stop the bullshit lies!!! we don't need to believe in hell or heaven or whatever. Live our life! Erase god from your mind, and you will meet true freedom
A 'TRUE' Christian can NEVER tell someone whether or not they are a 'TRUE' Christian because 'TRUE' Christians know that Christianity preaches of a PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD. Even I know that and Im not a Christian. Jesus.
As a side note, christ never said anything that is in the bible. It is a work of plagerism from older religions. There never really was a christ.
Atheists wrote the bible for political reasons. You just got brainwashed into believing it because that's the community you are in and perhaps grew up in. If you were in the middle east - you'd be a mulsim, if you were in India, you'd be a hindu, etc etc etc
Sorry Dude, but some people are former christians. A christian is anyone that believes that jesus christ is the messiah and they whole-heartedly believe that they are going to heaven. If someone believes that - then no longer does....they are a former christian.
This is NOT people that were using a church as a club. This means people that truely believed in the bible - and then later decided it wasn't truthful.
What is funny is that you only belive in the 'bible' becuase it was given to you.
Wow. I must thank you for giving me a few more verses that prove to me that your book is full of it. The problem with this teaching is while you are telling your fellow christians that they must accept the book without question while hoping that people of other faiths will ignore theirs and come to yours. Incedentally your god has apparently created me specifically for damnation. I am SO glad that I don't have to believe this anymore. Have fun worshipping that tyrant.
Yes, there are former christians - people who accepted christ , believed the bible, got "saved" and some even spoke in "tongues" . You can find them here on YT. For example LovingDoubt. They later rejected the claims of Christianity.
BTW, quoting the bible proves nothing. Holy books are written to enforce dogma, to keep believers in line. Quoting the bible is about as convincing to me as quoting Harry Potter to prove the existence of Hogwarts.
Why all the anger? If one thought they were a Christian and now finds it intolerable why be angry about it, go have fun, you've weighed up heaven and hell, found it to be silly....fine.
Why waste time being angry, you suppose yourself to be free so go be free and those who understand that they want to be a Christian just let them.
Do Really believe in talking Snakes, Donkeys? Virgin becoming pregnant BY A SPIRIT? Sorry, pal, this is the 21st Century. The age of REASONING and DNA.
Most of the Atheists I know are more versed in Theology than the Christians I know. That's the reason we're Atheists. I understand the historical contexts of your religion including why monotheism was successful at the time man conceived your god & why it was necessary for this god concept to change its personality to suit its contemporary followers throughout History. I don't stroke my ego or get defensive when shown idependent historical sources that contradict the validity of Christianity.
As a former Christian, I'm not offended that there are still Christians who still solicit their beliefs. I am offended that you presume to say you know me or know things about my past when you cleary don't. That is arrogance.
what blessings await you when people hate you and exclude you and mock you and curse you as evil because you follow the son of Man.When that happens,be happy!Yes leap for joy!For a great reward awaits you in heaven.And remember,their ancestors treated the ancient prophets that same way.Luke 6:22-23
I can't believe I used to agree with all of this nonsense...Oh my, did I look & sound as much like a lunatic as this character...I repent to humanity for allowing myself to be deceived. How can you judge a religion by its own bias text? It's funny, I was a holiness, tongue talkin, worship leader, seen "miracles", was passionately in love with Jesus, had a "personal relationship", but I couldn't ignore the inconsistencies any longer. If there is a god it's is not the god of that book of lies
Why must I judge that someone is a Christian "by this book?" It is your assumption (speek here only argumentatively as a supposition, I am in fact Bible loving Christian) that that book has God's word in it. Someone who doesn't hold your presuppositions is hardly bound to judge things by yours. You are simply locking yourself in the iron logic of a solipsism. You have a philosophical presupposition like Calvinism that is immune to independent falsification & explains everything w/in its walls.
Both, in proper context. I'm guessing you're crying "contradiction", but if you understood the teaching of this text you would understand there is no contradiction.
@bberchin Wow, you read "contradiction!" in that person's message where, for all anybody knows, this person wanted Biblical advice from a person who touts himself as an expert. Who's the insecure one?
@bberchin "but if you understood the teaching of this text you would understand there is no contradiction."
since you seem to be all for not backing up your claims, that means i can do the same.
all christians are wrong, the bible was writen by aliens and sent here long after it was writen.
now, as for your video, i stopped when you started reading from the bible, though i should of stop sooner. your argument is the "no true scotsmen" fallacy to the t. it is logically flawed and is worthless.
Good job bro! Wow...I'm just amazed by all these "former Christians" who never really believed the bible and its teachings, especially on the Christians security in salvation. They thought they were Christians...but according to the bible, where Christians get their teaching, they were never Christians.
Thank you- your obvious lack of intelligence, restraint, and ability to initiate an adult conversation has gotten you blocked. Go pester someone else.
Your faith is an invisible placebo. This is far from an adult conversation when you're so scared that there are christians losing their faith & finding out the truth about the bible that you're spewing garbage (probably copying "truthgroup"'s video) saying that we didn't believe in the teachings of the Anointed One, just because we don't anymore - UTTERLY RETARDED! You're saying that thousands/millions of current christians are not actually deserving of heaven & it's very evil!
Sickening belief? I think it's sickening you think you deserve anything but. Don't worry, I never wonder why Christianity is persecuted; the Bible is clear on that as well. I hope your confidence and arrogance pays off, but I'm willing to bet it all that it won't.
It's very sickening, sadistic, evil, immoral to belief & to promote the belief that people deserve hell! I said don't wonder why christianity is persecuted, because it's such an evil & discriminating belief, it deserves to be made fun of & hated. You CHOOSE to believe it and your circular logic is that the bible is proof that it is true.
Give me one reason, outside of the bible itself that the bible is the only written word of god.
Also, due to several hundred, if not thousands of Christian groups, I maintain that there is no such thing as a "true Christian". If this were at all the only true religion, then you'd think there would be agreement on the basic beliefs required of one. You are wrong, we can understand the bible, and because we understand it, we treat it as a mythology like any other.
Biblical is all well and good - but alas the the myth that it is the ONLY book that "god" ever wrote is the downfall of the whole "christian" argument. "God" is limitless and cannot be contained in one collection of disparate writings nor anything else. We are ALL Christ and therefore the notion of having to be "saved" is pointless. We are ALL one with that which ALL. Being aware of this manifests the epxerience of this - even on earth. Blessings to all.
Wow- how Zen of you. I stopped buying into that fluffy trash after college. The Bible does not "contain" God. It is His word; His special revelation to His people. It contains all of what He wants us to know about Him which, of course, is not everything being that He is eternal. Btw, being saved is certainly not pointless- you are a sinner and cannot be reconciled to God who is perfect and holy. Christ lived the life you cannot and paid the price for your sin. You need Him as much as I do.
Zen - now there's another fun concept. However, you're in no position to say who has "needs" or not. Happily my school of philosophy does not contain any condemnation clause - so by all means embrace your needs and believe what makes you happy m'love:)
I don't recall condemning anyone. You condemn yourself by your life of sin with no repentance and faith. That's empty and will end in certain death and hell. That may sound silly to you, but it would do you good to face up to your sin.
OK. I was never a true christian. I believed and spouted the same tripe that YOU spout, but you -- you arrrogant little dink -- tell me that I didn't know what I knew. Or that I don't know what I know now.
Yep, you are a worm -- and unworthy. But not for the reasons you spew. Think I'll ever come BACK to worms like you? You dink? You insulting little worm?
I don't think that JesusGod LIKES your crapping on the Ninth Commandment. He's WATCHING you ....
