The 12th round goes to Hagler on my card. My final scoring ended 115-114 in favor of Leonard. Watching this fight all the way through, theres no doubt Hagler inflicted a ton more damage than Leonard, but he could have done much more, he wasnt himself that night. Do I think SRL did enough to take the title? No. Absolutely not, and I don't really think that is debatable. When you go to the judges cards though, all you can do is go by the scoring, and Leonard won this fight on points just barely.
This fight was decided when Hagler gave away the first 2 or 3 rounds by fighting 'righty' and not taking Leonard seriously. That was idiotic and a colossal mistake.
Hagler started slow and may have dropped the first 3 rounds. But Leonard ran the whole time. Leonard also got real tired and Hagler won the last 4 rounds easily.
You can't run around the ring against the champ and win. Sorry.
This was a win for Hagler or a draw at worst. The champion has to get the benefit of the doubt in close matches and I did not think that Leonard did enough. Unfortunately the judges were swayed by Leonard's showboating and pitter patter punches which had ZERO power. Hagler was robbed.
I had Hagler winning this fight,I thought he needed to win the last round to avoid a draw and he did.Its a shame that the 12th Hagler lost it in most scorecard cause of that flurry Leonard threw when Hagler had him in the corner and because of the showboating!!!
What you mooks have to understand is Sugar fought the fight he needed to fight! Hagler let Leonard stay in the fight by not punching like he was suppose to do! Check out Hagler vs Mugabi, vs Simpson, vs Hearns! Check out how Hagler kept the pressure on by constantly punching, he didn't do that against Ray, he followed Ray but didn't keep the pressure on and he let Ray hit him and move
@vincespell The difference between Mugabi/Hearns and Sugar was that Sugar CONSTANTLY kept moving. He didn't sit here and fight with him like the other two did. Haglar didn't let hold back any punches, but he was trying to be careful not to punch himself out but ended up doing that anyway. The other two fights were brawls where as this fight was more him trying to keep up with Sugar. Sugar kept running around him and made him tire himself out and hit him with flurries.
@vincespell Saying Hagler "let Ray hit him and move" is negative. Either way, negative for Hagler is a positive for Leonard who did fight the way he needed to, as he always did with one exception. I think as time passes we forget how ferocious Hagler was. Before Leonard, only the Hall of Fame boxer, Roberto Duran even went the distance with the champion Hagler!
leonard won by to rounds ok alot of rounds were hard to call but overhall leonard won the first time i saw fight has a boy ithought hagler won now im older ive changed my mind i think leonard won
@fandingo69 The best way to score who wins a round in boxing,is to ask yourself which one of them you would rather be in that round.I scored this fight 9 to 3 and that was being generous to Hagler.Ray outclassed him totally
I agree this is the best fight of all. I picked this for a variety of reasons. It is the greatest comeback in all of sports history. Unlike the Brawl in Montreal of Thrilla in Manilla, it was not a brutal fight but one that shows the sweet science the best. The split decision means it can be reasonably debated. I scored it 7 rounds to 5, 115-113 for Leonard. Two rounds determined the fight. The 3rd and the 10th could have been scored even, which would make the fight a draw.
@johnlocke48060 i had it that who ever scored the 5th and 11th rounds would be decided the winner. all of them close. i scored it a draw at 114 114, but honestly it could have gone 115 113 either way.
Leonard won this fight in the prefight negotiation. A smaller ring and thumbless gloves were all in favor of Leonard. Hagler should have won this fight, but just agreed to everything instead of thinking.
Just watched the whole fight..and though I prefer a brawler over a boxer...I still had it 116-112 for Leonard..He controlled the fight and made Hagler look old and amateurish...All Hagler had to do to stop Leonards showboating was stick his glove into Leonards ribs everytime he did it..and the opportunity was there..EPIC FAIL for Hagler....Wish there was a rematch to this one..I think Hagler would have got him in the second one with just a little studying..
YEA I SAW THE FIGHT LIVE ON A CLOSED CIRCUIT THEATER SCREEN AND IT WAS CLOSE, BUT LENORD HAD ONE THING WHICH WAS MORE CONTROL OVER THE FIGHT, EVEN THOUGH HE WAS OFTEN DEFENSIVE AND BACKING AWAY, HE KEPT THAT IN CONTROL TO THEN LAUNCH HIS ATTACKS, SO YEA YOU CAN FEEL SORRY FOR HAGLER AND IT WAS CLOSE AND YEA THE SENTIMENT WAS UNFAIRLY MORE TOWARDS LEONARD BECAUSE HE WAS THE PRETTIER FIGHTER, BUT ALL THAT SAID, HE HAD ENOUGH OF A CONTROL EDGE ON THAT FIGHT TO BARELY BUT SUBSTANTIALLY WIN.
@whothehellgivesadamn The best way to decide who wins a round in boxing,is to simply ask yourself which of the 2 would you rather have been in that round.This was not a close fight at all.Leonard won by far!!
@onlyjoetee I saw the fight live on a big screen with an audience of five hundred people or whatever. The crowd was pulling for leonard, as I was....and yea you could also say hagler won.....it was a close fight, I'd give it to leonard but it was extremely close and could be called either way. I remember hagler said that after the fight in the ring, leonard hugged hagler and said "you beat me" it was that close....did leonard say that, who knows....i felt sorry for hagler afterwards though...
@whothehellgivesadamn i was in high school at the time,i also remember watching it live,Hagler didnt win shit,if Ray told him that he was bullshitting him.I gave Hagler the 5th and 2 of the middle rounds when Leonard was restingthe rest was all Sugar Ray..Its like i said,use this principle,every round,simply ask yourself,which one of these 2 would i rather have been in that round,and you will end up with at least 9 rounds for leonard easy.This was not a close fight at all!!!
@onlyjoetee If you read my comments, I already said I'd give it to leonard. What you're not getting was that Leonard had a certain showmanship that over ruled the fight. He was the prettier fighter, who sold more tickets, hagler was the schlub. What I'm saying and you're not getting was that, yea leonard won by a hair, but when you add his pretty showmanship, that margin increases. I already told you that I was pulling for lenoard and bet on lenard at the time, so i was happy when he won.
@whothehellgivesadamn No Sir,Leonard did not win by a hair,nor by selling tickets or showmanship.He was the better fighter all night by a mile,he won the first 4 so easily even he himself was surprised.The only time Marvin Hagler was in this fight was when Ray was resting,catching his,this wasnt close at all,thats my point.I gave Hagler 3 rounds and that was being generous to him.Anytime you watch a fight,use that principle per round.which would i rather have been,it really clears things up
@onlyjoetee When I saw it, i was already a full blown highly educated fighter, and it looked to me at the time that in reality although leonard was the prettier dancer, he really hadn't established much control over hagler, who looked like a schlub. What I'm saying is that lenard had an edge but at any time, say in the next round either one of them could have taken the other out. Hagler still had a lot left in him as he was pounding leonard, so it was closer on that basis. Leonard won on points.
@whothehellgivesadamn i get what you're saying,my point is,it wasnt by a hair,one judge had it 10 to 2,i had it 9 to 3.Hagler wasnt gonna take anything out except the trash when he got home LOL.If you watch it again,and you use my principle,(which would i rather have been in each round)Hagler would be lucky to get 3.hahahaha He was well beat,no doubt!!LOL
@onlyjoetee WHAT A DUMBO....YOU'RE STILL NOT GETTING IT....I BET ON LEONARD, I CHEERED WHEN HE WON....I JUST FELT SORRY FOR HAGLER, AND LEONARD WAS JUST LUCKY, IT MAY HAVE LOOKED LIKE HE WON BY A LOT TO YOU BECAUSE YOU FELL FOR THE HYPE....I SAW THE FIGHT ON A BIGGER SCREEN THEN YOU WITH A LOT MORE KNOWLEDGE OF FIGHTING THAN YOU....YEA LEONARD LOOKED GOOD, I FELT GOOD ABOUT IT, MANY IN THE CROWD I WAS IN WERE CHEERING FOR HAGLER, IN RETROSPECT LENOARD WON BY A HAIR AND GOOD LOOKS, THAT'S ALL.
@whothehellgivesadamn You still have NO idea about the principle of scoring boxing,and im a dumbo!You actually watched THIS fight and thought Leonard was Lucky!and im a dumbo!you consider yourself to have knowledge of fighting?where did you get this so called knowledge from?and in a dumbo!LOLWhat the fuck difference does it make who some drunken crowd cheered!You seriously watched this entire fight from round 1 to 12 and thought the winner won by a hair,looks& hype?AND IM THE DUMBO!hahahahaha
@whothehellgivesadamn Im trying to educate you on the principles of scoring boxing,and why the winning margin in this fight was certainly not a hair.Simple,watch round 1,at the end,pause,then think,in those 3 mins,which of those 2 men would i rather have been,AND WHY.Score that person 10 and the other 9,then do that again for round 2,3,4 etc to the end.Total it,and see if the difference is a hair!.EVen If you saw 2 guys fighting on the street,same,which would i rather be now AND WHY!simple
@whothehellgivesadamn Man, If you cant even decipher sarcasm and irony,how the hell you gonna make out who won a round in a boxing match?hahahahaha clearly you've taken too many punches hahahahahah
@whothehellgivesadamn You're a dumbo,duh,Leonard was lucky to win because he was goodlooking?hahahahaha Man you're too fucking stupid to even argue with,goodbye hahahahaha
@whothehellgivesadamn is a perverted schizophrenic web troll. I made him extremely angry by exposing his lies in a thread. He now attacks me. Now I am telling you what he tries to hide. Visit his YouTube site and see for yourself. He is a pathological liar. Google his web name and view his sickness. He lives in the third world Sri Lanka, but pretends he lives in the USA. His current Flickr album of Sri Lanka and his family is very weird. His YouTube site is also very disturbing.
