why Mr. Farage want get out of EU? maybe he wants to have great and rich United Kingdom like UK was in history? UK is known for connections with the US and making big money on this, so how UK got into EU? British people wanted EU or not? and why Mr.Farage is so afraid of Germany? is he living the past? or is he jealous of German companys and production and German money? if somebody could explain this to me - Thank You :) I'm not EU socialist nor Mr.Farage supporter, I'm just asking and thinking
everybody says in EU there is democracy "problem" (right or wrong I don't know), excuse me but in China there is no democracy and their government does have too much money that they can help EU and US in debt crisis, democracy or no democracy it's not that much a problem for making money as China showed us (sorry for my English, I'm trying hard... :) so where is the problem? imho export, EU export is too small
about Greece it's not Euro currency problem, it's "people are often greedy and not thinking right for future" problem of debt, in US there are rich and poor states just like diffrent countries in EU and there were bailouts in US, the real problem is how to get out of huge debt and not getting in for future debt? by having creative companys and production in Europe, how to create great companys in EU? give people freedom in charge and create their future inside EU by stopping worthless paperwork!
it's not about politics that much as people think,it's about technology and why is China getting REALLY RICH? because they produce almost everything and they try to produce their own ideas, if EU wants to be rich there must be diffrent education in EU countries that will promote free thinking and new technology that EU companys could export and make money, that is how Germany, US, Japan and now China got rich, we need European companys like Microsoft, Apple, Sony etc., we only have great EU cars
imho they (Farage and his friends) don't get one simple thing, if Europe will not be in Union, they could be against each other, this was for centuries in Europe and there were many wars in Europe, maybe Europe should be in Union but in charge of right-wing politicians (right now there are socialists in charge of EU, am I right?), and what about challenging huge countries like USA or China? small European countries can't compete, everybody who played games like Civilization will know it all ;)
@neohideo the argument that If European countries aren't in a union together that they will end up fighting each other doesn't make logical sense. NATO worked to defend Europe in the cold war and europeans have had a major change of opinion about war after the end of the second world war so I view the argument of them going at each other if they are not in a union a false argument since it doesn't match reality.
I hope the Euro falls. It's brought nothing other than misery here in The Netherlands. Career politicians claim the GDP has steadily increased but life has become much more expensive since we've had the Euro. A bread used to be 1 gulden 50 cent ( 68 eurocent ) and now I pay 1 euro 30, almost double. For 100 gram of ham I used to pay 2 Dutch guilder and now I pay 2 Euro for the same, more than double the price since 1 Eur = 2,2 GLD. Glass of beer 1 guilder 50, now 2 Euro almost triple the price.
@schapiee but hasn´t your income trippled as well ? ... no ? Strange.. Here in Germany i think they just exchanged 1 : 1. Exept for the wages of course.
My net wage increased by 20% but that's of no use when prices has doubled for most products. Germany is totally different; I visit Germany 3 times a year, mostly Düsseldorf, Köln, and Oberausen. Germany is much cheaper than Holland with almost anything. Hotel stay Düsseldorf around 40 Euro and with 4 persons it's just 10 pp. Schnitzel mit kartofln und salat with half a liter Weiss bier around € 9,00 and in Holland around € 17,00 ( including the beer ) etc.
@schapiee Well, that makes sense. Holidays in the Netherlands where incredible expensive for me, i thought it was due to being in Bergen Aan Zee... However, we know whats happening.. And still german prices doubled, too. At this rate, in 6 - 8 years i will not be able to live from my income..
Not only is Bergen aan Zee expensive, so is Zandvoort aan Zee, Scheveningen, Egmond,
Amsterdam city center ( Rembrant, Leidse, Spui, etc ), the entire province of Zeeland, etc.
I'm a Dutch citizen ( born Indonesia, adopted by Dutch parents ), and having lived here for 28 years ( I'm 34 but lived 6 years in the US ) and I have seen the chances. I want European countries to be friends and trade with each other but no political union.
@musicomplex as I recall, the deutsch mark to euro ration was 2 - 1, I know that , because Bulgaria is in a currency board with the deutsch mark , which made a 1:1 tie between bulgarian lev and deutsch mark, you guys went for the euro, currency board still stays in Bulgaria, yet 1 lev is still around 0.5 euro. But , then again , I guess german salaries increased since that time :D
@climenttp the 1:1 ratio was the inofficial way of dealing with it ;-) Of course you got 1:2, but within two years, at least in many places, they took out their old Deutsche Mark price signs and simply putting a € were once was DM. And guess what, on the sales side its a doubling of income! Sadly prices are not cheated on the small end but pushed higher from above... But guess what happened to wages and saleries? Nothing. Public sector fucked, big players smiling. No surprise ;-)
The 2nd presentation took an eternity (2x faster to read his paper), but there was one idea that wasn't discussed enough, which may be the solution for Greece: Creating a domestic currency so all domestic contracts would automatically be in Drachma. This is what happens already in spontaneous way: People bartering and writing each other IOU's. That's what you really need a currency for. It could coexist with Euro, but only if the Greeks press it through against the EMU.
Repeatedly the word Socialism was used for the centralization of power in Europe. It might be that it is something in the direction of Stalinism, but that was anything but socialism, no matter how much Stalin called it that way. The critique of the left in Europe to hold on with all force to the Euro and centralization is valid. They have made themselves to the idiots who could best sell the undemocratic reign of the European finance oligarchy to the people. If it's an ism then it is feudalism.
@rewtnode If you read through the documents of feudal contracts you'll see that technically peasants had more rights and freedoms then than modern Europeans have now. Feudalism would be a step up for the Eurozone.The Eurozone is more like a corporatist, oligarch run welfare state which relies on the productivity of others to prop up their economy.
Fiscal Union of the 12.5 trillion Euro+EU economy can re-start local manufacturing (part-time+full time) w/ just 3 trillion Euros :Wireless Broadband continent-wide+Solar-Wind-Wave-hybrid-electric-plug-in battery-fuel-cell-fusion+its advanced ELECTRIC POWER GRID SOLUTIONS :EU must be writing the algorithms/code+manufacturing locally the tools for practical daily applications,and with the best natural and organic foods,cooking oils,fruits and vegetables=the balance. financialtools1.blogspot.com
the basic problem with the austrian school is that it is not rigorous enough with regard to definitions of the variables
and this is inherently the problem with all extant economic theory
the attempt to quantify something that is inherently complex - if this attempt does not, from the standpoint of its very design, embrace the inherent complexity of the subject, error is invariably the result.
but at least it comes closer to this goal of liberty than any other system except the American Sys
@diogeneslaertius666 the essential problem of all economic theory is passing off crude synthetic values for what is a real world thing/event
until such data is driven by rigorous real-time values, we cannot even begin to use it and yet we do - to the detriment of all save but a few who control the system itself (Lord Acton said it best...)
we must greet the synthetic quantification of the individual with hostility until a robust level of fidelity can be assured
@diogeneslaertius666 the same problem exists in all discrete sciences from medicine to physics
and really the only form of progress (which fucko here would know if he bothered to read my work at all before attacking me like a ferret on crack) in the sciences that is possible takes up the form of refining the ability to sense, detect and the rationalize observational data...
but hey w/e
im just an "insert insult here" - because civilization has gone to the PIGS @SquirrelFromGradLife
As the professor pointed out in his speech the Euro crisis is one of lobbyist banker interests and the international corporatist oligarchy they are intertwined with and NOT one of sovereign default. As he pointed out: a default would have been preferable for both Greece and for the European taxpayers who have to foot the bill for the bailout in favor of the "bankster elite" or the super rich .
We are being led around by the nose for the profit of the 1% super rich plutochrats. Disgusting!
please keep reloading for a "fresher " update for those who search that way. Just note the date of the conference....so much good info. in this. I think "they" are waiting to include the United States in the overall "solution". Indeed, a new world order. So Greece can save us all. By defaulting,,,of course, unless they use the greek default to sell it worldwide. Who knows what they are going to try.. Just Stopping is not an option for them. A constant battle.
Hankel accidentally says "deflationary" policies are a disaster (at about 22min) - exactly what we need - he means "inflationtary" as he goes on to elaborate.
If th UN recognizes the EU as a state, does that mean there will be a single EU team in the 2016 Olympics?
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That would be cool. EU versus US. What an epic battle! Like the old USSR versus US battles of yesteryear...... heck the EU can even use the hammer-and-sickle since it's so similar to the old EUSSR
@Bernd1964 Very well said sir. I would add only that humanity must come together in complete unity and declare ourselves free from these master manipulators once and for all. We must continuously expose them until the world clearly sees the entirety of their evil. Justice must be brought to bare onto these evil persons. My gut instinct tells me we are very close to declaring victory! Keep up the good fight until that day arrives...
Banks are encouraged to gamble because of government bailouts.
They were also encouraged to buy government bonds, which crowded out private investment. The governments wasted the money and cannot stay solvent much longer. So what's the real problem here?
... would have been paniked more than they do now. Greece would have been bankrupt without seeïng it coming. And if State goes, the rest will follow, and EU would have been less strong than it is now. Ifthere is corruption, and that will be solved, that country will be stronger than ever before by stability ! Greece has everything that it must have, to be a big strong value in the EUROZONE.
"We wouldn't never had, never, a euro crisis without the so called rescue plans of the EURO". Respect to your meaning, dear professor, but if there was no rescue before the impact now by the EU, there would have been a bigger disaster for Greece and for the Europeans, by beïng totally bankrupt and not rescuable anymore, on behalve of the corruption !
"Greece must have gone to his old currency". The EU support each member State, and if Greece would have been stepped out of the EU, the people ...
everything in me cries out for liberty, it is that very voice of liberty that bade me speak and which bids me even now to continue to speak, even if the truth is harsh and falls on deaf ears.
re-upload huh.... well again I have to say that a gold back currency standard is completely insane especially if you have any interest in controlling inflation and stem the tide against rampant speculation against any currency in the future.
