago
@vigorousAtheist Well, that is a broader point. If you spend on military more than the rest of the world combined, the balance pretty much isn't there anymore. Nuclear missiles make sense when several other countries have them but when is US military going to be big enough so you can say "Okay, we can do anything anywhere we want"? Bill is talking about that a lot too.
battalion30 4 months ago
@battalion30
First of all, we don't spend more than the rest of the world combined. We spend around 40% of the world's military expenditures.
And no, it doesn't matter HOW strong your military is, if another country has nukes, it levels the playing fields. Why do you think we haven't attacked north korea? Why do you think iran wants nuclear weapons? Because they know if they have them, we won't mess with them, and they can do whatever they want.
vigorousAtheist 4 months ago
@vigorousAtheist I'm sorry, only first 17 countries (according to Economist at /blogs/dailychart/2011/06/military-spending
I don't argue that technology doesn't need to advance. And I am not one of those people who wants to see military budget being cut without thinking But again, those playing fields aren't that levelled and you need more reasons than just nukes to say otherwise. I may not know the complexity of it all but seriously, 700 bilion just seems too much.
battalion30 4 months ago
@battalion30
A huge chunk of that 700 billion has to do with iraq and afghanistan. Next year, and after we pull out of afghanistan you will see that number dramatically decrease.
"you need more reasons than just nukes to say otherwise"
??? Sorry but the nuke analogy was a great example, because it shows how we can have advanced and deadly technology that is very useful, without ever being used.
vigorousAtheist 4 months ago
@vigorousAtheist I am very curious about the "dramatical decrease". Let's continue this discussion after seeing new numbers :)
battalion30 4 months ago
@battalion30
???
Obama has already stated that one of his missions is to lower the defense budget. We don't even have to wait till it actually happens, cause it's stated right there in his policies.
vigorousAtheist 4 months ago
@vigorousAtheist For this fiscal year, he raised it. And not because of wars, they are funded from separate special fund. That is why I'm suspicious.
battalion30 4 months ago
@battalion30
I never said he would lower the budget right now did i?
Of course the raise of the budget has to do with the wars. You have to spend more to move tens of thousands of soldiers and equipment out of a country(like we're doing with iraq). Also, obama is transferring funds used on weapons and technology to intelligence gathering like the CIA.
Obama is known for his defense cuts. He's the one that cut further development of the F-22 as a matter of fact.
vigorousAtheist 4 months ago
Really?
jejo02 5 months ago
audio cuts out........ get an iPhone
attentionstatic 5 months ago
Thanks for this!
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