loooooool . nice simulation . still ... at this race some of the horses are ... legendary . Zenyatta was a very good racer , still ... here we talk about wire to wire record breaker Ruffian , about two triple crown winners , about some almost triple crown winners or horses that beat the best in their good days . the probability that Zenyatta to beat all of them is very little . damn , Citation is there . who will win ? impossible to tell .
As for the stupid arguments about she could only run on synthetic. That's BS. Lots of great horses ONLY ran on dirt or ONLY ran on turf. Although sythetic is a relatively new surface, it make no difference. Zenyatta outran triple crown winners on the dirt in her final race. Just give this mare her credit. Was she great? ABSOLUTELY. How she matched up with horses from the stone ages..........I could care less. Comparing he to Rapid Redux is idiotic. Slap yourself!!! He is a claimer.
I'll say this to all the Zenyatta haters. This mare did everything that was asked of her. She outran G1 winning males and females. Should would have won her last race, but she ran into traffic turning for home. Is she the best mare of all-time? I don't know. But I know she belongs in the conversation. Anytime you compare horses or athletes from different eras, you're gonna have an argument on your hands. It's not fair to anyone. This video is just for fun.
There is no way that Ruffian would finish 5th, nor Zenyatta before Citation! I'd guess it would be more like a duel between Citation and Ruffian, with Zenyatta campaigning for 3rd and Seabiscuit at her heels.
@westinniles - Bud you just have to put Zenyatta in the gate with All Along, Makybe Diva, Zarkava, and Dance Smartly and watch her bring up the rear. Zenyatta's record is consecutive GR1 wins, which are flawed anyhow. People say Blame won because he is familiar with Churchill downs surface.....well how about the Mare and Santa Anita???. She was VERY familiar with that track, and beat horses from europe who were running on the Poly for the first time.
@TicinoParadise - She is no doubt the most overrated race mare in history. Your ignorant if you think she beat any thing more then GR3 caliber horses in all her restricted races she ran. Aside from Switch who wasn't even a GR1 winner yet, and was a sprinter. St. Trinians...please, Zardana...Please. can you name any other filly, or mare she raced and beat that was of GR1 quality?.........
Oh yes, Ruffian. LOL! Didn't she stay in New York all her life? Oh, wait a minute, she left New York once (to race next door in that shithole they call New Jersey). ROTFLMFAO!
Listen cowboy,
Take your leaf blower and your gardening equipment and get the fuck out of our country and go back to Mexico.
All of these horses, including Secretariat and Man o'War, are champions in their own right and can't be compared unless they truly met up. For example, Man o'War bested Sir Barton and Seabiscuit bested War Admiral. Seattle Slew bested Affirmed in the Marloboro Cup Invitational, and Affirmed bested Spectacular Bid in the Jockey Club Gold Cup. By the way, this is KrisandGM4Life, so I must apologize to airsoftdoggies, who is my brother. He used to use my account until he got his own account.
@westinniles omg you so have to get over the Onion. Lol now close your eyes, think about being on the beach sitting with a nice cold drink and say.....,,,wooo saww......while taking nice slow deep breaths.
@mmaderia lol that made me laugh. I am a Zenyatta fan big time but I also said "how could they leave Secretariat out of this race" even I am not dumb enough to think Z could beat Secretariat. Maybe 1 or 2 times out of 10 races depending on track, location and health of the horses. Just my opinion... :)
@Soccertz1 i'd guess 'sec' and 'man o war' are excluded from this race cuz their one, two finish would "should" be forgone conclusion if all variables consistent and each horse is performing at full mental and physical capacity. i also think ghostzapper would dominate this field, and IMO is only horse i've seen run so incredibly fast at 1/8 and 1/4 distances that he would give sec and man all the competition they could handle and could beat them. astonishing zapper not in blood top 100???
Just as the title read Zenyatta vs. THE BEST. She doesn't come close to any of these, not to mention this is just a virtual race. It's not the real thing.
@VivaLaEquus Actually, she might be good against many of these. I'd hardly call ALL of these "the best", when you include Barbaro, Rachel, Smarty, and even Cigar against Citation and Affirmed, e.g. I was willing to go "best of the decade" until some of those old names popped up - yet not all the greatest old names did!
The reason Sec & Man o war aren't in this sim is cuz there's already a sim created w them & the other elites out there. I haven't seen it but know it exists. If anyone can find it, plz post it...
i don't know if she would handle citation but i have been in racing 35 years zenyatta the best female i ever saw period....yes better then ruffian and i saw them both in the flesh.
@ZenyattaLuvr you said, a 5 way race between those horses, and i said how i thought it would turn out, but truthfully, I would say Ruffian would run 1st, with Secretariat a lip behind her, then zenyatta about half a length behind secretariat, with rachel a nose behind zenyatta, and man o war half a length behind rachel
@RuffianQueenOfRacing R U GUYS out of your mind!!!! SEC & MAN O WAR don't belong in this race it's beneath them... THERE'S A REASON WHY THEY WEREN'T INCLUDED... IT'S A FOREGONE CONCLUSION 1,2... and i'm not so sure GHOSTZAPPER would waste his time either... DGMWrong i luv, luv, LUV zen and ruffian and all other horses in this race. but there's a very very very exclusive club of horses that r somewhat untouchable at their best and (SEC, MAN, and GZAPPER) are it
@westinniles LOL zenyatta is slow! she had stamina but now speed!
but i guess she didnt have as much stamina as ruffian or secretariat, since she never raced near 1 1/2 miles!
and all those horses you named, except big red, had to be told to run, had to be whipped in almost every race!
where as ruffian set track records, won by huge margins and set new stakes records in all of the 8 she raced in, and was only whipped in the soroity, which she had a popped splint, RUFFIAN would OWN that field
Zenyatta holds the mile and a sixteenth track record at Del Mar and owns the second fastest running of the Breeders Cup Distaff (in its 27 year history) with a mile and an eighth in 1:46 and change.
Is this Larry Collmus calling this race?. I would like to add that the 3 most important horses are not in this race, which I would assume would be to keep the uproar to a minimum ....if possible. But as far as North American based horses Secretariat, Dr.Fager, and Ghostzapper are missing, and you could have added The Bid, Skip Away, Alysheba, and Izvestia also. They should be in place of horses like Big Brown, Seabiscuit, and Smarty Jones. JMO. Cool idea with the simulator. Keep them comin
the only reason they didnt put secretariat in here is because there would be an even bigger up roar... dont you get it? if secretariat was in this race, and they made it so he won, most zenyatta fans would start arguements, but if secretariat was in this race and zenyatta won.. well can you see where im coming from?
and to put ruffian as 6th? LAUGHABLE! once she was in the lead, there was no catching her.. its and insult to her memory to place her 6th! no place apart from 1st fits her!
