damn, that is one fucked up religion you got stuck with. writing about it is very therapeutic. i feel sorry for the ones who don't have the will, strength, or opportunity to get away from such a cult, reminds me of something from the puritans 350 years ago... wow.
U're quite brilliant. What a great loss that will be suffered if you don't examine the evil in what you have experienced and account it not to God but to man. If we were not capable of such evils as free willed creations of a great designer than what need is there of him. Truth is we are absent every good thing w/out God&even the things which you claim as ur own are gifts from Him. What an incredible force u would be for truth if u sought its face genuinely w/out bitterness, anger or resentment.
Everytime my church calls over here at my house i just feel real anxious,and real sad each time.My family say i am just drama queen but they never had to go through the hell i did when i was attending church that angie went through.In fact gerrie lady that she talking about was one of the people that i once met and i felt negative feeling about her.It hurts thinking about what i went through.
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Jesus loves you Angela it wasnt him who judged you or hated you. I know you have alot of pain not only physically but in your heart those scars are going to be healed by Jesus's blood he is our only hope I had commented on one of your videos before and if I offended I didnt mean to come across that way not every church is that horrible God convicts us diffrently and will help us through anything I pray you will so this one thing just sit wherever you are and call Jesus by name to speak to you.
@godofthemoon Jesus Christ is Emmanuel God With Us Im not arguing just stating Gods Word believe or dont its your choice. Dont exspect a comment back I wont be arguing with you its my belief.
to rtubervoice, for some reason I don't see your last comment below. Actually I can't claim credit for the analogy of the invisible dragon in the garage. That's Carl Sagan. Should have credited him, but so little room allowed on these responses. However, (to paraphrase) your suggestion that such a being could just be a neurotic figment of my imagination is a plausible suggestion (were it not someone else's analogy) and likewise it is my suggestion that God is the same to believers--imagination.
to rtubervoice, for some reason I don't see your last comment below. Actually I can't claim credit for the analogy of the invisible dragon in the garage. That's Carl Sagan. Should have credited him, but so little room allowed on these responses. However, (to paraphrase) your suggestion that such a being could just be a neurotic figment of my imagination is a plausible suggestion (were it not someone else's analogy) and likewise it is my suggestion that God is the same to believers--imagination.
@rtubervoice Possibility? Sure, I admit the POSSIBILITY. I admit the possibility of many things, but that doesn't mean I believe them. It's also possible I have an invisible, incorporeal, silent dragon in my garage, that doesn't require any food, leaves no waste, floats in the air, is absolutely silent, and has no smell or heat emissions as well. If I tell you this, and perhaps claim philosophical arguments and "historical evidence," would you just believe it?
@rtubervoice Oh--for a minute I thought you were being satirical. I sat down and glanced for a moment at your "name"--and thought for a split second it said "ruberoom"--like "rubber room".
Satan, demons and the like are just myths designed to keep us in a state of fear so that we will believe things without evidence, listen when the priest tells us what to think, and tithe generously. Wake up! Think for yourself, and learn to apply some standards of evidence to what you have been told.
@rtubervoice "Harsh rules" don't begin to cover it, or have you slaughtered a dove to make up for your "uncleanliness" of having your period this month? Hate to be so crude, but the Bible is far cruder.
And you know, I came up with that little piece of psuedo-feminist extra-biblical heretical theology myself as a Christian. But the Bible god is clearly male & clearly hates women. That's not "harsh" it's abusive.
@rtubervoice If love is your motive, then I will try to speak in kind. Being Christian made me feel abused, unloved, unlovable. I felt dirty, sinful, unclean, and unforgiven. Yes, yes, I know Christ forgives sins. I've read the Bible too many times to believe it. The god of the Bible is vindictive, petty, jealous and cruel. Jesus offers hell to those who won't believe a book cobbled, edited, & intentionally changed over the years by men. Seems he's little better than Jehovah. I am happy now.
@AngieAntiTheist cause god give me a life. god give me a family,god give me everything. i was in a situation where my life was sensless.. god helped me. and do you know what? when i think about god..it helps me. god protect me and honestly? god is everything for me. im a moslem and i dont believe in god cause i must,i believe in god cause i want this. i would really do everything that you could believe in god like me. you will feel this awesome feeling when you would believe in god.
Last question for today. We have the word "cult"--but do you believe there is a qualitative difference between a "cult" and a "religion"--or is it just that a cult is smaller, tends to be a little more extreme, and more than anything, is not mainstream? Also, what did you say your grandmother's name was? I'd like to Google it. Thanks and keep up the fine work.
Second Question: I also found your account of the groups efforts to exorcise the demons from you to be interesting. Incredibly coercive! Do you think this form of coercion is at play when we see video clips of people behaving in similar ways at other religious gatherings? In other words, when we see people writhing around, having convulsions, etc.--do you think the primary force behind this is coercion, or do they really believe? Or are they faking it? Or some combination of these?
Question Angie! (picture hand in the air) This is the first time I've heard of "soul-ties" and I find the concept fascinating. Do you see this as a mechanism to isolate the individual from the rest of society--thereby making them more dependent on the cult?
tool here...all that is a very sad state ...but We read that many(Jesus only spoke in "the many" and "the few" when measureing groups)...He says in mathew 7 :21-23 that MANY will cast out demons or atleast claim to...speak in tongues...do miracles by his name(not in His name there is a differance)...with Him never knowing them..as disciples we have to go through the foolishness of the sects of so-called christianity..we are" the called out ones" and are wiser for haveing to go through all of it.
@rockking05 Yes! at the Abiding Life farm in Tyler/Lyndale, Texas? The airport was so small it could only accommodate 2 prop planes. Trying to leave that place was horrible.
@AngieAntiTheist how old were you when this happen?Do you know who gene moody or norman parish or any other crazy person up there was?I know them well but i wish i never did thoguh.Religion is the chyisal meth of the people only more dangerous.
@AngieAntiTheist did you ever met gene moody or any of those people at those meeting?They have that strong,scary autohorintian look on their faces don`t they?Thye mostly preach on sex,witchcraft,demons,and the end time,and they love to talk about how messed the secualr world is but they have more freedo than these people have.Thye love to demonized non religious people and say that our world would be better place if everyone done spiritually warfare.Crazy place huh?Also i have baby face on me
Angie, Eilor2112 is the new incarnation of TheMightyTreeMan... my personal stalker for about 9 months. I suggest you just block him, like WCW did. He is a proven malicious habitual liar.
.
Good luck though-and keep posting videos! Its been very helpful to see the kinds of perspectives you have, especially with your background. Thanks for continuing to share!
@ThatOneQuestion Don't derail this thread too, you fucking idiots. I haven't posted here in a week. Whoever you think I may be, the fact remains, both you and WCWnWoTV are nothing more than internet trolls who can never remain on topic. Fuck off.
Yeah, sucks that the truth is being spread around, doesn't it? Why dont you fucking leave the internet? Or better yet, delete this account as well, make a new one, and dont bother any of us again?
the demons work for God, they are his mighty army. Deliverance ministries for the most part are works of the flesh. The demons are there attacking people because God sent them. God Almighty has not lost control of the devil. They are the testers of faith and the instruments to bring judgment and discipline for sin. Resist them in Christ and they will flee.
ok, this is the third video of you that I have seen and you are really hard to look at.......can you please remove those disgusting warts or moles or whatever they are.....it is really vile and it makes me feel like I have to vomit when i see your nasty face......
You must be born again in Jesus Christ. Only by the blood and the name of Jesus Christ the Lord can you be delivered by demons. This is by faith and belief is this done. So if you're not a child of God the demons will torment you. Demons flee in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth. The demons believe and tremble.
@TheMightyTreeMan Wait so demons only exist if you redefine them as people with struggles? And you're wrong. Historians DON'T acknowledge Jesus once lived. Even if he did, which credible historians don't say with certainty due to the complete lack of extra-biblical contemporary materials even MENTIONING the guy, that wouldn't mean Jesus was alive NOW as god. Facts really do help arguments you know. Maybe that's why I tend to win. :)
@TheMightyTreeMan Read the Bible? Gee, I never got forced into doing that for decades! You're new so I'll fill you in. I read the Bible. Still do. While some things in the Bible have been confirmed through other sources as historically true, other things in the Bible are patently absurd, ridiculous, and completely untrue (for example, there is ZERO evidence for Israeli slaves in Egypt or the mass escape described in Exodus.
Demons of a supernatural variety aren't real. Is that clearer for you?
@TheMightyTreeMan Aw gee, would you tell all these Christians (like the one I was responding to originally who claimed demons were real and were possessing me) that their religion is a mythology & they shouldn't take it literally? That sure might help, except they think you're going to hell just as much as me. You're a heretic and a misogynist and you're gone now. Buh-bye.
