well the m5 has no excuse if they had lost. since they had the longest development time over all the others. Not really exciting considering if you know anything about the cars you probably already knew which would win.
the bmw m5 f10 is a common car without a more powerful engine without a turbo is the normal version, Motivi not have to put a Porsche Panamera Turbo's, if an m5 f10 with some modification to make faster oh yes.
BMW M5 is not faster than E63 AMG. It's not slower but it's not faster either. If you look at the start the Merc's driver is sleeping amd the bmw driver is going before everybody else. this is a video made only to show a lie - that the bmw M5 is finally better than the AMG but it is a cheat. just because the driver of the AMG is taking off after the M5 driver that doesn't mean thah the car is slower
@bolofton CTS-V is not a premium car, it doesn't deserve to be put next to the cars in this video. Its fast and good as a sports car, but unlike any of cars in this video, that performance comes at a price....lack of luxury, lack of refinement, lack of comfort, lack of space inside, small boot, horrible interior quality in comparison, filled with cheap materials and parts taken from much cheaper GM cars, etc...its just not a car that does everything well.
@derbigpr500 Yeah, the performance and handling/braking capabilities of the CTS-V are world class and are on par with (or in some cases exceed these cars here)...however the cabin shows where the cost savings are. Then again, the price difference is about $30,000 USD less on average between the V and these other cars. The average maintenance costs will be substantially less with the V as well. Different car for a different segment...even IF the performance, handling, and braking are so similar.
@2003SCT The price difference is only like that in the U.S. In Europe and elsewhere, the CTS-V can cost as much or more than these cars. The same goes for maintenance.
As to performance, the CTS-V was great against the previous m5, but I don't think it would hold up against the F10.
@MewCat100 I don't know why the price difference would soar SO extremely. Do you know why it would? I mean the V is made for the U.S. market essentially to compete with these cars BUT on a discounted level. V starts at $64K USD where the M5 starts at $92K-ish. The E60 M5 was outrun and outhandled by the "then new" 09 CTS-V in a number of tests (3.9 0-60, 118 mph trap speed, 191 mph top speed) and I would assume the M5 might have a TINY advantage now..but nothing more than 1/10 of a sec. or so.
@2003SCT the new m5 does the quater mile in 12s, cts-v does it in 12.6 ..the old m5 did it in 13s.. there is a huge leap in terms of everything from the old m5 and the new and i've seen the review between the old m5 and the cts-v and it didn't exactly put the m5 to shame.. it was marginally better performance wise... this new one is out of its class and it costs £72k .. ctsv costs £64k .. ctsv wont be getting any fans from europe, and will probably lost some in the US too maybe
@blahblop123 Well in the handling department, the old M5 was shown up by the significantly more advanced MR suspension setup and 6 pot Brembos on the V but yes the interior and the nameplate are certainly worth the money for those in the market. (Again, here the difference is a lot of money) The new M5 should prove to be very impressive..then again it SHOULD be impressive at the price AND considering it is the PEAK of what BMW can produce.
@2003SCT According to unofficial records, the m5 is 4 seconds faster around the Nurburgring than the CTS-V, which is huge. The price difference has to do with what country you are in, where the car is manufactured, where the parts come from, etc. I agree that the 2009 CTS-V beat the 2009 m5, but the m5 design and engine were 4 years old at that point, so Caddy had a 4 year head start. The new m5 and CTS-V are a better comparo as there is only a 2 year gap, though that is still a lot.
@MewCat100 Sure I will accept that the brand new 2012 M5 is a solid 4 seconds faster than the 'unchanged from 2009' CTS-V. And I will ALSO accept that the 2009 CTS-V was a massive 14 seconds faster than the 2005-2010 E60 BMW M5. Caddy did have a 4 year head start just as the 2012 M5 has an almost 4 year head start on the 09' CTS-V. And the other poster says that the V costs 65K+ GBP which is crazy because in the U.S. we pay the equivalent of 39-41K GBP brand new at a dealer.
@MewCat100 My last post had as much of a point as your previous post did...in fact they are quite similar albeit with different undertones. I have a substantial background IN and knowledge OF cars. I know why car pricing is different from country to country but the U.S. does not tack on substantial tariffs like other countries do on imported cars and I still find it crazy that because of those tariffs , prices swing so wildly. Or did you not like my earlier post due to all the truth in it?
@2003SCT So your point that GM created an inexpensive car using $40 billion in taxpayer bailouts was intended to show what? GM cannot actually produce a decent car without massive cash influxes and bankruptcy filings. BMW managed to not only create the market segment for sport-luxury sedans, but make a huge profit while doing it. Your point is completely moot. I could create an m5 killer in my basement if I had $40 billion dollars to burn.
@MewCat100 I actually am more well versed in automotive history than in pricing per se. You will probably never drive anything near to the V nor the M5 we speak about. I was merely stating performance facts and that the V is a solid performer albeit 4 years old now and I guess you couldn't deal with reality so you swap over to bailout talk...its like debating a creationist..."lets swap topics because I can't deal with facts"...lol. Its like me bringing up Nazi's in a Mercedes discussion. lol
6. The bailout is relevant. GM needed $40 billion, 4 years, and two attempts to beat BMW. BMW required no bailout, only one attempt, and less time (3 years) to beat Caddy.
7. Automotive history is also not the same as understanding cars.
8. Whether I drive a CTS-V or M5 or neither does not affect my ability to read numbers and assess performance of the two cars.
@MewCat100 And to bring your OWN point back to you, the fact that GM received government money doesn't affect the product at hand nor the lap times it runs. Who cares that the Japanese government paid for a majority of the R&D of the Prius? Does THAT affect being able to do an objective review of the product? Does a review of an Ipod require that you remember how $150M from Microsoft kept Apple from going out of business in the late 1990s?
@MewCat100 Points 1-4 are correct and Points 7-8 are correct so at least we agree on the majority of those which was clear before to anyone reading this. My point with the Nazi thing is because I have heard people use that...and its irrelevant. GM needed $40 billion dollars mostly to make up for the fact that that the union was sucking them dry and that they had gone from worlds largest car company to worlds largest health care provider.
@2003SCT Seems that you are claiming you know a lot about car prices, which is not the same as knowing a lot about cars. My apologies if I misread what you had written. At any rate, the CTS-V is a poser car. It is less expensive for a reason.
@2003SCT the E60 m5 nurburgring times were done by Horst Van Saurma.. who seems to lap everything ALOT slower than anyone else.. take the zr1 for example.. the 2009 zr1 by Horst was done in 7:38 .. same car, but with GM test driver, 7:26.. same with the nissan GTR, porsche's every car basically.. i'm not saying every lap he does is 12 seconds slower.. its just the the full potential of the e60 on the nurburgring hasn't been witnessed yet..
@blahblop123 Yeah, and I actually don't hold 'Ring times in high regard anyway due to there not being an actual sanctioning body which would regulate cars, tires and manufacturers claims. If I would use a time it would merely be in response to somebody using that time as something more it actually is. When regulated and sanctioned, the 'Ring times would be an excellent metric for all sport-cars to be judged by due to the track being so all-encompassing for a car's strengths and weaknesses.
@2003SCT well, GM are doing well using nurburgring numbers to get sales.. "fastest 4 door saloon around the ring" they said.. the panamera turbo is atm, but you dont see them mentioning it...every 2 seconds.. they did the same with the zr1/z06.. they even put on pilot sport cups (grippiest road legal tyres) to get a really fast time, to mention in every sale.. i agree with you here though, i only take nurburgring times when someone else brings them up.. in reality, they mean fuck all..
@blahblop123 Yes, GM has been using 'Ring times not as much to get sales (though that is the end goal) but it has been part of the last 10 years of resurrecting a brand that was nearly dead (as were many of its customer base) and for people to take their new direction seriously. The Z06 model was created for younger people to consider the Corvette...because prior to 2001, a younger demographic didn't.
