Mormons, Civil Rights & Prop 8

[drinkswithnedkelly]

"The attitude of the Church with reference to Negroes remains as it has always stood. It is not a matter of the declaration of a policy but of direct commandment from the Lord, on which is founded the doctrine of the Church from the days of its organization, to the effect that Negroes may become members of the Church but that they are not entitled to the priesthood at the present time." (The First Presidency on the Negro Question, 17 Aug. 1949)

[nielse2]

wow, where did they get that music, it was like cheep 80;s horror film. Anyway democracy is a great thing isn't it. So is capitalism.and If the Mormons want to use their money to stop something they dont like, the more power to them. Lobbyist groups in Washington do it everyday

[djclyde2007]

Yeah Mormons really oppose civil rights read your history.

Before Mormons could become a state they had to stop letting women and blacks vote in the state. Yeah thats real prejudice.

I like how the "Documentary" is an anti-Mormon video

[littleearl100]

Stupid video. Do your research.  I have and gays are idiots!!!

[amulonhi]

mormonism is bogus!

[Coacoabeanbean]

Grow up, all of you. Stop blaming Mormons for being people who "take away other's rights". everyone is going about this all wrong. We are simply two sides who believe in two different things. Mormons aren't prejudice, they're just standing up for what they believe in. You're all fighting like teenagers, assuming you know exactly what the other side is thinking. try to understand the other point of view before you tear them down! that's to both Mormons AND gays. Stop fighting like teenagers.

[J0hn3577]

WRONG WRONG WRONG! We are NOT just two sides who believe in two different things. This is not like, let's have a flat tax versus a tiered tax, this is not like let's have this regulation in the economy or that regulation. The MORMON belief is nothing more than a belief that we gays are evil and don't deserve rights. Yes, they are standing up for what they believe, but that doesn't mean they're not prejudiced; THEIR BELIEFS ARE PREJUDICED! And intolerance is the one thing that can't be tolerated.

[J0hn3577]

It makes me sick when I hear Mormons or people like Rick Warren stand up and talk about civility in the conversation. THEIR RIGHTS AREN'T THE ONES AT STAKE! HOW DARE THEY TELL ME TO BE CIVIL WHEN THEY TAKE AWAY MY RIGHTS!? The anti-gay Mormons and all other anti-gay, anti-civil rights religious people can drop dead, until they get their damned act together.

[syxbysyx]

They are truly evil...only allowed black into the church when thier tax exemption was threatened...they still think blacks are sub-human but they've learned to play the game and present a pretty picture. Avoid them.

[Nobusan21]

Please, this video is a joke....

[MarksmanNr1]

So much hate and bigotry and vulgar language!! You guys really show your true colours. And you talk about tolerance... Gays dont believe in democracy, all you have done lately against "the easy target" mormons just proves that. Why dont you go against the blacks and latinos in California who overwhelmingly voted for prop8? Mormons are just 2% of population and you are going against them!!! WHY dont you attack the evangelicals and catholics too?

[syxbysyx]

MarsmanNR1....THESE MORMONS CAN DISH IT OUT BUT THEY CAN'T TAKE IT

[joshisimo]

The Mormons are the ones who bankrolled all the fear-mongering. By their fruits ye shall know them!

[syxbysyx]

Cult...as in using your religious beliefs to oppress and to deny hardworking fellow citizens thier rights. It used to be Blacks they hated...now it's gays...i'm sure if they look hard enought into thier fake bilble...they's come up with a reason to hate YOU!

[cmcguiga]

Do you speak english or what? I can't understand your hateful concepts. Get over it you lost!!!!

[cmcguiga]

Well by this definition gays are part of a cult because by their term "OUT" their not part of the "accepted" concept of marriage democratically. EH. LOL

[Risefotruth]

Why does everyone bash the fucking mormons.. They try to teach good this isn't even accurate and THE CATHOLICS POURED ALOT OF MONEY INTO PROP 8

[MACCAPONE60]

On this final day in the battle to restore traditional marriage, I cannot think of a more inspiring message than that issued early this morning by our Campaign Manager Frank Schubert.

I urge you, if you havent already, to read it and to Vote Yes on Prop 8!

Friends,

It all comes down to today.

Weve worked every day for months. Weve knocked on millions of front doors. Weve made tens of millions of telephone calls.

[Maggs707]

The LDS contributed 47% of the Yes on Prop 8 funds but are only 2% of the population. They are now under investigation for California elections officials for under-reporting non-cash contributions like a web-site, commercials, phone banking, etc.

