I think part of the issue I have with this video is that it's listing what WoW does "wrong", not necessarily what the holy trinity does wrong. For instance, he talks about DPS being a "solo game", and while that is true for WoW most of the time, it doesn't have to be. I saw a few things about players combining skills (such as an archer shooting through a fire wall to do fire arrows), and mechanics like that could easily be done with the trinity.
Actually blizzard has solved all issues were tanks have nothing to ever worry about except for cooldown rotations, dps have to beat enrage timers oh and healers no worries TONS AND TONS OF AOE. You cant heal through it its GG. The game is popular yes , good NO. Caters to casuals far too much. And the last thing i wanna point out the last time a fight required true team coordination was Vashj and Kael. Thats a long time ago. And dont tell me hagara requires coordination.
How is the trinity accurate. If you read your bible Jesus said my god why has thou forsaken me. How can he forsake himself? And John said in the book of revelatio
It's always nice to see when someone gets the big picture and is able to make it so clear that everyone can grasp it.
After GW2 has shown the gaming community that there is no need for "the holy trinity", I doubt we will be seeing much more of it in the future. Good riddance
Dude, i've been playing WoW for 6 1/2 years now. .... I loved Wow. I still do and Always will. Im a guild master who has a very successful guild with weekly raids and RBG's. One of my core raiders linked me Guild Wars 2 - Top 10 Reasons to be Interested. I was hooked immediately. This new game is ... PERFECT! 100% amazing!! I have now convinced alot of my officers/leaders to help spread the word on my realm. GW2 will be the new WoW. God, it needs to come out already.Thank you Alex for the vids
@LostcauseX1 ^ Iv been playing WoW since vanilla but left once the caty trainwreck hit. I'v tried a shitload of mmorpgs hoping they will be as good as WoW as (Even that shit fest swtor) sadly they all failed.
I Really hope GW 2 will bring back the feeling that I had when I used to play WoW, vanilla and burning crusade especially, I really think it will.
sorry, but Tank/Healer/Dps combo is the only one that works, GW2 likes to talk about how they are doing away with it but eventually players will figure out what class tanks the best, what class heals the best, and what class does damage the best and if you play that class you will end up playing that role
@skrampsify Anet haven't destroy the trinity, they just changed to a new one that make sense... if the 'tank' dies someone can replace him easy while other one revive the one tanking, of course there will be people that prepare their gear for control, others for support or damage, but is just up to u none came prepared for tanking everyone can tank a part of the dungeon, someone is dying anyone can heal him... basically you have to be mobile in a fight not just sand there and do ur rotation...
@skrampsify No the trinity is not there. Get that out of your fucking head.
No class can "taunt" Therefore there is no possible way for a class to keep aggro, therefore = no tank
No class can select another player and heal, therefore there is no possible way for any class to heal someone else "Specifically". Therefore = no healer. Everyone has there own heal. and everyclass has an aoe heal that heals for a VERY minor ammount.
@skrampsify That is what every1 is saying that doesnt know much about GW2. I suggest you look at some of the videoes made by the press after the beta last weekend, and listen to what people that have actually played the game says. That should clearify things for you. Cheers
I always roll healer/buffer on other mmos and heck ur plain right, besides a self-heal skill should be mandatory, like a boss raid:
Boss aoes the pt,weak dd goes to min hp, tank is running low and since u hace to focus on him its like # oh crap i cant keep up#
And hell i find dd weak, tank boring and ok healer is fine but i wanna play instead of being watching hp bars, so im just w8 to see how gw2 sorts this out( Nice vid, totally agree with u
If i did my best to heal every one in a group and keept all alive, according to dps players the dungeon was easy . If someone died, I sucked. -Why didn't you heal me??!!
my answers in general:
- I did 3 times but you died anyway, im sorry
- I couldn't cus you'r retarded friend didn't move from fire so i had to give him to much attension.
- Did you see how mutch damage the tank took? or me? Prio is tank or healer, not you.
- Well why did you stay behind a pellar so i get lost of sight?
This is why I'm also interested in GW2. All classes have at least a self heal and several can heal a little bit outside of that as well. All classes can tank, though their styles are different. All classes can provide buffs. And not the 'cast and forget' kind wow has. And all classes can dps too. Not to mention all classes have access to both melee and ranged dps.
That's what they're saying at least. And what the video's so far seem to show.
i prefer to play defensive classes. Always have. What does Guild wars have to support a defensive playstyle? I prefer to outlast my opponents rather than blow them up before they do the same to me. If there is no tank role, then whats the point? Why should i pick to take less damage and deal less damage if im not protecting other people?
@lelandwhitehead56 Guild wars has multiple classes that can focus on defence. The Ritualist, Paragon, and Monk can reduce damage from enemies to laughable levels through multiply skills and sill combinations.Also warriors can tank. Not to mention with cross profession combos elementalists and others can sue spells from other classes to do the same if not better.
I always-always run healer... in large part because in the MMOs I've played, there was no threat and the only position where skill mattered was healer. I got sick of always dying, and it's more fun when my role is actually challenging.
And seriously, I have no trouble teamworkin' it up with Lydia or Borgakh the Steel Heart in Skyrim, despite both of us playing non-Trinity-style characters. I'm not sure why more developers haven't thought of this.
I used to have my doubts about the no-tank-or-healer system, but this video really changed my mind. As the only job I've taken in any MMO is tank or healer, since I enjoy being depended upon and because it makes fights more fun. So I didn't really have much of a problem with it. I only now realize I could never get into being a DPS. I'm really looking forward to seeing whether or not GW2 can make this work.
Very well said i really enjoyed this video. Game systems and mechanics (including balance) really interest me and I spend hours thinking about them and ways to improve them. You caught my interest and made some excellent points. Well done, subscribed bra.
@GustavoMsTrashCan You can't solo a single dungeon in GW2. In case you didn't read the article from about a year ago on the Guild Wars 2 website, the first dungeon you get access to is at lvl 35 and dungeons are part of the endgame on the PvE side. They are designed to be challenging to any 5-man group.
You can probably solo small dynamic events and mob groups, but beyond that, nope.avi
@GustavoMsTrashCan I have no proof, but from what devs were saying in Q&A, I don't think anyone could actually solo dungeons in GW2. It takes teamwork to do. Even when you are high level going in lower level dungeons, you will get side-kick system to the level of that dungeon. Also, dungeons won't be completly repeated cuz of dynamic events. They also offer various combo of 2 skills with other players to create new and powerful attack. Arrows pass wall of fire = flame arrows
@GustavoMsTrashCan - You can't solo dungeons. You can solo most other things, with the exceptions being a good number of dynamic events (the Shatterer, for instance). I would MUCH prefer to spend time in an outpost "LF more" than "LF healer", which is basically what this switch is going to amount to.
I never joined a group outside of a dungeon the entire time I played WoW (2 months), despite hitting level 67 on one character. For lack of other players willing to quest. So...
@ijustpostcomments whats really great is the "LF more" wont even take long, u only really need to for dungeons (becuz u dont need to group for DEs) and the max is 5
GW2 MIGHT be the LAST successful FANTASY MMO to launch.The fantasy scene is done though.People want something different,Sci-fi,Horror,modern settings."THE SECRET WORLD" Will be a sleeper hit.No classes,No lvls,no armor,clothes are cosmetic,Over 500 "unique"skills to earn and choose from.Guns,blades,magic.Encourages,investigation,exploration.supports solo play.All 3factions can PvE together.3 way meaningful PvP.GW2 is actually waiting to see if THE SECRET WORLD will launch in April.Theyre afraid.
I got great recognition as a healer in wrath. When im pulling out 12k HPS, with the fails as teammates doing 5. Guild wars 2 does have a better system, the only worry though is, how fast now will you die in 1 v 1's? / How long will 1 v 1's last with both players being able to heal themselves and damage. Also this new system is going to become heavily dependent on other players in PvP and PvE which can be worrying as in PvP many people are too shit to realize when to help others.