@2003SCT in the z06's case, they were attracted to how fast it goes around ring.. but you can't attract them to it by putting michelin pilot sport cup tyres.. they are, financially, a flop because they wear out REALLY quick, are VERY expensive, dont give any grip in the wet, are noisy, uncomfortable.. and considering they will be used on the road 90% of the time, are complete liability 90% of the time.., if you take them off, you dont have 7:22 car.. thats false expectation in my eyes..
@blahblop123 Actually the high test tyres you speak of are available on the Z06 but most do not come with those..its part of a $7,500 package that you can select that has those special tyres, carbon brakes and enhanced cooling...essentially a "Track Pack". I don't think they are "cheating" anymore than the optional Track Pack on a Lotus Exige S is cheating because it comes with DOT legal slicks with a wear rating of 60. In fact, I think its awesome on both accounts!
@2003SCT the corvette tyres are also DOT legal slicks with the same wear rating of 60.. its part of the 7500 package which goes up to 15k because it requires the carbon pack and magnet dampers.. its cheating when use it solely to boost sales (or to improve public image).. in fact i respected the vette before GM did that.. you can imagine how someone would buy a vette with z07 pack, enjoy it and be amazed by how quick it is, till the tyres wear and the bill for new ones come in
@2003SCT GM Leaf springs on the Corvette. Bmw M5 Integral V aluminum shaft and multi-link specific elastokinematics M. Suspension of three-dimensional effect, with compensation to start and stop sinking and lots of things is the price difference.
@2003SCT My english is very bad so I use the google translator, copy and paste"cardboard is a way to express themselves, and know very well that has roof and other parts in carbon fiber, other than the" cardboard "haha, you speak very typical of a person who reads a lot and talk on the forums, the last time driving a Corvette, I saw that it was uncontrollable,how many cars have you tried? and know what is effective and what not, try some Bmw M and then give us your opinion...
@bmw1Motorsport Nice job googling then copy and pasting specs...lol. I know the word elastokinematics probably gets you excited because its sounds super technical and all however they are just referring to the stiffer (and specific) bushing materials used in the suspension. If you want a much more technologically advanced suspension technology than the M5's control arm/multilink setup, check out the CTS-Vs Double SLA and "Electric Magnetorheological Damper" layout. :)
@blahblop123 The Ring times are marketing..plain and simple. Its much the same as Lexus doing nearly 20 years of the most pretentious commercials imaginable to prove to the public that if you buy one you are smarter than everyone else (crash test "genius", the voice, clever and continual specific adjective usage, etc). I suspect the high number of Vette crashes are due to high hp, twitchy nature, inexperienced drivers AND that GM sells a TON of them...between 20K and 35K units PER YEAR.
@2003SCT ring times show you how fast a car is given a certain driver, conditions etc.. but you can't put DOT slicks on all purpose sports car and claim that time.the viper ACR uses the same tyres, because its a trackday car, it was never supposed to be a comfy grand tourer, only to cut lap times. same with the gt2 RS.the GTR,LFA and alot of other supercars that did it with cheaper, all purpose road tyres, and thats the benchmark for those cars. z06 is yet to go aroud without the slicks
@blahblop123 That is absolutely incorrect. This new tyre (developed in connection with Team Corvette) is just that...a BRAND NEW tyre for the car. They RAN the C6 Z06 back in like 2005/2006 and it clocked a 7:42.99..you can look it up and see the other supercars it hangs with at that time level. Again, this was almost 6 years ago now...not news in the car world...I wanna say those were even the old all seasons..not gen 2 and certainly not gen 3 tyres.
@2003SCT michelin pilot sport cup zero pressure.. vs the 2006 one which were all season, and look at the difference... it doesn't matter who developed the tyres, they wear out quick, are expensive, rough, loud and dont work in anything but warm dry tarmac.
@blahblop123 I don't think the point of a Z06 is supposed to be that its a comfy grand tourer...I know you have never ridden in one but they ride pretty stiffly. A stiff riding car, with track suspension, giant carbon brakes, lightweight wheels, titanium engine parts, 7,000+ rpm redline, complete aluminum frame with carbon fiber and composite fenders, a 1,400 kg curb weight....and then YOU think its CHEATING when they add PS2 cup tyres?
@2003SCT well, why is it offered with heated seats ? (adds weight) why doesn't it have a roll cage? (increase chassis rigidity) why is it offered with magnet dampers with a "tour" setting ? (maybe because it was built to cope with everyday driving, how un-trackday like) why no spoiler, or canards ? and theres a difference between PS2 tyres, and Pilot sport cup ZERO PRESSURE tyres
@blahblop123 The Z06 is a car which is very popular out here in California for people to take to and from the track..you can drive it there and drive it home. The Z07 package adds that extra bit of track day-ness for those who are more serious about it...simple as that. Its also a model that shows the commitment of Corvette to its deeply woven racing history and heritage. The Corvette has a huge client base who buy them to race on the weekends..why is that SO hard for you to fucking understand?
@blahblop123 Thats great that the $450K LFA, the $250K GT2 RS, the newly revamped AWD $100K GTR and a Viper ACR only slightly beat a "track version" of a car which is based on a 6 year old sports car that starts at $49,600. Will you admit that the "Track Pack" for the AMG C63 Black Series is unfair because it comes with Dunlop R Compounds? OF COURSE you won't because your bias is ONLY against the Corvette. Stop compartmentalizing your automotive preferences so profoundly...it shows.
@2003SCT starts at 49k ? no it doesn't.. its starts at 90k, get your facts right, the standard and the 7:22 z06 vette's are miles apart, one is a hard top, the other is a targa top and is as wobbley as a wet lettuce.. and you just proved my point.. 'only slightly beat' and '49k' will stick and someone stupid enough will be impressed by the corvette and buy a 49k vette only to realise its SHIT..
@blahblop123 I was referring to the fact that the $90K Z06 is based on a $50K car....the $450K Nurburgring Edition LFA is based on a $375K car so you are right...they are perfect to be comparing. LOL. A $49K base Vette gets you: 430 hp, 186 mph, 0-60 in 4.3 sec., 25 mpg hwy, 60-0 braking in 117 ft. and a MASSIVE aftermarket of cheap go fast add ons. So if the LFA got better tires would it be unfair? To you...probably not. To you, Corvette is the only sports car not allowed to have them.
@2003SCT what part of, if its not a trackday and has slicks it IS unfair dont you understand ??.. the fact is, the LFA doesn't have slicks on it.. there's no if's or but's it JUST doesn't...FACT... WHEN it does, THEN bring that arguement up.. the vette is the ONLY non track car that does it.. and by track day car, i mean weekend car.. dont say you dont see z06 potting around during the weekdays to do the local grocery shop.. because it CAN..
@blahblop123 Its an honest question..would the LFA getting a slicker tire like the Z07 package make the car a cheater? THE Z07 PACKAGE Z06 IS MADE FOR THE WEEKEND RACER NOT THE DAILY DRIVER. GM DOES NOT RECOMMEND THIS VEHICLE PACKAGE FOR DAILY USE..IT IS A CLUB SPORT PACKAGE INTENDED FOR DRIVERS TO GET THE MOST OUT OF THEIR Z06 UNDER CONTROLLED RACING CONDITIONS. I SEE Z06s DRIVING AROUND ALL THE TIME BUT I DON'T SEE Z07 PACKAGE CARS PROBABLY BECAUSE THEY HAVE A TRACK ORIENTED PACKAGE ON THEM.
@2003SCT honest answer, to your honest question .. YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSs for the billionth time !!!
@2003SCT well, the c63 black series is trackday car so it isn't unfair.. if the standard c63 had R compounds then yes it IS unfair... if maybach came with R compound and started claiming its the fastest megaluxury car around the ring, then that is OBVIOUSLY UNFAIR... radical is a trackday car so it can darn well wear whatever the fuck it likes as long as they're road legal.. no ones gunna tour europe in one of those..