You don't have a very long memory it seems. Your words are full of it for those who are "sinful" and courting "death and hell" etc. etc. And it would also appear that you're not focusing on Yashua's words: "Judge Not Lest Ye too be judged". At any rate you don't sound at all pleased with your "I'm saved because I do things the right way" status. I'd suggest trying "fluffy" again but I think the real issue lies somewhere else...
Condemnation is the x-tian way of belittling people or trying to keep them within the fold. I could justify anything and use the bible to do it. How about self-mutilation, killing my parents or kids, killing unbelievers, believing in talking donkeys, dragons, unicorns, women being in subjection to men, gang raping women, the list goes on-and-on. The God, who 'DOESN'T CHANGE" sure did change a great deal between the Torah and the New Testament. Seems quite fickle to me. BAH-HUM-BUG!
This is your basic error - expecting people who don't see reality through a biblical lens to define what it means to be a "christian" from that perspective (the view you embrace.)
Consider how you similarly do not understand what it means to be a Muslim from the perspective of the koran's definition of reality and theology. You understand it from the perspective of your worldview. Then you'll see where you miss the mark.
But that's you making an assertion based on the bible's defining of terms and reality that we do not accept as authoritative so you shouldn't expect us to understand what it means to be a "Christian" from a theological rather than from a secular cultural perspective.
So you're confusing what the word Christian means from your worldview (and our former worldview) with what it means to someone who does not subscribe to that worldview (as we no longer do.)
We're simply saying we use to believe what Christians believe. Now you can say you're theology tells you that if we really did believe it, we would never come to reject it as we do now.
We don't believe the bible anymore so that wouldn't make any sense. We don't believe that we ever actually had a relationship w/ God as Christians or that anyone else with these beliefs does.
We do however mean that we used to understand ourselves as having such a relationship w/ God through Jesus Christ as Christians do.
This is simply a matter of what people mean when they say they used to be a Christian.
By Christian, they mean someone who believes what Christians believe.
When I say I am a former Christian, for example, I'm saying I use to believe what Christians believe.
What I and others do not mean - when we say "I use to be a Christian" is... we don't mean "I use to actually have a relationship with God through Jesus Christ like the bible says."
In this video you discredit other's one time belief that they were a christian and claim yourself as a christian. If they were able to believe that they were a christian at one point but not actually be, could you also not actually be a christian? If you are, how do you know?
Really, Jesus said he that hath Him, (already) has EVERLASTING life;;but he that does NOT have him the WRATH OF GOD abides in. GOD is HOLY, HOLY, HOLY; salvation is not by WORKS lest any boast, but by repentence & faith in Jesus Christ . Jesus the same yesterday, today and forever. Read the BIBLE
"BIBLICAL belief is sufficient. You cannot have true belief and be missing key biblical components of that belief like perserverance. You do not understand."
What you are saying then is that belief itself is not enough (even though John 3:16 says otherwise). You are saying that one cannot have true belief until they die, for perseverance cannot be determined until death. Therefore, you are not saved because you haven't yet persevered until the end.
An interesting little paradox, it seems, isn't it? That's what faith is, my friend. I have faith that God has saved me and that I will persevere. I have no reason not to think so. You proved He did not save you by abandoning the faith, but we can't be sure you aren't one of His until you die in your sin- I hope that doesn't happen. Did you know that we have, in essence, been saved 4 times- 1. God's sovereign election, 2. Christ's death at the cross, 3. the Spirit converting us, and 4. heaven.?
"I believed in Jesus Christ, nothing you say can change that fact."
How did you believe and you don't believe now? What did you believe? Did you understand what it takes to be a believer? The requirements to believing is trusting and following Christ, having a relationship. So are you saying you had a relationship with Christ, Circlekloser?
Because that relationship existed only in my mind. Just as your "relationship" exists only in yours. It feels very real, I know, but it isn't. Now that I am no longer a christian, I still experience the feeling of being connected to the universe.
"Because that relationship existed only in my mind. Just as your "relationship" exists only in yours. It feels very real, I know, but it isn't..."
Indeed, by your own confession it was only in your mind. But I, unlike you have walked the line of faith, God has allowed me to test faith and by testing faith it only grows stronger. Your "relationship" was only knowledge of the truth as you stated "existed only in my mind" that is the difference between me and you. You were never given faith.
You are claiming to know things that you can't possibly be sure of. You have faith that I didn't have faith. Just like I couldn't know (nor can anyone) that Jesus is god, but I believed, I had faith in him.
So actually, I never had knowledge, but only faith.
"You are claiming to know things that you can't possibly be sure of."
Sure I can make this claims and be sure of them, because the God I know exists says so.
"Just like I couldn't know (nor can anyone) that Jesus is god, but I believed, I had faith in..."
circlekloser, it's clear you do not know what knowledge is. It's even more clear you don't understand how faith works. How can you believe something without knowledge of it? And how can you have faith in something, you have never tested?
You can't know that god exists, that's why you have faith. If you knew that god existed, then you would have knowledge of his existence. Something no one has ever been able to demonstrate.
Of course, one could have false knowledge. Like a child who believes in santa claus.
My faith was tested and became very strong (as those who knew me then could tell you). My faith was so strong that nobody could convince me otherwise. It was the bible itself that injected doubt into my heart.
"If you knew that god existed, then you would have knowledge of his existence. Something no one has ever been able to demonstrate."
True believers have knowledge of how true saving faith is given and how faith works. I'm sorry to tell you, you did not have true saving faith. You had an idea of who a god was and it was not the God of Scripture, you played church, just as I did in my earlier years....
(cont) I do have knowledge of His existence, it's in the Bible and walking out faith. You didn't walk out faith because if you did, you would not be denying Christ. It's really not that hard to figure this out. You did not have some enlightenment one day or over several years that God doesn't exist... Your lack of faith and playing "Christian" simply caught up with you. It's very clear you do not know what a true Christian is.
This is even more proof you never were a believer. Because I assure you, I know for a fact the God of the Bible exists, the evidence for trusting Jesus Christ in my life has overwhelming amounts of evidence because like I said early I, unlike you, have tested and trusted faith and I have seen the results of trusting faith, you have not.
"Actually, I came to realize that the god of the bible is unjust. Even if he does exist I will still refuse to worship him."
I respect you more for this comment. You came to realize the God of the Bible is unjust, then it is truth then the god you thought you believed in was not the God of the Bible, the more knowledge you had, the more you saw who the God of the Bible was. Those things you think that are unjust, I believe God is not unjust to sinners...
"Then prove it. You are a charlotan. You don't know. You can't know. If you could know, then there would be no need for faith."
Now faith is the ASSURANCE of {things} hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1
I have assurance, you do not. I know I have assurance, I know God exists. I have conviction, you do not. You can't tell me I don't know God exists, sorry. When you have walked in my shoes, God is reality.
You aren't paying attention to "hoped for" and "things not seen" You believe in god, but don't have proof. I did have conviction. I felt in my heart what I once called the presence of god.
I CAN tell you that you don't know that god exists. What is your proof?
Furthermore, I can't tell you that you don't know that god exists, but you can tell me that I didn't believe?
"If I thought that I truly believed but didn't, then how would I know that I believed? "
It's not that hard, really. You can't say you believed and trusted God and saw evidence of what your faith produced, to only turn around later and say God doesn't exist. You can't do that with any other relationship, what makes you think you can do that with God?
Killing children is unjust. God killed children. Therefore, god is unjust.
I had faith. Telling me that I didn't is not a refutation. I believed in my heart and confessed with my mouth. My faith was tested and proved strong for years. What makes your faith different?
Also, if I wanted to have faith in god, but he supposedly didn't give me true faith, then why wouldn't he? I wanted to be saved. Why wouldn't he save me?
