The theist Hitler could kill the Jews because of pre-existing Christian anti-semitism fueled by the teachings of Luther.
In Pakistan-India in many wars and pogroms 20 to 80 million Hindus were killed by the muslims in the name of Allah.
Taiping Rebellion in China started by Christian convert to establish Heavenly Kingdom of Taiping, biggest civil war in the history of mankind, 20 to 30 million killed.
this video is typical religious propaganda. i live in a country where 80% of the people are atheist. guess how our crime rate compares to america were there's like 95% religous people. just guess
Why would anybody want the morality of the God of the Old Testament, who, if you believe in him, was unquestionably the most violent, hateful, destructive, merciless, jealous, and cruellest character in all of human history? He torutres his creation. He tempts a man and woman whom he has deprived of the knowledge of right and wrong, and then punishes them and all their progeny forever because they sinned.
When you say "There are many cases of atheists who have tortured and crucified Catholic priests in order to show them that there is no God. These atheists tortured in the name of atheism, whether they were Communists or Nazis" you know that it is a lie, don't you?
Well here is my story, my mom is atheist and I wasn't influenced by bible or god for my morals. Now my morals, I cant hit someone and hate fighting, I don't get angry easily and hmmm in my 23 years of life I was angry just a few times maybe 5 times. Lost great and well paid job as accountant because i refused to do something illegal, don't use bad language and don't swear, still a virgin and I still plan to stay that way because I want only one sex partner in my life. and so on without god!!!
Well at about Societies that are very secular like Sweden, or the rest of Scandinavia, Why are so few atheist in prison in the first place if they are so evil. Is it okay to stone adulterers because the bible says so. What about killing your brother or sister, for saying I found this new religion and you just gotta try it. Would you kill your own flesh and blood for that? You'd probably would, if you think believing in God makes you a more moral person than an atheist who considers it evil.
Total kill count of "atheism", if we are using that term very broadly, approximately 100,000 (100 thousand), which is 100,000 too many. However, religion stands proud with at least 2,000,000,000 (2 billion). "Without God what is the source of morality?" Evolution as social animals, protecting and caring for our own.
"human's are so weak that they do need something like a religion, if you sweep away Christianity, what you are going to get is something like Stalinist Marxism" so Richard Dawkins, who supports the elimination of religion especially Christianity, is by his own admission, in favor of communism?? that is an dangerous idea..
Clearly one of three belief systems dominate the world stage: Christianity 2.1 Billion, Islam 1.5 Billion, and Atheism 1.1 Billion. The question is which would fear living under least if you disagreed with such beliefs? For all the secularization, the West is Christian. The middle east is Islamic. China is atheist. Where do we see the most intellectual and moral freedom?
this video, andits poster, are retarded. I cant believe this video even aired.
Atheists obviously are moral people. To have the arogant view that they're not is really quite ridiculous. Anyone who entertains this view is falling to lies, because they have nothing better.
What does it matter that we dont believe in God?
And 'atheism is integral with all communist states' is a lie, plain and simple.
@SmokiSounds ok. and christians never killed anyone? The difference is, communist leaders who were also atheist didn't kill because they were atheist. thats a lie retards like you use to support your beliefs. It's just like saying all communist leaders were men, therefore men are immoral.
however, christian leaders, who have killed millions, DID quite clearly justify their acts in the name of God.
Those "christian" leaders who organized inquisition or crusades (the only events you can hold on to for your argument), were as far from true Christian essence as me from being an astronaut. They used Faith in service of their own greed and personal benefit. Seen "book of Eli"? Exactly. That book is a weapon, and in wrong hands, presented as something good, it can cause a lot of evil. But that doesn't discredit Faith itself.
@SmokiSounds the bible is full of genocide, murder, and killings in gods name. I'm not sure what you think a true christian is. The bible DOES allow killing, stoning to death, etc. christian slaughter is justified by the bible. And what about the silent victims? how far would society be if we didnt have a dark age ruled by the church? how many diseases could be cured by now?
@woohootrainiscoming Nothing of sorts. I'm sure you copy/pasted that same old assumption. The Bible doesn't support "genocide" or murder in any way, and don't bring out Numbers 31. Too easy. Bible is FULL of DEEP metaphors, and moreover, it's full of TRUTH. And the TRUTH of this world is that it's full of violence, yes, genocides, murders and rape. It's all here. It's all man decisions.
Now, communism is BASED ON RATIONALISM and MATERIALISM. When God is gone, no moral values mean anything anymore, and there's no one to judge you for your actions.
@SmokiSounds Would you kill people if you thought God didn't exist? There were people long before christianity, societies much greater, which were successful. The roman empire, ancient china, ancient egypt, to name a few. All were quite capable of getting along harmoniously. Why does morality need to end at a God? Why can't morality be something much more human? it says a lot about you if you can't be good for goodness sake.
@woohootrainiscoming@woohootrainiscoming I can say it would be much easier to kill someone when you don't have a moral basis for not doing so, or if you know that you won't be held accountable even after your body is dead. And you won't deny that. Sure, it depends on what kind of a person you are, ultimately. But Faith plays a huge role.
Roman empire, ancient egypt...Successful? What did that "success" bring them? That's right - a complete demise. All the gold and glory, for nothing.
@woohootrainiscoming You see, you're quite superficial. Be good for the goodness of it? That's not a basis for an INTELLIGENT assumption. Dig deeper, look for the REASON of such moral basis.
@SmokiSounds because we are a collective species, we survive together. We want to do good, because it benefits our society. It's an instinct we have evolved. Just like a pride of lions don't kill each other, because they're a collective. They have no God, but they still fight to the death to defend each other.
Defending each other is not the same as killing for whatever reason. But tell me, do the lions mourn a death of one of their own? Do they physically and morally feel bad for days, or months, like in case of humans? Are you willing to compare a human that operates on emotions to an animal that operates on instinct?
And then what is the cause of, say, WWII? If Hitler, who saw Darwinism as the future, understood what you're saying, and I'm sure he did, there'd be no war.
Hitler was a catholic. Ever read Mein Kampf? He killed the jews because they slaughtered christ, that was his prime justification. Comparisons between darwinism and hitler are weak and cowardly. That was why WW2 started, he invaded Poland to reclaim the land from the jews, and various treaties led to the axis and alliance in response. I expect you to know history if you're gonna use it as an argument.
@woohootrainiscoming Mein Kampf is a commercial product, man. Not a good argument. But sure, Hitler hated Jews, but do you really think that if he was a TRUE FOLLOWER of Christ, he would gas-chamber and burn Jews? And everyone else, for that matter.
No. Hitler was a disturbed, lost individual with too much power in his hands. I should mention, he also had personal advisers that practiced rituals and black magic, who he listened to much more than his generals. It's scary, makes you think.
@SmokiSounds I think we should just agree that hitler was bat shit insane O_O anywho, the defense that he wasn't a 'true' christian invalidates the original argument. If we can only count the actions of 'true' christians, then we can also only count the actions of 'true' atheists. People who aren't immoral, and quite happily live their lives from day to day.
@SmokiSounds anyway, I've answered a lot of your questions. Can you answer one of mine? Why does morality need to come from the threat of eternal torture? Is your faith in humanity so low, that you think people have to be told they'll burn for eternity before they're moral?
@wohoo There is no "threat". There is a simple choice, with two possible outcomes: eternity with God or eternity without God. And believe me, judging from history, especially recent one, you wouldn't want an eternity shared with all all immoral, bad, savage souls that didn't repent. Why is that so hard to grasp?
My Faith in humanity is definitely low, just from watching TV. Isn't yours?... But that's not the point. God has more faith in every one of us more than you or I ever will :)
This video is trite nonsense, it makes no reasoned arguement for religious morality only a supposition that there can be no morality without religion. A bit like saying that if something is not round, then it must be square. Dawkins does logic no favours by not stamping firmly on such fallacies. If we look to the churches for reason, we would still be in the Dark Ages.
I think the main point is that religions (namely judaism, christianity and islam) have holy books which can and have been used to commit and justify horrendous atrocities. Atheists simply lack a belief in gods and have no holy scripts which allow them to justify being bastards to other people. Of course atheists have killed, but when did an atheist last do something "in honour" of their non-god?!
I only as some not all but some think if no one holds to any gods of any kind. and we them and become all atheist. then that whould stop wars and killings.
I do not think it whould work out as they think it whould. and you can,t do good or bad in the name of atheism. If you did then I think it whould really be some new kind of religion.
Do it for it's own sake or must you have a reward? The human race has done better with cooperation than it has done with confrontation. We have developed better treatment for all sorts of disease. Had it been for religion we would never have progressed beyond the Middle ages and the Earth would still be the centre of the Universe and non-believers would be tortured and burned.
History overwhelming proves that having a religion does not stop people killing, raping and stealing from others, particularly if the victims are of another religion. This documentary confuses atheism as being an alternative faith in science. It is non-belief and it can take many different forms to different people.
You do not use science to choose how to live your life. If we are to live in a co-operative society it benefits everyone if we treat each other with respect and help each other.
You do not need God to tell you to be nice to each other. Are Christians saying that without God, they would rape, murder and steal. Because they get their morals from God, right?
Who would "rely on science to tell you how to live your life"? Thats like relying on a pet shop to drive you to the airport. The two got nothing to do with eachother. Science only attempts to provide facts about the world around you. If those facts drive you to do bad things, then its not science's fault, but your own.
What this video is implying is that Atheism is the force which guides the evil. In fact, Atheism was used as a tool, to deprive those who were under these tyrannies of their feelings of individuality and hope. To clarify, religion is not what grants individuality, but removing one's ability to think on their own certainly will. As for hope, religion provides us with a sense of false hope, that despite our nature we will be forgiven in the end. That, in short, has inspired the evils of religion.
Lets pretend god was real, lets pretend that out of the 1000's of gods there are, your god is the correct one. Lets pretends he came down & decided murder & child rape was a good thing.
Would you then accept that & go around murdering & raping children?
