How To Correctly Interpret God's Word, part 1.1

[StopSpamming1]

So there's a human on this planet who knows what a god is thinking. Grand!

[BBBradH]

A wicked man cannot undestand a good man. He cannot understand how he feels or thinks about things. He simply cannot relate. The more we trust Jesus by doing what he says the more we will understand how he thinks and feels about things. Character is the key to understanding; hermeneutics is important, but not as important as character. If Hitler followed the correct hermeneutical procedure would he rightly understand the Bible? No. "Justice" by George MacDonald. Godliness is the opener of eyes.

[lawgraceway]

@BBBradH I would agree with you so far as to say that it is the Holy Spirit who enables us to understand the Scriptures, but I wholeheartedly disagree when you say that our character, our obedience and trust of Jesus are what enable us to understand the Scriptures. God is the one who opens our eyes to the truth of the Scriptures, through which He creates faith in us that leads us to a knowledge of the truth. Our obedience is a fruit of that faith, not the other way around.

[BBBradH]

@lawgraceway Trust (faith) always leads to belief, when the one you are trusting is faithful and true. Holding the right beliefs about God is not faith, trusting that he will do what he says and trusting him enough to do what he asks is faith. Beliefs about, neither save or condemn. Only belief in saves. Holding the correct theory about the atonement saves no one. Take C.S. Lewis' advice, read "Unspoken Sermons."

[lawgraceway]

@BBBradH There should be no distinction made between "belief about" and "belief in." They are one and the same! This is nothing more than playing and toying with words to twist about the meanings and make of them what we like so they better fit our preconceived ideas and so we don't have to acknowledge the truth. I won't have it. To believe IN Christ is to also believe all the things that He has revealed ABOUT Himself, including his atonement for sinners such as I, and such as you.

[BBBradH]

@lawgraceway I assure you, Satan holds many right beliefs "about" God, but does not believe in him. There is a big difference between holding beliefs about someone and believing in them.

[lawgraceway]

@BBBradH I quite agree that Satan believes, as the apostle James said, "Even the demons believe—and shudder!" (James 2:19). But there is no distinction made between whether Satan believes "in" or "about" God; only that the demons "believe." But this is rather useless, comparing Satan to us, for we all know that Satan, not being a human, is outside of God's plan of salvation by default. Even though he would believe it would profit him not, and therefore he has reason to shudder.

[lawgraceway]

@BBBradH Genesis, the Garden, the Fall into Sin: God promised to send a deliverer, the seed of woman, who's heal would be bitten but who would crush the head of the serpent. Thus, Satan may believe with ALL his little mind and heart in God, but it only does him worse the more he believes for the promise for him is not one of hope, but of doom. Although we have the same exact promise, fulfilled in Christ, we have nothing to fear of it for it is to us a promise of hope if we believe.

[lawgraceway]

@BBBradH I simply can't see any difference in belief "about" or belief "in." Perhaps you could flesh it out for me and explain what you see as a difference between the two? I see only one distinction to be made: Belief and unbelief (or incorrect belief which I would still call unbelief). Believe what Jesus revealed and you are saved. Do not believe and you are condemned. No need to convolute and confuse the issue by trying to make unclear distinctions where God has not made any in His Word.

[lawgraceway]

None are righteous, neither do they understand, nor do they seek after God (Rom 3:9-20). Therefore, if we are initially incapable of obedience, and since it is impossible to obey God and please him without faith (Heb 11:6) which only comes by hearing the words of Christ (Rom 10:17), then how is anyone to understand anything in Scripture at all since you say obedience is required to understand? It is the Holy Spirit Who guides us into understanding, not our own effort or self-righteousness.

[BBBradH]

@lawgraceway Faith does not have to be perfect to be accepted by God. Like Abraham, if we exercise faith in God our faith will be counted to us as righteous (not the faith of another). "...faith is only real when there is obedience, never without it, and faith only becomes faith in the act of obedience" ("The Cost of Discipleship," Dietrich Bonhoeffer). And who does he give his Holy Spirit to? Acts 5:32. We are saved by faith, but what the modern Church calls faith is not faith.

[lawgraceway]

@BBBradH I think we have a contradiction between what Bonhoeffer said and what the Apostle Paul said in Ephesians 2:8-10. Notice that faith is present in the sentence, yet it is said to be WITHOUT works. So, therefore, we are seeing a REAL faith that comes before obedience (i.e., works). To say that faith only becomes faith in the act of obedience is to contradict that there can be saving faith that is not of our own doing and not a result of works. We need to test everything against Scripture.

[lawgraceway]

@BBBradH RE: Acts 5:32. I have a hard time taking this as literally meaning that God only gives the Holy Spirit to those who obey Him, not before and not to any others without prior obedience. For one reason, there are many verses that would stand in contradiction to this, such as Galations 3:2, "Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith?" Possibly a better way to understand this is in light of the Law of Liberty, or Law of Faith.

[lawgraceway]

@BBBradH If we were to read the obedience spoken of in Acts 5:32 as the implied obedience of those who are under the law of faith (Paul's wording), or the law of liberty (as James calls it), that is, the imputed obedience of Christ, by God's grace, through faith which God gifts to us (Rom 10:17; Eph 2:8-9; 1 Cor 12:9) then it would not contradict such passages as Gal 3:2. We could then rightly divide and understand, with the Holy Spirit's help, these two verses that seem to be in tension.

[lawgraceway]

@BBBradH This is the imputed obedience implied in those under the law of faith.

Philippians 3:8-9 "Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ 9and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith—"

[lawgraceway]

@BBBradH Galatians 3:2-14

[lawgraceway]

@BBBradH George MacDonald denied penal substitutionary atonement which is clearly taught in Scripture, denied the Biblical doctrine of hell as a place of eternal punishment for sinners and tuaght a form of universal reconciliation or salvation. He was a heretic and false teacher; not someone I would I would recommend listening to and believing unless you want to go to hell. He taught contrary to Jesus. When he rises from the dead, I may consider what he said, but for now I'm going with Jesus.

[BBBradH]

@lawgraceway So godliness is not the opener of eyes? He was C.S. Lewis' favourite author and Lewis himself encouraged others to read "Unspoken Sermons." The innocent choosing to die for the guilty is supported by scripture, but a judge accepting the death of the innocent in place of the guilty? God is clear about that (Exod 23:7). "Strange that in a Christian land it should need to be said, that to punish the innocent and let the guilty go free is unjust!" "Justice".

[lawgraceway]

@BBBradH Perhaps George should have stuck to writing fairytales and fantasy novels. He really did quite poorly in the theological department. I'd give him an 'H' for Heretic, and I really could care less what C.S. Lewis thought of the man's writings; I'm only concerned with how his writing lines up with the word of God. It doesn't, and so therefore we have a problem. He denied clear, biblical doctrine. What else can I say?

[Bergkristall]

Cool, thank you for this teaching!