It's like this: a fan of Vinnie Colaiuta is like someone who can't distinguish Vincent van Gogh from the world's fastest house painter and who replies to your objection that the house painter is nothing but a soulless technician (at best) by saying: "YOU can't paint a house as fast as Vinnie! NO ONE can paint a house as fast as Vinnie (except maybe Buddy Rich, but he's dead!) THAT makes him a better painter than Vincent van Gogh!"
The man deservedly makes so much money playing the drums..........why would he or anyone put up with glasses in this day and time. If Lasik is not an option for him, maybe he should check out contacts. The chops are sick by the way! (meaning VC is great!)
@chungiemunchin he does wear contacts sometimes, but they probably get uncomfortable with sweat running in your eyes...that's my guess, being a drummer and sometimes wearing contacts.
Cara dá gosto de ver, dá gosto!!! O cara numa idade dessa tão moderno! Vinnie é o melhor e DE FATO não tem pra mais ninguém. Ele é viscera, toca curtindo a música, Perfeito!
@moudiwort & USHOUS I've noticed Vinnie always seems to be messing with his glasses. Amazing that he plays these wild 32nd grooves AND finds a beat to screw with his specs....
Anybody knows what Hi Hat is He using? Seems to be a K Zildjian 14" but I'm not sure! He often uses it on many records or live situation.. Thanks to all!
It's hard to call rap/hip hop music when its usually computerised drumming and sound effects with a guy/girl talking over it. Most rap I hear doesnt even have good beats these days. The Chronic by Dr. Dre did have some really cool beats though. And how can anyone call vinnies style showing off when the style of music he plays to is all about feeling what do next?
I just think this is limited mediocre drumming. Chops? Fuck chops. Any good musician should be able to remove the bullshit ego crap and play from the heart. All this stupid drum solo, super fast single stroke double stroke bullshit pisses me off. I want somebody to approach the drums without any pretensions. Somebody that will see the instrument as limitless and not just "drums" "cymbal" Hi Hat". But I'll stop arguing. Good stuff Vinnie you're a good drummer.
Wow jdubeats if you dont like it then dont listen to it, maybe you should put that passionate energy of yours into something more creative than dissing someone that alot of people love and appreciate.
A REAL musician doesn't criticize another, no matter what he plays. A REAL musician listens to anything and everything and isn't biased. A REAL musician appreciates what he hears, even if it comes from a novice.
@DMeloMan .... you are being idealistic . Yes something can be taken from almost anyone ... but more often than not the most valuable thing one can learn , especially from the " novices " you cite , is what NOT to do on the drums .
this idea you have that a real musician doesnt criticize another no matter what he plays ... that is at best idealistic , at worst ignorant ....if what you say were true then there really would be no difference between me and jo jo mayer ... by your logic we both have an equal amount to offer ... this is simply not true
Your twisting my words. jo jo mayer plays different than aaron spears, but they don't say that one another sucks. Just because you don't play like jo jo mayer doesn't mean you suck. What if there were only one style of music in the world, wouldn't that suck? if you say you like this style but another person likes another then who's right? Your both people aren't you
Its not about style and its not about Aaron Spears or Jo Jo Mayer . I was merely making the point that you seem to think all music , however novice ( your word ) it may be has value . I think that is at best idealistic at worst just plain wrong . Can you honestly say you like and appreciate all music ? I can definitely say I DO NOT like most of the music I hear regardless of style , ability , and musical expertise .
I hear that ... but you know man ... you should check out Jay Z MTV Unplugged .... He has The Roots backing him up ... ? Love on drums ... it is one of the best records I have ever heard .
Stop reading my comments and complaining. You sound like a girl I used to talk to online in seventh grade with your awful question mark placements. Quit bitching and leave me alone I'll argue with whoever I want to online.
I know the comment was useless I just wanted to see how people would react. But do check out Jaki Liebezeit he's very good. Similar drumming but a lot more intense.. not to say Vinnie's playing isn't.
Showoff crap? wtf? Boy you would have a brain hemorrhage if you went to a drum corps show then. Why are all these people so threatened by Vinnie? The guy has some great time but to call him a show off? now that is funny!
Jaki Liebezeit FTW best groove drummer of all time. Did much more interesting things with the drums in the late sixties way before any of this stupid showoff crap.
YOU ASKED FOR A GROOVE WE GIVE YOU COLAIUTA. What more could you ask ? heavy, like a train, soul, ... A bodily experience of drumming full of invention, untouchable polyrhythm art, heavy, sometimes raw but alway brilliant and breathing naturally. Vinnie Colaiuta is the Everest of drumming and last but not least, a very smart and cool guy... take a bow, please.
Who ever would say anything about an artist like this, PLEASE send us a link to your work. I would (along with others) would love to what CRED you would have to even comment about this or any artist at that level. And if you have that kind of chops I would love to applaud you!
where was this taken? i went to see the hungarian show in Veszprem. great music, bud it was in a sport hall instead of the castle and the sound was very bad. you had to be right in front of the stage to hear anything... :-(
THIS GUY IS MY ROCKS!!! HAS EVERYTHING WHAT A DRUMMER NEEDS. HE IS CREATIVCE, POWERFUL AND INOVATIVE!
I read somewhere that Vinnie Colaiuta doesn't like it when people video his performances. And now I finally figured out why.....because a bunch of nerds on the internet will either pick it apart with a metronome or masturbate to it with a Modern Drummer in the other hand.
Let's also not confuse absolute time with groove. I just wanted to check the referenced spots. Turns out scottp's observations are incorrect. Yes, it ebbs slighty
Natural time moves anyway. EVERYbody's. Just get some live recordings (w/o click and/or trax) and a click.
I obsessed on time a long time ago and started checking all the 'heavies' playing live. NObody kept it perfectly. Erykah Badu live w/ Poogie feels amazing, but is all over the road! Doesn't matter, though. Groove, pocket, vibe!