If you answer YES then you might be a sociopath & end up being very harmful to society., I would have you see a Dr.
If you answered NO then it shows Morality is innate & doesn't require a god.
Wow, Are you really that unable to answer anything?, it was a simply yes or no & you can't even handle that. Will you answer anything?
& not really because then that would show we don't get from/need the bible or any religion for our morality, which is the opposite of what most theists try to shove down our throats.
You can't have it both ways. This sort of thing keeps showing religion to be the big steaming pile it is. Theists keep trying make stuff up & it all ends up caving in on itself.
It's funny when you take something that you previously promoted as being so powerful as to answer any question (religion) and then skirt around the question and act like a child in a bad attitude. Simply put, just saying "No, you're wrong." does not count as an answer. If you're going to post a video like this at least have the common decency your deity supposedly gave us all and answer a simple question.
@manhunt48 you don't need the bible for morals, but without a creator true morals cant possibly exist. In an atheist reality there are only opinions as to what is right and what is wrong.
@manhunt48 You are missing the point entirely. The fact that there are moral absolutes, and that we know what they are is proof of God's existence. The premise of your argument is that somehow these moral absolutes are random and could be something other than what they are, which is a false arguement.
Actually saying that proves his point... and if your deity had "programmed" us (as you so aptly put it) with morality then Atheists would still be moral simply because it's innate.
@bigwhammyRocks no... really. you're wrong and manhunt is right. i thought about it... programmed? if it's programmed then why do people do immoral things? you said it's programmed! really... i can't believe how wrong you are!
@bigwhammyRocks "Morality is innate because God programmed it in you!"
In that case, your morality is:
a) Completely independent of whatever worldview a person holds. That is, theism is irrelevant to human views of morality.
and
b) Indistinguishable from subjective morality, because you are appealing to the nature of agents(Along with an unsupported assertion that this nature was programmed by your favorite skyfascist)
and
c) Can be determined to not be objective by inspection
@manhunt48 Atheists represent! We need state atheism! Enforced Atheism. Let the rivers flow with the blood of many millions, without which state atheism has never occured!!!! viva REVOLUTION, RELIGION IS CHILD ABuSE
@manhunt48 That's a highly regurgitated argument, but I have to say that this is a question of bigotry, and Atheism is Choc full of that, I mean just look around you. And after all, this sure as heck beats that cheap Penn and Teller trash.
@fashklash "That's a highly regurgitated argument," It is, but not a single theist can give a coherent answer to it.
" but I have to say that this is a question of bigotry, and Atheism is Choc full of that" A: how is it? and B: How exactly has " I reject your claim that theres a god" choc full of bigotry?
@manhunt48 No one said that that statement was bigoted.Both religion and atheism have had their fair share of bigots,and also,raping and murder were not things that God enjoyed. People like Daniel,Joseph and Elijah are all symbols of Christ in a time when Jesus had not yet come and there was no redemption.Atheists can't really talk since they have no ethical imperatives apart from survival of the fittest.Nowhere in Christs teachings will you find wanton harm even allowed let alone advocated.
@fashklash "Both religion and atheism have had their fair share of bigots," that's completely different to what you said before. Atheists= / =Atheism . that would be like saying because a couple of christian say gay people should die that Christianity as a whole says gay people should die.
".Atheists can't really talk since they have no ethical imperatives apart from survival of the fittest" again! athiests =/= evolution.
You keep equating one thing with something else when they're different.
@fashklash you atheists tend to split hairs over such tiny issues that I'm inclined to conclude that you (yes generalising here,that being the continually angry and appalled Dawkins types who want state atheism and want it now) have way more hang-ups that a theist like say,me.Also,labeling the average(Dawkensian)atheist as an individualist when convenient,with no common objective is hypocritical. Atheism in science relies on evolutionary supposition.Otherwise maybe its better to try agnosticism.
@fashklash tiny issues like that christians gain moral absolutes from a book that states situations where stoning people to death is acceptable, yet they themselves see that as immoral.
not believing in the morals from the source of your morals is a rather large hair to split.
"If a Communist crucifies a priest to prove to him the nonexistence of God, one cannot reasonably say that it was the Communism but not the atheism of the torturer that was responsible for the crime. "
Actually it was the MURDERER who was responsible.
It saddens & appals me to think that there are still people around who agree with the type of thinking displayed in this video.
Well, see, the thing here is he's quite valiantly asserting that people are incapable of their own thought process, that they must be guided by something. It's the major personal flaw that inevitably leads to the condition known as "religious".
The claim "we need morale guidance" is plain idiotic... Whos guidance? What guidance? and by whos standards? Let each one live according to themselves within the laws of that nation. STOP forcing and killing in the name of your "GOD". "My God is the only true God and all others are false" is outdated and completely false. People with deep religious convictions, who feel the need to convert or kill, are more dangerous than any other people in the world.
But the claim here that these people suffered DUE to atheism, rather it was the brutal PEOPLE who did these things. Like saying an Atheist murderer is a murderer because of his lack of God, no! it was that fact he was a murderer that caused it. The Pope during WW2 turned a blind eye to Hitler, and genocide after genocide was caused in the name of religion. The lack of a faith in a God does not turn one into a monster. Can't people just end the prostilyzing and live happily with their OWN VIEWS?
I think the problem is when a government tries to enforce it's will, atheist or religious, on the people. Nothing good can come from that. If a person is born again or finds true reason that is that person. As long as the same person can express him or herself in their home and community there should be no problems. I am an Atheist, my wife is a christian... we have agreed to disagree. I think people need to take them selves less seriously. we should all just live a little.
"Evil is disobeying God"? Why bother to make an argument/video when you can just assert your claim is true by definition?
Here's just one example (out of many) of how absurd this is:
Had I been with Moses when the events of Numbers 15:32-36 occurred, and had I REFUSED to participate in stoning to death a man found in the wilderness for the (Jewish) crime of gathering sticks on the Sabbath, I would've been disobeying God, hence committing evil according to you.
Secular utopians who commit evil (Communists/Jacobins) do so in the name of (motivation/purpose) their revolutionary/utopian vision - not their atheism. Compare that with the Crusades or current Islamic terrorism, where the purpose and motivation is directly religious. If there's ever an atheist suicide bomber, you know his last words won't be "THERE IS NO GOD!!" Whatever his (insane) purpose and motivation might be, it won't be his lack of belief in God.
These Jacobin's had the exact same ideas as the new atheism movement (although not that new it's just been woke up from a deep sleep) anyway why do you Deny it, you are talking the same thing these Jacs did? watch?v=kGGkg7mGVDc
Do you think that this jacs woke up one day and said lets kill all those Christy's? No they tried the reasoning first and those christys just wouldn't listen to reasoning! You atheist today are waking that same line!
"Jacobin's had the exact same ideas as the new atheism movement." Really? I wasn't aware that the so-called New Atheists (with whom I often differ) have or seek political control following a complete social and political revolution, much less advocate murdering all who oppose this non-existent revolution.
Why do mainstream Christians deny that they have the exact same ideas as the Islamic terrorists (you're clearly all Abrahamic monotheists). Why deny it? (See how that works?)
My denial? I thought I made my position clear. To repeat myself:
1) I'm a strong atheist who agrees with almost everything in this video.
2) "Remove God, and humanity and its propensity to evil still remains; secular utopians are just as dangerous as religious zealots." I fully agree with that.
3) Secular utopians who commit evil (Communists/Jacobins) do so in the name of (motivation/purpose) their revolutionary/utopian vision - not their atheism.
I'm a strong atheist who agrees with almost everything in this video. But your description section's comments suggest to me that you missed the meaning of your own video. I see its thesis being "Remove God, and humanity and its propensity to evil still remains; secular utopians are just as dangerous as religious zealots." I fully agree with that. You seem to think it argues that many atheists kill in the name of atheism. It doesn't, and they don't.
You say "to say or imply that no atheist kills in the name of atheism is blatant special pleading." Though technically correct, because of the word "no" (anything is possible for some weirdo), given what I assume you mean, it's false. It's not special pleading. Why? Because killing "in the name of" is about MOTIVATION. The lack of belief in God does not motivate killing. You could argue it removes a check on killing (I'd disagree), but that's not the same as motivating killing.
Consider Stalin's crimes. The Ukraine's mass starvation was to force the people onto the collectivist farms. The motivation was state control via communist ideology. His purges within the Party were to secure his own power. Atheism was irrelevant. Stalin's religious repression was not motivated by atheism, but by religion's threat to the base of his power, as it competes with communist ideology for mens' hearts. (Tyrants must co-opt, neutralize, or destroy religion; they can't ignore it.)
Your description section's comment "if a Communist crucifies a priest to prove to him the nonexistence of God" is odd for several reasons. First, it's not in evidence here. Also, it wouldn't be expected to disprove God to the priest. Finally, atheists aren't motivated by proving things to the dead - and given this, it's clear that atheism couldn't be the motivation even if this happened (more likely it would be ordinary sadism).
Saying I'm "afflicted with such as bad case of atheism" was uncalled for. I'm capable of making nasty little comments too, but you'll notice I've been direct, not insulting.
Your claim "Atheism is a deadly philosophy - period" is wrong on its face, as atheism isn't a philosophy; it's a single epistemic position. There are fuller philosophies that are atheistic, like Secular Humanism/Enlightenment, Objectivism, Nihilism, Communism, and Jacobins, yet they differ greatly from one another.
Cognitive scientist Stephen Pinker on the Edge website has an essay showing the long-term decline of violence in the human species, despite, or perhaps because of the decline in religiosity.
I guess the Bush Administration hired a bunch of atheists to capture, imprison, torture and murder all those theistic Muslim creationists done in the name of the American people.
Oh the irony...religion is responsible for the majority of bigotry/violence in the world today.The idea that humankind is so innately weak & evil that people must be threatened into behaving themselves by a mythological deity's punishment is absurd.Children as young as 4 or 5 have a basic awareness of the difference between good and bad and by 6 or 7 are already developing a moral conscience and the more sophisticated notion of 'ethics'.Our brains have evolved to allow us to choose how to behave
Curious how christians conveniently forget the biblical morality which condones slavery,forces a woman to marry her rapist, executes money lenders (watch out anyone who works in finance)and supports bigotry! You can keep your pic'n'mix religion with all it's hypocricy.
