God exists. And if you think that Mickey Mouse doesn't exist think again, Mickey is more real now than millions that have lived and died in past who are eternally forgotten and even graveless after all these ages.
.
You and I will also be forgotten and nothing will be rest from us. But Mickey Mouse will still be there, more real than you and I.
.
God is not in the same cathegory as M.M. he is real in all ways. Atheist just ain't blessed with withnessing anything substantial in their lives. :(
Through suffering are we sanctified. One wonders if this has something to do with why suffering is so often inflicted on the Jews and, in the example of the Amalekites, by the Jews.
If God was real, actually existing, then he would suck. By being non-existent, an idea, he can be a face of goodness and hope. If God is made real and associated with success, wealth and power (which do not last) then when they are gone, and he remains, at adds betrayal and abandonment, taking away hope. If not for religion - the despair in this scene could be less. If not for religion, the insanity of genocide may have been eluded.
This is total theological and logical absurdity. "God broke His covenant", people who created this junk do not even have a clue of what that covenant was. It's Israel that broke the covenant and God is still faithful to it. Here what it was:
Leviticus 26:14-46, reaffirmed by Jeremiah 9:13-16. Hitler was just a sword that the covenant mentioned from the beginning. But the reason for all Jewish "evils" is repentance, not punishment for punishment sake, and what is it here? The opposite.
"This is total theological and logical absurdity." I think the absurdity lies in the belief in the existence of some superbeing making a deal with a local tribe and requiring them to chop off a piece of their dicks as part of the deal.
@wimsweden as many problems as i have with religion, circumcision is one of the practices im glad they kept. i've got a good looking dick and that's thanks to the snip.
Ask yourself why you think that, and why, in contrast, Europeans think the reverse. In the meantime, you've lost 15 square inches of extremely sensitive sexual tissue which you'll never get to experience. I've seen a grown man cry because he was circumcised late in life for medical reasons and the sexual feeling he experienced was so reduced compared to before.
@wimsweden Technically it does make it easier to clean, then....
I was circumcised (as it was viewed to be cleaner), and sex has always been fine for me, it still feels great. From my understanding all that's removed during circumcision is the skin that covers up the specialized nerve endings. I'm fairly certain circumcision does not cripple a person's penis, which is the message you seem to be conveying.
"Technically it does make it easier to clean, then...." If you cut off an arm, you will technically also win time because you don't have to lift your arm to get to your armpit. A whole half a second per armpit. Let's do it.
"sex has always been fine for me, it still feels great." Because you've never experienced it with foreskin still attached.
"the skin that covers up the specialized nerve endings." That would be false.
@wimsweden And you've never experienced sex without a foreskin either.... Therefore to state one is better than the other doesn't make any sense. All I'm saying is that it really isn't a big deal. I am not scarred for life because of my circumcision. Sex is still very pleasurable, and I have no recollection of the foreskin being removed. I have no regrets. It's really not that big of a deal, there are much worse things in the world to deal with than circumcision.
@XenteMusic Circumcision is Stone-Age bulls... Period. When is humanity going to rise above this biblical, quran, book of the dead, etc. nonsense. It`s not that big of a deal, true. So why do it ?
@ndzoko Well, if circumcision should be eradicated, so should abortion. Killing a baby because a person chose not to use any of the contraceptives available is moronic. You think removing skin from their penis is bad? How about removing their life....
@XenteMusic Any mutilation of the body without any known medical benefit is wrong. Taking a life cannot be compared with circumcision. It is wrong, This said ,note that your creator, creator of all life, is the worst abortionist ever. 4,500,000 stillbirths a year wolrdwide.
@ndzoko Alright, I only brought it up because I know many people who are anti-circumcision but pro-choice (which doesn't make any sense)
That being said, you don't know what you're talking about. How is death the same as abortion? Is God the worst murderer ever considering millions of people die daily? There no logic in that statement.
@XenteMusic I did not compare circumcision with abortion, you did. Yes, if you believe god is the creator of all life, than this creator is responsible for all the destruction of life, which cannot be attributed to human intervention or carelesness . Stillbirths are a perfect exemple.
@ndzoko I never said you did, I was simply pointing out a major flaw in a large portion of Atheist's logic. And your reasoning in regards to God is wrong, for numerous reasons depending on how you interpret God's role in the world. God ending life does not end a person's existence, only his humanly life, therefore no wrong is done (one might argue). Another might argue that humans have free will and God is not involved in the creation of life, or removal of life.
@XenteMusic and God is not involved in the creation of life, or removal of life. Yes, that might be true. If there is a god(which I doubt) he is either a desinterested spectator of human misery or worse a sadist, enjoying it. If you earthly father acted like god, people would hang him on the spot. Yet ,you call this heavenly being good and JUST. I repeat , what loving father would allow his INNOCENT children to suffer ?
@XenteMusic Not really, that is a myth perpetrated by the modern pro-circumcision crowd. Circumcision involves a tremendous loss of sensitive tissue in the foreskin, which is precisely why it was so strongly advocated in the puritanical anti-masturbation craze of the mid and late 1800s in the US. Not to mention Maimonides specifically says that is the intended purpose. God did not want any naughty boys among "his people".
@humanistheart I did not get your point. Sorry. God made Himself the King of Israel, after rejection of His reign during the prophet Samuel, in the persenhood of His Son, who was born to the house of David and too was rejected by His people. God is faithful, people are not. The biggest stupidity of this "documentary" is to blame God in the sins of people. The truth is: no matter what people do or say, God always win.
@humanistheart Yahweh broke it, go and look. Broke what? Look where? If you expect a response to a non-sense, you'll have to wait for the response forever. If you do not want to have a decent conversation, then don't. Otherwise, make some sense of your statements.
@Anatoliyjax2 The davidic covenant promises david that Israel and it's throne would be established forever from david onward. Israel fell for well over 2000 years, and today still has no throne. Ergo, it's Yahweh who failed to live up to his word. It's not complicated but if you're too stupid to research that's your issue, don't blame me.
@humanistheart I won't blame you for anything except of being a jerk. If you were at least a little bit respectful, I would gladly discuss with you your concern because you have missed the point with the Davidic covenant, but I somehow feel I will waste my time explaining how God fulfilled His promise in Jesus Christ. Is my feeling wrong?
@Anatoliyjax2 Excuses Excuses. "but I somehow feel I will waste my time explaining how God fulfilled His promise in Jesus Christ. "
Failure. There is a portion of the davidic covenant that is relevant to the messiah, however jesus has nothing to do with that, as he fails every single messianic prophecy. Likewise even if he had been the messiah, that would not change the fact that the other portions of the covenant were still not upheld.
@humanistheart Get some sense, why would I need excuses? You are not being specific so I cannot response to anything. You paint everything with the broad brush leaving no room for discussion. Your concerns can be legitimate and I am ready to research and discuss, but I cannot read your mind. At the same time, you conclusions can be simply resulted by confusion and I may help you here. Be specific and stop playing a professor failing me, it's hideous.
religion is made up by people, god was made up by people, jesus was made up by people and jews were made up by douche bags the end. and everything else of religion is fake.
@MeSezSo You're being an idiot on this video too :P
Jesus was a real person, get over it. You're free to believe he didn't have any powers or anything special about him, though. And the messages of love and peace of religion is fake? The message of hate and intolerance of religion is fake? Your comments don't make any sense, honestly. Your lack of knowledge makes all other Atheists seem the same way.
I can dismiss the Biblical God quite easily, in Genesis, he creates the sun, then creates the stars on a different day. The sun is a star, and it wasn't the first one. This means, the author of Genesis was a fucktard making shit up. Also created plants before the sun, plants cannot exist without the sun.
AIt's easy to dismiss the Biblical deity, bring another one.
@superhamzah85 I'm honestly done with YouTube comments.... but what you said is asinine. I don't take the Old Testament literally, as a matter of fact I believe in the big bang theory. Assuming that all Christians are fundamentalist creationists is ignorant.
@superhamzah85 Right, plants cannot exist without the Sun, not even one day. You can dismiss God or the Bible with science only if you truly believe that science can explain the big picture without which interpretation of its details are subjects to error and if you believe that the Bible is a science book that fall from heaven yesterday to your backyard. Genesis was written some 3.5K years ago to people, who knew no science. It's God's baby talk to humanity. You proved nothing.
@superhamzah85 Do you realize that opinions like this one cannot be taken as nothing more than just an opinion? Those, who wrote the Bible were ignorant men of course, as any human is, you included. We all do not know more than we do. It did not require those men to be omniscient in order to be used by the omniscient God to reveal Himself to humanity. Yes, they did not know about modern science, so what? They knew something more than you do not seem to: personal God.
@XenteMusic You do not need evidence to dismiss something. Do you need evidence to dismiss fairies, unicorns, Zeus, Odin, Ra or the invisible pink unicorn? No. You need evidence to believe. If there was evidence for unicorns, I'd believe in unicorns. If there was evidence for God, I'd believe in God. That is how science works - you start with the null hypothesis and then only add things that there are evidence for. You do not start with belief and only remove it if there is evidence against.
@hihiou0zabimaru Using your logic I can dismiss the fact than every other person on Earth does not think, nor experience conscienceless. Belief is not based on evidence, look up the definition. Hey did you know the being an Atheist does not mean you know everything? There are many things that have no evidence, so should we just group them all together and immediately dismiss them? Tell me, is there any evidence to prove that all matter just created itself?