Well then, we can benefit no further from this discussion. Live long and prosper! I have just finished uploading a video. Right now it is being processed, but I hope that you will view it when it becomes available.
"Well then, we can benefit no further from this discussion. Live long and prosper! I have just finished uploading a video. Right now it is being processed, but I hope that you will view it when it becomes available."
"What part about us being sinners didn't you get, Steve. Our sin justifies God sending us to hell." - raggedy
Well, I am interested in the hell topic, but that's not what we're discussing here. We were talking about why it is just for god to kill infants or unborn babies.
"Well, I am interested in the hell topic, but that's not what we're discussing here. We were talking about why it is just for god to kill infants or unborn babies."
Why wouldn't it be just for God to kill a baby, Steve?
"Why wouldn't it be just for God to kill a baby, Steve?" - raggedy
Why do you refuse to answer my question. It's not a trick question. Just tell me why it's just for god to kill infants.
"I'm taking it your pro-life?"
Although you're throwing the red herring, I'll answer your question as straight as I can. For rape, incest, and life of the mother, I believe abortion can be justified. For most other reasons, I don't.
"That's justification? Because god has the power, he has the right?"
Though what you said is true, but how did you get that from what I wrote? I said they are sinners. The wages of sin is DEATH, and to be quite frank what is the difference if God sped up the process?
"Although you're throwing the red herring, I'll answer your question as straight as I can. For rape, incest, and life of the mother, I believe abortion can be justified. For most other reasons, I don't."
So you have a double standard then. A woman is allowed to kill life if it justifies her reasons, but God can not. Interesting, Steve
"A woman is allowed to kill life if it justifies her reasons, but God can not." - raggedy
Morality is relative. Difficult choices must be made sometimes. And, I don't envy anyone who has to make them.
But, what is morality to your god anyway? Is anything he commands mora
Well, god allowed the rape of young women. As a father, I see no morality in this, especially if it was my daughter being raped. And, I doubt you would either. But, I'll let you answer for yourself.
Steve, if you think you can figure out God's plan on how things went down or what He allowed by labeling it unjust, you are deceiving yourself. The rape story is old and played out.
This appears written without feeling. I have to admit that I also read these stories for many years without any real thought to the reality of them.
I'm sorry if I've been a little too personal by referencing your children in my comments. My only intent was to make the understanding more real. It wasn't until I had children that these things really began to bother me.
"I'm sorry if I've been a little too personal by referencing your children in my comments. My only intent was to make the understanding more real. It wasn't until I had children that these things really began to bother me."
Don't be sorry, I can do the same thing when making a point. For me it was just the opposite, having kids only has helped me in growing in faith. Take care
"The only evidence was in my heart. It was emotion."- That's why you were never a true believer. Also, please watch your language or I'll have to block you. Thanks.
"Are you suggesting that my faith was real until it failed? How do you know that your faith isn't like mine and you will someday reject it?"
No, your faith in an idea of a god, your faith was not saving faith that my God freely gives. We can keep going around this tree all night, but this is the last comment I will make on your failing faith.
By faith and fruit. I cling to God's promises and put my hope and trust in Him. My election will not be complete, temporally, until I die and go to be with the Lord. Election is secure, but because of time I must wait on God. Good question and hard to answer, especially when you don't know true faith.
"Good question and hard to answer, especially when you don't know true faith" - Brett
Here's the difficulty I have. You are assured that you are elect (or maybe pretty sure). But, how do you know that I did not at one time have the same assurance as you do now?
Maybe you will realize some day that you aren't elect. Then someone will try to tell you that their assurance is greater than what yours was. But, they don't really know what yours was like. Do you see the problem?
Of course I see the problem. The only thing I can say is that if for some reason I ever abandoned the faith I would prove that whatever faith or assurance I had was not true. Perserverance is a non-negotiable element of true faith in Christ; it also means one must see the end before it's final- that's part of what faith is all about. That's what I was trying to explain in my last comment.
"...it also means one must see the end before it's final- that's part of what faith is all about." - Brett
Then it's impossible for you to know for sure, seeing the end hasn't come for you yet, right? And if this is true, then what assurance do you really have other than what you perceive today, which might turn out to be incorrect?
So, you're saying that every day you walk out the door you are not sure if gravity will stop working and you float away? If you aren't worried about that, why?
I believed in my heart of hearts that Jesus had saved my soul. I was a true follower. I felt what I once referred to as the presence of god. Who are you to think you know my heart better than I? And furthermore, if I believed that I believed, but didn't truly believe, then how could I ever know if I truly believe or not?
I never presumed to know anyone's heart; not even my own. Scripture tells me you were never a believer.
"...then how could I ever know if I truly believe or not?"- You know when it is by the Spirit. If you abandon the faith, then you only knew by your own reasoning and emotion alone- that is very deceiving and we all suffer with that in many things and on many different levels.
What does it mean to "know by the Spirit?" How can we know anything beyond our own reasoning and emotion? I believed that Jesus Christ died for my sins. I trusted in god. Isn't that the gospel?
John 3:16-For god so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in him shall not perish but have everlasting life.
Perseverance is part of true faith. You did not persevere- your faith was false. You can believe all that the Bible says about eternal life and still not be a Christian. It's not something you decide to do or believe. It is an act of God alone that makes one a Christian and He keeps them to the end without fail, every single one.
Now I see. I have no choice in the matter. Even though I earnestly sought after god I could not be saved, because he didn't choose me for heaven. Instead he chose me for hell.
THAT is what precisely makes Him worthy of worship. ALL of us should be condemned to hell for sinning and falling short of His glory, but He chose to save some by His mercy through Christ who gave Himself up to make it possible. God maintained His perfection by justifying sinners without compromising His law and character. Also, don't be so sure you are chosen for hell- your life isn't over yet. You may still come to know the Lord in a saving way. The gospel has been spoken to you.
Choosing people to be saved who don't deserve it doesn't seem fair either, though, does it? Come on, are you that self-righteous that you think you are worthy to be in the presence of God's holiness being as sinful as you are?
Faith is not something you bring to the table and tell God you want to believe in Him now- that's not what the Bible teaches. Faith and repentence is given to us by God and He gives us the ability to believe on His time alone. We have no say in that, nor should we.
I will repeat: Choosing people for hell is neither merciful, just nor benevolent. Choosing from the damned a minority for salvation does not negate the injustice of damnation. I'm sure you will reply that we deserve to go to hell. But I will save you the trouble by asking: Why do we deserve to go to hell? For being born? Something that nobody requested.
Also, belief is something that is exclusively our own prerogative. No one, not even god, can rob us of that.
"belief is something that is exclusively our own prerogative. No one, not even god, can rob us of that."- You can believe that if you want, but if we're talking about the God of the Bible, it doesn't teach that. You so easily excuse your sin nature and then make things up which just aren't biblical. Still think you were a true believer??
No, you were not. You played Christian and deceived yourself and those around you until you showed your true colors. You were not of us and every word you speak now confirms that even more.
BIBLICAL belief is sufficient. You cannot have true belief and be missing key biblical components of that belief like perserverance. You do not understand.
ABDULR118 - Christ said (I believe it was to the Temple Leaders of the day) "I and the father are one". That personally interpolated himself unto the same spiritual plane as Jehovah, which was considered heresy; ergo he was pronouncing the authority of God; in order to do this (and make it more than mere pretence) he had to BE God incarnate.
actually i think in that exact passage he said my father is greater than all, and he meant one in purpose...not substance, according to my understanding
Abdulr118 - No I'm afraid your understanding is flawed. It was one of the reasons the Temple order had him condemned - personal/comparable association with Jehovah - heresy at that time. If someone said the same today (ie 'I'm God' etc etc), we would still look at him or her askance.