@blahblop123 And I think you WILL have to agree and say that the C63 Black Series Track IS cheating if the Z07package is,at least the front and rear brake cooling vents on the Z06 are plumbed and functional..the Black Edition's are just for looks..as are most of the aero bits that are there to give a agressive look (which I like). C63 Black DOES have some functional aero enhancement but so does the Z. So in your mind, just some cannards would make the Z06 Z07 a track car but without..its not?lol
@2003SCT the black series wouldn't be cheating because its a track day cars already ! aero bits ? theres more to track driving than aero bits, put a roll cage in there, take out the heated seats, put racing buckets it... take out ALL the unnecessary weight..etc THAT is a trackday car.. merc even say the black series merc is only good for one type of road journey "from the track to your garage" and vice versa.what says 'trackday' more than that? do GM say anything along them lines ?NOO
@blahblop123 O.K. I will leave it at this and then I really will have to bow out. If you classify the Black Series AS a Track Day car and the Z07 Z06 as NOT, what are these massive differences that make one a track day car and one not...I seriously can't tell OTHER than the seats. I don't count the marketing speak either because 'tag lines' does not a racecar make. What are the actual physical differences that make a Z07 package Z06 not a track day car and the Black Series a total track day car?
@2003SCT its about the mechanical side of it, and the z06 does very little to bias it towards being a trackday.. little to no comprimise is made to make its better on the track .. why would you need heated seats on the track ? sat nav ? a 'tour' setting.. track cars are supposed to be as close to being racing cars without being road illegal.. i'd like to see the C6.R with heated seats, no roll cage, heavy magnet dampers with a' tour' setting and no spoilers and see if it wins anything
@blahblop123 Completely agree with you, BMW for example has the M3 GTS and Porsche 911 GT3 RS 4.0 and GT2 RS ........ that reflects more next has an authentic race car.
@blahblop123 I agree that a "true" track day car would be stripped of all that stuff too...but that makes the Black Series not a true track car because that thing is stripped of almost nothing. It keeps nearly all the creature comforts and makes almost no compromises for daily driving...its aesthetics and marketing are as significant as anything mechanical which is fine cause I totally dig it and LOVE the look.
@blahblop123 I agree that a "true" track day car would be stripped of all that stuff too...but that makes the Black Series not a true track car because that thing is stripped of almost nothing. It keeps nearly all the creature comforts and makes almost no compromises for daily driving...its aesthetics and marketing are as significant as anything mechanical which is fine cause I totally dig it and LOVE the look.
@blahblop123 Again, I think you answered your own point about track cars supposing to be close to race cars without being road illegal and the Black Series isn't if the Z07 isn't. The Black Series is more LUXURIOUS than most cars on the road..probably even rides better than most. Z06 uses lightweight items (magnesium cradle and carbon fiber panels and composite and aluminum frame) to save weight rather than pull things out of the car.
@bmw1Motorsport I don't know where your other comment went but no, mine was the 3.2L engine..it was the 1996 M3 that we got in the U.S. and even with the increase in displacement, it was still the same hp rating 240 hp actually:( . I am leaving this thread though so have a great day.
@blahblop123 And as we have seen with cars in the past (Mustang Cobra R and Cayman R come to mind) pulling out air conditioning and door handles and power locks and a radio actually doesn't save you much weight..on a car that weighs 3,000 lbs. Maybe 40 lbs if you take it ALL out. Its like the kid who takes the radio out of his Civic Si...helps him FEEL like a "racer". Any faster? Hardly .001 seconds which matters to F1 teams and WRC, not an overweight car with leather, airbags and carpeting.
@blahblop123 But anyway, it was nice chatting with you. I assume we agree on more things than we disagree about. I think we know what each other means..its just on the details I guess. Have a great day...signing off from surprisingly chilly Southern California.
@derbigpr500 FINALLY someone the looks at the reality of it and not wank over its hp and nurburgring numbers.. the car is cheap for a reason.. and it has lots of chrome on it errrh, and its HIDEOUS as sin.. and it costs £64k.. the m5 is £72k.. its does 1/4 in 12.6, the m5 does it in 12 dead.. that is a battery in 1/4 terms, and its faster around the track, and it IS a quality premium product, better mpg, better emmisions etc for 8k more.. CTSV is an appauling, overated rubbish..
@blahblop123 Yeah and you shouldn't compare the 'BRAND NEW' M5 with a less expensive 5 year old car/4 year old with V-Package car which hasn't gotten any updates as such. The new CTS and V are still about a year out and are surely going to make performance numbers and interiors better. And I found it funny that you are sick of hearing 'Ring numbers yet continue to talk about 1/4 and 0-60 times..So you like SOME numbers. I just wanna see handling track numbers of this "now old" CTS-V vs. 2012 M5!
@2003SCT numbers are good, they tell you about performance.. i'm fed of people ONLY looking at performance numbers.. the seats could be made out of poo and they'll still wank over performance numbers.. maybe if they looked carefully at the review they were reading, they'd see pictures and see its about a car.. 4 doors, 5 seats, steering wheel, a body made out of metal, 4 wheels
@2003SCT if the new ctsv comes out within a year and its faster then fair play, but i highly doubt that.. unless they stick a dual clutch system in there and lighten it, i can't really see that happening. but then again.. its a 4 door saloon.. it could be considered better if it was quieter, more comfy, better mpg, while still being quick (difficult with pushrods, so ditch it).. and looking good ofcourse (ditch the chrome would help)
@blahblop123 Yeah, they could just do the other version of the motor if they wanted to...take the ZR1 forged/titanium motor and make 635 stock or whatever its rated at. The new car will be quieter but it won't be lighter as it will be getting a little bigger so as to compete (platform size wise) with the E class and 5 series so that the new ATS can compete with C class and 3 series better. The new ATS and V variant is really gonna be the dynamic and standout kid many have been waiting for.
@2003SCT even with the zr1 engine, its gunna stuggle.. its gunna struggle against the cleaner, modern, effiecient, well garnished, new generation turbocharged european rivals. thats in terms of performance and value for money.. its been in sale in europe for time and its always been a no brainer, and thats with the old m5, e63.. the new one REALLY has to stick out, because the new generation have uped the level 2 notches.. manual gearbox? dual clutch is the norm now for luxury cars too.
@blahblop123 Well I have seen quite a few CTS-Vs with just a tune and a pulley (which adds about as much as the ZR1 motor would stock) and they are significantly quicker than stock so I don't think it would be a laydown. The upcomming CTS/V MAY offer a dual clutch tranny..we don't know yet. I think the manual is cool and it actually presents a good point for all the people who have said automatics suck and don't give you the "control and connection". For all its benefits, a DCG is an automatic.
@2003SCT i personally prefer a manual, but i'm 1 out 15 or so billion... in the US, 80% of the population can't even drive a manual. and also, its a luxury car. nowadays, you dont want the stresses of changing gears when an auto can do it for you... sports cars yes, but not luxury cars.. even sports luxury cars, it can be 'sporty' with a DSG, without the stresses. remember, 90% of people that buy sports, cannot drive.. as demonstrated by some corvette drivers on you tube
@blahblop123 Yeah, I prefer to drive my automatic day to day because of the city I live in and I prefer my other car's manual on the weekends however the way that the market is going from sports to sports luxury to exotics and beyond, it looks as if the manual tranny is essentially going away. All the strong points of manual trannys have essentially been "one upped" by new auto and dsg boxes...all that's left is the "personal connection" argument..manuals are this decade's vinyl records really.
Who do you think would win? I would personally go with Panamera Turbo S in first place, S65 AMG in second, GT-R in third, M5 in fourth and Audi RS6 in fifth.
@49fiori actually all wrong, the gtr would be first, 2. panamera turbo s, 3. audi rs6, 4. bmw m5 and last would be the s 65.
gtr because its a gtr, panamera turbo s is a monster, rs6 all wheel drive and the m5 would be ahead because it is lighter than the s65 the last three places would just be a small difference and i am not sure if the m5 or the rs6 is faster...