The other issue under investigation is how they used pressure on church membership to make these contributions in the first place.

[cmcguiga]

Get over it Maggs. You lost and you can't stand it. Run to the corner and hold your breath because you didn't get your own way and leave it be cry baby. HAHAHA

[NavajoJoe66]

Don't worry, the Supreme Court will likely overturn Prop 8 next year. It has already accepted 3 lawsuits challenging the validity of Prop 8.

So don't be too quick to say "Haha you lost".

[cmcguiga]

Until then....Love YA! gim me a hug :-)

[clasinia]

Ridiculous bunch of lies. I especially love the whole "gloom and doom" background music.

[Maggs707]

The music is a little melodramatic, but the message is clear. The LDS has a long history of using its members' combined wealth to suppress minorities, first against blacks, then women, now gays. They and 2 other churches are under investigation for improperly influencing a political campaign. They tightened up the tax-exempt rules recently, so these guys may think they didn't do anything wrong. They're in for a BIG surprise.

The LDS is considered a cult by most Christian churches.

[cmcguiga]

Did you know there are EIGHT different meanings of the word CULT. Which one are you alluding to here? Please be more specific!

[Maggs707]

Cult as in outside the accepted concepts - The Book of Mormon in particular and by humanizing Jesus.

[cmcguiga]

Well by this definition gays are part of a cult because by their term "OUT" their not part of the "accepted" concept of marriage democratically. EH. LOL

[changenow777]

This is the biggest bunch of lies!!!! How anyone could spew such lies about a church that teaches nothing but love, goodwill, charity and strong families if beyond belief. Boy what will you do without the Mormons the next time a huge disaster like Katrina hits? This is so wrong

[minusrhs]

Once again, how is donating the most money translate into "the most responsible?"

So 2% of CA is Mormon and they donated nearly 50% of the funds for Prop 8...isn't that a sign that it's a big issue to them? But still, how is donating money to ANY cause translate into most responsible?

Why not protest the other HUNDREDS of other churches whose members donated money?

[woody5551]

What's the deal with the Mormons wearing the white silk magical undergarment. What's up with the magical stuff. Do they keep a spare garment when they get dirty. Who gets to clean them? Is there a special dry cleaning service at their temple?

[britabee86]

We wear them like any other underwear, change them every day, wash them in the laundry machines in our homes or laundy mats. And they are not magic, they are a symbol of our commitment to God.

[kaalakane]

Oh ye of little faith.........if there was an artifact there, the world would be LDS. Thats not how things work, you need to develop faith. You know that.

[kaalakane]

Very bad video full of lies...

And to think, some people might even believe these lies.

Also you make it sound like its a crime to donate money to a cause...

Please don't try to take away my right to vote too.

[RevKale]

Find me an artifact from the hill cumorah ok? Wait...there is nothing there.

[joshisimo]

Drink your Mormon kool-aid if you want. Just don't make me drink it!

[channelhismojo]

@kaalakane What lies? YOU are lying every time you pretend your cult is all sweetness and light. Do some research into the Mormon cult before you state what is shown here are lies. Utah - highest male youth suicide rate in the US. Highest use of anti depressants. Your cult makes people miserable. That's a fact.

[serranoventures]

@channelhismojo It's about time someone commented on my Yes on 8 vote, whats it been, a year. Even Ellen and Portia have split. But I guess this is really about trashing my church, too bad people have to stoop so low. Instead of trashing my church, go and enjoy the church you belong to and have a nice life.

[channelhismojo]

@serranoventures I don't go to church. I'm not an imbecile that can't face life without silly myths and lies.

Mormons should stay out of politics OR PAY TAX!

[zubDabber]

@kaalakane Please list the lies in this video. Is it a lie that Mormons denied the priesthood to blacks until 1978? Is it a lie that Mormons strongly opposed the equal rights amendment? It a lie that Mormons donated almost half of the funds to support Prop 8? Where are the lies here? I'm confused.

[Strongme8]

When I am watching this viedo, the Holy Ghost in my heart is telling me that all you said is lies.

[thexjib]

you should listen to the brain in your head instead. everything said is fact.

[Strongme8]

In my brain also said this is not right, it is all the dark side, people whoever don't have the revelations would think this is right.

[cryan71]

Found a great site on line for those who now want to get your named removed from the cult records. The Mormons prop up their membership numbers by refusing to take off names of those who no longer attend the Mormon Church.

The website mormonnomore (dot) com gives fantastic advice and step by step in how to escape Mormonism.