-They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us.-
I have a great link for all of you, talking about losing your salvation. I don't want this flaged, so just message me for it if, you want the website. It gave me a great deal of peace.
Since you are a Calvinist, I assume you believe that god predestined people to go to hell. Can you please explain how god demonstrates his love through the act of eternally torturing individuals he predestined to be wicked?
There is no such thing as a christ
TheSomnambulist06 2 months ago
I believe in predestination that God choses who he wants you are adopted in the family of God. God has mercy on whom he chooses
BiGMANJOE32 3 months ago
I use to be christian but now I've grown up
Man4Goodwill 4 months ago
why continuing spreading lies?
stop the bullshit lies!!! we don't need to believe in hell or heaven or whatever. Live our life! Erase god from your mind, and you will meet true freedom
pbotas 5 months ago
A 'TRUE' Christian can NEVER tell someone whether or not they are a 'TRUE' Christian because 'TRUE' Christians know that Christianity preaches of a PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD. Even I know that and Im not a Christian. Jesus.
ZacksEnder 6 months ago
As a side note, christ never said anything that is in the bible. It is a work of plagerism from older religions. There never really was a christ.
Atheists wrote the bible for political reasons. You just got brainwashed into believing it because that's the community you are in and perhaps grew up in. If you were in the middle east - you'd be a mulsim, if you were in India, you'd be a hindu, etc etc etc
JAWWDC 9 months ago
Sorry Dude, but some people are former christians. A christian is anyone that believes that jesus christ is the messiah and they whole-heartedly believe that they are going to heaven. If someone believes that - then no longer does....they are a former christian.
This is NOT people that were using a church as a club. This means people that truely believed in the bible - and then later decided it wasn't truthful.
What is funny is that you only belive in the 'bible' becuase it was given to you.
JAWWDC 9 months ago
Wow. I must thank you for giving me a few more verses that prove to me that your book is full of it. The problem with this teaching is while you are telling your fellow christians that they must accept the book without question while hoping that people of other faiths will ignore theirs and come to yours. Incedentally your god has apparently created me specifically for damnation. I am SO glad that I don't have to believe this anymore. Have fun worshipping that tyrant.
TheEmpiricalTruth 11 months ago
Yes, there are former christians - people who accepted christ , believed the bible, got "saved" and some even spoke in "tongues" . You can find them here on YT. For example LovingDoubt. They later rejected the claims of Christianity.
BTW, quoting the bible proves nothing. Holy books are written to enforce dogma, to keep believers in line. Quoting the bible is about as convincing to me as quoting Harry Potter to prove the existence of Hogwarts.
LoopQuantumGravity1 1 year ago
Why all the anger? If one thought they were a Christian and now finds it intolerable why be angry about it, go have fun, you've weighed up heaven and hell, found it to be silly....fine.
Why waste time being angry, you suppose yourself to be free so go be free and those who understand that they want to be a Christian just let them.
TR5T 1 year ago
Do Really believe in talking Snakes, Donkeys? Virgin becoming pregnant BY A SPIRIT? Sorry, pal, this is the 21st Century. The age of REASONING and DNA.
SOME of US Decided to WAKE UP.
flightkiller09 1 year ago
CHRISTIANS: MORE of the same...blah...blah...Sir. You say We KNOW the Bible!
flightkiller09 1 year ago
Dude, the one that's deluded is YOU! Yikes!
ole9421 1 year ago
Most of the Atheists I know are more versed in Theology than the Christians I know. That's the reason we're Atheists. I understand the historical contexts of your religion including why monotheism was successful at the time man conceived your god & why it was necessary for this god concept to change its personality to suit its contemporary followers throughout History. I don't stroke my ego or get defensive when shown idependent historical sources that contradict the validity of Christianity.
bencamp18 1 year ago
As a former Christian, I'm not offended that there are still Christians who still solicit their beliefs. I am offended that you presume to say you know me or know things about my past when you cleary don't. That is arrogance.
bencamp18 1 year ago
what blessings await you when people hate you and exclude you and mock you and curse you as evil because you follow the son of Man.When that happens,be happy!Yes leap for joy!For a great reward awaits you in heaven.And remember,their ancestors treated the ancient prophets that same way.Luke 6:22-23
ul2356 1 year ago
The Bible has being altered, Sorry, Be careful, The question is HELL Or Paradise...
Keep looking for the Wright MAP. Trust me the Book you are holding is not the MAP TO PARADISE...!!!
massidiot1 1 year ago
I can't believe I used to agree with all of this nonsense...Oh my, did I look & sound as much like a lunatic as this character...I repent to humanity for allowing myself to be deceived. How can you judge a religion by its own bias text? It's funny, I was a holiness, tongue talkin, worship leader, seen "miracles", was passionately in love with Jesus, had a "personal relationship", but I couldn't ignore the inconsistencies any longer. If there is a god it's is not the god of that book of lies
ThatsABiggon 1 year ago
Wow. Thanks for reminding me why I'll never step foot in a church again!
Enjoy heaven!
Staniel420 2 years ago
Why must I judge that someone is a Christian "by this book?" It is your assumption (speek here only argumentatively as a supposition, I am in fact Bible loving Christian) that that book has God's word in it. Someone who doesn't hold your presuppositions is hardly bound to judge things by yours. You are simply locking yourself in the iron logic of a solipsism. You have a philosophical presupposition like Calvinism that is immune to independent falsification & explains everything w/in its walls.
VictorLepanto 2 years ago
I don't know why I didn't watch this video sooner. However, it's a great thing that it's still up and running. Great video, Brett!
APSOC38 2 years ago
GAL 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.
GAL 6:5 For every man shall bear his own burden.
Which one should i believe? :S
TheWatcherGrigori 2 years ago
Both, in proper context. I'm guessing you're crying "contradiction", but if you understood the teaching of this text you would understand there is no contradiction.
bberchin 2 years ago
ok thanks for the explanation :)
TheWatcherGrigori 2 years ago
@bberchin Wow, you read "contradiction!" in that person's message where, for all anybody knows, this person wanted Biblical advice from a person who touts himself as an expert. Who's the insecure one?
bencamp18 1 year ago
@bberchin "but if you understood the teaching of this text you would understand there is no contradiction."
since you seem to be all for not backing up your claims, that means i can do the same.
all christians are wrong, the bible was writen by aliens and sent here long after it was writen.
now, as for your video, i stopped when you started reading from the bible, though i should of stop sooner. your argument is the "no true scotsmen" fallacy to the t. it is logically flawed and is worthless.
atheistnarutofan 1 year ago
Excellent!! "The problem with our modern culture, thinking, and mentality is that experience is creating truth." Thats true man...
2rowsChannel 2 years ago
Good job bro! Wow...I'm just amazed by all these "former Christians" who never really believed the bible and its teachings, especially on the Christians security in salvation. They thought they were Christians...but according to the bible, where Christians get their teaching, they were never Christians.
2rowsChannel 2 years ago
bberchin, you are a delusional retard.
sevven1 2 years ago
Thank you- your obvious lack of intelligence, restraint, and ability to initiate an adult conversation has gotten you blocked. Go pester someone else.
bberchin 2 years ago
Your faith is an invisible placebo. This is far from an adult conversation when you're so scared that there are christians losing their faith & finding out the truth about the bible that you're spewing garbage (probably copying "truthgroup"'s video) saying that we didn't believe in the teachings of the Anointed One, just because we don't anymore - UTTERLY RETARDED! You're saying that thousands/millions of current christians are not actually deserving of heaven & it's very evil!