@49fiori I'll buy the Nissan GT-R .... Just because you get so much car for much less than the other cars... But the Turbo S is still my choice if money wasn't a problem
@6wasbeer You're saying that you're getting much more car than others? What do you mean by that? Do you get even nearly as much quality, refinement, luxury, room inside, comfort, equipment? No. People who compare GT-R to M5 are just plain wrong.Its like comparing apples to oranges, they're totally different cars, and M5 is just better overall because at the same time its a serious sports car and a serious luxury sedan in which a president could be driven.
According to specs E63 is faster 0 to 60 and 1/4 in this test m5 did get a small jump on the E63 and for Panemera is not turbo and the reason is Turbo S is alot more expensive it is not in the same price range. I believe they took cars that are in the same or close to same price range
i'm surprised the panamera performed as poorly as it did, considering it's powerful twin turbo set up and wet-road-ignoring AWD! No surprise the M5 performed as flawlessly as it did though.
@VQSeries The Panamera S and the Panamera 4S both have a 4.8-litre naturally aspirated V8 engine with direct fuel injection (DFI), VarioCam Plus and a variable intake manifold. It generates 294 kW (400 hp) at 6,500 rpm and has a maximum torque of 500 Nm between 3,500 rpm and 5,000 rpm.... And on top of that its a rear wheel drive car..:)
The XFR is 510hp with about as equal torque, the Porsche is a heavier car. The Porsche should have been replaced with the RS6 and yes they couldve threw in the caddy ctsv since it was midsize sedan race. A must see draaag!!!
@DaKillAhChApIn2k11 the merc started later and its only .5 seconds slower cz this one is not with performance packege, this one is only 525 HP, the PP is 557 HP which is faster than F10 M5, even they didnt bring the PANAMERA turbo, cz BMW would lose
I am a Mercedes boy here now and forever. But AMG is by far my favorite performance division. The E63 preformed well. Hats off to BMW. but if the car had the Performance Package, it might have come close to the BMW if not whoop it's ass completely.
Comment removed
bmw1Motorsport 2 hours ago
I was really hoping that the e63 would eat the rest alive.
ABDsang 3 hours ago
Where is the CTS-V ?? Audi RS6 ?? FFS !!
SubaruWRXtreme 5 hours ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Nice job googling then copy and pasting specs!!! hahaahahahahahaah....lol..GM Leaf springs if as older trucks .. garbage..mega lol.lol hahaha.
bmw1Motorsport 8 hours ago
Put there Panamera turbo and see what happens
farizfariz 15 hours ago
well the m5 has no excuse if they had lost. since they had the longest development time over all the others. Not really exciting considering if you know anything about the cars you probably already knew which would win.
Themayseffect 19 hours ago
///M Power
wurzelsepp678 23 hours ago
bad start for e class
prankshell 1 day ago
the bmw m5 f10 is a common car without a more powerful engine without a turbo is the normal version, Motivi not have to put a Porsche Panamera Turbo's, if an m5 f10 with some modification to make faster oh yes.
yago01bmw 1 day ago
take that one E63 AMG Perfromance Package!
barsagn 2 days ago
THE NEW M5 IS THE BEAST POWER TRAIN
MrExquire 2 days ago
the new e63 , with or without the performance amg package is a monster of a car..
blahblop123 2 days ago
I'd rather have the 2012 C63 AMG with AMG performance pack.
UCompleteCok 2 days ago
Why they don't use panamera turbo s...Trick race..
FN2RRR 2 days ago
0:50
saqib1786 2 days ago
0.50 the Merc starts almost 0.5s late! (Disclaimer: I own a Merc deciding between my future car between M5 and E63 + Performance Package)
saqib1786 2 days ago
Yeah the Merc starts way later. Also is the Merc Performance Package????
saqib1786 2 days ago
BMW M5 is not faster than E63 AMG. It's not slower but it's not faster either. If you look at the start the Merc's driver is sleeping amd the bmw driver is going before everybody else. this is a video made only to show a lie - that the bmw M5 is finally better than the AMG but it is a cheat. just because the driver of the AMG is taking off after the M5 driver that doesn't mean thah the car is slower
vpkeremedchiev 2 days ago
@vpkeremedchiev well, in fact the M5 is a bit faster - but only some 0.x seconds, so, yeah, well...
you know, what i want to say, right? :D
wurzelsepp678 23 hours ago
Немецкие машины самые лучшие машины в мире !
700judo 2 days ago
M-POWER
jelibon4o 2 days ago
wait for Jaguar XFR-S suckers and u will see a class, soon ^^ those German cars are fucked up so hard ! they need some rest now.
iliabashel 3 days ago
@iliabashel
and for those who can´t wait, they will sure take a german into their garage.
clarifaco 3 days ago
I know this cannot be the 2012 MB E63 AMG!
tmat04 3 days ago
@tmat04 lol why? too hard to admit it lost to bmw?
Mazotheman 3 days ago
good race but a bir unfair to not use the top of the range panamera.
cardude1992 3 days ago
turbo s could realy own them all
GoogleBozz 3 days ago
BMW the ultimate driving machine!!!!!!
TheMickel20101 3 days ago
did anyone see that at the start of the race the panamera was in the right part of the pack and about mid way it was next to the jaguar? :|
Al3xUuURDV 3 days ago
M5 F10 a demon to take account!!!
bmw1Motorsport 3 days ago 7
bmw and mercedes ofcourse!
2207paris 4 days ago
Охренеть я думал мерин 1 потом панамера ахаха бмв - рулит))))
Enot07411 4 days ago
where is the CTS-V?
bolofton 4 days ago
@bolofton CTS-V is not a premium car, it doesn't deserve to be put next to the cars in this video. Its fast and good as a sports car, but unlike any of cars in this video, that performance comes at a price....lack of luxury, lack of refinement, lack of comfort, lack of space inside, small boot, horrible interior quality in comparison, filled with cheap materials and parts taken from much cheaper GM cars, etc...its just not a car that does everything well.
derbigpr500 3 days ago
@derbigpr500 No no no you are wrong. CTS-V IS a premium car....in america. =D
Mazotheman 3 days ago
@derbigpr500 Yeah, the performance and handling/braking capabilities of the CTS-V are world class and are on par with (or in some cases exceed these cars here)...however the cabin shows where the cost savings are. Then again, the price difference is about $30,000 USD less on average between the V and these other cars. The average maintenance costs will be substantially less with the V as well. Different car for a different segment...even IF the performance, handling, and braking are so similar.
2003SCT 3 days ago
@2003SCT The price difference is only like that in the U.S. In Europe and elsewhere, the CTS-V can cost as much or more than these cars. The same goes for maintenance.
As to performance, the CTS-V was great against the previous m5, but I don't think it would hold up against the F10.
MewCat100 2 days ago
@MewCat100 I don't know why the price difference would soar SO extremely. Do you know why it would? I mean the V is made for the U.S. market essentially to compete with these cars BUT on a discounted level. V starts at $64K USD where the M5 starts at $92K-ish. The E60 M5 was outrun and outhandled by the "then new" 09 CTS-V in a number of tests (3.9 0-60, 118 mph trap speed, 191 mph top speed) and I would assume the M5 might have a TINY advantage now..but nothing more than 1/10 of a sec. or so.
2003SCT 2 days ago
@2003SCT the new m5 does the quater mile in 12s, cts-v does it in 12.6 ..the old m5 did it in 13s.. there is a huge leap in terms of everything from the old m5 and the new and i've seen the review between the old m5 and the cts-v and it didn't exactly put the m5 to shame.. it was marginally better performance wise... this new one is out of its class and it costs £72k .. ctsv costs £64k .. ctsv wont be getting any fans from europe, and will probably lost some in the US too maybe
blahblop123 2 days ago
@blahblop123 Well in the handling department, the old M5 was shown up by the significantly more advanced MR suspension setup and 6 pot Brembos on the V but yes the interior and the nameplate are certainly worth the money for those in the market. (Again, here the difference is a lot of money) The new M5 should prove to be very impressive..then again it SHOULD be impressive at the price AND considering it is the PEAK of what BMW can produce.
