Cenk and Baratunde Race Discussion: Cenk Becomes the Race Ref

[Anjimom]

I've been watching for a few months now and just figured out it was pronounced; Jenk, see why everything takes longer in the U.S?? Ha ha

[billionaireby16]

As an African American, and a Person with a stake in this Conversation on Racism, I ENDORSE Cenk Ugyur for the Ambassador of Race Relations!

lol

[karakaraman01]

First of all,I'm black I'm from the caribbean and we see race differently then black American,like for instance prez,Obama we wound call just black,he's of mix race and i don't think anyone should claim ownership to his heritage he's mix not just black,I think blk american should be more diplomatic when it comes to race issue and let whoever is racist toward then drown in there own shit,stop complaining about race and use diplomacy,kiss ass before you kick ass.OBAMA

[richbullva]

if anything the race situation in the Carribean is even worse than it is in the US because of what you said about the Mixed race thing you guys put even more emphasis on light skin and white admixture than do blk americans and that is both sad and amazing considering how color struck blk americans are

[Southwesttwo]

No that's bullshit. Over here in the UK we would call Barack Obama mixed race too. It's not about skin colour, it's just a matter of fact. Why would you call a man Black when he has a White mother? He's just as much White as he is Black. Black Americans are are so stupid for enforcing a racist rule that's biologically invalid that was created by racist White men.

[richbullva]

i agree that Obama is mixed if you subscibe to theories of race but it is odd to black folks that when it was advantageous to use the one drop rule it was used to justify the enslavement of mullatoes now that concept is ignored when we talk about presidents biologically though he does have a white mother i can't deny that i am no big fan because of his blackness anyway blacks take pride inn him because for years they have been told that they don't equate to whites

[PTKilowatt]

You know what, this whole race thing can be boiled down to one thing: choice.

People have the choice to either accept the blowhard guff and blame problems on others based on skin color or culture, or they can choose to think for themselves to rise above it.

They can choose to believe what is spoon-fed to them by the belligerent mouthpieces of ALL colors, or open their eyes and take humanity at the wonderful kaleidoscope of culture that it is.

Moral of the story? Make the choice.

[ambientdiscord]

can you guys please adjust the volume of the sound effects to not be so loud in comparison to your voices. it's kind of tedious to have the sound effects blasted every few seconds after turning up the volume to hear you speak.

[upabittoolate]

now you feel me. that's the argument i was tryna present to that cat. we can parse cenk's origin all day long. if you asked him "yo, are you n. african, central asian, or s.eastern euro?" & cenk could honestly say "yes, yes i am". that's the caveat in that sort of debate. in my experience, people ask "are you latin or white; you're mixed. i can tell". i say "yes, i absolutely am a citizen of the planet earth". there's no such thing as a homogeneous person in this 21st century.

[upabittoolate]

i guess i'm trying to say that the differences are subtle at best. you'd be hard pressed to take a picture of a berber & a black person to a racist & he not call them both 'niggers'. that's my point. that's my point in this thread. cenk being turkish is closer to a persian than an eastern european. at the same time, he's not a true caucasian. therefore calling him a racist caucasian is a bit of a misnomer

[DrakeMagnum]

TYT on MSNBC FTW!

[tico8007]

I don't get Eric Holder he want's to call other people racists yet he defended chiquita banana from facing prosecution and lawsuits due to the fact that they supported terrorist organizations in Colombia, organizations that murdered many people simply for the mere fact that they shared his same skin color, talk about a hypocrite

[Rosannasfriend]

when did he call someone racist?

[Aerotides]

Damn this title looked misleading in my Sub box. I thought it said Cenk and Baratunde Race.

I wanted to see a damn footrace.

[chairde]

Turks are white people.

[mites7]

LOL I dare you to call a turk white

[chairde]

All Turks and Armenians are white. Turks in China are also white. There are ethnic differences like the difference between Irish and Italians but still all Turks are white. Turks are also European. Lebanese are also white and NOT Arab. Don't confuse being Muslim with race.

