Of course words can be offensive. They represent a meaning. They're not meaningless letters on a page. People should sometimes be scared of sentiments behind words if they are bad sentiments. If Jews changed their names to snuggle bunnies, that would be irrelevent to Hitler persecuting them.
@Dangerman5 I didn't say anything about removing words, I'm talking about stripping them of their power. Words and definitions change all the time, that's how language has worked and always will work. And where did this diagnosis of NPD come from, the armchair, or did he say it in a video?
changing all the bad words to goods words is effectively removing all bad words. It's a misunderstanding of what words are there to do. They merely are sounds that express meanings.
Yes words change over time. By that happens by culturally organic grass roots changes. It's not enforced on people against their wishes
The NPD diagnosis comes from a serious group of people that have studied his behaviour in depth over time, many of them working independently such as Sandysweet.
Is he crazy? It's pretty well established he has NPD like many other cult leaders. It's not about writing on walls.
As for the idea, if you don't mean the word, don't say it. You don't change the definition. That's a bizarre approach. Words represent sentiments - it's the sentiment you have to change, not the word. Even the shock jock rappers attempts, misguided as they are, to take back the word are about neutralising the term so white people can't use it against them.
@Niggeritarian Agreed. Because they're the group that it's used against, they'll be more likely to be successful but that doesn't mean that what you're doing should be ignored. The more people trying, the better.
Blech, don't mean to make a third post, but also you'd have to ensure that what ever central resource planning body there was would be able to predict demand in order to set supply without predicting too high or low. Unless there's a method of doing this properly, it'd result in inefficient use of resources on undesired surplus, or it'd create shortages.
The second problem with the VP is that it seems to assume people are blank slates and that their wants and desires can be modified to care about a population beyond Dunbar's number on the same level as they care about themselves. Unless you brainwashed people to have a devotion to "the common good" likened to the pre-existing devotion to "god", it'd be difficult to get a cohesive worldwide community.
The main problem I find with the Venus Project from what I understand is vague-ness and ambiguity in place of specific plans, particularly in the transition phase. In order to build the cities outlined by Fresco, ridiculous resources are necessary that would take years to accumulate. In the mean time managing a communistic city poses unique problems that are not assessed.
A common misconception of The Zeitgeist Movement is that it's directly associated with Peter Joseph's "Zeitgeist" Films, which isn't the case. As he mentioned in a radio address, the next Zeitgeist film could be about skateboarding - that wouldn't make TZM a "skateboarding movement". However, one can understand how people can easily confuse the two.
The Knowledge Base (FAQ) on the website explains this (7) and the RBE's relation to "Communsim" (4.(4) No Property - Universal Access). Everyone should check this out first before posting a comment associating the two for the wrong reasons.
I had to look up what the Venus Project is and I'd never even heard of niggertarian or variblast, but from what I can tell, their ideas seem reasonable. The first thing I'd like to ask is why people always seem to view communism as a bad thing? The definition of communism (A political theory advocating class war and leading to a society in which all property is publicly owned and each person works and is paid according to their abilities and needs.) is actually quite similar to... (continued)
@PrideXentric ...the definition of socialism (A political and economic theory of social organization that advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole). And the guy who writes on furniture? Yeah, if I lived alone and had my own furniture, I might right(or draw) on it too. My friend writes and draws on her pants. It may be a bit eccentric, but it definitely doesn't make us crazy. And what's a "po"?
@PrideXentric A poe is basically a troll that pretends to be someone they're not (normally someone advocating something controversial). If variablast doesn't really believe what he's saying I find it incredible that he'd go to the lengths he's gone to.
I personally care more about fighting racism than taking the power from a word....If I think that me supporting idea will in any way hinder me from fighting against racism I won't back it.
@SandySweet575 Yeh the "I'm proud to be a nigger" thing that he asks people to say is a bit over the top. I guess it's just an idea if anyone does use it as a racist way towards you you could say "yeh, I am, so?"
@Orygyn I'm afraid that I don't see it that way :)
I also think that that we should consider the intentions of the messenger. David and I were on good terms until I refused to "come out as nigger".... he completely turned on me.