2003SCT 2 days ago
@2003SCT According to unofficial records, the m5 is 4 seconds faster around the Nurburgring than the CTS-V, which is huge. The price difference has to do with what country you are in, where the car is manufactured, where the parts come from, etc. I agree that the 2009 CTS-V beat the 2009 m5, but the m5 design and engine were 4 years old at that point, so Caddy had a 4 year head start. The new m5 and CTS-V are a better comparo as there is only a 2 year gap, though that is still a lot.
MewCat100 1 day ago
@MewCat100 Sure I will accept that the brand new 2012 M5 is a solid 4 seconds faster than the 'unchanged from 2009' CTS-V. And I will ALSO accept that the 2009 CTS-V was a massive 14 seconds faster than the 2005-2010 E60 BMW M5. Caddy did have a 4 year head start just as the 2012 M5 has an almost 4 year head start on the 09' CTS-V. And the other poster says that the V costs 65K+ GBP which is crazy because in the U.S. we pay the equivalent of 39-41K GBP brand new at a dealer.
2003SCT 1 day ago
@2003SCT Did you have a point or where you just trying to prove that you know nothing about cars?
MewCat100 1 day ago
@MewCat100 My last post had as much of a point as your previous post did...in fact they are quite similar albeit with different undertones. I have a substantial background IN and knowledge OF cars. I know why car pricing is different from country to country but the U.S. does not tack on substantial tariffs like other countries do on imported cars and I still find it crazy that because of those tariffs , prices swing so wildly. Or did you not like my earlier post due to all the truth in it?
2003SCT 1 day ago
@2003SCT So your point that GM created an inexpensive car using $40 billion in taxpayer bailouts was intended to show what? GM cannot actually produce a decent car without massive cash influxes and bankruptcy filings. BMW managed to not only create the market segment for sport-luxury sedans, but make a huge profit while doing it. Your point is completely moot. I could create an m5 killer in my basement if I had $40 billion dollars to burn.
MewCat100 1 day ago
@MewCat100 I actually am more well versed in automotive history than in pricing per se. You will probably never drive anything near to the V nor the M5 we speak about. I was merely stating performance facts and that the V is a solid performer albeit 4 years old now and I guess you couldn't deal with reality so you swap over to bailout talk...its like debating a creationist..."lets swap topics because I can't deal with facts"...lol. Its like me bringing up Nazi's in a Mercedes discussion. lol
2003SCT 1 day ago
@2003SCT Dude, I think you might have a screw loose. Your arguments are totally missing the point. Let me break it down:
1. Yes, the CTS-V performed and does perform well.
2. Yes, the M5 F10 is better
3. Yes, the M5 costs more
4. Gains in lap times will dwindle as performance continues to increase. 4 seconds now is just as huge as 14 was 4 years ago.
5. GM, BMW, Mercedes, and VW were all involved with the Nazis, so you won't win any points there.
MewCat100 1 day ago
6. The bailout is relevant. GM needed $40 billion, 4 years, and two attempts to beat BMW. BMW required no bailout, only one attempt, and less time (3 years) to beat Caddy.
7. Automotive history is also not the same as understanding cars.
8. Whether I drive a CTS-V or M5 or neither does not affect my ability to read numbers and assess performance of the two cars.
MewCat100 1 day ago
@MewCat100 And to bring your OWN point back to you, the fact that GM received government money doesn't affect the product at hand nor the lap times it runs. Who cares that the Japanese government paid for a majority of the R&D of the Prius? Does THAT affect being able to do an objective review of the product? Does a review of an Ipod require that you remember how $150M from Microsoft kept Apple from going out of business in the late 1990s?
2003SCT 22 hours ago
@MewCat100 Points 1-4 are correct and Points 7-8 are correct so at least we agree on the majority of those which was clear before to anyone reading this. My point with the Nazi thing is because I have heard people use that...and its irrelevant. GM needed $40 billion dollars mostly to make up for the fact that that the union was sucking them dry and that they had gone from worlds largest car company to worlds largest health care provider.
2003SCT 23 hours ago
@2003SCT Seems that you are claiming you know a lot about car prices, which is not the same as knowing a lot about cars. My apologies if I misread what you had written. At any rate, the CTS-V is a poser car. It is less expensive for a reason.
MewCat100 1 day ago
@2003SCT the E60 m5 nurburgring times were done by Horst Van Saurma.. who seems to lap everything ALOT slower than anyone else.. take the zr1 for example.. the 2009 zr1 by Horst was done in 7:38 .. same car, but with GM test driver, 7:26.. same with the nissan GTR, porsche's every car basically.. i'm not saying every lap he does is 12 seconds slower.. its just the the full potential of the e60 on the nurburgring hasn't been witnessed yet..
blahblop123 1 day ago
@blahblop123 Yeah, and I actually don't hold 'Ring times in high regard anyway due to there not being an actual sanctioning body which would regulate cars, tires and manufacturers claims. If I would use a time it would merely be in response to somebody using that time as something more it actually is. When regulated and sanctioned, the 'Ring times would be an excellent metric for all sport-cars to be judged by due to the track being so all-encompassing for a car's strengths and weaknesses.
2003SCT 1 day ago
@2003SCT well, GM are doing well using nurburgring numbers to get sales.. "fastest 4 door saloon around the ring" they said.. the panamera turbo is atm, but you dont see them mentioning it...every 2 seconds.. they did the same with the zr1/z06.. they even put on pilot sport cups (grippiest road legal tyres) to get a really fast time, to mention in every sale.. i agree with you here though, i only take nurburgring times when someone else brings them up.. in reality, they mean fuck all..
blahblop123 1 day ago
@blahblop123 Yes, GM has been using 'Ring times not as much to get sales (though that is the end goal) but it has been part of the last 10 years of resurrecting a brand that was nearly dead (as were many of its customer base) and for people to take their new direction seriously. The Z06 model was created for younger people to consider the Corvette...because prior to 2001, a younger demographic didn't.
2003SCT 1 day ago
@2003SCT in the z06's case, they were attracted to how fast it goes around ring.. but you can't attract them to it by putting michelin pilot sport cup tyres.. they are, financially, a flop because they wear out REALLY quick, are VERY expensive, dont give any grip in the wet, are noisy, uncomfortable.. and considering they will be used on the road 90% of the time, are complete liability 90% of the time.., if you take them off, you dont have 7:22 car.. thats false expectation in my eyes..
blahblop123 1 day ago
@blahblop123 Actually the high test tyres you speak of are available on the Z06 but most do not come with those..its part of a $7,500 package that you can select that has those special tyres, carbon brakes and enhanced cooling...essentially a "Track Pack". I don't think they are "cheating" anymore than the optional Track Pack on a Lotus Exige S is cheating because it comes with DOT legal slicks with a wear rating of 60. In fact, I think its awesome on both accounts!
2003SCT 1 day ago
@2003SCT the corvette tyres are also DOT legal slicks with the same wear rating of 60.. its part of the 7500 package which goes up to 15k because it requires the carbon pack and magnet dampers.. its cheating when use it solely to boost sales (or to improve public image).. in fact i respected the vette before GM did that.. you can imagine how someone would buy a vette with z07 pack, enjoy it and be amazed by how quick it is, till the tyres wear and the bill for new ones come in
blahblop123 1 day ago
@2003SCT GM Leaf springs on the Corvette. Bmw M5 Integral V aluminum shaft and multi-link specific elastokinematics M. Suspension of three-dimensional effect, with compensation to start and stop sinking and lots of things is the price difference.
bmw1Motorsport 16 hours ago
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2003SCT 16 hours ago
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bmw1Motorsport 8 hours ago
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bmw1Motorsport 8 hours ago
@2003SCT also copy and paste from google that the body of the Zr1 cardboard seems true, fucking plastic.lol,lol...
bmw1Motorsport 8 hours ago
@bmw1Motorsport Yes, the body of the ZR1 is primarily a composite plastic and the rest is carbon fiber. Cardboard?...not so much. :)
2003SCT 7 hours ago
@2003SCT My english is very bad so I use the google translator, copy and paste"cardboard is a way to express themselves, and know very well that has roof and other parts in carbon fiber, other than the" cardboard "haha, you speak very typical of a person who reads a lot and talk on the forums, the last time driving a Corvette, I saw that it was uncontrollable,how many cars have you tried? and know what is effective and what not, try some Bmw M and then give us your opinion...
bmw1Motorsport 3 hours ago
@bmw1Motorsport Thanks...I used to own an E36 M3 (in the old Estoril Blue) by the way.
