Google Wave: Live collaborative editing

[JustinNeverSayNever7]

I love everything that is live.

[billilene]

if all the conversations between people are stored, we gonna need an unbelievable amount of servers, who need to be working day and night. Machines and machines using electricity for complete unecessary needs in 99,99% of the case! What a waste of energy!

[MrErjavec]

i dont get it

[fthis12345]

so wave is a central location(your email account with google) that one can collaboratively(with peers) edit all forms of common online communications like blogs, twitter, email, im, etc, that correct? If so the idea is that it should reduce the amount of time to updates ones online profile(s) and redundancy as well.

[JacobSijsma]

WOAW ahahhaa did anyone say basic?

This is undoubtedly the most advanced AJAX web application that ever existed.

[capitalsown]

this has so many problems.

[TomithyToo]

Live concurrency rocks, in theory and practice~!

Awesomeness. Thanks for sharing

[googlwave]

И все чет рисуют рисуют...но никуя не понятно

[googlwave]

Позновательно)))

[m1k33113r]

Unfortunately everyone, I'm a part of the wave beta group and I also tested the Gmail beta before it was public and the problem with wave invites is they limit it to 8 people this time as where in gmail you got 50. But trust me everyone, there's still a lot of stuff not available, its very basic right now so youre not missing much dont worry. It wont benefit you much anyway if you don't have anything to use it for lol

[marcelonuncio]

Can someone please invite me to Google wave? I'm waiting for so long. Please I can't wait any more.

[BastianHarren]

Can someone please invite me to Google wave? I'm waiting for so long time and I reallý want to try it!

[solieldete]

i'll invite you. send me a message. i just got invited today. :D

[bath4lambchop]

Is this the same collaborating technology you use for Google Docs?

[trashymachus1]

dang he's cute !

[FaulkieM]

can someone please send me an invite? I've been waiting for so long. thanks!

[direct151]

While messing around in the beta I find in practice it is a little weird. You can see the other person typing in real time. In many cases I do not want to see this. For example, I have backspaced and spell checked a few times while typing this. I don't want everyone to see that happening.

Also, concurrent typing may lead to people talking all at the same time. Similar to walking into a room where everyone is talking to everyone. Leading to an unmanageable conversation.

[MalfC]

you can turn off the live typing feature if you don't want people to see your spelling mistakes

[direct151]

Cool. Thanks. I am having alot of fun playing with the beta.

[DarkGoon3r96]

can u plz giv me the link of the google wave beta!! i cant seem to find it anywhere on google

[tomyloveu]

can u invite me if u can plz?

[Araldia]

IRC has been like that for decades, people talking at the same time, and it does not take long to adapt.

[vahnfish]

@Araldia lol, irc... fail

[Agnitumm]

Were you ever in a MSN group chat? People talk at the same time. Just like when you chat online with one person you can both talk at the same time. Doesn't mean it will happen.

[Camille010790]

do you need simply a gmail account or can you use others like hotmail.

[sjwashere]

Wow that sounds awesome, thanks for explaining the new software.

[dingoguy2000]

this is gonna really eat up the servers resources... are the invitations limited for the same?

[AppsForMacs]

Google Wave invites. Everyone wants them. Well i'm giving away 8 invites on my Channel! :)

Whats to loose?

-Sam

[aphex34]

Ok. Would the server run into lock request/Deadlock situations since so much is happening concurrently? Sorry, my knowledge is limited.

[minimalniemand]

maybe the operations don't get written immediately to the database?!

[strrrangemen]

Is this using Ajax or would google wave need Google Gears to run?

[ikev0423]

I wish we had this back in the Uni long time ago XD

[sgbikiniger]

Somewhere, somebody understood this video. That same person is probably about to execute a plot to take over the world. Or is really high. Or both.

[topperfalkon0]

I understood that. I'm not high either.

Not that difficult to understand really.

[SadSmile87]

probably both haha

[tsl141]

I just spent 3 mins of my life watching a video explain if a client and server wanted to add or delete something they could. Yay...

[dilibau]

that made no sense to me and I really work in the industry... o_O

[psykocowboy]

Now it makes sense.

Now I know where my missing sock went.

[SadSmile87]

Yeah you left them in the server lol

[ih4t3l33t]

lol wut

[diamondtearz]

Wow! As excited as I am about Google wave I almost nodded myself into a subdural hematoma!

