Richard Dawkins: Lecture 5. The genesis of purpose (6 of 6)

[helpvidz]

Just beautiful!

[HenryNavarre]

Alistair!! Yea!!

[maestbobo]

3:00

I can hear creationists cringing.

[ManDudeYeah]

lol they cringe just when they hear the word "science."

[EclecticSceptic]

Haha that was good

[irishpaisa]

science is our intellectual savior. What we do with it, will have a lot to do with the outcome of our existence. We should respect and embrace science. It is a powerful ideology borne out of the cumulative curiosity of the human mind. But as with anything, buyer beware!! Powerful tools in the hands of selfish primates can be as bad as good.

[ashburnhouse]

Most of my friends are anti-science. They believe in astrology, and power crystal, and yet they are educated. I feel so alone knowing that there is more gravitational pull on them as I type than any planet.

[hardsofty123]

In regards to us being brainwashed, well i don't think so. most people that go on to university lv edu. learn to think critically and overlook the bias in the media, and understand the intentions of news corps. who are backed by ppl who support certain PTs. Anyways, we make our beliefs based on evidence, and we try to gather as much we can from both sides, and base our conclusions on that. but conclusions should never be definite, and should always b open to refutation, they should beg it!

[lord69z]

here here!

[teamhex]

"we make our beliefs based on evidence"

Sorry, but the sad thing is people don't do that, and not only that. The news media and corps get away with brainwashing and scaring people.

[hardsofty123]

Thanks for the videos btw, you are truely in pursuit of advancing this knowledge by the best possible means. But you must not simply look at the histories of states and gov./econs. A thorough understanding of the acutal economics and policies will lead you to conclude that commumism(wether it b marxism/leninism/moaism)is not the end all. Though capitalism itself is not as well. A socialist democracy w/ free enterprise (like canada)imo is on the right track 2the ideal society humans wish2live in.

[DrMontague]

1. Just as Dawkins's sees creationists and others as falling outside of reason and science, it is possible for me to see people like Dawkins falling outside of reason and science. Capitalism is the exploitation of labour for profit. Fot the West to live comfortably then others must be extremely exploited i.e. sweat shops of the third world. Of course many keep arguing that if we wait every one will eventually get a reasonable living standard. In the mean time millions live in extreme poverty.

[DrMontague]

2. We are brainwashed by the media in to thinking poverty is caused by natural causes. e.g. failed crops, drought. The they tell us solution is charity, i.e. humans doing the most pathetic things to raise money e.g.dressing up as teddy bears and shaking a charity box, red nose day, sport aide, children in need. Watch your TV and keep track of what pathetic things people will do to raise money for charity. Imagine how ridiculous this would appear to advanced aliens!

[hardsofty123]

I couldnt agree with you more, charity is bullshit. NGOs come to disaster sturck states with tons of money, and they 'rebuild'... pushing the cost of raw materials through the roof, they bid on what sites they wish to reconstruct (school = good image, which = more donations') of course it does help.. but there are more appropriate ways, like micro loans to businesses, but thats usually not enough. And when u start givin money away, the question of accountability/credibility arises with the taker

[DrMontague]

3. The politicians etc tell us in time the developing world will catch up. They should really say the 'exploited' world. The politicians are keen to tell us that oil prices, food prices etc are all rising because of a shortage of natural resources. This is blatant lying. There is NO shortage. Arguing shortage allows politicians deflect people attention away from the true nature of the problem i.e. the capitalist economy, the exploitation of labour for profit.

[hardsofty123]

3.. you are wrong, the fact is that Demand causes the price of oil to go up (china india as well as US demanding it much more now then in the previous decade) Also investor confidence is to blame, causes inflated prices that dont reflect the real situation of supply/demand. As for food, its diff. for diff. kinds, meat is in more demand now (increased incomes in china=they want meat, more meat need more cows so need more grains to feedcow) some crops require price ceilings so that r worth growing

[DrMontague]

The oil states are keeping production low to keep oil prices high! This effects the prices all aspects of production including farming. People are turning to bio fuel. This takes up valuable farm land. Farmers want money and they will grow whatever gives them a good profit. This over crowded world (i.e. too many people)argument has been going on sinse the time of Malthus. It is bull shit, this argument is used to deflect people's attention away from the true cause of our problems i.e exploition

[hardsofty123]

Yes, oil states in mideast form cartels, lowering production to capture more profit, [they realize oil is worth a lot more then wut ppl make it out to b) but as gametheory dictates, they got their own problems w/ trying to monopolize using cartels. The fact is,cartels are not a completely free market way of distribution, its something more of a systematic (dare i say communist!) way of doing things. its not the most efficient way.