But you don't live in a secular universe. You will face judgment by your creator one day. You know... the one you deny? Yeah HIM. Good Luck with that!
If you view by social standards, I have lead quite a decent life with being a tax paying, kind and caring member of the society and I have saved a life twice already and helped other members of the society. If I died tomorrow, according to you, I would get sentenced to eternal torture? If you or your god sees this as just, I prefer to be a martyr then and take my chances on eternal torture... Who knows if I'll end up enjoying it (sarcasm warning)
I am being judge every day, by the man in the mirror, myself. I am the one to live with the choices i make, and i cant just wish for forgiveness in the confesionroom, or pray.. Forgiveness can only be aquired from the person i have done the immoral deed at..
Yea thats right..Stalin killed Christains and burned down churches, not because the Christians didn't want to think like him, Oh for petes sake not that! Perhaps it was because he just had a bad day? Yea that is a good logical reason Mr. Idoit Dawkins isn't it?
If we got our morals from religion...shit we'd be screwed. We evolved morals. If we used religion, then we'd be stoning people to death. Rational thought shall win, secular societies is what we live in. Theocratic societies are horrible look at the witch trials. I dont need something to tell me how to live my life...
Also to add to what Slayer said Jesus endorses the old testement multiple times in the new testemet down to the i's and t's (Matthew 5:18-19). There are also about 4 or 5 more instances but this is the main one that showcases Jesus's dedication to the OT, known at that time as the scriptures and the laws of the prophets. Modern +'s are more humanist then +'s in fact most are christians by default. They rarely go to church and they just trust that theres some guy in the heavens named God.
well i get my morals from religion.. and yes i stone people to death all the time. = D OBVIOUSLY !! lol @ "we evolved morals". Do you have a moral tree of evolution that you could point to? I'd be interested to see it. and... I don't get it why would you have a problem with killing if the strong survive? Isn't that good for our gene pool?
Did you know that all prominent Christians including Hovind and Cameron know that what they preach is a lie! They have no evidence for their claims and use straw-man tactics to achieve their goal of total human mind control. The Cold War is far from over, wake up and fight against these communistic Christians, before it's too late! Think while you still can, and fight the fight for humanity, not mysticism!
You're arguments are totally wrong, off-base, and unfair. I do NOT "look to science" to tell me how to live my life - that's ludicrious. I get my morals and values THE SAME WAY YOU AND EVERYBODY ELSE GETS THEIRS - from my parents and the society that I live in, which has rules, laws, regulations, and standards of conduct for decent human behavior. Darwinism is not a form of moral behavior, you're twisting words and you appear quite foolish in doing so.
dkreichen1968, clearly you haven't a clue of what you're talking about. THere's nothing wrong with obtaining knowledge. It saves you from looking goofy.
The Jacobins were collectivists, as were Stalin, Hitler and the rest of the examples commonly thrown at Athiests. The reason why collectivist and religious autocracy lead to the same ends (bloody massacre) is because they both hold that individuals can be sacrificed for the "greater good". If you assume that people are sacrificial animals any # of bodies is acceptable. Objectivism rejects both secular and religious collectivism. Once you reject god, an objectivist morality is waiting.
What's wrong with people making their own morality. Humans are hardwired for empathy and altruism. Whether you have religion or not a healthy human being will want to treat others as they would like to be treated. Everything else is just social learning.
Christianity is a belief. Atheism is NOT a belief, not a philosophy, not a worldview but instead an opinion on religion - it does not tell you what the person's philosophy is.
Imagine that you're soooo brainwashed into Taoism that you can only see the world as Tao and a-Tao. You point to the Nazis, Torquemada, Stalin and Mao and say "See what a-Tao accomplishes!"
When we view the atrocities of the nazis.. do we say "Adolph Hitler rejected communism and persecuted communists - see what becomes of a philosophy of a-communism." Do we call Adolph Hitler a Nazi or an a-communist? An anticommunist American would say: "Hitler was right about communists but his methods were wrong and evil." Same as most atheists would say about religion and Lenin. Would it make ANY sense to group all anticommunists together with Hitler as having the same worldview? RIDICULOUS!
All atheists share the belief that there is no God. Since the existence of a God, who defines an ethic, is the only basis upon which an ethic can be built, any atheist, especially those in political power can only be expected to do as they please. Richard Dawkins writing his own 10 commandments is a case in point. He has become his own god, creating his own ethic. Hitler and Stalin did the exact same thing. There can be no basis for an ethic apart from the existence of God.
1) Ethics and morality have nothing to do with gods. Wolves, ants, baboons, dogs all exhibit morality which is nothing more than the evolved ability to interact in a social structure.
2) Civilizations based on religion demonstrate poor morality: Iran, Aztecs, Catholic Spain etc.
3) Christians live by secular NOT Biblical morality as they do not kill unbelieving family members, are against slavery, own property, are actually against genocidal slaughters etc.
1) Morality has little to do with ethics. Morality is what is, ethics is what should to be. The Bible says that unjust hatred is murder, and lust is adultry. Does anyone live up to that standard?
2) Biblical Christianity teaches that man made religion, including Romans Catholicism, can't produce a people whose morality matches the Biblical ethic. Only a miraculous work of the Holy Spirit can do that.
3) This third point shows a basic misunderstanding of the concepts of law and gospel.
The law condemns us. The gospel sets us free. The law says that we deserve God's wrath. The gospel says that if we will stop trusting in our own rigtheousness, and trust in Christ, then Christ took God's wrath on Himself for our failure.
Don't ever even think that I would argue for cultural Christianity. Most of it has little to do with the Bible, but your third comment shows a basic misunderstanding of what the Bible teaches.
Christians can NEVER face this. The God of the OT is a vicious, brutal, mass-murdering, immoral psychopath! Our morals come from better places like Greece, Rome and the Enlightenment. If you lived by Biblical laws - you would stone a nonvirgin bride to DEATH on her father's doorstep and execute Sabbath breakers. I CRINGE that Christians actually can delude themselves into seeing these disgusting, immoral laws as moral.
1) I'm willing to bet that I have a much more complete understanding of the Bible than you do. I've read 3 Bibles, attended 2 years in Bible College and read a room full of supporting literature.
2) The Bible at its basis is IMmoral. Is it moral to murder your brother if he tries to talk you into another religion? Deut 13:6-10 says that you MUST do it! Jesus supported and NEVER cancelled the Deuteronomical code. Paul eliminated Kosher law but that's it.
You still don't get it! Under God's justice all sins deserve not just a death sentence, but the eternal punishment of hell. Everyone is guilty, everyone deserves hell. Our only hope is that God has provided a substitute in our place. The law was never given as a means of gaining right standing with God, but as a "schoolmaster" to show us our need for a redeemer. That is taught throughout both Testaments. Given the state of modern Christianity, Bible College means little.
I would also have to point out that you somehow think that you have the right to call God's law immoral. Who do you think you are to talk back to God?
Apart from the existence of God terms like good and evil, right and wrong, moral and immoral have no real meaning. What may be right and moral for one group of people may not be for another.
I am a human being. I exist, which places me in a position of power infinitely superior to the impotence of non-existence. Therefore I am infinitely more powerful than God and I can speak with impunity. The very concept of God is evil. The morality of God is evil. Christianity, Islam, Judaism are at their hearts evil. I wish people would realize this and abandon blind faith in favor of reason as the arbiter of their consciences.
You've JUST said might makes right. If Satan had the throne of heaven would you be worshiping him and shaming those who would question his many acts of evil? You've completely reversed yourself! Instead of God being the perfect morality, he is now an arbitrary tyrant that you dare not question. How do you possibly get morality out of that? Should we follow this morality? My kid brings me a cookie I didn't ask for so I kill him like Jehovah does to Aaron's children. Is this good morality?
God's law is not arbitrary, it is based on His very nature. Your morality, if you get it from society, is arbitrary. Are we talking about Hindu society where group sex and beastiality is depicted in temple art and widows are burned to death on their husbands funeral pyre. Are we talking about ancient Greek culture where male homosexuality was prefered because women were believed to be stupid. That is why I say that if you take God out there is no right and wrong, no good or evil.
Jehovah's laws are the laws of a brutal, sadistic dictator more in line with a Kim Jong Il or Sadaam Hussein then Abraham Lincoln. In fact even worse! If one of Il's or Hussein's generals did something wrong I doubt that the dictator would murder 70,000 of his innocent troops but instead punish the General directly. Jehovah isn't even as moral as our world's worst dictators and YET you claim we get our morals from him!?!? RIDICULOUS!
Where do you get your morals from? Are there any innocent people? Were the 70,000 troops innocent? Are you innocent? Abraham Lincolin wanted to send the freed slaves back to Africa to starve. No Christian slaveholder would ever do that. Who are you to judge one better than the other? cont...
"Therefore you are without excuse, O man, whoever you are who judge. For in that which you judge another, you condemn yourself. For you who judge practice the same things. We know that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who practice such things." Romans 2:1,2
"Under God's justice all sins deserve not just a death sentence, "
Which shows how immoral and unjust this demon-god is. If my child disobeys me, I punish him in an appropriate manner. If he steals a cookie and I reach for a butcher knife - I'm a rabid psychopath.
"Our only hope is that God has provided a substitute in our place."
So he sacrifices himself to himself in order to appease himself over a crazy rule he (with foreknowledge) made. That might make sense on Bizarro world.
"The law was never given as a means of gaining right"
The laws of Moses were, at their basis, primitive, brutal and immoral. You've stated that we get morality from the Bible - well how many visiting Mormons have you murdered and dragged into your basement? If you find a Christian with a Hindu girl - do you thrust a spear through both of them to keep Jehovah's "just" plague from killing thousands. If you see a store open on Saturday, do you pull out the shopkeeper and stone him?