2003SCT 2 hours ago
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bmw1Motorsport 2 hours ago
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bmw1Motorsport 2 hours ago
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bmw1Motorsport 2 hours ago
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2003SCT 16 hours ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@bmw1Motorsport Nice job googling then copy and pasting specs...lol. I know the word elastokinematics probably gets you excited because its sounds super technical and all however they are just referring to the stiffer (and specific) bushing materials used in the suspension. If you want a much more technologically advanced suspension technology than the M5's control arm/multilink setup, check out the CTS-Vs Double SLA and "Electric Magnetorheological Damper" layout. :)
2003SCT 16 hours ago
@blahblop123 The Ring times are marketing..plain and simple. Its much the same as Lexus doing nearly 20 years of the most pretentious commercials imaginable to prove to the public that if you buy one you are smarter than everyone else (crash test "genius", the voice, clever and continual specific adjective usage, etc). I suspect the high number of Vette crashes are due to high hp, twitchy nature, inexperienced drivers AND that GM sells a TON of them...between 20K and 35K units PER YEAR.
2003SCT 1 day ago
@2003SCT ring times show you how fast a car is given a certain driver, conditions etc.. but you can't put DOT slicks on all purpose sports car and claim that time.the viper ACR uses the same tyres, because its a trackday car, it was never supposed to be a comfy grand tourer, only to cut lap times. same with the gt2 RS.the GTR,LFA and alot of other supercars that did it with cheaper, all purpose road tyres, and thats the benchmark for those cars. z06 is yet to go aroud without the slicks
blahblop123 1 day ago
@blahblop123 That is absolutely incorrect. This new tyre (developed in connection with Team Corvette) is just that...a BRAND NEW tyre for the car. They RAN the C6 Z06 back in like 2005/2006 and it clocked a 7:42.99..you can look it up and see the other supercars it hangs with at that time level. Again, this was almost 6 years ago now...not news in the car world...I wanna say those were even the old all seasons..not gen 2 and certainly not gen 3 tyres.
2003SCT 1 day ago
@2003SCT michelin pilot sport cup zero pressure.. vs the 2006 one which were all season, and look at the difference... it doesn't matter who developed the tyres, they wear out quick, are expensive, rough, loud and dont work in anything but warm dry tarmac.
blahblop123 1 day ago
@blahblop123 I don't think the point of a Z06 is supposed to be that its a comfy grand tourer...I know you have never ridden in one but they ride pretty stiffly. A stiff riding car, with track suspension, giant carbon brakes, lightweight wheels, titanium engine parts, 7,000+ rpm redline, complete aluminum frame with carbon fiber and composite fenders, a 1,400 kg curb weight....and then YOU think its CHEATING when they add PS2 cup tyres?
2003SCT 1 day ago
@2003SCT well, why is it offered with heated seats ? (adds weight) why doesn't it have a roll cage? (increase chassis rigidity) why is it offered with magnet dampers with a "tour" setting ? (maybe because it was built to cope with everyday driving, how un-trackday like) why no spoiler, or canards ? and theres a difference between PS2 tyres, and Pilot sport cup ZERO PRESSURE tyres
blahblop123 1 day ago
@blahblop123 The Z06 is a car which is very popular out here in California for people to take to and from the track..you can drive it there and drive it home. The Z07 package adds that extra bit of track day-ness for those who are more serious about it...simple as that. Its also a model that shows the commitment of Corvette to its deeply woven racing history and heritage. The Corvette has a huge client base who buy them to race on the weekends..why is that SO hard for you to fucking understand?
2003SCT 1 day ago
@blahblop123 Thats great that the $450K LFA, the $250K GT2 RS, the newly revamped AWD $100K GTR and a Viper ACR only slightly beat a "track version" of a car which is based on a 6 year old sports car that starts at $49,600. Will you admit that the "Track Pack" for the AMG C63 Black Series is unfair because it comes with Dunlop R Compounds? OF COURSE you won't because your bias is ONLY against the Corvette. Stop compartmentalizing your automotive preferences so profoundly...it shows.
2003SCT 1 day ago
@2003SCT starts at 49k ? no it doesn't.. its starts at 90k, get your facts right, the standard and the 7:22 z06 vette's are miles apart, one is a hard top, the other is a targa top and is as wobbley as a wet lettuce.. and you just proved my point.. 'only slightly beat' and '49k' will stick and someone stupid enough will be impressed by the corvette and buy a 49k vette only to realise its SHIT..
blahblop123 1 day ago
@blahblop123 I was referring to the fact that the $90K Z06 is based on a $50K car....the $450K Nurburgring Edition LFA is based on a $375K car so you are right...they are perfect to be comparing. LOL. A $49K base Vette gets you: 430 hp, 186 mph, 0-60 in 4.3 sec., 25 mpg hwy, 60-0 braking in 117 ft. and a MASSIVE aftermarket of cheap go fast add ons. So if the LFA got better tires would it be unfair? To you...probably not. To you, Corvette is the only sports car not allowed to have them.
2003SCT 1 day ago
@2003SCT what part of, if its not a trackday and has slicks it IS unfair dont you understand ??.. the fact is, the LFA doesn't have slicks on it.. there's no if's or but's it JUST doesn't...FACT... WHEN it does, THEN bring that arguement up.. the vette is the ONLY non track car that does it.. and by track day car, i mean weekend car.. dont say you dont see z06 potting around during the weekdays to do the local grocery shop.. because it CAN..
blahblop123 1 day ago
@blahblop123 Its an honest question..would the LFA getting a slicker tire like the Z07 package make the car a cheater? THE Z07 PACKAGE Z06 IS MADE FOR THE WEEKEND RACER NOT THE DAILY DRIVER. GM DOES NOT RECOMMEND THIS VEHICLE PACKAGE FOR DAILY USE..IT IS A CLUB SPORT PACKAGE INTENDED FOR DRIVERS TO GET THE MOST OUT OF THEIR Z06 UNDER CONTROLLED RACING CONDITIONS. I SEE Z06s DRIVING AROUND ALL THE TIME BUT I DON'T SEE Z07 PACKAGE CARS PROBABLY BECAUSE THEY HAVE A TRACK ORIENTED PACKAGE ON THEM.
2003SCT 22 hours ago
@2003SCT honest answer, to your honest question .. YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSs for the billionth time !!!
blahblop123 7 hours ago
@blahblop123 Well you never answered it before...
2003SCT 6 hours ago
@2003SCT i've been saying, if its a NOT a trackday car.. then it is cheating !.. the LFA is evidently NOT
blahblop123 6 hours ago
@2003SCT well, the c63 black series is trackday car so it isn't unfair.. if the standard c63 had R compounds then yes it IS unfair... if maybach came with R compound and started claiming its the fastest megaluxury car around the ring, then that is OBVIOUSLY UNFAIR... radical is a trackday car so it can darn well wear whatever the fuck it likes as long as they're road legal.. no ones gunna tour europe in one of those..
blahblop123 1 day ago
@blahblop123 And I think you WILL have to agree and say that the C63 Black Series Track IS cheating if the Z07package is,at least the front and rear brake cooling vents on the Z06 are plumbed and functional..the Black Edition's are just for looks..as are most of the aero bits that are there to give a agressive look (which I like). C63 Black DOES have some functional aero enhancement but so does the Z. So in your mind, just some cannards would make the Z06 Z07 a track car but without..its not?lol
2003SCT 21 hours ago
@2003SCT the black series wouldn't be cheating because its a track day cars already ! aero bits ? theres more to track driving than aero bits, put a roll cage in there, take out the heated seats, put racing buckets it... take out ALL the unnecessary weight..etc THAT is a trackday car.. merc even say the black series merc is only good for one type of road journey "from the track to your garage" and vice versa.what says 'trackday' more than that? do GM say anything along them lines ?NOO
blahblop123 6 hours ago
@blahblop123 O.K. I will leave it at this and then I really will have to bow out. If you classify the Black Series AS a Track Day car and the Z07 Z06 as NOT, what are these massive differences that make one a track day car and one not...I seriously can't tell OTHER than the seats. I don't count the marketing speak either because 'tag lines' does not a racecar make. What are the actual physical differences that make a Z07 package Z06 not a track day car and the Black Series a total track day car?