@AngieAntiTheist Just to let you know; Elior2112 is TheMightyTreeMan. If he harasses your channel as much as he has others... it would do you some good to block him now.
Hello, just discovered you. This is a real trip, the brand of Christianity I was raised with sounds very similar to the one you struggled with. I had to constantly "break ungodly soul ties" in long prayer sessions. They didn't discover my brothers schizophrenia for years because they held on to their archaic belief in demons. Great vid !
@doriansenigma Congratulations! You're invited to the exclusive(ish) ExCultNetwork dotning dotcom I started it so we could compare notes & stories & laugh about the crazy shit. Glad your brother finally got a diagnosis. Kudos for breaking out of those "ungodly religion ties"
@Indigohue you can believe in whatever the hell you want..i dont care if you believe in flying purple dinosaurs..just keep it away from my kids. i dont want my children anywhere near the evil that is christianity.
You are entitled too to believe in what you want, after all God gave you freewill. All I ask is that you keep the evil that is atheism away from my children.
@Indigohue Atheism is just a lack of belief in gods. My daughter decided she was an atheist all by herself at age 9.I've noticed that there are two common ways for a person to be an atheist: never get introduced to religion in the first place or try to read the entire Bible. I never realized just how nasty your god was until I read Bible for myself.
I'm curious. If an omniscient, omnipotent being has a plan for you and will make you suffer for not following it, how can you also have free will?
@HoleDweller What you fail to understand is that the bible wasn't written twenty years ago; it was written over two thousand years ago (the old testament, at least.) Times were much more violent back then, so naturally, any text from that era would be more violent as well.
@Eilor2112 I fully understand that the Bible is an ancient text, and as such is not very reliable. What I don't understand is how people believe in an all loving god that never changes can be found in the bible. There are many different versions of god in the bible and none of them seem very loving or moral.
@HoleDweller Alright, I see your point, and I agree. There isn't much consistency within the descriptions of who god is and what he stands for, which makes for an overall contradicting story when god blatantly disobeys his own teachings.
@Indigohue I have repeatedly, carefully explained that the Christianity I grew up in is not mainstream. However, that does not take away from the commonalities it shared with more popular forms or denominations, nor does it give one shred of evidence for mainstream Christianity.
@Indigohue There is no such thing as "real Christianity". It is all pretty similar, only believers debate the "realness" of one sect compared to the the other.
Angie - why so many videos about something you don't believe in? I mean I don't believe in Count Dracula but I don't keep making endless videos to reiterate the point.
@Indigohue Because no one else believes in Count Dracula either. Draculists don't influence politics, education, and health (ie, abortion.) Draculists don't torture children like I described in this very video. (D'uh.)
@Richardspluge religion is evil, however a personal relationship with God is not.
I believe in demons I have had encounters with some. The way you were taught to get rid of them is not the way to do so. You have to want to get rid of them 1st of all, then you have to take authority over them through Jesus to make them leave. It takes a strong follower of Christ to get rid of them.
I think all people Pretend to believe, it's easier than fighting religion, or being outcast by your friends, & family. Then it becomes a habit so much that people start to believe they believe in religion. So all the religious in the world are pretending, or worse telling a lie for profit, power, money, or EGO. Religion is pure EVIL.
What a clever deception that you made up to further cloud the understanding of people who need deliverance for real. Many are deceivers for true as the scriptures expose, but the few who are called do experience the reality of God's love to us. God is not religion...He is the all wise, all powerful Creator that is found in everyday life by simply seeking Him by faith. I feel sorry for the producer of this video because she has had a real bad exposure to religion that has turned her away from God
@6468lee I have freedom from religion for good reason.
Americas founding fathers George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, & Ben Franklin were Atheist or Deists. They gave us freedom from religion to protect us from Religious wack jobs like you , peddle your snake oil to no one Shut up, Thank You.
@RichardSpluge This is so sad...Washington, Jefferson and Franklin are all dead and America is now dying too...Freedom? Do you know that Christ is risen from the dead and is alive...He gives true freedom my friend, not religion, not snake oil, not atheist, not deists...but Jesus Christ only.
@6468lee Now I'm offended your violating my right to freedom from Religion, stop preaching to me sir. You have no rights to preach to me or anyone I have freedom from that in the constitution. I consider any religious Preaching a Hate Crime & a violation of my rights. So please stop replying to me.
@RichardSpluge "Now I'm offended your violating my right to freedom from Religion."
So must your freedom enslave me? Don't I have the right to freedom of expression? Didn't you freely express your negative views against me? What you call freedom is bondage and in any case I don't support 'religion' , I support the written word of God that cannot be rebutted or disproved and is profitable for correction, instruction and advice on good living...What's your problem with that?
The issue of animal cruelty doesn't really belong here. The issue of a soul does. If you recall, All I was trying to do was get you to understand why your original assumption that I had no basis for conjecturing that a human soul could possibly exist is simply wrong. I believe I have made a compelling case for it that is in no way based on my opinion about anything. Just observable facts about the nature of ourselves.
Growing up in that atmosphere I can understand why you left. But does rejecting that kind of literalist fundamentalism mean you have to reject god or any sort of spirtuality altogether? Just a question.
"But does rejecting that kind of literalist fundamentalism mean you have to reject god or any sort of spirtuality altogether?"
Certainly not.
While the person might be "put off" for a while, they might again seek comfort of a god.
However, with this background you do get exposed to the bullshit that is religion, and that can permanently open your eyes to the reality about religion.
@ThatOneQuestion, even I believe we have a soul. It's just that I think it's made out of lots of tiny robots and not some sort of etherial-net connection to a celestial sugar daddy.
@ThatOneQuestion, Because it seems plausible. Everything but our brains is just machinery. It hosts a sort of virtual organ we call the mind. The stuff that you're communicating with right now is all metaphysical in nature--a suitable place for a soul to exist. We each host a huge collection of memes that compete for our attention and their collective effect is the basis of all the things we associate with that word--soul. Also personality, consciousness, etc are likewise 'memetic effects.'
Yes, to you-and thats the issue: opinion. It differs between every single individual yet we all value our own opinion above that of others, usually.
Opinions like these also help paint how you see the world, your perspective. While you see machines running our bodies so that our "soul" can live, I see a galaxy of organisms working together while the electrical masterpiece, "us" continues on almost obliviously.
@ThatOneQuestion, I note that you didn't address my reasoning on why it seem plausible that we have souls. Of course it my opinion, but that's flatly irrelevant to the issue.
You offered no reasoning. Just a different claim. But what matters is why you've adopted it, not that you have.
Yes I did. Its your personal opinion, and everyone has one. If you dont know why personal opinions are disregarded when making claims about how things work, then I'll explain:
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Claims that are presented without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
These should be well known phrases, not to mention common sense.
@ThatOneQuestion, All of that is irrelevant to what I said. I get the feeling you're just very angry and are using this forum to vent it. I have no idea why.
No it isn't, its your opinion and you dont have any evidence for it, just your personal thoughts.
I asked you why, and the reason you gave was this: "Because it seems plausible". That is your opinion. You base that opinion on your understanding of the body being a machine, but saying that the brain is unlike all the other organs because it holds the soul.
You have no validation for this except for opinion.
If you are unable to understand why I am not impressed with your "reasoning" based on nothing but personal opinion, then there really isn't anywhere else to go with it.
Trying to say "souls" exist because they live in our brains really doesn't inspire a great deal of intelligence behind that statement.
Do you actually have anything besides personal opinion to validate any of these opinions of yours?
"@ThatOneQuestion, What kind of a thing is a word? "
A concept bound into the language we have.
Great-are you going to go off into useless philosophical tangents?
Religious philosophy is nothing more than mental masturbation. It doesn't solve anything, it doesn't reveal anything, and it has failed to validate anything for thousands of years.
@ThatOneQuestion, No, I just wanted to know which word you would use. And I don't believe every word is a concept at all. A word is a rather more complicated object than that--a metaphysical object that can have impact on our minds; changing them. A meme that can be pronounced would be a better definition. But my point is that you too agree that metaphysical things, like words, or numbers can be "real" in the all the senses of the word that matter: functional, well defined, useable. etc.
@ThatOneQuestion, I'm trying to explain it, do you believe that the metaphysical objects that our minds manipulate to communicate with each other, model the reality we experience, contemplate, etc, are real or not?
You are dancing on the topic of thought and reality, which, an interesting topic, is religious philosophy and is, pardon the pun, immaterial to the point.
You cant prove anything about this "soul" thing possessing these meat sacks you see and continuing to exist afterward.
This is why I wasn't letting you go anywhere with it: remember what I said about opinion?