Someone on the previously uploaded video made a remark that I got it all backwards. Then he proceeded to contradict himself. If the price of gold changes in a gold backed currency then the value of that currency must change. Higher gold prices=inflation.
@SquirrelFromGradLife >>>"gold back currency standard is completely insane if you have any interest in controlling inflation"
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In the US when we had a gold-backed standard, the inflation held close to 0% from 1800 to 1910. A dollar in 1800 had almost the same purchasing power in 1910. It was held constant
.
Next compare a 1910 dollar to now. In 1910 it bought a week of food but now only buys a candy bar. Fiat currency loses value cause it's not tied to anything. It floats and is unstable.
@electrictroy2010 Are you fucking kidding me with this republican bullshit? You're just a lying piece of shit and your argument is completely retarded.. with one sentence you have just wiped out 100 years of American history right there and you believe us to buy that bullshit you fucking retard? So the Civil war never happened and neither did the horrible inflation before during and after. War of 1812 gone...
@kevinz1985 I believe Mr. Bagus is German. If you're referring to the so-called "Austrian school of economics" then I have to disappoint you in that there's absolutely no empirical evidence so support most of their theories. Even their stands on any kind of intervention will result in inflation taken directly from the monetarists are being wiped out as we speak. The economy tends to move more and more in a Keynesian way and the market forces reacting in a known macro economic way.
@SquirrelFromGradLife I'm not sure I understood your point about inflation; how are you going to inflate when you can't create "money" out of thin air ?
What theories were you referring to exactly ? Because one of them has been recently proven correct by History, yet again, when they predicted the crisis of 2008 years before it happened.
But where were the great monetarists and keynesians to warn us before 2008 ? and before 2000 ? and 1971 ? and 1929 ? etc.
@kevinz1985 Inflation IS the creation of Money out of thin air! Inflation is the debasement , or dilution of the currency.
Think about it this way. If there is a finite number of cars, houses, diamonds, gold, oil, etc, and an ever expanding supply of MONEY, what will the prices do? Increase! This is inflation. They PRINT Money they can't get us to agree to pay for in taxes, so inflation is a true hidden tax. Inflation has spiked tremendously, but the FED plays games like ignoring food and energy
@LAZERBEEMofTRUTH First of all there's NOT a finite number of cars, houses etc. and secondly it's NOT correct that in an open economy expanding the money supply will automatically lead to ricing prices.
Further more the CPI is a well established standard for calculating the actual inflation rate in an economy for an average person and it's NOT correct that food and energy cost are not included as you somehow seem to claim..
@SquirrelFromGradLife So there are infinite cars and houses huh? Are you on Crack? Be honest. There are a FININTE Number of both houses and cars, we will never have an infinite supply of either. And yes, it is accurate that an expanding supply of money will create inflation. Core CPI does not include food or energy.
@kevinz1985 utter bullshit.. the Austrian economic is NOT in any way shape or form rooted in reality nor is it derived from any kind of real time economic data. It is merely a set of very loosely defined assertions on how the market reacts to certain influences but it is NEVER backed up in any form by any empirical economic data and ends most often in the answer inflation. Inflation which we don't see in any economic data and when challenged the answer is "your definition of inflation is wrong"
@kevinz1985 actually every economist you could ask were saying this is going to explode all along. People you see in the news media like the moronic lying piece of shit Peter Schiff is NOT an economist.
Everyone the knows anything about economy will tell you that the stock market is nothing more than gambling and that derivatives are gambling on crack. The worst part about the derivatives market is that it was completely deregulated in 2000 and now totaling 60-80 trillion in liabilities!
"actually every economist you could ask were saying this is going to explode all along."
Are you referring to the crisis of 08 there ?
"Everyone the knows anything about economy will tell you that the stock market is nothing more than gambling and that derivatives are gambling on crack[...]"
@kevinz1985 My point is "we, and when I say we I mean America, have created the ultimate economic disaster that will wipe out anything of value around the entire world economy with the deregulated derivatives market. You think it's bad when some US banks go belly up and a trillion and change is needed to bail those morons out? Well how about if things go really bad then? It was just a fraction of those 60-80 trillion in liabilities that went bad, so what if just 20% went bad?
@SquirrelFromGradLife No empirical evidence? How about Peter Schiff and Ron Paul, both students of Austrian economics, both accurately predicted the financial collapse that douche bags like you said "would never happen"?
@LAZERBEEMofTRUTH Peter Schiff..LOL students...LOL.. Peter Schiff predicted fuckall. Now you can't even use the word prediction correctly and apparently you do not know the definition of the word prediction. He started his bullshit years before the crash in fact it was more than two years before the meltdown he started saying what everybody knew was going to happen and what happens every five to seven years. Spare me your bullshit about Austrian economics..
@SquirrelFromGradLife Ok you are obviously a Leftist, radical idiot who's partisan walls of recognition impair your ability to see the truth, and the Forrest from the trees. Schiff, and Paul were going on and on about the product of the Business Cycle in 2002-03, and I sat there laughing at them thinking they were crazy back then. You can mock these people all you want with your liberal brainwashed mind, but reality will smack your ass hard in the 401K before you realize you're just wrong.
@LAZERBEEMofTRUTH Further more Peter Schiff is using the tried old way of republican politics of lying, making stuff up, manipulating and blaming somebody else. He deals in derivatives and the CFMA complete deregulation in 2000 created hos company and his job. He knows deregulation caused the economic collapse by creating HUGE losses and systemic bad assets threatening the entire economy because he dealt in the very derivatives the brought down AIG, Lehman, Bear Sterns etc.
@SquirrelFromGradLife Do you realize that Schiff is not a politician, he's an investor. He does not make shit up for political gain, he' owns Euro Pacific Capital, and his job is to make money investing in markets around the world. If YOU were living in reality, YOU would know that you cant just "make shit up" and "Manipulate and blame" your way to being a stressful investor. You're either right about shit, and profitable, or you're not talking about it on business channel TV programs.
@LAZERBEEMofTRUTH There you go lying again, or perhaps you're just a complete moron, and chances are you're both at this point because as we all known Peter Schiff IS actually a politician. He spent a lot of money trying to get elected last term as a republican. So when you say he's NOT a politician then that's LIE. It's another LIE that he's "investing in market around the world" because he is merely a hedgefund manager investing in American derivatives!
@LAZERBEEMofTRUTH Further more Peter Schiff wasn't right about shit as you call it. It's hilarious that you somehow believe successful business people can't just make shit up, well look at Bernie Madoff and all the other people which turned out to be crooks. They were as you call it successful people for years all in the media and according to you they had to be right then. Well they weren't.
Peter Schiff knows that the very derivatives he made his millions from were to blame and NOT the Fed!
I delt in those very derisiveness as well. I know several people who worked for Bear Sterns and Lehman Brothers. The problem was that risk was incentivized in the form of artificially low interest rates. These low rates, created a desire for those companies to make more money (you know, growth). That desire, caused them to produce ever more risky mortgage products, which built on the cycle of house prices by adding people with no business buying, into the market.
@LAZERBEEMofTRUTH and I am not going to waste any more time on your pathetic bullshit because apparently you do not subscribe to the same reality as everyone else. A theory has to be founded on real empirical economic data and you would know that if you had any idea how science works but Austrian economics is in no way shape or form based on empirical data at all. Peter Schiffs claims of massive inflation after the bailouts in 2008 resulted in 0.03% inflation in 2009! How about that..LOL
@SquirrelFromGradLife I'm glad you don't want to waste any more of my time. FYI inflation in 2009 was low because we experienced DEFLATION for much of the year as a result of a retracting economy trying to correct itself from a binge of inflation driven debt, which it is still choking on, and will continue to do so until you're actually smart enough to "get it".
@SquirrelFromGradLife And what empirical data, is the science of mathematics founded on? Or is mathematics not a science? You can't prove Fermat's last theorem by observation. But nevertheless, it has been proved. Economics is ultimately the science of human action. Human beings are not billiard balls. We are acting beings. We act using means to achieve ends. Working out the consequences is a deductive science, not an empirical one. Our behavior can not be modeled by differential equations.
@diogeneslaertius666 So you blocked me..LOL.. How fucking pathetic could a person be.. I have not even made one single comment on one of your videos or on your channel page and you block me because I have the audacity to call you're pathetic bullshit ramblings what they are... bullshit...incoherent bullshit ramblings from a person with really bad standards of evidence..
@xleroc i think the austrians et al. are at least closer to the probabilistic curve because they take as inputs these Inherently unquantifiable subjects
in fact i think codifying liberty must take up a similar form as to the one here generally being addressed
i think Einsteins commentary on the general theory of relativity is sufficient here, in that we must be on our guard against the idea that the constructs of synthetic information or language are more than mere approximations
@xleroc What..LOL.. are you kidding me? You do know the difference between the substance of a mathematical proof and the fragile nature barely tangible statistical analysis of empirical economic data that support economic theories that rest on pinpoint definitions. Economics is nothing more than the study of the man made social structure that describes the creation of value. If you remove the whole notion of actual empirical data supporting your argument you're left with NOTHING!
@SquirrelFromGradLife hows is a schoolium structured around behaviorism and its inherently unquantifiability, which calls for a discrete analysis of existence and insists on an allowance for human nature, somehow averse to aggregating empirical data?
it isnt, not in any case.
its fundamental precepts, like that of any discrete science are not held a priori true on the basis of speculation, but for observable, causative Reasons.
@kevinz1985 Ive seen an interview with him once or twice and even a mini lecture if my memory serves me correct. At the Mises website the store has his book. Jeffery Tucker i think interviewed him on the misesmedia(the youtube channel for Mises) about his book as well. I forget what its called but it has Euro mentioned in the title. I aint watched the video yet, im only on the 9th minute but i recognised the guy straight away... If he impresses me here i might go buy that book ^_^
@Seano71 - since time immemmorial. Austrian economics is another name for REAL economics - you know, a real science, like maths and physics. What we have today is Keynesian economics - that is, how to dabble in the markets and their currencies so that, analagously, 1+1 do not make 2 anymore, and a kilo sometimes becomes 3 grams. This way, the global bankers will end up with EVERYTHING, including your balls and those of your grandchildren...