[AshPele]

Oh gosh... go to hell with your video. seriously what is this some type of documentary??? Geez. get your facts strait before you try to bash on my religion. you ass wipe!

[bremenlegation]

your "religion" ia a fucking joke.

even scientology makes more sense than the bullshit you believe in

[Aequitas7777]

Yes I do believe a VOICE OF THE PEOPLE should decide a proposition and such was the case in the state of California.

This is the Democratic process and as such we much abide by and respect it as part of our legal system.

[jtaime3691]

Up until 1967 it was illegal in many states for black people to marry white people. Sometimes the voice of the people is wrong. The fight for equal rights will continue. This is not about religion, it's about human rights. Marriage is a human right.

[Jacksonholenativ]

One MAJOR point you forgot here. Joseph Smith, Jr. ordained several black men to the priesthood including Elijah Abel and others.

[MattressGallery]

Yes, but it was an official policy of the LDS not to let blacks be ordained into the priesthood after Smith's death.

Even Abel's descendants lost their right to partake in temple ceremonies after the 1890s or so. Your church not only has a history of campaigning against civil rights, but continues to tramp all over the rights of homosexuals today.

[Aequitas7777]

Fact: The Mormons were feared in Missouri because they were KNOWN TO BE AGAINST SLAVERY AND WERE CONSIDERED ABOLISHIONISTS BY NEIGHBORS which was a reason they were not welcome. This was a huge issue of the times and the church was always against inequality of all races.

[justme1617]

im a cristian black but i dont think if you voted yes on prop 8 your gay or that your for gay marriage its a constitutional thing and im suprised but kinda not that blacks voted so heavy for it because blacks should kno so much about discrimination on simple rights as a us citizen point is if it was up to the public and not the supreme court desegragation laws would have not pass alot of civil rights laws for blacks would not have passed because the right thing to do was not always popular

[Aequitas7777]

Fact: All races were always allowed to be "full fledged members". This video is referring to holding the Priesthood. These are two completely different things. They are each separate ordinances; Baptism & Priesthood ordination, please get your facts straight.

Fact: Every citizen of the United States has a right to donate to any cause as individuals & to have an opinion; it is something the founding fathers guaranteed to all citizens. And yes it is also a civil right to vote ones conscience.

[MattressGallery]

Do I have a right to vote that Mormons have no right to build temples in my state? How ridiculous.

Proposition 8 should have never been made a referendum in the first place. I'm sure a majority of people in states like Alabama or Arkansas would vote for an anti-Mormon referendum, but that doesn't mean the people should decide on such an issue in the first place!

[halatoakid88]

guess what we won..... prop 8 has pass... yaaaaaaaay

[internetthemepark]

and in 2 blue states.

maybe people will wake up and stop attacking prop8 supporters with labels of "hate". pathetic.

[NOtoPROP8]

This is standard operating procedure for the Church of Latter-Day Hate. They used the same techniques against gay people as they did women and non-whites.

[scottepants]

I was inundated with heterosexual images as a child, and it didn't change the real me ... as a gay individual. I had heterosexual literally crammed down my throat to no avail. It would have been healing, to say the least, to have some gay icons and images to validate what I was feeling inside, but there weren't any. Thank god for the 1960's and the sexual revolution.

[brandyspearsca]

excellent! Let that crazy cult have it.

[mamamarsha]

This video is a copout...

[kynan41]

If we have seperation of church and state. Why not have seperation of Sexual Orientation of state then?

[greling]

Why not? I mean, no more laws banning same-sex marriage and allowing people to refuse to rent to gays or fire someone simply because of their sexuality. Why not just leave gay people alone?

[kynan41]

Well in my High School in Seattle their ideas saying that it is ok to experiment and try it out was shown in my school. Why can't I then show a video saying it's ok to try out going to church and joining the mormon church? If Prop 8 dosen't pass then it will allow more freedom for gays to teach their ideas and opinions in schools.

[greling]

Sorry, Prop. 8 is about marriage. It has nothing to do with schools. Even if Prop. 8 passes, people could still teach your kids about gays in schools. Nothing in Prop. 8 can prevent that. Your side wants to deliberately spread lies and that's fine, because it only hurts your cause in the end. People will see the truth and you'll be on the wrong side of history.

[greling]

UPDATE:

Mormons have contributed 77% of the funding for Prop. 8 to-date. Scary!

[Euphrates2005]

This is for Cryan71, If you do some research using reputable source, then you will learn that Mormons have been on the forefront of civil rights. One of the core reasons that mormons where hated so much in Missouri in the 1800s and eventually driven from the state was becaus they adhered to abolishionist ideology and were tipping the scale in favor of banning slavery. Utah with its high Mormon population gave woman the right to vote second only to Wyoming. Those are the facts.