@Whothehellgivesadamn is a PERVERT and a QUEER, given he takes singing lessons and yoga and has failed political ideas. He says he is from the USA, but his Flickr site puts him in Sri Lanka. See his photo album, he IS definitely from Sri Lanka. Click on his name and see his YouTube site and his pervertion. He is a LIAR, a FAKE and a WEB TROLL. Click on his name above and you will see all of his PERVERTED posts! No doubt he is an orphan bastard who thinks the CAP KEY gives him power, the pervert.
@whothehellgivesadamn is a PERVERT and a QUEER, given he takes singing lessons and yoga and has failed political ideas. He says he is from the USA, but his Flickr site puts him in Sri Lanka. See his photo album, he IS definitely from Sri Lanka. Click on his name and see his YouTube site and his pervertion. He is a LIAR, a FAKE and a WEB TROLL. Click on his name above and you will see all of his PERVERTED posts! No doubt he is an orphan bastard who thinks the CAP KEY gives him power, the pervert.
@whothehellgivesadamn Did you know this guy is also an expert in all of the following: world class driver, boxer, superb athelete, musician, yoga expert, singer as he states in other threads! Just Google his name for a real treat to see how a sick mind works. This guy if so full of BS and the worst kind of web troll.
@whothehellgivesadamn Please explain how you are an expert in all of the following: world class driver, boxer, superb athelete, musician, yoga expert, singer as you state in other threads! Just Google this guys name for a real treat to see how a sick mind works. You are so full of BS and the worst kind of web troll.
Leonard NEVER agreed a rematch with Hagler, because he knows Hagler would kick his @zz. For me, you can never take the crown by jabbing, running and hugging.
THose of you who say that SRL didn't won this fight, have no idea of what boxing is. To win a fight, you need to have a knock out. You need to have a plan in the ringg, and that's exacty what Leonard had. At elast that night, SRL was the better man. He won 7-5, or 8-4.
Leonard ran way too much to win this fight. Almost as bad as when Dela Hoya ran from Trininad. Personally I had it 116-112 for Hagler! The rounds that Leonard actually won, he threw a lot of punches in those rounds, pitty pat punches, but a lot of punches. But overall Hagler won a majority of the rounds in this fight. Leonard won because of his image of a cocky and flamboyant personality, he didn't win because of what he did in this fight. But in reality, Hagler won this fight!
@Banghouse No, I watched the fight with my eyes and a boxing enthusiast mind-frame. Hagler beat the guy up. If they were running the 40 meter dash, then yes Leonard would have won. But since this was a boxing match, Hagler won this hands down.
Marvin Hagler had 12 rounds to knock this guy out and couldnt do it...thats saying something in itself. Because of that he got outboxed for the majority of the match. He lost on points to a superior "BOXER" point, blank, period! Not to mention Sugar Ray Leonard won over the crowd with his amazing display of skill, guts, and HEART.
@akaTheWave Interesting how opinions are so polarized watching the same fight. Seems obvious that leonard came in with a strategy to win with evasiveness,precision strikes and high volume. Hagler's big weapon was his power. Leonard took that away. It was masterful. Hagler wins a toe to toe brawl,but he was not clever enough,and his handlers were not astute enough to make an adjustment to Leonard. Leonard,not unlike Ali,combined intelligence and psychological warfare with his boxing skill.
This fight was close, but I still think the decision went the wrong way. As the old saying goes, you're not given the title you have to take it. Ray was a great fighter, but he carefully did the absolute bare minimum to win, and definitely didn't take the fight to Hagler, or take his title away. It's as if the judges, and even commentator Gil Clancy, thought the title was Leonard's to begin with and Hagler was an outsider who had to earn it in this fight. Thus to me, a bad decision.
3/4 of the punches Leonard threw did not land. Hagler landed harder punches and hurt Leonard. Leonard never once hurt hagler. Leonard homers think every punch he throws lands. Ask them who felt worse the next day. Hagler wore his ass out.
@spyder2535 are you blind? leonard landed more of his punches then hagler, hagler missed some punches with leonard openly presenting his chin, the stats were was follows, Leonard threw 629 punches and landed 306, while Hagler threw 792 and landed 291 search it up if you think im lying.
@JTVmoses526, that's largely irrelevant; most of Willie Pep's, Nicolino Locche's or Tommy Loughran's opponents walked through their punches without too much trouble, too. Doesn't mean they weren't still getting their ears boxed off by them. Leonard 116-112 for me. Everyone moans that Leonard "ran" all night, but when Hagler caught up he was countered (something people seem unable to grasp) and made to look clumsy. Hagler didn't really hurt Leonard, either, perhaps round 9 aside. No robbery here.
@JTVmoses526, I was watching a BOXING match, as you asked. Not a 'who can hurt who most' match. Leonard's hospital check over is pretty routine and would have been a result of accumulated damage - there was not a single time where he looked in serious trouble. Sorry, just don't see how anyone can have Hagler winning. He huffed and puffed all night while hitting thin air WAY too often. There's a difference between aggression and effective aggression. He didn't get going until the mid rounds.
@JTVmoses526 Hard fight to score. It should probably have been scored a draw. I just don't think Ray really "won" the fight. I don't feel that Marvin "lost", but I also don't feel like Marvin dominated Ray or anything. But I know the reason there wasn't a rematch is because Marvin didn't want 1. He knew nothing would change & that if anything, because of age he'd be even slower the 2nd time around. All in all, both fighters did about as well as they could. They deserved a draw.
@FPSpreston Here's a better question. Would you rather be hit 306 times by Leonard, or 291 times by Hagler? Let's think a little about who hit harder and who was running away and throwing pitty-pat punches for 12 rounds.
leonard is a flash in the ring he avoids easily haglers fists so thats why he won the fight.he fought defensively .... box has rules that you must accomplish and what i really think is that in a street fight hagler would win the fight cause there is no much escaping and there is no referi to save them you can avoid a lot but the fist will always get you and knock you for me hagler is stronger than leonard in a real fight thats the true way to determine who really is the strongest
116-112 Leonard. Still can't believe that anyone thinks that Hagler won this fight. Did Leonard fight defensively? Yes. Did Leonard use his cannyness rather than his underrated punching power? Yes. Does any of this add points to Hagler's score? NO! And for those saying that Leonard was a coward who was scared to fight, take a look at his fights with Benitez, Duran, Hearns and LaLonde. He was a rock-hard fighting man.
118-110??? It wasn't that clear cut, he might have sneaked it but even thats debatable. I think personally it was a draw, Hagler did most of the work, Leonard threw good combos. I couldn't choose betwen them
NOthing against Hagler, He was a great fighter!! But Leonard was better. There is nothing wrong with twisting and turning to get away from punches. Mayweather does it all the time.
Leonard had more talent and ability. What's disappointing is that Hagler couldn't be a man and give it to Leonard. Hagler to prove his point left boxing and moved to France to make movies. He had 2 to 3 more years of boxing left in him.
@planesx12 Hagler beat the hell out of leonard. Period! That fight was rigged. Leonard held and hit with low blows all night and never got a point taken. If i was the ref I would have told leonard "the next time you hold behind the neck, hit low or punch after the bell, I will take a round, not a point". Leonard got his ass whooped baddd!!!
Leonard is a complete coward to flee to avoid and to flee the whole combat, to do the clown and few mas, a verguenza that they were giving to him(her) winner, hagler sei a myth, in a combat of equal it destroys equal marvin
Leonard is a complete coward to flee to avoid and to flee the whole combat, to do the clown and few mas, a verguenza that they were giving to him(her) winner, hagler sei a myth, in a combat of equal it destroys equal marvin
I am not sure why people argue much about this fight. I found it quite easy to score. Hagler didn't even do anything until round 5. Leonard took 1-4, 6, 10-12 Hagler took 5,7, and 9. Round 8 was hard to score and very close. Easy way, SRL on points easy....
@cykodave5 Totally agree with you. Honestly, I'm still wondering why people still argue that SRL didn't win. SRL clearly won rounds 1,2,3,4,11..rounds 8 and 12 he also he also won them, but a bit closer. That's 115-113 SRL winning. And I gave HAgler round 6, thought it could have gone either way.
i had round 1 even because there was no offense ray circled to much 2-4 for leonard 5-8 hagler 9 leonard 10 hagler 11 leonard 12 hagler. In alot of rounds hagler blocked leonards flurries and landed inside shots to the body.