Don't be so bitter, sweetheart. Ruffian was good enough to beat fillies, but when she finally faced "Foolish Pleasure" and he was at her throat latch "from flag fall to that's all", Ruffian reacted and folded like a cheap tent. It's quite a different story when you have easy leads and your not "looked in the eye" during a race. Track records are set all the time by non-graded horses when they are not challenged for the lead and they are "allowed" to relax.
@westinniles hot n nasty looked ruffian in the eye the entire way round the track, and ruffian didnt fold, despite having a popped splint, she still set a new stakes record!
Ruffian won her maiden by 15 lengths under a hand ride in the process running the fastest 5 1/2 furlong time run by any 2 year old at belmont, also setting a track record at saratoga for running the fastest time for a 2 year old ever, was only whipped in one race and had a faster quater in her 1 1/2 mile then sec did in his
@DBJKAJ LOL They BOTH had to be hit with the whip to the extreme where as Ruffian was only ever whipped 3 times in one race where she was injured and still set a stakes record!
Citation has some of the slowest times i have seen! he had to be pushed and still his times are wack!
Affirmed... dont even get me started! the only race he has faster than Ruffian is the 1 1/2mile race! and Ruffian was choked in that race!
No, were not kidding you. Secretariat was inconsistent. He'd break two track records and then lose to mediocre horses like "Onion" How can a fucking horse set a world record of 2:24 flat and then lose to a fucking horse like Onion? He's considered garbage to some. You don't set track records and then lose to horses like "Onion".
I'll buy into the "abscess in the mouth" theory when he lost the Wood memorial but losing against horseflesh like "Onion" is inexcusable.
No, Cigar" would of finished dead last if he didn't ride the rail the whole trip. Most overrated horse in the history of our sport. He was beating up on an inferior horseflesh out here. Cigar finally went out west and got his ass handed to him.
Zennyatta was an amazing racehorse, and just because 'back then" all the other horses would have won, doesn't mean they always get the spot light. Zenyatta was un- defeated in all the races she raced in.
Zenyatta is a great horse- but Ruffian would have killed the field. I believe it was in Ruffian's mentality that no matter what happens- never let another horse get in front of her. It sounds silly but look at hose she runs.
i think zenyatta is a great racehorse........but come on!, look at the other horses racing in this simulation,! i don't think she would have beaten most of those horses!, but thats just my opinion :):)
U can tell a computer used only numbers-- because Zenyatta is the biggest horse on this fictional track, her stride is therefore the longest. To a computer, Zenyatta will always win. It can't factor in competitive nature of each animal... if it could, i think the results would be different.
I think a lot of people are missing the point.... there's only 9 spots... this simulation was just a specific group of horses... not intended to say these are the "best".
I've seen a simulation with ManO, Secretariat, Spectaular Bid, Cigar, Seattle Slew, Seabiscuit, Affirm and Alydar.. people were not happy with that outcome either.
@katnjas Ruffian never even ran in the rces with big red first off her times were best and man o war was better then big red for sure you need to learn MORE about horse racing
@johnofohu123 Mate. Dont start this shit. My father Owns a 3 year old champion of Australia okay. I AM in the racing business and I know Secretariats owner Penny okay. His times Owned Man O Wars times. Yes he was fast, but no fast enough to beat Big Red. Cant handle the truth? Get Over it and Get a life,
@katnjas Well guess what i live in AMERICA i know the best i am friends with the owners of animal kingdom and zenyatta i know the best and Ruffian my friend is the best even look her up you seem to know SHIT about horse racing
@katnjas I do have a life i go to collage SMART ASS your the fucking one going on videos saying shit that are not true and if you have a life why the fuck do you live in a dirty tampon!
@wolfyyy1 I live in a dirty tampon cos I can :) If you where the age you say you are, you would have ended this ages ago. We all have out opinions now fuck off and go live the life you say you have.
@katnjas your father owns a 3 year old champion? my trainer owns a 2 year old champion! i work with racehorses in australia, i have videos of some of them on my channel.
lets bring out the times of Man o war and Ruffian shall we?
5 1/2 furlong: Man o War 1:05.60, Ruffian 1:02.80, 6 furlong Man o War 1.11.20, Ruffian 1:08.60, 1 1/8 mile, Man o War 1:49.20, Ruffian 1:47.80, 1mile Man o War 1:35.80, Ruffian 1:34.40, 1 1/2 mile Man o War 2:28.80 Ruffian 2:27.80!
@RuffianQueenOfRacing Fuckign hell. Get over yourself, the 3 year old racer We own is faster than all thoise times in his breezing. Let alone his races. End of convo, We all have our opinions. accept mine
@katnjas LOL whats his name? if hes such a champion?
oh right, he most likely doesnt exist! and if he does he most likely isnt much of a racehorse at all!
ile tell you my trainers champion "Private Chat" the only race he hasnt placed in was a race that he shattered his hoof!
anyways, you tell me to get over myself when i gave you FACTS after you said "man o war time was much faster then ruffians faster time" when really, his fastest time wasnt even faster then ruffians slowest =P
@RuffianQueenOfRacing Kenos Pushout. you most likely havnt heard of him like I havnt heard of Private chat. Keno hasnt lost any race he has run in and I am not gonna reply to a comment you post as Im not aqn immature fuck and im not going to go on with this convasation
@katnjas you know whats HILARIOUS!? the fact that NO australian horse racing sites have that horse on them! if hes such a champion then he is bound to be on ONE of them, but hes on NONE!
also the other HILARIOUS thing is that you call me an"immature fuck" and swear and throw insults when i simply gave you facts after you were to stupid to look them up before you shot your mouth off!
YOU are the "immature fuck" and YOU need to "get over yourself"
ruffian had faster short distance and he had faster long distance there for niether of them were better then the other!
secretariat had 3 seconds faster 1 1/2 mile and ruffian had a 4 second faster 5 1/2 furlong, had faster 6 furlong by over 2 seconds and a faster 7 furlong by over 2 seconds and she also beat one of his miles by 1 1/2 seconds, also beat one of his 1 1/8 miles by 2 seconds, so you cant say she wasnt faster!