So, what you are saying is that the God of the Bible shouldn't be taken seriously because the God of the Bible demanded to be taken seriously and very few people take Him seriously anymore.
Since you have rejected the Bible as a standard of morality, on what do you base your morality?
In Deuteronomy, in the passages that talk about taking people outside of the city and stoning them, the phrase "you shall put away the evil from the midst of you" appears repeatedly. Where is that phrase repeated in the New Testament, and in what context?
"you shall put away the evil" is pointless because:
1) Jesus was a garden variety conman/cult leader - not that much different from David Koresh or Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh. I really don't care what he had to say.
2) People suffered under these horrible, immoral, evil laws for 1000s of years. WHO CARES what some cult leader says some 1000s of years after the laws were written? If the laws were evil, then YHWH was evil for writing them. If not then you should follow them and end up in jail.
Don't worry about dodging my direct question - every Christian dodges it instead of answering it.
The answer you should've given is "No, of course I wouldn't do anything like you described. That behavior is immoral, savage and absolutely wrong! How could ANYONE follow a god that is so immoral that it would actually demand this kind of unconscionable behavior from its people?!"
I get my morality from society - just like you do. You don't follow Bible morality or else you'd be in prison.
Have you ever heard of the concept of separation of church and state? Is a Mormon worthy of death? Yes! Is a professing Christian who purposely hooks up with a Hindu worthy of death? Yes! Does the church have the right, during this dispensation, to execute the death penalty? No! It is separate and distinct from the state, which is why I brought up the fact that the phrase "you shall put away the evil from the midst of you" is repeated in the New Testament. (1 Corinthians 5:13)
Does the church have the authority to judge outside of its ranks? No! (1 Corinthians 5:12) And no, I don't get my morality from society, or I would believe that fornication, homosexuallity, and abortion are okay. I don't even accept the idea that all forms of slavery are immoral. If it was the Bible would say so! That doesn't mean that I think John Newton was wrong about Black African slavery!
No Joke - I am taking both your comments and using them to prove how evil and corrupting religion is. Your immoral statements come directly from the immorality of an ancient book of mythology called the Bible. Luckily you live in the USA which was founded on secularism and FAR more moral than any man-made god.
You have a man made god. I don't! Your god has the screen name templarart. That is why you can make up your own morality and call anyone who doesn't believe in your made up morality immoral. God is my judge, I must answer to Him! The scarry thing is that you will also have to answer to Him. Are you prepared?
1) A god is a powerful, worshiped, supernatural being. Since it is worshiped, it has a religion.
2) A creator without a religion is NOT a god and irrelevant to our lives.
3) I can prove beyond reasonable doubt to any neutral observer that Jehovah could not possibly exist.
4) You don't believe in centaurs. Why? Have you disproven their existence? No, you simply accept the more likely conclusion that they do NOT exist over the far less likely option that they do. Same with gods.
If God is dead all things are permissible! Atheists murder, rape, and steal pricisely because there is nothing to stop them from murdering, raping, and stealing. They have become gods in their own universe.
"It amounts to saying that atheism is by definition a belief-system"
You really have to get it into your head that atheism does not try to replace theistic systems of believe AT ALL.
What you believe appears ridiculous and childish to me and I can't bring myself to believe it also.
The atheist's lack of belief is JUST THAT - the NON-belief in some weird and divisive fairytales. It goes no further than this. It does not go on to demand sacrifice, murder, genocide...
While it is possible that there have been atheists that have killed based on other's beliefs. It is hard to say that this was done in the name of atheism. Atheism is defined as a lack of belief.
How do you know that communists killed priests to show them there is no god?
As far as Nazism, Hitler's beliefs are irrelevant. His followers were Christian.
I agree with the final point. Really it's not religion per se that is the problem, but the DOGMA that usually corresponds...
I recently saw a video by a Youtube militant atheist. In the comments were numerous people who stated with quite the gusto "To hell with Christians" "Kill all the Christians" "kill all religious people!" ... but yeah, youre right, nobody would think that way "in the name of atheism"
Communists killed in the name of......???
Communism
Crusaders killed in the name of...??
God.
The theist Hitler could kill the Jews because of pre-existing Christian anti-semitism fueled by the teachings of Luther.
In Pakistan-India in many wars and pogroms 20 to 80 million Hindus were killed by the muslims in the name of Allah.
Taiping Rebellion in China started by Christian convert to establish Heavenly Kingdom of Taiping, biggest civil war in the history of mankind, 20 to 30 million killed.
killer4hire 2 months ago
this video is typical religious propaganda. i live in a country where 80% of the people are atheist. guess how our crime rate compares to america were there's like 95% religous people. just guess
floriswazza 3 months ago
@fashklash the thing about atheism / atheists is, because they have no specific set of beliefs or ideals, you can't really generalize them very well
Rinneganx6 6 months ago
This guy looks like a more levelheaded version of Dawkins lol
fashklash 7 months ago
So what we are being told here is to not trust any group of people who claim to have an absolute source of morality.
Hufflewaffle 8 months ago
Why would anybody want the morality of the God of the Old Testament, who, if you believe in him, was unquestionably the most violent, hateful, destructive, merciless, jealous, and cruellest character in all of human history? He torutres his creation. He tempts a man and woman whom he has deprived of the knowledge of right and wrong, and then punishes them and all their progeny forever because they sinned.
That's the moral standard you people worship?
Astrobrant2 9 months ago
When you say "There are many cases of atheists who have tortured and crucified Catholic priests in order to show them that there is no God. These atheists tortured in the name of atheism, whether they were Communists or Nazis" you know that it is a lie, don't you?
NoFaithInFolklore 10 months ago
Well here is my story, my mom is atheist and I wasn't influenced by bible or god for my morals. Now my morals, I cant hit someone and hate fighting, I don't get angry easily and hmmm in my 23 years of life I was angry just a few times maybe 5 times. Lost great and well paid job as accountant because i refused to do something illegal, don't use bad language and don't swear, still a virgin and I still plan to stay that way because I want only one sex partner in my life. and so on without god!!!
Satybp666 10 months ago
As an athiest and a misanthrope, I say fuck people.
andydeee 11 months ago
Well at about Societies that are very secular like Sweden, or the rest of Scandinavia, Why are so few atheist in prison in the first place if they are so evil. Is it okay to stone adulterers because the bible says so. What about killing your brother or sister, for saying I found this new religion and you just gotta try it. Would you kill your own flesh and blood for that? You'd probably would, if you think believing in God makes you a more moral person than an atheist who considers it evil.
slicingwater 1 year ago
Science is not a way philosophy, science explains how the universe works.
Replicante05 1 year ago
religious people need someone to tell them that killing is wrong.
atheists can figure it out for themselves.
religious people need a all powerful parental figure to tell them not to do anything bad.
atheists can figure out what is right and wrong for themselves
AceofDiamonds0 1 year ago
I don't rely on religion for my morals because I don't need to.
If I have to rely on God to know right from wrong, then there's an inherent problem in my morals.
I am a good person because I want to be, not because God tells me to be.
TuahShinguru 1 year ago
5.44. "Evil" pops up on the screen for a second. Is this video HONESTLY trying to brainwash people into associating atheism with evil?
666satanification666 1 year ago
@666satanification666 lol they just fail at everything. Doesnt even know what a fallacy is...
grendelee 1 year ago
Total kill count of "atheism", if we are using that term very broadly, approximately 100,000 (100 thousand), which is 100,000 too many. However, religion stands proud with at least 2,000,000,000 (2 billion). "Without God what is the source of morality?" Evolution as social animals, protecting and caring for our own.
spottywolf 1 year ago
"human's are so weak that they do need something like a religion, if you sweep away Christianity, what you are going to get is something like Stalinist Marxism" so Richard Dawkins, who supports the elimination of religion especially Christianity, is by his own admission, in favor of communism?? that is an dangerous idea..
RaubeeTM 1 year ago
is it just me or is there a bunch of subliminal messaging in this video...
ascharwath 1 year ago
Hilarious shit.
derek24hudson 1 year ago
Good and evil do not exist tangibly. They only exist by the perception of humans.
liebeundherzschmerz 1 year ago
Evolution supplies all that is needed for the development
of codes of conduct that preserve and facilitate
survival and co-operation.
Such sensitivities in no way support any particular god.
In fact, as Christians believe that their most heinous acts
will be magically vanished and forgotten via human sacrifice,
they actually have very little incentive to act in a moral manner.
Hmmm..
That explains a lot.
Imaginefree69 1 year ago
Aside from the unicorns and talking snakes and donkeys
and the requirement to practice ritualized cannibalism
and a 600 year old goat herder building a Titanic from desert shrubs,
we see that your god commanded his people
to rip little girls from the bloody arms of their dead mothers
and take them home to share with YHVH's priests.
This is the book you are basing your morality on?
How obscene.
Imaginefree69 1 year ago
Clearly one of three belief systems dominate the world stage: Christianity 2.1 Billion, Islam 1.5 Billion, and Atheism 1.1 Billion. The question is which would fear living under least if you disagreed with such beliefs? For all the secularization, the West is Christian. The middle east is Islamic. China is atheist. Where do we see the most intellectual and moral freedom?
cougarcrossing 1 year ago
Other than the "atheism axis of evil" credits, the video was well presented. There was no call for such a splash at the end.
cougarcrossing 1 year ago
My fellow atheists, you are not alone. And if we are going to Hell, I'll bring cookies. :)
bookwormsrcool 1 year ago
this video, andits poster, are retarded. I cant believe this video even aired.
Atheists obviously are moral people. To have the arogant view that they're not is really quite ridiculous. Anyone who entertains this view is falling to lies, because they have nothing better.
What does it matter that we dont believe in God?
And 'atheism is integral with all communist states' is a lie, plain and simple.
woohootrainiscoming 1 year ago
@woohootrainiscoming
No lie, FACT. Plain and simple.
