Dr.Justin McCarty talks about Turkish History at UHCL Part 1

[SadieMirsade]

Something we all SHOULD BE studying.

HOW TO transform a decaying American empire,

into a FUNCTIONAL, self-sufficient country,

United States of America.

[ugoization]

Only 1/10 of Ottoman Jannissaries were the type you wrote. But you must think the conditions of the era. Being a Jannissary or collected to be brought to capital of the time's greatest capital on the earth was an opportunity. Most families were happy with this. Ottoman policy only lets max 1 boy be taken. And these were given best education (war or diplomatic) in the capital, İstanbul. You can think as scholars of the time.

[tellyoutrue]

Yes, the reason is blind hatred and racism, perpetuated more by the parents/cultures of these peoples, and their religion, more than historic ill treatment (for Hungarians and Serbs); the Ottomans were an exceptionally tolerant society. The Jannissaries were the only example of slavery, but the parents were not unknown to lobby their kids into this elite corps, a Jannisary had full freedom, and their power grew to the point where the sultan, and not they, was subjected to virtual slavery.

[woodss3]

"Yes, the reason is blind hatred and racism"..perhaps imposing a culture/religion with force has something to do with it or GENOCIDE...The lobby you speak of was an exception not the norm. "Full freedom" (?) not to be Christian, not to marry.....and I don't think they could return back to their non-Ottoman life style after (not 100% sure). Also imposing cultural discrimination into their tax system doesn't seem tolerant. Strange that many Greeks, Slavs, and Muslim Kurds have disdain for Turks

[woodss3]

I guess what I am saying is that I don't buy the unfounded "blind" white Christian hatred against 'Turk campaign' that you're inferring. Seems to me there was lots of intolerance from the Ottomans. The Janissaries were Christians kidnapped (with some minor exceptions), the ex-Spanish Jews, Polish Catholics, Slav and Armenian Orthodox, and Kurdish Muslims were all targeted b/c of their religion or culture at various times by Ottoman Turks. The Ottoman tolerance seems to be lip-service.

[tellyoutrue]

Quite naturally you will side with Ottoman intolerance, because the Christian West is biased, and Ottoman Christians who settled in the West did a superb job of spreading their hatred & making Turks seem like savages. Stop harping on the Jannissaries, ultimately done away with in the 19th cent, while many West nations were into slavery. The true test is that minorities were allowed to retain their language, religion, culture for centuries, a tolerance that ironically led to the Ottomans' demise.

[woodss3]

@tellyoutrue ""were not unknown to lobby their kids into this elite corps"" LOL! Freedom from an Ottoman oppressor? What parent do you know would simply hand-off their kids HAPPILY to an alien culture when cultures were identified by religious markers not nation states? Don't make the exception the rule! Also, the Ottomans accounts spun this positive notion of families being happy to give their kids up....not European history.

[tellyoutrue]

@woodss3 You see, my foolish friend, when you are part of a society (so that it is no longer an "alien culture"), whether you like being a part of that society or not, you cater to the opportunities that are available. The fact is, the Jannisaries were an elite corps, and to the minds of some, it was a way for their sons to make it to the top. The Jannisaries were not slaves as we know them, ultimately growing to actually control the sultan. You are looking at this with modern, prejudiced eyes.

[woodss3]

@tellyoutrue Please don't insult my intelligence and suggest that an exception is a standard. Look up the word "Devsirme" it is conscription, is defined as FORCED upon conquered people. I have read accounts where some parents wanted this for their kids.NOTHING suggests that this was a norm.The Ottmans were considered a scourage to the much of the West/Balkans-even to this day. Listen to yourself. Its like suggesting all blond kids from 1935-1945 in Nazi territory lined up to be Hitler Youth.

[tellyoutrue]

@woodss3 My mistake; I was not aware you had intelligence to insult. Military conscription, as a rule, is forced in all countries. That isn't the point. The point is that hateful people as yourself, who think of the Ottoman Turks as a "scourge," instead of the tolerant empire that they were (granting liberties to their minorities is what ultimately led to their downfall) will do anything to affirm this hateful and racist image solidly established in the Turk-despising West.

[woodss3]

@tellyoutrue Really? I never stated any comment about its downfall. YOU HAVE assumed and stereotyped me. I have given examples: genocide, child kidnapping and brain washing, and tax descrimination based upon religion and culture. These are not marks that any consider tollerant and are clear in history. Also I am confused about your "racist" comment. Ottmans were many races.....so which race is being despised by the West? I'm sick of people who jump to the 'race-card'-its weak.

[woodss3]

@woodss3 cont.. your argument is weak-> You suggest an exception is a rule, your common sense is lacking- mom's and dad's don't line up to give away their children to a foreign occupyier. Think about it, having boys in the family is crucial to the family economic unit- the Janissaries don't contribute back to their families after Ottoman indoctrination. Accounts of rosey tollerance are OTTOMAN accounts not European. Do you think that the Ottmans are going to note how oppressive they are?

[oscargurses]

great to see there's no much ignorance coming from non-turks as well as turks on this board.

to LL who leave hateful comments:

insecurity about yourself breeds racism. not having done anything beneficial or productive in your life leads to nationalism.

learn history. observe it. dont pick sides, you idiots. none of you were there in the turn of the 20th century. if you had been, i doubt any of you would have had the strength to survive it like your ancestors did ( turks and non-turks).

[ghiraykhan]

fantastic teacher LONG LIVE TURKEY.

[oscargurses]

great orator, fantastic teacher, in 20 minutes i have learned more about Turkish history then i have in 18 years of american academics, 5 years of turkish education and 32 years as a turkish-american. I have been skeptical of turkish history taught by turks as well as by westerners, this was refreshingly neutral and descriptive. Fantastic work!