@XenteMusic When did I say that I think I know everything? It is the opposite - I admit that I don't know. I look at the universe and think "I don't know how all this got here. We have some good ideas, but aren't 100% certain." From that I take that I don't know, but you seem to take that you DO know, that it was God. No, I don't have any evidence that matter just "created itself" -that's why I have no faith in that. Neither do I have faith in Zeus or Thor or unicorns. Do you have faith in them?
@XenteMusic Anyway, why should I look up the definition of belief? I was responding to your comment about "going against science", explaining what science is. Science isn't about faith and belief. In science, if you don't have evidence for something you say "I don't know". If you have evidence for something you say "This seems very likely." You don't say "I don't know how this happened, so I have to assume something without evidence." You keep looking, instead of settling for baseless assumption
You know, this would be a far better world if people started paying attention to the goings-on of reality instead of going "booga booga" at the empty heavens. You do NOT know what happens when you die. NOBODY knows. Get over it.
Wow, this powerful stuff! Even as a rather free-thinking agnostic/vaguely "spiritual" type of person, this resonates with me--Is Existence is a "good" thing or really a pointless horrible nightmare? Is there some kind of "Justice"? If you are the master life is grand,... if you are the slave it sucks, and I guess if you are religious that translates into "God is not with me" or God is on my side" This was Brilliant and very brave!
@inwaco If 99 percent of the atheists you speak to are idiots who are unfamiliar with logical arguments then you must have a very biased sample. Other research has found that the higher the level of education in just about any field (except divinity, of course) the greater likelihood that the person is an atheist. A healthy majority of philosophy professors (experts in logical thinking) are atheists and an even greater percentage of Nobel Prize winning scientists.
@XForceBowhunter I did not comment on the validity of the belief. I presented evidence to contradict a testable statement about Atheists. Research has shown that Atheists generally come to their thoughts about God via an intellectual process (Pasquale 2010; Eller 2010). Therefore Atheists have been found to put a lot of thought into their conclusions.
Actually, not all atheists do the research, lol. And indeed, many atheists, in fact 99% of the ones I talk to on the internet, are idiots, completely unfamiliar with logical arguments, etc. I find a SMALL number of atheists that I would regard as "intellectual" in the most remote sense of the word. Your statement is laughable.
It's funny you should say it - I find that 99% of christians I encounter on the internet are morons. I find a SMALL number of christians that I would regard as "intellectual" in the most remote sense of the word. Your statement is laughable.
I find the various religions of the world to be the most compelling proof that we are just poorly evolved apes under the influence of memes. Memes that we will swallow raw regardless of what they are if we are just taught them early enough.
It's a sad world we live in where tyrant religious leaders push these followings that cause so much hate. Why anyone would want to follow such hateful god is beyond me. Thanks for posting this. Got here from stumble upon :]
@quyiter Tyrant religious leaders? What do we live in the 16 century now? Racism and homophobia has been a bigger cause of hate than religion in recent times (Hitler was anti-religion, so his killing of the Jews was hardly the Jews fault in case you bring that up)
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Jesus is the new covenant but the jews refuse to accept him,GOD IS GOD SO PLEASE DONT COMPARE YOURSELF TO,HIM LEARN TO RESPECT HIM AND YOU MAY LIVE..THE DAYS WHEN JEWS WERE THE CHOSEN ONES ENDED THE DAY JESUS WAS BORN ''For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life JOHN 3:15'',
"Learn to respect him and you may live." If this being exists, why would it automatically deserve respect and why, if not given that respect, would that be a killing offense?
"the days when the Jews were the chosen ones [...]" Why were the Jews ever the chosen ones in your opinion?
"that whosoever believeth in [Jesus] should not perish" What does it mean to "believe in Jesus" and how does that remedy whatever you think needs remedying?
That's pretty stupid. If someone were to present me with compelling evidence that God exists and that I'll burn in Hell for eternity if I don't worship Him ... then OF COURSE I'll worship Him! Frankly, I suspect that you don't understand the concept of eternity. You probably don't understand the concept of suffering either, if you are willing to let your pride force you into eternal torture.
But do you think that you would find heaven to your liking? I mean - sure it might be better than hell from a not-being-tortured-point-of-view...
But seriously. Would you really want to spend time with someone like Saddam, Gaddafi, or God? An eternity even? I have to admit that I find the concept more appalling than hell - if only because I can better imagine it than infinite torture.
Anyway - if God did exist, do you really think he would not see through your false worship?
Compared to eternal torture? Frankly, I would put up with having to be nice to Saddam; or even a Hitler or a Pol Pot or a Stalin. I would get down on my knees and lick their boots clean rather than doom myself to eternal torment. Remember this isn't like any real-life tyrant. There is no chance to assassinate Him, the choice is to degrade yourself and worship him; or disobey and be subjected to unending torment and degradation.
The 'False Worship' argument is slightly stronger. I suppose I would have to hope that God would be willing to accept me worshipping Him out of pure fear; or I would hope that a lifetime of false worship would condition me to eventually accept 'true' worship.
Either way, the alternative (in this scenario, where it's either worship God or go to Hell) is certain eternal damnation; I'd take the chance that God would see through me.
Why would pointlessly resisting God be the moral choice?
The reason why one should resist tyrants is in the hope of one day overthrowing them, or giving comfort to people who will come after you so that they might overthrow them; but that is not an option here, THIS tyrant will never be overthrown. You'd be sacrificing yourself for nothing at all, and I would argue that to do so actually is immoral.
And what makes you think that God wouldn't accept worship out of fear?
I disagree - the reason for resisting tyrants is not necessarily the hope of overthrowing them. It may also be confronting them with their evil ways.
And I hope we can at least agree that doing the dirty work of the dictator is not the moral option - regardless of what punishment the dictator can inflict on you. How does that not also count for God?
My integrity is just about the only thing he can't take away - I'm the only one who can forfeit that. So I choose to oppose the tyrant.
Of course one should resist tyrants, but there is a limit. I would not sacrifice myself just to insult Stalin, for example. That is what you are suggesting: losing everything and damning yourself to an eternity of pain ion the hopes of hurting God's feelings.
Hrm. How about this: you either bow down to God, or he'll throw a random innocent person into Hell. Would you debase yourself to save another? If so, why wouldn't you give yourself the same moral consideration?
A part of your massage didn't appear in my inbox - but it rather strengthens my point.
You ask if I would bow down to god to save another person. And then ask why I would not do it to save myself.
My response to this is that then it would no longer be up to my judgement of my own integrity - but up to what I believed the other person would prefer me doing. So in that case I could no longer morally defend my statement.
But any torture given would still be on God's hands...
(and God could take your integrity eventually - everyone has a breaking point, and you would be going into the hands of very experienced torturers. It might take a week or a year or a thousand years, but eventually you'd be begging to be allowed to worship God, just to make the pain stop)
Anyone can be made to do things under duress. The integrity loss in that case is on the one doing the forcing and not the one being forced.
Like the difference between being forced to kissing someones ass and kissing it willingly.
What you describe there might be loosing my humility and breaking my spirit. But I would still have won. I would have been made to do it, forced to do it. I hope you see the difference because to me it's very clear.
@thrangki YHWH is no comparison to me, i am far better than he is. i have far higher moral standards, I did not kill one human being ever so far. lett alone genocide.
i don't want to learn to respect him, i want to learn how to kill him.
@thrangki thus god is a lier. the god promised that the covenet was eternal. Jesus is not good. and his father is not good. both are liers, and murderes. teaching lies.
XFBHunter: "getting testy now that your ignorance has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt?"
Seeing as u posed this as a question, allow me the pleasure of answering: no :D
And u can claim all u want that you've proven my ignorance etc - however at the end of the day all that u've shown urself to be is a bibull believing, brainwashed christian hypocrite w/ appallingly low morals.
And I base this statement on your approval of the character of a genocidal god, as per the god of the bibull.
If u are going to claim an invisible omnipotent being in charge of everything whose morality is supreme then u will need to present VERIFIABLE EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT YOUR CLAIM that does not rely on your own particular religious text or 'scholars' (wink-wink) from ur own religion.
P.S. 93% of the members of the National Academy of Sciences REJECT the concept of ur god :D
@XForceBowhunter: "Without god there is no ultimate accountability"
U suffer from CONFIRMATION BIAS; u want there to be a god & u argue this from your pulpit of smugness. Everything u claim, so too can some other cult member from some other religion.
Ultimately without the (tall)tale of the bible being confirmed, ur god has no morality therefore u will need to prove the authenticity of the bible w/o resorting to the bible & u will also need to prove the existence of ur god OUTSIDE OF THE BIBLE.
Perhaps you suffer as well, and you don't want there to be a god, lol. You'll have to do much better than that tripe if you want to have a discussion.
Go do some reading by scholars on why they believe the Bible to be legit. Compare and contrast that with scholars who believe it not legit. The information is out there, lol. I take it you're ignorant of most of it.
Yes, what you want is irrelevant. What you've asked for is beyond a 300 character youtube response. Educate yourself, lol.