@katnjas and you do realise that if he was brought to australia then he would show up on the sites here, and you do realise that he doesnt even show up on any horse racing sites! guess he doesnt exist or raced in such poor races that my dog could have won!
@RuffianQueenOfRacing Once again. Just cos you cant find him doesnt mean he doesnt exist. Back off okay. I am not going to argue with you anymore as I have a life and im gonan go live it.
and i LOVE how you said ruffian wasnt faster than secretariat, then i gave you times and you just shut up about it! LOL sounds like someone "cant handle the truth" as you might say =P
@RuffianQueenOfRacing You are wrong... Again! Im just sick and tired of yourcommetns. We all have our opinions. Accept mine and face the fact Secretariat was faster. I would bother replying as im not goin to reply.
secretariat had 3 seconds faster 1 1/2 mile and ruffian had a 4 second faster 5 1/2 furlong, had faster 6 furlong by over 2 seconds and a faster 7 furlong by over 2 seconds and she also beat one of his miles by 1 1/2 seconds, also beat one of his 1 1/8 miles by 2 seconds, so you cant say she wasnt faster!
obviously YOU cant handle the truth little one, run along now back to your fake racehorse
ok they got it right with Zenyatta winning, but i know ruffian should have gotten at least 3rd. rachel A shouldve been up there with the top too. idk about where the rest would be, but ruffian and rachel A deserve better.
@johnofohu123 What is your problem? I wasnt trying to get into a fight with anyone. I love Zenyatta and Ruffian but was that really nessecary? Seriously get an attitude adjustment. Chill.
Seabiscut NEVER stayed in the back. and who on earth would leave a hole the size of texas for a frieght train like zenyatta. DONT agree with this video at all
wow the simulation is bad. All of those horses are great but there were all in seprate times no one really knows who wood win. You guys r fighting about wheither secretariat wood win but the thing is the horse cood have a bad day they all r amazing it dosent matter who wood win they r all the best in there own way
Cigar ran 2:00 min and under 3 times at a mile and a quarter,. no horse in this field ran that fast. on there best days according to the times, cigar beats them all.
Ruffian ran one of the weakest campaigns on record. She stayed in New York all her life. Ran one race outside her home state (AKA: ran next door in the state of New Jersey).
...and when she ran against males, she died trying to beat a Kentucky Derby champion.
We all like to "worship" the ones that left us in their prime (James Dean, Marilyn Monroe, etc), but Ruffian ran against cupcakes. The only "legitimate" runner she ever faced was Foolish Pleasure.
@DBJKAJ I honestly can't speak for the crop of fillies she raced against but you can't argue track times which she equaled or set records everytime out and all but 1 still stand today, and she did that while being held back most of the time. She would have ran away from Foolish Pleasure down the stretch.
I'm not into racing, but secretariat no doubt, would win. It's a fact he truly was different, with a larger heart. Making him run longer distances, he IS the best.
I think and feel Ruffian should have won. I wonder what factors are used in their algorithms to determine how each virtual horse runs. Definitely should have been Ruffian.
im reading some of these comments, and according to %99 if Secretariat was in the race, he would have won, and with the race as it is, Ruffian would have won! which is true on both accounts!
Ruffian would have won. That is all that I have to say. In case you didn't know, in every single race that she ran her jockey was choking her to the wire b/c he was afraid that she would hurt herself from going so fast. Zenyatta may be a great racehorse but Ruffian wouldn't have let anyone past her, even if it killed her. I don't think that all of those horses would have slowed down and just fallen back like that.
@storytime98 they were to scared it would show secretariat whooping all those horses asse's on the track thats why they didnt put sec on there. :) but dont mind me ruffian would keep up with sec but he would win no doubt.
im sorry but im disappointed in the horses chosen, and granted Ruffian won only 11 races and Zen 19, but if Ruffians owners werent greedy and hadnt raced Foolish Pleasure, no doubt would she have gone on to win 19 or 20 or 21 races. she definately wouldve came close to man o wars record. and really? RA last??its very cool how we can do things like this, but no.if they want to make it fair, do all TC winners in one, then maybe champ. 3 yos in one, derby winners.. then have a race of the winners
This was either programmed by the ignorant or it is simply Pimlico pandering to the uninformed. I could go on and on, but just to give one example Cigar, as a 5yr. old, on May 13, 1995 won the Pimlico Special at 1 3/16 (Gr. 1) in an EASY 1:53 3/5, despite running the first 1/2 mile in a slow 48sec. What evidence is there the Zenyatta could have run a sub-1:54 1 3/16 at Pimlico!?
Ha ! That was fun. Too bad Secretariat and Man o' War couldn't make it. :))
Barbaro took a day off in this one, well, everything is possible in a sim. :o)
watchingponies 1 week ago
loooooool . nice simulation . still ... at this race some of the horses are ... legendary . Zenyatta was a very good racer , still ... here we talk about wire to wire record breaker Ruffian , about two triple crown winners , about some almost triple crown winners or horses that beat the best in their good days . the probability that Zenyatta to beat all of them is very little . damn , Citation is there . who will win ? impossible to tell .
bulllea 1 week ago
i cant believe they put such an old horse like seabiscuit to race. XD
Samnightingale123 1 week ago
As for the stupid arguments about she could only run on synthetic. That's BS. Lots of great horses ONLY ran on dirt or ONLY ran on turf. Although sythetic is a relatively new surface, it make no difference. Zenyatta outran triple crown winners on the dirt in her final race. Just give this mare her credit. Was she great? ABSOLUTELY. How she matched up with horses from the stone ages..........I could care less. Comparing he to Rapid Redux is idiotic. Slap yourself!!! He is a claimer.
stirupshit 2 weeks ago
I'll say this to all the Zenyatta haters. This mare did everything that was asked of her. She outran G1 winning males and females. Should would have won her last race, but she ran into traffic turning for home. Is she the best mare of all-time? I don't know. But I know she belongs in the conversation. Anytime you compare horses or athletes from different eras, you're gonna have an argument on your hands. It's not fair to anyone. This video is just for fun.
stirupshit 2 weeks ago
There is no way that Ruffian would finish 5th, nor Zenyatta before Citation! I'd guess it would be more like a duel between Citation and Ruffian, with Zenyatta campaigning for 3rd and Seabiscuit at her heels.