[hardsofty123]

In regards to malthus debate or w/e, that is not my position. I hold that China/india for the most part are now much more industrialized, (they got a middle class now, a BIG middle class) and wut do middle class ppl want? cars, so they can go to work in the factories ( which require tons of oil for various things, including trucks to transport materials/goods)labour exploitation can only occur if the gov't allows it, thus it is up to the gov. of the state to regulate it.This must be understood.

[hardsofty123]

exploitation is rarely a gov't policy. But what actually happens is that the state is unfit to regulate it, (they dont have enough resources, like in china's case) officially, china is against this stuff, they are indeed the PRC, but it happens, cuz of greedy ppl, and ppl willing to work, cuz of their present situations, which in PRC are not very good if u go into rural regions.

[hardsofty123]

communism has also exploited people in the past, and conintues to do so today, by censorship and restricting travel, they keep ppl within their borders by telling them 'things are getting better.' By 'West' i assume you refer 2 Multi National corps, a product of capitalism yes, but not a direct product of western gov'ts. 2day, capitalistic Democracies for the most part would not allow such practises, yet certain states, like a socialist dictatorship might turn a blind eye to it if it helps dev.

[DrMontague]

This is not communism it is TOTALITARIANISM.

I'll private message you later. Comment box are crap for serious debate.

[hardsofty123]

you to get more utility for the price of the product. Communism is necessary for the developement of certain 3rd world countries, but eventually that system cannot sustain, or will sustain very poorly the country in question. Indeed, a mixture of the two is the ideal form, but it must take into account the states history/culture/demographics etc for it to be implemented properly. Globalization and specialization of item production are the best ways for states to develop a strong competible econ.

[hardsofty123]

Capitalism creates efficiencies within the economy, although true communism is a delightful though, it simply can't compete with capitalism. There is no motivation for improvement (competition). And not all capitalist industries 'exploit' labour, although in the past it was the case, today the big 3 car makers have unions, which more or less exploit the company imo. i work at 1. I used to be a communist such as yourself Dr.M, but after researching the economics, capitalism allows...

[Myndir]

Dawkins says that no-one had an idea of evolution before Darwin, which is only mostly true. The Greek Anaximander argued that all humans evolved out of a process of evolution from fish.

He also worked out that the universe was both boundless but always growing, that the universe was not created by a sentient creature and that water is the key element of life. Then again, he also argued that eclipses are caused by blockages, so he didn't get it all right. Still a smart bloke though.

[imabeastnimadawg]

Look it's a young Alister McGrath before he became engulfed with jealousy of Dawkins Brain.

[imabeastnimadawg]

I would defiantly dissent from your opinion that children of today wouldnt understand this. I am quite sure that the vast vast majority of children born are more than capable of understanding this... in fact able to understand and then expand upon it. It is only that there is a strong resistance from religious communities (likely due to a resistance from religious hierarchy for fear of losing their power) that they are inhibited from doing so. The question is how to remove this hinderance.

[tomwash1]

I wonder if kids today could understand this? Doubt it.

[dale22x]

whats,..that song they have at the end....i love it...

thanks again for uploading these

[Djsouthpaw1987]

what i belive we should be looking for is a Balance between the Conservative and the Liberal point of views

for instance, making everything owned by the state = bad

making everything, or most things including healthcare and Schools by company's to make money instead of being regulated and run by the State = also bad

[DrMontague]

1. The problems is that there isn't really a balance! Capitalism is simply a profit motivated sytem fueled by exploiting human labour. Not only to make profit to to continually increase profit. Under true communism every individual reaps the reward of their labour. We would therefore be co-operating with each other rather than competing with each other.

[DrMontague]

2. If notion of working hard (e.g. say in a factory)is supposedly to guarantee an individual wealth and wellbeing then the people who work in the sweatshops of third world countries should be mega rich!