[Wildcat320]

they send in the asian to do the equation lol

[dinodinosaur]

im asian but i dont understand what he's saying!

[MrPagalpanchi]

That's coz U R a Dinosuar,Dude!

[capelaez]

You lost me at "david"

this is clearly meant for another audience ....

[termitedidge]

they lost me at "hi"...

[audiopixel]

AAAAAHM... AAAAAHM... AAAAAHM

[hthole]

Why send "Del(B,1)"? "Del(1)" should be enough..

[wog495]

To make sure they don't delete the wrong character since it takes time for the command to sync between the client and server.

[therhodesy]

Because you could do "Del(ABC,1)" or "Del(BC,4)"...

...Yes, if it was to del just 1 character, you could do "Del(1)", but then it becomes inconsistant.

[hthole]

You'd use a range for that case.

[Pachara7]

your geeky

[chrisziz]

I recall ICQ being "live" as such in 1 on 1 communication (havent used it for years so cant speak for current state) but the shift to sending complete messages to each other has really cut back on real time communication, a great analogy in this video. I agree, this is a cool piece of technology, looking forward to it.

[gJonii]

I don't understand, how does the server(or client) know that client had not received the update(server to client) before sending the update(client to server)?

[gJonii]

Oh. It's because clients and server are asymmetrical and other needs to acknowledge the changes as they come.

[somaking]

this guys should have told us to read wikipedia, because that's where he got the example. its a much better explanation there as well.

[rednalbad]

ever thought he'd put it there?

[Prrrrrt]

cool story

[csiegelpq]

PCI Geomatics uses a similar client-server technique for map-based Internet conferencing in its GeoConference product... with the similar capability to go back and look at the course of the conference -- comes from a project we did with a part of Health Canada in a tech research program. [I don't work for PCI but I was part of the company that originally developped the product.

Looking forward to seeing -- and working with -- Gogle maps in Wave.

[go4it7arh]

I already have an account :D

[kobzorz]

how?

[go4it7arh]

there's a magical way you can sign up... i just looked around google until i found it haha

[159aex]

I am looking forward to having Google Wave...

[joseman31]

..............................­.nerd..

[softwareScout]

This is great. Can't wait for it to come out!

[eprints]

This looks very cool as it'll act as a layer for so many different things. I wonder how much this ties in with the tech required to make MMORPGs.

Asking about the *features* of this is a bit like trying to expect the guy doing an early TCP demo to explain how TCP/IP was going to lead to youtube.

It's not about how it's packaged, it's about how it's built. This technique is an underlying communications medium. This is a nerd+whiteboard not a flashy video to impress the masses.

[tumandaporuntubo]

It is interesting that people still worry about how is packaged, rather than focusing on the actual content. Possibly you are working for Microsoft

[cidermonk3y]

Unfortunately Apple are even worse for this, don't get me wrong i love my Mac but i have seen so many glossy presentations that demonstrate the latest 'shiny thing' but only show a few of it's features. Get rid of the fluff and show me what the damn thing can do. If you want to pay for the pretty lights and pictures then so be it, but i'd rather know what it does, have it do it reliably and have it come as cheap as possible in a brown cardboard box anyday

[skyfoxx]

Mac = Phail

[tmedhurst]

Great presentation!

[spacecadet2016]

But is it going to deliver a better gmail document share functionality? The current one is SO clunky.

[JacobP2008]

This email seems more IM based. It's cool having the edit and participants, but addons, instant transmission seems way to IM based.

[uvmedraco]

yes well it supports games doc editing and email and bcus its all live why not use it as an IM is that wrong>?

[monotonespectrum]

yes, you can use it as IM. that was part of the point, by having live conversation, like the guy in the video explains.

[bartolsthoorn]

Hmm I like it but I think this is just simple COMET, not really new at all...

It's cool though.

[unflappableflapper]

you burp a lot.

or was that reflux?

[icfnord]

One word: DUH.

I love how Google takes old concepts and takes credit for creating them (e.g. map reduce, DHT). And all of the Google fan boys go "yea! Google is so smart" when all they did was do the same thing that other people have already been doing for decades.

[imfromthepast]

And what exactly have you done lately?

[icfnord]

>> And what exactly have you done lately?

I'm glad you asked. Would you like me to send you and invite when we go live?