NotMilkable 1 month ago
@NotMilkable
...and then you woke up, right?
Flylion132FUCKU 1 month ago
@Flylion132FUCKU No, Zenyatta isn't great. Shes another Rapid Redux. Track Records? None. American Records? None. World Records? None. RECORDS? NONE.
NotMilkable 1 month ago
@NotMilkable
Seems your quite ignorant.
Zenyatta owns a world record, track record and multiple stakes records. Go to Wikipedia and look it up, you clown.
westinniles 1 month ago
@westinniles - Bud you just have to put Zenyatta in the gate with All Along, Makybe Diva, Zarkava, and Dance Smartly and watch her bring up the rear. Zenyatta's record is consecutive GR1 wins, which are flawed anyhow. People say Blame won because he is familiar with Churchill downs surface.....well how about the Mare and Santa Anita???. She was VERY familiar with that track, and beat horses from europe who were running on the Poly for the first time.
TicinoParadise 1 month ago
@TicinoParadise - She is no doubt the most overrated race mare in history. Your ignorant if you think she beat any thing more then GR3 caliber horses in all her restricted races she ran. Aside from Switch who wasn't even a GR1 winner yet, and was a sprinter. St. Trinians...please, Zardana...Please. can you name any other filly, or mare she raced and beat that was of GR1 quality?.........
TicinoParadise 1 month ago
@NotMilkable
...and then you woke up, right?
westinniles 3 weeks ago
@westinniles I sure fucking didn't. Zenyatta couldn't have nipped Landaluce, forget Ruffian and Citation.
NotMilkable 3 weeks ago
@NotMilkable
Oh yes, Ruffian. LOL! Didn't she stay in New York all her life? Oh, wait a minute, she left New York once (to race next door in that shithole they call New Jersey). ROTFLMFAO!
Listen cowboy,
Take your leaf blower and your gardening equipment and get the fuck out of our country and go back to Mexico.
Do we understand each other?
europeracing 2 weeks ago
Interesting.
oaklandtobangkok 1 month ago
All of these horses, including Secretariat and Man o'War, are champions in their own right and can't be compared unless they truly met up. For example, Man o'War bested Sir Barton and Seabiscuit bested War Admiral. Seattle Slew bested Affirmed in the Marloboro Cup Invitational, and Affirmed bested Spectacular Bid in the Jockey Club Gold Cup. By the way, this is KrisandGM4Life, so I must apologize to airsoftdoggies, who is my brother. He used to use my account until he got his own account.
airsoftdoggies 2 months ago
@westinniles omg you so have to get over the Onion. Lol now close your eyes, think about being on the beach sitting with a nice cold drink and say.....,,,wooo saww......while taking nice slow deep breaths.
Soccertz1 2 months ago
@mmaderia lol that made me laugh. I am a Zenyatta fan big time but I also said "how could they leave Secretariat out of this race" even I am not dumb enough to think Z could beat Secretariat. Maybe 1 or 2 times out of 10 races depending on track, location and health of the horses. Just my opinion... :)
Soccertz1 2 months ago
@Soccertz1 i'd guess 'sec' and 'man o war' are excluded from this race cuz their one, two finish would "should" be forgone conclusion if all variables consistent and each horse is performing at full mental and physical capacity. i also think ghostzapper would dominate this field, and IMO is only horse i've seen run so incredibly fast at 1/8 and 1/4 distances that he would give sec and man all the competition they could handle and could beat them. astonishing zapper not in blood top 100???
rsbarrett4991 1 month ago
What happened to secretariat???
McFamouse 3 months ago
@McFamouse
Where is Secretariat?
I'll tell you where he's at...
He's behind "Onion".
westinniles 2 months ago
@westinniles
they say ... "at their peak" . do you heard that ? because I kinda did . they not say "at their sick" .
bulllea 1 week ago
@McFamouse Scratched.
oaklandtobangkok 1 month ago
LOL wow Pimlico wishes it looked like that!
theOlLineRebel 3 months ago
Just as the title read Zenyatta vs. THE BEST. She doesn't come close to any of these, not to mention this is just a virtual race. It's not the real thing.
VivaLaEquus 3 months ago
@VivaLaEquus Actually, she might be good against many of these. I'd hardly call ALL of these "the best", when you include Barbaro, Rachel, Smarty, and even Cigar against Citation and Affirmed, e.g. I was willing to go "best of the decade" until some of those old names popped up - yet not all the greatest old names did!
theOlLineRebel 3 months ago
@theOlLineRebel They should've added Secretariat and Man O' War. Now that would've been a race.
VivaLaEquus 3 months ago
Sorry, but Zenyatta beating Seabiscuit, Citation, Affirmed, and Ruffian?
No.
Phanatic24601 3 months ago
@Phanatic24601
Oh, come 'on!
Don't be like that...
westinniles 2 months ago
these are all awesome horses, but why is Man O' War or Secretariat never involved?
christina7513 3 months ago
Zenyatta is not that good!Ruffian should have won!
MegaHorseracer 3 months ago
@MegaHorseracer
In your wet dreams....
westinniles 2 months ago
Comment removed
MegaHorseracer 2 months ago
@westinniles dork
MegaHorseracer 2 months ago
where the fuck is secretariat?
morzloks 4 months ago
@morzloks
He's behind "Onion".
DBJKAJ 3 months ago
@morzloks
He's behind "Onion"
westinniles 2 months ago
I want this sim but my mac wont support it
mindthegap2012 4 months ago
The reason Sec & Man o war aren't in this sim is cuz there's already a sim created w them & the other elites out there. I haven't seen it but know it exists. If anyone can find it, plz post it...
kmab4ever 4 months ago
i don't know if she would handle citation but i have been in racing 35 years zenyatta the best female i ever saw period....yes better then ruffian and i saw them both in the flesh.
renduke 4 months ago
1, Ruffian is the queen and way better then all of them 2, Man o war is horse of the century 3, You all need help!
AmandaRainbowMuffinz 4 months ago
@AmandaRainbowMuffinz
...and then you fuckin woke up, right?
