Gatbsy II
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Added: 3 years ago
From: melissaanelli
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  • I think that Gatsby and Daisy can't be together because they missed that window when Tom wasn't in the picture and the only thing keeping them apart then was Gatsby's finances.

    Then Nick tells Gatsby you can't repeat the past he's saying his opportunity to have daisy is gone and there is no way of retrieving it.

  • Great analysis/discussion of the book. I just finished reading it and am still sorting out my emotions about it, but it does say a lot about America, and people, and wealth, and everything..

  • Wish I had that cover, I just have a woman looking in a mirror, it's terribly boring.

    I'm writing about this book in comparison to Death of a Salesman. I love the "single green light" analysis.

    :D

  • [like your video, this is in two parts (: ] Part 2:

    Similar to the symbolism of the "green light of hope," the flower represents the fleeting need we have for the unattainable.

    By the way, thanks for getting me to think about this book a little bit more. We happen to be reading it right now in my english class. I feel like I definitely have a better grasp of the book than most of my class now. Thanks Melissa! I'm loving the book club.

  • One thing I noticed was that Fitzgerald makes several references to flowers when talking about Daisy, most specifically in her name. We all view flowers as these precious, pretty little things that are meant for our enjoyment. But, when we finally take the flower, it eventually wilts and dies. Not only do I think this symbolizes Gatsby's need for Daisy that would most likely end in a loveless relationship like Daisy's with Tom, but also the general view of women in the book and the time.

  • You asked why a book about the American Dream is so hopeless: I bet that this would be a much more hopful book if it had come out of in a different generation. The "Lost Generation" of the '20's had been taught that the world was always getting better and that progress was inevitable, but WW I brought that idea crashing down around them. Western culture was in ruins; its promises had failed them; they were searching for something to believe in; literature of the era reflects that hoplessness

  • "come out of a different generation." Sorry. forgot to delete that "in". Anyway, I just wanted to add: thank you for posting these videos; I really enjoyed hearing your thoughts on this book, and I appreciate your taking the time to share them with us. God bless! :)

  • I think that the reason Gatsby and Daisy cannot be together is because life doesn't always turn out happy. The immigrants who came to America didn't really get all that they dreamed of. People who were poor during that time, it was a rare occasion for them to become rich or even move up to the middle class.

  • Never read this, Melissa, but I thought of something as I watched you talking about why Gatsby and Daisy nevergot together.

    Isn't the writer making a point about perfection? Isn't he saying perfection can't exist? One person idea of perfection is someone else's nightmare. Gatsby thinks Daisy's the perfect woman (which she isn't), and Myrtle sees Daisy having the perfect life (which she doesn't)... Isn't the book showing that perfection is flawed?

  • Also, you know Baz Lurhman's next project is another film adaptation of this?

  • You know, we were assigned this book my junior year of high school.

    I never read it.

    But I want to now.

  • your insites into Myrtle, though, I never thought about her that way, really interesting. So, yeah, thanks!

  • Hey, Melissa. First off, thank you for discussing this book, I LOVE IT!!! I think, personally, that in the Daisy and Gatsby relationship, Fitzgerald is analyzing this belief in the American dream. This unrealistic belief that everything always turns out perfect when, as harsh as it sounds, life doesn't go that way. Gatsby had a wonderful relationship with Daisy in his youth, and he's trying to rekindle that. Had he just let the past go, everyone would have been a lot happier. I especially like

  • I'm going to have to reread this again. Only read it once in high school.

    The only thing I remember is how Gatsby remained outside Daisy's window just to make sure she will not be hurt by Tom. I love that.

    I haven't thought about this book in years, thank you so much for talking about it! I

  • I read this book for two college classes. Loved it. One thing about the American Dream - this book is more about the corruption of the American Dream. Tom and Daisy have it, but don't appreciate it. They are never satisfied with what they have, but are always reaching for more. Gatsby has achieved the American Dream, but through illegal means. He is also still reaching, never satisfied, until (he thinks) he has Daisy. Then, of course, he dies, overstretched as things catch up to him.

  • I absolutely love this book! I think that it was one of my most favorite books that I read in high school english. My favorite quote comes from Owl Eyes "I've been drunk for about a week now, and I thought it might sober me up to sit in a library." He is my favorite character, along with Gatsby.

    On Gatsby and Daisy: "It is but a shadow and a thought that you love." Gatsby doesn't know the true Daisy.

    Oh, and we want to talk about the color yellow, lets have a go at Crime and Punishment...lol

  • I also love when Nick turns around and tells Gatsby how much better he is than the old money crowd. I love that.