@europarl so you want a gold standard and someone like Peter Schiff is your idol? You know all these guys do be on the Alex Jones show, that should prove they are loonies for a start. How can Austrian economics prevent a meltdown of the system? How can it prevent a deflationary spiral? How can it grow the economy on a gold standard? How can businesses gain finance to grow and expand? You know, businesses like Google and Macintosh back when they were smaller and needed credit to expand?
@Seano71 - you have been derailed. I'll just tell you that in the paradigm of lies and deception almost much of everything crucial is topsy-turvy. You'll need to research a lot and discover how the media works and how the structure is set up - and don't think others are stupid when the joke is on you. You've a long way ahead of you. Start by reading the classic of all classics on this subject: Murray N. Rothbard's "What Has Government Done to Our Money" - just google it and read the pdf book.
@UKIPmeps I know all about Austrian economics and I used to believe in all those conspiracy theories. Listen buddy, its all non-sense. You've failed to answer any of my questions. The problem is the laissez faire, deregulated model of free marketing. We for decades had an economy in the west funded by a housing and construction bubble, while millions of jobs were outsourced. We've had mass immigration without at least a debate about it either. We've got many serious problems nowadays.
Housing didn't fund anything. If you did know about Austrian economics you would know this.
Bubbles are created when you provide phony credit unbacked by real savings. You can only have this dis-coordination with intervention by a state-granted monopoly.
The only regulation that can come to bear on this problem is that of the market: people withdrawing their own money from this corrupt system.
@deadballo yes it did, housing prices were rising and people were under the illusion they were wealthier than they really were. There was a housing construction boom unregulated and let go out of control hiring a great deal of men who are mostly now out of work. Phoney credit? What credit isn't phoney? Spain had a bubble in bullion after they conquered the Mayas. They didn't understand that money was all about supply, demand and confidence.
Again, you would do well to understand the school of economics you claim to and have derided.
What credit isn't phony? The answer is when the lending institution must save or borrow in order to lend, unlike the ECB which prints it out of thin air. It is THIS process which creates the artificial booms, the inevitable busts, and the much-deserved lack in confidence.
If all that money is, is confidence, then it is a confidence game like a ponzi scheme. The better way is sound money.
@deadballo its fundamentally different to a ponzi scheme. With Austrian economics how do you expand the money supply to grow the economy? The Euro is a strong currency. All you have to do is look at the exchange rates to realise that. What created the artificial boom was the ability for country like the Republic of Ireland to access cheap credit that was lower than the rate their nation was growing. It was basically free money and it had to find a home.
Expanding the money supply doesn't grow the economy—quite the opposite! Expanding the money supply encourages people to save less which ends up SHRINKING the economy. Money is the exchange medium. It is not capital. You can't have more capital available for growth without savings i.e. forgoing current spending for greater future production.
If you think the Euro is a strong currency, I'll be entertained to know what you think when it collapses.
@deadballo it depends on who receives the loans. The Euro won't collapse, not a chance in hell. Infact, I'd wager you on it. Put your money where your mouth is. Austrian economics is a joke and not taken seriously my the vast majority of business people and economists for a very good reason, its utter non-sense that still sees the world's economics in much like a barter like system. The only way Austrian 'economists' can rationalise others not sharing their views is with conspiracy theories
When you have artificially low interest rates like you currently do in Europe, you can't help but have malinvestment i.e. the 'wrong' people receiving loans.
I'll easily make that bet. Basically, what you're betting is that the Euro will be the sole exception in the entire history of the world. No fiat currency has survived. Not one.
Your dismissal of Austrian economics demonstrates your willful ignorance. Conspiracy theories? The barter system? You're the one spouting nonsense.
@deadballo 'artificially low' what the fuck are you talking about? All money is a manmade concept, so it is all artificial. You don't think gold and silver is money made by God do you? LOL
Yes, the Euro will survive and the UK is losing out by not joining. UKIP only exists because some Brits still hold on to the delusional belief of regaining their empire. I'd wish the Brits would piss off out of Ireland as well. Who do you think you are believing you know everything?
Gold isn't an interest rate. The interest rate is the price of future money in present money, and just like any price it can reflect supply and demand (real) or it can be set by fiat (artificial). In other words: duh.
If your wanton ignorance wasn't embarrassing enough, you introduce MORE scarecrows to tear down like the British pound, which is just as topical as your fanciful "conspiracy theories" and "barter system."
See, if you knew austrian economics you could have an argument.
@deadballo did I say gold is an interest rate? No! Who sets interest rates? A person does, therefore it is artificial. You follow Ron Paul, don't you? TARP wasn't exactly a failure, you have to admit when all the money was paid back and the taxpayer got a nice dividend out of it. The companies stayed in business and a second great depression was averted. I know all about austrian economics, seriously its nonsense, mate. What are you views of Peter Schiff?
PS: The recession will continue until the bad debts are cleared. That includes all he garbage that was bought with TARP, and "paid back" by borrowing from the Treasury with fake money
@deadballo google the words 'tarp money repaid' and on the 8th search result you will get a link to yahoo finance. lts been paid back almost in full and $10 billion profit for the taxpayer. So if it was up to Austrians we'd have no banks left and car companies. Sounds like a great plan. Ridding of perfectly find corps. Right, its pointless talking to you. Its like trying to convince a truther 9/11 was caused by a bunch of pissed off muslims. No matter what I write it won't change your mind.
1) TARP nominally cost taxpayers $109 billion, not negative $10 billion. Government still owns GM and AIG, and even if you were correct (you're flat out wrong), that's still a negative impact to taxpayers.
2) When bad companies go bust, they are bought out by competent companies. All TARP did was bail out the incompetent which is a recipe for disaster.
You're wrong on the facts and willfully ignorant about Austrian theory. Read the article I provided. Even you can comprehend it
@deadballo its been paid back well before schedule and so far been an outstanding success. Are you trying to say Chrysler and GM should of gone out of existence? That would leave the US with only Ford and a monopoly in the car industry. It wasn't their fault they went bust. It was a credit crunch, a virtual freeze in credit in the financial system and loss in confidence. The bailouts and QE stopped the fire and confidence is slowly restoring. We would be growing only for the Tea Party.
The world has plenty of old, sclerotic industries which don't know how to innovate. GM isn't even a car company; they're a finance company (and now welfare queen). Their CEOs has been politicians than businessmen for decades. Who is to say Ford would have bought them? They didn't even have the cash; more likely a healthy car company like Kia.
QE poured gasoline on the flames. Tea Party is yet another red herring. GO READ THE ARTICLE YOU IGNORANT BOOB
@Seano71 - So you're a 'conspiracy nut' turned 'good'. I see. Perhaps it's best to take a deflationary spiral yourself and read that book. What we're told is a 'free market' is in fact a managed market and what we're told is 'capitalism' is corporatism - which takes us to Mussolini's version of socialism, which in turn is close to 'national socialism', which again in turn is close to communism, as Goebbels himself claimed before WW2... which brings us back to the Keynesian socialist pyramid...
@UKIPmeps I agree with you the current system is seriously flawed and we never had a free market system. However, what exactly is a free market? In a free market we would be free to buy and sell whatever we wished, including drugs and parts of endangered animals for example. Corporations have been on the whole a force for good. There has been a gradual loss in regulation and banks have been allowed gamble with other people's money. This has to stop.
In the US the market is not "free". There is a Private Bank which holds a monopoly on the money and creates artificial booms. We call it "the fed". Also our Congress ratherly stupidly told banks they cant reject mortgage applications, even if the person was too poor to pay back
.
It is NOT a free market when you have a Private Bank plus Congress pulling the strings and ordering businessmen what to do. They created the boom. And the bust
@Seano71 come on man.... I am not an Economist however, if I had the money and I could influence decisions I would do it and so do the top 1%. The perpetual increase in debt levels only benefits the rich and increases the burden on the common folk. Although I do not blindly believe that a gold standard would be beneficial, the Austrian argument offers less false growths for the benefit of few people in favour of a more stable economy.
@europarl You have to be kidding about Austrian economics right. You do know that Austrian economics is to economy what Creationism is to Physics and Biology right? You do know that?
Austrian economics is nothing more that a bunch of assertions with extremely loose definitions on anything and with absolutely no relation to real economic data. For any theory in Keynesian economics to even be considered for acceptance it must be supported real economic empirical data and be peer reviewed..right..
@kevinz1985 how come its not thought in nearly all universities and isn't taken serious by the vast majority of economists? Is it one big conspiracy or are all these graduates simple stupid or misguided?
@Seano71 You're assuming human beings (yes, you're ivory tower academics aren't divine gods, they are humans too) are infallible to propaganda. There is nothing more convincing and misleading than political propaganda. And there is nothing more dangerous and arrogant than assuming it doesn't exist.
Looking up the fallacy of appealing to authority would also do you some good.
@kevinz1985 I'm sorry, but he is not from Austria! Philipp Bagus is a German economist and professor of economics at Universidad Rey Juan Carlos in Madrid. He earned a Bachelor and Master at the University of Münster and Ph.D. from Universidad Rey Juan Carlos with Jesús Huerta de Soto as his adviser on a thesis on deflation. His English is terrible... :D
@diogeneslaertius666 EU was not designed to fail deliberately. That's nonsense. If Greece or any other country steps out of the Euro, which they actually can't according to the treaties at present time, then the Euro have failed or at least must be devalued against other currencies. The ECB can not continue lending money to failing nations knowing the money may very well be lost, given the no bailout clause, and the democratic problem in economic enslavement of the citizens in healthy economies.