@caniwatchavidplz I agree...Like in pvp...if your are fighting and have 4 friends a nda group of 20 show up...their supportive and self heals will almost complete negate your damage... so it boils down to travel in as LARGE of a group as you possably can.
I like how arena net finally have the balls to try something new what wow does works but it only works for them and copys will never live up to the real thing guildwars 2 is finally having a different system maybe it won't appeal to the every one at first but I think it has the potential to switch up how all mmos will work from now on
@AnxiousFTW No, finally a company who has BALLS finally stepped up and replaced the system and tried something new. Not to mention TAKING THEIR TIME with Guild Wars 2. Thank god for ArenaNet!
People still dont understand that the abolishment of a holy trinity will not get rid of "tanks, healers, and damage dealers." Rather the roles will still be there, but can be switched on the fly. In GW2, I can be a support ranger, think of a hunter in wow with a holy tree, the option to support your teammates is there, but if your comfortable doing damage, that option is there too. Every class can viably fill every role, so grouping up evokes the "Bring the player not he class mentality."
@Cityguy193 every class must do everything in order to succeed in killing a boss, there are no talent trees that specify a "way of playing a class" all classes have their own ability that can "self heal". for example: The warrior has a simple castable while moving self heal, where as the necromancer has a blood minion that can be summoned and sacraficed when not needed to heal the necromancer. Each class also has the ability to help/defend others, but not directly heal or tank. anyway who cares
This is why I love Rift. Yes, you can play a pure damage dealer or a pure healer. But I play a senticar cleric. Which is a mix of sentinel, justicar and inquisitor. I use damage dealing attacks to generate convictions for group healing, I have strong single target healing for tank healing and I can deal some decent damage.
How is the holy trinity teamwork at all? All the dps ignore every other player (unless there is a specific event that says otherwise, rarely the case) they spam 1 2 3 and stand out of fire, tanks just hit taunt when they need to switch, and healers just stare at UI.
Everything, yes EVERYTHING, relies upon the 2 or 3 tanks and the healers. Without the trinity, everybody is switching aggro MANUALLLY (not hitting taunt) and you wont fail cuz a few people die.
@fjolify So you are saying... dependence on specific classes is team work? I want to do a dungeon, but we need a healer ~stands in outpost spamming for hours~... Tank doesn't give a shit about anything else unless the healer heals him/her, DPS just attacks because that's all he/she is good for. The healer, well who gives a fuck about the healer unless he/she is doing the job. See what I mean?
Guild Wars 2 is getting rid of the DEPENDENCE between classes. Not getting rid of the Holy Trinity.
Yeah, I agree with this entirely. My favorite character was my druid during early days so I could swap around and do whatever needed to be done. I've not played wow for ages now.
I am sooooooooooooo happy that this system won't be in GW2, played Healer in Aion, Tank in Wow and Rift... when it came to Heroic/expert dungeons it was hell.... even if the wipe wasn't my fault, they all blamed me... and when I went dps, I never had dps high enough... even if we were doing a flawless dungeon.... stupid childish community.....
I've played wow since it came out, on and off, with breaks towards the last couple of years. The game is becoming stagnant and being aimed towards a mass audience of casual players and the skill seems to be less of a requirement. Guild Wars 2 is the first game since wow that really has caught my attention and I love the fact the way your character will perform is based on personal skill, tactics and teamwork with no definitive role but the ability to adapt your style to what's needed at the time
I agree that the basics of the holy trinity do not work, but if done right in a game it can. The system just needs to be balanced. GW2 will have the option to go down a specific route just in case you do want to play a certain role.
I agree with you. I played a mage in wow for 4.5 years and quit in wotlk because of how stupid arenas became when hybrids could do everything better than you. It was frustrating running around a pillar with 2.5 sec cast spells when hybrids had 1.5 cast times and could heal and cc and not run oom like me.
Then I moved to aion that has no structured pvp and is zerg vs zerg. I LOVE the sorcerer in that game, but the game sucks because of the zergs and gear imbalances and dev team not caring.
Continuing on that thought, a lot of that is accomplished by rewarding "clutch" skills instead of "spammy" skills. I think the whole existence of "rotations" is kind of a problem unto itself - there's no adapting to the situation.
I think much of the problem lies with poor AI for the PvE in many games. If the AI acted less like an RPG and more like an action game, perhaps many of these problems would go away.
I agree, but only when heroes/characters are pigeonholed into doing EXCLUSIVELY one thing. For example, if you look to other genres with fantasy backgrounds - say, the DotA-like games - you'll see characters who are very interesting and have a MAIN role and place on a team, but during the off-time between using the skills that define their role, they just do whatever's needed for that particular fight. If I'm a healer and need to kite and attack for a while, I can do that. But that's PvP, too.
I'd like to see a different system to the Holy Trinity, but I haven't seen anything that would work. Dragon Nest was an MMO with incredible combat and no Trinity in place, but the end result was that EVERYONE was "DPS that can dodge". This had even LESS teamwork, as there was no difference between soloing content and going as a group other than, in groups, more damage was being done and enemies might attack your teammates instead of all focusing on you. I prefer the Holy Trinity to that.
You make some good points, but the Holy Trinity, when done correctly and not bastardized, is the best system for a multiplayer online game. You contradicted yourself when you said that when you were a Paladin who could switch from DPS, heals, and tanking, it was teamwork. This is the exact opposite since you could self-sustain yourself. You don't have to worry about your party if they can do the same thing. The problem is tedious rotations, broken/unbalanced classes, and no bonuses for teamwork.
Yes there are no healers or tanks in GW2 but there will be the ones with more supportive skills and ones who are more beefy and take more dmg before they die. You can't run from that.
5:40 haha that's so true mages spam arcane blast through the whole dungeon :D it's so funny to look at the damage meters and see the mage at 1st place with 98.5% dmg done of arcane blast.
what if our expectations for guild wars 2 is out of proportion. What if the game is going to suck? It makes me sad just thinking about it. But its reality.
I played WOW for 5.5 years and burned out hard for many of the reasons you explained in this video. The fact that GW2 is doing away with this system and is not a paid subscription game are why I am going to give it a try. I played SWTOR for a few says in BETA and it is WOW with a Star Wars shell. I found myself feeling agitated in SW just like in WOW, because it is WOW. I am so tired of the HT system, GW2 will be a nice break from it.
I agree to this, but there's one thing about the "trinity" that I like. I'm a lazy person, and most of the times I stay at the back and wait for my teammates to do the killing. I can only achiev that by being a healer :)
@DaynNightGaming Well for instance elementalists have the earth attunement which is pretty much their "defensive" stance and Necromancer's have incredibly huge health pools and alot of life-stealing abilities.
And you gotta remember this isn't WoW, who knows how important basic damage mitigation will be
Thanks for making this video! I agree with most of the points you've raised, as a player of WoW for the past 7 years too.
I'm actually relatively surprised that Blizzard didn't choose to slowly break the Holy Trinity system, and chose instead to design around it. The main reason I'm not playing SWTOR is also because of the Holy Trinity - I've played such a game for 7 years, I don't want to play another one.
Here's hoping GW2 starts the end of the Tank-Healer-DPS system.
Well constructed argument, friend. I've concluded much of the same based on my own WoW experience. Thanks for tightening it all into one succinct package. Who knows, maybe someone at Blizzard is watching!
Its really not that WoW or mmo's in general are hard,
They're like trying to do one of those shape peg games while having to work with a bunch of retarded people who are constantly shouting and throwing shit at each other.
Another side effect of the Holy Trinity is that Healing output becomes completely insane. Healers have to keep up Tanks vs. Raid bosses that put out DPS that far exceeds anything players can deliver.
So when these same Healers enter PVP environments like Battlegrounds and Arenas, they become almost unkillable because they can heal themselves and their allies faster than the enemy can damage them. And that makes them absolutely required for PVP.