I'm not saying Leonard isn't great i'm a huge fan of both guys, but Hagler was robbed... Period!!!! Landed the cleaner harder punches, Leonard just threw flurries, clinched and ran!!! Does Angelo Dundee really annoy anyone??? This guy was just a glorified cheerleader!!!
man you need your eyes testing there no way haglar won this fight he was slow diddnt seem to have a game plan just kept trying to walk him down srl laned by far the better punches won pro judge scored it 110 118 i cant belive eny1 thinks haglar won it tommy hearns was robbed in the rematch against lenoed i had that fight 115 2 111 tommy hearns
I hate to say it, and I really do(cuz I'm not a Leonard fan), but Hagler lost this fight. He was 'supposed to at least knock Leonard down. 1.Leonard was NEVER a true Middle.2.Hadn't fought in 3yrs.3.Torn Retina. Hagler is one of the best Middles of all time, why he came out orthodox against Ray... Hagler looks old here, Leonard knew this going in(see Hagler vs.Mugabi).If they had fought 3yrs earlier, Hagler would have won.
Haha, you just don't get it, that's why there are like 2-3 people who still watch boxing...too many runners. And Sugar isn't an artist, he's a biotch, he got hit with so many more actual punches, while slapping Hagler's arms and gloves quickly...he has one actual effective flurry getting out of the corner in rd 12, which is why I gave him that round. But for sure he should have lost points for holding and maybe even that low bolo in rd 4.
First 4 to leonard, 5-11 Hagler with a point taken away from leonard in both rounds 9 and 10 for holding and the 12th going back to leonard. Hagler by landside....
Leonard....a coward, always a running coward. I can almost read puerto rico all over this miserable guy. Points should be taken from running cowards like this; that would be the way to compensate for the bad and frustrating kind of show these types give to the audience-fans. Boxing should force fighters to fight, not to evade fighting. Rewarding some one for running all over the ring should stop; avoiding being hit is one thing: evading fighting is another.
PART 1 this is from an unbiased fan of both fighter and boxing. i have only watched the full fight for the first time because i was just 5 yr old when the fight happened.. I have always heard of the debate (eg. that hagler won the fight. that hagler threw solid punches, while leonard the flashy ones), so i decided to watch the fight closely.
I scored it round for round and I would say it was very close indeed. It could have gone either way.......
Sugar ran like a chicken..gotta give the fight to Marvelous. I was always bored by Leonard not manning up to power punchers.( Like myf ather always said...he was a freaking clown in the ring.)
classic fight that what u expect from sugar ray 2 selection of the top men in the middleweight that u very much hagler leonard and gastation23 will subscribe
Marvellous Marvin Hagler deserves his name but not for this fight. He looked old and slow.
Hagler was the natural middleweight and the active fighter. Leonard never fought at middleweight before and had 1 fight in 5 years.
So why didnt Hagler fight him the way he fought Hearns? Maybe Leonard's mind games worked on him or maybe like Duran before Hagler paid him too much respect. Hagler lost by losing the early rounds & having to play catch up.
hagler does deserve some of the blame. Since ray's waiting paid off, Hagler was too shot by this time and didnt get leonard's respect early in the fight the way Norris did. ray disrespected hagler early on becuz Hagler's power was non existant. He wasnt able to do that with Norris becuz Terry hurt him early in round 1, put him down in round 2, and hurt him badly round 3. Terry took complete control from that point on. By putting Ray in his place early in a fight, that's how you beat him
Ray leonard is only a coward fearfully and agitator, alone despicable COWARD can run, this is a boxing not athletics, leonard deberia to be a champion of 100 smooth meters.
HAGLER always sera the big champion mas of the whole history of the medium ones
Hagler lost the fight for 2 reasons: Threw away the 2 first rounds fighting orthodox. And settled on 12 rounds instead of 15. He wasn't smart enough, in my opinion, and got suckered on both these issues.
I feel really bad for Hagler. I believe Leonard won (6-5-1, or 115-114), but he had such a hard time, hile SRL got 40,000 dollars for his pro debut...
I am a huge fan of both, but would have liked Hagler to fight Leonard like he did Hearns, he would KO Leonard in round 5 or 6. But he has only himself to blame for losing to Sugar Ray.
For me, Leonard fought a very negative fight. If he'd punched more and held less I would let it pass. There's no way he was ever going to hurt Hagler. A points win based on superior boxing is a respectable play but Leonard did too much holding and running and considering the shit Hagler went through in his career compared to Leonard's easy ride, there's no justice in him losing to Leonard that way.
Bullshit Leonard threw a lot of punches in this fight. In many rounds he throws more and lands more than Hagler. Look at rd 11 and count how many punches Leonard throws and lands.
Gil Clancy trained hall of fame champions and did hundreds of fightas at ringside and he said it was a miraculous performance. I agree.
@finndudaniec that's terrible analysis on so many levels. should leonard give hagler the fight because hagler had a tougher life? come on. leonard put on a skillful display. yes, he employed some slightly dirty tactics but boxing is not a tickling contest. hagler lost this because he failed to learn what was working. his right lead/jab was effective but he only used it 3 or 4 rounds. he was missing an open target, even when leonard wasn't moving. who's fault is that? hagler froze, and lost.
I only go by what I see and what I saw was that TNT Norris beat the more experienced-heavy favorite-five time Champion-unbeaten in 11 years Sugar Ray Leonard in a Clay Liston type upset
He shook up the world! He shook up Ray Leonard! he shook up the press! He shook up KO and Ring Magazines!
after all, SRL fans arent really fans of the sport to begin with. what do they know? they got their start late and just go around masquerading like they know their shit but its easy to spot them with all the ignorant things they say
The only way I could score that fight 118-110 is if it was in Haggler's favor, there was no way that I felt that Leonard won that fight in such a close deicison. I personally had 2 rounds, and a draw for Haggler, the last round I gave to Haggler for Leonard running like a girl, he's not fighting on the outside. and those flurries were most block and soft punches where Haggler's was diligent 1 hard shot at a time when his punches weren't gassed, excessive holding from Leonard was another factor
118-110..that was total bullshit!! I love both these Hall Of Famer's...but Hagler did lose this fight..he should of attacked like he did Hearns!!, also if Ray fights him 3 years before..85' or 84..Hagler would have got him by 6 rounds! Marvin I love you more..but you lost this one my brother & I lost $100 on your ass!
I'm a big Leonard fan and the judges decision speaks for itself. Being aggressive is not grounds for winning a fight. Leonard made Hagler miss by miles throughout the fight, whilst aggressively unloading cpmbinations on Hagler's head.
Hagler won albeit not his best performance. America likes flash and dancing and Leonard was clearly the one on his heals in this fight. In order to beat the man you have to beat the man. Leonard did NOT beat the man.
Very valid comment ballisticbliss, he fought a cowards fight really. But he was clever and he knew if he fought like this against a fading Hagler, he'd win!
Leonard beat Hagler but it was close. I did'nt like Leonard for beating Hagler but it was a great achievement. I don't think Leonard would have beaten an in prime Halgler, he would have cut the ring off better. He was a master at doing that in his day.
Maybe in your dreams but Im talking real life. I never saw Ray play with any opponent including Howard or Kalule or Geraldo. How come?
Norris would kick ass on Ray's best day becuz Ray could not handle speed like this gr8. His left hook too quick to see coming, his uppercut there is no defense. it was Norris' uppercut that send Leonard into a nosedive rounds 3 on. Terry ruined him physically and was a damaged fighter mentally who could not rebound. Norris took his heart away & ate him alive
2 bad Ray couldnt to the same as Jackson. He had none of Jackson's attributes as a fighter that brought him success against Norris. He lacked the powerful build Jackson had and also his tenactiy and will to win. Jackson proved himself in that fight and in the Graham fight with a burning will to win. And he could pull it out when sorely pressed. Ray couldnt. Rl wasnt a fighter who excelled at pressuring another man. It was difficult for him and let's face it, he was just a runner
you say Sugar ray going to play with Norris. That is what I dont understand!
Ray Leonard was heavily favored to beat Norris andTerry beat him outright-no controversy.
Ray could never beat Norris if they fought ten times if they fought 11 times. He had his hands full with Kevin Howard and Kevin retired him. a 20-4 welterweight much smaller that dropped RL. Norris would annihilate Leonard no matter where no matter when. Ray could NOT handle speed-that is a fact!
You have no clue about boxing. LOL! Norris beat fighters that were past it or damaged goods, Taylor, Leonard, Curry! He will be remembered for nothing whereas Leonard is a popular 5 weight world champion that will go down in history. And in some peoples opinion, one of the greatest of all time. Enough said!
that depends how you look at it. if you are a leonard fan you will say anything to deny it
the way i look at it, Norris found himself in the exact same postion leonard was when he challenged hagler. Leonard unbeaten in 11 yrs and a five division champion. How does that translate to him being damaged goods? Meldrick only 25 yrs with 1 controversial loss and Terry whipped both becuz he is simply too fast and too good.