This entire subject of trying to logically work out what thought or logic is or can be is a pointless exercise in mental masturbation.
You wont get anywhere in your validation of souls by trying to assert that our minds influence reality in some way, or debating about thoughts being "real" or not.
Try answering this: if we have souls, how did it come to be? Sperm or the egg, or was it floating around waiting to possess a bag of flesh in a mother's womb?
What I find laughable about people trying to argue about this "soul" thing is that you end up with nothing but the opinion of what t "is" and where it could be going, but almost never how it got there in the first place.
The fear of death creates lots of bullshit people invent to deal with that inevitability. That being the case, people rarely ever even think it out, they just want to believe.
@ThatOneQuestion, I'm not claiming the soul is anything different than the mind is. In the same way that our physical brain can host something metaphysical, like our minds, our minds can host something even more abstract, which the word soul is the closest concept. Note that this implies that it dies with us. But also, and uniquely because it is built on top of the mind rather than the brain, it might actually be possible to make them immortal in some sense. You might be doing it right now.
"In the same way that our physical brain can host something metaphysical, like our minds, our minds can host something even more abstract, which the word soul is the closest concept"
And thats your opinion. Do you really understand why you hit such a hard wall with me before? After years of dealing with BS like this treated as something more than it is, I can usually smell when its coming, like I did with you.
"How is it possible for you to use this forum if your mind is unable to have any causal effect on reality? "
In the same way any animal uses a tool or influences the environment.
Regardless, you are taking that statement out of context. Remember what you were talking about before on words and asking if they are real or not?? THAT is what I was referring to, not the result of electrical impulses telling our muscles to do something.
This entire conversation is quite pointless, as you have nothing but your opinion and desire to cheat death.
Can you seriously not understand why BS like this is meaningless? You have your unsubstantiated opinion about how you would like the world to work, but you have nothing of value to offer as a means to actually validate that.
@ThatOneQuestion, But that is the point. That we are very much virtual creatures that inhabit robotic bodies. Organs in your brain convert the sensory input into purely metaphysical objects that are manipulated by a virtual organ we call the mind to activate the motor neurons that finally give your metaphysical self real teeth.
I'm not taking your statement out of context. You can't deny that our thoughts are metaphysical things and that they can direct our actions. That disproves your claim.
"That we are very much virtual creatures that inhabit robotic bodies."
And how did that come into being? Do our bodies create the "soul", or is the "soul" something floating around waiting to possess what would otherwise be a lifeless sack of meat if it was to be born without a "soul"?
"You can't deny that our thoughts are metaphysical things and that they can direct our actions"
Do animals have a metaphysical "self" since they have all the same kind of organs we do, and the exact same electrochemical processes produce their actions?
If you are going to go further and talk about "self sacrifice" or other such notions as an even finer condition for this "soul" thing, then look at this:
type "highway dog rescue" and you will find an amazing bit of footage of a dog dragging another dog off of a highway. It didn't use its mouth to drag the injured dog, it was being gentle.
@ThatOneQuestion, I sure think so. Obviously they must share a great deal of the same mental machinery as we do since we use the same genes to build it. But there is reason to believe that there is a huge difference in the way information is processed--the software animal brains tend to host versus ours. They don't seem to have the capacity for recursion or analogy.
"They don't seem to have the capacity for recursion or analogy. "
You are aware that we can use sign language to speak to trained primates, right?
How could we possibly run installations like Sea World if these animals are so far "beneath" us? The ability for dolphins and other such animals to understand a completely different species and understand our desires and concepts isn't enough of a qualification?
I saw a documentary about the butchery of dolphins in Japan fishing villages by the man who trained and acted with the dolphins who became Flipper in the old TV series.
I cant remember the name of it now, but when you hear some of these people talk about the kind and level of connection animals like that are able to understand us, it becomes very clear just how well they can think.
Also, some primates in zoos or in study groups can paint. That shows a will to convey concepts through mediums
@ThatOneQuestion, LOL. I think it was the San Diego Zoo. In any event, I don't know. But you're preaching to the choir here. I think all farms should be run like Polyface by guys like Joel Salatin (who writes great books on the topic.) His animals are happy. You can tell by looking at them.
HAHAHHA!!! Just so the humans can reduce their own guilt when they butcher the animals eventually???
That is completely moronic. If you are going to be keeping animals in a concentration camp, no matter the size, who's only fate is to be butchered because they are a food source, you shouldn't be in the business if you work hard to slaughter them while thinking they had a good time.
@ThatOneQuestion, yes, that's more or less why we believe they don't have a sense of recursion, because of the differing ways we use language. I'm not claiming to know if they can suffer in anything like the way we can. So far, it does appear as if some do, and suggests we're probably being rather brutal to permit CAFOs.
@ThatOneQuestion, Our bodies create the place a soul can grow in, and set up a lot of boundaries on what sort of properties it can have, but it's probably mostly memes from our environment that actually combine to create the software we use to model reality and experience as ourselves. Souls and no different than the ability of your car to drive. It has something to do with the physical properties of the car, but needs a driver to go anywhere. Car will one day host virtual drivers.
@ThatOneQuestion, in a sense, of course. But the relevant question is whether they have souls that are anything like ours; capable of being aware of their own mortality, for example.
"and suggests we're probably being rather brutal to permit CAFOs. "
And raising animals just to be slaughtered is perfectly fine if we do it on a small enough scale??
Come on-that is ridiculous. Butchery is butchery. Its like trying to feel good about executing a criminal by making sure the lethal injection is sterilized before you kill him.
@ThatOneQuestion, I don't think the scale of a farm matters, it's whether or not the animals are happy and healthy that matters. But I agree that's a lot easier to accomplish on modest sized or small farms.
@ThatOneQuestion, Two reasons, first, because I hate the idea of thinking of them suffering and have every reason to believe that (especially farm animals which wander around where they're being dressed with no apparent awareness that they're next or putting up any sort of struggle when the same hands that have picked them up many times before pick them up one last time) they are incapable of appreciating their own mortality. They just get dead, they don't realize they're even dying at the time.
@ThatOneQuestion, no. Scary videos involving animals are too hard to watch. But relax, I'm not trying to diminish the standing of animals at all, quite the contrary, I'm claiming that what most people claim makes us special, a soul, is meaningless in and of itself and has no intrinsic value. I also think the dumbest animal on earth is more valuable than a parasitic human. I do not believe anything at all has any intrinsic value of any sort. Just what others give it. That's how value works.
"I'm claiming that what most people claim makes us special, a soul, is meaningless in and of itself and has no intrinsic value"
Well we agree then, especially since I dont believe in such a fancy to begin with, and I do recognize how others use it to put themselves on a pillar.
@ThatOneQuestion, It's about a lot more than the welfare of the animals. It's us too. Our food supply sucks. Guys like Salatin are doing something really wise to try and fix it and fighting everyone from the government, to the ignorant extremists that don't even realize the only alternative is to let those species go extinct because none of them existed before we breed them or are fit to exist in the present wild. That's a rather radical solution.
@ThatOneQuestion, I hate the fact that he happens to be a Christian too. But that doesn't affect the science he uses to work out how to run a healthy farm. A handful of perfectly good scientists are religious scum as well. That doesn't detract from their work one bit. I reckon they were imprinted as kids and are addicted to something hard to give up. Bummer. I still think Joel deserves a nobel prize for his ingenious approach to farming, where the animals do most of the real work of farming.
@ThatOneQuestion, Odd then that you don't have a problem with the word "mind." I'm assuming you do believe you have one of those, and realize that it is something that processes information (which is, by definition, metaphysical) than why is it so hard for you to accept the fact (yes, fact) that a human soul may be every bit as real as a human mind is? It too is nothing but information.
"I'm assuming you do believe you have [a mind], and realize that it is something that processes information"
Yes, of course I have a specialized organ that facilitates every action that I do. It, however, is not a magical vessel for my "essence".
Tell me... since you love going into this field of opinion and "metaphysical", have you tried to contemplate what Artificial Intelligence would contribute to that concept of yours?
Would a powerful computer system have a soul if it could think?
"than why is it so hard for you to accept the fact (yes, fact) that a human soul may be every bit as real as a human mind is?"
Dont lie. It is not a fact. Stop making things up and pretending they are fact. These are your opinions, and no matter how logical you think it is, it is NOT a fact.
@ThatOneQuestion, if we design a machine capable of hosting a soul, and give it a way to grow one, then yes, I'd say the machine had as much of a soul as we have, or could potentially. Suppose I replace every neuron in your body, one at a time, by a machine that simulated it perfectly? Would you still be you? I think so.
"if we design a machine capable of hosting a soul"
And with that I think I'll end this conversation. I had a good laugh with this, yet I realize that you are going to pretty much say anything without thinking too hard.