@Bankstercide Actually, ANet mentioned this very thing in one of their articles. Which is why they decided to do away with dedicated healers like the Monk.
In WoW, under the Holy Trinity system, there were 3 requirements:
1: Gear requirements (especially for resist fights)
2: Group Comp and Spec
3: Knowing boss mechanics
Once these requirements were met, content quickly became trivialized with a bit of practice and going to "farm status".
But most WoW players didn't mind because progression was measured in gear, not content. But in GW2, where there is less gear dependency, this state of affairs would not be acceptable.
@Bankstercide Because players can fill all roles and because there are no threat mechanics in GW2, player coordination and preparation is vital. Too many Sword Warriors because of condition stacking limits? Simple, have the other Warriors swap out their weapons. Not enough group support skills in your utility and healing skills slots? Change them out to best suit the fight mechanics and group playstyle.
You could not do this in WoW because specs provided fixed capabilities.
Some of your points were valid, but some were WoW specific such as tanks outputting too much threat, or healers having nearly limitless mana or hybrids being stupid.
In other games these issues were never problems. Even in early WoW, these issues didn't exist. Tanking Molten Core in Vanilla in blues was bloody hard and you lost aggro all the time.
@SWilliamJackson That's true - if your DPS didn't use a threat meter addon back then, you'd be in big trouble.
But the point stands that Threat mechanics are utterly broken. Why? Because it's too hard to balance. Either you make threat gen too powerful and most tanking becomes trivial, or you make it too weak and content becomes brutally hard. In fact, many boss mechanics revolved around dropping and wiping threat as a way of adjusting difficulty.
@SirPunchy In GW2 you don't have to wait for specific roles to be in your party to progress through content. In WoW you have to wait hours. In GW2 if someone gets into "down state" or dies, can get revive by any player and keep on fighting. Even if a player its dead theres still 4 other that can heal/support each other and themselves securing a chance to finish the dungeon. In WoW the Healer or Tank dies theres a wipe for sure.
to put it simple its like healer is useful but ignored if not then blamed on when something goes wrong. tank is very important but few people play as them so groups are waiting for hours for a tank. and damage dealers just well deal damage.
Have to agree with the vid. This system realy doesnt offer much - its simply easy to implement and has become a fundamental part of MMO's so everyone does it. Not because its good but because its expected.
Agreed. it's a flawed mechanic based on poor interpretation of pen and paper RPG rules from back when MMOs first started. MMO developers over the years have been too risk-averse to attempt getting rid of the mechanic even when it didn't fit with their MMO setting. Superheroes and jedi are not known for constantly healing teammates but we see that in City of Heroes and SWTOR. It's long past time this lame and stupid mechanic went the way of the dinosaurs like so many old-school mechanics.
This why i'm looking forward to GW2 so much, everyone can run into teh fight and actually....fight and when you see your friend getting hurt you back off and help him then get back to fighting. Sure there are people who like to have a role like a tank or support but you can still do that, you can still set it up, if you want to hang abck and be support you can, and you can do it as any class. this reminds me alot of the freedom of the FPS games
@Jstudly771 Yep. The game is very inviting for people to just have fun together and learn that it's ok to have others fight with you, even if they're not in your party. They'll be able to learn a more responsive skill for action, rather than sitting around planning on what certain people should be doing. And for those in a party such as for cases like with dungeons, they'll still be able to organize to decide whom can play whatever role they need covered & without worry about not having a class.
i just can't agree more with everything you said in this video. i felt like i need to at least leave a comment to respect the thoughts and opinions you put into this system theory. you've totally bought me over with all your videos - hoping very much to see and know you in game when GW2 is out =) respect sir
I played wow for a couple of years on and off I never could figure out what made me quit this last time and this video explains it I never realised that i didn't like dps because you aren't unique and can be replaced healers don't get noticed unless someone messes up then you get blamed 90% of the time and when tanking if you make one big mistake you get screamed at.
@Alkenes130 All mmo games up until recent times have had these same problems. However Gw2 is one of those new games that addresses these problems with its remarkable combat & class system. :]
@3lprim0 Actually the 90% of the wipes fault is for the healer, then 9.99% for the tank and the rest for dps. Some people don't understand our job as healer is keep alive everyone as long as they are receiving damage possible to heal. They don't understand every fight have a point where the heal can't keep alive the people because either way they are taking to much damage or all are taken to much damage at the same time... no interrupts, standing on fire, etc
@hellwave100 There are no raids like there are in WoW for instance. There are dungeons, 6-man instances which branching exploration-modes allowing for better replayability. Out in the world there are events like that Shatterer and others that require hordes of players to complete, which is pretty epic boss-battle like, just without all the annoying hours of trashmobs first.
@hellwave100 Gw2 will have plenty of options as far as classes go for players with different tastes, but what I think you mean is that it will not be as heavily "role" based as other games are. :] There of course will be times where players will dynamically switch their role on the fly during combat as needed, but none of the classes has you stuck in a single role such as support. And nobody can force you to be a single role, unless you joined a player guild that ordered you to do so. lol
@hellwave100 Just because you go out there to do your job and only your job, doesn't mean you aren't a team or you are not using teamwork. If the healer stops healing the tank, everyone dies. If the tank doesn't hold aggro, everyone dies. If the DPS doesn't kill a boss fast enough, the healers run OOM, and everyone dies. Seems like teamwork to me. I guess a football team isn't a real team because the QB doesn't cover receivers on defense or an offensive lineman doesn't run the post corner.
@Baconstrip1978 I think utter dependency is the issue. If the tank dies, you wipe. If the healers die, you wipe. If all the DPS stand in fire, you wipe. Wouldn't it be nice to be able to take care of yourself and fill a different role in a snap if need be? You do what needs to be done in the moment, not just one tedious job. It's more dynamic that way.
@Baconstrip1978 well am a tank and always has been , fast queues 1# needed in the server really felt like am needed for anything and must of all soloing quests and invasions (in Rift) is great specially when u having 50moobs on you unable to kill you.
am looking forward for the warrior and engineer class
Guild wars 2 is gonna be awesome! I didnt wanted to play wow anymore, cause like u say theres no teamwork in it when u play like a dps, wich i did. So i stopped paying. Holy trinity makes it all boring :(
WELL... I just play wow for arenas & battlegrounds (thats why im on a private server - instant 80 full PVP)... after u lvled up 4-5 chars... grinding...farming... PVE in general became boring as fck!... So yeah in arena there isnt actually a trinity nor in bgs... its just dps & healers... & ofc IT requires a lot of skill... if u want a nice rating =). Anyway LFward to this game (Y)
@Alexrediclous 100% correct on WoW. You hit the nail on the head. Vanillia WoW was great. Every class was unique, but ll could support, too.. Rogues could tank, shamans could tank or heal. However as you put it, Blizzard destroyed that style. It sucks now. I've already cancled my account, gladly. WoW's 'Golden Age' was in Vanillia/Burning Crusade. The game is sub-par now and anyone who attempts to argue otherwise doesn't know how good the game used to be, or possible what a good game even is.
I hated being a tank because of the gear heaviness it needed.
I hated being a healer because it was boring and even if I was doing fine and it was either the tank or dps causing the wipe, its my fault. Even if I die from tanks not keeping hate, its my fault. To make it worse - I couldn't do anything myself. I had to rely on others for kills.
I hated DPS because I'm just an extra leg. and a replaceable one at that.
I can't wait for Guild wars 2. No more holy trinity!
great video, i like how much you talk and explain things, u seem a cool guy, hopefully ill see you in GW2 when we wont have to worrie about this holy trinity ish! i subbed!
I've favorited and commented on all of your most recent videos. I feel slightly like a creep, but I love seeing someone with thought and concern invested in the state of games. I couldn't agree more with the things that you say and I am incredibly glad that you take the time to try to say them as best as possible.