SmokiSounds 1 year ago
@SmokiSounds ok. and christians never killed anyone? The difference is, communist leaders who were also atheist didn't kill because they were atheist. thats a lie retards like you use to support your beliefs. It's just like saying all communist leaders were men, therefore men are immoral.
however, christian leaders, who have killed millions, DID quite clearly justify their acts in the name of God.
woohootrainiscoming 1 year ago
@woohootrainiscoming Wrong. And I'm not surprised, considering.
Those "christian" leaders who organized inquisition or crusades (the only events you can hold on to for your argument), were as far from true Christian essence as me from being an astronaut. They used Faith in service of their own greed and personal benefit. Seen "book of Eli"? Exactly. That book is a weapon, and in wrong hands, presented as something good, it can cause a lot of evil. But that doesn't discredit Faith itself.
SmokiSounds 1 year ago
@SmokiSounds the bible is full of genocide, murder, and killings in gods name. I'm not sure what you think a true christian is. The bible DOES allow killing, stoning to death, etc. christian slaughter is justified by the bible. And what about the silent victims? how far would society be if we didnt have a dark age ruled by the church? how many diseases could be cured by now?
woohootrainiscoming 1 year ago
@woohootrainiscoming Nothing of sorts. I'm sure you copy/pasted that same old assumption. The Bible doesn't support "genocide" or murder in any way, and don't bring out Numbers 31. Too easy. Bible is FULL of DEEP metaphors, and moreover, it's full of TRUTH. And the TRUTH of this world is that it's full of violence, yes, genocides, murders and rape. It's all here. It's all man decisions.
SmokiSounds 1 year ago
@woohootrainiscoming
Now, communism is BASED ON RATIONALISM and MATERIALISM. When God is gone, no moral values mean anything anymore, and there's no one to judge you for your actions.
SmokiSounds 1 year ago
@SmokiSounds Would you kill people if you thought God didn't exist? There were people long before christianity, societies much greater, which were successful. The roman empire, ancient china, ancient egypt, to name a few. All were quite capable of getting along harmoniously. Why does morality need to end at a God? Why can't morality be something much more human? it says a lot about you if you can't be good for goodness sake.
woohootrainiscoming 1 year ago
@woohootrainiscoming @woohootrainiscoming I can say it would be much easier to kill someone when you don't have a moral basis for not doing so, or if you know that you won't be held accountable even after your body is dead. And you won't deny that. Sure, it depends on what kind of a person you are, ultimately. But Faith plays a huge role.
Roman empire, ancient egypt...Successful? What did that "success" bring them? That's right - a complete demise. All the gold and glory, for nothing.
SmokiSounds 1 year ago
@woohootrainiscoming You see, you're quite superficial. Be good for the goodness of it? That's not a basis for an INTELLIGENT assumption. Dig deeper, look for the REASON of such moral basis.
SmokiSounds 1 year ago
@SmokiSounds because we are a collective species, we survive together. We want to do good, because it benefits our society. It's an instinct we have evolved. Just like a pride of lions don't kill each other, because they're a collective. They have no God, but they still fight to the death to defend each other.
woohootrainiscoming 1 year ago
@woohootrainiscoming
Defending each other is not the same as killing for whatever reason. But tell me, do the lions mourn a death of one of their own? Do they physically and morally feel bad for days, or months, like in case of humans? Are you willing to compare a human that operates on emotions to an animal that operates on instinct?
And then what is the cause of, say, WWII? If Hitler, who saw Darwinism as the future, understood what you're saying, and I'm sure he did, there'd be no war.
SmokiSounds 1 year ago
Hitler was a catholic. Ever read Mein Kampf? He killed the jews because they slaughtered christ, that was his prime justification. Comparisons between darwinism and hitler are weak and cowardly. That was why WW2 started, he invaded Poland to reclaim the land from the jews, and various treaties led to the axis and alliance in response. I expect you to know history if you're gonna use it as an argument.
woohootrainiscoming 1 year ago
@woohootrainiscoming Mein Kampf is a commercial product, man. Not a good argument. But sure, Hitler hated Jews, but do you really think that if he was a TRUE FOLLOWER of Christ, he would gas-chamber and burn Jews? And everyone else, for that matter.
No. Hitler was a disturbed, lost individual with too much power in his hands. I should mention, he also had personal advisers that practiced rituals and black magic, who he listened to much more than his generals. It's scary, makes you think.
SmokiSounds 1 year ago
@SmokiSounds I think we should just agree that hitler was bat shit insane O_O anywho, the defense that he wasn't a 'true' christian invalidates the original argument. If we can only count the actions of 'true' christians, then we can also only count the actions of 'true' atheists. People who aren't immoral, and quite happily live their lives from day to day.
woohootrainiscoming 1 year ago
@SmokiSounds anyway, I've answered a lot of your questions. Can you answer one of mine? Why does morality need to come from the threat of eternal torture? Is your faith in humanity so low, that you think people have to be told they'll burn for eternity before they're moral?
woohootrainiscoming 1 year ago
@wohoo There is no "threat". There is a simple choice, with two possible outcomes: eternity with God or eternity without God. And believe me, judging from history, especially recent one, you wouldn't want an eternity shared with all all immoral, bad, savage souls that didn't repent. Why is that so hard to grasp?
My Faith in humanity is definitely low, just from watching TV. Isn't yours?... But that's not the point. God has more faith in every one of us more than you or I ever will :)
SmokiSounds 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Evolution supplies all that is needed for the development
of codes of conduct that preserve and facilitate
survival and co-operation,
which is precisely what these "laws" do.
Such sensitivities in no way support any particular god.
In fact, as Christians believe that their most heinous acts
will be magically vanished and forgotten via human sacrifice,
they actually have very little incentive to act in a moral manner.
Hmmm..
That just might explain a hell of a lot.
Imaginefree69 2 years ago
This video is trite nonsense, it makes no reasoned arguement for religious morality only a supposition that there can be no morality without religion. A bit like saying that if something is not round, then it must be square. Dawkins does logic no favours by not stamping firmly on such fallacies. If we look to the churches for reason, we would still be in the Dark Ages.
FrankOBo1 2 years ago
nice opinion bro *gives you a thumbs up and smirks* thanks for sharing.
CpsLock3 2 years ago
I think the main point is that religions (namely judaism, christianity and islam) have holy books which can and have been used to commit and justify horrendous atrocities. Atheists simply lack a belief in gods and have no holy scripts which allow them to justify being bastards to other people. Of course atheists have killed, but when did an atheist last do something "in honour" of their non-god?!
AtheistBrit 2 years ago
I have a Q for atheism if you can,t kill in the name of atheism how can you do Good in the name of atheism??
CIRELUX 2 years ago
Why should anyone want to do good "in the name of atheism"? Isn't doing good its own end?
VeryEvilPettingZoo 2 years ago
I only as some not all but some think if no one holds to any gods of any kind. and we them and become all atheist. then that whould stop wars and killings.
I do not think it whould work out as they think it whould. and you can,t do good or bad in the name of atheism. If you did then I think it whould really be some new kind of religion.
good post btw :) 5 * :)
CIRELUX 2 years ago
@CIRELUX
Do it for it's own sake or must you have a reward? The human race has done better with cooperation than it has done with confrontation. We have developed better treatment for all sorts of disease. Had it been for religion we would never have progressed beyond the Middle ages and the Earth would still be the centre of the Universe and non-believers would be tortured and burned.
FrankOBo1 2 years ago
what is this vid called and do you have a link of it I whould like to see the hole thing
CIRELUX 2 years ago
whats with the flashing words in the background? some cheesy attempt at subliminal messaging? or is this whole video satire?
setheroon1 2 years ago
Before many know about religion, they are immersed in a society, which has it's own moral beliefs. Why can not these be completely independent?
dfgggg 2 years ago
Just because you have an english accent does not mean you're in any way intelligent, as seen in this video.
209809367 2 years ago
History overwhelming proves that having a religion does not stop people killing, raping and stealing from others, particularly if the victims are of another religion. This documentary confuses atheism as being an alternative faith in science. It is non-belief and it can take many different forms to different people.
squirrly001 2 years ago
Hey, interesting video. What documentary is this from?
Shazoolo 2 years ago
You do not use science to choose how to live your life. If we are to live in a co-operative society it benefits everyone if we treat each other with respect and help each other.
You do not need God to tell you to be nice to each other. Are Christians saying that without God, they would rape, murder and steal. Because they get their morals from God, right?
Failed logic = FAIL
VermilionUK 2 years ago
relis always talk bullshit and think they have an argument.
stalin was othodox and adolf katholic ...so shut up u vile evil traitor to the human race..
robot014 2 years ago
Who would "rely on science to tell you how to live your life"? Thats like relying on a pet shop to drive you to the airport. The two got nothing to do with eachother. Science only attempts to provide facts about the world around you. If those facts drive you to do bad things, then its not science's fault, but your own.
pahlrosp 2 years ago
What this video is implying is that Atheism is the force which guides the evil. In fact, Atheism was used as a tool, to deprive those who were under these tyrannies of their feelings of individuality and hope. To clarify, religion is not what grants individuality, but removing one's ability to think on their own certainly will. As for hope, religion provides us with a sense of false hope, that despite our nature we will be forgiven in the end. That, in short, has inspired the evils of religion.
crueltyinc 2 years ago
A simple question. Answer either yes or no.
Lets pretend god was real, lets pretend that out of the 1000's of gods there are, your god is the correct one. Lets pretends he came down & decided murder & child rape was a good thing.
Would you then accept that & go around murdering & raping children?
If you answer YES then you might be a sociopath & end up being very harmful to society., I would have you see a Dr.
If you answered NO then it shows Morality is innate & doesn't require a god.
manhunt48 2 years ago
Thanks - you just made a good argument for theism. Morality is innate because God programmed it in you!
bigwhammyRocks 2 years ago
Wow, Are you really that unable to answer anything?, it was a simply yes or no & you can't even handle that. Will you answer anything?
& not really because then that would show we don't get from/need the bible or any religion for our morality, which is the opposite of what most theists try to shove down our throats.