[mites7]

Well being half Lebanese, I neither look nor identify with being white. Is being white only based on skin color? Going by that, even light skinned people from India or Pakistan should be considered white.

[chairde]

To me being 'White' is wholly based on skin color and not culture. President Obama is half white but we consider him to be black. Danny Thomas, who was ethnic Lebanese certainly looked white to me. Jews also look white. High caste Indians are white.

[pulsar00815]

Obamba be in office for month now. price of watamelons n bananas not come down yet. why am I still payin same money for my watamelons n bananas

[lookatdoor]

"White" people are called "caucasian" because Carolus Linnaeus thought they reminded him of the Caucasus Mountains, not because they actually come from that region.

[Blac13]

Point well made.

[upabittoolate]

cultural & ethnic stability are touch & go. how long did the thousand years rule of hitler's new ubermensche last? people are gonna have sex with each other. people's kids are gonna breed with other people's kids. i'm black but you would probably think i'm from south america or or india if you'd never asked. hell, my man jordan told me i look like a half arab, half chinese, half taino. but truthfully, there's a presence of quite a bit in me. my grandfather was from N. Ireland. but i'm black

[astmapiippu]

@upabittoolate. "Historians estimate that between 11 and 18 million black African slaves crossed the Red Sea, Indian Ocean, and Sahara Desert between 650 and 1900, or more than the 9.4 to 14 million Africans brought to the Americas in the Atlantic slave trade."

Source: Encyplopedia Britannica, BBC and National Review

[upabittoolate]

uh, cenk speaks arabic. odds on, he might speak a little farsii too. and yes, he's speaks turkish too. the notion of cultural 'roots' is a little troublesome because turkey is an extremely transient place. ie, there's been so much intermingling that you can't put a finite limit on 'turkish'. while germans aren't french, i can all but guarantee that their north western european blood is consistent enough to call them more homogeneous than a turk or a hungarian

[astmapiippu]

@upabittoolate. You are right about Turks. They are very heterogonous genetically, becouse of Ottoman Empire where people were moving a lot. Turks also had lots of slaves from different Ethnic goups. Most slaves were allthough Slavs and Finno-Ugrians = people from the area that is now western part of Russia.

[upabittoolate]

that's my point. arabs by nature are kinda transient. so saying that he's not an arab in the 'scientific' sense, is troublesome.

[atripa645]

I turn from pale white in the winter to lobster red in the summer. oh yeah I'm a white boy.

[astmapiippu]

Just wanted to add that most Arabs dont have different skin color than North -Europeans. Most South -Europeans and Arabs are just TANNED. Some South-European/Middle -Eastern ethnicities have naturally even lighter skin color than North-Europeans.

My skin color changes from pale (during winter) time to dark brown (during summer). This is becouse during winter time there is practically no sun light at all, but during summer sun is shining all the time.

[mites7]

same here, people think im just a whiteboy in the winter, a latino or greek in the autumn and spring, and sometimes I get indian in the summer lmao. Middle eastern people are like chamelions.

[astmapiippu]

Caucasian/Europid is a racial term, "white" is social term used in America/England. Im Finnish and I dont understand what "White" means? My ethnicity is Finnish and I dont know if Im white or not. I just know that Turks are genetically in the same group as Europeans. There is no big genetical difference between Europeans and Turks.

American racial terms have nothing to do with scientific definition of race. Scientific races dont have anything to do with "White" or "Black".

[fenderbass]

I'm a "black" man and I have to say thank you.You get it.I wonder about this all the time.I see it because fortunately I don't live in Amerikkka.

[upabittoolate]

what's more, genetics & social development are NOT synonymous. the presence of a haplotype on a chromosome doesn't determine behavior. either way, calling cenk a racist is slanderous. stop that

[astmapiippu]

Why is this racist caucasian dude denoying his color? What a scumbag.

"Olive skinned" hah. "Whiteness" is a social construct. Most "white people" are not really white. He is caucasian and he is trying to deny it.

[atripa645]

He's Turkish not Caucasian.

[astmapiippu]

@atripa645. Turks are Caucasian (+some asian). Many East -Europeans are partly asian also. For example Russians, Finns and Hungarians are partly asian.

