It's appalling that people as recently as the last century could be convicted with a crime as putrid and immoral as "heresy".
Even though these crimes no longer legal, I see from a depressing number of posts here, the ironage sentiment still lives on.
theists - seriously - sit down. THINK LOGICALLY about yourself. It's disgusting that in the 21st century, you STILL think you are created from dust, by a god who will let you be tortured if you don't unconditionally love him.
i met this man, I found him to be haughty and extremely arrogant. He negates and hates the christian religion and is more a buddist in his intellectual masturbation.
He is an academic no doubt. A heretic is someone who steps outside Christian doctrine- the Scriptures . We all have some heretic values. Once it was deemed worthy of execution. I'm glad we don't do that any longer.
In spite of his academia he is foolish if he thinks he can edit the scriptures to his own taste. 2 Tim 3:16-17 If Christ didn't rise again, the human race is lost.
He is an academic no doubt. A heretic is someone who steps outside Christian doctrine- the Scriptures . We all have some heretic values. Once it was deemed worthy of execution. I'm glad we don't do that any longer.
In spite of his academia he is foolish if he thinks he can edit the scriptures to his own taste. 2 Tim 3:16-17 If Christ didn't rise again, the human race is lost.
who cares about religion for fuck sake, we all die. Religion is the worst thing on this earth, it has cost billions of lives. All religion is, is a placebo.
Thank you for posting this video pppz0r. I am a distant relative of Lloyd Geering from Canada. (He is the spitting image of my dad and grandfather). We have the same nose. I know what I will look like when I am older. I am so glad that he is receiveing the respect he so greatly deserves. He is a great man and honest to a fault. That is the source of his trouble with fundamentalists.
Hi Guy's - I feel I have to agree with pppz0r, scripture is wonderfully interesting full of history, myth, law, poetry etc...
Lloyd Geering (along with Don Cupitt) is a very erudite scholar who has helped many make sense of scripture and given God a place in the modern world. Yes, it is radical and yes it is perhaps controversial but for many thinking christians he has given new meaning to the scriptures. This should be given respect and of course encourage polite debate.
I do not intend to play with words! Scripture is God's message to me. Bible shows me the way I have to live. It is to be taken seriously and as it is.
Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
Tell me matije7, do you take Lev 11:10, 19:27, 11:6-8, 19:19 as is? What about Deut 21:18-21, 22:13-21, or Ex 22:25, and Ezekial 18:13 , 117, and 22:12? If you don't, then you're not taking the Bible "as it is" at all.
The bottom line is that any unorthodox teaching is a heresy. The orthodoxy has to be based on the Scripture only. Roman Catholic Church before second Vatican Council have branded different christian movement as heretical but Catholic church is in itself one of the most heretical churches according to the Bible.
With all due respect matije7, Protestanism was coopted by poliicians ever faster than Catholicism was (you needn't further than Luther's disastorus flip flop over the Peaseants revolt for evidence). It utterly failed to institute a reign of Christian love, and instead led to centuries of bloody wars between Protestants and Catholics, persecution of Catholics by Protestants and vice versa, and violent struggles/persecutions within Protestanism itself Just look at what happened in Lutheran Germany
If the secular rulers had not embraced Luther you would have burning stakes even now. Protestantism brought freedom of conscience that Catholic church did not allow.
As for the 16 century German peasants, I would like to know how would you behave!
You do not have an idea what is the product of the New Testament (protestant) ideology! Al protestant majority countries are prosperous and Catholic ones are nothing special. Ireland is blessed because of the English dominion.
I'm not criticizing the peasents, I'm criticizing Luthor for supporting them and then later writing a vulgar tract in support of the princes (Against the Murderous, Thieving Hordes of Peasants)
Protestants persecuted other Protestants and Catholics as well. Freedom of conscience came out of the Enlightenement, not the Protestant Reformation
The New Testament books were written by Jews and one Gentile, not Protestants.