I agree with everything you said. Absolutely. Carlton Barrett = great example. And in the end, it's how the song FEELS... which was my point all along... that, and the over-use of the word "groove."
BTW, I was not obsessing over "tempo." I was pointing out places where the feel suffered, tempo not really being part of that analysis. I love Vinnie, but it's not his feel that I go to him for. It's his unique attitude.
What is feel? Groove? Pocket? All 3 are here: Macy Gray: "Moment to Myself"
You're missing the point entirely. It's one thing to isolate the drums when someone is following a soloist who may be pushing or pulling. And it's another to do so if they're just playing by themselves unaccompanied. Wouldn't you agree? So "Breakbeats" are way off topic. Either way, to me, the time still feels good in this clip.
It does feel great and the syncopation is what is misunderstood, as far as, "hiccups" and such. Know your subdivisions. BTW, I think he was referring to breaks(drum breaks/fills), not breakbeats in the last post. You know, like that sassy Brickhouse intro.
4limbs, you make a good point. That leads us to: during a solo, who's keeping time, drummer or soloist? My point was that groove can be felt, or missed, w/ drums alone.
I will say, one thing I've noticed about Vinnie in general: he often seems in a hurry to get to the next measure. Not BAD. That contributes to the things I love about his playing: attitude, fearlessness, tenacity, etc.... But his strengths are not the same as other drummers'. Individuals. We'll appreciate each for what they are?
VinnieFreak said: "the very last note he plays is dead on the downbeat w/ the click." There is no way that is dead on. Put all the audio into a wav file and analyze the pulse w/ Audacity. I just did, and the last note is off.
Anyway, tempo can be perfect but groove lost, no? (Drum machine) I'm not talking about lost tempo; I'm talking about fine tempo w/ fine groove, then one note slightly misplaced, which does stick out and detract from groove.
Not to get all academic on you, but according to the click, all of the references were incorrect.
:08 is loose but click is solid on 112. 0:30 it actually settles back (not rushes) it naturally works back to 112. THen settles back again at 1:15...while reaching down to pick up his glasses. : )
It doesn't really pick up until a little way into Herbies solo, around 2:30. Everything else has been comfortably hovering 110-112. It settles again when he goes to kick and hats...not rushes.
OK, so this has been an fun flame session to read. Opinions are opinions and that's all cool. scottp118 referenced many specific spots pointing out Vinnie's questionable time. So, to get the official word on it, I busted out Ableton LIVE and ran the click with it. It mostly hovers between 110 and 112, Herbie getting crazy during his solo and pushing it to almost 116 in a few short spots. High energy baby! Pretty amazing for a big stage, live humans with different tendencies, and no click/trax.
Sorry, but scottp118 is an idiot. You can't possibly get an idea of how "grooving" it is when you're hearing the drums from stage, and everything else from the house. With slapback, and verb, and all that other stuff going on. Not to mention that he's following the push and pull of the soloist. And it still sounds good! I don't mind opinions when they're warranted, but you couldn't fucking carry Vinnie's lunch. And I'm sure you can't play your way out of a wet, perforated paper bag. Clueless!
4limbs, nice! I CAN get an idea of a drummer's groove and feel even if he's playing alone, as can anyone w/ experience. When I hear basically 4-on-the-floor with several steady measures but then one place that stutters, that says lots about groove, no? Listen to the transition @ 8 seconds, @ 50 seconds, the rushing @ 1:53, 2:09, 2:59, and 3:50, and the late kick @ 4:03. Listen to the DRUMS and no other instrument, as you advocate. If you don't hear the above, you probably can't groove yourself.
I've tried referencing the spots you're referring to, and have no idea what you're talking about. If anythng, you're misinterpreting his "egging" of certain little figures as being mistakes.....these are totally intentional. The "late kick" at 4:03 is a triplet figure against the straight eighth, which gives it some tension. If you're not familiar with certain concepts, I can't really engage in a legitimate argument with you.
You're making excuses. There's no triplet figure at the end. He's milliseconds late... but noticeably. And the other spots are "egging"? Even if they all were transitions from verse to chorus, where tempo often rises, why would it come back down after 1 note? It's because 1 note is just a tiny hair soon or late. No crime. We all do it. But let's be honest and admit it detracts from the groove. Close your eyes, play the video, and listen. Those spots jump out as hiccups to any discriminating ear.
I think he plays a triplet figure then follows it up with a mixed swung/straight figure. In the case of the final kick, he's just playing slightly ahead of the time with the groove on the aux. snare, so he kind of resets the groove by doing that.
It makes me laugh how some people think he's not acutely aware of what he's doing as he's doing it, he's anticipating all of this stuff and executing it in a way that affirms his masterful sensitivity on the instrument.
4Limbs, last time you said I was letting house sound invalidate my eval of the drum (stage) groove. And now drums shouldn't be examined alone? Which is it? We're not talking pocket ; one must groove first, then nail pocket. So a drummer CAN be isolated and examined for groove. My god, if that weren't the case, why is there consensus about which of those 70's soul and funk drum breaks and intros are so groovy? Those are drums only? And wow, they groove! Google "funky drum beats and breaks." Fun!
4limbs, also, do not try to create a strawman argument by turning this into a me vs. Vinnie thing. No, I can't carry his lunch. Nor have I asked. Of course he's better than me, he's Vinnie! If you'll re-read my posts, you'll see that I said "only" that Vinnie is not in the same league as the true groove and feel drummers of our time. And I'll stick with that. Did you listen to the places I posted? Is my opinion "warranted"? Gee, I hope you'll say yes. Actually, I need no validation by a fanboy.
I'm a "fanboy" of anyone who plays with conviction, musicality and balls (Gary Novak is another great example). To say that "Vinnie is not in the same league as the true groove and feel drummers of our time" is quite uninformed. If you listened to the gamut of artists he's played with for the last 30 years, you'd realize what a bold statement that is. I guess he's managed to fool all of them, and the drumming community during that time.