  • Great videos, Melissa! I read Gatsby in high school and didn't like it, so I've never gone back to it. However, based on your discussion and all of the insightful comments here, it's clearly time to give it another try. Hopefully 15 years will have given me a new perspective on the book. :)

    As a side note, what's up with Leaky? I haven't been able to get in most of today and yesterday. Are you guys just working out some of the MyLeaky bugs, or have nargles attacked my computer? ;)

  • OOh, hopefully you'll have that great distance from it that I had, that helped me love it, too! REad it slowly and luxuriate in it!

    Leaky is having major growth problems. We're trying to fix it :( But Alex is laid up in bed and NickP is sleeping.

  • I understand! I hope Alex feels better soon. You've created a monster in me with MyLeaky; I'm even more addicted to hanging out there than I already was! :)

    I will definitely read Gatsby slowly, and I'll come back here to rewatch the videos and reread the comments so that while I'm reading, I can think about what everyone had to say. :)

  • Thanks for reminding me about my 401K jeesh! :) You make me want to read this book again, I don't think I appreciated it enough as a 14 year old.

  • Hah! Sorry about your 401K. At least you're not alone.

  • Yay for nerdfighterly books!

    My thoughts on the book:

    One of the reasons that Daisy and Gatsby can't get together, at least in my mind, was because of the years of separation. If you read some of Fizgerald's other short stories, he likes to explore this theme of people not being able to get back together after a period of time has passed. Also, as I think has already been mentioned, Daisy is too dim and not enough of a strong person to take a step and say what she really wants for certain

  • Daisy is a total wuss :D But it does speak to the era, too, and her social status. In her milieu girls were mostly, well, pretty fools, like she wants her daughter to be. The ease of money sometimes stops people from discovering their own potential. I have a feeling iwth some struggle applied to her life Daisy would turn out to be a marvelously manipulative and vindictive character.

  • Could you possible give "Walden", "A scarlet Letter", or "The Spell Book of Listen Taylor" a review?

    I know they are across the board but the last one I just recently read and could not put it down. The others are just classic reads and I like watching book reviews and your good at them.

    Of course your an author!

    :)

  • I'm going to look into Walden, which I've never read and of which I feel oddly bereft. :)

  • (and trust me, not all authors are good at reviews :D, but I'm thrilled you think I am good at them. People who think reviews have to be It Was Good Or It Was Bad, and shouldn't be about thinking fully and critically...well, I think They Are Bad.

  • Also extending on with Daisy's child she also views her as a threat. She cannot be smarter then her. It angered me.

    The symbols in this book are in an abundance but makes the motif really amazing. And not to mention the flow.

    Gatsby and daisy and the "green and perfect land" hardly is ever achieved that's just a fact of life. Life doesn't end happy like in fairytales. That's what you plan to hear but in reality that's not at all true.

  • That's really interesting about Daisy's child. I hadn't thought of her that way. I ahdn't seen Daisy as aware enough to be jealous, even of her own daughter.

  • The GREATEST American novel.

  • :D I'm glad you like it!

  • You're synopsis was terrific - just terrific. When I first read the book in high school I loathed it - I can't tell you how much I despised the book and everyone in it.

    Part 1.

    When I read it again while working my degree in Creative Writing (and we read it in "workshop-style" - as you may know when you study for a BFA or MFA in CW you not only discuss your own work in workshops, but you also "read literature" that way) I completely changed my mind.

  • Oops, I deleted part one! sorry!

    I was saying that I loathed this book the first time I read it and when I hit college and read it again for mhy BFA in Creative Writing, I completely changed my mind. It may have been because we read it "workshop-style," which means we approached the book the same way we approached our writing, in workshops. I was completely blown away by the book then.

    Your synopsis is terrific, just terrific. You capture major themes in the book with great detail ...

  • Okay, I undeleted what I deleted. But I wanted to continue by saying that It was a radical shift for me. Perhaps it was going through the book, page by page, paragraph by paragraph, line by line - sometimes even word by word - from the writer's point of view that changed me.

    I've read it and studied it many times since then and I do agree with you about the cover too. I just wish that someday, someone will be able to do justice to the book on film.

    It certainly is The Book for these days!

  • thanks for making this! gatsby is one of my all time favorites. i don't think that fitzgerald could let gatsby and daisy be together because that would mean he supports Gatsby's use of greed and corruption as a means to get what he wants. i feel that one of the major aspects of this book is fitzgerald's examination of and contempt for the corruption of the american dream, and by allowing gatsby to be successful in his pursuit of daisy he would be in a way supporting that kind of corruption.

  • It's interesting because a lot of people exempt Gatsby from his bootlegging. Maybe it's because prohibition was so inherently flawed, and overturned. But youer' right, Gatsby is a criminal, and we forget that because he did it in service to an ideal dream.

  • Ran out of characters.