[Tarhini]

great vid, thanks for uploading

[Djsouthpaw1987]

Drmontague the problem is that Most version of communism don't work in practice?. i might be wrong, and Cuba would be a good example of me being wrong. but DDR is a good example of how i am right. And the Human nature makes Abolishing currency an absurd idea.

[Andyilmatto]

Honestly the situation in the USA quite scares me. What I can say for sure is that in Italy (where I live) the power of the Catholic Church and of the various religious groups is incredible; also, just like in the USA, even left wing politicians, who are supposed to defend secularism, bend before the power of religion not to lose votes and not a single one of them declares himself atheist or agnostic. Anyway I guess this is quite an exception in Europe (or at least I hope so).

[DrMontague]

They will not close down the university biology departments or make biology departments teach creationism. The State is too powerful. Ban the teaching of evolutionary theory and capitalism would suffer. It's a big game. I'll put a pretend bet on with you, I bet in 20 years or even thirty years time the university biology departments will still be open and teaching evolutionary theory. They will not be teaching creationism.

[DrMontague]

Let me put it another way. When you go out socialising do your mates even talk about evolutionary biology or argue a case for banning it. Do they all go around shouting close all the science departments that have anything to do with evolutionary biology? Even the religious people I know don't give a shit and they are nothing people anyway. The media loves to to put the terror of nightmares in your head.

[DrMontague]

People were more religious people 50 to 80 years ago. They couldn't ban evolutionary theory. They have even less chance now. Consumerism is the new religion.

[Andyilmatto]

Thanks DrMontague to share these beutiful lectures.

I agree with chanjl41 when he says that of all 5 lectures this is the most chilling one. In my opinion I think that, if religion is not taking over yet, it COULD be taking over in the near future. It may be improbable, but I consider that a possibility anyway: brainwashing and control of the masses could take us back to the Dark Ages. But maybe I've read too many times Orwell's 1984...

[DrMontague]

This is where I think Dawkins goes over the top. He himself has become an unknowing victim of a mind virus. All this hysteria that the world is going to be taken over by religious fundamentalism is bollocks. You cannot turn the clock back, it would be like asking an adult to become a child again.

[DrMontague]

Out gutter press newspapers are full of scare mongering. Science is in a stronger position than it has ever been in the history of mankind. In the UK there used to be churches on every street corner, they are now turned into restaurants, pubs and Bistros. Dawkins is truly a great educator but a profit of gloom and doom as regards religious fundamentalism.

[Anarkokommunist]

Thanks for uploading the videos!!!=D

Darwinists in all counties unite, and destroy the conservative virus "religion"!^^

[DrMontague]

in praise of communism.

Anyone can understand it. It's easy. You're not an exploiter, so you can grasp it. It's a good thing for you, find out more about it. The stupid call it stupid and the squalid call it squalid. It's against squalor and against stupidity. The exploiters call it a crime but we know: It is the end of crime It is not madness, but the end of madness. It is not the riddle but the solution. It is the simplest thing so hard to achieve.

Bertolt Brecht.

[chanjl41]

Of all 5 lectures I would have to say this is the most chilling one. Dawkins have given us so many different ways us as humans could really screw up (and in some sense certain people already are in the process of doing so). I really hope that just like evolution we can get the few successful ways to ensure survival.

I'm not too sure if I'll get nightmares about this.

[DrMontague]

The end is nigh. I wouldn't have nightmares. People have been saying 'the end is nigh' for centuries.Even Dawkins makes a meal of it. Science is winning the battle of minds. All this talk that religious fundamentalism is going to take over the world is really nothing but scare mongering. Even Dawkins is deluded in this

[DrMontague]

Science is a stronger position then it has ever been in history. You simply cannot turn back the clock.

[chanjl41]

I really hope that I can believe that. There's just 2 problems with it, one is the intolerance of Science in the Middle East, the other is only a slightly smaller intolerance of Science in America. What if they come up with something like terrorism against Science?

[DrMontague]

That would require the collapse of capitalist economics and a return to a feudal (land) economy. It would be like asking an adult to return to childhood. All countries have to go through capitalism or die.