Finanancial prosperity has NOTHING to do with the kingdom. Jesus was poor and preached a gospel in large part to the poor, whom he called blessed Lk 6:20-26, 12:13-21, 18:18-25 Mt 19:23-24, Mk 10:17-25, Jas 1:10-11, 2:1-7, 5:1-11, etc. As for the "blessing" of English dominion, England split from Rome because Henry VIII wanted a divorce, a divorce so that he could marry a woman whom he later had executed. Further, both Henry and many of his successors brutally persecuted Catholics.
This is a matter of historical record, not faith. Alexander Briant, Edmund Campion, Ralph Sherwin, Ralph Corby, Robert Southwell, Thomas Holland and John Nelson are not even a fraction of the Catholics who found themselves executed, disemboweled and quartered under English-Protestant rule. Their dismembered body parts were often displayed on London bridge. Margaret Clitherow, a mother of three who was caught hiding priests, was stripped naked and crushed to death. Love your enemies indeed.
The heresy of Catholicism was to place secular ambition, power and prestige above the dictates of the gospel (expansions of papal power were more about politics than theology). Such is the heresy of Protestantism as well, and of the Eastern Churches. If you doubt this, take a course on Reformation/Post-Reformation European history. Power, money, control, external belief systems are all death to the gospel They make the Sermon on the Mount/Plain into pretty words that Christians can freely ignore
Luther sided with the peasents and then BETRAYED them to support wealthy princes
Weber argued that capitalism sprung from Protestantism. Considering the MASSIVE disaprities between rich and poor that capitalism has led to, I hardly consider Protestanism's role here admirable, much less Biblical.
Catholic "treason" was not accepting the state religion. You can't love your enemies by killing them, regardless of creed.
Read what Luther wrote against the peasents: "Therefore let everyone who can smite, slay and stab, secretly or openly, remembering that nothing can be more poisonous, hurtful or devilish than a rebel. It is just as when one must kill a mad dog." How is the preaching of brutal violence a Christian thing? Are you saying that it's ok for Protestants to preach murder but not Catholics? I say that they both have shared in the same heresy by rejecting peace and choosing imperial prestige instead.
"No Catholic was killed because of his religion." No serious student of history would make such an argument. This isn't a matter of faith, but fact. Flip through Reformation (Penguin History of the Church) by Owen Chadwick, A History of the Protestant Reformation in England and Ireland by William Cobbett, The Pelican History of the Church, volumes 2-4 of Cambridge Modern History, the Oxford History of the Christian Church. I could list more. You're making a faith argument against history.
I was not completely accurate that no catholic was killed because of his faith! Of course it happens but it was not in protestant teachings. Almost all were killed because they were collaborating with papists. i do not need to tell you what was the pope at the time!
"Of course it happens but it was not in protestant teachings" Take history seriously. Calvin, for instance, had so many people killed in Geneva that even Luther said of him With a death sentence they solve all argumentation (see vol 1 of A History of Christian Thought by Juergan Neve).
Also, are you suggesting that it's okay to disembowel and dismember another human being as long as s/he is a "papist"? So much for the "freedom of conscience" that you wrote "Protestants brought".
Luther switched to the princes because he doubted the likelihood of a peasant victory. Stop arguing that killing is a fine, Christian thing as long as Protestants are behind it.
Blessed are those who make others mourn.
Blessed are the warmakers.
Blessed are the violent and the invincible, the proud and the powerful, the domineering and oppressive.
Blessed are those who show no mercy.
Does that sound like Christ to you? If today you only knew the things that make for peace.
False brother indeed! The New testament is clear on the resurrection of Christ and of other big issues. The word "heresy" in the New Testament implies that somebody is a follower of a false doctrine.
The other meaning of this word are following: choice, a body of men, following their own tenets (sect or party), schismatic, factious.
given the outpouring of Christian unity witnessed this evening at Dunedin Town Hall, it is indeed useful to have such clear a heretical view of Resurrection so accessible for searchers
Geering never said there was no God. He claimed God is not what we commonly portray him to be, a supernatural being that sits above us.