@Orygyn I was perplexed by this because supported David and I was one of the few people who tried to defend him. He even went as far as to misrepresent me in one of his videos. Why would someone who has good intentions do that? I don't expect you to answer that but I'm just trying to make a point
@SandySweet575 Yeh his approach is really bad. He doesn't like anyone not only criticising his idea but not committing to it 100%. I still maintain that he's not crazy but he's extremely passionate about his idea and it's almost always a terrible idea to get that attached to any idea.
There's nothing wrong with David's idea. I'm not sure how likely it is to work and I personally don't feel comfortable with "coming out as nigger". I don't feel comfortable with it because I don't think other people will get the point, which is the whole idea. If the audience misses the point when I call myself a "nigger" it will do more harm than good.
the thing is everyone can think of some magical solution, the venus project people have absolutely childish understanding of managing a society and installing a system
O and it's not just the transition phase that's made communist ideas unimplementable. The supposed end goal utopia of both movements don't account for maliciousness and greed, things that I tend to think aren't magically done away with in a utopian society. this is a very lengthy subject that I might have to do a video about later.
@JustaEropeanGuy I'll confirm that it was you for the benefit of others. I'm not sure about the communist ideas but TVP do, they just focus on rehabilitation rather than punishment. At the heart of the idea though is the concept that the scientific method is used to design the system so if their solution isn't feasible, someone can suggest something else.
@JustaEropeanGuy Well that's nothing like what they're proposing at all. It's more about trying to solve the underlying problems that led to the crime in the first place.
Yes, the Venus Project is identitical in theory to Marxism. I noticed that too. However, considering Marxism was last attempted over a century ago I think it's worth a try. Naturally, there can't be a single leader to such a system. There must be a panocracy (everyone voting on every issue) organized by a carefully selected and trained oligarchy whose sole purpose would be to determine what should be voted on next, and to count the votes. Basically, vote handling. We couldn't do that before, but
naturally, with the internet we're capable of much more.
Also, I do agree in principle with Variablast that no single word should have the power to hurt that that word does, and that perhaps the best way to counter it is to change its meaning completely. That said, I don't think he's the best person to pioneer the notion. This sounds kinda racist, but really he needs a few black friends who agree with him to show support, and maybe just speak on behalf of his project. No one wants to hear it
from a white guy. That's my opinion. I don't know that the idea would be well-received even so, but I'm sure it would be better received if it was coming from someone who is perceptibly more culturally affected by the term. Admittedly, you don't hear it in Canada except for in rap songs.
I'd identify as a communist and personally I'd say that they are very similar. I saw the Zeitgeist movies maybe a year or so back and I simply amended them to my Marxist philosophy. If not identical, they're neither in the least bit contradictory. I mean resource based economy was basically line-jocked right out of Das Kapital, not that that would be a bad thing I think it's great if Marx inspired Jaques Fresco, I just think it's sad that people won't admit it.
@Niggeritarian That's fine yeh.
Orygyn 5 months ago
@Niggeritarian I didn't say only they would, that can't work. Everyone needs to use it in a respectful sense.
Orygyn 5 months ago
You won't change the world by removing all bad words from languages. That's getting it backwards.
Dangerman5 5 months ago
Of course words can be offensive. They represent a meaning. They're not meaningless letters on a page. People should sometimes be scared of sentiments behind words if they are bad sentiments. If Jews changed their names to snuggle bunnies, that would be irrelevent to Hitler persecuting them.
Dangerman5 5 months ago
@Dangerman5 I didn't say anything about removing words, I'm talking about stripping them of their power. Words and definitions change all the time, that's how language has worked and always will work. And where did this diagnosis of NPD come from, the armchair, or did he say it in a video?
Orygyn 5 months ago
@Orygyn
changing all the bad words to goods words is effectively removing all bad words. It's a misunderstanding of what words are there to do. They merely are sounds that express meanings.
Yes words change over time. By that happens by culturally organic grass roots changes. It's not enforced on people against their wishes
The NPD diagnosis comes from a serious group of people that have studied his behaviour in depth over time, many of them working independently such as Sandysweet.