[DrMontague]

Middle Eastern countries would die without capitalism. There would be no need for oil. Their economy would collapse. People can not turn their backs on science. Even Middle Eastern people cannot do without their microwaves. Believe me it's the propaganda media put these nightmares into your head.

[DrMontague]

Even Dawkins is taken in by the capitalist media scare mongering. Marx argued that capitalism would eventually create its own grave diggers. However this collapse would lead to a revolution by the workers and to the birth of a TRUE communist world based on rationality and science. Everyone will be wealthy as there will be no poverty. No need for terrorism etc.

[PolarisCZ]

Communism is same delusion like religion (btw Dawkins dislike leftwing thinkers). What world needs is freedom of thought, no matter what economic system it will use.

Anyway, thanks for this amazing video.

[DrMontague]

You think this Because Dawkins and yourself are brainwashed by this powerful virus of the mind. Dawkins calls others deluded while he is deluded himself. I don't argue his views on evolution are wrong but he's been indoctrinated by capitalism to hate communism. Dawkins and yourself have clearly not understood what true communism,  therefore in this respect have no more intellect then a creationist who is brainwashed.

[DrMontague]

Marx called it 'false class consciousness'

[mindvirus88]

Let's look at the evidence. Has communism ever been successful? No it hasn't. The experiment has been repeated many times and it has always failed. And if that wasn't true communism then can anyone really say what true communism is? Until we find out all the answers we'd better let people govern themselves instead of surrendering to dogma.

[DrMontague]

Then you haven't understood dialectical materialism. It's a typical response that you give,that is, 'the show me where it has worked' attitude. Just as Dawkins is trying to win peoples consciousness over to seeing the reality of evolution theory, I'm trying to free peoples from false class consciousness to class consciousness.

[DrMontague]

With the whole world now going through the stage of capitalism the dialectic is playing itself out. The countries you are talking about jumped from feudalism to communism, not from capitalism to communism. Certainly capitalism has to hurt in order for people to become aware of the absurdity of such an economic system that lets millions starve when there is no shortage of food.

[DrMontague]

Perhaps one day it will really hurt you in the form of having a house repossessed, or being denied life saving drugs because of lack of money and not the drug.

[mindvirus88]

I'd rather live free and die young.

[DrMontague]

Then you clearly have not understood communism. It is about being free, giving every human being high quality education,having excellent working conditions, plenty of leisure time to pursue hobbies and interests. BTW millions do die young under the confines of capital e.g. in the African nations. The continent is extremely rich in resources that are plundered by multinationals, yet millions live in poverty.

[mindvirus88]

The African nations in question are corrupt and undemocratic. They would be better off if they weren't following the latest communist wacko or fascist general.

I think it is you has misunderstood communism. Communism means a one party state. This is not freedom.

Being free, having excellent working conditions and plenty of leisure time are all goals that that can (and in my country, have been) reached through democratic means.

[DrMontague]

I'm from the UK. You are talking about TOTALITARIANISM NOT COMMUNISM. You appear to be person who hasn't read much in this line, and taken in by propaganda news. You first need to read the social and Economic History of Britain to get a grasp a history of class. A GCSE book would suffice. I then recommend you read an excellent novel 'The Ragged Trousered Philanthropists' by Robert Tressle, It's a free ebook at Rroject Gutenburg.

[DrMontague]

The benefit system was gradually brought in to curb working class discontent after the wars beginning with the Boar WAR. It was brought in not for philanthropic means but for the fact you needed healthy people to fight the wars on behalf of capitalism. WWI was a war of attrition.

[mindvirus88]

You assume that someone with a differing political opinion to you must be less well read than you are. This is an extremely boneheaded attitude. I find you unworthy to have a discussion with.

[DrMontague]

Your difference of opinion is based on ignorance not knowledge or genuine research. Go back to the SUN ( gutter press newspaper)comment page where you have clearly got your education from.

[DrMontague]

We don't know for sure how the first life began( bio-genesis) but that does not mean there is a god. There have been hundreds of gods that are clearly the figment of the human imagination, this includes the Christian god. However, there is strong evidence for evolution DNA being one part of this jigsaw. Even the R.C. Church accepts evolutionary theory.