Results dont lie. SRL fans can be counted on to lie
Im not a Suger Ray fan! Im not off my nut either! Meldrick Taylor went downhill from the moment he lost to Chavez, does'nt matter how old he was. He was damaged goods and was a lightwelterweight that should have never moved up. You're mentally touched!! Leonard was clearly past it too! If you read what I said, I never claimed Leonard was damaged goods. You claimed that yourself! Norris was a mug. He had fast hands, yes but was nothing. Lets see where he is in the history books.
Can you prove it? I dont think you can. Maybe you just heard someone saying it.
I dont see no other losses other than Chavez. In fact I think the ref stole that fight from Meldrick!
Let's face it, I have all the facts on my side becuz all the wins belong to my fighters.
You only WISH Meldrick had whipped Norris. You only WISH Ray Leonard had whipped Norris. Hell, you'd probably settle for a close fight if he couldnt win and I have never claimed Leonard as damaged goods
To prove a point, go and make as many posts as you can on Norris fights and Leonard fights. See what replies you get back. You know fuck all,LOL. You're off your nut. I wanted Norris to beat Taylor and I wanted him to beat Leonard too. I also wanted him to fight a decent fighter, which he never did.
sir-gay I notice you dont reply no more after I spelled out the facts to you surrounding the circumstances before the fight started
Leonard was the big fave but couldnt deliver the goods. that's why I have no faith in leonard. I suspected this was true when he put the Hagler fite on hold 5 years. No true man wouldve stooped to that level. so he got his cheap win but thankfully, Norris came in to show what happens in a leonard match when you still got some fight in you
Hagler spent his entire career trying to lure smaller men into the ring to fight him and when the last of the small men got into the ring he got owned in a fight that will forever haunt his legacy.
If he had gotten beat by Hearns then it still would have been an embarrassment but atleast Hearns was active and close to his prime,Leonard was a good five years past his prime with only one fight in five years.
the Leonard of 87 would never have beaten the monzons and hopkins but he beat hagler
I score the bout 115-113 to hagler. Leonard made a very smart fight by running 2:50 minutes of every round an then trying to steal the round in the last 10 seconds. Two great fighter.
Leonard indeed did "steal the rounds" (dumb judges). He was too much of a coward to fight complete rounds. And I don't mean stand toe to toe, like a street fight, just give your all, instead of running, clinching, and making faces (damn sissy).He sure got what he deserved from Norris and Camacho.
And Norris got what he deserved from Jackson, and multiple journeymen..stop making up false names piglatinfagget, get laid or sometjing, get a life, just do something ELSE than hating SRL
My oh my, such insults. Did I make a false description of what RL (NOT Sugar, there was only one sugar) did in this, and other fights? Stepping back, dropping his arms, and making faces is good boxing technique?
The 12th round goes to Hagler on my card. My final scoring ended 115-114 in favor of Leonard. Watching this fight all the way through, theres no doubt Hagler inflicted a ton more damage than Leonard, but he could have done much more, he wasnt himself that night. Do I think SRL did enough to take the title? No. Absolutely not, and I don't really think that is debatable. When you go to the judges cards though, all you can do is go by the scoring, and Leonard won this fight on points just barely.
1EPowerUp 5 months ago
This fight was decided when Hagler gave away the first 2 or 3 rounds by fighting 'righty' and not taking Leonard seriously. That was idiotic and a colossal mistake.
dspreis 6 months ago
Hagler started slow and may have dropped the first 3 rounds. But Leonard ran the whole time. Leonard also got real tired and Hagler won the last 4 rounds easily.
You can't run around the ring against the champ and win. Sorry.
xpat73 7 months ago
This was a win for Hagler or a draw at worst. The champion has to get the benefit of the doubt in close matches and I did not think that Leonard did enough. Unfortunately the judges were swayed by Leonard's showboating and pitter patter punches which had ZERO power. Hagler was robbed.
xpat73 7 months ago in playlist MIXN IT UP
i am sure that duran felt he beat hagler and so did his fans.
chaka943 7 months ago
I had Hagler winning this fight,I thought he needed to win the last round to avoid a draw and he did.Its a shame that the 12th Hagler lost it in most scorecard cause of that flurry Leonard threw when Hagler had him in the corner and because of the showboating!!!
prdachamp79 7 months ago
Shame!...Hagler won the fight...a draw at most...
CharlyOutsider 8 months ago
Hagler won the fight; Leonard won "Dancing with the Stars."
andrewleibs 9 months ago
don't be fooled lenard more, and haglarfelt pain too. haglar should have pushed for a 15 rd fight he would have beaten lenard.
jaggarjaggarjaggar 9 months ago
leonard runs like a rabbit.
if hagler were in his prime, he can beat leonard with one hand.
thiefzhai 9 months ago
@thiefzhai but neither of them were in their prime, so that's not a very sensible comment to make now is it?
GBdoubleD 8 months ago
good fight
TheSwearingBear 9 months ago
It was nothing but a popularity contest.
jackarrowood 1 year ago
THE TACHSMAN TROLL IS JUST BLATHERING SCUM WHO KNOWS NOTHING ABOUT FIGHTING OR ANYTHING ELSE FOR THAT MATTER....CERTAINLY NOT CARS...
whothehellgivesadamn 1 year ago
watch out FOR THE SALAD TOSSER TROLL TACHSMAN, HE DRIVES A DATSUN AND CLAIMS ITS A SUPER CAR AND HE'S INTO SENDING GUYS PERV EMAILS
whothehellgivesadamn 1 year ago
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SAY GUYS WATCH OUT FOR THE TACHSMAN TROLL, HE'S A SALAD TOSSER, WHO THINKS HIS DATSUN IS A SUPER CAR....THE TROLL IS A LOOSER..
whothehellgivesadamn 1 year ago
SAY GUYS....WATCH OUT FOR THE TACHSMAN TROLL.......HE'S A SALAD TOSSER AND THINKS HIS DATSUN IS A SUPER CAR....THE TROLL IS A REAL LOOOOSER.
whothehellgivesadamn 1 year ago
Haggler looked like a fool dancing after the fight. Sugar Ray!!!!!
dodgerguy1981 1 year ago
What you mooks have to understand is Sugar fought the fight he needed to fight! Hagler let Leonard stay in the fight by not punching like he was suppose to do! Check out Hagler vs Mugabi, vs Simpson, vs Hearns! Check out how Hagler kept the pressure on by constantly punching, he didn't do that against Ray, he followed Ray but didn't keep the pressure on and he let Ray hit him and move
vincespell 1 year ago
@vincespell The difference between Mugabi/Hearns and Sugar was that Sugar CONSTANTLY kept moving. He didn't sit here and fight with him like the other two did. Haglar didn't let hold back any punches, but he was trying to be careful not to punch himself out but ended up doing that anyway. The other two fights were brawls where as this fight was more him trying to keep up with Sugar. Sugar kept running around him and made him tire himself out and hit him with flurries.
Lawless66007 1 year ago
@vincespell Saying Hagler "let Ray hit him and move" is negative. Either way, negative for Hagler is a positive for Leonard who did fight the way he needed to, as he always did with one exception. I think as time passes we forget how ferocious Hagler was. Before Leonard, only the Hall of Fame boxer, Roberto Duran even went the distance with the champion Hagler!
johnlocke48060 1 year ago
leonard won by to rounds ok alot of rounds were hard to call but overhall leonard won the first time i saw fight has a boy ithought hagler won now im older ive changed my mind i think leonard won
fandingo69 1 year ago
@fandingo69 The best way to score who wins a round in boxing,is to ask yourself which one of them you would rather be in that round.I scored this fight 9 to 3 and that was being generous to Hagler.Ray outclassed him totally
onlyjoetee 1 year ago
Leonard won!!!! He hit more! so what it he tied the dude up. fighting isnt far! This is the best fight of all and Sugar Won!!!!!
droker3121 1 year ago 3
@droker3121
I agree this is the best fight of all. I picked this for a variety of reasons. It is the greatest comeback in all of sports history. Unlike the Brawl in Montreal of Thrilla in Manilla, it was not a brutal fight but one that shows the sweet science the best. The split decision means it can be reasonably debated. I scored it 7 rounds to 5, 115-113 for Leonard. Two rounds determined the fight. The 3rd and the 10th could have been scored even, which would make the fight a draw.
johnlocke48060 1 year ago
@johnlocke48060 i had it that who ever scored the 5th and 11th rounds would be decided the winner. all of them close. i scored it a draw at 114 114, but honestly it could have gone 115 113 either way.
c1t1zensn1ps 1 year ago
@c1t1zensn1ps i ment both 11th and 5th were close, and 116 to 112 either way.
c1t1zensn1ps 1 year ago
Leonard won this fight in the prefight negotiation. A smaller ring and thumbless gloves were all in favor of Leonard. Hagler should have won this fight, but just agreed to everything instead of thinking.