@XForceBowhunter:"Go do some reading by scholars on why they believe the bible to be legit"
Delicious; this the best u can do? A vague unsubstantiated 'reference' to unnamed scholars, THIS is ur comeback??? And then u cap it all off w/ some dribble about a 300+ char resp...wha?
I can't stop laughing at how pitifully stupid, yet so seemingly (in ur mind) smug u are.
Ever heard of "The buck stops here"?
Until ur god shows up, U are the 1 who has to justify the position that U have laid claim to.
It's all I need to do. Why restate what scholars have written volumes about. Go read it yourself, lol. It cannot be restated in a 300 word YouTube post, and you're an idiot for thinking that it can. So go ahead, claim your pseudo-victory and wallow in ignorance. It's what atheists are mostly good at.
No. U'r not going to BS ur way out of the hole u'v dug. "Why restate what scholars have written volumes about"? Becus u claim that your brutal, genocide & infanticide 'loving' god is moral & if u cud adequately address the 2 points* I raised u wud win this debate which is what a smug (but tragically) dimwitted pip like u lives for.
But u can't, which is why u are left to wallow in impotence :(
It's not BS. Simply because you're ignorant of the entire field of biblical studies doesn't mean you've made any kind of logical point whatsoever.
Your points have been addressed in hundreds if not thousands of books, which you would never read anyway because you prefer your own incredulous position to that of actually doing some research on your own.
@XForceBowhunter's BS excuse 4: “because u're ignorant of the entire field of biblical studies doesn't mean u've made any kind of logical point whatsoever"
Claim whatever u want, claim there's an invisible carpenter-superhero monitoring the thoughts of every human to see if we believe in him, claim there was once a talking donkey & a talking snake, claim u know so much (yet sadly are unable to live up to 1 Peter 3:15)
Just don't expect anything other than ill concealed laughter in response :D
I do know more than you, lol. I just have learned not to cast my pearls before swine, lol (Matthew 7:6). You don't seem honest enough to really have an enjoyable discussion with. You seem like an angry gnu atheist. And, like most gnus, you're impervious to learning.
What exactly would you accept as showing the Bible to be legitimate. Let's start there, because I've had discussions with mental midgets like you before, and it's always a waste of time.
I might suggest you start with some books by Ben Witherington III, John Dominic Crossan or Gerd Ludemann, all of whom find the Bible legitimate, and all of whom are scholars in New Testament studies.
Read that and then come back with your rebuttal. Otherwise, you're wasting my time.
U call me a mental midget yet u fail, miserably, to see the abject failure that is this - your pitiful response which amounts to xians supporting the christian fairytale.
As I've stated & you have proved definitively here; you suffer from confirmation bias & therefore see no problem in the aforementioned even though your position is completely flawed since ANY religious nutter from any religion can claim the same as u: different god, different religious text, different scholars
You're funny. You're also a flaming idiot. Two of the scholars I provided do not believe that Jesus rose from the dead. But you knew that, right? You were aware of that before you opened your idiot mouth and started spouting nonsensical accusations again.
Thanks for completely and utterly marginalizing yourself and proving your idiocy. Now that you've proven you won't even research what little information is given, I'm done here. You're a dishonest individual.
@XForceBowhunter: "Two of the scholars I provided do not believe that jesus rose from the dead"
Guess what u jesus' cock-sucking groveling 1/16th wit, where exactly is it confirmed that the vaudevillian act of disappearing from a cave, of claiming to be dead & then alive again, as per a 2000 yo book written by superstitious science illiterate desert nomads is proof of Universal omnipotence?
Who cares whether they believed this or not u have still FAILED MISERABLY to address these 2 points :D
Wow, getting testy now that your ignorance has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt? You know, I have read Crossan and I've read Ehrman, and I've read Witherington and I've read N.T. Wright, and I've read Craig Blomberg and I've read Ludemann, and I've read Metzger and Russell. All of these are Biblical scholars from both sides of the aisle.
Do you know what this proves? That I'm not a closed minded, ignorant bigot like you are. You're dismissed.
@XForceBowhunter "“All of these are biblical scholars from both sides of the aisle. Do u know what this proves? That Im not a closed minded ignorant bigot..."
Again HILARIOUS. I cudn't have asked for a more contradictory, ludicrous response from some1 who's as obviously mentally challenged as u r.
ALL of these are BIBLICAL scholars... u don’t see a problem w/ this?
Who do u have in the way of an astronomer, cosmologist, biologist or geneticist who can provide evidence for ur god
Let me get this straight - I should take the word of someone who argues solely from personal incredulity and appeal to ridicule, has not studied the Bible, is not familiar with really anyone in the field of Biblical studies (atheist or otherwise), and has trouble forming a formal argument?
As to scientists, you're more than welcome to read John Polkinghorne, Francis Collins, etc. But you won't, because you're a bigot.
And my position is ludicrous? Please stop smoking crack.
@XForceBowhunter: "As to scientists, you're more than welcome to read John Polkinghorne, Francis Collins..."
Polkinghorne the theoretical physicist, THEOLOGIAN & ANGLICAN PRIEST? :D
Francis Collins the geneticist who has been discredited by many of his peers? Collins, who during a debate w/ a fellow biologist said: "god himself does not need an explanation since he is beyond the universe"
Meanwhile 93% of the members of the National Academy of Sciences have REJECTED the concept of your god :D
Ur latest offering: an Anglican Priest & 1 geneticist who's been ridiculed to no end by his peers. Collins; who when pressed for real ans to ?s related to his knowledge of science & how this correlates w/ xianity responded w/ this stinker: "God himself does not need an explanation since he is beyond the universe"
Do u believe in an invisible carpenter-superhero who's in complete control of this Universe?
@atrumira > XFB who said I have "trouble forming a formal argument"
What's the matta? Unhappy that I won't let u pass off a pile of bronze-age BS about a god who it is claimed in a book killed babies & drowned everyone as the ultimate shining example of morality?
MY position is ludicrous???
Do u accept the bible's claim of:
1) a talking snake
2) a talking donkey
3) a rib-woman who ate an instant knowledge producing fruit recommended to her by the talking snake
Well if I chose to smoke crack I might then believe a god who it is claimed in a book; murdered babies, a god who it is claimed in a book; drowned everyone, a god who it is claimed in a book; coerced a father to almost murder his own son as a test, a god who it is claimed in a book; tortures ppl for eternity for the 'crime' of not suspending rational thought in favor of the acceptance of his existence...
Yes, so what? Francis Collins has been discredited? That's bush league. You asked for scientists and I've given you two, against which you've used one argument from incredulity and one lie.
And 70% of doctors, who have more schooling than most PhDs, believe in God. So what? Argumentum ad populum.
You're simply full of logical fallacies. Get back to me once you have a freaking clue.
@XForceBowhunter: "70% of doctors, who have more schooling than most PhDs, believe in god"
Where did u manage to dig up this little nugget?
Perhaps it was on 1 of these DVD's Dr.* Craig hocks to sustained givers (i.e. chumps) or maybe u dug this up from some xian website, in fact I'm certain it was either 1 or the other.
The fact remains, as stated; 93% of the members of the National Academy of Sciences REJECT the concept of UR god.
Also re: logical fallacies, coming from u, that's a hot one :D
Did the holy ghost that currently resides deep inside ur sphincter guide u to type this gem? Is this an eg of what a righteous, scripture obeying xian is all about? Especially matt 7 :D
Sadly though I'm just not feeling the brotherly love.
U are yet another reminder of how christianity is a magnet for pompous dimwitted, gullible cowards & in the end I'd chose hell over sucking jesus' cock next to u for all eternity which wud be HELL :D
But remember one undeniable thing, the total sum of everything a christian can claim that supposedly comes from his god = one book.
A book written by human beings, in the language of human beings, published by human beings. A book made from pulp, ink & glue.
Any supposed creator of this 13.7 bil yr old Universe with 70,000,000,000,000,000,000,000+ planets would surely offer better proof of its existence than a book.
And a book that contains a pile of absurd bullshit at that.
As to feeling the brotherly love, I suppose it's convenient for you that atheists have no moral grounding and aren't constrained by such niceties, as you've aptly proven in 100% of your previous posts.
@XForceBowhunter: "I hope u're a vegetarian, otherwise, you fall in the scum bucket yourself"
What do u not understand from my previous post: "And I eat/hurt neither man nor animal"
Do u comprehend that this equates to being a vegetarian? Just in case u still don't understand, yes I am a vegetarian.
Xians claim it was necessary to sacrifice animals to yahweh. Why? U claim he's in charge of everything, why cause pain or fear to ANY living being if u'r supposed to be perfect & the CREATOR OF ALL.
Also both of ur sci-references PROVIDED NO CONCLUSIVE EVIDENCE for god BECUS THEY HAVE NONE. F. Collin’s stinker again: “god himself does not need an explanation since he is beyond the universe"
This is not an OBSERVATION; it is not DEMONSTRABLE & therefore is not SCIENTICALLY RELEVANT, meaning this is just some1s OPINION.
And if this the best FC can do for all his knowledge then this actually stands as even more damning testimony, a testimony of TOTAL SILENCE against your god.
XFBHunter: “I'm done here. You're a dishonest individual”
So both ciaochowbella & I are dishonest as per your non-judgmental matt 7 assessment as a scripture following christian?