Its amusing to me you think we can manufacture souls.
I'll leave you with this: suppose someone loses all of their memories and never recovers them... their personality will change, but does that influence their "soul"?
@ThatOneQuestion, I'm guessing you're young enough get to see it happen in the next decade or two too. Yes, I'm foolish enough to think you'll be using software one day that seems just as intelligent and aware of the world and its role in it as we are.
"...and that can permanently open your eyes to the reality about religion."
What is the reality about religion, exactly? The vision of reality differs from person to person. Not everybody is you, and therefore doesn't see the world as you see fit. To you, religion is a fraud. To others, it could be their entire world, a small part of their world, or a beloved part which they will always hold in their hearts.
"You should look up what a "cop out" is, kid, you got it wrong, yet again."
I brought up the subject of the sociological aspects of religion, and you changed the subject back to "liar!" to avoid embarrassing yourself in a subject that you know nothing about. The fact that you merely ignored it, instead of stating, "I don't know the sociological aspects of religion," is a major cop out.
No, ignored the sociological aspects of religion; the exact same thing I've been talking about the last five or six posts. The mere fact that every time I bring up a subject which you know absolutely nothing about, you seemingly change the subject back to "Your fucking opinion fucking is fucking baseless fucking liar fuck."
This soul-tie list sounds like a catholic confession. It is a common tool of brain washing to get your victim to spill their guts about deeply intimate details.
@gangsterfromheaven Atheist dont believe god exist at all! Therefore they cannot hate gods.
Oldcartoons571 1 month ago in playlist More videos from AngieAntiTheist
damn, that is one fucked up religion you got stuck with. writing about it is very therapeutic. i feel sorry for the ones who don't have the will, strength, or opportunity to get away from such a cult, reminds me of something from the puritans 350 years ago... wow.
tomitstube 2 months ago
SO DO HATE YOUR PARENTS OR DO YOU HATE GOD/JESUS?? OR BOTH??
gangsterfromheaven 4 months ago
ANGIETHEANTICHRIST LOL
gangsterfromheaven 4 months ago
ANGIE, HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN POSSESED???? YOUR ANGRY AND BITTER, THOSE TYPES OF FEELINGS COME FROM THE DEVIL
gangsterfromheaven 4 months ago
HEY ANGIE HOW DOES IT FEEL TO BE DEMON POSSESED???? LOL I CAN TELL BY YOUR EYES YOU ARE TORMENTED VERY BADLY
gangsterfromheaven 4 months ago
Thanks Angie,you're great,please keep 'em comeing! I will be buying your book,I think your beautifull,brave and other good stuff.Stay Well
dianalee84 6 months ago
you didnt get deliverance by bob larson did you?
witchcerridwen 7 months ago
U're quite brilliant. What a great loss that will be suffered if you don't examine the evil in what you have experienced and account it not to God but to man. If we were not capable of such evils as free willed creations of a great designer than what need is there of him. Truth is we are absent every good thing w/out God&even the things which you claim as ur own are gifts from Him. What an incredible force u would be for truth if u sought its face genuinely w/out bitterness, anger or resentment.
Exegesis21 8 months ago
Everytime my church calls over here at my house i just feel real anxious,and real sad each time.My family say i am just drama queen but they never had to go through the hell i did when i was attending church that angie went through.In fact gerrie lady that she talking about was one of the people that i once met and i felt negative feeling about her.It hurts thinking about what i went through.
rockking05 8 months ago
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Jesus loves you Angela it wasnt him who judged you or hated you. I know you have alot of pain not only physically but in your heart those scars are going to be healed by Jesus's blood he is our only hope I had commented on one of your videos before and if I offended I didnt mean to come across that way not every church is that horrible God convicts us diffrently and will help us through anything I pray you will so this one thing just sit wherever you are and call Jesus by name to speak to you.
FeatherDumplin 11 months ago
@FeatherDumplin I attended MANY different churches over my 2 and a half decades as a Christian.
Your prayers are neither wanted, nor helpful.
AngieAntiTheist 11 months ago 11
@FeatherDumplin Quick question, If everybody was gods child, what was so special about jesus?
godofthemoon 8 months ago
@godofthemoon Jesus Christ is Emmanuel God With Us Im not arguing just stating Gods Word believe or dont its your choice. Dont exspect a comment back I wont be arguing with you its my belief.
FeatherDumplin 4 months ago
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to rtubervoice, for some reason I don't see your last comment below. Actually I can't claim credit for the analogy of the invisible dragon in the garage. That's Carl Sagan. Should have credited him, but so little room allowed on these responses. However, (to paraphrase) your suggestion that such a being could just be a neurotic figment of my imagination is a plausible suggestion (were it not someone else's analogy) and likewise it is my suggestion that God is the same to believers--imagination.
DandAinTac 11 months ago
to rtubervoice, for some reason I don't see your last comment below. Actually I can't claim credit for the analogy of the invisible dragon in the garage. That's Carl Sagan. Should have credited him, but so little room allowed on these responses. However, (to paraphrase) your suggestion that such a being could just be a neurotic figment of my imagination is a plausible suggestion (were it not someone else's analogy) and likewise it is my suggestion that God is the same to believers--imagination.
DandAinTac 11 months ago
@rtubervoice Possibility? Sure, I admit the POSSIBILITY. I admit the possibility of many things, but that doesn't mean I believe them. It's also possible I have an invisible, incorporeal, silent dragon in my garage, that doesn't require any food, leaves no waste, floats in the air, is absolutely silent, and has no smell or heat emissions as well. If I tell you this, and perhaps claim philosophical arguments and "historical evidence," would you just believe it?
DandAinTac 1 year ago
@rtubervoice Oh--for a minute I thought you were being satirical. I sat down and glanced for a moment at your "name"--and thought for a split second it said "ruberoom"--like "rubber room".
Satan, demons and the like are just myths designed to keep us in a state of fear so that we will believe things without evidence, listen when the priest tells us what to think, and tithe generously. Wake up! Think for yourself, and learn to apply some standards of evidence to what you have been told.
DandAinTac 1 year ago
@rtubervoice "Harsh rules" don't begin to cover it, or have you slaughtered a dove to make up for your "uncleanliness" of having your period this month? Hate to be so crude, but the Bible is far cruder.
And you know, I came up with that little piece of psuedo-feminist extra-biblical heretical theology myself as a Christian. But the Bible god is clearly male & clearly hates women. That's not "harsh" it's abusive.
AngieAntiTheist 1 year ago
@rtubervoice If love is your motive, then I will try to speak in kind. Being Christian made me feel abused, unloved, unlovable. I felt dirty, sinful, unclean, and unforgiven. Yes, yes, I know Christ forgives sins. I've read the Bible too many times to believe it. The god of the Bible is vindictive, petty, jealous and cruel. Jesus offers hell to those who won't believe a book cobbled, edited, & intentionally changed over the years by men. Seems he's little better than Jehovah. I am happy now.
AngieAntiTheist 1 year ago
such a shame that you dont believe in god.
you dont have to be a christ,just believe in god.
idk i believe in god so deeply..
xc0nfusion 1 year ago
@xc0nfusion I require evidence to support beliefs. Why do you believe in god so deeply?
AngieAntiTheist 1 year ago
xc0nfusion 1 year ago
@xc0nfusion I care more whether a belief is true than how it makes me feel. Besides, I don't find subservience appealing.
AngieAntiTheist 1 year ago
Wow, I'm seriously wanting to reading your book now. It sounds so good, I was captivated by your excerpt. Great vid!
ikutsu2001 1 year ago
Last question for today. We have the word "cult"--but do you believe there is a qualitative difference between a "cult" and a "religion"--or is it just that a cult is smaller, tends to be a little more extreme, and more than anything, is not mainstream? Also, what did you say your grandmother's name was? I'd like to Google it. Thanks and keep up the fine work.
DandAinTac 1 year ago
Second Question: I also found your account of the groups efforts to exorcise the demons from you to be interesting. Incredibly coercive! Do you think this form of coercion is at play when we see video clips of people behaving in similar ways at other religious gatherings? In other words, when we see people writhing around, having convulsions, etc.--do you think the primary force behind this is coercion, or do they really believe? Or are they faking it? Or some combination of these?
DandAinTac 1 year ago
Question Angie! (picture hand in the air) This is the first time I've heard of "soul-ties" and I find the concept fascinating. Do you see this as a mechanism to isolate the individual from the rest of society--thereby making them more dependent on the cult?
DandAinTac 1 year ago
great vid, peace out & thumbs up
redlesters 1 year ago
engaging in Hedonism FTW!
bjunt4prez 1 year ago
I really want to read that memoir!
bookcreator 1 year ago
Woah I must have a billion demons in me right now. Awesome.