Smallz1980 1 year ago 2
Just watched the whole fight..and though I prefer a brawler over a boxer...I still had it 116-112 for Leonard..He controlled the fight and made Hagler look old and amateurish...All Hagler had to do to stop Leonards showboating was stick his glove into Leonards ribs everytime he did it..and the opportunity was there..EPIC FAIL for Hagler....Wish there was a rematch to this one..I think Hagler would have got him in the second one with just a little studying..
jliles27 1 year ago 2
YEA I SAW THE FIGHT LIVE ON A CLOSED CIRCUIT THEATER SCREEN AND IT WAS CLOSE, BUT LENORD HAD ONE THING WHICH WAS MORE CONTROL OVER THE FIGHT, EVEN THOUGH HE WAS OFTEN DEFENSIVE AND BACKING AWAY, HE KEPT THAT IN CONTROL TO THEN LAUNCH HIS ATTACKS, SO YEA YOU CAN FEEL SORRY FOR HAGLER AND IT WAS CLOSE AND YEA THE SENTIMENT WAS UNFAIRLY MORE TOWARDS LEONARD BECAUSE HE WAS THE PRETTIER FIGHTER, BUT ALL THAT SAID, HE HAD ENOUGH OF A CONTROL EDGE ON THAT FIGHT TO BARELY BUT SUBSTANTIALLY WIN.
whothehellgivesadamn 1 year ago
@whothehellgivesadamn The best way to decide who wins a round in boxing,is to simply ask yourself which of the 2 would you rather have been in that round.This was not a close fight at all.Leonard won by far!!
onlyjoetee 1 year ago
@onlyjoetee I saw the fight live on a big screen with an audience of five hundred people or whatever. The crowd was pulling for leonard, as I was....and yea you could also say hagler won.....it was a close fight, I'd give it to leonard but it was extremely close and could be called either way. I remember hagler said that after the fight in the ring, leonard hugged hagler and said "you beat me" it was that close....did leonard say that, who knows....i felt sorry for hagler afterwards though...
whothehellgivesadamn 1 year ago
@whothehellgivesadamn i was in high school at the time,i also remember watching it live,Hagler didnt win shit,if Ray told him that he was bullshitting him.I gave Hagler the 5th and 2 of the middle rounds when Leonard was restingthe rest was all Sugar Ray..Its like i said,use this principle,every round,simply ask yourself,which one of these 2 would i rather have been in that round,and you will end up with at least 9 rounds for leonard easy.This was not a close fight at all!!!
onlyjoetee 1 year ago
@onlyjoetee If you read my comments, I already said I'd give it to leonard. What you're not getting was that Leonard had a certain showmanship that over ruled the fight. He was the prettier fighter, who sold more tickets, hagler was the schlub. What I'm saying and you're not getting was that, yea leonard won by a hair, but when you add his pretty showmanship, that margin increases. I already told you that I was pulling for lenoard and bet on lenard at the time, so i was happy when he won.
whothehellgivesadamn 1 year ago
@whothehellgivesadamn No Sir,Leonard did not win by a hair,nor by selling tickets or showmanship.He was the better fighter all night by a mile,he won the first 4 so easily even he himself was surprised.The only time Marvin Hagler was in this fight was when Ray was resting,catching his,this wasnt close at all,thats my point.I gave Hagler 3 rounds and that was being generous to him.Anytime you watch a fight,use that principle per round.which would i rather have been,it really clears things up
onlyjoetee 1 year ago
@onlyjoetee When I saw it, i was already a full blown highly educated fighter, and it looked to me at the time that in reality although leonard was the prettier dancer, he really hadn't established much control over hagler, who looked like a schlub. What I'm saying is that lenard had an edge but at any time, say in the next round either one of them could have taken the other out. Hagler still had a lot left in him as he was pounding leonard, so it was closer on that basis. Leonard won on points.
whothehellgivesadamn 1 year ago
@whothehellgivesadamn i get what you're saying,my point is,it wasnt by a hair,one judge had it 10 to 2,i had it 9 to 3.Hagler wasnt gonna take anything out except the trash when he got home LOL.If you watch it again,and you use my principle,(which would i rather have been in each round)Hagler would be lucky to get 3.hahahaha He was well beat,no doubt!!LOL
onlyjoetee 1 year ago
@onlyjoetee WHAT A DUMBO....YOU'RE STILL NOT GETTING IT....I BET ON LEONARD, I CHEERED WHEN HE WON....I JUST FELT SORRY FOR HAGLER, AND LEONARD WAS JUST LUCKY, IT MAY HAVE LOOKED LIKE HE WON BY A LOT TO YOU BECAUSE YOU FELL FOR THE HYPE....I SAW THE FIGHT ON A BIGGER SCREEN THEN YOU WITH A LOT MORE KNOWLEDGE OF FIGHTING THAN YOU....YEA LEONARD LOOKED GOOD, I FELT GOOD ABOUT IT, MANY IN THE CROWD I WAS IN WERE CHEERING FOR HAGLER, IN RETROSPECT LENOARD WON BY A HAIR AND GOOD LOOKS, THAT'S ALL.
whothehellgivesadamn 1 year ago
@whothehellgivesadamn You still have NO idea about the principle of scoring boxing,and im a dumbo!You actually watched THIS fight and thought Leonard was Lucky!and im a dumbo!you consider yourself to have knowledge of fighting?where did you get this so called knowledge from?and in a dumbo!LOLWhat the fuck difference does it make who some drunken crowd cheered!You seriously watched this entire fight from round 1 to 12 and thought the winner won by a hair,looks& hype?AND IM THE DUMBO!hahahahaha
onlyjoetee 1 year ago
@whothehellgivesadamn Im trying to educate you on the principles of scoring boxing,and why the winning margin in this fight was certainly not a hair.Simple,watch round 1,at the end,pause,then think,in those 3 mins,which of those 2 men would i rather have been,AND WHY.Score that person 10 and the other 9,then do that again for round 2,3,4 etc to the end.Total it,and see if the difference is a hair!.EVen If you saw 2 guys fighting on the street,same,which would i rather be now AND WHY!simple
onlyjoetee 1 year ago
@onlyjoetee THAT'S RIGHT, NOW YOU'VE GOT IT YOU'RE A DUMBO
whothehellgivesadamn 1 year ago
@whothehellgivesadamn Man, If you cant even decipher sarcasm and irony,how the hell you gonna make out who won a round in a boxing match?hahahahaha clearly you've taken too many punches hahahahahah
onlyjoetee 1 year ago
@onlyjoetee YOU'RE A DUMBO
whothehellgivesadamn 1 year ago
@whothehellgivesadamn You're a dumbo,duh,Leonard was lucky to win because he was goodlooking?hahahahaha Man you're too fucking stupid to even argue with,goodbye hahahahaha
onlyjoetee 1 year ago
@onlyjoetee WHAT A DUMBO
whothehellgivesadamn 1 year ago
@whothehellgivesadamn is a perverted schizophrenic web troll. I made him extremely angry by exposing his lies in a thread. He now attacks me. Now I am telling you what he tries to hide. Visit his YouTube site and see for yourself. He is a pathological liar. Google his web name and view his sickness. He lives in the third world Sri Lanka, but pretends he lives in the USA. His current Flickr album of Sri Lanka and his family is very weird. His YouTube site is also very disturbing.
Tachsman 1 year ago
@Whothehellgivesadamn is a PERVERT and a QUEER, given he takes singing lessons and yoga and has failed political ideas. He says he is from the USA, but his Flickr site puts him in Sri Lanka. See his photo album, he IS definitely from Sri Lanka. Click on his name and see his YouTube site and his pervertion. He is a LIAR, a FAKE and a WEB TROLL. Click on his name above and you will see all of his PERVERTED posts! No doubt he is an orphan bastard who thinks the CAP KEY gives him power, the pervert.
Tachsman 1 year ago
@whothehellgivesadamn is a PERVERT and a QUEER, given he takes singing lessons and yoga and has failed political ideas. He says he is from the USA, but his Flickr site puts him in Sri Lanka. See his photo album, he IS definitely from Sri Lanka. Click on his name and see his YouTube site and his pervertion. He is a LIAR, a FAKE and a WEB TROLL. Click on his name above and you will see all of his PERVERTED posts! No doubt he is an orphan bastard who thinks the CAP KEY gives him power, the pervert.
Tachsman 1 year ago
@whothehellgivesadamn Did you know this guy is also an expert in all of the following: world class driver, boxer, superb athelete, musician, yoga expert, singer as he states in other threads! Just Google his name for a real treat to see how a sick mind works. This guy if so full of BS and the worst kind of web troll.
Tachsman 1 year ago
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@whothehellgivesadamn Please explain how you are an expert in all of the following: world class driver, boxer, superb athelete, musician, yoga expert, singer as you state in other threads! Just Google this guys name for a real treat to see how a sick mind works. You are so full of BS and the worst kind of web troll.
Tachsman 1 year ago
what a lron men
BJPen27 1 year ago
leonard won get over it!!!
kasim8t3 1 year ago 2
Leonard NEVER agreed a rematch with Hagler, because he knows Hagler would kick his @zz. For me, you can never take the crown by jabbing, running and hugging.