Boxcutter7 2 years ago
1. I'm never afraid of truth.
2. I never heard of "truthgroup".
3. The Bible is clear about those who say they once believed and now do not; it's not my words.
4. No one deserves heaven; quite the opposite. All of us deserve hell, but God had mercy on some.
bberchin 2 years ago
That's some sickening belief you got there that everyone deserves hellfire - look, don't ever wonder why christianity gets persecuted.
Boxcutter7 2 years ago 2
Sickening belief? I think it's sickening you think you deserve anything but. Don't worry, I never wonder why Christianity is persecuted; the Bible is clear on that as well. I hope your confidence and arrogance pays off, but I'm willing to bet it all that it won't.
bberchin 2 years ago
It's very sickening, sadistic, evil, immoral to belief & to promote the belief that people deserve hell! I said don't wonder why christianity is persecuted, because it's such an evil & discriminating belief, it deserves to be made fun of & hated. You CHOOSE to believe it and your circular logic is that the bible is proof that it is true.
Boxcutter7 2 years ago
@bberchin Don't worry, we're not the ones searching for a reward.
bencamp18 1 year ago
Give me one reason, outside of the bible itself that the bible is the only written word of god.
Also, due to several hundred, if not thousands of Christian groups, I maintain that there is no such thing as a "true Christian". If this were at all the only true religion, then you'd think there would be agreement on the basic beliefs required of one. You are wrong, we can understand the bible, and because we understand it, we treat it as a mythology like any other.
bagpipeplayer 2 years ago
Biblical is all well and good - but alas the the myth that it is the ONLY book that "god" ever wrote is the downfall of the whole "christian" argument. "God" is limitless and cannot be contained in one collection of disparate writings nor anything else. We are ALL Christ and therefore the notion of having to be "saved" is pointless. We are ALL one with that which ALL. Being aware of this manifests the epxerience of this - even on earth. Blessings to all.
3investigators 2 years ago 2
Wow- how Zen of you. I stopped buying into that fluffy trash after college. The Bible does not "contain" God. It is His word; His special revelation to His people. It contains all of what He wants us to know about Him which, of course, is not everything being that He is eternal. Btw, being saved is certainly not pointless- you are a sinner and cannot be reconciled to God who is perfect and holy. Christ lived the life you cannot and paid the price for your sin. You need Him as much as I do.
bberchin 2 years ago
Zen - now there's another fun concept. However, you're in no position to say who has "needs" or not. Happily my school of philosophy does not contain any condemnation clause - so by all means embrace your needs and believe what makes you happy m'love:)
Fluffily yours,
Dave
3investigators 2 years ago 2
I don't recall condemning anyone. You condemn yourself by your life of sin with no repentance and faith. That's empty and will end in certain death and hell. That may sound silly to you, but it would do you good to face up to your sin.
bberchin 2 years ago
OK. I was never a true christian. I believed and spouted the same tripe that YOU spout, but you -- you arrrogant little dink -- tell me that I didn't know what I knew. Or that I don't know what I know now.
Yep, you are a worm -- and unworthy. But not for the reasons you spew. Think I'll ever come BACK to worms like you? You dink? You insulting little worm?
I don't think that JesusGod LIKES your crapping on the Ninth Commandment. He's WATCHING you ....
rumble54daddyo 2 years ago 6
You don't have a very long memory it seems. Your words are full of it for those who are "sinful" and courting "death and hell" etc. etc. And it would also appear that you're not focusing on Yashua's words: "Judge Not Lest Ye too be judged". At any rate you don't sound at all pleased with your "I'm saved because I do things the right way" status. I'd suggest trying "fluffy" again but I think the real issue lies somewhere else...
3investigators 2 years ago 2
Condemnation is the x-tian way of belittling people or trying to keep them within the fold. I could justify anything and use the bible to do it. How about self-mutilation, killing my parents or kids, killing unbelievers, believing in talking donkeys, dragons, unicorns, women being in subjection to men, gang raping women, the list goes on-and-on. The God, who 'DOESN'T CHANGE" sure did change a great deal between the Torah and the New Testament. Seems quite fickle to me. BAH-HUM-BUG!
Gr8Teaist 2 years ago 3
(5)
This is your basic error - expecting people who don't see reality through a biblical lens to define what it means to be a "christian" from that perspective (the view you embrace.)
Consider how you similarly do not understand what it means to be a Muslim from the perspective of the koran's definition of reality and theology. You understand it from the perspective of your worldview. Then you'll see where you miss the mark.
myintellectualjourny 2 years ago
(4)
But that's you making an assertion based on the bible's defining of terms and reality that we do not accept as authoritative so you shouldn't expect us to understand what it means to be a "Christian" from a theological rather than from a secular cultural perspective.
myintellectualjourny 2 years ago
(3)
So you're confusing what the word Christian means from your worldview (and our former worldview) with what it means to someone who does not subscribe to that worldview (as we no longer do.)
We're simply saying we use to believe what Christians believe. Now you can say you're theology tells you that if we really did believe it, we would never come to reject it as we do now.
myintellectualjourny 2 years ago
(2)
We don't believe the bible anymore so that wouldn't make any sense. We don't believe that we ever actually had a relationship w/ God as Christians or that anyone else with these beliefs does.
We do however mean that we used to understand ourselves as having such a relationship w/ God through Jesus Christ as Christians do.
myintellectualjourny 2 years ago
(1)
This is simply a matter of what people mean when they say they used to be a Christian.
By Christian, they mean someone who believes what Christians believe.
When I say I am a former Christian, for example, I'm saying I use to believe what Christians believe.
What I and others do not mean - when we say "I use to be a Christian" is... we don't mean "I use to actually have a relationship with God through Jesus Christ like the bible says."
myintellectualjourny 2 years ago
Rock on brother i could not have said it better
donlaura47130 2 years ago
In this video you discredit other's one time belief that they were a christian and claim yourself as a christian. If they were able to believe that they were a christian at one point but not actually be, could you also not actually be a christian? If you are, how do you know?
nonapotheosisable 2 years ago
Woah!
Loved the "wicked" glint in your eyes there Brett as you told them the truth.
He he he he heeee
Afrikitty 2 years ago
thank you brett... i was truely blessed by your video, and i pray that one day Armenians will come to realize and understand the truth, too.
rameljan 3 years ago
"Armenians"
lol
nightflight83 3 years ago
thank you brother for standing for truth
shieldsff 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Really, Jesus said he that hath Him, (already) has EVERLASTING life;;but he that does NOT have him the WRATH OF GOD abides in. GOD is HOLY, HOLY, HOLY; salvation is not by WORKS lest any boast, but by repentence & faith in Jesus Christ . Jesus the same yesterday, today and forever. Read the BIBLE
shieldsff 3 years ago
Ah, the beauty of religion. You can make up what ever you want and back it up by some creative interpretation of the Bible.
I was saved and baptized. I opened my eyes and saw that religion is a dangerous lie, sort of like this video.
AirplaneRider 3 years ago
"BIBLICAL belief is sufficient. You cannot have true belief and be missing key biblical components of that belief like perserverance. You do not understand."
What you are saying then is that belief itself is not enough (even though John 3:16 says otherwise). You are saying that one cannot have true belief until they die, for perseverance cannot be determined until death. Therefore, you are not saved because you haven't yet persevered until the end.
circlekloser 3 years ago
An interesting little paradox, it seems, isn't it? That's what faith is, my friend. I have faith that God has saved me and that I will persevere. I have no reason not to think so. You proved He did not save you by abandoning the faith, but we can't be sure you aren't one of His until you die in your sin- I hope that doesn't happen. Did you know that we have, in essence, been saved 4 times- 1. God's sovereign election, 2. Christ's death at the cross, 3. the Spirit converting us, and 4. heaven.?
bberchin 3 years ago
Then your faith may be misplaced, for you too could decide not to persevere. You may believe that will never happen (as did I), but you don't know.