@diogeneslaertius666 Your argument about the EU being designed to fail deliberately do not logically make any sense. The EU project is for the most part designed and headed by politicians to the left like Barosso. If the EU fails then he would be out of a job, and like any other fat cat he loves having all the power in the world and lots of money. Would the Euro fail he would most likely be out of a job. Now the EU is not engineered to fail rather it's an illusion made by power hungry people
@diogeneslaertius666 Where do you get this stuff from? You're just making stuff up and regurgitating some half facts and stories you've heard. So you're saying someone in power started two world wars in order to make some money 60 years later. Completely madness.
Neither EU nor the Euro is by definition a Ponzi scheme and it's ridiculous even to suggest it because then you do not know what a Ponzi scheme is.
The economic problems for many Euro countries stem from systemic economic problems.
@SquirrelFromGradLife you are so quick to judge the totality of something that its not hard for me to believe you would continue to pursue the subject in an irrational manner while waving off any assertion to the contrary blithely.
@SquirrelFromGradLife Where do you get the idea that it took the powers that be 60 years to turn a profit from war? They were making money immediately, both in the literal sense of printing it (actually making money) and making money from the money, by charging interest 60 years ago. It was compound interest too. What he is suggesting with the Ponzi scheme thing (I would assume) is that because most of the financial world operates on fiat, infinite growth systems which resemble a Panzi scheme.
@LAZERBEEMofTRUTH You use words you do not understand the meaning of like fiat money. You've probably heard someone talk about the evil fiat money and you bought that. But the concept of money is by definition a fiat system and even with a gold standard it still is. The only thing backing money is trust. Backing money with gold is like crossing the stream to get water it makes no sense at all except in a closed rural economy where gold is monopolized.
@SquirrelFromGradLife I have over 10 years experience in the Finance, Lending, Mortgage, Insurance, and Secondary Marketing of Securities Industries. I know exactly what I'm talking about. People who know wtf is going on in the market, are by in large investors or people who at least understand them, and the nature of money. Fiat currency is backed by nothing, and represents debt + compound interest, which requires INFINITE GROWTH. This would be fine, if we had infinite resources, but we don't
@LAZERBEEMofTRUTH LOL.. your claim of experience amounts to someone asserting they're able to perform brain surgery because they worked as a janitor in a hospital for ten years.. give me a fucking break man.. and your bullshit about large investors knowing how the economy works is the most retarded thing I have ever heard given the fact that those large investors got mostly royally fucked during the last couple of years and if they knew anything at all then they would have lost a dollar..
@SquirrelFromGradLife I am not claiming to be an expert, but someone with some experience regarding this subject. Large investors know what's up. Guys like Jim Rogers and Peter Schiff are Billionaire Investors who pay very close attention to inflation factors, and Austrian Economic Theory for a reason, and both make lots and lots of money from investments betting against their own country right now because of it. So are they bull shit too?
The only thing "backing" money is trust now. And that "trust" is only that basically if we put 250K into an account, and the account is stolen/lost, we get that money back. That is about the only assurance they give. That does not indicate though, the value to which the money would have. There are literally starving Billionaires in some countries in Africa due to bankrupt currencies. This is not only possible, but probable given the nature of the debt to GDP ratio this country is headed in.
@LAZERBEEMofTRUTH When you say quote, "The only thing "backing" money is trust now." as if that somehow comes as a surprise to you means you haven't read one single book on economics - ever! You do know that even in a purely utilitarian view the only thing backing a gold backed currency is in fact trust! Trust that the gold backing the currency actually have value. Anyone with half a brain will realize that if your backing is worthless then the currency automatically becomes worthless. Right.
why Mr. Farage want get out of EU? maybe he wants to have great and rich United Kingdom like UK was in history? UK is known for connections with the US and making big money on this, so how UK got into EU? British people wanted EU or not? and why Mr.Farage is so afraid of Germany? is he living the past? or is he jealous of German companys and production and German money? if somebody could explain this to me - Thank You :) I'm not EU socialist nor Mr.Farage supporter, I'm just asking and thinking
neohideo 3 months ago
@neohideo "I'm just [...] thinking"
You're not doing a very good job.
TWSceptic 1 month ago
everybody says in EU there is democracy "problem" (right or wrong I don't know), excuse me but in China there is no democracy and their government does have too much money that they can help EU and US in debt crisis, democracy or no democracy it's not that much a problem for making money as China showed us (sorry for my English, I'm trying hard... :) so where is the problem? imho export, EU export is too small
neohideo 3 months ago
about Greece it's not Euro currency problem, it's "people are often greedy and not thinking right for future" problem of debt, in US there are rich and poor states just like diffrent countries in EU and there were bailouts in US, the real problem is how to get out of huge debt and not getting in for future debt? by having creative companys and production in Europe, how to create great companys in EU? give people freedom in charge and create their future inside EU by stopping worthless paperwork!
neohideo 3 months ago
it's not about politics that much as people think,it's about technology and why is China getting REALLY RICH? because they produce almost everything and they try to produce their own ideas, if EU wants to be rich there must be diffrent education in EU countries that will promote free thinking and new technology that EU companys could export and make money, that is how Germany, US, Japan and now China got rich, we need European companys like Microsoft, Apple, Sony etc., we only have great EU cars
neohideo 3 months ago
imho they (Farage and his friends) don't get one simple thing, if Europe will not be in Union, they could be against each other, this was for centuries in Europe and there were many wars in Europe, maybe Europe should be in Union but in charge of right-wing politicians (right now there are socialists in charge of EU, am I right?), and what about challenging huge countries like USA or China? small European countries can't compete, everybody who played games like Civilization will know it all ;)
neohideo 3 months ago
@neohideo the argument that If European countries aren't in a union together that they will end up fighting each other doesn't make logical sense. NATO worked to defend Europe in the cold war and europeans have had a major change of opinion about war after the end of the second world war so I view the argument of them going at each other if they are not in a union a false argument since it doesn't match reality.
cwa1984 2 months ago
why is this young guy laughing?
neohideo 3 months ago
very good speach! I'd also suggest the solution of professor Auriti who predicted the disaster if the Euro on the 90'. He was for the
money when issued must belong to the citizens and not to the print shop ( ECB )
this is very simple to achieve it is enough
to change the eu treaties in this sense and all debts will disappear. God bless Europe.
1969liberty 3 months ago
They are both so right, but Hankels English is so veird, and Bagus is such a boring speaker.... terrible presentation, alas.
Derukugi2 3 months ago
I hope the Euro falls. It's brought nothing other than misery here in The Netherlands. Career politicians claim the GDP has steadily increased but life has become much more expensive since we've had the Euro. A bread used to be 1 gulden 50 cent ( 68 eurocent ) and now I pay 1 euro 30, almost double. For 100 gram of ham I used to pay 2 Dutch guilder and now I pay 2 Euro for the same, more than double the price since 1 Eur = 2,2 GLD. Glass of beer 1 guilder 50, now 2 Euro almost triple the price.
schapiee 3 months ago
@schapiee but hasn´t your income trippled as well ? ... no ? Strange.. Here in Germany i think they just exchanged 1 : 1. Exept for the wages of course.
musicomplex 3 months ago
@musicomplex
My net wage increased by 20% but that's of no use when prices has doubled for most products. Germany is totally different; I visit Germany 3 times a year, mostly Düsseldorf, Köln, and Oberausen. Germany is much cheaper than Holland with almost anything. Hotel stay Düsseldorf around 40 Euro and with 4 persons it's just 10 pp. Schnitzel mit kartofln und salat with half a liter Weiss bier around € 9,00 and in Holland around € 17,00 ( including the beer ) etc.
schapiee 3 months ago
@schapiee Well, that makes sense. Holidays in the Netherlands where incredible expensive for me, i thought it was due to being in Bergen Aan Zee... However, we know whats happening.. And still german prices doubled, too. At this rate, in 6 - 8 years i will not be able to live from my income..
musicomplex 3 months ago
@musicomplex
Not only is Bergen aan Zee expensive, so is Zandvoort aan Zee, Scheveningen, Egmond,
Amsterdam city center ( Rembrant, Leidse, Spui, etc ), the entire province of Zeeland, etc.
I'm a Dutch citizen ( born Indonesia, adopted by Dutch parents ), and having lived here for 28 years ( I'm 34 but lived 6 years in the US ) and I have seen the chances. I want European countries to be friends and trade with each other but no political union.
schapiee 3 months ago
@musicomplex as I recall, the deutsch mark to euro ration was 2 - 1, I know that , because Bulgaria is in a currency board with the deutsch mark , which made a 1:1 tie between bulgarian lev and deutsch mark, you guys went for the euro, currency board still stays in Bulgaria, yet 1 lev is still around 0.5 euro. But , then again , I guess german salaries increased since that time :D
climenttp 3 months ago
@climenttp the 1:1 ratio was the inofficial way of dealing with it ;-) Of course you got 1:2, but within two years, at least in many places, they took out their old Deutsche Mark price signs and simply putting a € were once was DM. And guess what, on the sales side its a doubling of income! Sadly prices are not cheated on the small end but pushed higher from above... But guess what happened to wages and saleries? Nothing. Public sector fucked, big players smiling. No surprise ;-)
musicomplex 3 months ago
The 2nd presentation took an eternity (2x faster to read his paper), but there was one idea that wasn't discussed enough, which may be the solution for Greece: Creating a domestic currency so all domestic contracts would automatically be in Drachma. This is what happens already in spontaneous way: People bartering and writing each other IOU's. That's what you really need a currency for. It could coexist with Euro, but only if the Greeks press it through against the EMU.
rewtnode 4 months ago
Repeatedly the word Socialism was used for the centralization of power in Europe. It might be that it is something in the direction of Stalinism, but that was anything but socialism, no matter how much Stalin called it that way. The critique of the left in Europe to hold on with all force to the Euro and centralization is valid. They have made themselves to the idiots who could best sell the undemocratic reign of the European finance oligarchy to the people. If it's an ism then it is feudalism.
rewtnode 4 months ago
@rewtnode If you read through the documents of feudal contracts you'll see that technically peasants had more rights and freedoms then than modern Europeans have now. Feudalism would be a step up for the Eurozone.The Eurozone is more like a corporatist, oligarch run welfare state which relies on the productivity of others to prop up their economy.