Daputaka 1 year ago
THose of you who say that SRL didn't won this fight, have no idea of what boxing is. To win a fight, you need to have a knock out. You need to have a plan in the ringg, and that's exacty what Leonard had. At elast that night, SRL was the better man. He won 7-5, or 8-4.
surfboyabry007 1 year ago
1:53 = Hagler Lost. Sugar Ray shitted all over him, Playing ping pong with a giant milk dud.
InternationalBoy 1 year ago
Leonard ran way too much to win this fight. Almost as bad as when Dela Hoya ran from Trininad. Personally I had it 116-112 for Hagler! The rounds that Leonard actually won, he threw a lot of punches in those rounds, pitty pat punches, but a lot of punches. But overall Hagler won a majority of the rounds in this fight. Leonard won because of his image of a cocky and flamboyant personality, he didn't win because of what he did in this fight. But in reality, Hagler won this fight!
TheFRESHAgenda 1 year ago
@TheFRESHAgenda you obviously watched the fight with you heart and not your eyes. This fight was a no-brainer. Smart fighters win fights. Period.
Banghouse 1 year ago
@Banghouse No, I watched the fight with my eyes and a boxing enthusiast mind-frame. Hagler beat the guy up. If they were running the 40 meter dash, then yes Leonard would have won. But since this was a boxing match, Hagler won this hands down.
TheFRESHAgenda 1 year ago
Marvin Hagler had 12 rounds to knock this guy out and couldnt do it...thats saying something in itself. Because of that he got outboxed for the majority of the match. He lost on points to a superior "BOXER" point, blank, period! Not to mention Sugar Ray Leonard won over the crowd with his amazing display of skill, guts, and HEART.
akaTheWave 1 year ago
@akaTheWave Interesting how opinions are so polarized watching the same fight. Seems obvious that leonard came in with a strategy to win with evasiveness,precision strikes and high volume. Hagler's big weapon was his power. Leonard took that away. It was masterful. Hagler wins a toe to toe brawl,but he was not clever enough,and his handlers were not astute enough to make an adjustment to Leonard. Leonard,not unlike Ali,combined intelligence and psychological warfare with his boxing skill.
drfittt 1 year ago
This fight was close, but I still think the decision went the wrong way. As the old saying goes, you're not given the title you have to take it. Ray was a great fighter, but he carefully did the absolute bare minimum to win, and definitely didn't take the fight to Hagler, or take his title away. It's as if the judges, and even commentator Gil Clancy, thought the title was Leonard's to begin with and Hagler was an outsider who had to earn it in this fight. Thus to me, a bad decision.
zenmachinefilms 1 year ago
3/4 of the punches Leonard threw did not land. Hagler landed harder punches and hurt Leonard. Leonard never once hurt hagler. Leonard homers think every punch he throws lands. Ask them who felt worse the next day. Hagler wore his ass out.
spyder2535 1 year ago 14
@spyder2535 are you blind? leonard landed more of his punches then hagler, hagler missed some punches with leonard openly presenting his chin, the stats were was follows, Leonard threw 629 punches and landed 306, while Hagler threw 792 and landed 291 search it up if you think im lying.
FPSpreston 1 year ago 18
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JTVmoses526 11 months ago
@JTVmoses526, that's largely irrelevant; most of Willie Pep's, Nicolino Locche's or Tommy Loughran's opponents walked through their punches without too much trouble, too. Doesn't mean they weren't still getting their ears boxed off by them. Leonard 116-112 for me. Everyone moans that Leonard "ran" all night, but when Hagler caught up he was countered (something people seem unable to grasp) and made to look clumsy. Hagler didn't really hurt Leonard, either, perhaps round 9 aside. No robbery here.
iljn1988 8 months ago
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JTVmoses526 8 months ago
@JTVmoses526, I was watching a BOXING match, as you asked. Not a 'who can hurt who most' match. Leonard's hospital check over is pretty routine and would have been a result of accumulated damage - there was not a single time where he looked in serious trouble. Sorry, just don't see how anyone can have Hagler winning. He huffed and puffed all night while hitting thin air WAY too often. There's a difference between aggression and effective aggression. He didn't get going until the mid rounds.
iljn1988 8 months ago
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JTVmoses526 8 months ago
@JTVmoses526 Hard fight to score. It should probably have been scored a draw. I just don't think Ray really "won" the fight. I don't feel that Marvin "lost", but I also don't feel like Marvin dominated Ray or anything. But I know the reason there wasn't a rematch is because Marvin didn't want 1. He knew nothing would change & that if anything, because of age he'd be even slower the 2nd time around. All in all, both fighters did about as well as they could. They deserved a draw.
gjc82071 8 months ago
@gjc82071 I agree in the fact that no man dominated and both men boxed very well. I could definitely see where people could score a draw as well. :)
JTVmoses526 8 months ago
@FPSpreston Here's a better question. Would you rather be hit 306 times by Leonard, or 291 times by Hagler? Let's think a little about who hit harder and who was running away and throwing pitty-pat punches for 12 rounds.
halleck3 7 months ago
This fight was fixed. Why was the second judges score so far off the other two. Hagler won this fight.
spyder2535 1 year ago
leonard is a flash in the ring he avoids easily haglers fists so thats why he won the fight.he fought defensively .... box has rules that you must accomplish and what i really think is that in a street fight hagler would win the fight cause there is no much escaping and there is no referi to save them you can avoid a lot but the fist will always get you and knock you for me hagler is stronger than leonard in a real fight thats the true way to determine who really is the strongest
kingofbuddha 1 year ago
116-112 Leonard. Still can't believe that anyone thinks that Hagler won this fight. Did Leonard fight defensively? Yes. Did Leonard use his cannyness rather than his underrated punching power? Yes. Does any of this add points to Hagler's score? NO! And for those saying that Leonard was a coward who was scared to fight, take a look at his fights with Benitez, Duran, Hearns and LaLonde. He was a rock-hard fighting man.
iljn1988 1 year ago
@iljn1988 Leonard Homers! LOL...Hagler beat his ass!
spyder2535 1 year ago
118-110??? It wasn't that clear cut, he might have sneaked it but even thats debatable. I think personally it was a draw, Hagler did most of the work, Leonard threw good combos. I couldn't choose betwen them
skaylegend3 1 year ago
NOthing against Hagler, He was a great fighter!! But Leonard was better. There is nothing wrong with twisting and turning to get away from punches. Mayweather does it all the time.
Leonard had more talent and ability. What's disappointing is that Hagler couldn't be a man and give it to Leonard. Hagler to prove his point left boxing and moved to France to make movies. He had 2 to 3 more years of boxing left in him.
planesx12 1 year ago
@planesx12 Hagler beat the hell out of leonard. Period! That fight was rigged. Leonard held and hit with low blows all night and never got a point taken. If i was the ref I would have told leonard "the next time you hold behind the neck, hit low or punch after the bell, I will take a round, not a point". Leonard got his ass whooped baddd!!!
spyder2535 1 year ago
Leonard is a complete coward to flee to avoid and to flee the whole combat, to do the clown and few mas, a verguenza that they were giving to him(her) winner, hagler sei a myth, in a combat of equal it destroys equal marvin
feli2009 1 year ago
Leonard is a complete coward to flee to avoid and to flee the whole combat, to do the clown and few mas, a verguenza that they were giving to him(her) winner, hagler sei a myth, in a combat of equal it destroys equal marvin
feli2009 1 year ago
I am not sure why people argue much about this fight. I found it quite easy to score. Hagler didn't even do anything until round 5. Leonard took 1-4, 6, 10-12 Hagler took 5,7, and 9. Round 8 was hard to score and very close. Easy way, SRL on points easy....
cykodave5 1 year ago
@cykodave5 Totally agree with you. Honestly, I'm still wondering why people still argue that SRL didn't win. SRL clearly won rounds 1,2,3,4,11..rounds 8 and 12 he also he also won them, but a bit closer. That's 115-113 SRL winning. And I gave HAgler round 6, thought it could have gone either way.
surfboyabry007 1 year ago
yer i agree i had it 116 2 112 SRL easy
hagler rounds 7 8 10 11
SRL rounds 1 2 3 4 5 6 9 12
500bhpcossie 1 year ago
I think leonard won- his style was shining here. . .
dinosaurjr 1 year ago
That emotion to see these two impressive boxers, thank you for so beautiful spectacle.
sbigblue 2 years ago
great fight right decision hagler needed to hurt him
gerthie 2 years ago
4:55 Hagler landed 291. Leonard 360. The man didn't even see Hagler landing that many.
kingq01 2 years ago
i had round 1 even because there was no offense ray circled to much 2-4 for leonard 5-8 hagler 9 leonard 10 hagler 11 leonard 12 hagler. In alot of rounds hagler blocked leonards flurries and landed inside shots to the body.