Genetically caucasians are Europeans + Turks + Persians + Afgans + some other Middle- Eastern and North -Africans. There is no big difference genetically among these groups.

[Gilgamesh387]

try explaining that to the skin heads.

[thecheney]

you know I can't think of a better way of making that point. this ends any further debate in my mind....

Could Cenk Yugar safely attend a Hammer Skins meeting? NOT LIKELY! lol

[atripa645]

But he doesn't identify himself a Caucasian and he might know his heritage a little better than you. He might have more of the Asian parts of the Turkish population is background. As a Caucasian he has very different features and skin tone than me.

[rgman268]

Umm...The Turks are mainly descended from central asian nomadic Tribes that moved from the planes throughout different points in history. Therefore they are not really Caucasian.

[rgman268]

plains*

[astmapiippu]

@rgman268. Turks were just small goup of people that came to area that was already full of people. Turks are partly asian, but they are mostly "caucasian".

In fact Asians and Europeans are quite close genetically. There is much bigger diference between different African ethnicities (between Bantus, Pygmis and Khoisan for example) than there is between Asians and Europeans. (With Asians I mean Chinese, Japanese etc. - some groups like Papuans and Aboriginals are very different)

[upabittoolate]

arabs typically come from the plains & deserts. they aren't mountain folk. read a book.

[narezul]

yes tiring isnt it and soldier on is the only way it can go but i stick with if theres someone holding shitty beliefs on account of being misinformed it wouldnt last as something would click in anyways theres just the group who, you gotta talk awhile to them, but youll get to the heart of it , so and so is inferior because...., and its not from lack of education these are grown ass people being willfully ignorant thats all

[vagrelm]

people are only minoritys NOW because they WANT to be a minority because it gives them an excuse to be a "victim" so that other will feel sorry for them.

I do not believe in minoritys. i do not believe that people have to be seperated into "races"

History is history. it's in the past. liberals need to stop living in the past and realize that EVERYONE in this country is ALREADY FREE!!! stop playing the victim and start being responsible!!!

[ScarletFBL2]

It's not about pointing to things in the past so that we can say, "hey, look. my ancestor was a slave, so you owe me a job." The past is a learning tool. Something you look at and use as guideline to know what NOT to do. It's not just "liberals" that use the past to justify victim status, like you're stating.

And no one is really "free" in this country. Do you really believe that? The U.S. has a lot of freedom, which I love about this country, but you're naive to think we're really "free."

[upabittoolate]

??? maybe you should get a dictionary

[whoo689]

who the hell is Baratunde?

[miguelin97223]

Baratunde Thurston is a guy Cenk debated on MSNBC a little bit. Just search "MSNBC" among TYT channel videos and it will be one of the most recent ones if not the most recent. After that, they had a series of back & forth arguments on race and actually respect each other - as rational people and debaters always do.

[talon20]

Thurston is such a slave name.

[astmapiippu]

Cenk is white, but he is trying to deny his true color. Not classy...

[miguelin97223]

Cenk is actually olive-skinned, as he says. He's representing for Turkiye in the U.S. He keeps getting hit with a truck & train, and still gets up stronger & better!

[upabittoolate]

cenk uyger is from turkey. the caucusus mountains are near there but he'd be considered an arab by: most people with 3, functioning braincells, vertebrates & higher forms of bacteria. how in the hell did you miss that?

[astmapiippu]

@upabittoolate. Arabs are same racial group with Europeans. They have some African genes in them, becouse of slavery. You know arabs took more slaves from "Black Africa" than West -Europeans during Atlantic Slave trade.

He might be considered "An Arab" in USA, but Arab is not a race genetically/scientifically.

[upabittoolate]

same race? by virtue of what? where they're from? i come from chicago & i know white people that were born in the same hospital on the very same day. i guess that makes me white by your reasoning. because if you want to talk about the presence of a haplotype, arabs are arabs. white people are white people. case closed.

also, you'd be pretty hard pressed to show me how arabs took more than 100M africans. you can try but i don't think you can work that one. but go ahead & try

[rgman268]

Only you would consider a turk to be an arab.