HAHAHA WHAT A SHIT GAME! GW2 is another bad WoW clone. They copied all the races from WoW, char = tauren, asura = gnomes, norn = bigger dwarfs, sylvari = night elfs. The classes? Also copied. Thief = rogue, ranger = hunter, elementalist = mage, necromancer = warlock!
LOL FAIL! Another shit korean grind fest game wannabe that wants to steal 5% of WoW's playerbase so that they also get people to pay them every month and make money!
Nothing can kill WoW, Fuck GW2 and Fuck GW players.
I dislike healers, I hate supporting people because like you said, we don't get noticed until we either aren't there or die...
This is why I'm usually a Warrior/Tanker... I will be noticed, but when I fault in something, it's most likely we aren't rotating properly, or the healer isn't doing his/her job and therefore blame them for the loss... which isn't what MMOs are supposed to be... It's a community built up against each other and supporting one another, this is why Guild Wars 2 will rock!
Yeah, I agree with you here basically right now I'm the most important healer of my guild, because i'm always there for raids as raid healer, better gear than the other, etc, and you know what? you're right, people only notice I'm there, when I'm not, I mean when I died because someone fault, or when one day I couldn't participate in a raid, other way I'm like a ghost there... Thats why I hate so much the ''holy trinity''
I'm in total agreement, except in rift no one buy you anything, guilds tend to be obsessively elitist almost never helping anyone outside their guild or people would greed good loot you really need to improve your play but tanks and healers are sadly in short supply due to the fact they are to depended on and given little affection for what they do or take it it to far and try to use it to command everyone else just because they are required to get something done so GW2 looks to be awesome!
Good video, after playing wow and other mmo's I agree 100% with what was said. I think that also the holy trinity system also makes combat boring, you stand there and take DMG, heal or do DMG, very little though involved. I can't wait for a game that not only encourages dynamic combat but requires it. I wish more games would take a page out of gw2's book and do this.
He's right it IS the holy trinity. Everything he says is stuff people are seen dealing with on a daily basis. Pretty dumb how people could call this video dumb or retarded when they cant accept the fact that holy trinity is a fail! Being able to support yourself with tanking/healing/dps is pretty much the simple solution to this problem so I dont understand simply why no one came up with this solution in the first place.
I love playing tank in trinioty mmo's cause its all about me lol =D why would u wanna play useless dps or healer chearleaders?
fbibarbie 1 day ago
absolutely agree.
Kaosninja89 2 days ago
FUCKING GENIUS! THIS IS THE ROOT OF BORINGNESS IN PVE!
EmilioKewl 3 days ago
I think part of the issue I have with this video is that it's listing what WoW does "wrong", not necessarily what the holy trinity does wrong. For instance, he talks about DPS being a "solo game", and while that is true for WoW most of the time, it doesn't have to be. I saw a few things about players combining skills (such as an archer shooting through a fire wall to do fire arrows), and mechanics like that could easily be done with the trinity.
linkn2 3 days ago
Actually blizzard has solved all issues were tanks have nothing to ever worry about except for cooldown rotations, dps have to beat enrage timers oh and healers no worries TONS AND TONS OF AOE. You cant heal through it its GG. The game is popular yes , good NO. Caters to casuals far too much. And the last thing i wanna point out the last time a fight required true team coordination was Vashj and Kael. Thats a long time ago. And dont tell me hagara requires coordination.
pandazz69 4 days ago
Well, this is new... I suddenly feel like I need to give this man some money... He deserves it, to be sure.
Thumbs up if you agree!
newbiedoodle 5 days ago 9
1474 are non fully-theme parked content subscription MMO butthurts
AzorthTheAvenger 6 days ago
In the book of revelation we god showed him the throne room John said I saw one siting on the throne. Not three but one!
TheBjs345 6 days ago
How is the trinity accurate. If you read your bible Jesus said my god why has thou forsaken me. How can he forsake himself? And John said in the book of revelatio
TheBjs345 6 days ago
nice video. (whats the name of the song in the end?) =D
Yuliviee 6 days ago
It's always nice to see when someone gets the big picture and is able to make it so clear that everyone can grasp it.
After GW2 has shown the gaming community that there is no need for "the holy trinity", I doubt we will be seeing much more of it in the future. Good riddance
viking75ify 6 days ago
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CelesteWins 1 week ago
Dude, i've been playing WoW for 6 1/2 years now. .... I loved Wow. I still do and Always will. Im a guild master who has a very successful guild with weekly raids and RBG's. One of my core raiders linked me Guild Wars 2 - Top 10 Reasons to be Interested. I was hooked immediately. This new game is ... PERFECT! 100% amazing!! I have now convinced alot of my officers/leaders to help spread the word on my realm. GW2 will be the new WoW. God, it needs to come out already.Thank you Alex for the vids
LostcauseX1 1 week ago
@LostcauseX1 ^ Iv been playing WoW since vanilla but left once the caty trainwreck hit. I'v tried a shitload of mmorpgs hoping they will be as good as WoW as (Even that shit fest swtor) sadly they all failed.
I Really hope GW 2 will bring back the feeling that I had when I used to play WoW, vanilla and burning crusade especially, I really think it will.
staticflare 1 week ago
sorry, but Tank/Healer/Dps combo is the only one that works, GW2 likes to talk about how they are doing away with it but eventually players will figure out what class tanks the best, what class heals the best, and what class does damage the best and if you play that class you will end up playing that role
skrampsify 1 week ago
@skrampsify Anet haven't destroy the trinity, they just changed to a new one that make sense... if the 'tank' dies someone can replace him easy while other one revive the one tanking, of course there will be people that prepare their gear for control, others for support or damage, but is just up to u none came prepared for tanking everyone can tank a part of the dungeon, someone is dying anyone can heal him... basically you have to be mobile in a fight not just sand there and do ur rotation...
19EJ91 1 week ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@skrampsify No the trinity is not there. Get that out of your fucking head.
No class can "taunt" Therefore there is no possible way for a class to keep aggro, therefore = no tank
No class can select another player and heal, therefore there is no possible way for any class to heal someone else "Specifically". Therefore = no healer. Everyone has there own heal. and everyclass has an aoe heal that heals for a VERY minor ammount.
No fucking holy trinity Stfu about it.
staticflare 1 week ago
@skrampsify That is what every1 is saying that doesnt know much about GW2. I suggest you look at some of the videoes made by the press after the beta last weekend, and listen to what people that have actually played the game says. That should clearify things for you. Cheers
viking75ify 6 days ago
I always roll healer/buffer on other mmos and heck ur plain right, besides a self-heal skill should be mandatory, like a boss raid:
Boss aoes the pt,weak dd goes to min hp, tank is running low and since u hace to focus on him its like # oh crap i cant keep up#
And hell i find dd weak, tank boring and ok healer is fine but i wanna play instead of being watching hp bars, so im just w8 to see how gw2 sorts this out( Nice vid, totally agree with u
Mordred984 2 weeks ago
If i did my best to heal every one in a group and keept all alive, according to dps players the dungeon was easy . If someone died, I sucked. -Why didn't you heal me??!!
my answers in general:
- I did 3 times but you died anyway, im sorry
- I couldn't cus you'r retarded friend didn't move from fire so i had to give him to much attension.
- Did you see how mutch damage the tank took? or me? Prio is tank or healer, not you.
- Well why did you stay behind a pellar so i get lost of sight?
jagjagjag009 2 weeks ago
This is why I'm also interested in GW2. All classes have at least a self heal and several can heal a little bit outside of that as well. All classes can tank, though their styles are different. All classes can provide buffs. And not the 'cast and forget' kind wow has. And all classes can dps too. Not to mention all classes have access to both melee and ranged dps.
That's what they're saying at least. And what the video's so far seem to show.