Shalek 1 year ago
so, i'm thinking you did have the demons, hence the writhing on the floor. While you thought it was on your own accord, it was not!
trollundatheolbridge 1 year ago
WOW. Soul ties? I heard about this thru Bob Larson and then thru a nigerian pastor. I am shocked you knew about this.
sandroeleven 1 year ago
@sandroeleven Christianity as practiced by my grandmother is pretty similar to animism.
AngieAntiTheist 1 year ago
tool here...all that is a very sad state ...but We read that many(Jesus only spoke in "the many" and "the few" when measureing groups)...He says in mathew 7 :21-23 that MANY will cast out demons or atleast claim to...speak in tongues...do miracles by his name(not in His name there is a differance)...with Him never knowing them..as disciples we have to go through the foolishness of the sects of so-called christianity..we are" the called out ones" and are wiser for haveing to go through all of it.
christophorM 1 year ago
was it gerri mcgee
rockking05 1 year ago
@rockking05 Yes! at the Abiding Life farm in Tyler/Lyndale, Texas? The airport was so small it could only accommodate 2 prop planes. Trying to leave that place was horrible.
AngieAntiTheist 1 year ago
@AngieAntiTheist how old were you when this happen?Do you know who gene moody or norman parish or any other crazy person up there was?I know them well but i wish i never did thoguh.Religion is the chyisal meth of the people only more dangerous.
rockking05 1 year ago
@AngieAntiTheist did you ever met gene moody or any of those people at those meeting?They have that strong,scary autohorintian look on their faces don`t they?Thye mostly preach on sex,witchcraft,demons,and the end time,and they love to talk about how messed the secualr world is but they have more freedo than these people have.Thye love to demonized non religious people and say that our world would be better place if everyone done spiritually warfare.Crazy place huh?Also i have baby face on me
rockking05 1 year ago
I KNOW THAT WOMAN THAT YOU MET ANGIE I MET HER SEVERAL TIMES AND SHE IS NUTS.LOVE YOUR VIDEO PLEASE WARN PEOPLE OF THESE CRAZIES THAT RAE OUT THERE.
rockking05 1 year ago
@rockking05 Oh wow, you met Gerri? Glad you got out. Thanks for your comment on my channel page as well.
AngieAntiTheist 1 year ago
Your are possessed.
JohnnaCal 1 year ago
@JohnnaCal shut up
rockking05 1 year ago
Angie, Eilor2112 is the new incarnation of TheMightyTreeMan... my personal stalker for about 9 months. I suggest you just block him, like WCW did. He is a proven malicious habitual liar.
.
Good luck though-and keep posting videos! Its been very helpful to see the kinds of perspectives you have, especially with your background. Thanks for continuing to share!
ThatOneQuestion 1 year ago
@ThatOneQuestion Don't derail this thread too, you fucking idiots. I haven't posted here in a week. Whoever you think I may be, the fact remains, both you and WCWnWoTV are nothing more than internet trolls who can never remain on topic. Fuck off.
Eilor2112 1 year ago
@Eilor2112 "Fuck off."
.
Yeah, sucks that the truth is being spread around, doesn't it? Why dont you fucking leave the internet? Or better yet, delete this account as well, make a new one, and dont bother any of us again?
ThatOneQuestion 1 year ago
@ThatOneQuestion You speak an infinite deal of nothing.
Eilor2112 1 year ago
thank you for sharing this.
zackearthworm 1 year ago
If only you understood the work of the cross.
rbright79 1 year ago
the demons work for God, they are his mighty army. Deliverance ministries for the most part are works of the flesh. The demons are there attacking people because God sent them. God Almighty has not lost control of the devil. They are the testers of faith and the instruments to bring judgment and discipline for sin. Resist them in Christ and they will flee.
Formertelecomguy 1 year ago
sounds like the old time Pentecostal church I grew up in.
ftmtransguy 1 year ago
You didn't want to be set free, God does not force anybody! GBU
lady777121 1 year ago
ok, this is the third video of you that I have seen and you are really hard to look at.......can you please remove those disgusting warts or moles or whatever they are.....it is really vile and it makes me feel like I have to vomit when i see your nasty face......
msm318 1 year ago
You must be born again in Jesus Christ. Only by the blood and the name of Jesus Christ the Lord can you be delivered by demons. This is by faith and belief is this done. So if you're not a child of God the demons will torment you. Demons flee in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth. The demons believe and tremble.
almostmidnightdesign 1 year ago
@almostmidnightdesign Fortunately neither demons nor your jesus exist
AngieAntiTheist 1 year ago 16
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TheMightyTreeMan 1 year ago
@TheMightyTreeMan Wait so demons only exist if you redefine them as people with struggles? And you're wrong. Historians DON'T acknowledge Jesus once lived. Even if he did, which credible historians don't say with certainty due to the complete lack of extra-biblical contemporary materials even MENTIONING the guy, that wouldn't mean Jesus was alive NOW as god. Facts really do help arguments you know. Maybe that's why I tend to win. :)
AngieAntiTheist 1 year ago
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TheMightyTreeMan 1 year ago
@TheMightyTreeMan Read the Bible? Gee, I never got forced into doing that for decades! You're new so I'll fill you in. I read the Bible. Still do. While some things in the Bible have been confirmed through other sources as historically true, other things in the Bible are patently absurd, ridiculous, and completely untrue (for example, there is ZERO evidence for Israeli slaves in Egypt or the mass escape described in Exodus.
Demons of a supernatural variety aren't real. Is that clearer for you?
AngieAntiTheist 1 year ago
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TheMightyTreeMan 1 year ago
@TheMightyTreeMan Aw gee, would you tell all these Christians (like the one I was responding to originally who claimed demons were real and were possessing me) that their religion is a mythology & they shouldn't take it literally? That sure might help, except they think you're going to hell just as much as me. You're a heretic and a misogynist and you're gone now. Buh-bye.
AngieAntiTheist 1 year ago
@AngieAntiTheist Just to let you know; Elior2112 is TheMightyTreeMan. If he harasses your channel as much as he has others... it would do you some good to block him now.
WCWnWoTV 1 year ago
Hello, just discovered you. This is a real trip, the brand of Christianity I was raised with sounds very similar to the one you struggled with. I had to constantly "break ungodly soul ties" in long prayer sessions. They didn't discover my brothers schizophrenia for years because they held on to their archaic belief in demons. Great vid !
doriansenigma 1 year ago
@doriansenigma Congratulations! You're invited to the exclusive(ish) ExCultNetwork dotning dotcom I started it so we could compare notes & stories & laugh about the crazy shit. Glad your brother finally got a diagnosis. Kudos for breaking out of those "ungodly religion ties"
AngieAntiTheist 1 year ago
@AngieAntiTheist
Wow thank you! I'll check it out.
doriansenigma 1 year ago
i went to a church like that when young. it is madness
greenghost2008 1 year ago
They is plenty of evidence in my opinion and I feel blessed to have Jesus as my Saviour.
It's a shame when people misrepresent God and I can see how it would have turned you away from Him.
Indigohue 1 year ago
@Indigohue you can believe in whatever the hell you want..i dont care if you believe in flying purple dinosaurs..just keep it away from my kids. i dont want my children anywhere near the evil that is christianity.
yumlemonjuice 1 year ago
@yumlemonjuice
You are entitled too to believe in what you want, after all God gave you freewill. All I ask is that you keep the evil that is atheism away from my children.
Indigohue 1 year ago
@Indigohue Atheism is just a lack of belief in gods. My daughter decided she was an atheist all by herself at age 9.I've noticed that there are two common ways for a person to be an atheist: never get introduced to religion in the first place or try to read the entire Bible. I never realized just how nasty your god was until I read Bible for myself.
I'm curious. If an omniscient, omnipotent being has a plan for you and will make you suffer for not following it, how can you also have free will?
HoleDweller 1 year ago
@HoleDweller What you fail to understand is that the bible wasn't written twenty years ago; it was written over two thousand years ago (the old testament, at least.) Times were much more violent back then, so naturally, any text from that era would be more violent as well.
Eilor2112 1 year ago
@Eilor2112 I fully understand that the Bible is an ancient text, and as such is not very reliable. What I don't understand is how people believe in an all loving god that never changes can be found in the bible. There are many different versions of god in the bible and none of them seem very loving or moral.
HoleDweller 1 year ago
@HoleDweller Alright, I see your point, and I agree. There isn't much consistency within the descriptions of who god is and what he stands for, which makes for an overall contradicting story when god blatantly disobeys his own teachings.