[dwbkmj]

Yes we have come a long way i.e. Black President Supreme court justice CEO's and Black billionaires. It doesn't mean that we have slain the ugly ghosts of bigotry's past. The discussion or lack their of often leaves a bitter taste in everyone's mouth. I know it pisses me off when blacks cry wolf for political and or social gain. Whites are no better and i love to hear this line,"im not racist but." which leads me to conclude that they are about to utter something racist.

[dwbkmj]

we are a nation deeply scorn spiritually politically and divided in race and culture. isalm vs tolrance, christians vs homosexuals, right vs left, blacks vs everyone. True Bush had been compared to a "live" monkey/chimp, what have you, but the connotation and depiction of an African American betrayed as a chimp shot dead isn't then racist i don't know what is, especially knowing the history of such a derogatory term when describing blacks.

[bearlikesbeer]

In Google Images I found literally hundreds of cartoons portraying George W Bush as a monkey or ape. Dancing, throwing his poop, being beaten by his 'minder', etc. But when a cartoon does the same with Obama it's racist? WTF? Sounds to me like you REALLY REALLY REALLY wanna perceive the cartoon as racist, so you can yell and scream about it. I imagine Obama couldn't give two sh*ts either way. Bigger things in life to worry about than cartoons, mate.

[thecheney]

it's not about obama, it is about OUR being offended by the cartoon. if you think W looks like an ape and don't mind the comparison, goody for you, then shut up about it, WE don't want Black people being compared to apes any more. you've had your fun with that, let it go already.

[bearlikesbeer]

Who's "WE"?

[thecheney]

man you are not paying attention and really don't care but i'll try one more time:

"WE" are all of the people who are saying "ENOUGH IS ENOUGH"

I think you were not hugged enough as a little kid. that's sad.

[bearlikesbeer]

It's a just cartoon, mate. Get over it.

[thecheney]

"mate"? really? where are you from? Austraila?

[bleunt]

Stop pressing the annoying buttons, please. -_-

[pulsar00815]

the chimp cartoon was funny but I would have drawn a rabbit wearing a tarzan costume

[Dedhedted71]

We are different. We must 1st acknowledge that before we can have a legitamate conversation about racism. YES we are equal! And YES we all deserve justice. But as in all of nature their is some differences between the races. So to call someone out on a racial traight is not always a bad thing. What is bad is when that person refuses to admitt the traight or acknowledge the history of said traight. Thats when an open & honest discussion about race becomes a dead end argument.

[upabittoolate]

the differences are LITERALLY skin deep. after that, it becomes an issue of how you're socialized. if i'm busy having a conversation with you about how we're the same but i feel dehumanized by racism as a black man & you're busy declaring some subtle difference as if it were a difference of fundament, therein lies the problem. you can't really internalize slavery as a bad thing if you can't acknowledge you & me as the same. feel me?

[Dedhedted71]

But we are not the same!!! And I do not mean that in a negative way. Its just the simple truth. Its a bit more than skin deep. If you strive for equality, thats great. But you should not strive to be the same any more than I should. God made us all different & to acknowledge this is not wrong. Also, I never said the justice system was fair, I said we all deserve justice.

[upabittoolate]

no my friend, we're the same. when you claim that we're somehow different, it opens the door for inquisitions & holocausts & middle passages. all this self-serving rhetoric sounds good but it's not strategically effective in solving the primary problem. as far as justice goes, "deserve" has nothing to do with ANYTHING.

in a nice, warm & fuzzy universe, your theory might be workable. but right now, the fact that we are not all acknowledged as implicitly the same is our MAIN detriment.

[upabittoolate]

lookit, all you'd have to do is look at the conversation cenk had with marcus epstein to see what i mean. it's starts with different. then it's different but equal. then eventually it becomes we're all created equal but some are more equal than others. that's why "difference" being your focal point is troublesome. the doors that were opened to the white supremacist ethos MUST be shut. it has to start philosophically

[Dedhedted71]

Warm & fuzzy??? I feel that is kinda how you are being. Like I said, as soon as one suggests any difference between different breeds of the same human animal, those who struggle for equality get offended. In the hard cold world, nothing is given to you. It must always be earned. Warm & fuzzy is when the winner must act like the loser is not the loser & give him half of his prize money. Suppression must be defeated. Not argued away. And remember supression can always go both ways.