I believed in Jesus Christ, nothing you say can change that fact.
circlekloser 3 years ago
"I believed in Jesus Christ, nothing you say can change that fact."
How did you believe and you don't believe now? What did you believe? Did you understand what it takes to be a believer? The requirements to believing is trusting and following Christ, having a relationship. So are you saying you had a relationship with Christ, Circlekloser?
raggedy80 3 years ago
Yes. I trusted Christ with all of my heart.
circlekloser 3 years ago
"Yes. I trusted Christ with all of my heart. "
So, you still believe then Christ is alive and exists?
raggedy80 3 years ago
Obviously not, or else I wouldn't have used the past tense.
circlekloser 3 years ago
"Obviously not, or else I wouldn't have used the past tense. "
Then you obviously didn't know Christ if you now think He doesn't exist. How can you deny the existence of someone you have had a relationship with?
raggedy80 3 years ago
Because that relationship existed only in my mind. Just as your "relationship" exists only in yours. It feels very real, I know, but it isn't. Now that I am no longer a christian, I still experience the feeling of being connected to the universe.
circlekloser 3 years ago
"Because that relationship existed only in my mind. Just as your "relationship" exists only in yours. It feels very real, I know, but it isn't..."
Indeed, by your own confession it was only in your mind. But I, unlike you have walked the line of faith, God has allowed me to test faith and by testing faith it only grows stronger. Your "relationship" was only knowledge of the truth as you stated "existed only in my mind" that is the difference between me and you. You were never given faith.
raggedy80 3 years ago
You are claiming to know things that you can't possibly be sure of. You have faith that I didn't have faith. Just like I couldn't know (nor can anyone) that Jesus is god, but I believed, I had faith in him.
So actually, I never had knowledge, but only faith.
circlekloser 3 years ago
"You are claiming to know things that you can't possibly be sure of."
Sure I can make this claims and be sure of them, because the God I know exists says so.
"Just like I couldn't know (nor can anyone) that Jesus is god, but I believed, I had faith in..."
circlekloser, it's clear you do not know what knowledge is. It's even more clear you don't understand how faith works. How can you believe something without knowledge of it? And how can you have faith in something, you have never tested?
raggedy80 3 years ago
You can't know that god exists, that's why you have faith. If you knew that god existed, then you would have knowledge of his existence. Something no one has ever been able to demonstrate.
Of course, one could have false knowledge. Like a child who believes in santa claus.
My faith was tested and became very strong (as those who knew me then could tell you). My faith was so strong that nobody could convince me otherwise. It was the bible itself that injected doubt into my heart.
circlekloser 3 years ago
"If you knew that god existed, then you would have knowledge of his existence. Something no one has ever been able to demonstrate."
True believers have knowledge of how true saving faith is given and how faith works. I'm sorry to tell you, you did not have true saving faith. You had an idea of who a god was and it was not the God of Scripture, you played church, just as I did in my earlier years....
raggedy80 3 years ago
(cont) I do have knowledge of His existence, it's in the Bible and walking out faith. You didn't walk out faith because if you did, you would not be denying Christ. It's really not that hard to figure this out. You did not have some enlightenment one day or over several years that God doesn't exist... Your lack of faith and playing "Christian" simply caught up with you. It's very clear you do not know what a true Christian is.
raggedy80 3 years ago
"You can't know that god exists"
This is even more proof you never were a believer. Because I assure you, I know for a fact the God of the Bible exists, the evidence for trusting Jesus Christ in my life has overwhelming amounts of evidence because like I said early I, unlike you, have tested and trusted faith and I have seen the results of trusting faith, you have not.
raggedy80 3 years ago
Then prove it. You are a charlotan. You don't know. You can't know. If you could know, then there would be no need for faith.
circlekloser 3 years ago
"Actually, I came to realize that the god of the bible is unjust. Even if he does exist I will still refuse to worship him."
I respect you more for this comment. You came to realize the God of the Bible is unjust, then it is truth then the god you thought you believed in was not the God of the Bible, the more knowledge you had, the more you saw who the God of the Bible was. Those things you think that are unjust, I believe God is not unjust to sinners...
raggedy80 3 years ago
"Then prove it. You are a charlotan. You don't know. You can't know. If you could know, then there would be no need for faith."
Now faith is the ASSURANCE of {things} hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1
I have assurance, you do not. I know I have assurance, I know God exists. I have conviction, you do not. You can't tell me I don't know God exists, sorry. When you have walked in my shoes, God is reality.
raggedy80 3 years ago
You aren't paying attention to "hoped for" and "things not seen" You believe in god, but don't have proof. I did have conviction. I felt in my heart what I once called the presence of god.
I CAN tell you that you don't know that god exists. What is your proof?
Furthermore, I can't tell you that you don't know that god exists, but you can tell me that I didn't believe?
circlekloser 3 years ago
If I thought that I truly believed but didn't, then how would I know that I believed?
circlekloser 3 years ago
"If I thought that I truly believed but didn't, then how would I know that I believed? "
It's not that hard, really. You can't say you believed and trusted God and saw evidence of what your faith produced, to only turn around later and say God doesn't exist. You can't do that with any other relationship, what makes you think you can do that with God?
raggedy80 3 years ago
"I CAN tell you that you don't know that god exists. What is your proof?"
Faith is my proof! Something you know nothing about.
raggedy80 3 years ago
"You're right. I believed in a god of justice, mercy and love. That is not the god of the bible. Killing children is unjust. 1 Samuel 15:3"
Okay then, end of discussion.
raggedy80 3 years ago
If you're willing to admit that the god of the bible is unjust, unmerciful and unloving, then I will be satisfied.
circlekloser 3 years ago
I did have faith. You don't know my heart. In the manner that you judge so shall you be judged.
Faith isn't proof. It is the act of believing something without necessary justification.
circlekloser 3 years ago
" I did have faith. You don't know my heart. In the manner that you judge so..."
Not the faith my God gives, sorry
"If you're willing to admit that the god of the bible is unjust, unmerciful and unloving, then I will be satisfied. "
Well then you will be very dissatisfied. God is just in every way.
"The only evidence was in my heart. It was emotion. How do you know that your belief is true belief?"
Because I have true faith and God causes it to be tested, and He has been proven faithful.
raggedy80 3 years ago
Killing children is unjust. God killed children. Therefore, god is unjust.
I had faith. Telling me that I didn't is not a refutation. I believed in my heart and confessed with my mouth. My faith was tested and proved strong for years. What makes your faith different?
Also, if I wanted to have faith in god, but he supposedly didn't give me true faith, then why wouldn't he? I wanted to be saved. Why wouldn't he save me?
circlekloser 3 years ago
"Killing children is unjust. God killed children. Therefore, god is unjust."
Who says a Holy God killing sinful children is unjust?
raggedy80 3 years ago
Infants are incapable of sinning.
circlekloser 3 years ago
Infants are incapable of sin.
circlekloser 3 years ago
"Infants are incapable of sin. "
Lol, you obviously have never had kids. But yes they are, they are born into sin.
raggedy80 3 years ago
An infant can do nothing but eat, sleep, cry and excrete.
You probably believe that life begins at conception. Are children who are still in the womb capable of sin?
circlekloser 3 years ago
"You probably believe that life begins at conception. Are children who are still in the womb capable of sin? "
Life does begin at conception. And I don't know how God judges a baby or a baby in the womb, bottom line is you don't get to tell Him how He judges.
raggedy80 3 years ago
If god killed a person who did not sin, then god is unjust.
Would you kill a child if god asked it of you?
circlekloser 3 years ago
"Would you kill a child if god asked it of you? "
Lol, I'm going to leave you guessing on that one, circlekloser.
raggedy80 3 years ago
"If god killed a person who did not sin, then god is unjust."