DBJKAJ 3 months ago
@DBJKAJ And your a faggot c;
AmandaRainbowMuffinz 3 months ago
@AlbertosaurusTX Seabiscuit is wack phar laps would kill him if he was around still
AmandaRainbowMuffinz 4 months ago
AFFIRMED WOULD WIN THIS RACE
caliwaters88 4 months ago
the winner is barbaro the best horse
aguerridocash 4 months ago
@aguerridocash You need help
AmandaRainbowMuffinz 4 months ago
this should be a 5 way race between RA, Z, ruffian, Man O' War and Secretariat... those horses are the royals of the track...
ZenyattaLuvr 4 months ago
@ZenyattaLuvr secretariat, ruffian, zenyatta, rachel and man o war is how i think it would turn out
RuffianQueenOfRacing 4 months ago
@RuffianQueenOfRacing interesting thought... i dont quite inderstand it though... explane?
ZenyattaLuvr 4 months ago
@ZenyattaLuvr you said, a 5 way race between those horses, and i said how i thought it would turn out, but truthfully, I would say Ruffian would run 1st, with Secretariat a lip behind her, then zenyatta about half a length behind secretariat, with rachel a nose behind zenyatta, and man o war half a length behind rachel
RuffianQueenOfRacing 4 months ago
@RuffianQueenOfRacing ahh i see now :)
ZenyattaLuvr 4 months ago
@RuffianQueenOfRacing R U GUYS out of your mind!!!! SEC & MAN O WAR don't belong in this race it's beneath them... THERE'S A REASON WHY THEY WEREN'T INCLUDED... IT'S A FOREGONE CONCLUSION 1,2... and i'm not so sure GHOSTZAPPER would waste his time either... DGMWrong i luv, luv, LUV zen and ruffian and all other horses in this race. but there's a very very very exclusive club of horses that r somewhat untouchable at their best and (SEC, MAN, and GZAPPER) are it
caliwaters88 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@caliwaters88
Who the fuck are you?
Listen "Shit for Brains":
Take your leaf blower and your gardening equipment and get the fuck out of our country and go back to Mexico.
Do we understand each other?
westinniles 4 months ago
@RuffianQueenOfRacing
I'd put them in this order:
Zenyatta, Secretariat and the rest (tie between Rachel Alexandra and Ruffian)
If Spectacular Bid was in here, he would be at the top. Spectacular Bid was the best horse to ever shit behind four hooves.
Spectacular Bid = A world record for a mile and a quarter in 1:57 and change.
Secretariat could try to run this fast for a mile and a quarter , but it would only happen in his wet dreams......
westinniles 4 months ago
@westinniles LOL zenyatta is slow! she had stamina but now speed!
but i guess she didnt have as much stamina as ruffian or secretariat, since she never raced near 1 1/2 miles!
and all those horses you named, except big red, had to be told to run, had to be whipped in almost every race!
where as ruffian set track records, won by huge margins and set new stakes records in all of the 8 she raced in, and was only whipped in the soroity, which she had a popped splint, RUFFIAN would OWN that field
RuffianQueenOfRacing 4 months ago
@RuffianQueenOfRacing
Was Big Red ever involved in a "Walkover"?
1980 Woodward
Watch and learn...
westinniles 4 months ago
@westinniles he was involved in the 1973 belmont, which might aswell have been a walkover
RuffianQueenOfRacing 4 months ago
@RuffianQueenOfRacing
Quote from "RuffianQueenOfRacing":
"zenyatta is slow"
Are you on dope?
Zenyatta holds the mile and a sixteenth track record at Del Mar and owns the second fastest running of the Breeders Cup Distaff (in its 27 year history) with a mile and an eighth in 1:46 and change.
DBJKAJ 3 months ago
@DBJKAJ her time in the breeders cup isnt the second fastest! not even the 3rd fastest!
RuffianQueenOfRacing 3 months ago
Is this Larry Collmus calling this race?. I would like to add that the 3 most important horses are not in this race, which I would assume would be to keep the uproar to a minimum ....if possible. But as far as North American based horses Secretariat, Dr.Fager, and Ghostzapper are missing, and you could have added The Bid, Skip Away, Alysheba, and Izvestia also. They should be in place of horses like Big Brown, Seabiscuit, and Smarty Jones. JMO. Cool idea with the simulator. Keep them comin
TicinoParadise 4 months ago
@DBJKAJ You are proof that there's really no hope for humanity. Get a life and stop badgering people on youtube, THAT is pretty pathetic. :)
You should probably not even bother following racing today if you think so low of Secretariat.
kikiiimarieexx 5 months ago
didn't put Secretariat in there because there would be an obvious winner. :)
kikiiimarieexx 5 months ago
@kikiiimarieexx
No, I don't think so "shit for brains".
You never knew what you were getting with Secretariat. One day he's running 2:24 flat and the next day he's losing to horses like "Onion".
Pathetic (to say the least...)
DBJKAJ 5 months ago
@DBJKAJ hahaha wow calm down asshole. don't have to get all "hardcore with the keyboard"
Secretariat was an amazing athlete, no one can deny that, calling him pathetic should be some sort of treason!
any horse can have bad days.
kikiiimarieexx 5 months ago
@kikiiimarieexx
How tall are you again?
...because i was told they didn't stack shit that high.
Listen Cowboy,
Secretariat would set a world record and then lose to horseflesh like "Onion"
It is what it is. Do we understand each other?
DBJKAJ 5 months ago
the only reason they didnt put secretariat in here is because there would be an even bigger up roar... dont you get it? if secretariat was in this race, and they made it so he won, most zenyatta fans would start arguements, but if secretariat was in this race and zenyatta won.. well can you see where im coming from?
and to put ruffian as 6th? LAUGHABLE! once she was in the lead, there was no catching her.. its and insult to her memory to place her 6th! no place apart from 1st fits her!
RuffianQueenOfRacing 5 months ago
@RuffianQueenOfRacing
Don't be so bitter, sweetheart. Ruffian was good enough to beat fillies, but when she finally faced "Foolish Pleasure" and he was at her throat latch "from flag fall to that's all", Ruffian reacted and folded like a cheap tent. It's quite a different story when you have easy leads and your not "looked in the eye" during a race. Track records are set all the time by non-graded horses when they are not challenged for the lead and they are "allowed" to relax.
westinniles 5 months ago
@westinniles hot n nasty looked ruffian in the eye the entire way round the track, and ruffian didnt fold, despite having a popped splint, she still set a new stakes record!
