CrossTalk: In Stalin's Grip

[jamesgravil]

In which case probably no Third Reich, probably no Hitler, and probably no Second World War - at least the war we got - but the arrival of a Moscow-friendly government in Berlin, and the probable capitulation of countries in Eastern Europe (which Stalin was trying to bring into the fold in the late 1920s/early 30s), would have led to a "Cold-War" of sorts, centered on Europe and not on Russia.

[jamesgravil]

And this may seem silly now - people seem to assume that Communism was always destined to fail - but it actually held a lot of attraction for people in the West, even at the height of Stalin's purges. The reason: Russia was the only country unaffected by the Depression. And throughout the 30s it was the country with the highest rate of growth, even though it was "backward" to begin with. If some "nicer" guy had been in charge, it's all too likely that Europe would have followed his lead...

[MarshallJukov]

@jamesgravil

He WAS a nice guy. Best leader of Russia at least for last 700 years and plaised as HERO by at least 60% of Russians even now

He was just SLANDERED alot

stalinsociety. org. uk/lies. html

clogic. eserver. org/2005/furr. html

clogic. eserver. org/2005/furr2. html

chss. montclair. edu/english/furr/

chss. montclair. edu/english/furr/research/litr­ossiainterv0608_eng. html

[jamesgravil]

@MarshallJukov I don't know if "nice guy" is the right way to describe a man who personally signed the death warrants of thousands of civilians, but he was certainly a complicated man, and by no means simply a "monster." You're right, history decides who is considered "good" and who is considered "bad" - Churchill for instance has been portrayed as an almost unilaterally "nice man", but there were a lot of things in his character (e.g. strong racism) which would be cause for dislike nowadays.

[MarshallJukov]

@jamesgravil

Civilians does not mean innocent. And he NEVER signed any death warrants. Except may be years of WW2.

Other than that - all death warrants where signed in COURTS according to Soviet laws - only.

In opposite if you look at history of relations between Stalin and Michail Sholokhov you will see that he at least TWICE saved him from prison and may be even exectution.

[MarshallJukov]

@jamesgravil

I have other fact for you - remember this bastard Solgenitsin? Doctors found CANCER in his stomach in 1952 and removed it with surgery - this litteraly SAVED his life! And he died at age of 89 only in 2008!

Case it that those doctors and surgery happened to be in....GULAG

So much for "death camps" don`t you find?

I repeat - Stalin was just SLANDERED - he it MOST slandered person in history of mankind!

[MarshallJukov]

@jamesgravil

P.S. When he died (killed) whole county GENUINELY CRIED - man cried just like woman, my grandfather almost died in crowding at his funeral! Because for every honest man Stalin was true father and symbol of Great victories and progress in every aspect country made in last 30 years!

[jamesgravil]

All I can say is: Thank God the Soviet Union got Stalin, and not some more level-headed, competent ruler. This is not to denigrate Stalin's achievements (which were enormous, both positive and negative), but simply to observe that IF the USSR had become the "model" country Lenin intended it to be, we'd most likely all be Communist by now. For one thing, it's more than likely that Germany in the 1930s would have gone Red, because the Communist Party was already very influential there.

[tonyd7601]

Not the best show I got a little lost with it. But still a great show about an important leader in a focal point in history. The conspricist in me thinks its interesting that the events of WW2 legitimized Stalin and added 20 years its history

[tonyd7601]

Not the best show I got a little lost with it. But still a great show about an important leader in a focal point in history. The conspricist in me thinks its interesting that the events of WW2 legitimized Stalin and added 20 years its history

[tonyd7601]

Not the best show I got a little lost with it. But still a great show about an important leader in a focal point in history. The conspricist in me thinks its interesting that the events of WW2 legitimized Stalin and added 20 years its history

[riverlioness]

It's wonderful that Russia can discuss Stalin in the last 10 years. Their country has come a long way from a dark age. The Russian people are recovering from 80 years of oppression. I hope they keep moving forward, even through the difficult transition period.

I imagine this is an insecure time for the Russian people. Russians are doing better overall and hopefully the country will leave its past behind it and continue to progress.

[RomeoMike369]

One must ask: Could Russia have defeated Hitler if it had been a Czarist State in 1941? The answer is NO! It took a totalitarian state to defeat another totalitarian state! It took an iron will like Stalins to unify the Soviet Union against a state that was geared for war. The statues of Stalin should not be torn down. Instead, a bronze plaque should have been mounted on the base of these statues stating what Russia has learned about him. Both his good and bad points.

[WhereEaglesDareWWII]

Joseph Stalin = a Jewish mass murderer of Christians. - Stalin the Jew was but one of the other Communist Jews that took over Russia in a Coup d'Etat , NOT a revolution !

Communism is Jewish

[jgreen45123]

Stalin was a great contributor to defence of peace , even before WW2. Look at spain while the west allowed the people of spain to be butchered by franco facists and the nazies. It was the Soviet union led by stalin that stood by the people of spain.

On the other hand, it a truly independant war crimes tribunal was setup the current and past government would be tried in mass murder and assisting facism.