[cryan71]

"ne of the core reasons that mormons where hated so much in Missouri in the 1800s and eventually driven from the state was becaus they adhered to abolishionist"

No proof of that -- there are some great quotes where Joseph Smith denies this outright.

"Utah with its high Mormon population gave woman the right to vote "

Actually it was the US Govt who did this thinking that the women would vote against polygamy. They didn't and the right was taken away.

[kynan41]

So do you get paid to attack mormons, because I see your comments everywhere attacking our church. What did the church do to you that made you so angry? Do you have no life? oh and by the way here is the defintion of Bigot: a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion. You called me a Bigot, I would say you are a million times worse. I'm not angry at gays, I just don't think they should be able to change marriage. You wish the destruction of our church.get a life

[cryan71]

"So do you get paid to attack mormons"

No, I don't attack mormons. I correct them with love.

"What did the church do to you that made you so angry?"

They are trying to change the constitution of California to exclude gays from a current right.

"Do you have no life?"

I'm too wealthy to not have a life. But thanks for asking, the answer is yes.

[cryan71]

"I just don't think they should be able to change marriage. "

Well, since mormons are the originators of changing marriage, and the fact the marriage changes all the time, I would say that you need to keep your religion in the wards, stake centers and temples -- and not in our constitution.

"You wish the destruction of our church.get a life "

I don't. I think the mormons will destroy themselves over time.

[kynan41]

"I would say that you need to keep your religion in the wards, stake centers and temples -- and not in our constitution."

No

[channelhismojo]

@Euphrates2005 UTAH WAS A SLAVE STATE! It sanctioned slavery in 1852 but had resident black servants from the time Brigham Young established Salt Lake City. US congress forced the end of slavery in 1862. The Fed gvmnt forced Mormons to end polygamy, and the Black's priesthood ban.

Mormons were driven from MO because of the Danites & Joseph Smith's 1831 "revelation" which stated that the time had come for the property of "Gentiles" to be "consecrated [stolen] unto those of the house of Israel"

[zubDabber]

@Euphrates2005 So a woman can be prophet in the Mormon church? Mormons never denied African Americans full participation in the church? Mormons never said that blacks had the curse of Cain? When Mormon's practiced polygamy, women could take multiple husbands? Mormons don't believe the polygamy will be re-instated in the afterlife, where faithful men will have multiple wives (basically a harem)? Your record on gender and race seems pretty clear.

[kynan41]

I don't think gay people are bad people at all. I'm from seattle and in fact I have some friends are gay, I just don't agree with their way of life. You love them but hate the sin. People like cryan are the true Bigots, look at his comments below. Cryan says lies and is twisting the truth, do some reasearch and you will see that. Like Hitler was a Christian, thats very debateable. The fact is gay marriage will take away rights from people who don't believe in that lifestyle. Not very fair.

[cryan71]

"Im from seattle and in fact I have some friends are gay, "

And that's how the bigots statements begin...

"People like cryan are the true Bigots, look at his comments below. "

I'm trying to correct a misguided group of people from denying their history as well as forcing their religion on everyone in CA.

"Cryan says lies and is twisting the truth, do some reasearch and you will see that. "

What lies? What twisting of the truth?

[cryan71]

"Like Hitler was a Christian, thats very debateable."

But not only was Hitler a Christian, but he used Christianity to justify the evil he did against Jews and other people.

from a speech in 1922:

"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter." If Hitler says he's a Christian, who are we to tell him whether he is or not.

[kynan41]

Hitler also says "Christianity is an invention of sick brains," Adolf Hitler

13 December 1941

"So it's not opportune to hurl ourselves now into a struggle with the Churches. The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death," Adolf Hitler

14 October 1941

Wow sounds very Christian to me. You are an Anti-Christ and stop trying spreading your lies, and forcing your beliefs on others by twisting the truth.

[cryan71]

"Wow sounds very Christian to me. You are an Anti-Christ and stop trying spreading your lies, and forcing your beliefs on others by twisting the truth."

Considering how supposed Christians are trying to force their beliefs on California, I would say look in your own eye for that spec.

[pjdumas]

Hey cryin'1: Maybe the Mormons can donate so much money because they have prospered from provident living. I understand they don't have to pay their ministers either, so that frees up a lot of tithing money that other religions use to pay their clergy. I think the gay community should better spend all of their money on finding a cure...but of course that lifestyle is so decadently fun why would they do that?