4limbs: Is all music intended to be slick, deep, groove and feel music? Of course not. So your statement about him having fooled all those great names is nonsense. I'm sure he gave what they needed. I do love Vinnie overall, but no, he is not in the same "feel" league. Answer honestly: does he groove as deep as Gadd? Purdie? Gadson? Chamberlain? R.Marotta? Katche? Stubblefield? Starkes? Jordan? Zigaboo? Drayton? No informed drummer would answer yes to MAYBE more than 1 or 2 of those.
I know what you're trying to say, and clearly there are enough posts on this one page to suggest that a lot people agree with you. Maybe it's the big halls. There was certainly too much two and four without the groove when he was playing with Herbie on tour. And before I get hammered, I am a major Vinnie fan, have seen him live many times, from Zappa in 78 and Joni in 83 onwards. He can do it all. Check out the baked potato clips
Vinnie plays alot more groove and alot less busyness when he records. That's why he gets so much studio work. Listen to his Steely Dan recording or Dog Eat Dog from Joni Mitchell or his recordings with Faith Hill to name just a few.
To say Vinnie can't be a pocket drummer is uninformed.
This video is a poor one to judge him from. Listen to Panther by Marcus Miller on the Legends of Jazz channel or It's on by George Duke on the same channel.
Somehow I've been put in the position of seeming like I'm bashing a man who's one of my top 5!! My fault for throwing myself in....
ALL of this is just my opinion, gentleman, but OTOH I know plenty agree with me, and perhaps even Vin himself (if reading his praise of Porcaro and Gadd's feel is any indication). But I just do not place Vinnie in that top echelon of groove and feel drummers. Feel drummers do what Purdie does in the David Haney vid. VC can groove, just not on that same level.
Scott, you're over-playing your hand to suggest he can't groove. If you want to hear Vinnie playing groove music, you can go right back to the Gino Vanelli (Nightwalker) and Lee Ritenour (Portrait) work he did in the 80s. Or his work on Rit's House. There are probably some even better examples, but those are the ones that come to mind.
Nick: I really hope I didn't say that Vinnie could never groove. I'm simply saying that he is not a natural laid back groove drummer in the same way as some other top-tier greats. That's all! Shouldn't be that controversial, should it?
I'm certainly not uninformed (as someone said), as this is the kind of thing discussed all the time around here. Really, my main point is just this: "Careful! He can't do everything. And some can even do things he can't." Some seem to miss this point, that's all.
scottp118- my post about being uniformed wasn't directed at you or anyone in particular, just the general tone of all the posts that are complaining about this awful video.
Yes there are drummers that are particularly good at certain styles, Ala "pretty" Purdie, Porcaro, etc. Vinnie (particularly in the studio) has played much deeper pocket and simpler grooves. I'm just saying this video is a shitty one to comment on at all.
Nope. Been playing nearly 30 years. What's "beginner" is to assume that one single drummer is so good that he can do everything better than anyone else, that his style completely subsumes all of the other greats. THAT is what I'm cautioning against. I love Vinnie, but let's be real about what each drummer is and is not.
Ok. I'm going to get blasted here. So be it. Vinnie is one of my top 5 drummers ever, but... to use the word "groove" to describe this? The word's already greatly overused. The "groove" here is lost not 10 seconds in, literally, and at 28. And the fill at 50 seconds stifles any groove inertia that had built up in the previous measures. As I've said before, Vinnie is one of the true greats, but he just is not a "feel" drummer. Not insulting him. Tony Williams is not Bernard Purdie, either.
The groove is not what someone plays, its what they convey. The bass player is holding down stright time, if he wasn't Vinnie would be. He's playing drums this way b/c he's allowed to, not b/c he needs to.
He comes out of his fill/s set-ups 'in the groove', like they never happened, which is hard to do.
To say Vin can't groove is ridiculous. This is not groove music. Did he play this way on any of Sting or Faith Hill's stuff? Any drummer would play this way on this type of music. A drummer on this level can play groovy when needed, & play outside when they needed. When you get to the level of a Colaiuta, Gadd, Purdie, Williams, you can play any style you want pretty well. Vin has went from Zappa to Beck to Sting to Megadeth to Hill and back again and done an exceptional job with all of them.
GRichie: I see your point. Yes, of course any high level drummer can play various styles, for many different artists. But that doesn't really address my point. The question is, can Vinnie PLAY things like this:
Literally 12 notes per measure or less. And as surprising as it is, Vin just cannot do that. Some of the other names I mentioned could, with their own stamp. But deep simplicity just is not Vinnie's forte.
Hi chevvbboy. I was familiar with that album! I like what Vin does with it, and Bring it on Home stood out, IIRC. But... it does not have that Gadd / Purdie / Katche / Chamberlain laid back feel to it, though some of the songs seem to beg for that. Fine. I'm not here to bash; I got here because I love Vinnie and watch all of his videos. I've just found the "Vinnie can do every single thing better than any other drummer can do any single thing" type mentality a little surprising. That's all.
You are so right. The reality is every .3 secs the guy best at one thing changes. I credit Vinnie for his decision making. To me, his choices appeal to me more often than most drummers that play in several genres and situation.
A Machine, wow!
hartistry1957 18 hours ago
Comment removed
superwobbawobba 2 days ago
you are right sounds like a lot of money, but his china..... man
it`s annoying, sounds like he doesn`t really need it :-D
unbelievable drummer!
staninLE 2 weeks ago 2
This has been flagged as spam show
It's like this: a fan of Vinnie Colaiuta is like someone who can't distinguish Vincent van Gogh from the world's fastest house painter and who replies to your objection that the house painter is nothing but a soulless technician (at best) by saying: "YOU can't paint a house as fast as Vinnie! NO ONE can paint a house as fast as Vinnie (except maybe Buddy Rich, but he's dead!) THAT makes him a better painter than Vincent van Gogh!"
dantean 3 weeks ago
0.40 Bestemmia 3.. 2.. 1..
TheAGNEGNE 1 month ago
Yes!
mcrhythm2 2 months ago
two words: Concact Lens
angelcanoacrecords 2 months ago
Beatin'em like a step child Vinnie!!