TheMarathonomahos 1 week ago
This has been flagged as spam show
It's appalling that people as recently as the last century could be convicted with a crime as putrid and immoral as "heresy".
Even though these crimes no longer legal, I see from a depressing number of posts here, the ironage sentiment still lives on.
theists - seriously - sit down. THINK LOGICALLY about yourself. It's disgusting that in the 21st century, you STILL think you are created from dust, by a god who will let you be tortured if you don't unconditionally love him.
it's just stupid.
TheRealityofNature 4 months ago
Heratic Heratic
quantumphysics3 5 months ago
im related to the woman it's kinda scary!
Ghastlyfartest 9 months ago
i met this man, I found him to be haughty and extremely arrogant. He negates and hates the christian religion and is more a buddist in his intellectual masturbation.
stevenpeterse 11 months ago
I wear the term "heretic" as a badge of honour because heresy means free and independent thought.
sweetsweatyfeet 1 year ago
religion is an intangeble emotional solice for those who require it.the only thing divinitive about our world is life itself
castronic123 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
He is an academic no doubt. A heretic is someone who steps outside Christian doctrine- the Scriptures . We all have some heretic values. Once it was deemed worthy of execution. I'm glad we don't do that any longer.
In spite of his academia he is foolish if he thinks he can edit the scriptures to his own taste. 2 Tim 3:16-17 If Christ didn't rise again, the human race is lost.
KincumberBoy 1 year ago
He is an academic no doubt. A heretic is someone who steps outside Christian doctrine- the Scriptures . We all have some heretic values. Once it was deemed worthy of execution. I'm glad we don't do that any longer.
In spite of his academia he is foolish if he thinks he can edit the scriptures to his own taste. 2 Tim 3:16-17 If Christ didn't rise again, the human race is lost.
KincumberBoy 1 year ago
who cares about religion for fuck sake, we all die. Religion is the worst thing on this earth, it has cost billions of lives. All religion is, is a placebo.
ContactReal 2 years ago
Just light years ahead of the rest.. Wake up people this guy knows all about the facts
rivertonmuso 2 years ago 3
Heretics are those not backed with a sufficient array of battalions to render them orthodox.
lazyperfectionist1 2 years ago 3
Indeed!
GnosticAtheist 2 years ago
What a brilliant mind! :-)
DefenderOfReason 2 years ago
Thank you for posting this video pppz0r. I am a distant relative of Lloyd Geering from Canada. (He is the spitting image of my dad and grandfather). We have the same nose. I know what I will look like when I am older. I am so glad that he is receiveing the respect he so greatly deserves. He is a great man and honest to a fault. That is the source of his trouble with fundamentalists.
freebanking 3 years ago
Hi Guy's - I feel I have to agree with pppz0r, scripture is wonderfully interesting full of history, myth, law, poetry etc...
Lloyd Geering (along with Don Cupitt) is a very erudite scholar who has helped many make sense of scripture and given God a place in the modern world. Yes, it is radical and yes it is perhaps controversial but for many thinking christians he has given new meaning to the scriptures. This should be given respect and of course encourage polite debate.
Thanks for the response
wycliffe35 3 years ago 3
I do not intend to play with words! Scripture is God's message to me. Bible shows me the way I have to live. It is to be taken seriously and as it is.
Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
matije7 3 years ago
Tell me matije7, do you take Lev 11:10, 19:27, 11:6-8, 19:19 as is? What about Deut 21:18-21, 22:13-21, or Ex 22:25, and Ezekial 18:13 , 117, and 22:12? If you don't, then you're not taking the Bible "as it is" at all.