[cryan71]

"Maybe the Mormons can donate so much money because they have prospered from provident living."

God, what was it Jesus said about rich people -- something about a camel through a needle.

"I understand they don't have to pay their ministers either"

Except, the president, twelve apostles and the seventy -- big money too from what I hear.

"I think the gay community should better spend all of their money on finding a cure"

A cure for Mormonism? Sure. Why not. Gov. Boggs had a cure.

[pjdumas]

What I find most interesting with Yes on Prop 8 is that it isn't only the Mormons, but the Catholics, Methodists, Lutherans, Baptists, Evangelicals, Jews, Muslims,...Who knew so many different faiths could actually be united against furthering the gay agenda dispite what the media would have us believe? This country was founded on freedom of religion, not freedom from it. YES on 8.

[cryan71]

Stop trying to hide behind other religions. The Mormons provided 70% of the funding and pretty much (according to leaked internal documents) all the foot work.

You should be proud.

[azapachekid]

If prop 8 passes in California passes it won't be because of the Mormons,who as the video stated makeup only 2% of the state...

it will be because the other 98% chose to not vote for prop 8.

[joshisimo]

huh?

[internetthemepark]

exactly. and thats what happened.

newsflash: 2% of the population didnt mind-control the entire state to vote for obama and for traditional marriage........

idiots

[joshisimo]

The topic here is "Mormons, Civil Rights & Prop 8". Why were black people not allowed to hold the priesthood until 1978? Why did the church fight against the ERA? The ERA was simple: "Equality of rights under the law shall not be denied or abridged on account of sex." Why would anyone fight against equal rights for women? Now the church is trying to deny gay people the right to marry.  What's up with that?

[spanishwheeler]

Read the bible the priesthood has always been held by only a select few, the tribe of Levi for example. The gentiles weren't even allowed into the church until Paul had his revelation, the point is God has his motives and who are we to question them. As far as the ERA movement look at how little respect women get nowadays, yeah they get jobs and there are some amazing successful women out there, but at what cost, kids not knowing their parents, women looked down upon for wanting to stay at home

[joshisimo]

Who has more magical power -- a Maori witch-doctor, a Catholic priest, a Mormon prophet, an Islamic cleric, or a soothsayer from ancient Rome who predicts the future by examining the entrails of a disemboweled goat? To me its all baloney. Thomas Edison said it best: Religion is bunk!

[kynan41]

If you really want to know, why don't you talk to the missionaries, or try going to their church one day and ask questions, are you really truly seeking for answers, or are you just looking for a fight and trying to attack the church with every anti-mormon thing you can find on the internet? Internet has a lot of lies and isent very realiable, its hard to know what is true and what isen't. You can find anti-anything online.

[kynan41]

Mormons donate millions of dollars to help others such as victims of Hurricane Katrina. They donate thousands of hours of community service. Of course you dont mention any of this or talk about all the good they do. I wonder how much community service and money Joshisimo has donated to help others. Don't listen to this guy he just is twisting truths and making up lies. Why don't you do something better with your time like get an education.

[cryan71]

I mormons were out there making sure that every one knew that they give millions of dollars to Katrina victims.

Considering the billions on billions of dollars the mormon church has, this was just a drop in the bucket.

It would be like me giving a quarter to a homeless person on the street. And they shouting out to everyone passing by -- "Look at me, I'm giving money to a homeless person. Ain't I so cool. Don't forget, it was me who gave money to the homeless!"

[spanishwheeler]

The Mormon leaders only tell the members so that the members know they aren't just taking their money, it's the Mormon members who spread it around, and it's true the church only gave a small percent of their money to katrina victims, cause another small percent is given to starving people in Africa, and another to poor people in south america to get an education, and to millions of people all over the globe including within the US so that they can stay afloat in this time of economic turmoil.

[cryan71]

"The Mormon leaders only tell the members "

Wow, that's a whopper of a lie. I knew the mormons lied well -- but man, that's a big one.

[spanishwheeler]

hehe you're right we have these Giant ads on TV bilboards and everything saying Mormons are the best!! We do tons of humanitarian aid go us!!!.... oh wait no they don't they occasionaly have an ad where you can call for a free bible but I suppose that's evil to, think of all the paper cuts people are getting

[cryan71]

No, the church sends out press release after press release to the media (you know that damn librul jew media!), about how much they are doing.

[spanishwheeler]

The press doesn't print it though when was the last time you saw anything good about the mormons in a newspaper or on the media, for me, two years ago in spain, mormons did something with family history documentation. thats it.