Dangerman5 5 months ago
Is he crazy? It's pretty well established he has NPD like many other cult leaders. It's not about writing on walls.
As for the idea, if you don't mean the word, don't say it. You don't change the definition. That's a bizarre approach. Words represent sentiments - it's the sentiment you have to change, not the word. Even the shock jock rappers attempts, misguided as they are, to take back the word are about neutralising the term so white people can't use it against them.
Dangerman5 5 months ago
@Niggeritarian Agreed. Because they're the group that it's used against, they'll be more likely to be successful but that doesn't mean that what you're doing should be ignored. The more people trying, the better.
Orygyn 5 months ago
@Niggeritarian Yeh it's not really something I can summarise in a comment either.
Orygyn 5 months ago
Blech, don't mean to make a third post, but also you'd have to ensure that what ever central resource planning body there was would be able to predict demand in order to set supply without predicting too high or low. Unless there's a method of doing this properly, it'd result in inefficient use of resources on undesired surplus, or it'd create shortages.
justicetrooper 6 months ago
@justicetrooper Yeh I'd like to see more detail too.
Orygyn 6 months ago
The second problem with the VP is that it seems to assume people are blank slates and that their wants and desires can be modified to care about a population beyond Dunbar's number on the same level as they care about themselves. Unless you brainwashed people to have a devotion to "the common good" likened to the pre-existing devotion to "god", it'd be difficult to get a cohesive worldwide community.
justicetrooper 6 months ago
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The main problem I find with the Venus Project from what I understand is vague-ness and ambiguity in place of specific plans, particularly in the transition phase. In order to build the cities outlined by Fresco, ridiculous resources are necessary that would take years to accumulate. In the mean time managing a communistic city poses unique problems that are not assessed.
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justicetrooper 6 months ago
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justicetrooper 6 months ago
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justicetrooper 6 months ago
A quality stimulating video as usual, Orygyn :)
A common misconception of The Zeitgeist Movement is that it's directly associated with Peter Joseph's "Zeitgeist" Films, which isn't the case. As he mentioned in a radio address, the next Zeitgeist film could be about skateboarding - that wouldn't make TZM a "skateboarding movement". However, one can understand how people can easily confuse the two.
Sutaraiku 6 months ago
@Sutaraiku
The Knowledge Base (FAQ) on the website explains this (7) and the RBE's relation to "Communsim" (4.(4) No Property - Universal Access). Everyone should check this out first before posting a comment associating the two for the wrong reasons.
Sutaraiku 6 months ago
@Sutaraiku Ah right yeh.
Orygyn 6 months ago
I had to look up what the Venus Project is and I'd never even heard of niggertarian or variblast, but from what I can tell, their ideas seem reasonable. The first thing I'd like to ask is why people always seem to view communism as a bad thing? The definition of communism (A political theory advocating class war and leading to a society in which all property is publicly owned and each person works and is paid according to their abilities and needs.) is actually quite similar to... (continued)
PrideXentric 6 months ago
@PrideXentric ...the definition of socialism (A political and economic theory of social organization that advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole). And the guy who writes on furniture? Yeah, if I lived alone and had my own furniture, I might right(or draw) on it too. My friend writes and draws on her pants. It may be a bit eccentric, but it definitely doesn't make us crazy. And what's a "po"?
PrideXentric 6 months ago
@PrideXentric A poe is basically a troll that pretends to be someone they're not (normally someone advocating something controversial). If variablast doesn't really believe what he's saying I find it incredible that he'd go to the lengths he's gone to.
Orygyn 6 months ago
@Orygyn Ah. I see.
PrideXentric 6 months ago
@PrideXentric look up Poe's law
JustaEropeanGuy 6 months ago
I personally care more about fighting racism than taking the power from a word....If I think that me supporting idea will in any way hinder me from fighting against racism I won't back it.
SandySweet575 6 months ago
@SandySweet575 Yeh the "I'm proud to be a nigger" thing that he asks people to say is a bit over the top. I guess it's just an idea if anyone does use it as a racist way towards you you could say "yeh, I am, so?"