Eilor2112 1 year ago
@Indigohue
"plenty of evidence in my opinion" LOL
Evidence is not a matter of opinion, it is a matter of fact. The truth is not a democratic process. No wonder you need a god to believe in.
madjik9 1 year ago
It sounds like the people you grew up with were cranky in their beliefs and far removed from real Christianity.
Indigohue 1 year ago
@Indigohue I have repeatedly, carefully explained that the Christianity I grew up in is not mainstream. However, that does not take away from the commonalities it shared with more popular forms or denominations, nor does it give one shred of evidence for mainstream Christianity.
AngieAntiTheist 1 year ago 9
@Indigohue There is no such thing as "real Christianity". It is all pretty similar, only believers debate the "realness" of one sect compared to the the other.
BlakThundar 1 year ago
@BlakThundar
There are many false prophets and hypocrisy within some Christian sects. Matt 7:21
Not every one that saith unto me Lord, Lord, will enter into the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven".
Matt 7:15 Beware of false prophet's which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves."
"Ye shall know them by their fruits".
Indigohue 1 year ago
Angie - why so many videos about something you don't believe in? I mean I don't believe in Count Dracula but I don't keep making endless videos to reiterate the point.
Indigohue 1 year ago
@Indigohue Because no one else believes in Count Dracula either. Draculists don't influence politics, education, and health (ie, abortion.) Draculists don't torture children like I described in this very video. (D'uh.)
AngieAntiTheist 1 year ago 4
What an experience.
BigDickandLittleJon 1 year ago
@Richardspluge religion is evil, however a personal relationship with God is not.
I believe in demons I have had encounters with some. The way you were taught to get rid of them is not the way to do so. You have to want to get rid of them 1st of all, then you have to take authority over them through Jesus to make them leave. It takes a strong follower of Christ to get rid of them.
jehovahjirehprovides 1 year ago
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You are hideous
AKleafs482 1 year ago
Good Video as ever.
I think all people Pretend to believe, it's easier than fighting religion, or being outcast by your friends, & family. Then it becomes a habit so much that people start to believe they believe in religion. So all the religious in the world are pretending, or worse telling a lie for profit, power, money, or EGO. Religion is pure EVIL.
RichardSpluge 1 year ago
What a clever deception that you made up to further cloud the understanding of people who need deliverance for real. Many are deceivers for true as the scriptures expose, but the few who are called do experience the reality of God's love to us. God is not religion...He is the all wise, all powerful Creator that is found in everyday life by simply seeking Him by faith. I feel sorry for the producer of this video because she has had a real bad exposure to religion that has turned her away from God
6468lee 1 year ago
@6468lee I have freedom from religion for good reason.
Americas founding fathers George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, & Ben Franklin were Atheist or Deists. They gave us freedom from religion to protect us from Religious wack jobs like you , peddle your snake oil to no one Shut up, Thank You.
RichardSpluge 1 year ago 3
@RichardSpluge This is so sad...Washington, Jefferson and Franklin are all dead and America is now dying too...Freedom? Do you know that Christ is risen from the dead and is alive...He gives true freedom my friend, not religion, not snake oil, not atheist, not deists...but Jesus Christ only.
6468lee 1 year ago
@6468lee Now I'm offended your violating my right to freedom from Religion, stop preaching to me sir. You have no rights to preach to me or anyone I have freedom from that in the constitution. I consider any religious Preaching a Hate Crime & a violation of my rights. So please stop replying to me.
RichardSpluge 1 year ago
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@RichardSpluge "Now I'm offended your violating my right to freedom from Religion."
So must your freedom enslave me? Don't I have the right to freedom of expression? Didn't you freely express your negative views against me? What you call freedom is bondage and in any case I don't support 'religion' , I support the written word of God that cannot be rebutted or disproved and is profitable for correction, instruction and advice on good living...What's your problem with that?
6468lee 1 year ago
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6468lee 1 year ago
The issue of animal cruelty doesn't really belong here. The issue of a soul does. If you recall, All I was trying to do was get you to understand why your original assumption that I had no basis for conjecturing that a human soul could possibly exist is simply wrong. I believe I have made a compelling case for it that is in no way based on my opinion about anything. Just observable facts about the nature of ourselves.
ananiasacts 1 year ago
How many supernatural creatures do religious imbeciles believe in? Is there a catalog of them all somewhere?
ananiasacts 1 year ago
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"How many supernatural creatures do religious imbeciles believe in? Is there a catalog of them all somewhere? "
Actually, yes: local library for one, but I'm sure there a bunch of archive or wikipedia or dedication websites for just such a thing.
ThatOneQuestion 1 year ago
Every time I hear these stories I wanna cry it reminded me of Jesus camp
deadsnowman83 1 year ago
Growing up in that atmosphere I can understand why you left. But does rejecting that kind of literalist fundamentalism mean you have to reject god or any sort of spirtuality altogether? Just a question.
TheRevaluator 1 year ago
"But does rejecting that kind of literalist fundamentalism mean you have to reject god or any sort of spirtuality altogether?"
Certainly not.
While the person might be "put off" for a while, they might again seek comfort of a god.
However, with this background you do get exposed to the bullshit that is religion, and that can permanently open your eyes to the reality about religion.
ThatOneQuestion 1 year ago 3
@ThatOneQuestion, even I believe we have a soul. It's just that I think it's made out of lots of tiny robots and not some sort of etherial-net connection to a celestial sugar daddy.
ananiasacts 1 year ago
"even I believe we have a soul. It's just that I think it's made out of lots of tiny robots..."
Ahh but here is the real question: why?
What validates that claim of yours?
Thats why Theists fail-they have nothing but their opinion and are actually comforted by their willful ignorance being the sheep they are.
ThatOneQuestion 1 year ago
@ThatOneQuestion, Because it seems plausible. Everything but our brains is just machinery. It hosts a sort of virtual organ we call the mind. The stuff that you're communicating with right now is all metaphysical in nature--a suitable place for a soul to exist. We each host a huge collection of memes that compete for our attention and their collective effect is the basis of all the things we associate with that word--soul. Also personality, consciousness, etc are likewise 'memetic effects.'
ananiasacts 1 year ago
"Because it seems plausible"
Yes, to you-and thats the issue: opinion. It differs between every single individual yet we all value our own opinion above that of others, usually.
Opinions like these also help paint how you see the world, your perspective. While you see machines running our bodies so that our "soul" can live, I see a galaxy of organisms working together while the electrical masterpiece, "us" continues on almost obliviously.
ThatOneQuestion 1 year ago
@ThatOneQuestion, I note that you didn't address my reasoning on why it seem plausible that we have souls. Of course it my opinion, but that's flatly irrelevant to the issue.
You offered no reasoning. Just a different claim. But what matters is why you've adopted it, not that you have.
ananiasacts 1 year ago
"I note that you didn't address my reasoning"
Yes I did. Its your personal opinion, and everyone has one. If you dont know why personal opinions are disregarded when making claims about how things work, then I'll explain:
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Claims that are presented without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
These should be well known phrases, not to mention common sense.
ThatOneQuestion 1 year ago
"You offered no reasoning. Just a different claim."
A claim is, by nature, the reasoning of the individual making it. I saw your reasoning of the specific claim you made and offered in my own reasoning.
"But what matters is why you've adopted it"
I stated my opinion with the exact same level of merit and value as you did with yours, so what is the problem?
I agree completely that the "why" part the most important part, but you omitted that in your statement as well.
ThatOneQuestion 1 year ago
@ThatOneQuestion, All of that is irrelevant to what I said. I get the feeling you're just very angry and are using this forum to vent it. I have no idea why.
ananiasacts 1 year ago
"All of that is irrelevant to what I said"
No it isn't, its your opinion and you dont have any evidence for it, just your personal thoughts.
I asked you why, and the reason you gave was this: "Because it seems plausible". That is your opinion. You base that opinion on your understanding of the body being a machine, but saying that the brain is unlike all the other organs because it holds the soul.
You have no validation for this except for opinion.
ThatOneQuestion 1 year ago
@ThatOneQuestion, And then went on to explain why, That's the part you ignored. Try again.
ananiasacts 1 year ago
@ananiasacts
If you are unable to understand why I am not impressed with your "reasoning" based on nothing but personal opinion, then there really isn't anywhere else to go with it.
Trying to say "souls" exist because they live in our brains really doesn't inspire a great deal of intelligence behind that statement.
Do you actually have anything besides personal opinion to validate any of these opinions of yours?
ThatOneQuestion 1 year ago
@ThatOneQuestion, What kind of a thing is a word?
ananiasacts 1 year ago
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"@ThatOneQuestion, What kind of a thing is a word? "
A concept bound into the language we have.
Great-are you going to go off into useless philosophical tangents?