Who are you implying did not sin?
raggedy80 3 years ago
The infants and unborn children that god commanded the Israelites to kill.
circlekloser 3 years ago
"If god killed a person who did not sin, then god is unjust."
Sorry, but you are assuming infants and unborn children are not sinners, you need to studying the doctrines of Original Sin and Imputation.
Let me ask you like I ask Steve. Are women justified in killing their unborn babies?
raggedy80 3 years ago
To punish someone for a crime they did not commit is unjust. The doctrine of original sin is unjust.
This discussion is about god's justice not abortion.
circlekloser 3 years ago
"This discussion is about god's justice not abortion."
Just answer the question please, I have a point behind it.
Are women justified in killing their unborn babies? And why?
raggedy80 3 years ago
Honestly, I don't know. I think that abortion is a horrible thing, but I am unsure if a zygote is a conscious life form.
circlekloser 3 years ago
"Honestly, I don't know. I think that abortion is a horrible thing, but I am unsure if a zygote is a conscious life form."
Nice way to dodge. Well with that answer, what makes you think you can understand God being just in how He deals with sinners?
raggedy80 3 years ago
To punish someone for a crime they did not commit is unjust. The doctrine of original sin is unjust.
circlekloser 3 years ago 2
"To punish someone for a crime they did not commit is unjust. The doctrine of original sin is unjust."
Lol, okay. What can I say to that? Other then I'm sorry you think that way, because I find no injustices in those doctrines, sorry.
raggedy80 3 years ago
Well then, we can benefit no further from this discussion. Live long and prosper! I have just finished uploading a video. Right now it is being processed, but I hope that you will view it when it becomes available.
circlekloser 3 years ago 2
"Well then, we can benefit no further from this discussion. Live long and prosper! I have just finished uploading a video. Right now it is being processed, but I hope that you will view it when it becomes available."
Sure, I would be glad to. Take care.
raggedy80 3 years ago
"To punish someone for a crime they did not commit is unjust"
But you "honestly" don't know if a mother killing an innocent baby is unjust? That is interesting.
raggedy80 3 years ago
"Who says a Holy God killing sinful children is unjust? " - raggedy
You know what, these non-answers demonstrate nothing. Demonstrate how it is just to kill children...that's logic.
crazypills2 3 years ago
"You know what, these non-answers demonstrate nothing. Demonstrate how it is just to kill children...that's logic."
Logic? What makes you think God functions by our idea of logic? We are the sinners, He is the Holy God. Period.
raggedy80 3 years ago
"Logic? What makes you think God functions by our idea of logic? We are the sinners, He is the Holy God. Period." - raggedy
So god is illogical? This is getting good....
crazypills2 3 years ago
"So god is illogical? This is getting good...."
No, God is God, and He doesn't need your or my approval to do anything.
raggedy80 3 years ago
"No, God is God, and He doesn't need your or my approval to do anything" - raggedy
That's your answer? How can you follow something that you can justify logically?
crazypills2 3 years ago
"That's your answer? How can you follow something that you can justify logically?"
What part about us being sinners didn't you get, Steve. Our sin justifies God sending us to hell. Seriously, what don't you get?
raggedy80 3 years ago
"What part about us being sinners didn't you get, Steve. Our sin justifies God sending us to hell." - raggedy
Well, I am interested in the hell topic, but that's not what we're discussing here. We were talking about why it is just for god to kill infants or unborn babies.
crazypills2 3 years ago
"Well, I am interested in the hell topic, but that's not what we're discussing here. We were talking about why it is just for god to kill infants or unborn babies."
Why wouldn't it be just for God to kill a baby, Steve?
I'm taking it your pro-life?
raggedy80 3 years ago
"Why wouldn't it be just for God to kill a baby, Steve?" - raggedy
Why do you refuse to answer my question. It's not a trick question. Just tell me why it's just for god to kill infants.
"I'm taking it your pro-life?"
Although you're throwing the red herring, I'll answer your question as straight as I can. For rape, incest, and life of the mother, I believe abortion can be justified. For most other reasons, I don't.
crazypills2 3 years ago
"Why do you refuse to answer my question. It's not a trick question. Just tell me why it's just for god to kill infants."
Are you blind Steve? I answered it. Because they are sinners like you and me.
raggedy80 3 years ago
"I answered it. Because they are sinners like you and me." - raggedy
That's justification? Because god has the power, he has the right?
crazypills2 3 years ago
"That's justification? Because god has the power, he has the right?"
Though what you said is true, but how did you get that from what I wrote? I said they are sinners. The wages of sin is DEATH, and to be quite frank what is the difference if God sped up the process?
raggedy80 3 years ago
"The wages of sin is DEATH, and to be quite frank what is the difference if God sped up the process?" - raggedy
You're a father, you answer it from that perspective.
crazypills2 3 years ago
"Although you're throwing the red herring, I'll answer your question as straight as I can. For rape, incest, and life of the mother, I believe abortion can be justified. For most other reasons, I don't."
So you have a double standard then. A woman is allowed to kill life if it justifies her reasons, but God can not. Interesting, Steve
raggedy80 3 years ago
"A woman is allowed to kill life if it justifies her reasons, but God can not." - raggedy
Morality is relative. Difficult choices must be made sometimes. And, I don't envy anyone who has to make them.
But, what is morality to your god anyway? Is anything he commands mora
Well, god allowed the rape of young women. As a father, I see no morality in this, especially if it was my daughter being raped. And, I doubt you would either. But, I'll let you answer for yourself.
crazypills2 3 years ago
Steve, if you think you can figure out God's plan on how things went down or what He allowed by labeling it unjust, you are deceiving yourself. The rape story is old and played out.
raggedy80 3 years ago
"The rape story is old and played out." - raggedy
This appears written without feeling. I have to admit that I also read these stories for many years without any real thought to the reality of them.
I'm sorry if I've been a little too personal by referencing your children in my comments. My only intent was to make the understanding more real. It wasn't until I had children that these things really began to bother me.
Well, I'm off to bed.
Take care,
Steve
crazypills2 3 years ago
"I'm sorry if I've been a little too personal by referencing your children in my comments. My only intent was to make the understanding more real. It wasn't until I had children that these things really began to bother me."
Don't be sorry, I can do the same thing when making a point. For me it was just the opposite, having kids only has helped me in growing in faith. Take care
raggedy80 3 years ago
"Well then you will be very dissatisfied. God is just in every way." - raggedy
I notice that you failed to address whether god was merciful and loving.
crazypills2 3 years ago
"I notice that you failed to address whether god was merciful and loving."
He is merciful and loving. Do we need to go through the Doctrines of Grace, Steve?
raggedy80 3 years ago
"He is merciful and loving. Do we need to go through the Doctrines of Grace, Steve?" - raggedy
To all?
crazypills2 3 years ago
The only evidence was in my heart. It was emotion. How do you know that your belief is true belief?
circlekloser 3 years ago
"The only evidence was in my heart. It was emotion."- That's why you were never a true believer. Also, please watch your language or I'll have to block you. Thanks.
bberchin 3 years ago
What makes your faith different then mine? Do you have evidence other than faith for your belief?
circlekloser 3 years ago
"What makes your faith different then mine? Do you have evidence other than faith for your belief?"
The difference is I still have mine, because the faith my God gives in unfailing.
raggedy80 3 years ago
Are you suggesting that my faith was real until it failed? How do you know that your faith isn't like mine and you will someday reject it?
circlekloser 3 years ago
"Are you suggesting that my faith was real until it failed? How do you know that your faith isn't like mine and you will someday reject it?"