JFMJJ 3 years ago
Show me the Scripture brother. Either you can teach me or you can learn from me.
matije7 3 years ago
Scripture might be your god, but it's not mine.
pppz0r 3 years ago
@pppz0r Not mine either.
bchungdmd 1 year ago
The bottom line is that any unorthodox teaching is a heresy. The orthodoxy has to be based on the Scripture only. Roman Catholic Church before second Vatican Council have branded different christian movement as heretical but Catholic church is in itself one of the most heretical churches according to the Bible.
In Christ
matije7 3 years ago
Thanks for your fundamentalist perspective. You're exclusivistic understanding of Christianity is one of the most heretical I've encountered.
pppz0r 3 years ago
Remember all those times in the gospels when Christ walked about teaching the supreme importance of Biblical inerrancy? Oh, wait a minute...
JFMJJ 3 years ago
With all due respect matije7, Protestanism was coopted by poliicians ever faster than Catholicism was (you needn't further than Luther's disastorus flip flop over the Peaseants revolt for evidence). It utterly failed to institute a reign of Christian love, and instead led to centuries of bloody wars between Protestants and Catholics, persecution of Catholics by Protestants and vice versa, and violent struggles/persecutions within Protestanism itself Just look at what happened in Lutheran Germany
JFMJJ 3 years ago
If the secular rulers had not embraced Luther you would have burning stakes even now. Protestantism brought freedom of conscience that Catholic church did not allow.
As for the 16 century German peasants, I would like to know how would you behave!
You do not have an idea what is the product of the New Testament (protestant) ideology! Al protestant majority countries are prosperous and Catholic ones are nothing special. Ireland is blessed because of the English dominion.
matije7 3 years ago
I'm not criticizing the peasents, I'm criticizing Luthor for supporting them and then later writing a vulgar tract in support of the princes (Against the Murderous, Thieving Hordes of Peasants)
Protestants persecuted other Protestants and Catholics as well. Freedom of conscience came out of the Enlightenement, not the Protestant Reformation
The New Testament books were written by Jews and one Gentile, not Protestants.
JFMJJ 3 years ago
Finanancial prosperity has NOTHING to do with the kingdom. Jesus was poor and preached a gospel in large part to the poor, whom he called blessed Lk 6:20-26, 12:13-21, 18:18-25 Mt 19:23-24, Mk 10:17-25, Jas 1:10-11, 2:1-7, 5:1-11, etc. As for the "blessing" of English dominion, England split from Rome because Henry VIII wanted a divorce, a divorce so that he could marry a woman whom he later had executed. Further, both Henry and many of his successors brutally persecuted Catholics.
JFMJJ 3 years ago
This is a matter of historical record, not faith. Alexander Briant, Edmund Campion, Ralph Sherwin, Ralph Corby, Robert Southwell, Thomas Holland and John Nelson are not even a fraction of the Catholics who found themselves executed, disemboweled and quartered under English-Protestant rule. Their dismembered body parts were often displayed on London bridge. Margaret Clitherow, a mother of three who was caught hiding priests, was stripped naked and crushed to death. Love your enemies indeed.
JFMJJ 3 years ago
The heresy of Catholicism was to place secular ambition, power and prestige above the dictates of the gospel (expansions of papal power were more about politics than theology). Such is the heresy of Protestantism as well, and of the Eastern Churches. If you doubt this, take a course on Reformation/Post-Reformation European history. Power, money, control, external belief systems are all death to the gospel They make the Sermon on the Mount/Plain into pretty words that Christians can freely ignore
JFMJJ 3 years ago
I do not see a reason why you would criticize Luther if you wold not be different. If you think you would you are wrong.
Protestantism have taken the Bible as only authority for faith and it had different effect on society than Catholicism. Read Max Weber on this topic.
Catholics in 16c. England were killed because of treason and not because of their faith. Priests were agitating against the Crown!
Do not mix secular rule and Christian etichs!
matije7 3 years ago
Luther sided with the peasents and then BETRAYED them to support wealthy princes
Weber argued that capitalism sprung from Protestantism. Considering the MASSIVE disaprities between rich and poor that capitalism has led to, I hardly consider Protestanism's role here admirable, much less Biblical.