2003SCT 6 hours ago
@2003SCT its about the mechanical side of it, and the z06 does very little to bias it towards being a trackday.. little to no comprimise is made to make its better on the track .. why would you need heated seats on the track ? sat nav ? a 'tour' setting.. track cars are supposed to be as close to being racing cars without being road illegal.. i'd like to see the C6.R with heated seats, no roll cage, heavy magnet dampers with a' tour' setting and no spoilers and see if it wins anything
blahblop123 3 hours ago
@blahblop123 Completely agree with you, BMW for example has the M3 GTS and Porsche 911 GT3 RS 4.0 and GT2 RS ........ that reflects more next has an authentic race car.
bmw1Motorsport 2 hours ago
@blahblop123 I agree that a "true" track day car would be stripped of all that stuff too...but that makes the Black Series not a true track car because that thing is stripped of almost nothing. It keeps nearly all the creature comforts and makes almost no compromises for daily driving...its aesthetics and marketing are as significant as anything mechanical which is fine cause I totally dig it and LOVE the look.
2003SCT 2 hours ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@blahblop123 I agree that a "true" track day car would be stripped of all that stuff too...but that makes the Black Series not a true track car because that thing is stripped of almost nothing. It keeps nearly all the creature comforts and makes almost no compromises for daily driving...its aesthetics and marketing are as significant as anything mechanical which is fine cause I totally dig it and LOVE the look.
2003SCT 2 hours ago
@blahblop123 Again, I think you answered your own point about track cars supposing to be close to race cars without being road illegal and the Black Series isn't if the Z07 isn't. The Black Series is more LUXURIOUS than most cars on the road..probably even rides better than most. Z06 uses lightweight items (magnesium cradle and carbon fiber panels and composite and aluminum frame) to save weight rather than pull things out of the car.
2003SCT 2 hours ago
@2003SCT this video is powerful sedans European cars, get out to comment on a video of the GM group, is bored in Antarctica? lol.
bmw1Motorsport 1 hour ago
@bmw1Motorsport I don't know where your other comment went but no, mine was the 3.2L engine..it was the 1996 M3 that we got in the U.S. and even with the increase in displacement, it was still the same hp rating 240 hp actually:( . I am leaving this thread though so have a great day.
2003SCT 1 hour ago
@blahblop123 And as we have seen with cars in the past (Mustang Cobra R and Cayman R come to mind) pulling out air conditioning and door handles and power locks and a radio actually doesn't save you much weight..on a car that weighs 3,000 lbs. Maybe 40 lbs if you take it ALL out. Its like the kid who takes the radio out of his Civic Si...helps him FEEL like a "racer". Any faster? Hardly .001 seconds which matters to F1 teams and WRC, not an overweight car with leather, airbags and carpeting.
2003SCT 1 hour ago
@blahblop123 But anyway, it was nice chatting with you. I assume we agree on more things than we disagree about. I think we know what each other means..its just on the details I guess. Have a great day...signing off from surprisingly chilly Southern California.
2003SCT 1 hour ago
@derbigpr500 FINALLY someone the looks at the reality of it and not wank over its hp and nurburgring numbers.. the car is cheap for a reason.. and it has lots of chrome on it errrh, and its HIDEOUS as sin.. and it costs £64k.. the m5 is £72k.. its does 1/4 in 12.6, the m5 does it in 12 dead.. that is a battery in 1/4 terms, and its faster around the track, and it IS a quality premium product, better mpg, better emmisions etc for 8k more.. CTSV is an appauling, overated rubbish..
blahblop123 2 days ago
@blahblop123 Yeah and you shouldn't compare the 'BRAND NEW' M5 with a less expensive 5 year old car/4 year old with V-Package car which hasn't gotten any updates as such. The new CTS and V are still about a year out and are surely going to make performance numbers and interiors better. And I found it funny that you are sick of hearing 'Ring numbers yet continue to talk about 1/4 and 0-60 times..So you like SOME numbers. I just wanna see handling track numbers of this "now old" CTS-V vs. 2012 M5!
2003SCT 2 days ago
@2003SCT numbers are good, they tell you about performance.. i'm fed of people ONLY looking at performance numbers.. the seats could be made out of poo and they'll still wank over performance numbers.. maybe if they looked carefully at the review they were reading, they'd see pictures and see its about a car.. 4 doors, 5 seats, steering wheel, a body made out of metal, 4 wheels
blahblop123 2 days ago
@2003SCT if the new ctsv comes out within a year and its faster then fair play, but i highly doubt that.. unless they stick a dual clutch system in there and lighten it, i can't really see that happening. but then again.. its a 4 door saloon.. it could be considered better if it was quieter, more comfy, better mpg, while still being quick (difficult with pushrods, so ditch it).. and looking good ofcourse (ditch the chrome would help)
blahblop123 2 days ago
@blahblop123 Yeah, they could just do the other version of the motor if they wanted to...take the ZR1 forged/titanium motor and make 635 stock or whatever its rated at. The new car will be quieter but it won't be lighter as it will be getting a little bigger so as to compete (platform size wise) with the E class and 5 series so that the new ATS can compete with C class and 3 series better. The new ATS and V variant is really gonna be the dynamic and standout kid many have been waiting for.
2003SCT 2 days ago
@2003SCT even with the zr1 engine, its gunna stuggle.. its gunna struggle against the cleaner, modern, effiecient, well garnished, new generation turbocharged european rivals. thats in terms of performance and value for money.. its been in sale in europe for time and its always been a no brainer, and thats with the old m5, e63.. the new one REALLY has to stick out, because the new generation have uped the level 2 notches.. manual gearbox? dual clutch is the norm now for luxury cars too.
blahblop123 2 days ago
@blahblop123 Well I have seen quite a few CTS-Vs with just a tune and a pulley (which adds about as much as the ZR1 motor would stock) and they are significantly quicker than stock so I don't think it would be a laydown. The upcomming CTS/V MAY offer a dual clutch tranny..we don't know yet. I think the manual is cool and it actually presents a good point for all the people who have said automatics suck and don't give you the "control and connection". For all its benefits, a DCG is an automatic.
2003SCT 1 day ago
@2003SCT i personally prefer a manual, but i'm 1 out 15 or so billion... in the US, 80% of the population can't even drive a manual. and also, its a luxury car. nowadays, you dont want the stresses of changing gears when an auto can do it for you... sports cars yes, but not luxury cars.. even sports luxury cars, it can be 'sporty' with a DSG, without the stresses. remember, 90% of people that buy sports, cannot drive.. as demonstrated by some corvette drivers on you tube
blahblop123 1 day ago
@blahblop123 Yeah, I prefer to drive my automatic day to day because of the city I live in and I prefer my other car's manual on the weekends however the way that the market is going from sports to sports luxury to exotics and beyond, it looks as if the manual tranny is essentially going away. All the strong points of manual trannys have essentially been "one upped" by new auto and dsg boxes...all that's left is the "personal connection" argument..manuals are this decade's vinyl records really.