Sanquinity 2 weeks ago
nice video
atalasfarted 2 weeks ago
i prefer to play defensive classes. Always have. What does Guild wars have to support a defensive playstyle? I prefer to outlast my opponents rather than blow them up before they do the same to me. If there is no tank role, then whats the point? Why should i pick to take less damage and deal less damage if im not protecting other people?
lelandwhitehead56 3 weeks ago
@lelandwhitehead56 Guild wars has multiple classes that can focus on defence. The Ritualist, Paragon, and Monk can reduce damage from enemies to laughable levels through multiply skills and sill combinations.Also warriors can tank. Not to mention with cross profession combos elementalists and others can sue spells from other classes to do the same if not better.
zealous010 3 weeks ago
@lelandwhitehead56 Guild wars 2 Guardian look it up
AzureTheStealth9 2 weeks ago
Holy fuck thank you for opening my eyes.
Ang3l4life93x 3 weeks ago
I always-always run healer... in large part because in the MMOs I've played, there was no threat and the only position where skill mattered was healer. I got sick of always dying, and it's more fun when my role is actually challenging.
And seriously, I have no trouble teamworkin' it up with Lydia or Borgakh the Steel Heart in Skyrim, despite both of us playing non-Trinity-style characters. I'm not sure why more developers haven't thought of this.
ijustpostcomments 3 weeks ago
I used to have my doubts about the no-tank-or-healer system, but this video really changed my mind. As the only job I've taken in any MMO is tank or healer, since I enjoy being depended upon and because it makes fights more fun. So I didn't really have much of a problem with it. I only now realize I could never get into being a DPS. I'm really looking forward to seeing whether or not GW2 can make this work.
Corvaillian 1 month ago
Very well said i really enjoyed this video. Game systems and mechanics (including balance) really interest me and I spend hours thinking about them and ways to improve them. You caught my interest and made some excellent points. Well done, subscribed bra.
OlagHai 1 month ago
This is soooo true! Thats why i want to play GW among with other reasons! bored with wow now!
AntharokGaming 1 month ago
Really smart dude. Subbed
Portubed 1 month ago
I...somewhat disagree with you.
Guild Wars 2 encourages Jack-of-all-trades classes, wich leads to most people solo'ing dungeons, instances and etc.
GustavoMsTrashCan 1 month ago
@GustavoMsTrashCan You can't solo a single dungeon in GW2. In case you didn't read the article from about a year ago on the Guild Wars 2 website, the first dungeon you get access to is at lvl 35 and dungeons are part of the endgame on the PvE side. They are designed to be challenging to any 5-man group.
You can probably solo small dynamic events and mob groups, but beyond that, nope.avi
TheKainMan 1 month ago
@GustavoMsTrashCan I have no proof, but from what devs were saying in Q&A, I don't think anyone could actually solo dungeons in GW2. It takes teamwork to do. Even when you are high level going in lower level dungeons, you will get side-kick system to the level of that dungeon. Also, dungeons won't be completly repeated cuz of dynamic events. They also offer various combo of 2 skills with other players to create new and powerful attack. Arrows pass wall of fire = flame arrows
Connen1 1 month ago
@GustavoMsTrashCan - You can't solo dungeons. You can solo most other things, with the exceptions being a good number of dynamic events (the Shatterer, for instance). I would MUCH prefer to spend time in an outpost "LF more" than "LF healer", which is basically what this switch is going to amount to.
I never joined a group outside of a dungeon the entire time I played WoW (2 months), despite hitting level 67 on one character. For lack of other players willing to quest. So...
ijustpostcomments 3 weeks ago
@ijustpostcomments whats really great is the "LF more" wont even take long, u only really need to for dungeons (becuz u dont need to group for DEs) and the max is 5
aperrotts 2 weeks ago
GW2 MIGHT be the LAST successful FANTASY MMO to launch.The fantasy scene is done though.People want something different,Sci-fi,Horror,modern settings."THE SECRET WORLD" Will be a sleeper hit.No classes,No lvls,no armor,clothes are cosmetic,Over 500 "unique"skills to earn and choose from.Guns,blades,magic.Encourages,investigation,exploration.supports solo play.All 3factions can PvE together.3 way meaningful PvP.GW2 is actually waiting to see if THE SECRET WORLD will launch in April.Theyre afraid.
F0rkb0y 1 month ago
I got great recognition as a healer in wrath. When im pulling out 12k HPS, with the fails as teammates doing 5. Guild wars 2 does have a better system, the only worry though is, how fast now will you die in 1 v 1's? / How long will 1 v 1's last with both players being able to heal themselves and damage. Also this new system is going to become heavily dependent on other players in PvP and PvE which can be worrying as in PvP many people are too shit to realize when to help others.
caniwatchavidplz 1 month ago
@caniwatchavidplz I agree...Like in pvp...if your are fighting and have 4 friends a nda group of 20 show up...their supportive and self heals will almost complete negate your damage... so it boils down to travel in as LARGE of a group as you possably can.
kirmmond 1 week ago
I used to be a World of Warcraft player just like you, then i got an Guild Wars 2 in the knee...
OCthe1011 1 month ago
Very well put togheter, I love it! :]
Tekna95 1 month ago
you have epic voice
coloreel 1 month ago
I think that the healer icon should have been carrying the other two.
geeca85 1 month ago
finally a great mmo that is not a wow clone!
comperko 1 month ago
my god... this is what ive been thinking for years.... he basically covered EVERYTHING..
epicguitarsolo 1 month ago 38
It's a so fucking true! Fuck the Holy trinity!
IGotsBadFeeling 1 month ago
1337 likes... must be true
werttingo 1 month ago
Very nice. Any metagamer worth his salt would agree with you.
tanukihat 1 month ago
I like how arena net finally have the balls to try something new what wow does works but it only works for them and copys will never live up to the real thing guildwars 2 is finally having a different system maybe it won't appeal to the every one at first but I think it has the potential to switch up how all mmos will work from now on
AnxiousFTW 1 month ago
@AnxiousFTW No, finally a company who has BALLS finally stepped up and replaced the system and tried something new. Not to mention TAKING THEIR TIME with Guild Wars 2. Thank god for ArenaNet!
SirMirex7 1 month ago
People still dont understand that the abolishment of a holy trinity will not get rid of "tanks, healers, and damage dealers." Rather the roles will still be there, but can be switched on the fly. In GW2, I can be a support ranger, think of a hunter in wow with a holy tree, the option to support your teammates is there, but if your comfortable doing damage, that option is there too. Every class can viably fill every role, so grouping up evokes the "Bring the player not he class mentality."
Cityguy193 1 month ago
@Cityguy193 every class must do everything in order to succeed in killing a boss, there are no talent trees that specify a "way of playing a class" all classes have their own ability that can "self heal". for example: The warrior has a simple castable while moving self heal, where as the necromancer has a blood minion that can be summoned and sacraficed when not needed to heal the necromancer. Each class also has the ability to help/defend others, but not directly heal or tank. anyway who cares
mesahatesayou 1 month ago
This is why I love Rift. Yes, you can play a pure damage dealer or a pure healer. But I play a senticar cleric. Which is a mix of sentinel, justicar and inquisitor. I use damage dealing attacks to generate convictions for group healing, I have strong single target healing for tank healing and I can deal some decent damage.
Shadowfolds 1 month ago
Games using the holy trinity IS teamwork games. Games not using holy trinity is SOLO games, look at GW1 for example and the Diablo games.
Teamwork exist only because there is different players with different roles or else its not team work.
fjolify 1 month ago
@fjolify Wait... what?
How is the holy trinity teamwork at all? All the dps ignore every other player (unless there is a specific event that says otherwise, rarely the case) they spam 1 2 3 and stand out of fire, tanks just hit taunt when they need to switch, and healers just stare at UI.
Everything, yes EVERYTHING, relies upon the 2 or 3 tanks and the healers. Without the trinity, everybody is switching aggro MANUALLLY (not hitting taunt) and you wont fail cuz a few people die.
Shamadamun 1 month ago
@fjolify It would seem you have never played GW1 to make such a remark.