Did the holy spirit guide u to type these words? U know - the spirit of your god who placed his 2 naïve child-adults in a garden & pitted them against a supernatural talking snake… :D
XFB: Because you're ignorant of the entire field of bible studies..."
Actually I have read the bibull (i.e. BIography of BULLshit) & it is becus of this that I am no longer a mindless, self-lobotomized xian sheeplet like u.
However; for the purpose of this debate, which by ur presence u have indicated an interest in participating, u STILL need to:
1) prove the legitimacy of the bible w/o resorting to the bible
2) prove the existence of your god outside of the bible
Lots of societies have social contracts that allow for evil to occur. The Nazis had a social contract to kill Jews, ergo, in your view of things, it was perfectly moral thing to do.
Yet another self-contradictory attempt to ground morals. Societies can and have been wrong, with disastrous effects. You're morals basically evaporate into "do whatever society can be convinced to allow" which is an appeal to consensus fallacy.
Wow you certainly would benefit from a class in logic. IF, as you say, that social contract determines morality, then you then have no system of morality, and no grounds for stating anything is evil, especially the Bible. It boils down to an opinion, and nothing more. As an opinion, there's no reason you should get upset if someone else's differing morals adversely effect you.
I'm not presupposing objective morality here, and your second criticism misses the mark.
The Euthyphro dilemma is a false one. I'm always surprised with the cocky attitude with which atheists present this bad abuse of logic.
God's nature is good. Since he is eternal, he never arbitrarily chose what was good or bad. Since he IS good, there's nothing higher than him that dictates to him what is good or evil. The dilemma is a false one, and misunderstands theodicy by miles.
God exists. And if you think that Mickey Mouse doesn't exist think again, Mickey is more real now than millions that have lived and died in past who are eternally forgotten and even graveless after all these ages.
.
You and I will also be forgotten and nothing will be rest from us. But Mickey Mouse will still be there, more real than you and I.
.
God is not in the same cathegory as M.M. he is real in all ways. Atheist just ain't blessed with withnessing anything substantial in their lives. :(
utvara1 1 day ago
there is no god!!!!
mcmamac 1 week ago
Through suffering are we sanctified. One wonders if this has something to do with why suffering is so often inflicted on the Jews and, in the example of the Amalekites, by the Jews.
benabaxter 1 month ago
youtube.com/watch?v=cctVSei5Nec
Anatoliyjax2 1 month ago
If God was real, actually existing, then he would suck. By being non-existent, an idea, he can be a face of goodness and hope. If God is made real and associated with success, wealth and power (which do not last) then when they are gone, and he remains, at adds betrayal and abandonment, taking away hope. If not for religion - the despair in this scene could be less. If not for religion, the insanity of genocide may have been eluded.
vdizhoor 1 month ago
@Anatoliyjax2 Atheism is nothing more than man acknowledging his natural state of existence before the imposition of man made deities.
pistolpackintim 2 months ago
This scene is so much more powerful when watched in context with the preceding dialogue.
pistolpackintim 2 months ago
its annoying that he keeps over talking/interrupting the people to whom he is asking the questions
syminka 2 months ago
I love this scene
distortion041 2 months ago
This is total theological and logical absurdity. "God broke His covenant", people who created this junk do not even have a clue of what that covenant was. It's Israel that broke the covenant and God is still faithful to it. Here what it was:
Leviticus 26:14-46, reaffirmed by Jeremiah 9:13-16. Hitler was just a sword that the covenant mentioned from the beginning. But the reason for all Jewish "evils" is repentance, not punishment for punishment sake, and what is it here? The opposite.
Anatoliyjax2 3 months ago
@Anatoliyjax2
"This is total theological and logical absurdity." I think the absurdity lies in the belief in the existence of some superbeing making a deal with a local tribe and requiring them to chop off a piece of their dicks as part of the deal.
wimsweden 3 months ago 16
@wimsweden It's not what you think if to really think. It's still absurdity, well, what else to expect from this Atheist propaganda film?
Anatoliyjax2 3 months ago
@wimsweden as many problems as i have with religion, circumcision is one of the practices im glad they kept. i've got a good looking dick and that's thanks to the snip.
uselesstoothlesss 3 months ago
@uselesstoothlesss
"i've got a good looking dick"
Ask yourself why you think that, and why, in contrast, Europeans think the reverse. In the meantime, you've lost 15 square inches of extremely sensitive sexual tissue which you'll never get to experience. I've seen a grown man cry because he was circumcised late in life for medical reasons and the sexual feeling he experienced was so reduced compared to before.
wimsweden 3 months ago 4
@wimsweden Doesn't circumcision make it easier to clean the penis, and also make sex more pleasurable/intense?
XenteMusic 2 months ago
@XenteMusic
"Doesn't circumcision make it easier to clean the penis" No. You pull it back and clean. Takes seconds.
"also make sex more pleasurable/intense?" Circumcised men lost several thousand specialised nerve endings. What do you think?
wimsweden 2 months ago
@wimsweden Technically it does make it easier to clean, then....
I was circumcised (as it was viewed to be cleaner), and sex has always been fine for me, it still feels great. From my understanding all that's removed during circumcision is the skin that covers up the specialized nerve endings. I'm fairly certain circumcision does not cripple a person's penis, which is the message you seem to be conveying.
XenteMusic 2 months ago
@XenteMusic
"Technically it does make it easier to clean, then...." If you cut off an arm, you will technically also win time because you don't have to lift your arm to get to your armpit. A whole half a second per armpit. Let's do it.
"sex has always been fine for me, it still feels great." Because you've never experienced it with foreskin still attached.
"the skin that covers up the specialized nerve endings." That would be false.
Watch "watch?v=e-Lm396q8KA"
wimsweden 2 months ago
@wimsweden And you've never experienced sex without a foreskin either.... Therefore to state one is better than the other doesn't make any sense. All I'm saying is that it really isn't a big deal. I am not scarred for life because of my circumcision. Sex is still very pleasurable, and I have no recollection of the foreskin being removed. I have no regrets. It's really not that big of a deal, there are much worse things in the world to deal with than circumcision.
XenteMusic 2 months ago
@XenteMusic Circumcision is Stone-Age bulls... Period. When is humanity going to rise above this biblical, quran, book of the dead, etc. nonsense. It`s not that big of a deal, true. So why do it ?
ndzoko 1 month ago
@ndzoko Well, if circumcision should be eradicated, so should abortion. Killing a baby because a person chose not to use any of the contraceptives available is moronic. You think removing skin from their penis is bad? How about removing their life....
XenteMusic 1 month ago
@XenteMusic Any mutilation of the body without any known medical benefit is wrong. Taking a life cannot be compared with circumcision. It is wrong, This said ,note that your creator, creator of all life, is the worst abortionist ever. 4,500,000 stillbirths a year wolrdwide.
ndzoko 1 month ago
@ndzoko Alright, I only brought it up because I know many people who are anti-circumcision but pro-choice (which doesn't make any sense)
That being said, you don't know what you're talking about. How is death the same as abortion? Is God the worst murderer ever considering millions of people die daily? There no logic in that statement.
XenteMusic 1 month ago
@XenteMusic I did not compare circumcision with abortion, you did. Yes, if you believe god is the creator of all life, than this creator is responsible for all the destruction of life, which cannot be attributed to human intervention or carelesness . Stillbirths are a perfect exemple.
ndzoko 1 month ago
@ndzoko I never said you did, I was simply pointing out a major flaw in a large portion of Atheist's logic. And your reasoning in regards to God is wrong, for numerous reasons depending on how you interpret God's role in the world. God ending life does not end a person's existence, only his humanly life, therefore no wrong is done (one might argue). Another might argue that humans have free will and God is not involved in the creation of life, or removal of life.
XenteMusic 4 weeks ago
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@XenteMusic and God is not involved in the creation of life, or removal of life. Yes, that might be true. If there is a god(which I doubt) he is either a desinterested spectator of human misery or worse a sadist, enjoying it. If you earthly father acted like god, people would hang him on the spot. Yet ,you call this heavenly being good and JUST. I repeat , what loving father would allow his INNOCENT children to suffer ?
ndzoko 4 weeks ago
@XenteMusic Not really, that is a myth perpetrated by the modern pro-circumcision crowd. Circumcision involves a tremendous loss of sensitive tissue in the foreskin, which is precisely why it was so strongly advocated in the puritanical anti-masturbation craze of the mid and late 1800s in the US. Not to mention Maimonides specifically says that is the intended purpose. God did not want any naughty boys among "his people".
dannytibi 1 month ago
@Anatoliyjax2 you shouldn't take this one scene of the movie as the movie's entire stance. watch it in it's entireity before making these points
maxk322 2 months ago
@Anatoliyjax2 "It's Israel that broke the covenant and God is still faithful to it. Here what it was:"
No in fact, the covenants were broken. Is there a king of Isreal descending from david on the throne of isreal right now? No.
humanistheart 2 months ago
@humanistheart I did not get your point. Sorry. God made Himself the King of Israel, after rejection of His reign during the prophet Samuel, in the persenhood of His Son, who was born to the house of David and too was rejected by His people. God is faithful, people are not. The biggest stupidity of this "documentary" is to blame God in the sins of people. The truth is: no matter what people do or say, God always win.
Anatoliyjax2 2 months ago
@Anatoliyjax2 The point is he broke the davidic covenant.
humanistheart 2 months ago
@humanistheart No, He did not.