66Fightfan 2 years ago
I'm not saying Leonard isn't great i'm a huge fan of both guys, but Hagler was robbed... Period!!!! Landed the cleaner harder punches, Leonard just threw flurries, clinched and ran!!! Does Angelo Dundee really annoy anyone??? This guy was just a glorified cheerleader!!!
MrPound4Pound1 2 years ago
dundee tried to buy ray some time with the gloves at the begining of rd 8, he tried that trick a few times when his fighters were tired..
28rampage 1 year ago
man you need your eyes testing there no way haglar won this fight he was slow diddnt seem to have a game plan just kept trying to walk him down srl laned by far the better punches won pro judge scored it 110 118 i cant belive eny1 thinks haglar won it tommy hearns was robbed in the rematch against lenoed i had that fight 115 2 111 tommy hearns
500bhpcossie 1 year ago
@MrPound4Pound1 . . . You're a huge fan of both fighters? . . . Leonard was just a glorified cheerleader? Which is it?
shiftwork 1 year ago
@shiftwork How about you read the comment properly, I was taling about Angelo Dundee my friend!
MrPound4Pound1 1 year ago
@MrPound4Pound1 . . . Yep, I misread. Don't agree with you about Angelo Dundee though, but I misread your comment. My apologies.
shiftwork 1 year ago
I hate to say it, and I really do(cuz I'm not a Leonard fan), but Hagler lost this fight. He was 'supposed to at least knock Leonard down. 1.Leonard was NEVER a true Middle.2.Hadn't fought in 3yrs.3.Torn Retina. Hagler is one of the best Middles of all time, why he came out orthodox against Ray... Hagler looks old here, Leonard knew this going in(see Hagler vs.Mugabi).If they had fought 3yrs earlier, Hagler would have won.
lemonite1 2 years ago
Some pple don't know what is Boxing and Sreet fights. Boxing is an art not just heavy puches, Sugar Ray is an artist, Like Muhammad Ali the King
deybeydirou 2 years ago
Haha, you just don't get it, that's why there are like 2-3 people who still watch boxing...too many runners. And Sugar isn't an artist, he's a biotch, he got hit with so many more actual punches, while slapping Hagler's arms and gloves quickly...he has one actual effective flurry getting out of the corner in rd 12, which is why I gave him that round. But for sure he should have lost points for holding and maybe even that low bolo in rd 4.
MastaSmack 2 years ago
First 4 to leonard, 5-11 Hagler with a point taken away from leonard in both rounds 9 and 10 for holding and the 12th going back to leonard. Hagler by landside....
MastaSmack 2 years ago
very, very close fight. I thought Sugar won by a very slight margin
QuietSon82 2 years ago
Wow 118, that's being screwed
xsCrApPybXx 2 years ago
Leonard....a coward, always a running coward. I can almost read puerto rico all over this miserable guy. Points should be taken from running cowards like this; that would be the way to compensate for the bad and frustrating kind of show these types give to the audience-fans. Boxing should force fighters to fight, not to evade fighting. Rewarding some one for running all over the ring should stop; avoiding being hit is one thing: evading fighting is another.
bvb7589 2 years ago
@bvb7589 Running from a fight is not the same as losing a fight.
Sun Tzu, The art of war
BoringYPG 2 years ago
If boxing was about nothing but brute strength and sheer punching power then the ring would be about 4 square feet big.
jimmiratsfield 2 years ago
PART 1 this is from an unbiased fan of both fighter and boxing. i have only watched the full fight for the first time because i was just 5 yr old when the fight happened.. I have always heard of the debate (eg. that hagler won the fight. that hagler threw solid punches, while leonard the flashy ones), so i decided to watch the fight closely.
I scored it round for round and I would say it was very close indeed. It could have gone either way.......
hapimar 2 years ago
love rays character
ammaco 2 years ago
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Very deceptive
Leonard won the theatrics.
Leonard won the crowd.
Hagler won the fight.
JohnPaul7771 2 years ago
Hagler won the fight, albeit not his most shining performance
Leonard won because he was the matinee idol and more marketable. Flash is the American way.
easyscore 2 years ago
Sugar ran like a chicken..gotta give the fight to Marvelous. I was always bored by Leonard not manning up to power punchers.( Like myf ather always said...he was a freaking clown in the ring.)
duveimperial 2 years ago
classic fight that what u expect from sugar ray 2 selection of the top men in the middleweight that u very much hagler leonard and gastation23 will subscribe
deekohaslanded 2 years ago
Ray leonard's movement...........Class
Indul1 2 years ago
Marvellous Marvin Hagler deserves his name but not for this fight. He looked old and slow.
Hagler was the natural middleweight and the active fighter. Leonard never fought at middleweight before and had 1 fight in 5 years.
So why didnt Hagler fight him the way he fought Hearns? Maybe Leonard's mind games worked on him or maybe like Duran before Hagler paid him too much respect. Hagler lost by losing the early rounds & having to play catch up.
Neither man was at their best
SirHappyThe1st 2 years ago
hagler does deserve some of the blame. Since ray's waiting paid off, Hagler was too shot by this time and didnt get leonard's respect early in the fight the way Norris did. ray disrespected hagler early on becuz Hagler's power was non existant. He wasnt able to do that with Norris becuz Terry hurt him early in round 1, put him down in round 2, and hurt him badly round 3. Terry took complete control from that point on. By putting Ray in his place early in a fight, that's how you beat him
Piglatinsuperstar 2 years ago
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feli2009 2 years ago
Ray leonard is only a coward fearfully and agitator, alone despicable COWARD can run, this is a boxing not athletics, leonard deberia to be a champion of 100 smooth meters.
HAGLER always sera the big champion mas of the whole history of the medium ones
feli2009 2 years ago
I agree with you 007rocksalotmann, I think Hagler can do much better, like the way he fought Hearns...and I think Leonard won this one...115-113.
waseley 2 years ago
Hagler lost the fight for 2 reasons: Threw away the 2 first rounds fighting orthodox. And settled on 12 rounds instead of 15. He wasn't smart enough, in my opinion, and got suckered on both these issues.
gavaniacono 2 years ago
I feel really bad for Hagler. I believe Leonard won (6-5-1, or 115-114), but he had such a hard time, hile SRL got 40,000 dollars for his pro debut...
I am a huge fan of both, but would have liked Hagler to fight Leonard like he did Hearns, he would KO Leonard in round 5 or 6. But he has only himself to blame for losing to Sugar Ray.
007rocksalotmann 2 years ago
For me, Leonard fought a very negative fight. If he'd punched more and held less I would let it pass. There's no way he was ever going to hurt Hagler. A points win based on superior boxing is a respectable play but Leonard did too much holding and running and considering the shit Hagler went through in his career compared to Leonard's easy ride, there's no justice in him losing to Leonard that way.
finndudaniec 2 years ago 10
@finndudaniec
Bullshit Leonard threw a lot of punches in this fight. In many rounds he throws more and lands more than Hagler. Look at rd 11 and count how many punches Leonard throws and lands.
Gil Clancy trained hall of fame champions and did hundreds of fightas at ringside and he said it was a miraculous performance. I agree.
shire2005 1 year ago
@finndudaniec that's terrible analysis on so many levels. should leonard give hagler the fight because hagler had a tougher life? come on. leonard put on a skillful display. yes, he employed some slightly dirty tactics but boxing is not a tickling contest. hagler lost this because he failed to learn what was working. his right lead/jab was effective but he only used it 3 or 4 rounds. he was missing an open target, even when leonard wasn't moving. who's fault is that? hagler froze, and lost.
charlesgoodwin 1 year ago
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SirHappyThe1st 2 years ago
Too bad you can never prove it
I only go by what I see and what I saw was that TNT Norris beat the more experienced-heavy favorite-five time Champion-unbeaten in 11 years Sugar Ray Leonard in a Clay Liston type upset
He shook up the world! He shook up Ray Leonard! he shook up the press! He shook up KO and Ring Magazines!
Piglatinsuperstar 2 years ago
after all, SRL fans arent really fans of the sport to begin with. what do they know? they got their start late and just go around masquerading like they know their shit but its easy to spot them with all the ignorant things they say
Piglatinsuperstar 2 years ago
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SirHappyThe1st 2 years ago
The only way I could score that fight 118-110 is if it was in Haggler's favor, there was no way that I felt that Leonard won that fight in such a close deicison. I personally had 2 rounds, and a draw for Haggler, the last round I gave to Haggler for Leonard running like a girl, he's not fighting on the outside. and those flurries were most block and soft punches where Haggler's was diligent 1 hard shot at a time when his punches weren't gassed, excessive holding from Leonard was another factor
AdamGomez87 2 years ago
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SirHappyThe1st 2 years ago
118-110..that was total bullshit!! I love both these Hall Of Famer's...but Hagler did lose this fight..he should of attacked like he did Hearns!!, also if Ray fights him 3 years before..85' or 84..Hagler would have got him by 6 rounds! Marvin I love you more..but you lost this one my brother & I lost $100 on your ass!
depaolajr 2 years ago
you may be right. Hagler fought like a timid 80 year old
its too bad it wasnt a young Terry Norris in there with Sugar Ray. He would have ripped leonard apart
I was hoping for a big Leonard-Nunn fight at the time but it was too much to hope for, like asking for Hagler Leoanrd in 82.