You can't have it both ways. This sort of thing keeps showing religion to be the big steaming pile it is. Theists keep trying make stuff up & it all ends up caving in on itself.
manhunt48 2 years ago
I'm not trying to have it both ways you have had it backwards the whole time.
bigwhammyRocks 2 years ago
It's funny when you take something that you previously promoted as being so powerful as to answer any question (religion) and then skirt around the question and act like a child in a bad attitude. Simply put, just saying "No, you're wrong." does not count as an answer. If you're going to post a video like this at least have the common decency your deity supposedly gave us all and answer a simple question.
crueltyinc 2 years ago
@manhunt48 you don't need the bible for morals, but without a creator true morals cant possibly exist. In an atheist reality there are only opinions as to what is right and what is wrong.
jouc12 1 year ago
@manhunt48 You are missing the point entirely. The fact that there are moral absolutes, and that we know what they are is proof of God's existence. The premise of your argument is that somehow these moral absolutes are random and could be something other than what they are, which is a false arguement.
Gaius8666a 1 year ago
@Gaius8666a
But there are not moral absolutes as his clear refusal to answer an extremely simple question shows. Simply stating so doesn't mean they do.
Also lets for your sake pretend they did exist, how in anyway what so ever does that prove a God? and more specifically your god?
I'm not arguing that moral absolutes are random so your just trying to construct a strawman.
manhunt48 1 year ago
Actually saying that proves his point... and if your deity had "programmed" us (as you so aptly put it) with morality then Atheists would still be moral simply because it's innate.
crueltyinc 2 years ago
@bigwhammyRocks no... really. you're wrong and manhunt is right. i thought about it... programmed? if it's programmed then why do people do immoral things? you said it's programmed! really... i can't believe how wrong you are!
UberTankred 1 year ago
@bigwhammyRocks "Morality is innate because God programmed it in you!"
In that case, your morality is:
a) Completely independent of whatever worldview a person holds. That is, theism is irrelevant to human views of morality.
and
b) Indistinguishable from subjective morality, because you are appealing to the nature of agents(Along with an unsupported assertion that this nature was programmed by your favorite skyfascist)
and
c) Can be determined to not be objective by inspection
Gnomefro 11 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@manhunt48 Atheists represent! We need state atheism! Enforced Atheism. Let the rivers flow with the blood of many millions, without which state atheism has never occured!!!! viva REVOLUTION, RELIGION IS CHILD ABuSE
fashklash 7 months ago
@manhunt48 That's a highly regurgitated argument, but I have to say that this is a question of bigotry, and Atheism is Choc full of that, I mean just look around you. And after all, this sure as heck beats that cheap Penn and Teller trash.
fashklash 7 months ago
@fashklash "That's a highly regurgitated argument," It is, but not a single theist can give a coherent answer to it.
" but I have to say that this is a question of bigotry, and Atheism is Choc full of that" A: how is it? and B: How exactly has " I reject your claim that theres a god" choc full of bigotry?
manhunt48 7 months ago
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fashklash 7 months ago
Comment removed
fashklash 7 months ago
@manhunt48 No one said that that statement was bigoted.Both religion and atheism have had their fair share of bigots,and also,raping and murder were not things that God enjoyed. People like Daniel,Joseph and Elijah are all symbols of Christ in a time when Jesus had not yet come and there was no redemption.Atheists can't really talk since they have no ethical imperatives apart from survival of the fittest.Nowhere in Christs teachings will you find wanton harm even allowed let alone advocated.
fashklash 7 months ago
@fashklash "Both religion and atheism have had their fair share of bigots," that's completely different to what you said before. Atheists= / =Atheism . that would be like saying because a couple of christian say gay people should die that Christianity as a whole says gay people should die.
".Atheists can't really talk since they have no ethical imperatives apart from survival of the fittest" again! athiests =/= evolution.
You keep equating one thing with something else when they're different.
manhunt48 7 months ago
@fashklash you atheists tend to split hairs over such tiny issues that I'm inclined to conclude that you (yes generalising here,that being the continually angry and appalled Dawkins types who want state atheism and want it now) have way more hang-ups that a theist like say,me.Also,labeling the average(Dawkensian)atheist as an individualist when convenient,with no common objective is hypocritical. Atheism in science relies on evolutionary supposition.Otherwise maybe its better to try agnosticism.
fashklash 7 months ago
@fashklash tiny issues like that christians gain moral absolutes from a book that states situations where stoning people to death is acceptable, yet they themselves see that as immoral.
not believing in the morals from the source of your morals is a rather large hair to split.
neverfearchrisishere 1 month ago
No god = chaos & slaughter????
That's called a FALSE DICHOTOMY.
"If a Communist crucifies a priest to prove to him the nonexistence of God, one cannot reasonably say that it was the Communism but not the atheism of the torturer that was responsible for the crime. "
Actually it was the MURDERER who was responsible.
It saddens & appals me to think that there are still people around who agree with the type of thinking displayed in this video.
paspax 2 years ago
Well, see, the thing here is he's quite valiantly asserting that people are incapable of their own thought process, that they must be guided by something. It's the major personal flaw that inevitably leads to the condition known as "religious".
crueltyinc 2 years ago
The claim "we need morale guidance" is plain idiotic... Whos guidance? What guidance? and by whos standards? Let each one live according to themselves within the laws of that nation. STOP forcing and killing in the name of your "GOD". "My God is the only true God and all others are false" is outdated and completely false. People with deep religious convictions, who feel the need to convert or kill, are more dangerous than any other people in the world.
hdcoastie 2 years ago
But the claim here that these people suffered DUE to atheism, rather it was the brutal PEOPLE who did these things. Like saying an Atheist murderer is a murderer because of his lack of God, no! it was that fact he was a murderer that caused it. The Pope during WW2 turned a blind eye to Hitler, and genocide after genocide was caused in the name of religion. The lack of a faith in a God does not turn one into a monster. Can't people just end the prostilyzing and live happily with their OWN VIEWS?
hdcoastie 2 years ago
I think the problem is when a government tries to enforce it's will, atheist or religious, on the people. Nothing good can come from that. If a person is born again or finds true reason that is that person. As long as the same person can express him or herself in their home and community there should be no problems. I am an Atheist, my wife is a christian... we have agreed to disagree. I think people need to take them selves less seriously. we should all just live a little.
reyk47 2 years ago
"Evil is disobeying God"? Why bother to make an argument/video when you can just assert your claim is true by definition?
Here's just one example (out of many) of how absurd this is:
Had I been with Moses when the events of Numbers 15:32-36 occurred, and had I REFUSED to participate in stoning to death a man found in the wilderness for the (Jewish) crime of gathering sticks on the Sabbath, I would've been disobeying God, hence committing evil according to you.
VeryEvilPettingZoo 3 years ago
Secular utopians who commit evil (Communists/Jacobins) do so in the name of (motivation/purpose) their revolutionary/utopian vision - not their atheism. Compare that with the Crusades or current Islamic terrorism, where the purpose and motivation is directly religious. If there's ever an atheist suicide bomber, you know his last words won't be "THERE IS NO GOD!!" Whatever his (insane) purpose and motivation might be, it won't be his lack of belief in God.
VeryEvilPettingZoo 3 years ago
These Jacobin's had the exact same ideas as the new atheism movement (although not that new it's just been woke up from a deep sleep) anyway why do you Deny it, you are talking the same thing these Jacs did? watch?v=kGGkg7mGVDc
Do you think that this jacs woke up one day and said lets kill all those Christy's? No they tried the reasoning first and those christys just wouldn't listen to reasoning! You atheist today are waking that same line!
jesusrules2012 3 years ago
"Jacobin's had the exact same ideas as the new atheism movement." Really? I wasn't aware that the so-called New Atheists (with whom I often differ) have or seek political control following a complete social and political revolution, much less advocate murdering all who oppose this non-existent revolution.
Why do mainstream Christians deny that they have the exact same ideas as the Islamic terrorists (you're clearly all Abrahamic monotheists). Why deny it? (See how that works?)
VeryEvilPettingZoo 3 years ago
The video you referenced is garbage.
My denial? I thought I made my position clear. To repeat myself:
1) I'm a strong atheist who agrees with almost everything in this video.
2) "Remove God, and humanity and its propensity to evil still remains; secular utopians are just as dangerous as religious zealots." I fully agree with that.
3) Secular utopians who commit evil (Communists/Jacobins) do so in the name of (motivation/purpose) their revolutionary/utopian vision - not their atheism.
VeryEvilPettingZoo 3 years ago
Evil is disobeying God.
Atheism is evil by definition.
bigwhammyRocks 3 years ago
There is no god.
Your bible book is a fairy story.
Atheism is reason & logic.
Religion is the greatest evil ever created by man.
paspax 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@bigwhammyRocks Then you are brain-washed.
260191894 1 year ago
@bigwhammyRocks By your definition, god is evil to me, not to you, you and christianity do not own the definition of evil.
Imhornydadcomeinside 1 year ago
I'm a strong atheist who agrees with almost everything in this video. But your description section's comments suggest to me that you missed the meaning of your own video. I see its thesis being "Remove God, and humanity and its propensity to evil still remains; secular utopians are just as dangerous as religious zealots." I fully agree with that. You seem to think it argues that many atheists kill in the name of atheism. It doesn't, and they don't.
VeryEvilPettingZoo 3 years ago
I all so see it this way Man just loves to kill with God or gods or with out. We will all ways find a way and a reson to kill.
thanks for your post
CIRELUX 2 years ago
Sadly, I think you're right.
VeryEvilPettingZoo 2 years ago
You say "to say or imply that no atheist kills in the name of atheism is blatant special pleading." Though technically correct, because of the word "no" (anything is possible for some weirdo), given what I assume you mean, it's false. It's not special pleading. Why? Because killing "in the name of" is about MOTIVATION. The lack of belief in God does not motivate killing. You could argue it removes a check on killing (I'd disagree), but that's not the same as motivating killing.