[upabittoolate]

my friend. i'm saying that because it needs to be acknowledged & established. the western construct needs to adapt to that fact. breed is not a taxonomy classification. it's a word for cattle ranchers; not people. if i fuck an asian woman, the baby will come out just as healthy. if you get sick & i get sick, barring drug allergies, we'll get treated with the same therapeutic protocol. i learn just as fast as you. you anger just as fast as me. our neighbor loves his family just as much we do ours

[upabittoolate]

our bodies have the same combination of elemental calcium, iron, nitrogen, salts, water, etc. both of our body temperatures are about 98.6. a bullet through the chest kills us both. we both hear at 20-20000hz. at night, both our eyes see about 3k stars. you & i both react to pain & pleasure. both our bodies have ethanol hydrogenase; we get drunk if we imbibe.

[upabittoolate]

BUT, access to resources is NOT equal in this country. access to "justice" isn't equal. i'll go back to chris brown for a moment. did jackson browne deserve more justice than chris brown? you'd be a liar if you told me that the were treated equally. believe me, i don't need you to define warm & fuzzy. you've already done a fine job providing exhibits of that....with your rhetoric. but you haven't really rendered any evidence beyond empirical. nor have you suggested an approach to this issue

[upabittoolate]

okay. let's try this. i have 206 bones, 32 teeth, 2 eyes, 2 lungs, 1 liver, 10 fingers & 10 toes. my body has to process oxygen & food in order to generate ADP-P. my heart pumps blood. i have a mother, a father & siblings. i have some dreams in life. i like to laugh. i like adventure. i love women. i love books. most of all, i love science. i bet you'd find more on that short list with which you can identify than with which you'd find 'difference'. if not, show me

[upabittoolate]

it's a little troubling to me to hear the rhetoric of "yes we're equal" & "yes we deserve justice" when the reality is that this plural society is NOT equal from the outset & the designed system of justice does not give ME equal treatment. CHRIS brown has already been convicted by the media but JACKSON browne was never treated like a monster in the SAME media 17yrs prior. where's the equality & justice there my friend?

[DarkStar109]

CAN't DO IT!! xD timeless quotes

[bluechipnl]

Is there a way to watch this show live?

[miguelin97223]

bluechipnl: Yes! just go to theyoungturks-dot-com at 6 pm Eastern time for the start of the show, Monday through Friday. It lasts for 3 hours, and goes a bit longer for members.

[KrasnayaArmada]

did you guys get a new camera? cenk looks a bit more fluid lol.

[miguelin97223]

maybe the camera was dry and someone put moisturizer on the lens

[miguelin97223]

...I'm looking at you, Ana...

[selfmadetool]

I would prefer if TYT uploaded their videos in HD.

[Skeezy727]

I think it's just because this isn't from the live stream.

[miguelin97223]

but their live stream doesn't look like it's HD either.

[miguelin97223]

Marcus Epstein sounded like an "ape wike figo."

[KrasnayaArmada]

lol i thought it was a funny debate too.

the guy wouldn't admit and respect the history of slavery.

[miguelin97223]

Epstein sounds like a really young guy who just can't get past the desire to empower himself. I think everyone goes through a libertarian-selfish type of stage in life when things are going well for them. And people like Epstein just get addicted to it. Nothing goes wrong in their lives and they think - look, there's no structural problems - no racism - nothing - you just work hard and can do anything! That's basically the see-nothing, do-nothing attitude on race shared by many Republicans.

[ScarletFBL2]

I couldn't have said it better. Some people just like to point fingers, and say, "Boo, all Republicans are racist!" but that's not always the case. Some people are just lulled into a false sense of security, thinking that everything is okay, that there's nothing that still needs to be worked on.

[Rosannasfriend]

second