Trancecend 1 month ago
@fjolify So you are saying... dependence on specific classes is team work? I want to do a dungeon, but we need a healer ~stands in outpost spamming for hours~... Tank doesn't give a shit about anything else unless the healer heals him/her, DPS just attacks because that's all he/she is good for. The healer, well who gives a fuck about the healer unless he/she is doing the job. See what I mean?
Guild Wars 2 is getting rid of the DEPENDENCE between classes. Not getting rid of the Holy Trinity.
SirMirex7 1 month ago
@fjolify Gw1 for starters had the holy trinity system, so right their it shows you have no ideal what you are saying.
Second sorry no, this is a new system where all class's have to be able to do all the roles when needed, are the team will die.
So it makes the team be able to work together to have a plan of what to do when needed.
Instead of just healing tanking and dps.
nisteven 2 days ago
If anything, they will have to make sure every class has similar survivability, which is impossible.
Their system won't work unfortunately.
mitracia12 1 month ago
Yeah, I agree with this entirely. My favorite character was my druid during early days so I could swap around and do whatever needed to be done. I've not played wow for ages now.
Brettah31 1 month ago
I am sooooooooooooo happy that this system won't be in GW2, played Healer in Aion, Tank in Wow and Rift... when it came to Heroic/expert dungeons it was hell.... even if the wipe wasn't my fault, they all blamed me... and when I went dps, I never had dps high enough... even if we were doing a flawless dungeon.... stupid childish community.....
Empir37 1 month ago
I've played wow since it came out, on and off, with breaks towards the last couple of years. The game is becoming stagnant and being aimed towards a mass audience of casual players and the skill seems to be less of a requirement. Guild Wars 2 is the first game since wow that really has caught my attention and I love the fact the way your character will perform is based on personal skill, tactics and teamwork with no definitive role but the ability to adapt your style to what's needed at the time
Cheesymunky 1 month ago
I agree that the basics of the holy trinity do not work, but if done right in a game it can. The system just needs to be balanced. GW2 will have the option to go down a specific route just in case you do want to play a certain role.
devidedkongpow2 1 month ago
I agree with you. I played a mage in wow for 4.5 years and quit in wotlk because of how stupid arenas became when hybrids could do everything better than you. It was frustrating running around a pillar with 2.5 sec cast spells when hybrids had 1.5 cast times and could heal and cc and not run oom like me.
Then I moved to aion that has no structured pvp and is zerg vs zerg. I LOVE the sorcerer in that game, but the game sucks because of the zergs and gear imbalances and dev team not caring.
jrg305 1 month ago
Continuing on that thought, a lot of that is accomplished by rewarding "clutch" skills instead of "spammy" skills. I think the whole existence of "rotations" is kind of a problem unto itself - there's no adapting to the situation.
I think much of the problem lies with poor AI for the PvE in many games. If the AI acted less like an RPG and more like an action game, perhaps many of these problems would go away.
FaceD0wnDagon 1 month ago
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I agree, but only when heroes/characters are pigeonholed into doing EXCLUSIVELY one thing. For example, if you look to other genres with fantasy backgrounds - say, the DotA-like games - you'll see characters who are very interesting and have a MAIN role and place on a team, but during the off-time between using the skills that define their role, they just do whatever's needed for that particular fight. If I'm a healer and need to kite and attack for a while, I can do that. But that's PvP, too.
FaceD0wnDagon 1 month ago
tankypoo ... lmao
SanguineBullet667 1 month ago
I'd like to see a different system to the Holy Trinity, but I haven't seen anything that would work. Dragon Nest was an MMO with incredible combat and no Trinity in place, but the end result was that EVERYONE was "DPS that can dodge". This had even LESS teamwork, as there was no difference between soloing content and going as a group other than, in groups, more damage was being done and enemies might attack your teammates instead of all focusing on you. I prefer the Holy Trinity to that.
Nebetsu 1 month ago
@Nebetsu : Look at what Guild Wars 2 is doing. They're doing something rather new and hopefully it'll work.
Halofreakanoid 1 month ago
You make some good points, but the Holy Trinity, when done correctly and not bastardized, is the best system for a multiplayer online game. You contradicted yourself when you said that when you were a Paladin who could switch from DPS, heals, and tanking, it was teamwork. This is the exact opposite since you could self-sustain yourself. You don't have to worry about your party if they can do the same thing. The problem is tedious rotations, broken/unbalanced classes, and no bonuses for teamwork.
TF2andL4D2 1 month ago
Yes there are no healers or tanks in GW2 but there will be the ones with more supportive skills and ones who are more beefy and take more dmg before they die. You can't run from that.
lithuanianMD 1 month ago
5:40 haha that's so true mages spam arcane blast through the whole dungeon :D it's so funny to look at the damage meters and see the mage at 1st place with 98.5% dmg done of arcane blast.
lithuanianMD 1 month ago
rl friends are overrated and srsly gtfo noob we dont need scrubs like u
baggeghfreak 1 month ago
Speaking as a warrior, paladin, and death knight tank in WoW, I wish the holy trinity would fucking die.
zachmazur 1 month ago
Yes! This is why I'm not playing SWTOR. And honestly it doesn't even fit into the lore either! TOR plays it safe and keeps it boring ;)
ReadThisDerp 1 month ago 3
This has been flagged as spam show
what if our expectations for guild wars 2 is out of proportion. What if the game is going to suck? It makes me sad just thinking about it. But its reality.
Daniil101 2 months ago
I've never been able to put that in words but its the a terrible design flaw in MMOs these days. Cant wait for GW2. :D
Tydus1313 2 months ago 53
Its a stupid system in any mmo.
japie11234 2 months ago
I hate the holy trinity system because if you cant do any of the three very good you get bullied to the brink of suicide.
Envy972 2 months ago
I played WOW for 5.5 years and burned out hard for many of the reasons you explained in this video. The fact that GW2 is doing away with this system and is not a paid subscription game are why I am going to give it a try. I played SWTOR for a few says in BETA and it is WOW with a Star Wars shell. I found myself feeling agitated in SW just like in WOW, because it is WOW. I am so tired of the HT system, GW2 will be a nice break from it.
Rexhungus 2 months ago
+1 to you for Kickstart my Heart
topanteon 2 months ago 2
Top comment makes me /facepalm. Did he even play vanilla?
PrivateLJenkins 2 months ago
I know ALL about this, yet I still find it enjoyable to watch.. bravo. I look forward to seeing your Guild Wars 2 footage in the future.
Massy012 2 months ago in playlist More videos from Alexrediculous
I agree to this, but there's one thing about the "trinity" that I like. I'm a lazy person, and most of the times I stay at the back and wait for my teammates to do the killing. I can only achiev that by being a healer :)
andreigall 2 months ago
Ok, I can agree with not having 100% DPS, Tanks or Healers
But around 75% of one role..
Cause seriously, Scholars have low armor for a reason and it would be rediculous if they could tank..
DaynNightGaming 2 months ago
@DaynNightGaming yes but that just forces the Scholars classes to be more mobile either dodge danceing or kiting
wikisome 2 months ago in playlist More videos from Alexrediculous
@DaynNightGaming Well for instance elementalists have the earth attunement which is pretty much their "defensive" stance and Necromancer's have incredibly huge health pools and alot of life-stealing abilities.
And you gotta remember this isn't WoW, who knows how important basic damage mitigation will be
Shamadamun 2 months ago
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OneEJ91 2 months ago
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Thanks for making this video! I agree with most of the points you've raised, as a player of WoW for the past 7 years too.
I'm actually relatively surprised that Blizzard didn't choose to slowly break the Holy Trinity system, and chose instead to design around it. The main reason I'm not playing SWTOR is also because of the Holy Trinity - I've played such a game for 7 years, I don't want to play another one.
Here's hoping GW2 starts the end of the Tank-Healer-DPS system.