VeryEvilPettingZoo 3 years ago
Consider Stalin's crimes. The Ukraine's mass starvation was to force the people onto the collectivist farms. The motivation was state control via communist ideology. His purges within the Party were to secure his own power. Atheism was irrelevant. Stalin's religious repression was not motivated by atheism, but by religion's threat to the base of his power, as it competes with communist ideology for mens' hearts. (Tyrants must co-opt, neutralize, or destroy religion; they can't ignore it.)
VeryEvilPettingZoo 3 years ago
Your description section's comment "if a Communist crucifies a priest to prove to him the nonexistence of God" is odd for several reasons. First, it's not in evidence here. Also, it wouldn't be expected to disprove God to the priest. Finally, atheists aren't motivated by proving things to the dead - and given this, it's clear that atheism couldn't be the motivation even if this happened (more likely it would be ordinary sadism).
VeryEvilPettingZoo 3 years ago
Wow I'm sorry you are afflicted with such as bad case of atheism.
The Jacobins explicitly killed in the name of atheism. The "cult of reason" it sounds exactly like tall tales Dawkins "brights".
The track records in history are quite clear. Atheism is a deadly philosophy - period.
bigwhammyRocks 3 years ago
Saying I'm "afflicted with such as bad case of atheism" was uncalled for. I'm capable of making nasty little comments too, but you'll notice I've been direct, not insulting.
Your claim "Atheism is a deadly philosophy - period" is wrong on its face, as atheism isn't a philosophy; it's a single epistemic position. There are fuller philosophies that are atheistic, like Secular Humanism/Enlightenment, Objectivism, Nihilism, Communism, and Jacobins, yet they differ greatly from one another.
VeryEvilPettingZoo 3 years ago
Cognitive scientist Stephen Pinker on the Edge website has an essay showing the long-term decline of violence in the human species, despite, or perhaps because of the decline in religiosity.
advancedatheist 3 years ago
I guess the Bush Administration hired a bunch of atheists to capture, imprison, torture and murder all those theistic Muslim creationists done in the name of the American people.
advancedatheist 3 years ago
Oh the irony...religion is responsible for the majority of bigotry/violence in the world today.The idea that humankind is so innately weak & evil that people must be threatened into behaving themselves by a mythological deity's punishment is absurd.Children as young as 4 or 5 have a basic awareness of the difference between good and bad and by 6 or 7 are already developing a moral conscience and the more sophisticated notion of 'ethics'.Our brains have evolved to allow us to choose how to behave
sleepypoodle 3 years ago
wow lie much? N Korea is atheist.
bigwhammyRocks 3 years ago
Curious how christians conveniently forget the biblical morality which condones slavery,forces a woman to marry her rapist, executes money lenders (watch out anyone who works in finance)and supports bigotry! You can keep your pic'n'mix religion with all it's hypocricy.
sleepypoodle 3 years ago
But you don't live in a secular universe. You will face judgment by your creator one day. You know... the one you deny? Yeah HIM. Good Luck with that!
bigwhammyRocks 3 years ago
If you view by social standards, I have lead quite a decent life with being a tax paying, kind and caring member of the society and I have saved a life twice already and helped other members of the society. If I died tomorrow, according to you, I would get sentenced to eternal torture? If you or your god sees this as just, I prefer to be a martyr then and take my chances on eternal torture... Who knows if I'll end up enjoying it (sarcasm warning)
Pharmaecopia1 2 years ago
I am being judge every day, by the man in the mirror, myself. I am the one to live with the choices i make, and i cant just wish for forgiveness in the confesionroom, or pray.. Forgiveness can only be aquired from the person i have done the immoral deed at..
Thank god i live in a secular society..
ikanaide 3 years ago
Yea thats right..Stalin killed Christains and burned down churches, not because the Christians didn't want to think like him, Oh for petes sake not that! Perhaps it was because he just had a bad day? Yea that is a good logical reason Mr. Idoit Dawkins isn't it?
jesusrules2012 3 years ago 2
If we didn't have people who belive in god, we wouldn't have armies that have killed millions and millions of people.
flarkfucky 3 years ago
Sorry most people in history were killed by atheists. Stalin+ Mao+ Pol Pot --so you failed
Hitler was into the occult-- not Christian.
So the majority of all mass murderes were by atheists with pagan occultist right behind them.
bigwhammyRocks 3 years ago
Im an atheist and I havent killed/stole/rape/ect . Why I dont do those things? :o You say I have no morals so why arent I killing everybody I see?
I have non-existing morals ^_^ cool
kais3rz3r0 3 years ago
If we got our morals from religion...shit we'd be screwed. We evolved morals. If we used religion, then we'd be stoning people to death. Rational thought shall win, secular societies is what we live in. Theocratic societies are horrible look at the witch trials. I dont need something to tell me how to live my life...
Slayer34214 3 years ago
Also to add to what Slayer said Jesus endorses the old testement multiple times in the new testemet down to the i's and t's (Matthew 5:18-19). There are also about 4 or 5 more instances but this is the main one that showcases Jesus's dedication to the OT, known at that time as the scriptures and the laws of the prophets. Modern +'s are more humanist then +'s in fact most are christians by default. They rarely go to church and they just trust that theres some guy in the heavens named God.
DirkXXVI 3 years ago
You have no understanding of the OT to comment on it. Just the same canards that were debunked centuries ago.
bigwhammyRocks 3 years ago
well i get my morals from religion.. and yes i stone people to death all the time. = D OBVIOUSLY !! lol @ "we evolved morals". Do you have a moral tree of evolution that you could point to? I'd be interested to see it. and... I don't get it why would you have a problem with killing if the strong survive? Isn't that good for our gene pool?
grahburns777 3 years ago
Did you know that all prominent Christians including Hovind and Cameron know that what they preach is a lie! They have no evidence for their claims and use straw-man tactics to achieve their goal of total human mind control. The Cold War is far from over, wake up and fight against these communistic Christians, before it's too late! Think while you still can, and fight the fight for humanity, not mysticism!
warrenstargazer 3 years ago
This is so fucking stupid. Do theists actually buy this pile of shit?
pallevader 3 years ago
You're arguments are totally wrong, off-base, and unfair. I do NOT "look to science" to tell me how to live my life - that's ludicrious. I get my morals and values THE SAME WAY YOU AND EVERYBODY ELSE GETS THEIRS - from my parents and the society that I live in, which has rules, laws, regulations, and standards of conduct for decent human behavior. Darwinism is not a form of moral behavior, you're twisting words and you appear quite foolish in doing so.
RationalByChoice 3 years ago 2
dkreichen1968, clearly you haven't a clue of what you're talking about. THere's nothing wrong with obtaining knowledge. It saves you from looking goofy.
NephilimFree 3 years ago
"Biblical Christianity teaches that man made religion"
"Religion" made man.
"including Romans Catholicism, can't produce a people whose morality matches the Biblical ethic"
How could mortals be God?
"Only a miraculous work of the Holy Spirit can do that"
But it doesn't. It (Jesus Christ) does not make us God. But only God can make us worth allowing into eternal life.
NephilimFree 3 years ago
"Morality has little to do with ethics."
It has everything to do with ethics.
"Morality is what is"
No, morality is a set of standards for behavior based upon worldview.
"ethics is what should to be"
No, ethics is a set of corporate standards for the behavior of people as a culture.
NephilimFree 3 years ago
The Jacobins were collectivists, as were Stalin, Hitler and the rest of the examples commonly thrown at Athiests. The reason why collectivist and religious autocracy lead to the same ends (bloody massacre) is because they both hold that individuals can be sacrificed for the "greater good". If you assume that people are sacrificial animals any # of bodies is acceptable. Objectivism rejects both secular and religious collectivism. Once you reject god, an objectivist morality is waiting.
bakukenshin 3 years ago
What's wrong with people making their own morality. Humans are hardwired for empathy and altruism. Whether you have religion or not a healthy human being will want to treat others as they would like to be treated. Everything else is just social learning.
justsomebody13 3 years ago
Why is this video idiotic?
Christianity is a belief. Atheism is NOT a belief, not a philosophy, not a worldview but instead an opinion on religion - it does not tell you what the person's philosophy is.
Imagine that you're soooo brainwashed into Taoism that you can only see the world as Tao and a-Tao. You point to the Nazis, Torquemada, Stalin and Mao and say "See what a-Tao accomplishes!"
You group people by BELIEF not DISBELIEF!
templarart 3 years ago
When we view the atrocities of the nazis.. do we say "Adolph Hitler rejected communism and persecuted communists - see what becomes of a philosophy of a-communism." Do we call Adolph Hitler a Nazi or an a-communist? An anticommunist American would say: "Hitler was right about communists but his methods were wrong and evil." Same as most atheists would say about religion and Lenin. Would it make ANY sense to group all anticommunists together with Hitler as having the same worldview? RIDICULOUS!
templarart 3 years ago
All atheists share the belief that there is no God. Since the existence of a God, who defines an ethic, is the only basis upon which an ethic can be built, any atheist, especially those in political power can only be expected to do as they please. Richard Dawkins writing his own 10 commandments is a case in point. He has become his own god, creating his own ethic. Hitler and Stalin did the exact same thing. There can be no basis for an ethic apart from the existence of God.
dkreichen1968 3 years ago
That makes no sense as...
1) Ethics and morality have nothing to do with gods. Wolves, ants, baboons, dogs all exhibit morality which is nothing more than the evolved ability to interact in a social structure.
2) Civilizations based on religion demonstrate poor morality: Iran, Aztecs, Catholic Spain etc.
3) Christians live by secular NOT Biblical morality as they do not kill unbelieving family members, are against slavery, own property, are actually against genocidal slaughters etc.
templarart 3 years ago
1) Morality has little to do with ethics. Morality is what is, ethics is what should to be. The Bible says that unjust hatred is murder, and lust is adultry. Does anyone live up to that standard?
2) Biblical Christianity teaches that man made religion, including Romans Catholicism, can't produce a people whose morality matches the Biblical ethic. Only a miraculous work of the Holy Spirit can do that.