CoachG1000 4 months ago
Vinnie seems like he would be in a porno for some reason...
sebz61 5 months ago 2
@sebz61
wut?
Tommybotham 5 months ago
1:32 Vinnie! Awesome
ricocape 6 months ago 2
мочит здесь сильно!
joshuasrule 8 months ago
I met Vinnie once~! Hes a really cool guy. My dad talked to him for like an hour and I gave him a hug. :3
And this happened back stage and a Jazz fest.May I add FREE back stage.
zembuktoo 8 months ago 2
SICK...anyone know who s he playing with?
kallevil 8 months ago
@kallevil its a song by Herbie Hancock, I guess on tour with him !
antonioneill 8 months ago
wish the snare sound would be better...
korn171819 9 months ago
@korn171819 Sounds good to me. Nice reverb actually.
TIMMYDEEZ 8 months ago
his pocket is so deep that he has to make sure his glasses or anything for that matter don't fall in it and get lost for eternity in the void
GarbageDrummer 10 months ago 2
The ULTIMATE groove-meister!!!
jayrobb9 11 months ago
"WHERE "!!! is my glasses???
FrizzyDiouleBiGbonus 11 months ago
That´s groove right there I can tell you!!
neilpeartishero 1 year ago 2
@SoundMusicHey not now, but before 1992 YES! Jeff Porcaro
moparcruisin 1 year ago
I don't believe that there are other musicians with him in this clip...
We are just listening to his imagination while playing this incredible stuff...
;-)
Thank you so much for uploading this piece of excellence..
Priceless!
5*10^6 Stars.
rainbarlow 1 year ago
Whats the name of the song?
C12B 1 year ago
Vinnie is the man...
Savafan313 1 year ago
crazy
hoodie5 1 year ago
Unbelievable!! He is so musical and really digs into the music physically and mentally. A special gift we are witnessing.
jmm3drum 1 year ago
Woooohooooo!
AnonymousCowardX 1 year ago
@SoundMusicHey lets call it.."when you are finally equal";P
MortenBoHansen 1 year ago
some of us craply seers just prefer wearing glasses :)
bumfacefuck 1 year ago
jebac okulary :)
PogoSlaw 1 year ago
The man deservedly makes so much money playing the drums..........why would he or anyone put up with glasses in this day and time. If Lasik is not an option for him, maybe he should check out contacts. The chops are sick by the way! (meaning VC is great!)
chungiemunchin 1 year ago
@chungiemunchin he does wear contacts sometimes, but they probably get uncomfortable with sweat running in your eyes...that's my guess, being a drummer and sometimes wearing contacts.
naedsukram 1 year ago
@naedsukram Well, for sure, glasses or no, lasik or no, Vinnie is one of the greats of all time - yes?
chungiemunchin 1 year ago
fucking groove master
unicursalhex 1 year ago
I've had my glasses fly off while playing live too.....completely annoying when it happens....head bobbing will do that though;-)
DruidTM 1 year ago
All these drum cats need to watch this ! SEE...... NO FILLS ! AND ALL OVER THE PLACE FOR SOLO..... JUST POCKET !
dw9000ss 1 year ago
Where is my glasses???
FrizzyDiouleBiGbonus 1 year ago
What a Professional!
blackl1steddrums 1 year ago
vinnie rockin' the wifebeater and showing what the groove is all about! haha long live vinnie!
kayylowpez 1 year ago
anyone know the song/artist?.
C12B 1 year ago
is it just me or does it look/sound like hes grooving gadd(ish). love that left side snare.
miced 1 year ago 2
his groove is almost as good steve jordans :P
steveyweveh 1 year ago
that is some funny shit......I love how the crowd cheers when he puts his glasses back on!
transmittance 1 year ago
Cara dá gosto de ver, dá gosto!!! O cara numa idade dessa tão moderno! Vinnie é o melhor e DE FATO não tem pra mais ninguém. Ele é viscera, toca curtindo a música, Perfeito!
robsondiem 1 year ago
visceral*
robsondiem 1 year ago
Mano... ki groove é esse!!! espetacular...
iagomagalhaes 1 year ago
That snare sounds great through the PA.
Much luv 4 teh Vinnie!
crazy8sdrums 1 year ago
Look at that china!!! BEEF!!!! he always was a little china happy, but its cool hes the man anyways.
Debonardo 1 year ago
hahaha the goggles!!
tubelux90 1 year ago
that rim shot sounds like a lot of money
olemunati 2 years ago 19
@olemunati hahaha totally
McQuads87 2 years ago
what song is this?
pasmember06 2 years ago
It`s called "When Love Comes To Town"
gongdrum 2 years ago
It's all in the glasses.