MetaRam 2 months ago
Well constructed argument, friend. I've concluded much of the same based on my own WoW experience. Thanks for tightening it all into one succinct package. Who knows, maybe someone at Blizzard is watching!
chameleeon 2 months ago
theres plenty of teamwork involved with playing dps in pvp
Brickedbeat 2 months ago
@Brickedbeat U do realize he was talking about pve coz thats thats what holy trinity is about...
haczu86 2 months ago
@haczu86 the trinity does come into play in pvp they function a bit differently though
you still have a healer to heal the group, you have people dealing damage and you usually have a tank for a flag carrier.
theninjachannel 2 months ago
Its really not that WoW or mmo's in general are hard,
They're like trying to do one of those shape peg games while having to work with a bunch of retarded people who are constantly shouting and throwing shit at each other.
OcoryustheBold 2 months ago
Another side effect of the Holy Trinity is that Healing output becomes completely insane. Healers have to keep up Tanks vs. Raid bosses that put out DPS that far exceeds anything players can deliver.
So when these same Healers enter PVP environments like Battlegrounds and Arenas, they become almost unkillable because they can heal themselves and their allies faster than the enemy can damage them. And that makes them absolutely required for PVP.
Bankstercide 2 months ago
@Bankstercide Actually, ANet mentioned this very thing in one of their articles. Which is why they decided to do away with dedicated healers like the Monk.
Bankstercide 2 months ago
In WoW, under the Holy Trinity system, there were 3 requirements:
1: Gear requirements (especially for resist fights)
2: Group Comp and Spec
3: Knowing boss mechanics
Once these requirements were met, content quickly became trivialized with a bit of practice and going to "farm status".
But most WoW players didn't mind because progression was measured in gear, not content. But in GW2, where there is less gear dependency, this state of affairs would not be acceptable.
Bankstercide 2 months ago
@Bankstercide Because players can fill all roles and because there are no threat mechanics in GW2, player coordination and preparation is vital. Too many Sword Warriors because of condition stacking limits? Simple, have the other Warriors swap out their weapons. Not enough group support skills in your utility and healing skills slots? Change them out to best suit the fight mechanics and group playstyle.
You could not do this in WoW because specs provided fixed capabilities.
Bankstercide 2 months ago
i love you
gtowntreyble 2 months ago
Some of your points were valid, but some were WoW specific such as tanks outputting too much threat, or healers having nearly limitless mana or hybrids being stupid.
In other games these issues were never problems. Even in early WoW, these issues didn't exist. Tanking Molten Core in Vanilla in blues was bloody hard and you lost aggro all the time.
SWilliamJackson 2 months ago
@SWilliamJackson That's true - if your DPS didn't use a threat meter addon back then, you'd be in big trouble.
But the point stands that Threat mechanics are utterly broken. Why? Because it's too hard to balance. Either you make threat gen too powerful and most tanking becomes trivial, or you make it too weak and content becomes brutally hard. In fact, many boss mechanics revolved around dropping and wiping threat as a way of adjusting difficulty.
Bankstercide 2 months ago
World of Warcraft... We had a good run. Off to Guild Wars 2!
DirtRacerProductions 2 months ago 74
"if your tank doesn't show up for raids" everything goes to hell.
OsirisNO 2 months ago
@SirPunchy In GW2 you don't have to wait for specific roles to be in your party to progress through content. In WoW you have to wait hours. In GW2 if someone gets into "down state" or dies, can get revive by any player and keep on fighting. Even if a player its dead theres still 4 other that can heal/support each other and themselves securing a chance to finish the dungeon. In WoW the Healer or Tank dies theres a wipe for sure.
OdltsRnk2 2 months ago 2
to put it simple its like healer is useful but ignored if not then blamed on when something goes wrong. tank is very important but few people play as them so groups are waiting for hours for a tank. and damage dealers just well deal damage.
hartham444 2 months ago
whats the intro music?
arandomguy9 2 months ago
Have to agree with the vid. This system realy doesnt offer much - its simply easy to implement and has become a fundamental part of MMO's so everyone does it. Not because its good but because its expected.
Zulandar 2 months ago
i feel with you i played tankadin 2 and my guild raged if i didn't came to raid. Holy trinity suck
gamerkid609 2 months ago
Agreed. it's a flawed mechanic based on poor interpretation of pen and paper RPG rules from back when MMOs first started. MMO developers over the years have been too risk-averse to attempt getting rid of the mechanic even when it didn't fit with their MMO setting. Superheroes and jedi are not known for constantly healing teammates but we see that in City of Heroes and SWTOR. It's long past time this lame and stupid mechanic went the way of the dinosaurs like so many old-school mechanics.
RSatAustin 2 months ago 54
Do you know what a vagina feels like?
Slipknotro123 2 months ago
@Slipknotro123 world of warcraft
Megomavlian 2 months ago
@Slipknotro123 Watch out guys...we got a bad ass here!
Hayward000 2 months ago
This why i'm looking forward to GW2 so much, everyone can run into teh fight and actually....fight and when you see your friend getting hurt you back off and help him then get back to fighting. Sure there are people who like to have a role like a tank or support but you can still do that, you can still set it up, if you want to hang abck and be support you can, and you can do it as any class. this reminds me alot of the freedom of the FPS games
Jstudly771 2 months ago
@Jstudly771 Yep. The game is very inviting for people to just have fun together and learn that it's ok to have others fight with you, even if they're not in your party. They'll be able to learn a more responsive skill for action, rather than sitting around planning on what certain people should be doing. And for those in a party such as for cases like with dungeons, they'll still be able to organize to decide whom can play whatever role they need covered & without worry about not having a class.
DisturbedKoala 2 months ago
haha looks like a penis at beginning
wowaylol193 2 months ago
@wowaylol193 What a weird penis you have!
OsirisNO 2 months ago
@OsirisNO hm, indeed.
wowaylol193 2 months ago
good job..100% agree with u! : )
johsow 2 months ago
It kind of feels sad i never started to play wow in vanilla or TBC. Seems like a blast for everybody
OCthe1011 2 months ago
i just can't agree more with everything you said in this video. i felt like i need to at least leave a comment to respect the thoughts and opinions you put into this system theory. you've totally bought me over with all your videos - hoping very much to see and know you in game when GW2 is out =) respect sir
Rethon 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Ladies and gentlemen, I present the world's only intelligent mmo player.
OcoryustheBold 3 months ago
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OcoryustheBold 3 months ago
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OcoryustheBold 3 months ago
Role playing game.
BlackwaterGuild 3 months ago
@BlackwaterGuild Yep, it'll be a true MMORPG. :]
DisturbedKoala 3 months ago
I played wow for a couple of years on and off I never could figure out what made me quit this last time and this video explains it I never realised that i didn't like dps because you aren't unique and can be replaced healers don't get noticed unless someone messes up then you get blamed 90% of the time and when tanking if you make one big mistake you get screamed at.
Alkenes130 3 months ago
@Alkenes130 All mmo games up until recent times have had these same problems. However Gw2 is one of those new games that addresses these problems with its remarkable combat & class system. :]
DisturbedKoala 3 months ago
ya sucks when the tank dies and everyone blames you >_<
3lprim0 3 months ago
@3lprim0 Actually the 90% of the wipes fault is for the healer, then 9.99% for the tank and the rest for dps. Some people don't understand our job as healer is keep alive everyone as long as they are receiving damage possible to heal. They don't understand every fight have a point where the heal can't keep alive the people because either way they are taking to much damage or all are taken to much damage at the same time... no interrupts, standing on fire, etc
OneEJ91 3 months ago 2
@OneEJ91 exactly y also hate when they think I have an infinite mana pool
3lprim0 2 months ago
awesome video !
Schoening91 3 months ago
Where really good at what they do
bottleogravedigger 3 months ago
Would LOVE to see GW2 pve raid content or even play one because i heard GW2 has no tanks or healers so its more player based not class based
hellwave100 3 months ago
@hellwave100 There are no raids like there are in WoW for instance. There are dungeons, 6-man instances which branching exploration-modes allowing for better replayability. Out in the world there are events like that Shatterer and others that require hordes of players to complete, which is pretty epic boss-battle like, just without all the annoying hours of trashmobs first.