[dupint]

you realize that is not a direct answer to his question

[icfnord]

LOL. It's the best answer I can give under the constraints of our mutal NDA.

[nusnusDS]

You can find a much more detailed google talk on how Operational Transformation works if you search for

"Issues and Experiences in Designing Real-time Collaborative Editing Systems" on Youtube.

[nusnusDS]

Nice!

[snipm4n]

omG !

[bhigr]

Very nice video. Unfortunately, he doesn't really explain the "transformation". He explains the problem but the supposed solution is merely a word. I assume that the client only starts editing from a document that is already synced with the server. The client sends to the server the command and in addition the respective document version. This way the server knows how to interpret the command. Just guessing...

[xxhasudin]

boooooooooorrrrrrrrrrrriiiiiii­iiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnggggggggg­gg

[pravicpu]

I use "talk" command in Linux to have live chat with other users on that server. So no need to wait like the "write" command. cheers

[Sigmarnova]

Yea but can you edit what other people are typing? No. That's how this is different

[pravicpu]

yes, Thats y I like this one

[videoofthemonth]

actually you can, that was shown in the demo at Google I/O

[hirenj]

When you mention that the client is forced to wait for an ACK from the server, does that mean that each edit blocks on a server response, or in the event that you don't get an ACK from the server, do you undo the local operation?

I assume the ACK response is really just the server-transformed operation?

[martintyler]

The explanation isn't that good - in the first example how does the server know whether the client sent the 'insert X at position 3' before or after it got the 'delete position 1' from the server?

I'm guessing some kind of sequence number is sent too

[Techhelpstudio]

fuck bitch vanessaannwolff

[vanessaannwolff]

wtf??

[vanessaannwolff]

well I don't spam okay...

[vanessaannwolff]

I didn't freakin spam okay. so leave me the heck alone!

[venkyg]

David's video inspires us to share notes on how we at 'Samepage' a real-time collaborative productivity tool showcased in 2008 at Techcrunch approached Concurrency and Collaborative Editing. We've notes to share at our blog

[jthatcher79]

Thanks for breaking this down in a way that explains the process flow behind it. The demo that was put on at IO was good for showcasing, but this was nice to see kind of in a basic on code based of what's actually going on... very good video!

[dglass81]

Someone's balding....

[neohubris]

it's sad

[ciocomputer]

Dear friend, this is an important video for me but the audio is very poor. Please replace this video with good quality audio.

thanks in advance.

[dglass81]

turn up your volume jackass

[GuuhCastelline]

/watch?v=1cDhzfeRbFQ

[gatobras]

Hi mr. Sulu of star trek...funny...by by

[uribek]

genius...

[venkyg]

David's video inspires us to share notes on how we at 'Samepage' a real-time collaborative productivity tool showcased in 2008 at Techcrunch approached Concurrency and Collaborative Editing. We've notes to share at blog(dot)samepage(dot)in and also posted a video response you can view. We would like to have some feedback .

Unfortunately, the video owners (google) are yet to accept my video response here.

[theyofactor]

Does anyone have the English

translation for this?

[Ephilei]

I understood fine. We live in the age of globalization. Youn English skills need to understand foreign accents.

[Kevbox2008]

More than one person to work on the same "thing" (document, spreadsheet, etc.) at the same time. I don't see why he had to make it so complicated.

[arunkumarrajamani]

Dude...people opposed when they introduced mass transit system in Europe....it will take time...i see this as a major leap in the way communication is going to happen...see the demo

[Kevbox2008]

I plan on using it when the opportunity comes available. Right now, I just use Google Docs, Calender, Maps, Video, Reader, Gmail, Chrome and a lot of other things "Google" even though I don't always agree with them.

What does this have to do with mass transit??

[arunkumarrajamani]

What i meant about mass transit was , a new concept takes time for people to accept.

[armaan69]

coz its meant not only for jackass consumers like u . . but also businesses who understand everything he sed ... unlike u ... :P

[Kevbox2008]

Oh, you must mean it's for consumers like me who are business owners and actually USE Google Docs and most of the things Google puts out. I think I'm trackin' with ya!! :^)

Why does that make me a jackass?? :^(

[Sigmarnova]

Kevbox. If you don't want to learn about how they do it, then thats cool.

However, I as well as tons of other people wanna know - hence why we watched this vid.