7spqr7 2 years ago 5
DAYum that's all I got to say
I feel like enjoying a small serving of good crispy warm chips in a HUGE porcelain bowl, and a bigass long island ice tea
DancingSpiderman 2 years ago 2
@moudiwort & USHOUS I've noticed Vinnie always seems to be messing with his glasses. Amazing that he plays these wild 32nd grooves AND finds a beat to screw with his specs....
jk1802 2 years ago 5
@ushous. I guess he thought so too ;-))
moudiwort 2 years ago
You don't need your glasses, to play drums like this :)
USHOUS 2 years ago 55
@USHOUS
blablabla...
engineman0815 1 year ago
@USHOUS I do. I got pretty bad vision.
setyourselfonfireeee 8 months ago
@setyourselfonfireeee I play with my eyes closed
pballer225 5 months ago
Anybody knows what Hi Hat is He using? Seems to be a K Zildjian 14" but I'm not sure! He often uses it on many records or live situation.. Thanks to all!
pauldrummer77 2 years ago
14" a-customs
Nutsymton 2 years ago
it's not a A Custom... I know how does it sounds! Thanks anyway
pauldrummer77 2 years ago
@pauldrummer77
new beat avedis 14" from zildjian(of course)
and its funny cause he'll use in nearly all situations since its came out !
jazz ,funk , rock ...no matther what ...
funkyfillbeats 4 days ago
Thank God I'm committing suicide the moment 'm dont writing this.
dantean 2 years ago
love the snare pop...
teamsleepnine 2 years ago
really interesting view point of the drummer
phsalmon 2 years ago
It's hard to call rap/hip hop music when its usually computerised drumming and sound effects with a guy/girl talking over it. Most rap I hear doesnt even have good beats these days. The Chronic by Dr. Dre did have some really cool beats though. And how can anyone call vinnies style showing off when the style of music he plays to is all about feeling what do next?
Drunkwraith 2 years ago 4
Has anyone ever thought about just how fucked up the title of a muffin is for such an object.
06livefast 2 years ago
thanx for post!!
oleisss 2 years ago
I just think this is limited mediocre drumming. Chops? Fuck chops. Any good musician should be able to remove the bullshit ego crap and play from the heart. All this stupid drum solo, super fast single stroke double stroke bullshit pisses me off. I want somebody to approach the drums without any pretensions. Somebody that will see the instrument as limitless and not just "drums" "cymbal" Hi Hat". But I'll stop arguing. Good stuff Vinnie you're a good drummer.
Jdubeats 2 years ago
Wow jdubeats if you dont like it then dont listen to it, maybe you should put that passionate energy of yours into something more creative than dissing someone that alot of people love and appreciate.
terreseco 2 years ago
A REAL musician doesn't criticize another, no matter what he plays. A REAL musician listens to anything and everything and isn't biased. A REAL musician appreciates what he hears, even if it comes from a novice.
DMeloMan 2 years ago 2
@DMeloMan .... you are being idealistic . Yes something can be taken from almost anyone ... but more often than not the most valuable thing one can learn , especially from the " novices " you cite , is what NOT to do on the drums .
sweetfly66 2 years ago
@sweetfly66 What the hell do you mean by idealistic?
DMeloMan 2 years ago
this idea you have that a real musician doesnt criticize another no matter what he plays ... that is at best idealistic , at worst ignorant ....if what you say were true then there really would be no difference between me and jo jo mayer ... by your logic we both have an equal amount to offer ... this is simply not true
sweetfly66 2 years ago
Your twisting my words. jo jo mayer plays different than aaron spears, but they don't say that one another sucks. Just because you don't play like jo jo mayer doesn't mean you suck. What if there were only one style of music in the world, wouldn't that suck? if you say you like this style but another person likes another then who's right? Your both people aren't you
DMeloMan 2 years ago
Its not about style and its not about Aaron Spears or Jo Jo Mayer . I was merely making the point that you seem to think all music , however novice ( your word ) it may be has value . I think that is at best idealistic at worst just plain wrong . Can you honestly say you like and appreciate all music ? I can definitely say I DO NOT like most of the music I hear regardless of style , ability , and musical expertise .
sweetfly66 2 years ago
Im a REAL musician and I still pretty much cant stand rap!
jp60476 2 years ago
@jp60476 But you can't tell me you've never played a rap or hip-hop beat in your life though.
DMeloMan 2 years ago
I hear that ... but you know man ... you should check out Jay Z MTV Unplugged .... He has The Roots backing him up ... ? Love on drums ... it is one of the best records I have ever heard .
sweetfly66 2 years ago
dude, get out of the vinnie videos. im sure you've posted a stupid comment on every single one.... get out now?
jwalk90 2 years ago 3
Stop reading my comments and complaining. You sound like a girl I used to talk to online in seventh grade with your awful question mark placements. Quit bitching and leave me alone I'll argue with whoever I want to online.
Jdubeats 2 years ago
was that seventh grade girl also more musically educated than you? i wouldn't doubt it...
jwalk90 2 years ago 3
I know the comment was useless I just wanted to see how people would react. But do check out Jaki Liebezeit he's very good. Similar drumming but a lot more intense.. not to say Vinnie's playing isn't.
Jdubeats 2 years ago
I'm sure (if and when they do) people like Vinnie get a good giggle from reading shit like this...
paulo101 2 years ago 3
Show off crap? It's called chops moron, and any good musician's gotta have 'em! He's been "showing off" longer than you've been alive puke!
5captain 2 years ago
Showoff crap? wtf? Boy you would have a brain hemorrhage if you went to a drum corps show then. Why are all these people so threatened by Vinnie? The guy has some great time but to call him a show off? now that is funny!
flammaster 2 years ago 2
hahaha damn man he grooved so hard his glasses jumped off his face.
amazing sounding china , and drumming too!
TheBlackMonster74 2 years ago 2
jejeje como se le caen los lentes al genio ^^
drummer20 2 years ago
Jaki Liebezeit FTW best groove drummer of all time. Did much more interesting things with the drums in the late sixties way before any of this stupid showoff crap.
Jdubeats 2 years ago
Jdubeat you are truly an idiot.
rudeass 2 years ago 2
THANKS!!!!
Jdubeats 2 years ago
layin it down, plump and juicy. dig that china too.
shadeofgrey07 2 years ago
Vinnie is the man!!!!! What an inspiration he is to all of us drummers. Thank God for having him and hope he continues to play for a long time.
tinodel 2 years ago 5
He's so full of groove it BLEW the glasses off his face!