Religious philosophy is nothing more than mental masturbation. It doesn't solve anything, it doesn't reveal anything, and it has failed to validate anything for thousands of years.
ThatOneQuestion 1 year ago
@ThatOneQuestion, No, I just wanted to know which word you would use. And I don't believe every word is a concept at all. A word is a rather more complicated object than that--a metaphysical object that can have impact on our minds; changing them. A meme that can be pronounced would be a better definition. But my point is that you too agree that metaphysical things, like words, or numbers can be "real" in the all the senses of the word that matter: functional, well defined, useable. etc.
ananiasacts 1 year ago
"But my point is that you too agree that metaphysical things, like words, or numbers can be "real"...."
That doesn't mean we are meat sacks possessed by a energetic force. THAT is my point.
The "soul" is your opinion, and you have no validation for believing in that, certainly no evidence.
ThatOneQuestion 1 year ago
@ThatOneQuestion, I'm trying to explain it, do you believe that the metaphysical objects that our minds manipulate to communicate with each other, model the reality we experience, contemplate, etc, are real or not?
ananiasacts 1 year ago
"I'm trying to explain it"
You are dancing on the topic of thought and reality, which, an interesting topic, is religious philosophy and is, pardon the pun, immaterial to the point.
You cant prove anything about this "soul" thing possessing these meat sacks you see and continuing to exist afterward.
This is why I wasn't letting you go anywhere with it: remember what I said about opinion?
Assertions without evidence, and all of that?
ThatOneQuestion 1 year ago
@ananiasacts
This entire subject of trying to logically work out what thought or logic is or can be is a pointless exercise in mental masturbation.
You wont get anywhere in your validation of souls by trying to assert that our minds influence reality in some way, or debating about thoughts being "real" or not.
Try answering this: if we have souls, how did it come to be? Sperm or the egg, or was it floating around waiting to possess a bag of flesh in a mother's womb?
Try, if you can.
ThatOneQuestion 1 year ago
@ananiasacts
What I find laughable about people trying to argue about this "soul" thing is that you end up with nothing but the opinion of what t "is" and where it could be going, but almost never how it got there in the first place.
The fear of death creates lots of bullshit people invent to deal with that inevitability. That being the case, people rarely ever even think it out, they just want to believe.
ThatOneQuestion 1 year ago
@ThatOneQuestion, I'm not claiming the soul is anything different than the mind is. In the same way that our physical brain can host something metaphysical, like our minds, our minds can host something even more abstract, which the word soul is the closest concept. Note that this implies that it dies with us. But also, and uniquely because it is built on top of the mind rather than the brain, it might actually be possible to make them immortal in some sense. You might be doing it right now.
ananiasacts 1 year ago
"In the same way that our physical brain can host something metaphysical, like our minds, our minds can host something even more abstract, which the word soul is the closest concept"
And thats your opinion. Do you really understand why you hit such a hard wall with me before? After years of dealing with BS like this treated as something more than it is, I can usually smell when its coming, like I did with you.
Opinions are nice, but everyone has their own.
ThatOneQuestion 1 year ago
@ThatOneQuestion "You wont get anywhere in your validation of souls by trying to assert that our minds influence reality in some way"
You can't possibly believe this. How is it possible for you to use this forum if your mind is unable to have any causal effect on reality?
ananiasacts 1 year ago
"How is it possible for you to use this forum if your mind is unable to have any causal effect on reality? "
In the same way any animal uses a tool or influences the environment.
Regardless, you are taking that statement out of context. Remember what you were talking about before on words and asking if they are real or not?? THAT is what I was referring to, not the result of electrical impulses telling our muscles to do something.
ThatOneQuestion 1 year ago
@ananiasacts
This entire conversation is quite pointless, as you have nothing but your opinion and desire to cheat death.
Can you seriously not understand why BS like this is meaningless? You have your unsubstantiated opinion about how you would like the world to work, but you have nothing of value to offer as a means to actually validate that.
ThatOneQuestion 1 year ago
@ThatOneQuestion, I have no desire to cheat death, nor have I been stating my opinion in the last few posts, just stating rather obvious facts.
ananiasacts 1 year ago
@ThatOneQuestion, But that is the point. That we are very much virtual creatures that inhabit robotic bodies. Organs in your brain convert the sensory input into purely metaphysical objects that are manipulated by a virtual organ we call the mind to activate the motor neurons that finally give your metaphysical self real teeth.
I'm not taking your statement out of context. You can't deny that our thoughts are metaphysical things and that they can direct our actions. That disproves your claim.
ananiasacts 1 year ago
"That we are very much virtual creatures that inhabit robotic bodies."
And how did that come into being? Do our bodies create the "soul", or is the "soul" something floating around waiting to possess what would otherwise be a lifeless sack of meat if it was to be born without a "soul"?
ThatOneQuestion 1 year ago
"You can't deny that our thoughts are metaphysical things and that they can direct our actions"
Do animals have a metaphysical "self" since they have all the same kind of organs we do, and the exact same electrochemical processes produce their actions?
And no, your opinions dont prove anything.
ThatOneQuestion 1 year ago
And before you say that humans are 'above' animals, I'm just going to say dont even go there. We are animals.
If your condition for this created/possessing "soul" is thought rather than mere action, then look at any primate, canine, large sea animal.
All of them have examples of thought beyond simple reaction to environmental stimuli.
ThatOneQuestion 1 year ago
If you are going to go further and talk about "self sacrifice" or other such notions as an even finer condition for this "soul" thing, then look at this:
type "highway dog rescue" and you will find an amazing bit of footage of a dog dragging another dog off of a highway. It didn't use its mouth to drag the injured dog, it was being gentle.
ThatOneQuestion 1 year ago
@ThatOneQuestion, I sure think so. Obviously they must share a great deal of the same mental machinery as we do since we use the same genes to build it. But there is reason to believe that there is a huge difference in the way information is processed--the software animal brains tend to host versus ours. They don't seem to have the capacity for recursion or analogy.
ananiasacts 1 year ago
"They don't seem to have the capacity for recursion or analogy. "
You are aware that we can use sign language to speak to trained primates, right?
How could we possibly run installations like Sea World if these animals are so far "beneath" us? The ability for dolphins and other such animals to understand a completely different species and understand our desires and concepts isn't enough of a qualification?
ThatOneQuestion 1 year ago
I saw a documentary about the butchery of dolphins in Japan fishing villages by the man who trained and acted with the dolphins who became Flipper in the old TV series.
I cant remember the name of it now, but when you hear some of these people talk about the kind and level of connection animals like that are able to understand us, it becomes very clear just how well they can think.
Also, some primates in zoos or in study groups can paint. That shows a will to convey concepts through mediums
ThatOneQuestion 1 year ago
@ThatOneQuestion, LOL. I think it was the San Diego Zoo. In any event, I don't know. But you're preaching to the choir here. I think all farms should be run like Polyface by guys like Joel Salatin (who writes great books on the topic.) His animals are happy. You can tell by looking at them.
ananiasacts 1 year ago
"His animals are happy. "
HAHAHHA!!! Just so the humans can reduce their own guilt when they butcher the animals eventually???
That is completely moronic. If you are going to be keeping animals in a concentration camp, no matter the size, who's only fate is to be butchered because they are a food source, you shouldn't be in the business if you work hard to slaughter them while thinking they had a good time.
ThatOneQuestion 1 year ago
@ThatOneQuestion, you obviously know nothing about Polyface farms. Yes. Happy animals.
ananiasacts 1 year ago
@ThatOneQuestion, yes, that's more or less why we believe they don't have a sense of recursion, because of the differing ways we use language. I'm not claiming to know if they can suffer in anything like the way we can. So far, it does appear as if some do, and suggests we're probably being rather brutal to permit CAFOs.
ananiasacts 1 year ago
@ThatOneQuestion, Our bodies create the place a soul can grow in, and set up a lot of boundaries on what sort of properties it can have, but it's probably mostly memes from our environment that actually combine to create the software we use to model reality and experience as ourselves. Souls and no different than the ability of your car to drive. It has something to do with the physical properties of the car, but needs a driver to go anywhere. Car will one day host virtual drivers.
ananiasacts 1 year ago
@ananiasacts
Okay, so then anything that has a brain has a "soul"?
ThatOneQuestion 1 year ago
@ThatOneQuestion, in a sense, of course. But the relevant question is whether they have souls that are anything like ours; capable of being aware of their own mortality, for example.
ananiasacts 1 year ago
"capable of being aware of their own mortality, for example. "
Again, google "highway dog rescue" for the answer.
ThatOneQuestion 1 year ago
@ananiasacts
So it looks like you are willing to grant the idea that everything with a brain has a "soul", but now you quibble on the "quality" of that "soul".
What exactly is your final point here?