Hellfireblogs 4 months ago
The cameraman should be fired .
bulakmartin 4 months ago 28
@bulakmartin totally agree
PolitikaSK 4 months ago
@bulakmartin : Agreed!
TheVoxRox 4 months ago
@bulakmartin Totally agreed!
bluesnow83 4 months ago
@bulakmartin killed.
gkabic 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Fiscal Union of the 12.5 trillion Euro+EU economy can re-start local manufacturing (part-time+full time) w/ just 3 trillion Euros :Wireless Broadband continent-wide+Solar-Wind-Wave-hybrid-electric-plug-in battery-fuel-cell-fusion+its advanced ELECTRIC POWER GRID SOLUTIONS :EU must be writing the algorithms/code+manufacturing locally the tools for practical daily applications,and with the best natural and organic foods,cooking oils,fruits and vegetables=the balance. financialtools1.blogspot.com
financialtools1 4 months ago
Man that german guy can go on.
aghoranathi 4 months ago
@aghoranathi This is the driest video i have ever seen.
aghoranathi 4 months ago
@aghoranathi What is this EMU that the second guy keeps saying? Please.
aghoranathi 4 months ago
@aghoranathi The real number that AJ just reported was 79 trillion. No joke.
aghoranathi 4 months ago
@aghoranathi: EMU = European Monetary Union ;-)
TheVoxRox 4 months ago
The 3 dislikes are Van rompuy, Barosso, and probably, Justin Adams
Tigerhearty 4 months ago 18
the basic problem with the austrian school is that it is not rigorous enough with regard to definitions of the variables
and this is inherently the problem with all extant economic theory
the attempt to quantify something that is inherently complex - if this attempt does not, from the standpoint of its very design, embrace the inherent complexity of the subject, error is invariably the result.
but at least it comes closer to this goal of liberty than any other system except the American Sys
diogeneslaertius666 4 months ago
@diogeneslaertius666 the essential problem of all economic theory is passing off crude synthetic values for what is a real world thing/event
until such data is driven by rigorous real-time values, we cannot even begin to use it and yet we do - to the detriment of all save but a few who control the system itself (Lord Acton said it best...)
we must greet the synthetic quantification of the individual with hostility until a robust level of fidelity can be assured
diogeneslaertius666 4 months ago
@diogeneslaertius666 the same problem exists in all discrete sciences from medicine to physics
and really the only form of progress (which fucko here would know if he bothered to read my work at all before attacking me like a ferret on crack) in the sciences that is possible takes up the form of refining the ability to sense, detect and the rationalize observational data...
but hey w/e
im just an "insert insult here" - because civilization has gone to the PIGS @SquirrelFromGradLife
diogeneslaertius666 4 months ago
As the professor pointed out in his speech the Euro crisis is one of lobbyist banker interests and the international corporatist oligarchy they are intertwined with and NOT one of sovereign default. As he pointed out: a default would have been preferable for both Greece and for the European taxpayers who have to foot the bill for the bailout in favor of the "bankster elite" or the super rich .
We are being led around by the nose for the profit of the 1% super rich plutochrats. Disgusting!
silencerainbows 4 months ago
MAYBE RONALDO, CAN PAY PORTUGAL'S DEBT..HE MAKES ENOUGH.
chadberry75 4 months ago
Milton Friedman a great economist ??? Hilfe !!!!
Bisher dachte ich immer, viel von Hankel zu halten, doch jetzt bekomme ich leider meine Zweifel ...
thekingofassholes 4 months ago
If you like what Philipp Bagus is saying, I can recomend his book 'The tragedy of the euro'. It can be found as a pdf at mises.org. Just google it!
lagurz 4 months ago
Bagus is right. No more bailouts! Sink the Euro!
It was a failed experiment anyway.
TheLoyalOfficer 4 months ago
please keep reloading for a "fresher " update for those who search that way. Just note the date of the conference....so much good info. in this. I think "they" are waiting to include the United States in the overall "solution". Indeed, a new world order. So Greece can save us all. By defaulting,,,of course, unless they use the greek default to sell it worldwide. Who knows what they are going to try.. Just Stopping is not an option for them. A constant battle.
sandyj321 4 months ago
There is a German word "still" too.
But it means: calm, undisclosed, hidden, secret.
Hankel used a "false friend".
WUNDENFL4MME 4 months ago
With "still reserves" Hankel means:
undisclosed reserves
WUNDENFL4MME 4 months ago
LOL
I bet you Brits love Hankel's English ;-)
But remember it could be even worse!
HE COULD BE FRENCH. ROFL
Anyways, Prof. Hankel iz zhe expert on zhe Euro!
Zhat'z forr shurre.
WUNDENFL4MME 4 months ago
let us do a translation in german please
OmariusHLD 4 months ago
10,000 views wow! keep spreading this around please its a great eye opener....
lefouissimo1313 4 months ago
I can´t see EU politicians undoing their lives´ work...
skazhiprivet 4 months ago
Comment removed
skazhiprivet 4 months ago
I've seen this before on The BBC.
arthur1411 4 months ago 2
Hankel accidentally says "deflationary" policies are a disaster (at about 22min) - exactly what we need - he means "inflationtary" as he goes on to elaborate.
abolitionofman1 4 months ago
Comment removed
qortin 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
If th UN recognizes the EU as a state, does that mean there will be a single EU team in the 2016 Olympics?
.
That would be cool. EU versus US. What an epic battle! Like the old USSR versus US battles of yesteryear...... heck the EU can even use the hammer-and-sickle since it's so similar to the old EUSSR
.
;-)
electrictroy2010 4 months ago
Professor Wilhelm Hankel accent is killing me..and Im german. xD
SymonS 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I didn't know Wilhelm Hankel, but no wonder he made so much sense... he's a German economist.
Well, that's encouraging. More Germans need to be heard from.
Thanks, that was very interesting.
87solarsky 4 months ago in playlist 4M
If people of this calibre think a gold standard is the answer then I'm heading for the hills.
waldentree 4 months ago
@Bernd1964 Very well said sir. I would add only that humanity must come together in complete unity and declare ourselves free from these master manipulators once and for all. We must continuously expose them until the world clearly sees the entirety of their evil. Justice must be brought to bare onto these evil persons. My gut instinct tells me we are very close to declaring victory! Keep up the good fight until that day arrives...
FreedomFighter357 4 months ago
"currency freedom" hmm.. got dollars?
waldentree 4 months ago
i agree with this
1981ledzep 4 months ago
@Seano71
Banks are encouraged to gamble because of government bailouts.
They were also encouraged to buy government bonds, which crowded out private investment. The governments wasted the money and cannot stay solvent much longer. So what's the real problem here?
IM21337 4 months ago
Just watched to 11 minutes, and I go now, watch the rest later.
SelectiveLostMemory 4 months ago
... would have been paniked more than they do now. Greece would have been bankrupt without seeïng it coming. And if State goes, the rest will follow, and EU would have been less strong than it is now. Ifthere is corruption, and that will be solved, that country will be stronger than ever before by stability ! Greece has everything that it must have, to be a big strong value in the EUROZONE.
SelectiveLostMemory 4 months ago
"We wouldn't never had, never, a euro crisis without the so called rescue plans of the EURO". Respect to your meaning, dear professor, but if there was no rescue before the impact now by the EU, there would have been a bigger disaster for Greece and for the Europeans, by beïng totally bankrupt and not rescuable anymore, on behalve of the corruption !
"Greece must have gone to his old currency". The EU support each member State, and if Greece would have been stepped out of the EU, the people ...
SelectiveLostMemory 4 months ago
Encouraging to see some real solutions being discussed today
seeusok 4 months ago
Is there a transcript, or, a typed version of what was being said? Ill look for it on ukip meps site, but If i dont find it id appreciate it.
rhubarbcheese 4 months ago
Nigel Farage for US President!
cobrajitsu 4 months ago
who is the young man wearing glases? he is great!
mtklaric 4 months ago
did someone give the cameraman like 12 espressos before this was shot ;) ?
diogeneslaertius666 4 months ago
i dont say any of what i say for ego or glory
i do not like being right
i do not like this state of affairs
everything in me cries out for liberty, it is that very voice of liberty that bade me speak and which bids me even now to continue to speak, even if the truth is harsh and falls on deaf ears.
diogeneslaertius666 4 months ago
@diogeneslaertius666 Amen to that.. If more of us continue to do this, the noise will eventually be deafening.
LAZERBEEMofTRUTH 4 months ago 7
@LAZERBEEMofTRUTH hear hear
diogeneslaertius666 4 months ago
Die Geschichte von 1969 bis heute, die ganze Misere in einem Buch. Leseprobe auf ddrv2.com.
DDRv2TV 4 months ago
the insight into economics of Professor Hankel is amaising and extremely enlightening. Thank you Mr Hankel for passing on your knowledge.
EUrealitycheck1 4 months ago
re-upload huh.... well again I have to say that a gold back currency standard is completely insane especially if you have any interest in controlling inflation and stem the tide against rampant speculation against any currency in the future.
Someone on the previously uploaded video made a remark that I got it all backwards. Then he proceeded to contradict himself. If the price of gold changes in a gold backed currency then the value of that currency must change. Higher gold prices=inflation.
SquirrelFromGradLife 4 months ago
@SquirrelFromGradLife >>>"gold back currency standard is completely insane if you have any interest in controlling inflation"
.
In the US when we had a gold-backed standard, the inflation held close to 0% from 1800 to 1910. A dollar in 1800 had almost the same purchasing power in 1910. It was held constant
.