Ruffian won her maiden by 15 lengths under a hand ride in the process running the fastest 5 1/2 furlong time run by any 2 year old at belmont, also setting a track record at saratoga for running the fastest time for a 2 year old ever, was only whipped in one race and had a faster quater in her 1 1/2 mile then sec did in his
RuffianQueenOfRacing 5 months ago
Comment removed
DBJKAJ 5 months ago
@RuffianQueenOfRacing
Are you really this fucking stupid?
All I can tell you is this:
If you think Ruffian would of had a prayer of beating Citation or Affirmed, then your living in a fantasy world.
Do we understand each other?
DBJKAJ 5 months ago
@DBJKAJ LOL They BOTH had to be hit with the whip to the extreme where as Ruffian was only ever whipped 3 times in one race where she was injured and still set a stakes record!
Citation has some of the slowest times i have seen! he had to be pushed and still his times are wack!
Affirmed... dont even get me started! the only race he has faster than Ruffian is the 1 1/2mile race! and Ruffian was choked in that race!
You are the one living a fantasy!
Zenyatta would finish last in this feild!
RuffianQueenOfRacing 5 months ago
um wheres secretariat
Wolftent561 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Wolftent561
Quote from Wolftent56: "um wheres secretariat"
Answer: He finished behind "Onion". Any more questions you need answers too?
DBJKAJ 5 months ago
@AlbertosaurusTX
No, were not kidding you. Secretariat was inconsistent. He'd break two track records and then lose to mediocre horses like "Onion" How can a fucking horse set a world record of 2:24 flat and then lose to a fucking horse like Onion? He's considered garbage to some. You don't set track records and then lose to horses like "Onion".
I'll buy into the "abscess in the mouth" theory when he lost the Wood memorial but losing against horseflesh like "Onion" is inexcusable.
westinniles 5 months ago
sick asss race yeahh zenyatta all the wayy really good video men keep it going
yankee3010 5 months ago
No way Cigar is fourth. He NEVER rode the rail like he did here.
ramairluvr 6 months ago
@ramairluvr
No, Cigar" would of finished dead last if he didn't ride the rail the whole trip. Most overrated horse in the history of our sport. He was beating up on an inferior horseflesh out here. Cigar finally went out west and got his ass handed to him.
westinniles 5 months ago
Zennyatta was an amazing racehorse, and just because 'back then" all the other horses would have won, doesn't mean they always get the spot light. Zenyatta was un- defeated in all the races she raced in.
sagemakayla 6 months ago
@sagemakayla no she was not undefeated! but Ruffian was undefeated! no chance zenyatta could hold to rachel alexandra let alone ruffian!!!
RuffianQueenOfRacing 6 months ago
Cigar ran faster times than any horse in this field 2:00 min 1-1/4 over 5 times no other horse in this field ran 2:00 min in any 1-1/4 race.
3232rams 6 months ago
what about secratariet??
Luneytoon121 6 months ago
Zenyatta is a great horse- but Ruffian would have killed the field. I believe it was in Ruffian's mentality that no matter what happens- never let another horse get in front of her. It sounds silly but look at hose she runs.
Supatsu 6 months ago
RA doesn't even belong on this list. I'm sure this race is at 1 1/4? RA would get crushed at this distance.
stivosimz 6 months ago
i think zenyatta is a great racehorse........but come on!, look at the other horses racing in this simulation,! i don't think she would have beaten most of those horses!, but thats just my opinion :):)
65guitargirl 6 months ago
No way would Barabaro and Ruffian have done that badly I think those two would of been 1st and 2nd probaby with Ruffian 1st...
TheSneeakyNinjas 6 months ago
Cigar fourth? I doubt it.
GERMANYFrankie 6 months ago
I love Zenyatta...But she wouldn't fair to well against Smarty Jones or Affirmed..
She was an amazing horse...The two years she raced in the classic..There
wasn't alot of talent in either race...There were a few good ones but no stand out
PlaYah1979 6 months ago
Where the fuck is Man O War?!
CHEVYedsf 6 months ago
@msjumpingqueenful why would you say that? why would you wish for any horse to get hurt? idiot.
Chut619 6 months ago
If you want to set it up for Zenyatta to win, you have to leave Secretariat out.
mmaderia 6 months ago
Wheres secretariat?!
daedae456100 6 months ago
not a chance that ruffian was coming in sixth place, she'd have won!
Erbblume 6 months ago
Barbaro <3<3
Alii131 6 months ago
What about Secratariet and like man o war!! But if this race were real It would be the worlds best race EVER!
wolfwonders1 7 months ago
Secretariat ? Man o War ? Seattle Slew ???
1missSmarty1 7 months ago
aww where's secritariat?
Bubbles25454323245 7 months ago
ZENYATTA!!! Our Queen
dramphyr 7 months ago
Ruffian would have won, once in the lead no one ever got infront of her! this is an insult to her memory! absolutely disgusting!
RuffianQueenOfRacing 7 months ago
U can tell a computer used only numbers-- because Zenyatta is the biggest horse on this fictional track, her stride is therefore the longest. To a computer, Zenyatta will always win. It can't factor in competitive nature of each animal... if it could, i think the results would be different.
kmab4ever 7 months ago
@kmab4ever It also didn't factor in what the jockeys would have done.
Pepper9873 7 months ago
Big Brown could not beat Rachel Alexander.
I think a lot of people are missing the point.... there's only 9 spots... this simulation was just a specific group of horses... not intended to say these are the "best".
I've seen a simulation with ManO, Secretariat, Spectaular Bid, Cigar, Seattle Slew, Seabiscuit, Affirm and Alydar.. people were not happy with that outcome either.
dravenousone 7 months ago
@dravenousone The best in the group is Euffian even if big red or man o war was in it Ruffian wouldn't let a horse pass her even if it killed her
johnofohu123 7 months ago
... gay...
iloveCASH100 7 months ago
If only Secretariat was in this race.... THEY WOULD ALL GET OWNED
And Lost In the Fog would come second of course :)
katnjas 7 months ago
@katnjas Really Ruffian would beat big red and man o war would just be with big red youshould learn more facts before you talk shit
johnofohu123 7 months ago
@johnofohu123 Man O wars time was much MUCH faster than ruffians faster time, Secretariat was faster than MAn O war so i doubt that.