This is exactly why you hit the wall early on-its all your opinion and I can keep going to show just how little you have really thought this out.
ThatOneQuestion 1 year ago
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"and suggests we're probably being rather brutal to permit CAFOs. "
And raising animals just to be slaughtered is perfectly fine if we do it on a small enough scale??
Come on-that is ridiculous. Butchery is butchery. Its like trying to feel good about executing a criminal by making sure the lethal injection is sterilized before you kill him.
What a joke.
ThatOneQuestion 1 year ago
@ThatOneQuestion, I don't think the scale of a farm matters, it's whether or not the animals are happy and healthy that matters. But I agree that's a lot easier to accomplish on modest sized or small farms.
ananiasacts 1 year ago
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"it's whether or not the animals are happy and healthy that matters."
Yes.... so you do believe a lethal injection should be sterilized before you execute the prisoner?
ThatOneQuestion 1 year ago
@ThatOneQuestion, no. Save the cost.
ananiasacts 1 year ago
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TOQ - so you do believe a lethal injection should be sterilized before you execute the prisoner?
ananiasacts - "no. Save the cost."
Then why specialize a farm to have a minimal population, make sure you believe they are "happy", before you butcher them?
ThatOneQuestion 1 year ago
@ThatOneQuestion, Two reasons, first, because I hate the idea of thinking of them suffering and have every reason to believe that (especially farm animals which wander around where they're being dressed with no apparent awareness that they're next or putting up any sort of struggle when the same hands that have picked them up many times before pick them up one last time) they are incapable of appreciating their own mortality. They just get dead, they don't realize they're even dying at the time.
ananiasacts 1 year ago
@ThatOneQuestion, The other reason is because I care about people too. And unhappy animals are unhealthy to eat.
ananiasacts 1 year ago
@ThatOneQuestion, behaving in ways that avoid getting killed is not the same as being aware of your mortality.
ananiasacts 1 year ago
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"behaving in ways that avoid getting killed is not the same as being aware of your mortality. "
Did you actually watch the video or are you just assuming you know what I'm talking about?
That dog was either risking his own life for a friend dog or risking his life for a stranger dog.
He damn well knew the risks, and yet you sit there calling him a mindless beast unaware of the situation.
What... was it by chance that the dog knew enough NOT to use its teeth??
ThatOneQuestion 1 year ago
@ThatOneQuestion, no. Scary videos involving animals are too hard to watch. But relax, I'm not trying to diminish the standing of animals at all, quite the contrary, I'm claiming that what most people claim makes us special, a soul, is meaningless in and of itself and has no intrinsic value. I also think the dumbest animal on earth is more valuable than a parasitic human. I do not believe anything at all has any intrinsic value of any sort. Just what others give it. That's how value works.
ananiasacts 1 year ago
"I'm claiming that what most people claim makes us special, a soul, is meaningless in and of itself and has no intrinsic value"
Well we agree then, especially since I dont believe in such a fancy to begin with, and I do recognize how others use it to put themselves on a pillar.
ThatOneQuestion 1 year ago
"Scary videos involving animals are too hard to watch"
And yes, same for me. I would rather watch humans butchering each other rather than a human being cruel to animals. Animal cruelty is sickening.
However, bullshit to make yourself feel better about killing them is pretty pathetic. But thats the good thing about opinions, we all have our own.
ThatOneQuestion 1 year ago
@ThatOneQuestion, It's about a lot more than the welfare of the animals. It's us too. Our food supply sucks. Guys like Salatin are doing something really wise to try and fix it and fighting everyone from the government, to the ignorant extremists that don't even realize the only alternative is to let those species go extinct because none of them existed before we breed them or are fit to exist in the present wild. That's a rather radical solution.
ananiasacts 1 year ago
Guys like Salatin...
"respect the design of Creation"
Oh wonderful... I'm going to assume, by the info on your channel, that while you dont believe in his religious views you respect what he is doing?
quote from:
watch?v=BIbXU5iR2P4
Side now.... WOW ...now we are getting really far off topic from AngiAntiTheist's video
ThatOneQuestion 1 year ago
@ThatOneQuestion, I hate the fact that he happens to be a Christian too. But that doesn't affect the science he uses to work out how to run a healthy farm. A handful of perfectly good scientists are religious scum as well. That doesn't detract from their work one bit. I reckon they were imprinted as kids and are addicted to something hard to give up. Bummer. I still think Joel deserves a nobel prize for his ingenious approach to farming, where the animals do most of the real work of farming.
ananiasacts 1 year ago
@ThatOneQuestion, Odd then that you don't have a problem with the word "mind." I'm assuming you do believe you have one of those, and realize that it is something that processes information (which is, by definition, metaphysical) than why is it so hard for you to accept the fact (yes, fact) that a human soul may be every bit as real as a human mind is? It too is nothing but information.
ananiasacts 1 year ago
"I'm assuming you do believe you have [a mind], and realize that it is something that processes information"
Yes, of course I have a specialized organ that facilitates every action that I do. It, however, is not a magical vessel for my "essence".
Tell me... since you love going into this field of opinion and "metaphysical", have you tried to contemplate what Artificial Intelligence would contribute to that concept of yours?
Would a powerful computer system have a soul if it could think?
ThatOneQuestion 1 year ago
"than why is it so hard for you to accept the fact (yes, fact) that a human soul may be every bit as real as a human mind is?"
Dont lie. It is not a fact. Stop making things up and pretending they are fact. These are your opinions, and no matter how logical you think it is, it is NOT a fact.
Dont confuse opinion with fact.
ThatOneQuestion 1 year ago
@ThatOneQuestion, if we design a machine capable of hosting a soul, and give it a way to grow one, then yes, I'd say the machine had as much of a soul as we have, or could potentially. Suppose I replace every neuron in your body, one at a time, by a machine that simulated it perfectly? Would you still be you? I think so.
ananiasacts 1 year ago
"if we design a machine capable of hosting a soul"
And with that I think I'll end this conversation. I had a good laugh with this, yet I realize that you are going to pretty much say anything without thinking too hard.
Its amusing to me you think we can manufacture souls.
I'll leave you with this: suppose someone loses all of their memories and never recovers them... their personality will change, but does that influence their "soul"?
ThatOneQuestion 1 year ago
@ThatOneQuestion, I'm guessing you're young enough get to see it happen in the next decade or two too. Yes, I'm foolish enough to think you'll be using software one day that seems just as intelligent and aware of the world and its role in it as we are.
ananiasacts 1 year ago
"...and that can permanently open your eyes to the reality about religion."
What is the reality about religion, exactly? The vision of reality differs from person to person. Not everybody is you, and therefore doesn't see the world as you see fit. To you, religion is a fraud. To others, it could be their entire world, a small part of their world, or a beloved part which they will always hold in their hearts.
You truly know nothing about sociology.
TheMightyTreeMan 1 year ago
"You truly know nothing about sociology. "
Coming from a habitual liar, that means absolutely nothing.
ThatOneQuestion 1 year ago
"Coming from a habitual liar, that means absolutely nothing. "
Talk about a cop out (and a broken record.)
Again, you know nothing about sociology.
TheMightyTreeMan 1 year ago
"Talk about a cop out"
You should look up what a "cop out" is, kid, you got it wrong, yet again.
Keep failing, TMTM, you really do betray your foolishness every time you speak.
ThatOneQuestion 1 year ago
"You should look up what a "cop out" is, kid, you got it wrong, yet again."
I brought up the subject of the sociological aspects of religion, and you changed the subject back to "liar!" to avoid embarrassing yourself in a subject that you know nothing about. The fact that you merely ignored it, instead of stating, "I don't know the sociological aspects of religion," is a major cop out.
Dickhead.
TheMightyTreeMan 1 year ago
"The fact that you merely ignored it..."
Ignored what, your baseless opinion? Awe, poor widdle TMTM hurt by being ignored and the truth of his lies yet again exposed to the public.
Cry me a river and drown yourself in it, kid. You arn't fooling anyone.
ThatOneQuestion 1 year ago
"Ignored what, your baseless opinion? ."
No, ignored the sociological aspects of religion; the exact same thing I've been talking about the last five or six posts. The mere fact that every time I bring up a subject which you know absolutely nothing about, you seemingly change the subject back to "Your fucking opinion fucking is fucking baseless fucking liar fuck."
Cop out. Something the unintelligent do.
TheMightyTreeMan 1 year ago
I love you Angie, Keep up the awesome stuff. You're smart and beautiful.
MxC1337MxCsh43d 1 year ago
This soul-tie list sounds like a catholic confession. It is a common tool of brain washing to get your victim to spill their guts about deeply intimate details.
These people know what they are doing!
MindAndMarzipan 1 year ago