Next compare a 1910 dollar to now. In 1910 it bought a week of food but now only buys a candy bar. Fiat currency loses value cause it's not tied to anything. It floats and is unstable.
electrictroy2010 4 months ago
@electrictroy2010 Are you fucking kidding me with this republican bullshit? You're just a lying piece of shit and your argument is completely retarded.. with one sentence you have just wiped out 100 years of American history right there and you believe us to buy that bullshit you fucking retard? So the Civil war never happened and neither did the horrible inflation before during and after. War of 1812 gone...
SquirrelFromGradLife 4 months ago
I didn't know Philipp Bagus, but no wonder he made so much sense... he's an austrian economist.
Well, that's encouraging. More Austrians need to be heard from.
Thanks, that was very interesting.
kevinz1985 4 months ago 38
@kevinz1985 I believe Mr. Bagus is German. If you're referring to the so-called "Austrian school of economics" then I have to disappoint you in that there's absolutely no empirical evidence so support most of their theories. Even their stands on any kind of intervention will result in inflation taken directly from the monetarists are being wiped out as we speak. The economy tends to move more and more in a Keynesian way and the market forces reacting in a known macro economic way.
SquirrelFromGradLife 4 months ago
Comment removed
kevinz1985 4 months ago
@SquirrelFromGradLife I'm not sure I understood your point about inflation; how are you going to inflate when you can't create "money" out of thin air ?
What theories were you referring to exactly ? Because one of them has been recently proven correct by History, yet again, when they predicted the crisis of 2008 years before it happened.
But where were the great monetarists and keynesians to warn us before 2008 ? and before 2000 ? and 1971 ? and 1929 ? etc.
kevinz1985 4 months ago
@kevinz1985 Inflation IS the creation of Money out of thin air! Inflation is the debasement , or dilution of the currency.
Think about it this way. If there is a finite number of cars, houses, diamonds, gold, oil, etc, and an ever expanding supply of MONEY, what will the prices do? Increase! This is inflation. They PRINT Money they can't get us to agree to pay for in taxes, so inflation is a true hidden tax. Inflation has spiked tremendously, but the FED plays games like ignoring food and energy
LAZERBEEMofTRUTH 4 months ago
@LAZERBEEMofTRUTH Yes, I'm aware of that ;) I was using this word in this sense.
But i guess our friend SquirrelFromGradLife probably uses this word for rising prices.
kevinz1985 4 months ago
@LAZERBEEMofTRUTH First of all there's NOT a finite number of cars, houses etc. and secondly it's NOT correct that in an open economy expanding the money supply will automatically lead to ricing prices.
Further more the CPI is a well established standard for calculating the actual inflation rate in an economy for an average person and it's NOT correct that food and energy cost are not included as you somehow seem to claim..
SquirrelFromGradLife 4 months ago
@SquirrelFromGradLife So there are infinite cars and houses huh? Are you on Crack? Be honest. There are a FININTE Number of both houses and cars, we will never have an infinite supply of either. And yes, it is accurate that an expanding supply of money will create inflation. Core CPI does not include food or energy.
LAZERBEEMofTRUTH 4 months ago
@kevinz1985 utter bullshit.. the Austrian economic is NOT in any way shape or form rooted in reality nor is it derived from any kind of real time economic data. It is merely a set of very loosely defined assertions on how the market reacts to certain influences but it is NEVER backed up in any form by any empirical economic data and ends most often in the answer inflation. Inflation which we don't see in any economic data and when challenged the answer is "your definition of inflation is wrong"
SquirrelFromGradLife 4 months ago
@SquirrelFromGradLife you're right its aparrently apriori.
TheSophist2007 4 months ago
@SquirrelFromGradLife "Inflation which we don't see in any economic data".
Maybe you'll have more luck finding it (rising prices) while buying food at Walmart.
No rising prices... That's a good one :}
kevinz1985 4 months ago
@kevinz1985 actually every economist you could ask were saying this is going to explode all along. People you see in the news media like the moronic lying piece of shit Peter Schiff is NOT an economist.
Everyone the knows anything about economy will tell you that the stock market is nothing more than gambling and that derivatives are gambling on crack. The worst part about the derivatives market is that it was completely deregulated in 2000 and now totaling 60-80 trillion in liabilities!
SquirrelFromGradLife 4 months ago
"actually every economist you could ask were saying this is going to explode all along."
Are you referring to the crisis of 08 there ?
"Everyone the knows anything about economy will tell you that the stock market is nothing more than gambling and that derivatives are gambling on crack[...]"
What is your point ?
kevinz1985 4 months ago
@kevinz1985 My point is "we, and when I say we I mean America, have created the ultimate economic disaster that will wipe out anything of value around the entire world economy with the deregulated derivatives market. You think it's bad when some US banks go belly up and a trillion and change is needed to bail those morons out? Well how about if things go really bad then? It was just a fraction of those 60-80 trillion in liabilities that went bad, so what if just 20% went bad?
SquirrelFromGradLife 4 months ago
@SquirrelFromGradLife No empirical evidence? How about Peter Schiff and Ron Paul, both students of Austrian economics, both accurately predicted the financial collapse that douche bags like you said "would never happen"?
LAZERBEEMofTRUTH 4 months ago
@LAZERBEEMofTRUTH Peter Schiff..LOL students...LOL.. Peter Schiff predicted fuckall. Now you can't even use the word prediction correctly and apparently you do not know the definition of the word prediction. He started his bullshit years before the crash in fact it was more than two years before the meltdown he started saying what everybody knew was going to happen and what happens every five to seven years. Spare me your bullshit about Austrian economics..
SquirrelFromGradLife 4 months ago
@SquirrelFromGradLife Ok you are obviously a Leftist, radical idiot who's partisan walls of recognition impair your ability to see the truth, and the Forrest from the trees. Schiff, and Paul were going on and on about the product of the Business Cycle in 2002-03, and I sat there laughing at them thinking they were crazy back then. You can mock these people all you want with your liberal brainwashed mind, but reality will smack your ass hard in the 401K before you realize you're just wrong.
LAZERBEEMofTRUTH 4 months ago
@LAZERBEEMofTRUTH Further more Peter Schiff is using the tried old way of republican politics of lying, making stuff up, manipulating and blaming somebody else. He deals in derivatives and the CFMA complete deregulation in 2000 created hos company and his job. He knows deregulation caused the economic collapse by creating HUGE losses and systemic bad assets threatening the entire economy because he dealt in the very derivatives the brought down AIG, Lehman, Bear Sterns etc.
SquirrelFromGradLife 4 months ago
@SquirrelFromGradLife Do you realize that Schiff is not a politician, he's an investor. He does not make shit up for political gain, he' owns Euro Pacific Capital, and his job is to make money investing in markets around the world. If YOU were living in reality, YOU would know that you cant just "make shit up" and "Manipulate and blame" your way to being a stressful investor. You're either right about shit, and profitable, or you're not talking about it on business channel TV programs.
LAZERBEEMofTRUTH 4 months ago
@LAZERBEEMofTRUTH There you go lying again, or perhaps you're just a complete moron, and chances are you're both at this point because as we all known Peter Schiff IS actually a politician. He spent a lot of money trying to get elected last term as a republican. So when you say he's NOT a politician then that's LIE. It's another LIE that he's "investing in market around the world" because he is merely a hedgefund manager investing in American derivatives!
SquirrelFromGradLife 4 months ago
@LAZERBEEMofTRUTH Further more Peter Schiff wasn't right about shit as you call it. It's hilarious that you somehow believe successful business people can't just make shit up, well look at Bernie Madoff and all the other people which turned out to be crooks. They were as you call it successful people for years all in the media and according to you they had to be right then. Well they weren't.
Peter Schiff knows that the very derivatives he made his millions from were to blame and NOT the Fed!
SquirrelFromGradLife 4 months ago
I delt in those very derisiveness as well. I know several people who worked for Bear Sterns and Lehman Brothers. The problem was that risk was incentivized in the form of artificially low interest rates. These low rates, created a desire for those companies to make more money (you know, growth). That desire, caused them to produce ever more risky mortgage products, which built on the cycle of house prices by adding people with no business buying, into the market.
LAZERBEEMofTRUTH 4 months ago
@LAZERBEEMofTRUTH and I am not going to waste any more time on your pathetic bullshit because apparently you do not subscribe to the same reality as everyone else. A theory has to be founded on real empirical economic data and you would know that if you had any idea how science works but Austrian economics is in no way shape or form based on empirical data at all. Peter Schiffs claims of massive inflation after the bailouts in 2008 resulted in 0.03% inflation in 2009! How about that..LOL
SquirrelFromGradLife 4 months ago
@SquirrelFromGradLife I'm glad you don't want to waste any more of my time. FYI inflation in 2009 was low because we experienced DEFLATION for much of the year as a result of a retracting economy trying to correct itself from a binge of inflation driven debt, which it is still choking on, and will continue to do so until you're actually smart enough to "get it".
LAZERBEEMofTRUTH 4 months ago
@SquirrelFromGradLife And what empirical data, is the science of mathematics founded on? Or is mathematics not a science? You can't prove Fermat's last theorem by observation. But nevertheless, it has been proved. Economics is ultimately the science of human action. Human beings are not billiard balls. We are acting beings. We act using means to achieve ends. Working out the consequences is a deductive science, not an empirical one. Our behavior can not be modeled by differential equations.
xleroc 4 months ago
@xleroc none of this matters to him
the concept of intellectual conscience is wholly foreign to his mind
but i salute you for your wisdom and appreciation for the inherent super-complexity of existence.
diogeneslaertius666 4 months ago
@diogeneslaertius666 So you blocked me..LOL.. How fucking pathetic could a person be.. I have not even made one single comment on one of your videos or on your channel page and you block me because I have the audacity to call you're pathetic bullshit ramblings what they are... bullshit...incoherent bullshit ramblings from a person with really bad standards of evidence..