Anatoliyjax2 2 months ago
@Anatoliyjax2 Yes, he did.
humanistheart 2 months ago
@humanistheart No, he did not.
Anatoliyjax2 2 months ago
@Anatoliyjax2 Biblically, he did.
humanistheart 2 months ago
@humanistheart Please explain
Anatoliyjax2 2 months ago
@Anatoliyjax2 No, actually, it was Yahweh who broke it. It's all in writing, go look.
humanistheart 2 months ago
@humanistheart Do you have a habit to always leave your comments unfinished? You bored me. I hoped to learn more than mere opinionating.
Anatoliyjax2 2 months ago
@Anatoliyjax2 Pathetic, you don't even have a response.
humanistheart 2 months ago
@humanistheart Response to what? Hold your horses.
Anatoliyjax2 2 months ago
@Anatoliyjax2 Another non-response.
humanistheart 2 months ago
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@humanistheart Response to what?
Anatoliyjax2 2 months ago
@humanistheart Yahweh broke it, go and look. Broke what? Look where? If you expect a response to a non-sense, you'll have to wait for the response forever. If you do not want to have a decent conversation, then don't. Otherwise, make some sense of your statements.
Anatoliyjax2 2 months ago
@Anatoliyjax2 The davidic covenant promises david that Israel and it's throne would be established forever from david onward. Israel fell for well over 2000 years, and today still has no throne. Ergo, it's Yahweh who failed to live up to his word. It's not complicated but if you're too stupid to research that's your issue, don't blame me.
humanistheart 2 months ago
@humanistheart I won't blame you for anything except of being a jerk. If you were at least a little bit respectful, I would gladly discuss with you your concern because you have missed the point with the Davidic covenant, but I somehow feel I will waste my time explaining how God fulfilled His promise in Jesus Christ. Is my feeling wrong?
Anatoliyjax2 2 months ago
@Anatoliyjax2 Excuses Excuses. "but I somehow feel I will waste my time explaining how God fulfilled His promise in Jesus Christ. "
Failure. There is a portion of the davidic covenant that is relevant to the messiah, however jesus has nothing to do with that, as he fails every single messianic prophecy. Likewise even if he had been the messiah, that would not change the fact that the other portions of the covenant were still not upheld.
humanistheart 2 months ago 2
@humanistheart Get some sense, why would I need excuses? You are not being specific so I cannot response to anything. You paint everything with the broad brush leaving no room for discussion. Your concerns can be legitimate and I am ready to research and discuss, but I cannot read your mind. At the same time, you conclusions can be simply resulted by confusion and I may help you here. Be specific and stop playing a professor failing me, it's hideous.
Anatoliyjax2 2 months ago
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MeSezSo 4 months ago
religion is made up by people, god was made up by people, jesus was made up by people and jews were made up by douche bags the end. and everything else of religion is fake.
MeSezSo 4 months ago
@MeSezSo You're being an idiot on this video too :P
Jesus was a real person, get over it. You're free to believe he didn't have any powers or anything special about him, though. And the messages of love and peace of religion is fake? The message of hate and intolerance of religion is fake? Your comments don't make any sense, honestly. Your lack of knowledge makes all other Atheists seem the same way.
XenteMusic 4 months ago
@XenteMusic "Jesus was a real person, get over it."
Check out David Fitzgerald's presentation at Skepticon 3 on 'Examining the existence of a historical Jesus'.
GreyLabyrinthine 3 months ago
@XenteMusic
Luke Skywalker is real to me, but he doesn't exist, get it now?
superhamzah85 3 months ago
@superhamzah85 Idiotic point is idiotic.
XenteMusic 3 months ago
@XenteMusic
What is asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.
superhamzah85 3 months ago
@superhamzah85 That is asinine. What you said goes against science. To dismiss something, you must have evidence.
XenteMusic 3 months ago
@XenteMusic
I can dismiss the Biblical God quite easily, in Genesis, he creates the sun, then creates the stars on a different day. The sun is a star, and it wasn't the first one. This means, the author of Genesis was a fucktard making shit up. Also created plants before the sun, plants cannot exist without the sun.
AIt's easy to dismiss the Biblical deity, bring another one.
superhamzah85 3 months ago
@superhamzah85 I'm honestly done with YouTube comments.... but what you said is asinine. I don't take the Old Testament literally, as a matter of fact I believe in the big bang theory. Assuming that all Christians are fundamentalist creationists is ignorant.
XenteMusic 3 months ago
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superhamzah85 3 months ago
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Don't take it literally then, that's your choice. A Hindu may also not take the Vedas literally, a Muslim may not take the Qur'an literally.
It doesn't help your argument when you say you don't take one book literally.
superhamzah85 3 months ago
@superhamzah85 Right, plants cannot exist without the Sun, not even one day. You can dismiss God or the Bible with science only if you truly believe that science can explain the big picture without which interpretation of its details are subjects to error and if you believe that the Bible is a science book that fall from heaven yesterday to your backyard. Genesis was written some 3.5K years ago to people, who knew no science. It's God's baby talk to humanity. You proved nothing.
Anatoliyjax2 2 months ago
@Anatoliyjax2
No, ignorant men wrote the Bible, that's why it sounds ignorant. Simple really.
superhamzah85 2 months ago
@superhamzah85 Do you realize that opinions like this one cannot be taken as nothing more than just an opinion? Those, who wrote the Bible were ignorant men of course, as any human is, you included. We all do not know more than we do. It did not require those men to be omniscient in order to be used by the omniscient God to reveal Himself to humanity. Yes, they did not know about modern science, so what? They knew something more than you do not seem to: personal God.
Anatoliyjax2 2 months ago
@Anatoliyjax2
They knew nothing.
superhamzah85 2 months ago
@superhamzah85 Nothing? It is absurd. Happy New Year!
Anatoliyjax2 2 months ago
@Anatoliyjax2
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superhamzah85 2 months ago
@superhamzah85 Nothing new.
Anatoliyjax2 2 months ago
@XenteMusic You do not need evidence to dismiss something. Do you need evidence to dismiss fairies, unicorns, Zeus, Odin, Ra or the invisible pink unicorn? No. You need evidence to believe. If there was evidence for unicorns, I'd believe in unicorns. If there was evidence for God, I'd believe in God. That is how science works - you start with the null hypothesis and then only add things that there are evidence for. You do not start with belief and only remove it if there is evidence against.
hihiou0zabimaru 3 months ago
@hihiou0zabimaru Using your logic I can dismiss the fact than every other person on Earth does not think, nor experience conscienceless. Belief is not based on evidence, look up the definition. Hey did you know the being an Atheist does not mean you know everything? There are many things that have no evidence, so should we just group them all together and immediately dismiss them? Tell me, is there any evidence to prove that all matter just created itself?
XenteMusic 3 months ago
@XenteMusic When did I say that I think I know everything? It is the opposite - I admit that I don't know. I look at the universe and think "I don't know how all this got here. We have some good ideas, but aren't 100% certain." From that I take that I don't know, but you seem to take that you DO know, that it was God. No, I don't have any evidence that matter just "created itself" -that's why I have no faith in that. Neither do I have faith in Zeus or Thor or unicorns. Do you have faith in them?
hihiou0zabimaru 3 months ago 2
@XenteMusic Anyway, why should I look up the definition of belief? I was responding to your comment about "going against science", explaining what science is. Science isn't about faith and belief. In science, if you don't have evidence for something you say "I don't know". If you have evidence for something you say "This seems very likely." You don't say "I don't know how this happened, so I have to assume something without evidence." You keep looking, instead of settling for baseless assumption
hihiou0zabimaru 3 months ago 2
@XenteMusic It is insane to believe that science is the pinnacle of all.
Anatoliyjax2 2 months ago
@superhamzah85 And how do you know he is real? You just believe he is?
Anatoliyjax2 2 months ago
@MeSezSo Dah, Atheism is made up by people. That's true.
Anatoliyjax2 2 months ago
You know, this would be a far better world if people started paying attention to the goings-on of reality instead of going "booga booga" at the empty heavens. You do NOT know what happens when you die. NOBODY knows. Get over it.
JeniusRetard 5 months ago
god is a fucking pig
mushroomxxxzzz 6 months ago
Wow, this powerful stuff! Even as a rather free-thinking agnostic/vaguely "spiritual" type of person, this resonates with me--Is Existence is a "good" thing or really a pointless horrible nightmare? Is there some kind of "Justice"? If you are the master life is grand,... if you are the slave it sucks, and I guess if you are religious that translates into "God is not with me" or God is on my side" This was Brilliant and very brave!
justcommenting76 7 months ago
God ain't real, dipshit. Get over it.
chbrules 7 months ago
overactor
WildWe5 7 months ago
@inwaco If 99 percent of the atheists you speak to are idiots who are unfamiliar with logical arguments then you must have a very biased sample. Other research has found that the higher the level of education in just about any field (except divinity, of course) the greater likelihood that the person is an atheist. A healthy majority of philosophy professors (experts in logical thinking) are atheists and an even greater percentage of Nobel Prize winning scientists.
rlwemm 7 months ago
@XForceBowhunter I did not comment on the validity of the belief. I presented evidence to contradict a testable statement about Atheists. Research has shown that Atheists generally come to their thoughts about God via an intellectual process (Pasquale 2010; Eller 2010). Therefore Atheists have been found to put a lot of thought into their conclusions.
alanmegs 8 months ago
@alanmegs
Actually, not all atheists do the research, lol. And indeed, many atheists, in fact 99% of the ones I talk to on the internet, are idiots, completely unfamiliar with logical arguments, etc. I find a SMALL number of atheists that I would regard as "intellectual" in the most remote sense of the word. Your statement is laughable.
jnwaco 8 months ago
@jnwaco Why are you using numbers without any mathematical basis?