I think YOU should learn YOUR facts before YOU talk shit.
katnjas 7 months ago
@katnjas Ruffian never even ran in the rces with big red first off her times were best and man o war was better then big red for sure you need to learn MORE about horse racing
johnofohu123 7 months ago
@johnofohu123 Mate. Dont start this shit. My father Owns a 3 year old champion of Australia okay. I AM in the racing business and I know Secretariats owner Penny okay. His times Owned Man O Wars times. Yes he was fast, but no fast enough to beat Big Red. Cant handle the truth? Get Over it and Get a life,
katnjas 7 months ago
@katnjas Well guess what i live in AMERICA i know the best i am friends with the owners of animal kingdom and zenyatta i know the best and Ruffian my friend is the best even look her up you seem to know SHIT about horse racing
johnofohu123 7 months ago
@katnjas Your a retard you should look up the best horse ever aka Ruffian
JessicaTheWolf 7 months ago
@katnjas You need to learn more about horse racing my friend
wolfyyy1 7 months ago
@wolfyyy1 And I think you need a life. Fuck off cunt. We all have our own opinions.
katnjas 7 months ago
@katnjas I have a life unlike you your a fucking slinky that lives in a fucking dirty tampon you skank
wolfyyy1 7 months ago
@wolfyyy1 I have a life unlike you. If you had a life, you wouldnt be sending me this message. I lvoe my haters <3
katnjas 7 months ago
@katnjas I do have a life i go to collage SMART ASS your the fucking one going on videos saying shit that are not true and if you have a life why the fuck do you live in a dirty tampon!
wolfyyy1 7 months ago
@wolfyyy1 I live in a dirty tampon cos I can :) If you where the age you say you are, you would have ended this ages ago. We all have out opinions now fuck off and go live the life you say you have.
katnjas 7 months ago
@katnjas Your a fail and everyone agrees c:
wolfyyy1 7 months ago
@Thank you. I love my haters.
katnjas 7 months ago
@katnjas your father owns a 3 year old champion? my trainer owns a 2 year old champion! i work with racehorses in australia, i have videos of some of them on my channel.
lets bring out the times of Man o war and Ruffian shall we?
5 1/2 furlong: Man o War 1:05.60, Ruffian 1:02.80, 6 furlong Man o War 1.11.20, Ruffian 1:08.60, 1 1/8 mile, Man o War 1:49.20, Ruffian 1:47.80, 1mile Man o War 1:35.80, Ruffian 1:34.40, 1 1/2 mile Man o War 2:28.80 Ruffian 2:27.80!
Ruffians slowest is still faster!!
RuffianQueenOfRacing 7 months ago
@RuffianQueenOfRacing Fuckign hell. Get over yourself, the 3 year old racer We own is faster than all thoise times in his breezing. Let alone his races. End of convo, We all have our opinions. accept mine
katnjas 7 months ago
@katnjas LOL whats his name? if hes such a champion?
oh right, he most likely doesnt exist! and if he does he most likely isnt much of a racehorse at all!
ile tell you my trainers champion "Private Chat" the only race he hasnt placed in was a race that he shattered his hoof!
anyways, you tell me to get over myself when i gave you FACTS after you said "man o war time was much faster then ruffians faster time" when really, his fastest time wasnt even faster then ruffians slowest =P
RuffianQueenOfRacing 7 months ago
@RuffianQueenOfRacing Kenos Pushout. you most likely havnt heard of him like I havnt heard of Private chat. Keno hasnt lost any race he has run in and I am not gonna reply to a comment you post as Im not aqn immature fuck and im not going to go on with this convasation
katnjas 7 months ago
@katnjas you know whats HILARIOUS!? the fact that NO australian horse racing sites have that horse on them! if hes such a champion then he is bound to be on ONE of them, but hes on NONE!
also the other HILARIOUS thing is that you call me an"immature fuck" and swear and throw insults when i simply gave you facts after you were to stupid to look them up before you shot your mouth off!
YOU are the "immature fuck" and YOU need to "get over yourself"
ruffians slowest is still faster then man o war
RuffianQueenOfRacing 7 months ago
@RuffianQueenOfRacing Just cos you cant find him doesnt mean he isnt a champion. Maybe Ruffina was faster than Man O war, but not Secretariat
katnjas 7 months ago
@katnjas no it just means he doesnt exist =P
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ruffian had faster short distance and he had faster long distance there for niether of them were better then the other!
secretariat had 3 seconds faster 1 1/2 mile and ruffian had a 4 second faster 5 1/2 furlong, had faster 6 furlong by over 2 seconds and a faster 7 furlong by over 2 seconds and she also beat one of his miles by 1 1/2 seconds, also beat one of his 1 1/8 miles by 2 seconds, so you cant say she wasnt faster!
RuffianQueenOfRacing 7 months ago
@RuffianQueenOfRacing You do realise. My father bred him in england and brought him back to Aus. His first 5 races were there.
katnjas 7 months ago
@katnjas and you do realise that if he was brought to australia then he would show up on the sites here, and you do realise that he doesnt even show up on any horse racing sites! guess he doesnt exist or raced in such poor races that my dog could have won!
RuffianQueenOfRacing 7 months ago
@RuffianQueenOfRacing Once again. Just cos you cant find him doesnt mean he doesnt exist. Back off okay. I am not going to argue with you anymore as I have a life and im gonan go live it.
katnjas 7 months ago
@katnjas so it just means hes not a racehorse!
and i LOVE how you said ruffian wasnt faster than secretariat, then i gave you times and you just shut up about it! LOL sounds like someone "cant handle the truth" as you might say =P
RuffianQueenOfRacing 7 months ago
@RuffianQueenOfRacing You are wrong... Again! Im just sick and tired of yourcommetns. We all have our opinions. Accept mine and face the fact Secretariat was faster. I would bother replying as im not goin to reply.
katnjas 7 months ago
@katnjas shall i repeat?
secretariat had 3 seconds faster 1 1/2 mile and ruffian had a 4 second faster 5 1/2 furlong, had faster 6 furlong by over 2 seconds and a faster 7 furlong by over 2 seconds and she also beat one of his miles by 1 1/2 seconds, also beat one of his 1 1/8 miles by 2 seconds, so you cant say she wasnt faster!
obviously YOU cant handle the truth little one, run along now back to your fake racehorse
RuffianQueenOfRacing 7 months ago
ok they got it right with Zenyatta winning, but i know ruffian should have gotten at least 3rd. rachel A shouldve been up there with the top too. idk about where the rest would be, but ruffian and rachel A deserve better.