[cryan71]

Yes they do. Geez, the penchant of mormons to lie is truly eye opening.

At one point in my life, I used to think of them as honest. Not any more.

[spanishwheeler]

hehe you are so right mormon's are all over the news nowadays. I wish we could exterminate them went over real well in missouri. I mean who wants kind people, religiously motivated, good citizens, tax payers, who have a religious belief to obey honor and sustain the law crowding up their country. Crowding up our newspapers with all their "good deeds" lets get rid of them their bad to the core.

[spanishwheeler]

It would be more like you giving a quarter to every homeless person you have ever met and not just homeless people, but people who really needed quarters, and then after you give a quarter to one really famous homeless person, telling your brother about it when he asks what you do with all your money and then HIM telling everyone about it

But nice try with the whole blind hatred thing, those Mormons really are bad people, y'know believing in wholesome family values, someone has got to stop them.

[vinadi88]

y'all just a bunch of morons..mormons dnt do that, its dumbass people like u who got no life but spread lies...leave them alone, wat have they done to you? From wat I c u guyz are just JEALOUS...they seem happy and you're not and you guyz just wanna c them as miserable as you are....

[harkeyahh]

Oh please. I have coffee and you will never know the pleasure a cappuccino can bring to a man in the morning. You´re the one suffering you incompetent fool! Bwahahahahah all you can do is smell the coffee and wonder at what you´ve missed...

[kynan41]

Wow people can't do good in this world anymore without being criticized for doing things such as giving money to the poor. No wonder this world keeps getting worse. At least they do something! People like you who twist something good and make it look bad. People did it to Christ as well. He did a lot of good for others and he was criticized and persecuted for it. Don't you realize what you are doing cryan? You attack people who are just trying their best to be good people.

[cryan71]

" You attack people who are just trying their best to be good people. "

The same could be said about the Mormons and Proposition 8.

[kynan41]

Then cryan you are no better than the mormons according to your reasoning. You would be doing exactly what they are doing.Yet I think this is a little off because Mormons don't attack gays. They just don't agree with their way of life. There is a difference. They just follow what it says in the Bible which clearly states that gay relations is abomnation unto the lord. That's a Christian blief,Well why don't you attack all Christians then? That is a lot of people to attack,millions upon millions.

[cryan71]

"Then cryan you are no better than the mormons according to your reasoning. "

Duh. I've been trying to show the Mormons is that they are just as hated as gays. They have no business trying to tell California what to do.

"the Bible which clearly states that gay relations is abomnation"

And eating shrimp...

And wearing clothes made of two fabrics...

And eating fruit from a tree less than five years old...

And having sex with a woman on her period...

Thank god the USA isn't a theocracy.

[kynan41]

Wow, your reasoning is terrible and flawed. Your understanding of the bible is off as well. Do some better research on the bible other then what you get off of the internet, because you don't know what your talking about. Having sex with a woman on her period was back with the Law of Moses which Jesus Christ fulfilled and gave us the new law. Meaning it dosen't apply to our day. The new law is Christ teaching's thus the old and NEW testiment. I'm done arguing with someone who is so ignorant.

[cryan71]

"Having sex with a woman on her period was back with the Law of Moses which Jesus Christ fulfilled and gave us the new law. "

Then why the hell are you using the same Leviticus laws to comdemn gay people?

Stop picking and choosing out of the bible to condemn people. It's so un-christian of you. You mock Jesus Christ and all he stood for.

Stop being a modern day Pharisee. Stop being a hypocrite. Stop judging people.

Vote No on Prop 8.

[huh98]

hey al queda and hammas feed the poor in they're countries too. So they can brainwash and induct.just like mormon Dosen't make them good people or decent because their other actions cancel out any good they may do. Sorry but I understand how propaghanda and facisism works. If they wanted to convince me that they were decent then they would stop trying to surpress others, especially those who don't believe in their little cult and the ideas of a prophet that can rewrite scripture? that's absurd.

[spanishwheeler]

Hehe you're so right, mormons are as bad as al quaida, for every 4 crates of food they send to poor countries there's a crate of explosive vests for the brainwashed suicide bombers they have prepared to kill all the heathen nonbelievers. I'm so glad you opened my eyes! We need to start an extermination order it worked in missouri.

[huh98]

well with two war fronts that would be spreadind it our military a bit thin. I suggest starting a bit small. Perhaps invasion and quarintine of Branson and see how that works first.