Catholic "treason" was not accepting the state religion. You can't love your enemies by killing them, regardless of creed.
JFMJJ 3 years ago
Read what Luther wrote against the peasents: "Therefore let everyone who can smite, slay and stab, secretly or openly, remembering that nothing can be more poisonous, hurtful or devilish than a rebel. It is just as when one must kill a mad dog." How is the preaching of brutal violence a Christian thing? Are you saying that it's ok for Protestants to preach murder but not Catholics? I say that they both have shared in the same heresy by rejecting peace and choosing imperial prestige instead.
JFMJJ 3 years ago
Did the peasants BETRAY Luther first???
Capitalism was proven to be the best but not perfect. Some supplements to capitalism we se in Scandinavian countries that are at high standard.
No Catholic was killed because of his religion. Romish religion was banned because it was militant and very dangerous for England and common wealth.
matije7 3 years ago
"No Catholic was killed because of his religion." No serious student of history would make such an argument. This isn't a matter of faith, but fact. Flip through Reformation (Penguin History of the Church) by Owen Chadwick, A History of the Protestant Reformation in England and Ireland by William Cobbett, The Pelican History of the Church, volumes 2-4 of Cambridge Modern History, the Oxford History of the Christian Church. I could list more. You're making a faith argument against history.
JFMJJ 3 years ago 2
I was not completely accurate that no catholic was killed because of his faith! Of course it happens but it was not in protestant teachings. Almost all were killed because they were collaborating with papists. i do not need to tell you what was the pope at the time!
matije7 3 years ago
"Of course it happens but it was not in protestant teachings" Take history seriously. Calvin, for instance, had so many people killed in Geneva that even Luther said of him With a death sentence they solve all argumentation (see vol 1 of A History of Christian Thought by Juergan Neve).
Also, are you suggesting that it's okay to disembowel and dismember another human being as long as s/he is a "papist"? So much for the "freedom of conscience" that you wrote "Protestants brought".
JFMJJ 3 years ago
Luther switched to the princes because he doubted the likelihood of a peasant victory. Stop arguing that killing is a fine, Christian thing as long as Protestants are behind it.
Blessed are those who make others mourn.
Blessed are the warmakers.
Blessed are the violent and the invincible, the proud and the powerful, the domineering and oppressive.
Blessed are those who show no mercy.
Does that sound like Christ to you? If today you only knew the things that make for peace.
JFMJJ 3 years ago
Heresy
Greek noun hairesis, adj. haireticos
Acts 24:14, 1 Corinthians 11:19, Galatians 5:2, 2 Peter 2:1, Titus 3:10, Acts 24:5,
There other examples of this word in more neutral way, like "sect of Pharisees".
matije7 3 years ago
That doesn't have quite the same meaning as the way the tradition defines it, which is how Geering employs it....
pppz0r 3 years ago
False brother indeed! The New testament is clear on the resurrection of Christ and of other big issues. The word "heresy" in the New Testament implies that somebody is a follower of a false doctrine.
The other meaning of this word are following: choice, a body of men, following their own tenets (sect or party), schismatic, factious.
matije7 3 years ago
The word 'heresy' comes from the tradition, not scripture. Tell me where 'heresy' is used in the Bible?
pppz0r 3 years ago
fantastic
roscoebrowne2 3 years ago
given the outpouring of Christian unity witnessed this evening at Dunedin Town Hall, it is indeed useful to have such clear a heretical view of Resurrection so accessible for searchers
barkwy 3 years ago
Orson WELLES
ANTICHITASCIPPA 4 years ago
sir,
Thank you so much for this posting - very interesting, as a theology graduate I really enjoyed this video.
Kindest Regards.
wycliffe35 4 years ago
You're very welcome. I am also a theology (almost) graduate. :)
pppz0r 4 years ago