DAMN!!
elusive1970 2 years ago 77
@elusive1970 hahahaha nice remark there;D haha
MortenBoHansen 1 year ago
@elusive1970 Funniest comment I've ever read on youtube. lol
chillidrum 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Thumbs up if you love Vinnie's playing.
spacitydrummer4JC 2 years ago
Vinnie is here for all us drummers,,,,,,haliluya man.
trendyjon 2 years ago 3
You know you're a groove master when you groove so hard, your glasses fall off your face.
DrumVu 2 years ago 5
GROOVAAAA
groove8groove 2 years ago
Rhythmjet > THANK YOU ! Finally...
YOU ASKED FOR A GROOVE WE GIVE YOU COLAIUTA. What more could you ask ? heavy, like a train, soul, ... A bodily experience of drumming full of invention, untouchable polyrhythm art, heavy, sometimes raw but alway brilliant and breathing naturally. Vinnie Colaiuta is the Everest of drumming and last but not least, a very smart and cool guy... take a bow, please.
parallelpeople 2 years ago 2
the man is a damn metronome with soul
jdjbarnat 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Take out the "with soul" part and I agree completely.
dantean 2 years ago
I just love this man.... he makes all drummers out there so fuckin corny..... cheers fr sweden
ollecarlsson 2 years ago
Who ever would say anything about an artist like this, PLEASE send us a link to your work. I would (along with others) would love to what CRED you would have to even comment about this or any artist at that level. And if you have that kind of chops I would love to applaud you!
PEACE !
Rhythumjet 2 years ago
where was this taken? i went to see the hungarian show in Veszprem. great music, bud it was in a sport hall instead of the castle and the sound was very bad. you had to be right in front of the stage to hear anything... :-(
THIS GUY IS MY ROCKS!!! HAS EVERYTHING WHAT A DRUMMER NEEDS. HE IS CREATIVCE, POWERFUL AND INOVATIVE!
krstnyotec 2 years ago
all hyperbolis superlatives aside. this guy fuckimg rocks. left brain right brain....who cares this guy is drums
goalnick 2 years ago
with glasses or not... is the man!!!! the best drummer of planet
rumbateria 2 years ago
is he actually playing ghost notes with his fingers at 1:46? O.o
calidamagia 2 years ago
Yes he is...!!!
cliffordgeertz861 2 years ago
the glasses!!!!lol
isaacmurillo21 2 years ago
I read somewhere that Vinnie Colaiuta doesn't like it when people video his performances. And now I finally figured out why.....because a bunch of nerds on the internet will either pick it apart with a metronome or masturbate to it with a Modern Drummer in the other hand.
rogerwilco2002 2 years ago 10
Dang, that's hateful, but kind of funny.
DCussen 2 years ago
Exactly!
4limbs 2 years ago
0:40 his glasses fell off. hes amazing
opethbloodbath 2 years ago
Comment removed
AnonymousCowardX 2 years ago
Let's also not confuse absolute time with groove. I just wanted to check the referenced spots. Turns out scottp's observations are incorrect. Yes, it ebbs slighty
Natural time moves anyway. EVERYbody's. Just get some live recordings (w/o click and/or trax) and a click.
I obsessed on time a long time ago and started checking all the 'heavies' playing live. NObody kept it perfectly. Erykah Badu live w/ Poogie feels amazing, but is all over the road! Doesn't matter, though. Groove, pocket, vibe!
vinniefreak 2 years ago
I agree with everything you said. Absolutely. Carlton Barrett = great example. And in the end, it's how the song FEELS... which was my point all along... that, and the over-use of the word "groove."
BTW, I was not obsessing over "tempo." I was pointing out places where the feel suffered, tempo not really being part of that analysis. I love Vinnie, but it's not his feel that I go to him for. It's his unique attitude.
What is feel? Groove? Pocket? All 3 are here: Macy Gray: "Moment to Myself"
scottp118 2 years ago
I hear ya. Again, only referencing time/rhythmic issues that were pointed out in the post. S'all good.
vinniefreak 2 years ago
Thank you, feel and groove are the most important thing!
To make the click groove, thats a whole other thing.You can't play like that live.
romadrummer77 2 years ago
You're missing the point entirely. It's one thing to isolate the drums when someone is following a soloist who may be pushing or pulling. And it's another to do so if they're just playing by themselves unaccompanied. Wouldn't you agree? So "Breakbeats" are way off topic. Either way, to me, the time still feels good in this clip.
4limbs 2 years ago
It does feel great and the syncopation is what is misunderstood, as far as, "hiccups" and such. Know your subdivisions. BTW, I think he was referring to breaks(drum breaks/fills), not breakbeats in the last post. You know, like that sassy Brickhouse intro.
vinniefreak 2 years ago
4limbs, you make a good point. That leads us to: during a solo, who's keeping time, drummer or soloist? My point was that groove can be felt, or missed, w/ drums alone.
I will say, one thing I've noticed about Vinnie in general: he often seems in a hurry to get to the next measure. Not BAD. That contributes to the things I love about his playing: attitude, fearlessness, tenacity, etc.... But his strengths are not the same as other drummers'. Individuals. We'll appreciate each for what they are?
scottp118 2 years ago
The "hiccup" is simply a crash on the 'uh'. It's not a downbeat crash that's early! : ) Seriously, c'mon now...
4:03 is definitely a triplet that's dead on with the click and the very last note he plays is dead on the downbeat w/ the click.
vinniefreak 2 years ago
VinnieFreak said: "the very last note he plays is dead on the downbeat w/ the click." There is no way that is dead on. Put all the audio into a wav file and analyze the pulse w/ Audacity. I just did, and the last note is off.
Anyway, tempo can be perfect but groove lost, no? (Drum machine) I'm not talking about lost tempo; I'm talking about fine tempo w/ fine groove, then one note slightly misplaced, which does stick out and detract from groove.