HybridD91 8 months ago
@jnwaco 99% of your statistics are made up. You're laughable.
Joegreen29 7 months ago
@jnwaco Youve clearly never heard of atheism.reddit.com
00chicken101 7 months ago
@jnwaco
It's funny you should say it - I find that 99% of christians I encounter on the internet are morons. I find a SMALL number of christians that I would regard as "intellectual" in the most remote sense of the word. Your statement is laughable.
I find the various religions of the world to be the most compelling proof that we are just poorly evolved apes under the influence of memes. Memes that we will swallow raw regardless of what they are if we are just taught them early enough.
itsjustameme 7 months ago 4
@itsjustameme when you exept insanity. you have to defend it with insanity. that is there is no christian that culd view their religion objectily.
gethsoftware 6 months ago
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alanmegs 8 months ago
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Wonderful scene, I really need to see this movie.
TheAncientMariner09 9 months ago
It's a sad world we live in where tyrant religious leaders push these followings that cause so much hate. Why anyone would want to follow such hateful god is beyond me. Thanks for posting this. Got here from stumble upon :]
quyiter 9 months ago 37
@quyiter i subscribe what you said.
TJxPh0bi4 5 months ago
@quyiter Tyrant religious leaders? What do we live in the 16 century now? Racism and homophobia has been a bigger cause of hate than religion in recent times (Hitler was anti-religion, so his killing of the Jews was hardly the Jews fault in case you bring that up)
XenteMusic 4 months ago
@XenteMusic
It all stems from religion my friend. Why are people homophobic in the first place? Because the bible tells them to be.
quyiter 4 months ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Jesus is the new covenant but the jews refuse to accept him,GOD IS GOD SO PLEASE DONT COMPARE YOURSELF TO,HIM LEARN TO RESPECT HIM AND YOU MAY LIVE..THE DAYS WHEN JEWS WERE THE CHOSEN ONES ENDED THE DAY JESUS WAS BORN ''For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life JOHN 3:15'',
thrangki 9 months ago
@thrangki
"Learn to respect him and you may live." If this being exists, why would it automatically deserve respect and why, if not given that respect, would that be a killing offense?
"the days when the Jews were the chosen ones [...]" Why were the Jews ever the chosen ones in your opinion?
"that whosoever believeth in [Jesus] should not perish" What does it mean to "believe in Jesus" and how does that remedy whatever you think needs remedying?
wimsweden 9 months ago 20
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HeyGotJESUS 4 months ago
@thrangki
Such a strange notion of respect you have. Do you also respect mafia bosses? They too have the power to snuff you if you do not.
I say no. If at some point someone does convince me that Yahweh does exist then their job is only half done.
They must also convince me that this God is worthy of worship - that he in spite of the evidence to the contrary is a good God and not an evil God.
I'd rather go to hell eternal, than bend my knee to such a god - I do have morals after all.
itsjustameme 7 months ago 3
@itsjustameme
That's pretty stupid. If someone were to present me with compelling evidence that God exists and that I'll burn in Hell for eternity if I don't worship Him ... then OF COURSE I'll worship Him! Frankly, I suspect that you don't understand the concept of eternity. You probably don't understand the concept of suffering either, if you are willing to let your pride force you into eternal torture.
EvilSoup1 6 months ago
@EvilSoup1
But do you think that you would find heaven to your liking? I mean - sure it might be better than hell from a not-being-tortured-point-of-view...
But seriously. Would you really want to spend time with someone like Saddam, Gaddafi, or God? An eternity even? I have to admit that I find the concept more appalling than hell - if only because I can better imagine it than infinite torture.
Anyway - if God did exist, do you really think he would not see through your false worship?
itsjustameme 6 months ago
@itsjustameme
Compared to eternal torture? Frankly, I would put up with having to be nice to Saddam; or even a Hitler or a Pol Pot or a Stalin. I would get down on my knees and lick their boots clean rather than doom myself to eternal torment. Remember this isn't like any real-life tyrant. There is no chance to assassinate Him, the choice is to degrade yourself and worship him; or disobey and be subjected to unending torment and degradation.
EvilSoup1 6 months ago
@itsjustameme
(Bloody character limit...)
The 'False Worship' argument is slightly stronger. I suppose I would have to hope that God would be willing to accept me worshipping Him out of pure fear; or I would hope that a lifetime of false worship would condition me to eventually accept 'true' worship.
Either way, the alternative (in this scenario, where it's either worship God or go to Hell) is certain eternal damnation; I'd take the chance that God would see through me.
EvilSoup1 6 months ago
@EvilSoup1
And I would find it pointless to pretend to worship God in the hopes that his allknowing and infallible wisdom mistook me for a true believer.
And I would find it deeply immoral to follow such a being.
So for once it would be very easy to make the right and moral choice in a difficult ethical question.
itsjustameme 6 months ago
@itsjustameme
Why would pointlessly resisting God be the moral choice?
The reason why one should resist tyrants is in the hope of one day overthrowing them, or giving comfort to people who will come after you so that they might overthrow them; but that is not an option here, THIS tyrant will never be overthrown. You'd be sacrificing yourself for nothing at all, and I would argue that to do so actually is immoral.
And what makes you think that God wouldn't accept worship out of fear?
EvilSoup1 6 months ago
@EvilSoup1
I disagree - the reason for resisting tyrants is not necessarily the hope of overthrowing them. It may also be confronting them with their evil ways.
And I hope we can at least agree that doing the dirty work of the dictator is not the moral option - regardless of what punishment the dictator can inflict on you. How does that not also count for God?
My integrity is just about the only thing he can't take away - I'm the only one who can forfeit that. So I choose to oppose the tyrant.
itsjustameme 6 months ago
@itsjustameme
Of course one should resist tyrants, but there is a limit. I would not sacrifice myself just to insult Stalin, for example. That is what you are suggesting: losing everything and damning yourself to an eternity of pain ion the hopes of hurting God's feelings.
Hrm. How about this: you either bow down to God, or he'll throw a random innocent person into Hell. Would you debase yourself to save another? If so, why wouldn't you give yourself the same moral consideration?
EvilSoup1 6 months ago
@EvilSoup1
(cont)
A part of your massage didn't appear in my inbox - but it rather strengthens my point.
You ask if I would bow down to god to save another person. And then ask why I would not do it to save myself.
My response to this is that then it would no longer be up to my judgement of my own integrity - but up to what I believed the other person would prefer me doing. So in that case I could no longer morally defend my statement.
But any torture given would still be on God's hands...
itsjustameme 6 months ago
@itsjustameme
(and God could take your integrity eventually - everyone has a breaking point, and you would be going into the hands of very experienced torturers. It might take a week or a year or a thousand years, but eventually you'd be begging to be allowed to worship God, just to make the pain stop)
EvilSoup1 6 months ago
@EvilSoup1
Would that be loosing my integrity then?
Anyone can be made to do things under duress. The integrity loss in that case is on the one doing the forcing and not the one being forced.
Like the difference between being forced to kissing someones ass and kissing it willingly.
What you describe there might be loosing my humility and breaking my spirit. But I would still have won. I would have been made to do it, forced to do it. I hope you see the difference because to me it's very clear.
itsjustameme 6 months ago
@thrangki YHWH is no comparison to me, i am far better than he is. i have far higher moral standards, I did not kill one human being ever so far. lett alone genocide.
i don't want to learn to respect him, i want to learn how to kill him.
Aanthanur 6 months ago
@thrangki thus god is a lier. the god promised that the covenet was eternal. Jesus is not good. and his father is not good. both are liers, and murderes. teaching lies.
gethsoftware 5 months ago
@gethsoftware that right !!death to evil!!
Armendicus 4 months ago
XFBHunter: "All of these are biblical scholars from both sides of the aisle"
What aisle, the church aisle?
Oh but THAT is unbiased... :D
And in reference to all that you've read: "IT'S NOT WHAT YOU KNOW IT'S WHAT YOU CAN PROVE
1) PROVE the legitimacy of the bible without resorting to the bible
2) PROVE the existence of your god outside of the bible
So much for being a real christian who can defend his 'faith' as per 1peter3:15... :D
atrumira 10 months ago
XFBHunter: "getting testy now that your ignorance has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt?"
Seeing as u posed this as a question, allow me the pleasure of answering: no :D
And u can claim all u want that you've proven my ignorance etc - however at the end of the day all that u've shown urself to be is a bibull believing, brainwashed christian hypocrite w/ appallingly low morals.
And I base this statement on your approval of the character of a genocidal god, as per the god of the bibull.
atrumira 10 months ago
XFB: “What exactly would you accept as showing the Bible to be legitimate”
EXTRAORDINARY CLAIMS REQUIRE EXTRAORDINARY EVIDENCE
If u are going to claim an invisible omnipotent being in charge of everything whose morality is supreme then u will need to present VERIFIABLE EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT YOUR CLAIM that does not rely on your own particular religious text or 'scholars' (wink-wink) from ur own religion.