    I like your thoughts on the class issue as it's presented in the novel too. "Old Money" vs. "New Money" is also a part of it. Not only the haves and have-nots. That's more in reference to Gatsby and Tom/Daisy though than Myrtle.

    I'm not a big fan of Myrtle... Poor Wilson.

  • The old and the new money are everything in this book - the social classes, the similarity in the garishness with which people act to claw out of poverty and try and bridge the gap between worlds... wow, I love this book.

  • Haha. Gatsby is a book that I love talking/thinking about, but didn't particularly enjoy reading. I should probably read it again. I think I'd appreciate and enjoy it more.

  • hah! I hear ya. it's so interesting to hear someone talk so much and w/ such enthusiasm about the symbolism in this story so many years later, after we were symbol-ed out in my high school junior year english class. at the time, it was forced reading and not so enjoyable, but now it seems like I might go back and try it again on my own time.

  • Why can't Daisy and Gatsby get together? Easy answer?

    Because Daisy is a JERK! She let's him take the blame for killing Myrtle and bails. Jerk.

    More complexly though, I think she's just a weak person, who for better or worse can't leave Tom. She's not a risk taker. Staying with Tom is safe and she would never have left him, no matter what happened.

    To be fair, it isn't Daisy's fault Gatsby saw her the way he did. I doubt there was anything she could have done to change his perception of her.

  • LOL. You are right. She is a jerk. But that's the other question: Why is she a jerk? Why does that work for the book? Why is she corrupted by money? Why has she changed from Gatsby's original vision of her - and HAS she or is he too blinded by the ideals of his (=the american) dream to see that?

    You're right, it isn't her fault Gatsby saw her that way. But her actions are still hers for sure.

  • We read this in English a couple of weeks ago. Though it's not my absolute favorite book ever, I did enjoy it. The language was brilliant, the ideas presented were perceptive, and the characterization was fabulous.

    Have you read Revolutionary Road? It's about the 'American Dream' as well, but is more brutal in its honesty about the times and such. I actually prefer that to Gatsby (not really for any reason, I just liked it better).

  • I haven't read Revolutionary Road, but I shall put it on my list!

  • Comment removed

  • It's obvious you are a person who loved English :)

    The detail with which you are getting involved with the story is nice to hear as most in the world no longer do this.

  • LOL - was it not obvious before?

    I want to do this more. Maybe I should make this a book discussion channel.

  • I finished reading this for the first time about a week ago, and it's been on my mind since I finished it. I always thought the cover was just something pretty to look at, but now, I can see that it holds so much more than a pretty picture.

    Thank you for these two videos!

  • When I was in high school I thought the green streak resembled snot. :D Yeah, I really didn't like that book in hs.

  • Wow, Melissa, I wish you had been my English teacher. Heck, I wish any of my teachers had been that passionate.

    Take care.

  • The only two social studies teachers I ever paid attention to were the ones who didn't rely on the blackboard or their notes, who wanted to discuss. Who treated high school students as worthy of insights and discussion time as college students. I hope more teachers discover how important that is.

  • I have to say, my first comment in your other video was true, but I really didn't care! I didn't know some things you were talking about, but I was fine just listening to you. You were so perfect in your words that I could not pull myself away!

    I had wondered about the cover before, I had seen it many places and wondered why it was always there.

    Thanks for it all!

  • It's such a marvelous cover.

  • The way Daisy treats her daughter reminds me of what Mommy and Daddy did to their 'Bumble' in Albee's "The American Dream", so I guess you can make of that what you will (the obvious cruelty of Mommy and Daddy was proof that they didn't see their child as a person).

    Also, have you ever thought about becoming an English teacher? That was brilliant.

  • I haven't read that Albee; interesting. I'll have to check it out.

    And, why thank you! I have thought about teaching one day.

  • When I first read the book, I never paid much attention to the cover. It's so obvious now!

  • "Never judge a book by its cover" may be true but so, also, is "Never ignore the cover!" :D

  • Hahaha, after all the HP madness, I don't think I'll ever look at any book covers the same anymore. Plus, I love how all the outlandish comments John made about the 7th cover turned out to be true.

  • This is brilliant, Melissa. I have loved this book ever since I first read it in high school for the reasons you talked about: the symbolism, the sense of hopelessness and the illusion of the American Dream. What an appropriate choice for a novel to read in these times, especially. It's amazing how literature and history from nearly 100 years ago can remain relevant still today, and anyone reading this for the first time can still relate to a character/idea presented here.

  • When we wonder why authors enlarge their characters to symbols, this comes to mind. To survive the ages, there has to be universality... I'm so glad people are enjoying talking about this stuff. I love geekdom. Or nerdfighteria. Or wahtever people call it. It's all the same wondrous dorkiness that makes us cool.

  • yay! i sadly don't own the book. but i will look for that cover when i do get it. :)

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