It doesn't make you a jackass for not wanting to know, but your original comment just made u sound dumb.

[drstrangevibes]

dare i say it , but this is pretty useless..... there is a massive assumption that the sum of everyones updates is coherent. This is valid while people update logically distinct sections of a document base, but when there is contextual overlap the sum of everyones updates can be junk, I've failed to see the point of real time updates to shared documents, yes WAVE can see and transform the physical differences, but it cant transform grammar and context.

[Ephilei]

Remember people said the same thing about the Internet?

[davidestundieu]

actually, it see and tranform everything on the context (said google at least). I can't say if it's good right now (nobody can) but it's the goal. To be better than most current corrector that forget to check everything in context.

[notacatchyname]

.......this is open source.

google is not going to take over the world.

[pigsareit]

he says um alot

[ForTehWinz0rz]

GOOGLE IS SKYNET

DONT TAZE ME BRO

[ladyleyleybug]

bwahahah epic! I love terminator salvation <33

[Faze9784]

I'm confused.

[spishak7]

GOOGLE IS SKYNET

DONT TAZE ME BRO

[jim30333]

Very cool. Well said. This is so much better than a live lecture.

[morgler]

I don't get it. What's so new an cool about this? Persistent worlds in computer games have been using this C/S scheme for years!? Did I miss something?

[coryblissitte]

Unfortunately the gaming world adopts technologies much faster than nearly anyone else. Additionally, someone has to have the idea to apply a technology to a problem. There may very well have been hundreds of people over the years who said "I wish I could edit shared documents alongside peers similar to how we fight that dragon in BlahBlah lair on SoAndSo online."

It is new because someone took the time and adapted a technology to fit a problem.

[megabytehl]

I'd tend to agree.

Many of the technologies I grew up using as a kid in the gaming world are suddenly becoming relevant in enterprise type environments.

Look at GPU vs. CPU design. Specifically AMD's hypertransport and Intel's QPI. Both are on a roadmap that's strikingly similar to the evolution that GPU's went through during their ultra high heat single core years. Anyone else notice this?

[ColdZephyr]

Supposedly if server side doesnt require any updates or client then they wont end in same state and wont these redundant transactions on both side increase complexity and cost?

[thalesbui]

wdwddwwd

[nyargalarga]

Huh? What do you mean "doesn't require any updates"? There's updates every time any client does something.

The "redundant transactions" actually reduce some of the cost and complexity because there's a single authoritative document source with a linear order of operations, which you won't have in a peer-to-peer system.

[ColdZephyr]

In a normal sense, ofcourse server side gets client update thats a lame part to discuss :), server provides the updates. With redundancy, the same events, are happening on both sides. If something goes wrong, a single authoritative document would only provide the event description, which in a sense happens nowsdays server transactions. Dont you think ?

[sebassucc]

fuck off, retard

[RaiCoss]

Good explanation.

[JoeCfb]

Great. Thanks for letting everyone know.

[Capilleary]

Dude! Write an IDE in Google Wave! P.L.E.A.S.E. :)

[spider853]

same as Eclipse colab tool

[abittner]

icq and irc never had nor have live typing. in irc at least you need to submit lines with cr/lf to make the client send the message to the server, so it can redistribute your message to your chatpartner for example or to the channel you chat in and so forth. irc isnt live. its message based.

[sillyhead1128]

ICQ did have it in one of its chat features. It was nifty. I used it a lot.

[gbanfalvi]

There is a difference, in ICQ though you could see what the other user was writing, you couldn't edit it.

Here all users have the ability to change the some document without interrupting each others' workflow.

[nmiyasato]

Didn't ICQ have this??

[protocars]

so... like IRC ??

[strawberrydamitajo]

4:14

[liorchait]

interesting stuff!

[TehPantheon]

Hi Google,

I just wanted to write and ask if you could finally become a religion so I could start worshipping you officially please?

You are the one corporation that I trust more than anything, so either become a religion or become a Fembot so I may instead date you.

I love you Google,

Please keep in touch,

Love, Panth.

[jimengland]

This sounds awesome! I'm hoping I get to use it soon

[rubusblessing]

awesome feature ! awesome explanation.. I just figured out why you work for Google ...! GENIUS :-)

[cheekizms]

nice

[xXxallalone1xXx]

awesome!