Instead he gives us uno mas and RL-Lalonde which is okay as a fight but Lalonde wasnt a marquee fighter
Piglatinsuperstar 2 years ago
leonard won clearly. 116-112 to him
javier0930 2 years ago
118-110 are u serious...im a huge Leonard fan and that was a bs score.
oakbayboy510 2 years ago
Terry Norris was nothing compared to a prime Leonard, just as Trevor Burbick was a nobody compared to a prime Ali.
sugarrayspeed 2 years ago
I'm a big Leonard fan and the judges decision speaks for itself. Being aggressive is not grounds for winning a fight. Leonard made Hagler miss by miles throughout the fight, whilst aggressively unloading cpmbinations on Hagler's head.
MrPurpleone23 2 years ago
is sugar ray doing a moonwalk?
bubafeat 2 years ago
Hagler won albeit not his best performance. America likes flash and dancing and Leonard was clearly the one on his heals in this fight. In order to beat the man you have to beat the man. Leonard did NOT beat the man.
ballisticbliss 2 years ago
Very valid comment ballisticbliss, he fought a cowards fight really. But he was clever and he knew if he fought like this against a fading Hagler, he'd win!
OscarDanDan76 2 years ago
Leonard beat Hagler but it was close. I did'nt like Leonard for beating Hagler but it was a great achievement. I don't think Leonard would have beaten an in prime Halgler, he would have cut the ring off better. He was a master at doing that in his day.
OscarDanDan76 2 years ago
Norris beat bums or damaged fighters and Leonard would have played with him in his prime. Simple as that. I loved the Julian Jacksons KO of Norris.
OscarDanDan76 2 years ago
Maybe in your dreams but Im talking real life. I never saw Ray play with any opponent including Howard or Kalule or Geraldo. How come?
Norris would kick ass on Ray's best day becuz Ray could not handle speed like this gr8. His left hook too quick to see coming, his uppercut there is no defense. it was Norris' uppercut that send Leonard into a nosedive rounds 3 on. Terry ruined him physically and was a damaged fighter mentally who could not rebound. Norris took his heart away & ate him alive
Piglatinsuperstar 2 years ago
Leonard was an old man. He would have played with Norris. Simple as that!
OscarDanDan76 2 years ago
2 bad Ray couldnt to the same as Jackson. He had none of Jackson's attributes as a fighter that brought him success against Norris. He lacked the powerful build Jackson had and also his tenactiy and will to win. Jackson proved himself in that fight and in the Graham fight with a burning will to win. And he could pull it out when sorely pressed. Ray couldnt. Rl wasnt a fighter who excelled at pressuring another man. It was difficult for him and let's face it, he was just a runner
Piglatinsuperstar 2 years ago
I dont understand this comment? You're English is'nt that good. What are you trying to say?
OscarDanDan76 2 years ago
you say Sugar ray going to play with Norris. That is what I dont understand!
Ray Leonard was heavily favored to beat Norris andTerry beat him outright-no controversy.
Ray could never beat Norris if they fought ten times if they fought 11 times. He had his hands full with Kevin Howard and Kevin retired him. a 20-4 welterweight much smaller that dropped RL. Norris would annihilate Leonard no matter where no matter when. Ray could NOT handle speed-that is a fact!
Piglatinsuperstar 2 years ago
LOL!!
You have no clue about boxing. LOL! Norris beat fighters that were past it or damaged goods, Taylor, Leonard, Curry! He will be remembered for nothing whereas Leonard is a popular 5 weight world champion that will go down in history. And in some peoples opinion, one of the greatest of all time. Enough said!
OscarDanDan76 2 years ago
that depends how you look at it. if you are a leonard fan you will say anything to deny it
the way i look at it, Norris found himself in the exact same postion leonard was when he challenged hagler. Leonard unbeaten in 11 yrs and a five division champion. How does that translate to him being damaged goods? Meldrick only 25 yrs with 1 controversial loss and Terry whipped both becuz he is simply too fast and too good.
Results dont lie. SRL fans can be counted on to lie
Piglatinsuperstar 2 years ago
Im not a Suger Ray fan! Im not off my nut either! Meldrick Taylor went downhill from the moment he lost to Chavez, does'nt matter how old he was. He was damaged goods and was a lightwelterweight that should have never moved up. You're mentally touched!! Leonard was clearly past it too! If you read what I said, I never claimed Leonard was damaged goods. You claimed that yourself! Norris was a mug. He had fast hands, yes but was nothing. Lets see where he is in the history books.
OscarDanDan76 2 years ago
Can you prove it? I dont think you can. Maybe you just heard someone saying it.
I dont see no other losses other than Chavez. In fact I think the ref stole that fight from Meldrick!
Let's face it, I have all the facts on my side becuz all the wins belong to my fighters.
You only WISH Meldrick had whipped Norris. You only WISH Ray Leonard had whipped Norris. Hell, you'd probably settle for a close fight if he couldnt win and I have never claimed Leonard as damaged goods
Piglatinsuperstar 2 years ago
To prove a point, go and make as many posts as you can on Norris fights and Leonard fights. See what replies you get back. You know fuck all,LOL. You're off your nut. I wanted Norris to beat Taylor and I wanted him to beat Leonard too. I also wanted him to fight a decent fighter, which he never did.
OscarDanDan76 2 years ago
what do I care? Norris won! Thats all that matter is Norris beat him black and blue
nobody likes to look at the Norris-rl fight. it gets few visits excpet by Norris fans like myself. TNT Norris had the perfect style to beat Ray
Norris exceeded expectations set for him, beating a 5 time champ that went unbeaten 11 years. He destroyed leonard, Taylor, Mugabi, Brown
Julian Jackson and Terry Norris are all time greats!
Piglatinsuperstar 2 years ago
LOL!! Isw he fuck!! You are so delusional, you make me laugh!! LOL!!
Leonard was a grandad and why did he not beat Jackson??
Now that is what happens when a real fighter takes on an over rated fighter. fucking love that KO!
OscarDanDan76 2 years ago
My thoughts exactly-that's what happens when you have a REAL fighter against an overrated fighter
you get Norris-SRL
Piglatinsuperstar 2 years ago
I get it now, you're a wind up!
I won't reply any more.
OscarDanDan76 2 years ago
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SirHappyThe1st 2 years ago
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SirHappyThe1st 2 years ago
then why was Leoanrd made such a heavy favorite to beat Terry?
personally, I dont think Ray could ever beat a man with good speed let alone gr8 speed like Norris. that's why it was so easy for Terry to beat him
and that fite between Leonard and kalule? Norris wouldve kicked BOTH their asses on that nite
Piglatinsuperstar 2 years ago
yeah go call your nurse lol
sweetassugar69 2 years ago
LOL!! He's just a wind up merchant I'm sure!
OscarDanDan76 2 years ago
sir-gay I notice you dont reply no more after I spelled out the facts to you surrounding the circumstances before the fight started
Leonard was the big fave but couldnt deliver the goods. that's why I have no faith in leonard. I suspected this was true when he put the Hagler fite on hold 5 years. No true man wouldve stooped to that level. so he got his cheap win but thankfully, Norris came in to show what happens in a leonard match when you still got some fight in you
Total mismatch
Piglatinsuperstar 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Hagler spent his entire career trying to lure smaller men into the ring to fight him and when the last of the small men got into the ring he got owned in a fight that will forever haunt his legacy.
If he had gotten beat by Hearns then it still would have been an embarrassment but atleast Hearns was active and close to his prime,Leonard was a good five years past his prime with only one fight in five years.
the Leonard of 87 would never have beaten the monzons and hopkins but he beat hagler
syrandon 2 years ago
Great posting ............leonard all the way "THE GREATEST"
impact1131 2 years ago
stop lying!
Piglatinsuperstar 2 years ago
leonard definitely won this fight. hagler never really took charge of the fight and ray looked comfortable while hagler looked confused.
BassFace87 2 years ago
To all those smart arses who said that the hagler never land a punch, well, just take a look at leonard swallow eyes after the bell rang.
Domibond007 2 years ago
I score the bout 115-113 to hagler. Leonard made a very smart fight by running 2:50 minutes of every round an then trying to steal the round in the last 10 seconds. Two great fighter.
Domibond007 2 years ago
Leonard indeed did "steal the rounds" (dumb judges). He was too much of a coward to fight complete rounds. And I don't mean stand toe to toe, like a street fight, just give your all, instead of running, clinching, and making faces (damn sissy).He sure got what he deserved from Norris and Camacho.
gprix 2 years ago
And Norris got what he deserved from Jackson, and multiple journeymen..stop making up false names piglatinfagget, get laid or sometjing, get a life, just do something ELSE than hating SRL
BringerOfTheTruth 2 years ago
My oh my, such insults. Did I make a false description of what RL (NOT Sugar, there was only one sugar) did in this, and other fights? Stepping back, dropping his arms, and making faces is good boxing technique?
gprix 2 years ago