3) This third point shows a basic misunderstanding of the concepts of law and gospel.
dkreichen1968 3 years ago
The law condemns us. The gospel sets us free. The law says that we deserve God's wrath. The gospel says that if we will stop trusting in our own rigtheousness, and trust in Christ, then Christ took God's wrath on Himself for our failure.
dkreichen1968 3 years ago
Don't ever even think that I would argue for cultural Christianity. Most of it has little to do with the Bible, but your third comment shows a basic misunderstanding of what the Bible teaches.
dkreichen1968 3 years ago
Christians can NEVER face this. The God of the OT is a vicious, brutal, mass-murdering, immoral psychopath! Our morals come from better places like Greece, Rome and the Enlightenment. If you lived by Biblical laws - you would stone a nonvirgin bride to DEATH on her father's doorstep and execute Sabbath breakers. I CRINGE that Christians actually can delude themselves into seeing these disgusting, immoral laws as moral.
templarart 3 years ago
1) I'm willing to bet that I have a much more complete understanding of the Bible than you do. I've read 3 Bibles, attended 2 years in Bible College and read a room full of supporting literature.
2) The Bible at its basis is IMmoral. Is it moral to murder your brother if he tries to talk you into another religion? Deut 13:6-10 says that you MUST do it! Jesus supported and NEVER cancelled the Deuteronomical code. Paul eliminated Kosher law but that's it.
templarart 3 years ago
You still don't get it! Under God's justice all sins deserve not just a death sentence, but the eternal punishment of hell. Everyone is guilty, everyone deserves hell. Our only hope is that God has provided a substitute in our place. The law was never given as a means of gaining right standing with God, but as a "schoolmaster" to show us our need for a redeemer. That is taught throughout both Testaments. Given the state of modern Christianity, Bible College means little.
dkreichen1968 3 years ago
I would also have to point out that you somehow think that you have the right to call God's law immoral. Who do you think you are to talk back to God?
dkreichen1968 3 years ago
Apart from the existence of God terms like good and evil, right and wrong, moral and immoral have no real meaning. What may be right and moral for one group of people may not be for another.
dkreichen1968 3 years ago
I am a human being. I exist, which places me in a position of power infinitely superior to the impotence of non-existence. Therefore I am infinitely more powerful than God and I can speak with impunity. The very concept of God is evil. The morality of God is evil. Christianity, Islam, Judaism are at their hearts evil. I wish people would realize this and abandon blind faith in favor of reason as the arbiter of their consciences.
bakukenshin 3 years ago
You've JUST said might makes right. If Satan had the throne of heaven would you be worshiping him and shaming those who would question his many acts of evil? You've completely reversed yourself! Instead of God being the perfect morality, he is now an arbitrary tyrant that you dare not question. How do you possibly get morality out of that? Should we follow this morality? My kid brings me a cookie I didn't ask for so I kill him like Jehovah does to Aaron's children. Is this good morality?
templarart 3 years ago
God's law is not arbitrary, it is based on His very nature. Your morality, if you get it from society, is arbitrary. Are we talking about Hindu society where group sex and beastiality is depicted in temple art and widows are burned to death on their husbands funeral pyre. Are we talking about ancient Greek culture where male homosexuality was prefered because women were believed to be stupid. That is why I say that if you take God out there is no right and wrong, no good or evil.
dkreichen1968 3 years ago
Jehovah's laws are the laws of a brutal, sadistic dictator more in line with a Kim Jong Il or Sadaam Hussein then Abraham Lincoln. In fact even worse! If one of Il's or Hussein's generals did something wrong I doubt that the dictator would murder 70,000 of his innocent troops but instead punish the General directly. Jehovah isn't even as moral as our world's worst dictators and YET you claim we get our morals from him!?!? RIDICULOUS!
templarart 3 years ago
Where do you get your morals from? Are there any innocent people? Were the 70,000 troops innocent? Are you innocent? Abraham Lincolin wanted to send the freed slaves back to Africa to starve. No Christian slaveholder would ever do that. Who are you to judge one better than the other? cont...
dkreichen1968 3 years ago
"Therefore you are without excuse, O man, whoever you are who judge. For in that which you judge another, you condemn yourself. For you who judge practice the same things. We know that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who practice such things." Romans 2:1,2
dkreichen1968 3 years ago
"Under God's justice all sins deserve not just a death sentence, "
Which shows how immoral and unjust this demon-god is. If my child disobeys me, I punish him in an appropriate manner. If he steals a cookie and I reach for a butcher knife - I'm a rabid psychopath.
"Our only hope is that God has provided a substitute in our place."
So he sacrifices himself to himself in order to appease himself over a crazy rule he (with foreknowledge) made. That might make sense on Bizarro world.
templarart 3 years ago
"The law was never given as a means of gaining right"
The laws of Moses were, at their basis, primitive, brutal and immoral. You've stated that we get morality from the Bible - well how many visiting Mormons have you murdered and dragged into your basement? If you find a Christian with a Hindu girl - do you thrust a spear through both of them to keep Jehovah's "just" plague from killing thousands. If you see a store open on Saturday, do you pull out the shopkeeper and stone him?
templarart 3 years ago
So, what you are saying is that the God of the Bible shouldn't be taken seriously because the God of the Bible demanded to be taken seriously and very few people take Him seriously anymore.
Since you have rejected the Bible as a standard of morality, on what do you base your morality?
dkreichen1968 3 years ago
In Deuteronomy, in the passages that talk about taking people outside of the city and stoning them, the phrase "you shall put away the evil from the midst of you" appears repeatedly. Where is that phrase repeated in the New Testament, and in what context?
dkreichen1968 3 years ago
"you shall put away the evil" is pointless because:
1) Jesus was a garden variety conman/cult leader - not that much different from David Koresh or Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh. I really don't care what he had to say.
2) People suffered under these horrible, immoral, evil laws for 1000s of years. WHO CARES what some cult leader says some 1000s of years after the laws were written? If the laws were evil, then YHWH was evil for writing them. If not then you should follow them and end up in jail.
templarart 3 years ago
Don't worry about dodging my direct question - every Christian dodges it instead of answering it.
The answer you should've given is "No, of course I wouldn't do anything like you described. That behavior is immoral, savage and absolutely wrong! How could ANYONE follow a god that is so immoral that it would actually demand this kind of unconscionable behavior from its people?!"
I get my morality from society - just like you do. You don't follow Bible morality or else you'd be in prison.
templarart 3 years ago
Have you ever heard of the concept of separation of church and state? Is a Mormon worthy of death? Yes! Is a professing Christian who purposely hooks up with a Hindu worthy of death? Yes! Does the church have the right, during this dispensation, to execute the death penalty? No! It is separate and distinct from the state, which is why I brought up the fact that the phrase "you shall put away the evil from the midst of you" is repeated in the New Testament. (1 Corinthians 5:13)
dkreichen1968 3 years ago
Does the church have the authority to judge outside of its ranks? No! (1 Corinthians 5:12) And no, I don't get my morality from society, or I would believe that fornication, homosexuallity, and abortion are okay. I don't even accept the idea that all forms of slavery are immoral. If it was the Bible would say so! That doesn't mean that I think John Newton was wrong about Black African slavery!
dkreichen1968 3 years ago
No Joke - I am taking both your comments and using them to prove how evil and corrupting religion is. Your immoral statements come directly from the immorality of an ancient book of mythology called the Bible. Luckily you live in the USA which was founded on secularism and FAR more moral than any man-made god.
templarart 3 years ago
You have a man made god. I don't! Your god has the screen name templarart. That is why you can make up your own morality and call anyone who doesn't believe in your made up morality immoral. God is my judge, I must answer to Him! The scarry thing is that you will also have to answer to Him. Are you prepared?
dkreichen1968 3 years ago
Wrong! Atheists BELIEVE there is no God. It is an article of faith because you can not prove there is no God. You BELIEVE in atheism don't you? LOL
bigwhammyRocks 3 years ago
1) A god is a powerful, worshiped, supernatural being. Since it is worshiped, it has a religion.
2) A creator without a religion is NOT a god and irrelevant to our lives.
3) I can prove beyond reasonable doubt to any neutral observer that Jehovah could not possibly exist.
4) You don't believe in centaurs. Why? Have you disproven their existence? No, you simply accept the more likely conclusion that they do NOT exist over the far less likely option that they do. Same with gods.
templarart 3 years ago
If God is dead all things are permissible! Atheists murder, rape, and steal pricisely because there is nothing to stop them from murdering, raping, and stealing. They have become gods in their own universe.
dkreichen1968 3 years ago
I am an atheist and have never done any of these things. You are a liar.
crumbinator 3 years ago
"It amounts to saying that atheism is by definition a belief-system"
You really have to get it into your head that atheism does not try to replace theistic systems of believe AT ALL.
What you believe appears ridiculous and childish to me and I can't bring myself to believe it also.
The atheist's lack of belief is JUST THAT - the NON-belief in some weird and divisive fairytales. It goes no further than this. It does not go on to demand sacrifice, murder, genocide...
Grundibular 3 years ago
That's true...some do hate. My point is that it's not because of atheism, but because of their own twisted philisophy.
mtambors 3 years ago
While it is possible that there have been atheists that have killed based on other's beliefs. It is hard to say that this was done in the name of atheism. Atheism is defined as a lack of belief.
How do you know that communists killed priests to show them there is no god?
As far as Nazism, Hitler's beliefs are irrelevant. His followers were Christian.
I agree with the final point. Really it's not religion per se that is the problem, but the DOGMA that usually corresponds...
mtambors 3 years ago
If everybody was agnostic about their beliefs, then that is what I think would really make the difference.
mtambors 3 years ago
I recently saw a video by a Youtube militant atheist. In the comments were numerous people who stated with quite the gusto "To hell with Christians" "Kill all the Christians" "kill all religious people!" ... but yeah, youre right, nobody would think that way "in the name of atheism"
loveualatte 3 years ago