SquirrelFromGradLife 4 months ago
@xleroc i think the austrians et al. are at least closer to the probabilistic curve because they take as inputs these Inherently unquantifiable subjects
in fact i think codifying liberty must take up a similar form as to the one here generally being addressed
i think Einsteins commentary on the general theory of relativity is sufficient here, in that we must be on our guard against the idea that the constructs of synthetic information or language are more than mere approximations
diogeneslaertius666 4 months ago
@xleroc What..LOL.. are you kidding me? You do know the difference between the substance of a mathematical proof and the fragile nature barely tangible statistical analysis of empirical economic data that support economic theories that rest on pinpoint definitions. Economics is nothing more than the study of the man made social structure that describes the creation of value. If you remove the whole notion of actual empirical data supporting your argument you're left with NOTHING!
SquirrelFromGradLife 4 months ago
@SquirrelFromGradLife hows is a schoolium structured around behaviorism and its inherently unquantifiability, which calls for a discrete analysis of existence and insists on an allowance for human nature, somehow averse to aggregating empirical data?
it isnt, not in any case.
its fundamental precepts, like that of any discrete science are not held a priori true on the basis of speculation, but for observable, causative Reasons.
diogeneslaertius666 4 months ago
@kevinz1985 Ive seen an interview with him once or twice and even a mini lecture if my memory serves me correct. At the Mises website the store has his book. Jeffery Tucker i think interviewed him on the misesmedia(the youtube channel for Mises) about his book as well. I forget what its called but it has Euro mentioned in the title. I aint watched the video yet, im only on the 9th minute but i recognised the guy straight away... If he impresses me here i might go buy that book ^_^
NicosMind 4 months ago
@kevinz1985 Jeffrey Tucker of the Mises Institute interviewed him earlier this year. It's worth checking out.
RMMHS4RP 4 months ago
@kevinz1985 lol, Austrian economics makes sense? Since when?
Seano71 4 months ago
@Seano71 Since it was born. Writing is on the wall...
cabgt 4 months ago
@Seano71 - since time immemmorial. Austrian economics is another name for REAL economics - you know, a real science, like maths and physics. What we have today is Keynesian economics - that is, how to dabble in the markets and their currencies so that, analagously, 1+1 do not make 2 anymore, and a kilo sometimes becomes 3 grams. This way, the global bankers will end up with EVERYTHING, including your balls and those of your grandchildren...
europarl 4 months ago
@europarl so you want a gold standard and someone like Peter Schiff is your idol? You know all these guys do be on the Alex Jones show, that should prove they are loonies for a start. How can Austrian economics prevent a meltdown of the system? How can it prevent a deflationary spiral? How can it grow the economy on a gold standard? How can businesses gain finance to grow and expand? You know, businesses like Google and Macintosh back when they were smaller and needed credit to expand?
Seano71 4 months ago
@Seano71 - you have been derailed. I'll just tell you that in the paradigm of lies and deception almost much of everything crucial is topsy-turvy. You'll need to research a lot and discover how the media works and how the structure is set up - and don't think others are stupid when the joke is on you. You've a long way ahead of you. Start by reading the classic of all classics on this subject: Murray N. Rothbard's "What Has Government Done to Our Money" - just google it and read the pdf book.
UKIPmeps 4 months ago
@UKIPmeps I know all about Austrian economics and I used to believe in all those conspiracy theories. Listen buddy, its all non-sense. You've failed to answer any of my questions. The problem is the laissez faire, deregulated model of free marketing. We for decades had an economy in the west funded by a housing and construction bubble, while millions of jobs were outsourced. We've had mass immigration without at least a debate about it either. We've got many serious problems nowadays.
Seano71 4 months ago
@Seano71
Housing didn't fund anything. If you did know about Austrian economics you would know this.
Bubbles are created when you provide phony credit unbacked by real savings. You can only have this dis-coordination with intervention by a state-granted monopoly.
The only regulation that can come to bear on this problem is that of the market: people withdrawing their own money from this corrupt system.
deadballo 4 months ago
@deadballo yes it did, housing prices were rising and people were under the illusion they were wealthier than they really were. There was a housing construction boom unregulated and let go out of control hiring a great deal of men who are mostly now out of work. Phoney credit? What credit isn't phoney? Spain had a bubble in bullion after they conquered the Mayas. They didn't understand that money was all about supply, demand and confidence.
Seano71 4 months ago
@Seano71
Again, you would do well to understand the school of economics you claim to and have derided.
What credit isn't phony? The answer is when the lending institution must save or borrow in order to lend, unlike the ECB which prints it out of thin air. It is THIS process which creates the artificial booms, the inevitable busts, and the much-deserved lack in confidence.
If all that money is, is confidence, then it is a confidence game like a ponzi scheme. The better way is sound money.
deadballo 4 months ago
@deadballo its fundamentally different to a ponzi scheme. With Austrian economics how do you expand the money supply to grow the economy? The Euro is a strong currency. All you have to do is look at the exchange rates to realise that. What created the artificial boom was the ability for country like the Republic of Ireland to access cheap credit that was lower than the rate their nation was growing. It was basically free money and it had to find a home.
Seano71 4 months ago
@Seano71
Expanding the money supply doesn't grow the economy—quite the opposite! Expanding the money supply encourages people to save less which ends up SHRINKING the economy. Money is the exchange medium. It is not capital. You can't have more capital available for growth without savings i.e. forgoing current spending for greater future production.
If you think the Euro is a strong currency, I'll be entertained to know what you think when it collapses.
deadballo 4 months ago
@deadballo it depends on who receives the loans. The Euro won't collapse, not a chance in hell. Infact, I'd wager you on it. Put your money where your mouth is. Austrian economics is a joke and not taken seriously my the vast majority of business people and economists for a very good reason, its utter non-sense that still sees the world's economics in much like a barter like system. The only way Austrian 'economists' can rationalise others not sharing their views is with conspiracy theories
Seano71 4 months ago
@Seano71
When you have artificially low interest rates like you currently do in Europe, you can't help but have malinvestment i.e. the 'wrong' people receiving loans.
I'll easily make that bet. Basically, what you're betting is that the Euro will be the sole exception in the entire history of the world. No fiat currency has survived. Not one.
Your dismissal of Austrian economics demonstrates your willful ignorance. Conspiracy theories? The barter system? You're the one spouting nonsense.
deadballo 4 months ago
@deadballo 'artificially low' what the fuck are you talking about? All money is a manmade concept, so it is all artificial. You don't think gold and silver is money made by God do you? LOL
Yes, the Euro will survive and the UK is losing out by not joining. UKIP only exists because some Brits still hold on to the delusional belief of regaining their empire. I'd wish the Brits would piss off out of Ireland as well. Who do you think you are believing you know everything?
Seano71 4 months ago
@Seano71
Gold isn't an interest rate. The interest rate is the price of future money in present money, and just like any price it can reflect supply and demand (real) or it can be set by fiat (artificial). In other words: duh.
If your wanton ignorance wasn't embarrassing enough, you introduce MORE scarecrows to tear down like the British pound, which is just as topical as your fanciful "conspiracy theories" and "barter system."
See, if you knew austrian economics you could have an argument.
deadballo 4 months ago
@deadballo did I say gold is an interest rate? No! Who sets interest rates? A person does, therefore it is artificial. You follow Ron Paul, don't you? TARP wasn't exactly a failure, you have to admit when all the money was paid back and the taxpayer got a nice dividend out of it. The companies stayed in business and a second great depression was averted. I know all about austrian economics, seriously its nonsense, mate. What are you views of Peter Schiff?
Seano71 4 months ago
@Seano71
Artificial means unnatural. The natural rate of interest is that which reflects real factors as opposed to the fancies of some ECB chairman.
If you want to know the difference between the Austrian, monetarist, and Keynesian views on the interest rate read this:
mises.org/daily/2513
Trust me: you haven't a clue what Austrian economics is. Your comments demonstrate it.
Your comment on TARP is truly baffling. The money was never paid back, and never will be paid back.
deadballo 4 months ago
@Seano71
PS: The recession will continue until the bad debts are cleared. That includes all he garbage that was bought with TARP, and "paid back" by borrowing from the Treasury with fake money
deadballo 4 months ago
@deadballo google the words 'tarp money repaid' and on the 8th search result you will get a link to yahoo finance. lts been paid back almost in full and $10 billion profit for the taxpayer. So if it was up to Austrians we'd have no banks left and car companies. Sounds like a great plan. Ridding of perfectly find corps. Right, its pointless talking to you. Its like trying to convince a truther 9/11 was caused by a bunch of pissed off muslims. No matter what I write it won't change your mind.
Seano71 4 months ago
@Seano71
1) TARP nominally cost taxpayers $109 billion, not negative $10 billion. Government still owns GM and AIG, and even if you were correct (you're flat out wrong), that's still a negative impact to taxpayers.
2) When bad companies go bust, they are bought out by competent companies. All TARP did was bail out the incompetent which is a recipe for disaster.
You're wrong on the facts and willfully ignorant about Austrian theory. Read the article I provided. Even you can comprehend it
deadballo 4 months ago
@deadballo its been paid back well before schedule and so far been an outstanding success. Are you trying to say Chrysler and GM should of gone out of existence? That would leave the US with only Ford and a monopoly in the car industry. It wasn't their fault they went bust. It was a credit crunch, a virtual freeze in credit in the financial system and loss in confidence. The bailouts and QE stopped the fire and confidence is slowly restoring. We would be growing only for the Tea Party.
Seano71 4 months ago
@Seano71
The world has plenty of old, sclerotic industries which don't know how to innovate. GM isn't even a car company; they're a finance company (and now welfare queen). Their CEOs has been politicians than businessmen for decades. Who is to say Ford would have bought them? They didn't even have the cash; more likely a healthy car company like Kia.