[spanishwheeler]

well most people don't like mormons anyways what with their healthy lifestyle and beautiful chaste women, so we should just make it free game to shoot them unless they move to canada cause lets face it freedom of religion is so 1700s and if you look it up the whole "exterminate mormons" idea isn't new, they had it going in missouri from the 1830s to like the 1970s we just need to do it nation-wide so that our country can be more freed of those pesky morals and ethics that keep us from having fun

[cryan71]

No most people don't like mormonism for their odd religious beliefs.

Mormons have shown that those pesky morals and ethics can be put aside when it comes to politics.

[spanishwheeler]

oh yeah cause there's nothing right about protecting religious freedom or the family unit How could they even consider that? why can't they just chip away at religious freedom like everyone else? Why can't they destroy the family? Why can't they degrade marriage to be just a legal contract? Everyone's doing it so it must be right. Right? Cause the majority decides what's ethical right? Ethics are a fixed social construct, might is right!

[cryan71]

"protecting religious freedom"

Prop 8 doesn't affect religious freedom at all.

"the family unit "

Prop 8 won't affect your family unit.

"chip away at religious freedom"

No one is chipping away at your religious freedom.

"Why can't they degrade marriage to be just a legal contract?"

Because that's what is under state law.

[cryan71]

"Cause the majority decides what's ethical right?"

If such was the case, blacks wouldn't have rights or the ability to marry outside their race.

"Everyone's doing it so it must be right. Right?"

Every is having same sex marriages? Really?

[spanishwheeler]

hehe yeah prop 8 won't effect religious freedom tell that to the catholic adoption agency in Massachusetts that had to shut it's doors because they wouldn't let a lesbian couple adopt a baby due to their religious beliefs. Or the doctor who lost his practice and license because he refused to preform invitro on a lezbian couple because of his religious beliefs.

No, civil unions are legal contracts under state law, marriage is a union of a husband and a wife, something to start a family with.

[cryan71]

You mean that Catholic agency that used to let gays adopt until a change of management? The same that took state funds and had to abide by state non-discrimination laws? You mean that one?

Yeah -- sorry, while you'd like to think this had something to do with gay marriage. It didn't.

They closed because they couldn't survive without the state funding and decided to make a stand on the issue.

Sorry, keep trying.

[cryan71]

"s. Or the doctor who lost his practice and license because he refused to preform invitro on a lezbian couple because of his religious beliefs."

Again non-discrimination laws -- not gay marriage.

Hey if you want to disobey the law and discriminate based upon a protected category, best move to a state that doesn't have laws protecting that category.

[cryan71]

"No, civil unions are legal contracts under state law, marriage is a union of a husband and a wife, something to start a family with."

No marriage is a legal contract too. And now, thanks to the state supreme courts wise decision, gays can be a part of marriage.

In fact, if Prop 8 fails, there will be a move to get rid of the Civil Unions law since it's archaic and won't be used.

[spanishwheeler]

hehe exactly my point these state anti-discrimination laws prevented them from exercising their fundamental constitutional right of freedom of religion, prop 8 will further force religious people to participate in acts which are, to them immoral, such as preforming same-sex marriages all under the banner of "tolerance." My question is when will the tyranny of tolerance swing for the religious people?

[cryan71]

So now your against anti-discrimination laws.

The same once that protect minorities, disabled people, women, etc. from being discriminated against.

So the church rental business in question would be okay to also discriminate against a black person if their religion included a part against black people.

Or, the doctor could deny invitro because the woman is disabled, if they believed that disabled people in sin?

And you win the tyranny of bigotry award. Congrats!

[spanishwheeler]

and yeah the majority is soooo against black people nowadays, not like we have a black presidential candidate who's up in the polls.

And no everyone isnt having same sex marriages, but everyone believes them to be completely ok and moral whereas 50 years ago they were completely immoral. Its a good thing morality is so subjective I can't wait til its no longer immoral to steal that'll be sweet. What are morals really? I mean if there is no God to hold us accountable, how do we define morality?

[cryan71]

"and yeah the majority is soooo against black people nowadays"

back in the 60s, if Brown vs. Board of Education was put up to a vote to overturn it -- it would have been overturned.

"I mean if there is no God to hold us accountable, how do we define morality? "

So all Atheists are running around killing people, robbing people and raping people cause there is no morality without God?

[spanishwheeler]

that's my question, why is there morality without God? Is there a certain universal standard of morals that we are compelled to adhere to? if so who set them and what holds us accountable to them? If you believe morals are based on a society or cultural standard than how can you condemn hitler for killing off the Jews his society had no problem with it or how can you condemn the mormons for their support of prop 8 for it is there culture to do so and who can say which culture has better morals?