P.S. 93% of the members of the National Academy of Sciences REJECT the concept of ur god :D
atrumira 10 months ago
@XForceBowhunter: "Without god there is no ultimate accountability"
U suffer from CONFIRMATION BIAS; u want there to be a god & u argue this from your pulpit of smugness. Everything u claim, so too can some other cult member from some other religion.
Ultimately without the (tall)tale of the bible being confirmed, ur god has no morality therefore u will need to prove the authenticity of the bible w/o resorting to the bible & u will also need to prove the existence of ur god OUTSIDE OF THE BIBLE.
atrumira 10 months ago
@atrumira
Perhaps you suffer as well, and you don't want there to be a god, lol. You'll have to do much better than that tripe if you want to have a discussion.
XForceBowhunter 10 months ago
@XForceBowhunter: "You'll have to do much better than that tripe if you want to have a discussion"
Actually all I want to do is give you the spanking you so rightly deserve.
However in the end what either you or I want is irrelevant & for you to lay claim to all that you have - you first need to:
1) prove the legitimacy of the bible w/o resorting to the bible
2) prove the existence of your god outside of the bible
What are you waiting for? You "sustained giver" chump you :D
atrumira 10 months ago
@atrumira
That wasn't a spanking.
Go do some reading by scholars on why they believe the Bible to be legit. Compare and contrast that with scholars who believe it not legit. The information is out there, lol. I take it you're ignorant of most of it.
Yes, what you want is irrelevant. What you've asked for is beyond a 300 character youtube response. Educate yourself, lol.
XForceBowhunter 10 months ago
@XForceBowhunter:"Go do some reading by scholars on why they believe the bible to be legit"
Delicious; this the best u can do? A vague unsubstantiated 'reference' to unnamed scholars, THIS is ur comeback??? And then u cap it all off w/ some dribble about a 300+ char resp...wha?
I can't stop laughing at how pitifully stupid, yet so seemingly (in ur mind) smug u are.
Ever heard of "The buck stops here"?
Until ur god shows up, U are the 1 who has to justify the position that U have laid claim to.
atrumira 10 months ago
@atrumira
It's all I need to do. Why restate what scholars have written volumes about. Go read it yourself, lol. It cannot be restated in a 300 word YouTube post, and you're an idiot for thinking that it can. So go ahead, claim your pseudo-victory and wallow in ignorance. It's what atheists are mostly good at.
XForceBowhunter 10 months ago
@XForceBowhunter: "It's all I need to do"
No. U'r not going to BS ur way out of the hole u'v dug. "Why restate what scholars have written volumes about"? Becus u claim that your brutal, genocide & infanticide 'loving' god is moral & if u cud adequately address the 2 points* I raised u wud win this debate which is what a smug (but tragically) dimwitted pip like u lives for.
But u can't, which is why u are left to wallow in impotence :(
* Count or read much? My 2 points = <120 char
atrumira 10 months ago
@atrumira
It's not BS. Simply because you're ignorant of the entire field of biblical studies doesn't mean you've made any kind of logical point whatsoever.
Your points have been addressed in hundreds if not thousands of books, which you would never read anyway because you prefer your own incredulous position to that of actually doing some research on your own.
XForceBowhunter 10 months ago
Comment removed
atrumira 10 months ago
@XForceBowhunter's BS excuse 4: “because u're ignorant of the entire field of biblical studies doesn't mean u've made any kind of logical point whatsoever"
Claim whatever u want, claim there's an invisible carpenter-superhero monitoring the thoughts of every human to see if we believe in him, claim there was once a talking donkey & a talking snake, claim u know so much (yet sadly are unable to live up to 1 Peter 3:15)
Just don't expect anything other than ill concealed laughter in response :D
atrumira 10 months ago
@atrumira
I do know more than you, lol. I just have learned not to cast my pearls before swine, lol (Matthew 7:6). You don't seem honest enough to really have an enjoyable discussion with. You seem like an angry gnu atheist. And, like most gnus, you're impervious to learning.
XForceBowhunter 10 months ago
XForcehunter's bullshit excuses as to why he can't prove the legitimacy of the bible w/o resorting to the bible:
1) "What you've asked for is beyond a 300 character youtube response"
2) "Why restate what scholars have written volumes about"
3) "Go read it yourself, lol. It cannot be restated in a 300 word YouTube post"
Anything else XFB? Like ur mommy told u to take ur ball & come home 'cus the big kids won't play fair?
Poor dimwitted, bibull-believing christian, life's just not fair... :D
atrumira 10 months ago
@atrumira
What exactly would you accept as showing the Bible to be legitimate. Let's start there, because I've had discussions with mental midgets like you before, and it's always a waste of time.
I might suggest you start with some books by Ben Witherington III, John Dominic Crossan or Gerd Ludemann, all of whom find the Bible legitimate, and all of whom are scholars in New Testament studies.
Read that and then come back with your rebuttal. Otherwise, you're wasting my time.
XForceBowhunter 10 months ago
@XForceBowhunter: "I might suggest u start with some books by..."
I'll stop this sham response of urs right there & I'll thank-u for providing more evidence of ur CONFIRMATION BIAS
AFB: "all of whom find the bible legitimate & all of whom are scholars in new testament studies"
Let me see if I have ur pitiful resp right, how do: "scholars in new testament studies"
1) prove the legitimacy of the bible w/o resorting to the bible
2) prove the existence of your god outside of the bible
HILARIOUS :D
atrumira 10 months ago
@atrumira > XFB
U call me a mental midget yet u fail, miserably, to see the abject failure that is this - your pitiful response which amounts to xians supporting the christian fairytale.
As I've stated & you have proved definitively here; you suffer from confirmation bias & therefore see no problem in the aforementioned even though your position is completely flawed since ANY religious nutter from any religion can claim the same as u: different god, different religious text, different scholars
atrumira 10 months ago
@atrumira
You're funny. You're also a flaming idiot. Two of the scholars I provided do not believe that Jesus rose from the dead. But you knew that, right? You were aware of that before you opened your idiot mouth and started spouting nonsensical accusations again.
Thanks for completely and utterly marginalizing yourself and proving your idiocy. Now that you've proven you won't even research what little information is given, I'm done here. You're a dishonest individual.
XForceBowhunter 10 months ago
@XForceBowhunter: "Two of the scholars I provided do not believe that jesus rose from the dead"
Guess what u jesus' cock-sucking groveling 1/16th wit, where exactly is it confirmed that the vaudevillian act of disappearing from a cave, of claiming to be dead & then alive again, as per a 2000 yo book written by superstitious science illiterate desert nomads is proof of Universal omnipotence?
Who cares whether they believed this or not u have still FAILED MISERABLY to address these 2 points :D
atrumira 10 months ago
@atrumira
Wow, getting testy now that your ignorance has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt? You know, I have read Crossan and I've read Ehrman, and I've read Witherington and I've read N.T. Wright, and I've read Craig Blomberg and I've read Ludemann, and I've read Metzger and Russell. All of these are Biblical scholars from both sides of the aisle.
Do you know what this proves? That I'm not a closed minded, ignorant bigot like you are. You're dismissed.
XForceBowhunter 10 months ago
@XForceBowhunter "“All of these are biblical scholars from both sides of the aisle. Do u know what this proves? That Im not a closed minded ignorant bigot..."
Again HILARIOUS. I cudn't have asked for a more contradictory, ludicrous response from some1 who's as obviously mentally challenged as u r.
ALL of these are BIBLICAL scholars... u don’t see a problem w/ this?
Who do u have in the way of an astronomer, cosmologist, biologist or geneticist who can provide evidence for ur god
Good luck :D
atrumira 10 months ago
@atrumira
Let me get this straight - I should take the word of someone who argues solely from personal incredulity and appeal to ridicule, has not studied the Bible, is not familiar with really anyone in the field of Biblical studies (atheist or otherwise), and has trouble forming a formal argument?
As to scientists, you're more than welcome to read John Polkinghorne, Francis Collins, etc. But you won't, because you're a bigot.
And my position is ludicrous? Please stop smoking crack.
XForceBowhunter 10 months ago
@XForceBowhunter: "As to scientists, you're more than welcome to read John Polkinghorne, Francis Collins..."
Polkinghorne the theoretical physicist, THEOLOGIAN & ANGLICAN PRIEST? :D
Francis Collins the geneticist who has been discredited by many of his peers? Collins, who during a debate w/ a fellow biologist said: "god himself does not need an explanation since he is beyond the universe"
Meanwhile 93% of the members of the National Academy of Sciences have REJECTED the concept of your god :D
atrumira 10 months ago
@atrumira > XFB:"my position is ludicrous?"
Ur latest offering: an Anglican Priest & 1 geneticist who's been ridiculed to no end by his peers. Collins; who when pressed for real ans to ?s related to his knowledge of science & how this correlates w/ xianity responded w/ this stinker: "God himself does not need an explanation since he is beyond the universe"
Do u believe in an invisible carpenter-superhero who's in complete control of this Universe?