QE poured gasoline on the flames. Tea Party is yet another red herring. GO READ THE ARTICLE YOU IGNORANT BOOB
deadballo 4 months ago
@deadballo f...cking as.hole republican...
Get out of U.S.A. find different planet - f...cking jews...
Will be better world w/out you of course ...
tsa5288 4 months ago
@tsa5288
LOL
deadballo 4 months ago
@Seano71 - So you're a 'conspiracy nut' turned 'good'. I see. Perhaps it's best to take a deflationary spiral yourself and read that book. What we're told is a 'free market' is in fact a managed market and what we're told is 'capitalism' is corporatism - which takes us to Mussolini's version of socialism, which in turn is close to 'national socialism', which again in turn is close to communism, as Goebbels himself claimed before WW2... which brings us back to the Keynesian socialist pyramid...
UKIPmeps 4 months ago
@UKIPmeps I agree with you the current system is seriously flawed and we never had a free market system. However, what exactly is a free market? In a free market we would be free to buy and sell whatever we wished, including drugs and parts of endangered animals for example. Corporations have been on the whole a force for good. There has been a gradual loss in regulation and banks have been allowed gamble with other people's money. This has to stop.
Seano71 4 months ago
@Seano71 >>>"deregulated model of free marketing
.
In the US the market is not "free". There is a Private Bank which holds a monopoly on the money and creates artificial booms. We call it "the fed". Also our Congress ratherly stupidly told banks they cant reject mortgage applications, even if the person was too poor to pay back
.
It is NOT a free market when you have a Private Bank plus Congress pulling the strings and ordering businessmen what to do. They created the boom. And the bust
.
electrictroy2010 4 months ago
@Seano71 come on man.... I am not an Economist however, if I had the money and I could influence decisions I would do it and so do the top 1%. The perpetual increase in debt levels only benefits the rich and increases the burden on the common folk. Although I do not blindly believe that a gold standard would be beneficial, the Austrian argument offers less false growths for the benefit of few people in favour of a more stable economy.
qortin 4 months ago
By the way UKIPmeps and europarl are me and the same ;)
UKIPmeps 4 months ago
@europarl You have to be kidding about Austrian economics right. You do know that Austrian economics is to economy what Creationism is to Physics and Biology right? You do know that?
Austrian economics is nothing more that a bunch of assertions with extremely loose definitions on anything and with absolutely no relation to real economic data. For any theory in Keynesian economics to even be considered for acceptance it must be supported real economic empirical data and be peer reviewed..right..
SquirrelFromGradLife 4 months ago
@SquirrelFromGradLife peer review: What happens when they've all bought in to keynsian dogma?
If you read keynsian economics its apparently unreadable or nonsense.
TheSophist2007 4 months ago
@TheSophist2007 I really do not believe you understand how science works..
SquirrelFromGradLife 4 months ago
@SquirrelFromGradLife you make a claim to special knowledge of the operations of the scientific method
but im pretty sure you are full of shit
diogeneslaertius666 4 months ago
@SquirrelFromGradLife ive written thousands of words detailing the nuances of what is essentially wrong with the austrian school's various authors
no system is a complete system
you dont even understand my analysis and yet you cry foul and prostrate yourself
slandering all the while as if that constituted a refutation
its all quite base and common, not that im surprised or anything mind you - in today;s world such arrogance is rewarded.
diogeneslaertius666 4 months ago
@Seano71 Since 1871.
You have another question ?
kevinz1985 4 months ago
@kevinz1985 how come its not thought in nearly all universities and isn't taken serious by the vast majority of economists? Is it one big conspiracy or are all these graduates simple stupid or misguided?
Seano71 4 months ago
@Seano71 You're assuming human beings (yes, you're ivory tower academics aren't divine gods, they are humans too) are infallible to propaganda. There is nothing more convincing and misleading than political propaganda. And there is nothing more dangerous and arrogant than assuming it doesn't exist.
Looking up the fallacy of appealing to authority would also do you some good.
HolidayFortnight 4 months ago
@HolidayFortnight your*, not you're
HolidayFortnight 4 months ago
@kevinz1985 I'm sorry, but he is not from Austria! Philipp Bagus is a German economist and professor of economics at Universidad Rey Juan Carlos in Madrid. He earned a Bachelor and Master at the University of Münster and Ph.D. from Universidad Rey Juan Carlos with Jesús Huerta de Soto as his adviser on a thesis on deflation. His English is terrible... :D
hanlonsrazor1 4 months ago
@hanlonsrazor1 I was referring to the Austrian School of economics. The only economic school that predicted the crisis of 2008 and many others.
kevinz1985 4 months ago
@kevinz1985 You're absolutely right! :D
hanlonsrazor1 4 months ago
it was very clear from the start that the EU was designed as a political project, a united states of europe
what was not clear is that it was designed to fail Deliberately
and now, i still see a lack of analysis along this vector unfortunately
let us look at the forest and stop analyzing individual trees for a moment
Cui bono?
who benefits from an engineered global economic crisis in a globalized economy?
ask Britain's raped fishing and textile industries... perhaps someone knows
diogeneslaertius666 4 months ago
@diogeneslaertius666 EU was not designed to fail deliberately. That's nonsense. If Greece or any other country steps out of the Euro, which they actually can't according to the treaties at present time, then the Euro have failed or at least must be devalued against other currencies. The ECB can not continue lending money to failing nations knowing the money may very well be lost, given the no bailout clause, and the democratic problem in economic enslavement of the citizens in healthy economies.
SquirrelFromGradLife 4 months ago
@diogeneslaertius666 Your argument about the EU being designed to fail deliberately do not logically make any sense. The EU project is for the most part designed and headed by politicians to the left like Barosso. If the EU fails then he would be out of a job, and like any other fat cat he loves having all the power in the world and lots of money. Would the Euro fail he would most likely be out of a job. Now the EU is not engineered to fail rather it's an illusion made by power hungry people
SquirrelFromGradLife 4 months ago
@SquirrelFromGradLife
You are wrong sir.
It was a Ponzi scheme from the start and WW1 and 2 were ENGINEERED to create precisely the preconditions for it.
But I do not have time to explain it all.
statements like "Would the Euro fail he (B.) would most likely be out of a job. " just drives home to me how superficial your analysis is.
diogeneslaertius666 4 months ago
@diogeneslaertius666 Where do you get this stuff from? You're just making stuff up and regurgitating some half facts and stories you've heard. So you're saying someone in power started two world wars in order to make some money 60 years later. Completely madness.
Neither EU nor the Euro is by definition a Ponzi scheme and it's ridiculous even to suggest it because then you do not know what a Ponzi scheme is.
The economic problems for many Euro countries stem from systemic economic problems.
SquirrelFromGradLife 4 months ago
@SquirrelFromGradLife you are so quick to judge the totality of something that its not hard for me to believe you would continue to pursue the subject in an irrational manner while waving off any assertion to the contrary blithely.
this isnt rhetoric
im not here to convince you.
diogeneslaertius666 4 months ago
@SquirrelFromGradLife Where do you get the idea that it took the powers that be 60 years to turn a profit from war? They were making money immediately, both in the literal sense of printing it (actually making money) and making money from the money, by charging interest 60 years ago. It was compound interest too. What he is suggesting with the Ponzi scheme thing (I would assume) is that because most of the financial world operates on fiat, infinite growth systems which resemble a Panzi scheme.
LAZERBEEMofTRUTH 4 months ago
@LAZERBEEMofTRUTH You use words you do not understand the meaning of like fiat money. You've probably heard someone talk about the evil fiat money and you bought that. But the concept of money is by definition a fiat system and even with a gold standard it still is. The only thing backing money is trust. Backing money with gold is like crossing the stream to get water it makes no sense at all except in a closed rural economy where gold is monopolized.
SquirrelFromGradLife 4 months ago
@SquirrelFromGradLife I have over 10 years experience in the Finance, Lending, Mortgage, Insurance, and Secondary Marketing of Securities Industries. I know exactly what I'm talking about. People who know wtf is going on in the market, are by in large investors or people who at least understand them, and the nature of money. Fiat currency is backed by nothing, and represents debt + compound interest, which requires INFINITE GROWTH. This would be fine, if we had infinite resources, but we don't
LAZERBEEMofTRUTH 4 months ago
@LAZERBEEMofTRUTH LOL.. your claim of experience amounts to someone asserting they're able to perform brain surgery because they worked as a janitor in a hospital for ten years.. give me a fucking break man.. and your bullshit about large investors knowing how the economy works is the most retarded thing I have ever heard given the fact that those large investors got mostly royally fucked during the last couple of years and if they knew anything at all then they would have lost a dollar..
SquirrelFromGradLife 4 months ago
@SquirrelFromGradLife I am not claiming to be an expert, but someone with some experience regarding this subject. Large investors know what's up. Guys like Jim Rogers and Peter Schiff are Billionaire Investors who pay very close attention to inflation factors, and Austrian Economic Theory for a reason, and both make lots and lots of money from investments betting against their own country right now because of it. So are they bull shit too?
LAZERBEEMofTRUTH 4 months ago
The only thing "backing" money is trust now. And that "trust" is only that basically if we put 250K into an account, and the account is stolen/lost, we get that money back. That is about the only assurance they give. That does not indicate though, the value to which the money would have. There are literally starving Billionaires in some countries in Africa due to bankrupt currencies. This is not only possible, but probable given the nature of the debt to GDP ratio this country is headed in.
LAZERBEEMofTRUTH 4 months ago
@LAZERBEEMofTRUTH When you say quote, "The only thing "backing" money is trust now." as if that somehow comes as a surprise to you means you haven't read one single book on economics - ever! You do know that even in a purely utilitarian view the only thing backing a gold backed currency is in fact trust! Trust that the gold backing the currency actually have value. Anyone with half a brain will realize that if your backing is worthless then the currency automatically becomes worthless. Right.
SquirrelFromGradLife 4 months ago