Oh, add Porcaro + Keltner to my earlier list.
scottp118 2 years ago
Comment removed
vinniefreak 2 years ago
@scottp118 it is dead on the beat. as for the "hiccups" its a swung 16th note feel so thats probably what people are hearing as "off the beat"
irateradio 2 years ago
True, it is absolutely dead on. I think it's the triplet phrasing he does prior to it that probably threw scottp118 off the "click"?
paulo101 2 years ago
Not to get all academic on you, but according to the click, all of the references were incorrect.
:08 is loose but click is solid on 112. 0:30 it actually settles back (not rushes) it naturally works back to 112. THen settles back again at 1:15...while reaching down to pick up his glasses. : )
It doesn't really pick up until a little way into Herbies solo, around 2:30. Everything else has been comfortably hovering 110-112. It settles again when he goes to kick and hats...not rushes.
vinniefreak 2 years ago
OK, so this has been an fun flame session to read. Opinions are opinions and that's all cool. scottp118 referenced many specific spots pointing out Vinnie's questionable time. So, to get the official word on it, I busted out Ableton LIVE and ran the click with it. It mostly hovers between 110 and 112, Herbie getting crazy during his solo and pushing it to almost 116 in a few short spots. High energy baby! Pretty amazing for a big stage, live humans with different tendencies, and no click/trax.
vinniefreak 2 years ago
Comment removed
4limbs 2 years ago
Sorry, but scottp118 is an idiot. You can't possibly get an idea of how "grooving" it is when you're hearing the drums from stage, and everything else from the house. With slapback, and verb, and all that other stuff going on. Not to mention that he's following the push and pull of the soloist. And it still sounds good! I don't mind opinions when they're warranted, but you couldn't fucking carry Vinnie's lunch. And I'm sure you can't play your way out of a wet, perforated paper bag. Clueless!
4limbs 2 years ago
4limbs, nice! I CAN get an idea of a drummer's groove and feel even if he's playing alone, as can anyone w/ experience. When I hear basically 4-on-the-floor with several steady measures but then one place that stutters, that says lots about groove, no? Listen to the transition @ 8 seconds, @ 50 seconds, the rushing @ 1:53, 2:09, 2:59, and 3:50, and the late kick @ 4:03. Listen to the DRUMS and no other instrument, as you advocate. If you don't hear the above, you probably can't groove yourself.
scottp118 2 years ago
I've tried referencing the spots you're referring to, and have no idea what you're talking about. If anythng, you're misinterpreting his "egging" of certain little figures as being mistakes.....these are totally intentional. The "late kick" at 4:03 is a triplet figure against the straight eighth, which gives it some tension. If you're not familiar with certain concepts, I can't really engage in a legitimate argument with you.
4limbs 2 years ago
You're making excuses. There's no triplet figure at the end. He's milliseconds late... but noticeably. And the other spots are "egging"? Even if they all were transitions from verse to chorus, where tempo often rises, why would it come back down after 1 note? It's because 1 note is just a tiny hair soon or late. No crime. We all do it. But let's be honest and admit it detracts from the groove. Close your eyes, play the video, and listen. Those spots jump out as hiccups to any discriminating ear.
scottp118 2 years ago
I think he plays a triplet figure then follows it up with a mixed swung/straight figure. In the case of the final kick, he's just playing slightly ahead of the time with the groove on the aux. snare, so he kind of resets the groove by doing that.
It makes me laugh how some people think he's not acutely aware of what he's doing as he's doing it, he's anticipating all of this stuff and executing it in a way that affirms his masterful sensitivity on the instrument.
paulo101 2 years ago 3
Again, you can't just listen to the drums without relating them to what's going on musically, especially with no click present.
4limbs 2 years ago
4Limbs, last time you said I was letting house sound invalidate my eval of the drum (stage) groove. And now drums shouldn't be examined alone? Which is it? We're not talking pocket ; one must groove first, then nail pocket. So a drummer CAN be isolated and examined for groove. My god, if that weren't the case, why is there consensus about which of those 70's soul and funk drum breaks and intros are so groovy? Those are drums only? And wow, they groove! Google "funky drum beats and breaks." Fun!
scottp118 2 years ago
I will, however, apologize for cursing.
4limbs 2 years ago
4limbs, also, do not try to create a strawman argument by turning this into a me vs. Vinnie thing. No, I can't carry his lunch. Nor have I asked. Of course he's better than me, he's Vinnie! If you'll re-read my posts, you'll see that I said "only" that Vinnie is not in the same league as the true groove and feel drummers of our time. And I'll stick with that. Did you listen to the places I posted? Is my opinion "warranted"? Gee, I hope you'll say yes. Actually, I need no validation by a fanboy.
scottp118 2 years ago
I'm a "fanboy" of anyone who plays with conviction, musicality and balls (Gary Novak is another great example). To say that "Vinnie is not in the same league as the true groove and feel drummers of our time" is quite uninformed. If you listened to the gamut of artists he's played with for the last 30 years, you'd realize what a bold statement that is. I guess he's managed to fool all of them, and the drumming community during that time.
4limbs 2 years ago
4limbs: Is all music intended to be slick, deep, groove and feel music? Of course not. So your statement about him having fooled all those great names is nonsense. I'm sure he gave what they needed. I do love Vinnie overall, but no, he is not in the same "feel" league. Answer honestly: does he groove as deep as Gadd? Purdie? Gadson? Chamberlain? R.Marotta? Katche? Stubblefield? Starkes? Jordan? Zigaboo? Drayton? No informed drummer would answer yes to MAYBE more than 1 or 2 of those.
scottp118 2 years ago
I know what you're trying to say, and clearly there are enough posts on this one page to suggest that a lot people agree with you. Maybe it's the big halls. There was certainly too much two and four without the groove when he was playing with Herbie on tour. And before I get hammered, I am a major Vinnie fan, have seen him live many times, from Zappa in 78 and Joni in 83 onwards. He can do it all. Check out the baked potato clips
NickDuvet 2 years ago
Vinnie plays alot more groove and alot less busyness when he records. That's why he gets so much studio work. Listen to his Steely Dan recording or Dog Eat Dog from Joni Mitchell or his recordings with Faith Hill to name just a few.