[victor256in]

you are hereby punished for conspiracy against the people and sentenced to 20 years of hard labor in the Gulags. Or wait a minute, coming to think of it I did not think of the NKVD firing squad.

[yurtaevi]

Stalin should not be credited for WW2, all was Stalin is doing throughout the war is laying by the fireplace and drinking vine. officers, soldiers and partizans are the ones who won the war. Stalin only made the things worse during nineteen thirties executing people, including my great grandfather.

[natlissits]

Great interview, RT ! People in the West, especially in Britain, have this huge determination to see Russian government as promoting stalinism. Hopefully some of them will get more in touch with the reality after hearing both Medvedev's and Putin's opinion of Stalin's rule.

[furiasha]

Robert Service is awfully judgemental and in fact, denies Russian people the freedom to discuss the matter that is painful to them freely. I would recommend him to lament over the state of British media that is plainly ignorant or misinforming about Russia.

[CSHOOLIGAN]

Stalin was very succeseful compared to others in his time. If Russia was not rapidly industrialized the Russians would have lost the war and Hitler would probably killed many more people.

[natlissits]

Russians won the war despite Stalin, not thank to him. He was the one, who opposed modernizing the Red Army before the beginning of WW2 (as opposed to Marshal Tukhachevsky, who pushed for it). That's why Russia was so totally unprepared for the war at the beginning of it).

[CSHOOLIGAN]

Yea, i agree. I dont think Stalin was the best person Russia could have had during that time, he was a common criminal in my opinion. He knew there were better and smarter people than him so he did the best thing he could think of and killed people. Neglecting the army and killing most of the top officers was only one of his mistakes that was made by his criminal mind. Without the rapid brutal industrialization the army would not have enough equipment. The people did all the work and suffering.

[12valvepower1]

east berlin was created under stalin. which was a trigger for cold war for many yrs

[12valvepower1]

without russia's modernization... she would have been stuck

[12valvepower1]

my saddest thoughts to perm. i deeply apologize.

[12valvepower1]

he was both. brutal and effective.

[flyhead2]

These Crosstalk debates are far too messy and fractious, with people shouting over each other and interupting trains of thought. The presenter is as bad as any. We don't need to be 'entertained' we need information.

[scorpiooooooh]

Any attempt to rationalize Stalin as an effective leader one can be proud of is like trying to somehow legiamize Hitler. Stalin may have accomplished a few beneficial things but the long term damage he caused far outweighs any good he did. Stalin was a thug with no concience or humanity, he was an animal. Hitler modernized Germany but at what cost? For anyone to romanticize Stalin's megalomaniac reign of terror and his quest for world domination as the "good old days" is pathetic.

[Nitrorus]

>Nice to see someone who talks AGAINST the Russian government of RT.

Nice example of primitive and agressive mind. Look, guys! He likes to see the ones, who talks not FOR truth, but AGAINST Russia. It doesn't matter for him what point Russia has, he is always against.

HarryNRubin, you are russophob! Please, free the world from yourself, smash your head ona a wall.

[Nitrorus]

Then I need to apology and ask you to make longer comments in future with explanations of your choice. I know, 500-digit limit is annoying, but, please, try to do this. Good? :-) Because your words were alike routine russophob rhetoric, that led to misunderstanding of their sense. I hope, that there would be no more conflict and misunderstandings between us. ;-)

[RedGunBullets]

CrossTalk Rulz! great report!

[eldubioso]

Russians should not claim ownership of an ethnic Georgian like Joseph Dzugashvili (Stalin's birth name). More Soviets were killed as a result of Stalin's industrialization policies and his reign of terror than Red Army soldiers in the second world war. Why do Russians want to idolize mummies (Lenin) and paranoid schizophrenics (Stalin)? Historical revision is no way to preserve an accurate historical memory. In the end, Stalin was a butcher of humanity and should be remembered as such.

[eldubioso]

An official spokesman for the Patriarchate of Moscow said there should be no public recognition of those who are guilty of killing large numbers of innocent people. Mr. Putin had encouraged a subtle burnishing of Stalin to promote the idea that Russia needs a strong leader, a centralized government and the monopoly of one party. Levada Center reported in November 2009 that nearly 70 percent agree that Stalin was a cruel tyrant guilty of destroying millions of innocent lives,

[Nitrorus]

eldubioso - the idiot has returned -

another idiotic comment from eldubioso.

You forgot to say about 350 million of people, eaten by Stalin personally. Know this - you are idiot. And none needs your advices. Now you can run and cry as snotty kid.

[eldubioso]

Those that attempt to belittle the truth without evidence are the propagators of falsehoods.

[Jasperserendipity]

of possible falsehoods.

[eternalduty]

Z z z z

[14842]

The real problem is, 50 years ago the Russian and European frond, the people did not have a great program like cross talk. So everyone was poorly educated. Thanks to the new age, people in general are getting smarter. And realize every culture and it genetic heritage has its good and bad points. We all make mistakes but if you look back in time and can say we did our best thats ok isnt it?