LopeForestLope 7 months ago
@LopeForestLope YOUR DUMB zenyatta wouldn't even touch Ruffian not even big red learn some shit
johnofohu123 7 months ago
@johnofohu123 What is your problem? I wasnt trying to get into a fight with anyone. I love Zenyatta and Ruffian but was that really nessecary? Seriously get an attitude adjustment. Chill.
LopeForestLope 7 months ago
Where is Seattle Slew? It's all in good fun, but I can't help but wonder why so many great horses were excluded.
BarbarosDerby132 7 months ago
Seabiscut NEVER stayed in the back. and who on earth would leave a hole the size of texas for a frieght train like zenyatta. DONT agree with this video at all
MISSIY333 7 months ago
wow the simulation is bad. All of those horses are great but there were all in seprate times no one really knows who wood win. You guys r fighting about wheither secretariat wood win but the thing is the horse cood have a bad day they all r amazing it dosent matter who wood win they r all the best in there own way
seabastian13 7 months ago
son of a beep! I had bets of ol' Biscuit but then here comes zenny.... i jsut lost 9 bucks XD
TheDragonLake 7 months ago
This is horrible animation. Rachel Alexandra is a bay, not a chestnut. And Seabiscuit didn't have any markings -_-
marrylegs28 7 months ago
Cigar ran 2:00 min and under 3 times at a mile and a quarter,. no horse in this field ran that fast. on there best days according to the times, cigar beats them all.
3232rams 7 months ago
Ruffian ran one of the weakest campaigns on record. She stayed in New York all her life. Ran one race outside her home state (AKA: ran next door in the state of New Jersey).
...and when she ran against males, she died trying to beat a Kentucky Derby champion.
We all like to "worship" the ones that left us in their prime (James Dean, Marilyn Monroe, etc), but Ruffian ran against cupcakes. The only "legitimate" runner she ever faced was Foolish Pleasure.
DBJKAJ 7 months ago
@DBJKAJ I honestly can't speak for the crop of fillies she raced against but you can't argue track times which she equaled or set records everytime out and all but 1 still stand today, and she did that while being held back most of the time. She would have ran away from Foolish Pleasure down the stretch.
priscs 7 months ago
I'm not into racing, but secretariat no doubt, would win. It's a fact he truly was different, with a larger heart. Making him run longer distances, he IS the best.
psychojoker131 7 months ago
Wow RUFFIAN would of won by many lenghs if it was REAL
johnofohu123 8 months ago
I think and feel Ruffian should have won. I wonder what factors are used in their algorithms to determine how each virtual horse runs. Definitely should have been Ruffian.
Gayuma 8 months ago
im reading some of these comments, and according to %99 if Secretariat was in the race, he would have won, and with the race as it is, Ruffian would have won! which is true on both accounts!
RuffianQueenOfRacing 8 months ago
Rachel Alexandra, running with Ruffian?!! Get real, that couldn't happen.
horsesrotflol 8 months ago
Ruffian goes from 1st to 7th in the final 1/16? Truly laughable.
priscs 8 months ago
Ruffian! No!
ApacheSummer223 8 months ago
Ruffian would have won. That is all that I have to say. In case you didn't know, in every single race that she ran her jockey was choking her to the wire b/c he was afraid that she would hurt herself from going so fast. Zenyatta may be a great racehorse but Ruffian wouldn't have let anyone past her, even if it killed her. I don't think that all of those horses would have slowed down and just fallen back like that.
NovaEventing 8 months ago
BULL SHITTT!!!!!!!!!!1 I LOVEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE ZENYATTA BUT BULL SHITTTT
ZenyattaLuver4ever 8 months ago
whoa thats sooo cool :) yay go Zenyatta and Seabiscuit!! Seabiscuit didn't place but i love him anyway :)
HorseshoeStables11 8 months ago
@HorseshoeStables11 Ruffian would kick secretariats ass too
johnofohu123 8 months ago
@johnofohu123 wait what does that have to do with my comment?
HorseshoeStables11 7 months ago
@HorseshoeStables11 Which comment?
johnofohu123 7 months ago
@johnofohu123 you replied to my comment with "ruffian would kick secretariats ass too" but i said something completely different from that.
HorseshoeStables11 7 months ago
@storytime98 they were to scared it would show secretariat whooping all those horses asse's on the track thats why they didnt put sec on there. :) but dont mind me ruffian would keep up with sec but he would win no doubt.
TheExoticAnimal 8 months ago
Rachel wouldn't give in that easy esspecially as a 3yo when no horse could ever get past her
gallopracerfan 8 months ago
Am I the only one who thought Man O War should have been in here?
MangoRoX87 8 months ago
That would never happen in my opinion. She is a great racehorse, but if this was a real race, she'd maybe finish in the top three if she got lucky.
Lovinghorses1218 8 months ago
im sorry but im disappointed in the horses chosen, and granted Ruffian won only 11 races and Zen 19, but if Ruffians owners werent greedy and hadnt raced Foolish Pleasure, no doubt would she have gone on to win 19 or 20 or 21 races. she definately wouldve came close to man o wars record. and really? RA last??its very cool how we can do things like this, but no.if they want to make it fair, do all TC winners in one, then maybe champ. 3 yos in one, derby winners.. then have a race of the winners
tmustang94 9 months ago
Zenyatta is truly gifted and loved, but she seriously outran CITATION and RUFFIAN?!?! But she could've just killed everyone else ;D
ruffianrulz 9 months ago
@ruffianrulz agreed, there is NO WAY that zenyatta could even touch ruffian or citation!
RuffianQueenOfRacing 9 months ago
you just did that cause you want to fool people Zenyatta is amazing BUT NOT THAT AMAZING!!
Traceismyhorse01 9 months ago
@storytime98 I agree!!!!
Cowgirlbaby18 9 months ago
This was either programmed by the ignorant or it is simply Pimlico pandering to the uninformed. I could go on and on, but just to give one example Cigar, as a 5yr. old, on May 13, 1995 won the Pimlico Special at 1 3/16 (Gr. 1) in an EASY 1:53 3/5, despite running the first 1/2 mile in a slow 48sec. What evidence is there the Zenyatta could have run a sub-1:54 1 3/16 at Pimlico!?
711ATOM 10 months ago
Ruffian will always be Nr. 1. But i think Zenyatta is the second Ruffian :D
Beatrice00745 10 months ago