To say Vinnie can't be a pocket drummer is uninformed.
This video is a poor one to judge him from. Listen to Panther by Marcus Miller on the Legends of Jazz channel or It's on by George Duke on the same channel.
stretch54 2 years ago
Somehow I've been put in the position of seeming like I'm bashing a man who's one of my top 5!! My fault for throwing myself in....
ALL of this is just my opinion, gentleman, but OTOH I know plenty agree with me, and perhaps even Vin himself (if reading his praise of Porcaro and Gadd's feel is any indication). But I just do not place Vinnie in that top echelon of groove and feel drummers. Feel drummers do what Purdie does in the David Haney vid. VC can groove, just not on that same level.
scottp118 2 years ago
Scott, you're over-playing your hand to suggest he can't groove. If you want to hear Vinnie playing groove music, you can go right back to the Gino Vanelli (Nightwalker) and Lee Ritenour (Portrait) work he did in the 80s. Or his work on Rit's House. There are probably some even better examples, but those are the ones that come to mind.
NickDuvet 2 years ago
Nick: I really hope I didn't say that Vinnie could never groove. I'm simply saying that he is not a natural laid back groove drummer in the same way as some other top-tier greats. That's all! Shouldn't be that controversial, should it?
I'm certainly not uninformed (as someone said), as this is the kind of thing discussed all the time around here. Really, my main point is just this: "Careful! He can't do everything. And some can even do things he can't." Some seem to miss this point, that's all.
scottp118 2 years ago
scottp118- my post about being uniformed wasn't directed at you or anyone in particular, just the general tone of all the posts that are complaining about this awful video.
Yes there are drummers that are particularly good at certain styles, Ala "pretty" Purdie, Porcaro, etc. Vinnie (particularly in the studio) has played much deeper pocket and simpler grooves. I'm just saying this video is a shitty one to comment on at all.
stretch54 2 years ago
0:31 - Son of a gun!
fifrenzyguy34 2 years ago
haha.you are beginner,arent you?
NikeDrums 2 years ago
Nope. Been playing nearly 30 years. What's "beginner" is to assume that one single drummer is so good that he can do everything better than anyone else, that his style completely subsumes all of the other greats. THAT is what I'm cautioning against. I love Vinnie, but let's be real about what each drummer is and is not.
scottp118 2 years ago
Ok. I'm going to get blasted here. So be it. Vinnie is one of my top 5 drummers ever, but... to use the word "groove" to describe this? The word's already greatly overused. The "groove" here is lost not 10 seconds in, literally, and at 28. And the fill at 50 seconds stifles any groove inertia that had built up in the previous measures. As I've said before, Vinnie is one of the true greats, but he just is not a "feel" drummer. Not insulting him. Tony Williams is not Bernard Purdie, either.
scottp118 2 years ago
The groove is not what someone plays, its what they convey. The bass player is holding down stright time, if he wasn't Vinnie would be. He's playing drums this way b/c he's allowed to, not b/c he needs to.
He comes out of his fill/s set-ups 'in the groove', like they never happened, which is hard to do.
generatrix999 2 years ago
To say Vin can't groove is ridiculous. This is not groove music. Did he play this way on any of Sting or Faith Hill's stuff? Any drummer would play this way on this type of music. A drummer on this level can play groovy when needed, & play outside when they needed. When you get to the level of a Colaiuta, Gadd, Purdie, Williams, you can play any style you want pretty well. Vin has went from Zappa to Beck to Sting to Megadeth to Hill and back again and done an exceptional job with all of them.
GaryRichie 2 years ago
GRichie: I see your point. Yes, of course any high level drummer can play various styles, for many different artists. But that doesn't really address my point. The question is, can Vinnie PLAY things like this:
"Bernard Purdie" 2:38 long
"bernard purdie blues" 3:30 long
Literally 12 notes per measure or less. And as surprising as it is, Vin just cannot do that. Some of the other names I mentioned could, with their own stamp. But deep simplicity just is not Vinnie's forte.
scottp118 2 years ago
Vinnie did get really simple on the George Benson/Al Jarreau "Giving It Up" album.
chevbboy 2 years ago
Hi chevvbboy. I was familiar with that album! I like what Vin does with it, and Bring it on Home stood out, IIRC. But... it does not have that Gadd / Purdie / Katche / Chamberlain laid back feel to it, though some of the songs seem to beg for that. Fine. I'm not here to bash; I got here because I love Vinnie and watch all of his videos. I've just found the "Vinnie can do every single thing better than any other drummer can do any single thing" type mentality a little surprising. That's all.
scottp118 2 years ago
You are so right. The reality is every .3 secs the guy best at one thing changes. I credit Vinnie for his decision making. To me, his choices appeal to me more often than most drummers that play in several genres and situation.
chevbboy 2 years ago
Vinnie = amazing musician, cheers for the vid! 5*****
reldditmot 2 years ago
The snares are dynamite...
Astrojens 2 years ago
You have all the sick drummers up their.......but then their is Vinnie!
1luvdrums 2 years ago
geezz. so tight, so groovy.
StromboliKicks 2 years ago
Damn!!!
kirk7524875248 2 years ago
Did you see him lose his glasses!!!!
drumseltzer 2 years ago 6
Groovemaster is an entirely accurate description.
dolenslupus 2 years ago 4
noostrings are you kidding?
Vinnie is one of the greatest. he can play pretty much everything. he's like Gadd...he worships Gadd. he and Weckl
drumbot23 2 years ago