SagelikeOne 3 months ago
@hellwave100 Gw2 will have plenty of options as far as classes go for players with different tastes, but what I think you mean is that it will not be as heavily "role" based as other games are. :] There of course will be times where players will dynamically switch their role on the fly during combat as needed, but none of the classes has you stuck in a single role such as support. And nobody can force you to be a single role, unless you joined a player guild that ordered you to do so. lol
DisturbedKoala 3 months ago
@hellwave100 Just because you go out there to do your job and only your job, doesn't mean you aren't a team or you are not using teamwork. If the healer stops healing the tank, everyone dies. If the tank doesn't hold aggro, everyone dies. If the DPS doesn't kill a boss fast enough, the healers run OOM, and everyone dies. Seems like teamwork to me. I guess a football team isn't a real team because the QB doesn't cover receivers on defense or an offensive lineman doesn't run the post corner.
Baconstrip1978 3 months ago
@Baconstrip1978 I think utter dependency is the issue. If the tank dies, you wipe. If the healers die, you wipe. If all the DPS stand in fire, you wipe. Wouldn't it be nice to be able to take care of yourself and fill a different role in a snap if need be? You do what needs to be done in the moment, not just one tedious job. It's more dynamic that way.
AdaptiveReasoning 3 months ago
@Baconstrip1978 well am a tank and always has been , fast queues 1# needed in the server really felt like am needed for anything and must of all soloing quests and invasions (in Rift) is great specially when u having 50moobs on you unable to kill you.
am looking forward for the warrior and engineer class
hellwave100 2 months ago
I miss the crowd control classes from EverQuest. Enchanters and bards are gone in modern MMOs, which is what I happened to play. -_-
Connador 3 months ago
@Connador There are professions with strong control-powers in GW2, specifically the Guardian and Elementalist. Those might suit you.
SagelikeOne 3 months ago
@Connador There is one last class that has yet to be revealed for Gw2, so there is a chance that it is the class you yearn for.
DisturbedKoala 3 months ago
You sir, are a good sir.
NgohOiNei 3 months ago
Guild wars 2 is gonna be awesome! I didnt wanted to play wow anymore, cause like u say theres no teamwork in it when u play like a dps, wich i did. So i stopped paying. Holy trinity makes it all boring :(
Zeiclar1997 3 months ago
I totally agree
I hate the holy trinity as well
demonchains 3 months ago
I love you... You talk like a real pro. omg..
I just love you.. (no homo)
Thehiddengamer4 3 months ago
CANT WAIT FOR GW2!!! Gonna be guardian and have a staff as one of my weapons! Heavy Armor Mage FTW! Screw you unholy trinity!
ariodsenuke 3 months ago in playlist More videos from Alexrediculous
WELL... I just play wow for arenas & battlegrounds (thats why im on a private server - instant 80 full PVP)... after u lvled up 4-5 chars... grinding...farming... PVE in general became boring as fck!... So yeah in arena there isnt actually a trinity nor in bgs... its just dps & healers... & ofc IT requires a lot of skill... if u want a nice rating =). Anyway LFward to this game (Y)
luisjosp5 3 months ago
@Alexrediclous 100% correct on WoW. You hit the nail on the head. Vanillia WoW was great. Every class was unique, but ll could support, too.. Rogues could tank, shamans could tank or heal. However as you put it, Blizzard destroyed that style. It sucks now. I've already cancled my account, gladly. WoW's 'Golden Age' was in Vanillia/Burning Crusade. The game is sub-par now and anyone who attempts to argue otherwise doesn't know how good the game used to be, or possible what a good game even is.
NecroGhost123 4 months ago 49
@NecroGhost123
Could not agree more with the video and this reply to it.
elementzeroable 2 months ago
@NecroGhost123 From a pvpers stand point, I think Wrath was the golden age, but the game is just god awful now and is only getting worse.
dlj3cs2 2 months ago
I hated being a tank because of the gear heaviness it needed.
I hated being a healer because it was boring and even if I was doing fine and it was either the tank or dps causing the wipe, its my fault. Even if I die from tanks not keeping hate, its my fault. To make it worse - I couldn't do anything myself. I had to rely on others for kills.
I hated DPS because I'm just an extra leg. and a replaceable one at that.
I can't wait for Guild wars 2. No more holy trinity!
Shadechidna 4 months ago
great video, i like how much you talk and explain things, u seem a cool guy, hopefully ill see you in GW2 when we wont have to worrie about this holy trinity ish! i subbed!
GuidesOfGuildWars 4 months ago
I've favorited and commented on all of your most recent videos. I feel slightly like a creep, but I love seeing someone with thought and concern invested in the state of games. I couldn't agree more with the things that you say and I am incredibly glad that you take the time to try to say them as best as possible.
herrincardia 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
HAHAHA WHAT A SHIT GAME! GW2 is another bad WoW clone. They copied all the races from WoW, char = tauren, asura = gnomes, norn = bigger dwarfs, sylvari = night elfs. The classes? Also copied. Thief = rogue, ranger = hunter, elementalist = mage, necromancer = warlock!
LOL FAIL! Another shit korean grind fest game wannabe that wants to steal 5% of WoW's playerbase so that they also get people to pay them every month and make money!
Nothing can kill WoW, Fuck GW2 and Fuck GW players.
WOW = KING
WoWrapesGW2 4 months ago
I dislike healers, I hate supporting people because like you said, we don't get noticed until we either aren't there or die...
This is why I'm usually a Warrior/Tanker... I will be noticed, but when I fault in something, it's most likely we aren't rotating properly, or the healer isn't doing his/her job and therefore blame them for the loss... which isn't what MMOs are supposed to be... It's a community built up against each other and supporting one another, this is why Guild Wars 2 will rock!
SirMirex7 4 months ago
No Panda?
AznboiY2J 4 months ago
@AznboiY2J Yes, no Panda :)
schocoman3000 4 months ago
Yeah, I agree with you here basically right now I'm the most important healer of my guild, because i'm always there for raids as raid healer, better gear than the other, etc, and you know what? you're right, people only notice I'm there, when I'm not, I mean when I died because someone fault, or when one day I couldn't participate in a raid, other way I'm like a ghost there... Thats why I hate so much the ''holy trinity''
OneEJ19 4 months ago
I'm in total agreement, except in rift no one buy you anything, guilds tend to be obsessively elitist almost never helping anyone outside their guild or people would greed good loot you really need to improve your play but tanks and healers are sadly in short supply due to the fact they are to depended on and given little affection for what they do or take it it to far and try to use it to command everyone else just because they are required to get something done so GW2 looks to be awesome!
skyring7777 4 months ago
Dear sir,
Liked, Favorited, Subscribed, and /agreeeeeeeeeeee.
Strykethelight 4 months ago in playlist More videos from Alexrediculous
Good video, after playing wow and other mmo's I agree 100% with what was said. I think that also the holy trinity system also makes combat boring, you stand there and take DMG, heal or do DMG, very little though involved. I can't wait for a game that not only encourages dynamic combat but requires it. I wish more games would take a page out of gw2's book and do this.
jm579 4 months ago
you are pretty damn good at marketing this game, Alex
syrimatu 4 months ago
He's right it IS the holy trinity. Everything he says is stuff people are seen dealing with on a daily basis. Pretty dumb how people could call this video dumb or retarded when they cant accept the fact that holy trinity is a fail! Being able to support yourself with tanking/healing/dps is pretty much the simple solution to this problem so I dont understand simply why no one came up with this solution in the first place.
DanielMitchell117 4 months ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Dislike - This video was so stupid.
Sarnius26 4 months ago
@Sarnius26 DERP.
deaconx 4 months ago
@Sarnius26 herp
BloodShott22 4 months ago