2003SCT 1 day ago
@bolofton that over bloated pushrod banger is likely in a swap where its interior parts are made
KongKit 3 days ago
Great 1000 meter race would be:
Nissan GT-R (2012 model with 530hp)
Porsche Panamera Turbo S
Audi RS6 (2010 limousine model)
BMW M5 (F10 of course)
Mercedes-Benz S65 AMG (with 630hp)
Who do you think would win? I would personally go with Panamera Turbo S in first place, S65 AMG in second, GT-R in third, M5 in fourth and Audi RS6 in fifth.
49fiori 5 days ago
@49fiori actually all wrong, the gtr would be first, 2. panamera turbo s, 3. audi rs6, 4. bmw m5 and last would be the s 65.
gtr because its a gtr, panamera turbo s is a monster, rs6 all wheel drive and the m5 would be ahead because it is lighter than the s65 the last three places would just be a small difference and i am not sure if the m5 or the rs6 is faster...
baujahr90er 5 days ago
@49fiori off the line the GTR would kill it but then with its lack of hp i think your right but i like to see that race go down
DuBBedEmpire 5 days ago
@49fiori GTR would win in my book. GTR seems to be the ultimate "Supercar" nowadays that's why I'm trading in my ISF for one
Fastest94v6 4 days ago
@49fiori I'll buy the Nissan GT-R .... Just because you get so much car for much less than the other cars... But the Turbo S is still my choice if money wasn't a problem
6wasbeer 3 days ago
@6wasbeer You're saying that you're getting much more car than others? What do you mean by that? Do you get even nearly as much quality, refinement, luxury, room inside, comfort, equipment? No. People who compare GT-R to M5 are just plain wrong.Its like comparing apples to oranges, they're totally different cars, and M5 is just better overall because at the same time its a serious sports car and a serious luxury sedan in which a president could be driven.
derbigpr500 3 days ago
@derbigpr500 well explained, Greetings.
bmw1Motorsport 16 hours ago
why not Audi RS6 --- hahahhaha
49fiori 5 days ago
can someone explain to me this:
M5: 560bhp
Pamamera S: 400bhp ... :S
Thats 160bhp less, am I right? ... Panamera Turbo S would simply kill the F10.
ZIXZU 5 days ago
M bmw, AMG mercedes, R jaguar, Y U NO use Turbo Panamera?? this is bs
zlyable 6 days ago 24
@zlyable excactly, maybe they were considering the price range, but who cares comparisons should be HP related.
bolofton 4 days ago
@zlyable because it costs about 50% as much again.
phish100123 4 days ago
Comment removed
oldirtybastard213 4 days ago
@zlyable Panamera S costs about the same as Mercedes and Bmw,and Turbo around 50k more... For 1 Turbo S you can buy E63 AMG and C 63 AMG :)
Thats why they put Panamera S in the test ;)
XepojCp6uje 3 days ago
@XepojCp6uje nooooo.. so wrong right there
damejakt 3 days ago
Get the Performance Package AMG - And the new E Klasse ist supposed to arrive next year. Then we can redo this drag race.
snapnrool 6 days ago
@snapnrool they did bring the PP AMG, this AMG is slower than M5 by .5 seconds only, JUST IMAGINE the PP AMG what will do
mooazz 5 days ago
Why on earth would you take the best BMW , best Mercedes but only the Panamera S.....The 4th best Panamera money can buy ............
6wasbeer 1 week ago
@6wasbeer they din take the best merc, there is a better E63 AMG with PP
mooazz 6 days ago 2
@mooazz agreed but the PP mecedes is only .1 of a second faster than a E63 (stock)
6wasbeer 3 days ago
@6wasbeer oh my bad man, yeah but BMW cant beat merc is technology sportness design or anthing
mooazz 3 days ago
The M5 F10 kicks ass!!!
bayulaxmana 1 week ago
@bayulaxmana Panamera Turbo S ..Enough said
6wasbeer 1 week ago 6
jaguar xf-r vs mercedes cls63 amg vs bmw m5 f10 vs porsche panamera turbo.
please do the race with theese cars.
sorry for my englis.
focarfa 1 week ago
According to specs E63 is faster 0 to 60 and 1/4 in this test m5 did get a small jump on the E63 and for Panemera is not turbo and the reason is Turbo S is alot more expensive it is not in the same price range. I believe they took cars that are in the same or close to same price range
nawzy202 1 week ago
Why not Panamera Turbo S ?
lacustagingasa 1 week ago
///M
christitanfighter 1 week ago
BMW
gxl34 1 week ago
i'm surprised the panamera performed as poorly as it did, considering it's powerful twin turbo set up and wet-road-ignoring AWD! No surprise the M5 performed as flawlessly as it did though.
VQSeries 1 week ago
@VQSeries The Panamera S and the Panamera 4S both have a 4.8-litre naturally aspirated V8 engine with direct fuel injection (DFI), VarioCam Plus and a variable intake manifold. It generates 294 kW (400 hp) at 6,500 rpm and has a maximum torque of 500 Nm between 3,500 rpm and 5,000 rpm.... And on top of that its a rear wheel drive car..:)
6wasbeer 1 week ago
@6wasbeer I stand corrected! ;-)
VQSeries 3 days ago
aaaaaand id still take the jag and the merk over the m5
charliepioneer 1 week ago
Jaguar looks the best. AMG sounds the best. Nothing else matters.
AliTaylor777 1 week ago
@AliTaylor777 What about who is the fastest?
blane237 1 week ago
The XFR is 510hp with about as equal torque, the Porsche is a heavier car. The Porsche should have been replaced with the RS6 and yes they couldve threw in the caddy ctsv since it was midsize sedan race. A must see draaag!!!
124bigkev 1 week ago 2
The slowest is Porsche .... that made me very disappointed that was slower then a jaguar.
roastpig123 1 week ago
wonder if the M5 have the performance package like E63 to boost the top speed to 190
chuyentinhtoi1721 1 week ago
@chuyentinhtoi1721 this one didnt equiped with PP
mooazz 1 week ago
no RS6?
donvoisko 1 week ago
I knew the M5 would win! But I didn't know the Panamera is slower than the Jag..
alexutzu2115 1 week ago
BMW M power.
DaKillAhChApIn2k11 1 week ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@DaKillAhChApIn2k11 the merc started later and its only .5 seconds slower cz this one is not with performance packege, this one is only 525 HP, the PP is 557 HP which is faster than F10 M5, even they didnt bring the PANAMERA turbo, cz BMW would lose
mooazz 1 week ago
BMW>M-Benz
tupapison 1 week ago
... expected the m5 to win but why don't they take the porsche panamera turbo for this comparison?! nice race though^^
DKN2488GuitarHero 1 week ago
@DKN2488GuitarHero probably because of the price tag. The panamera turbo is 130 grand starting.
chuyentinhtoi1721 1 week ago
fuck my life the bmw m5 is back. Just wait untill the bmw m6 will come out it will propbley smash all the cars.
Mrfantasticel 1 week ago
i never saw him put on the Benz's Race Start
WesleyndRomare 1 week ago
I'd still pick the e63
ionutzuuuu 1 week ago
Plain and simple, the M5 is back!
335ipower11 1 week ago
I dont really care about it but that must be the slowest Panamera I ever watched
mkuroglu 1 week ago
real m5 is bak thats why
stm9421 1 week ago
E60 V10 M5 is faster on top in it does 207mpr the new one 189mpr. The new one looks better but the V10 it's the best engine BMW ever made!!!!!
KavkazecAZERI 1 week ago
M Power 4 LIFE. M5 is the BOSS
MrLuar1 1 week ago
The new M5 is a BEAST!
Nastypsychoboy 1 week ago
What the hell if they used the new panamera turbo s it would've beaten everything
willbur4743 1 week ago
SHUT UP AMG'S IT'S POWERED BY //M !!!!!
tiominose 1 week ago
I am a Mercedes boy here now and forever. But AMG is by far my favorite performance division. The E63 preformed well. Hats off to BMW. but if the car had the Performance Package, it might have come close to the BMW if not whoop it's ass completely.
johnmerritt 1 week ago
im just amazed how no AMG fans on this video lol i wonder why....
mold57 1 week ago