[Fladnag7560]

Just ask yourself. What if he's wrong? Just, what if? Don't believe Mr. Dawkins just because he's written books and is on YouTube... Next time you're in the backyard, look at the grass, know it is giving you oxygen and in turn you give it carbon dioxide. How did that EVOLVE?

[DrMontague]

I don't think you have grasped Dawkins argument. It does appear awesome that everything interconnects and is balanced. This is the reason people in the past and some even now believed that it was god given. The real answer is time. The earth is 4.5 billion years in the making. Small changes over this vast amount of time gave rise to the complexity of life you see today.

[DrMontague]

Ignore the propaganda news. Most people even if they believe in god just want to get on with their lives. Take heart, look at recent events in Turkey. They will only accept a secular government.

[whichrich68]

Great series Dr Montague. Thank you. Its a sad thing that his optimism for the waning of superstition (08:00) has not been born out. He alludes to this in "The God Delusion". It would appear we have become locked in a terrible feedback mechanism of violence, fear and fundamentalism.

[DrMontague]

Personally I do not see religion as threat to rationality. It's now no more than a thorn in a rhinos arse. Science has won the battle of minds. Just watch UKTV history channel, you never hear arguments for a young earth.

[jjuran]

Watching Dawkins' lectures renews my confidence in humankind, that reason and science not only can but will prevail over dogma and myth.

My only complaint is the gratuitous theremin music accompanying the lunar landing. :-P

[billhill83]

I am regretful to say that it is more likely that our world will be destroyed than that we will ever complete our understanding of the universe.

[Eyedunno]

The summary was brilliant and wrapped up all five lectures perfectly. Thanks for the upload, DrMontague!

[naimad75]

Nah. That's so 'last millenium'. You wanna get proper retro. Anubis is where it's at!

[M1kk0P01k4]

"hes made several errors in reasoning just on this video itself..." I'm sure you'll be glad to point out those errors.

[M1kk0P01k4]

Which god? Just wanted to ask, so I don't accidentally bow before a wrong god....

[dallased25]

As usual, another brilliant video by Dawkins from earlier in his career. He's just as impressive today as he was back then.

[auggyp]

Absolutely brilliant. How can you not watch these and be absolutely humbled? Religion has much to fear from truth.

[amsterdammed71]

I have to say, this series of lectures stands head and shoulders above ANY other I have seen at christmas time. I take my hat off to you dr montague for your efforts posting all these....

[everyspecies]

totally appreciated. Even now after rewatching 15 years on it still feels like a blast of fresh air.

[RadicalHumanism]

uh i'm not sure about moon landing as an instance of what human minds did accomplish

[mattbourke]

thank evolution for richard dawkins

[clintonoshea]

Dr. M, you are a star. Thank you so very much for posting these lectures, I look forward to some more.

[DrMontague]

that is from Dawkins onwards

[DrMontague]

I'v got more xmas lectures from the past but they r not by Dawkins. I will get around to uploading them

[MediaGold]

Aw shucks, I really enjoyed watching these, Dr! I also enjoyed the documentary about science vs creationism. Thank you again so much for posting these. I only wished they showed such things here in America when I was a kid.

[dtandersen]

Thanks doc

[2ndstone]

Thanks DrMontague, thank god your spreading the good word.

;O)

[theinquisitor]

What did god do? Thank DrMontague.

I'd like to thank Zeus and Hercules for spreading the good word. I jest of course 2ndstone, I realise it's merely a figure of speech. Daniel Dennet says thank goodness instead.

Thanks so much DrMontague.

[2ndstone]

it was a joke you god worshiping plague!

but if there was a god, lets thank him for making people like Dawkins

to inspire people like DrMontague to post video like this to prove there is no god.

[DrMontague]

calm down guys.Brian 'We should be united against the common enemy' 'The Judean Peoples Front!?' Brian 'No no no the Romans'  The life of Brian

[jjuran]

Thank God for sending us Richard Dawkins to save us from superstitious beliefs!

[Larraby999]

Huh? Do you mean superstitious beliefs like god? After watching this series, can there be any doubt about the origin of life? I think not.

[jjuran]

Now that I think about it, it's not the beliefs themselves that trouble me but rather their superstitious nature.

[DrMontague]

This is the last of the Xmas Lectures. I'm gonna rest for a month. Fight the good fight!