[cryan71]

"that's my question, why is there morality without God? "

If you want to make the US a theocracy -- then go ahead. Let's see how far you get with that.

ummm.. Hitler was Christian. Yep, those morals worked for them. And I wonder why Hitler tolerated the Mormons. Oh that's right, German saints were supportive of the Third Reich.

[cryan71]

Though now Hitler is a Mormon. You guys did proxy temple work for him and Eva.

[spanishwheeler]

hehe you got jokes funny, but you still haven't answered the question, you just sidestepped it. Kinda combined slippery slope and red herring fallacies you must be really good at lying and convincing stupid people about things

[cryan71]

"really good at lying and convincing stupid people about things "

no, we call those people Mormons.

[spanishwheeler]

oh yeah we´re the manipulators, considering our missionary force is made up of 19 year old boys, who get a month of training to ¨brainwash people¨ and I believe you´re the one whose arguments have been riddled with fallacy, whereas mine have been based on sound logic Ah yes sound logic the great manipulator. It makes people choose between accepting the truth or throwing out irrelevant and invalid arguments. looks like you chose the latter. good use of the ad hominem fallacy on the last one

[huh98]

where did I say that working women were all beautiful and chaste. where did I say that you didn't have the freedom of religion. worship whatever you wish, but don't try and make others worship your brand of mythology. Look I applaud you in your faith I only condem your narrow minded views that society shuns those who say at home at bad people and that a working mother is evil. You're insulting and misogenist there. You're not preaching freedom of religion.

[huh98]

what you're preaching is something else. you're wanting people to only practice YOUR faith. Sorry that's not how freedom works. If I'm truly free to worship what I wish then I can decide whether or not to worship mormonism. Stop being a damn facist. Understand this, I'm NOT telling you to Not be a mormon. Do it. More power to you but if you preach "freedom of religion" understand what that truly means and accept that if you call others immoral they will take offense and will defend themselves.

[spanishwheeler]

We arent forcing anyone to practice only our faith ¨let them worship how, where, or what they may¨ is one of our core doctrines but if Prop8 doesn´t pass it is going to take away our religious freedom and force us to practice in a certain way We will no longer be able to believe that marriage is only between a man and a woman, preachers will be forced to preform religious ceremonies like marriages that are contrary to their religious beliefs wheres the religious freedom there?

[cryan71]

"We arent forcing anyone to practice only our faith"

What about the churches that want gay marriages? You are forcing them to adopt your church's view.

[internetthemepark]

um. a democratic vote doesnt "force" anything. 4 judges overturning a democratic vote does.

oops

[bEEarCUB]

"Prop8 doesn´t pass it is going to take away our religious freedom and force us to practice in a certain way"

I don't see how this is any different than those who claimed repealing seggregation laws took away religious freedoms and civil rights of whites.

"preachers will be forced to preform religious ceremonies like marriages that are contrary to their religious beliefs wheres the religious freedom there"

They don't have to marry athesits, or any group that does not fit their mold.

[spanishwheeler]

Oh my gosh are you serious?? GAY PEOPLE AREN'T A RACE!!!! If I were black I'd be pissed, Homosexuals aren't a minority, they're a special interest group

[bEEarCUB]

They ARE a minority (look it up, its pretty simple), and have FAR more in common with a 'racial miniority' than, say, Christians (a truly choosen 'intrest group').

Why don't you go kick some Down Snyndrom children ... with as much respect as you have for 'special intrest groups' it should be a load of fun.

[bEEarCUB]

Ohh, and in case you don't know how to access a dictionary.

-------------------------

MINORITY

a. The smaller in number of two groups forming a whole.

b. A group or party having fewer than a controlling number of votes.

2. a. An ethnic, racial, religious, or other group having a distinctive presence within a society. b. A group having little power or representation relative to other groups within a society. c. A member of one of these groups.

[vinadi88]

haha...u sooo FUNI...NOT...pliz I know that you are an al quaida urself, so pliz stop tryin to save ur sorry ass N blame it on others...try N do an extermination order...we will c who will be exterminated

[johnPhilos]

Mormons lead the fight against gay marriage like they once opposed interracial marriages:

"Had I anything to do with the negro, I would confine them by strict law to their own species...

(Joseph Smith, Jr. History of the Church)

"Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so."

Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses

[internetthemepark]

religious bigotry doesn't help your cause.

california voted decisively to keep marriage the way it is. if you think its because scary mormons controlled their minds then you're insanely stupid.