Too funny, I can't take much more of this :D
atrumira 10 months ago
@atrumira > XFB who said I have "trouble forming a formal argument"
What's the matta? Unhappy that I won't let u pass off a pile of bronze-age BS about a god who it is claimed in a book killed babies & drowned everyone as the ultimate shining example of morality?
MY position is ludicrous???
Do u accept the bible's claim of:
1) a talking snake
2) a talking donkey
3) a rib-woman who ate an instant knowledge producing fruit recommended to her by the talking snake
Stop it I canna' take much more :D
atrumira 10 months ago
@atrumira
XFB: "Please stop smoking crack"
Well if I chose to smoke crack I might then believe a god who it is claimed in a book; murdered babies, a god who it is claimed in a book; drowned everyone, a god who it is claimed in a book; coerced a father to almost murder his own son as a test, a god who it is claimed in a book; tortures ppl for eternity for the 'crime' of not suspending rational thought in favor of the acceptance of his existence...
As the ultimate example of 'morality' :D
atrumira 10 months ago
@atrumira
Yes, so what? Francis Collins has been discredited? That's bush league. You asked for scientists and I've given you two, against which you've used one argument from incredulity and one lie.
And 70% of doctors, who have more schooling than most PhDs, believe in God. So what? Argumentum ad populum.
You're simply full of logical fallacies. Get back to me once you have a freaking clue.
XForceBowhunter 10 months ago
@XForceBowhunter: "70% of doctors, who have more schooling than most PhDs, believe in god"
Where did u manage to dig up this little nugget?
Perhaps it was on 1 of these DVD's Dr.* Craig hocks to sustained givers (i.e. chumps) or maybe u dug this up from some xian website, in fact I'm certain it was either 1 or the other.
The fact remains, as stated; 93% of the members of the National Academy of Sciences REJECT the concept of UR god.
Also re: logical fallacies, coming from u, that's a hot one :D
atrumira 10 months ago
@atrumira > XFB
U want to talk about morality?
Is it moral IN ANY CIRCUMSTANCE to kill babies? Becus the bibull claims ur god did it.
Is it moral IN ANY CIRCUMSTANCE to kill animals for “the pleasing aroma of burnt flesh” Becus the bibull claims ur god did it.
Is it moral IN ANY CIRCUMSTANCE to torture people forever for having not loved u enough. Becus the bibull claims ur god DOES it.
The christian god is not good & might is not always right - FACE reality.
atrumira 10 months ago
@atrumira
Yes, and the fact remains, lol, that it's still an argumentum ad populum - A LOGICAL FALLACY!!!
You are a blabbering fucking idiot.
XForceBowhunter 10 months ago
@XForceBowhunter: "You are a blabbering fucking idiot"
Did the holy ghost that currently resides deep inside ur sphincter guide u to type this gem? Is this an eg of what a righteous, scripture obeying xian is all about? Especially matt 7 :D
Sadly though I'm just not feeling the brotherly love.
U are yet another reminder of how christianity is a magnet for pompous dimwitted, gullible cowards & in the end I'd chose hell over sucking jesus' cock next to u for all eternity which wud be HELL :D
atrumira 10 months ago
@atrumira > XFB
And I find it interesting how u didn't defend* the specifics of what the bibull contains which I noted earlier on. Details such as:
1) a talking snake - u believe in this right? :D
2) a talking donkey - u believe in this right? :D
3) a guy who lived inside a fish - u believe in this this right? :D
4) a rib-woman who ate an instant knowledge producing fruit recommended to her by the aforementioned talking snake - u believe in this right? :D
* Makes perfect sense, pfff... :D
atrumira 10 months ago
@atrumira > XFB
But remember one undeniable thing, the total sum of everything a christian can claim that supposedly comes from his god = one book.
A book written by human beings, in the language of human beings, published by human beings. A book made from pulp, ink & glue.
Any supposed creator of this 13.7 bil yr old Universe with 70,000,000,000,000,000,000,000+ planets would surely offer better proof of its existence than a book.
And a book that contains a pile of absurd bullshit at that.
atrumira 10 months ago
@atrumira
No, that was a sin. I sin quite a bit.
As to feeling the brotherly love, I suppose it's convenient for you that atheists have no moral grounding and aren't constrained by such niceties, as you've aptly proven in 100% of your previous posts.
XForceBowhunter 10 months ago
@XForceBowhunter: "it's convenient for you that atheists have no moral grounding & aren't constrained by such niceties"
Actually I have much higher moral standards than ur god & more than likely, given ur YT ID, u as well.
Here's what evil most definitely is:
Evil = preying on the weak & defenseless like what hunters do - are u a hunter? If u are then u are pure scum
Evil is an absence of empathy, which wud describe the genocidal christian god to a 'T'
And I eat/hurt neither man nor animal.
atrumira 10 months ago
@atrumira
I hope you're a vegetarian, otherwise, you fall in the scum bucket yourself.
XForceBowhunter 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@XForceBowhunter: "I hope u're a vegetarian, otherwise, you fall in the scum bucket yourself"
What do u not understand from my previous post: "And I eat/hurt neither man nor animal"
Do u comprehend that this equates to being a vegetarian? Just in case u still don't understand, yes I am a vegetarian.
Xians claim it was necessary to sacrifice animals to yahweh. Why? U claim he's in charge of everything, why cause pain or fear to ANY living being if u'r supposed to be perfect & the CREATOR OF ALL.
atrumira 10 months ago
@atrumira > XFB
Also both of ur sci-references PROVIDED NO CONCLUSIVE EVIDENCE for god BECUS THEY HAVE NONE. F. Collin’s stinker again: “god himself does not need an explanation since he is beyond the universe"
This is not an OBSERVATION; it is not DEMONSTRABLE & therefore is not SCIENTICALLY RELEVANT, meaning this is just some1s OPINION.
And if this the best FC can do for all his knowledge then this actually stands as even more damning testimony, a testimony of TOTAL SILENCE against your god.
atrumira 10 months ago
Comment removed
atrumira 10 months ago
@atrumira
then we have ur stinker: “it's still an argumentum ad populum - A LOGICAL FALLACY!!”
Pitiful. This this isn’t simply a vote on reality.
It all boils down to: KNOWLEDGE vs SUPERSTITIOUS NONSENSE.
Man's knowledge of this Universe has resulted in NO EVIDENCE FOUND TO SUPPORT THE EXISTENCE OF THE XIAN god.
93% of the members of the National Academy of Sciences vs 1 book written by ANCIENT, SUPERSTITIOUS, SCIENCE-ILLITERATE, DESERT NOMADS.
As for the few left, THEY HAVE ZERO EVIDENCE :D
atrumira 10 months ago
XFBHunter: “I'm done here. You're a dishonest individual”
So both ciaochowbella & I are dishonest as per your non-judgmental matt 7 assessment as a scripture following christian?
Did the holy spirit guide u to type these words? U know - the spirit of your god who placed his 2 naïve child-adults in a garden & pitted them against a supernatural talking snake… :D
Oh but that IS honest… :D
(insert even more ill concealed laughter)
atrumira 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
XFB: Because you're ignorant of the entire field of bible studies..."
Actually I have read the bibull (i.e. BIography of BULLshit) & it is becus of this that I am no longer a mindless, self-lobotomized xian sheeplet like u.
However; for the purpose of this debate, which by ur presence u have indicated an interest in participating, u STILL need to:
1) prove the legitimacy of the bible w/o resorting to the bible
2) prove the existence of your god outside of the bible
Good luck...
atrumira 10 months ago
4 people who think murdering babies, children & women, sacrificing animals, drowning people, genocide & eternal torture is good.
Fuck those 4 people, they are immoral scum.
atrumira 10 months ago
@atrumira XForceBowhunter thinks all those things are just dandy. He thinks the Bible is absolutely right and infallible.
ciaochowbella 10 months ago
Outstanding. Even as an atheist I find that fascinating. ( incredible performance too mind you.)
mokujin25 10 months ago
@wimsweden
Lots of societies have social contracts that allow for evil to occur. The Nazis had a social contract to kill Jews, ergo, in your view of things, it was perfectly moral thing to do.
Yet another self-contradictory attempt to ground morals. Societies can and have been wrong, with disastrous effects. You're morals basically evaporate into "do whatever society can be convinced to allow" which is an appeal to consensus fallacy.
XForceBowhunter 11 months ago
@XForceBowhunter
" The Nazis had a social contract to kill Jews, ergo, in your view of things, it was perfectly moral thing to do."
Wrong, because I'm not part of their social contract.
"Yet another self-contradictory attempt to ground morals." This presupposes the existence of objective morality.
wimsweden 11 months ago
@wimsweden
Wow you certainly would benefit from a class in logic. IF, as you say, that social contract determines morality, then you then have no system of morality, and no grounds for stating anything is evil, especially the Bible. It boils down to an opinion, and nothing more. As an opinion, there's no reason you should get upset if someone else's differing morals adversely effect you.
I'm not presupposing objective morality here, and your second criticism misses the mark.
XForceBowhunter 10 months ago
@wimsweden
The Euthyphro dilemma is a false one. I'm always surprised with the cocky attitude with which atheists present this bad abuse of logic.
God's nature is good. Since he is eternal, he never arbitrarily chose what was good or bad. Since he IS good, there's nothing higher than him that dictates to him what is good or evil. The dilemma is a false one, and misunderstands theodicy by miles.
XForceBowhunter 11 months ago