Orygyn 6 months ago
@Orygyn I'm afraid that I don't see it that way :)
I also think that that we should consider the intentions of the messenger. David and I were on good terms until I refused to "come out as nigger".... he completely turned on me.
SandySweet575 6 months ago
@Orygyn I was perplexed by this because supported David and I was one of the few people who tried to defend him. He even went as far as to misrepresent me in one of his videos. Why would someone who has good intentions do that? I don't expect you to answer that but I'm just trying to make a point
SandySweet575 6 months ago
@SandySweet575 Yeh his approach is really bad. He doesn't like anyone not only criticising his idea but not committing to it 100%. I still maintain that he's not crazy but he's extremely passionate about his idea and it's almost always a terrible idea to get that attached to any idea.
Orygyn 6 months ago
@Orygyn He is quite devoted :)
SandySweet575 6 months ago
There's nothing wrong with David's idea. I'm not sure how likely it is to work and I personally don't feel comfortable with "coming out as nigger". I don't feel comfortable with it because I don't think other people will get the point, which is the whole idea. If the audience misses the point when I call myself a "nigger" it will do more harm than good.
SandySweet575 6 months ago
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SandySweet575 6 months ago
the thing is everyone can think of some magical solution, the venus project people have absolutely childish understanding of managing a society and installing a system
JustaEropeanGuy 6 months ago
O and it's not just the transition phase that's made communist ideas unimplementable. The supposed end goal utopia of both movements don't account for maliciousness and greed, things that I tend to think aren't magically done away with in a utopian society. this is a very lengthy subject that I might have to do a video about later.
JustaEropeanGuy 6 months ago
O well I made that statement about communism and the venus puke.
JustaEropeanGuy 6 months ago
@JustaEropeanGuy I'll confirm that it was you for the benefit of others. I'm not sure about the communist ideas but TVP do, they just focus on rehabilitation rather than punishment. At the heart of the idea though is the concept that the scientific method is used to design the system so if their solution isn't feasible, someone can suggest something else.
Orygyn 6 months ago
@Orygyn "rehabilitation"? You know what they called concentration camps in the USSR right? Re-education camps.(as far as I can remember)
JustaEropeanGuy 6 months ago
@JustaEropeanGuy Well that's nothing like what they're proposing at all. It's more about trying to solve the underlying problems that led to the crime in the first place.
Orygyn 6 months ago
@Orygyn thing is not all crime is economically motivated
JustaEropeanGuy 6 months ago
@tiberianhorde That's fine.
Orygyn 6 months ago
Yes, the Venus Project is identitical in theory to Marxism. I noticed that too. However, considering Marxism was last attempted over a century ago I think it's worth a try. Naturally, there can't be a single leader to such a system. There must be a panocracy (everyone voting on every issue) organized by a carefully selected and trained oligarchy whose sole purpose would be to determine what should be voted on next, and to count the votes. Basically, vote handling. We couldn't do that before, but
HazardousChemist 6 months ago
naturally, with the internet we're capable of much more.
Also, I do agree in principle with Variablast that no single word should have the power to hurt that that word does, and that perhaps the best way to counter it is to change its meaning completely. That said, I don't think he's the best person to pioneer the notion. This sounds kinda racist, but really he needs a few black friends who agree with him to show support, and maybe just speak on behalf of his project. No one wants to hear it
HazardousChemist 6 months ago
from a white guy. That's my opinion. I don't know that the idea would be well-received even so, but I'm sure it would be better received if it was coming from someone who is perceptibly more culturally affected by the term. Admittedly, you don't hear it in Canada except for in rap songs.
HazardousChemist 6 months ago
@HazardousChemist I really like this response.
Orygyn 6 months ago
I'd identify as a communist and personally I'd say that they are very similar. I saw the Zeitgeist movies maybe a year or so back and I simply amended them to my Marxist philosophy. If not identical, they're neither in the least bit contradictory. I mean resource based economy was basically line-jocked right out of Das Kapital, not that that would be a bad thing I think it's great if Marx inspired Jaques Fresco, I just think it's sad that people won't admit it.
LiBlub1 6 months ago
@LiBlub1 Indeed.
Orygyn 6 months ago