No, your faith in an idea of a god, your faith was not saving faith that my God freely gives. We can keep going around this tree all night, but this is the last comment I will make on your failing faith.
raggedy80 3 years ago
"That's why you were never a true believer. " - Brett
Hey Brett, Ihow do you absolutely, 100% know that you are elect?
crazypills2 3 years ago
By faith and fruit. I cling to God's promises and put my hope and trust in Him. My election will not be complete, temporally, until I die and go to be with the Lord. Election is secure, but because of time I must wait on God. Good question and hard to answer, especially when you don't know true faith.
bberchin 3 years ago
"Good question and hard to answer, especially when you don't know true faith" - Brett
Here's the difficulty I have. You are assured that you are elect (or maybe pretty sure). But, how do you know that I did not at one time have the same assurance as you do now?
Maybe you will realize some day that you aren't elect. Then someone will try to tell you that their assurance is greater than what yours was. But, they don't really know what yours was like. Do you see the problem?
crazypills2 3 years ago
Of course I see the problem. The only thing I can say is that if for some reason I ever abandoned the faith I would prove that whatever faith or assurance I had was not true. Perserverance is a non-negotiable element of true faith in Christ; it also means one must see the end before it's final- that's part of what faith is all about. That's what I was trying to explain in my last comment.
bberchin 3 years ago
"...it also means one must see the end before it's final- that's part of what faith is all about." - Brett
Then it's impossible for you to know for sure, seeing the end hasn't come for you yet, right? And if this is true, then what assurance do you really have other than what you perceive today, which might turn out to be incorrect?
crazypills2 3 years ago
So, you're saying that every day you walk out the door you are not sure if gravity will stop working and you float away? If you aren't worried about that, why?
bberchin 3 years ago
"So, you're saying that every day you walk out the door you are not sure if gravity will stop working and you float away?" - Brett
So you believe that knowing you're elect is the same as knowing gravity operates? There's the same level of evidence for both?
At the judgment, there will be no who thought they were elect but got it wrong?
crazypills2 3 years ago
You're right. I believed in a god of justice, mercy and love. That is not the god of the bible. Killing children is unjust. 1 Samuel 15:3
circlekloser 3 years ago
Actually, I came to realize that the god of the bible is unjust. Even if he does exist I will still refuse to worship him.
circlekloser 3 years ago
I believed in my heart of hearts that Jesus had saved my soul. I was a true follower. I felt what I once referred to as the presence of god. Who are you to think you know my heart better than I? And furthermore, if I believed that I believed, but didn't truly believe, then how could I ever know if I truly believe or not?
circlekloser 3 years ago
I never presumed to know anyone's heart; not even my own. Scripture tells me you were never a believer.
"...then how could I ever know if I truly believe or not?"- You know when it is by the Spirit. If you abandon the faith, then you only knew by your own reasoning and emotion alone- that is very deceiving and we all suffer with that in many things and on many different levels.
bberchin 3 years ago
What does it mean to "know by the Spirit?" How can we know anything beyond our own reasoning and emotion? I believed that Jesus Christ died for my sins. I trusted in god. Isn't that the gospel?
John 3:16-For god so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in him shall not perish but have everlasting life.
circlekloser 3 years ago
Perseverance is part of true faith. You did not persevere- your faith was false. You can believe all that the Bible says about eternal life and still not be a Christian. It's not something you decide to do or believe. It is an act of God alone that makes one a Christian and He keeps them to the end without fail, every single one.
bberchin 3 years ago
Now I see. I have no choice in the matter. Even though I earnestly sought after god I could not be saved, because he didn't choose me for heaven. Instead he chose me for hell.
Such a god is not worthy of worship.
circlekloser 3 years ago
THAT is what precisely makes Him worthy of worship. ALL of us should be condemned to hell for sinning and falling short of His glory, but He chose to save some by His mercy through Christ who gave Himself up to make it possible. God maintained His perfection by justifying sinners without compromising His law and character. Also, don't be so sure you are chosen for hell- your life isn't over yet. You may still come to know the Lord in a saving way. The gospel has been spoken to you.
bberchin 3 years ago
Choosing people for hell is neither merciful, just nor benevolent.
Also, if god wouldn't save me when I believed in his son, then why would/how could he save me now that I believe he doesn't exist?
circlekloser 3 years ago
Choosing people to be saved who don't deserve it doesn't seem fair either, though, does it? Come on, are you that self-righteous that you think you are worthy to be in the presence of God's holiness being as sinful as you are?
Faith is not something you bring to the table and tell God you want to believe in Him now- that's not what the Bible teaches. Faith and repentence is given to us by God and He gives us the ability to believe on His time alone. We have no say in that, nor should we.
bberchin 3 years ago
I will repeat: Choosing people for hell is neither merciful, just nor benevolent. Choosing from the damned a minority for salvation does not negate the injustice of damnation. I'm sure you will reply that we deserve to go to hell. But I will save you the trouble by asking: Why do we deserve to go to hell? For being born? Something that nobody requested.
Also, belief is something that is exclusively our own prerogative. No one, not even god, can rob us of that.
circlekloser 3 years ago
"belief is something that is exclusively our own prerogative. No one, not even god, can rob us of that."- You can believe that if you want, but if we're talking about the God of the Bible, it doesn't teach that. You so easily excuse your sin nature and then make things up which just aren't biblical. Still think you were a true believer??
bberchin 3 years ago
Emphasis on past tense. I WAS a believer.
circlekloser 3 years ago
No, you were not. You played Christian and deceived yourself and those around you until you showed your true colors. You were not of us and every word you speak now confirms that even more.
bberchin 3 years ago
Since you don't believe that belief is sufficient for salvation, please tell me what you believe is.
circlekloser 3 years ago
BIBLICAL belief is sufficient. You cannot have true belief and be missing key biblical components of that belief like perserverance. You do not understand.
bberchin 3 years ago
Brilliant! I agree tinyurl(dot)com/9y9xq3
dmarvin811 3 years ago
could you please provide me a statement from the mouth of Jesus(pbuh) where he says "I am God" or "worship me", and do you agree with this verse
2 Timothy 3:16 (New International Version)
16All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
please reply via private message
abdulr118 3 years ago
ABDULR118 - Christ said (I believe it was to the Temple Leaders of the day) "I and the father are one". That personally interpolated himself unto the same spiritual plane as Jehovah, which was considered heresy; ergo he was pronouncing the authority of God; in order to do this (and make it more than mere pretence) he had to BE God incarnate.
MatlockJack 3 years ago
actually i think in that exact passage he said my father is greater than all, and he meant one in purpose...not substance, according to my understanding
abdulr118 3 years ago
Abdulr118 - No I'm afraid your understanding is flawed. It was one of the reasons the Temple order had him condemned - personal/comparable association with Jehovah - heresy at that time. If someone said the same today (ie 'I'm God' etc etc), we would still look at him or her askance.
MatlockJack 3 years ago
1 John 2:19 (NASB)
-They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us.-
Calvinist4Christ 3 years ago
Amen, Calvinist4Christ!
bberchin 3 years ago
I have a great link for all of you, talking about losing your salvation. I don't want this flaged, so just message me for it if, you want the website. It gave me a great deal of peace.
Auvrith 3 years ago
Since you are a Calvinist, I assume you believe that god predestined people to go to hell. Can you please explain how god demonstrates his love through the act of eternally torturing individuals he predestined to be wicked?
crazypills2 3 years ago
Why should God predestine anyone to saved? Do we deserve it?
bberchin 3 years ago
"Why should God predestine anyone to saved? Do we deserve it?"
Very poor attempt to dodge the question. In case you forgot, here it is again:
How does eternal torture demonstrate love?
crazypills2 3 years ago