Love the sinner, hate the sin. Atheism and homosexuality.

[ErbobTheRandomness]

I can summarize the bible to just 2 words! Everyone died.

[AtheistCD]

I really don't agree those two things are sins, but i agree with love the sinner hate the sin. -Like

[GodLovesTheSinner]

I fall short of God's glory every single day, but by His Grace, I am forgiven. Jesus Christ is my savior and my faith is rooted on simple miracles I witness daily.

I love my family & friends and God is good all the time!!!

[GodLovesTheSinner]

He has CANCELLED 'all our sins' and has given us the FREE GIFT of Eternal Life!!

[GodLovesTheSinner]

if you catch you child smoking cigerrettes after telling them not to, would you still love them but, hate what they are doing? How about if you child killed another ones child? would you hate what they did but still love them! yes, God still loves all of us. sin was delt with on the cross, all we have to do is ACCEPT His love!

[GodLovesTheSinner]

if you catch you child smoking cigerrettes after telling them not to, would you still love them but, hate what they are doing? How about if you child killed another ones child? would you hate what they did but still love them! yes, God still loves all of us. sin was delt with on the cross, all we have to do is exept His love!

[Subfightr]

@GodLovesTheSinner Thank you for your comments. The things you list are things that one decides to do, smoke, kill. On the topic of homosexuality It seems to be like blaming a child because they were born with blue eyes. I understand your point behind the analogy though. God loves all of us, ok, but I don't see how that undoes his hate filled commandments toward them, killing them as he orders does not strike me as a loving act, I'm sure it does not to you either.

[GodLovesTheSinner]

@Subfightr in the New Testament, we are under Grace! Old testament was showing us that we can't save ourselves, New Testament shows that we have a saviour that paid for our sins on the cross!

[Subfightr]

@GodLovesTheSinner Isn't the savior the same guy who made the kill em comment in the first place? "never mind what I said before people, I just had myself offed so it's ok now"

[GodLovesTheSinner]

@Subfightr Jesus came not to destroy but to save. that's why He is the saviour. :)

[Subfightr]

@GodLovesTheSinner Many people say that but what am I to make of his own words? Matthew 10:34-36 "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household."

[GodLovesTheSinner]

@Subfightr that's because many will hate people like us including family, like islam, because of Jesus! those who live for satan hates Jesus because He is the light and the light exposes those who live in darkness. and thoses who live in darkness love evil.

[MuSiCiAnMaTtHeW]

@Subfightr in the bible it has rules at which God wants you to live by..if you dont live by them you have to pay a price..i will compare you to a child if i had a son who was doing a homosexual act on a guy I would beat the shit out of him..why because i think having sex before marriage is morally wrong..not by bible standards by my own..but while my son asked me to forgive him i would eventually forgive his act...then he can go on with his homo life..God will forgive just gotta ask.

[GodLovesTheSinner]

Romans 5:8

[kittycatcurse]

Damn christians trying to get people to hate.Thats not very christian of you,now is it?My friend who is very christian....has studied so much about her religion,and nowhere does it say homosexuality is a sin.If christianity was non-existant,the world would be a much better place.

[Subfightr]

@kittycatcurse You may be correct, I'm not positive it directly calls it a sin. The bible calls homosexuality an abomination.On multiple occasions, as stated in the video, as well as the punishment being death. If that does not inspire disgust and hate for homosexuality I don't know what will.

[Dante3210]

@Subfightr

You're right that homosexuality is punishable by death, however every sin is punishable by death according to the bible. That's the reason we all die. The wages of sin is death. Only through death will we reach eternal life.

[Spyderschwinky]

@Dante3210 so you are saying people die because of their sins? my lutheran bible says that jesus died for us & our sins, therefore we don't need to die because of them.

also, you are forgetting that the bible commands you to kill gays, not to wait until they die naturally.

you really should do some more research...i really dont understand why christians are too lazy to read their own scripture properly, are they afraid of becoming atheists?

[Dante3210]

@Spyderschwinky

Yes, we die because of sin. Before there was sin we were not meant to die. Once Adam and Eve disobeyed God, death became applied to us. However through the death of Jesus, we are given eternal life after death if we are able to repent of our sins.

And where does the bible command me to kill gays?

[Spyderschwinky]

@Dante3210 where did you find that in the bible? people don't die because of the disobedience of adam and eve, no, it's the other way around: they are BORN with sin and need to accept jesus as their savior. also, there is still the pain of birth for women.

Leviticus 20:13 "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them." thats right: not "die" but "PUT to death" - murder.

[Dante3210]

@Spyderschwinky

So you're telling me people are born BECAUSE Adam and Eve sinned but don't die because they sinned?? That makes no sense. Where did I find it in the bible? The first book called Genesis. If people were meant to die before Adam and Eve sinned then what was the point of God even creating man kind? Why does it say that in revelation the LAST ENEMY to be destroyed will be death?

[Dante3210]

@Spyderschwinky

Think about what you're saying here and you'll realize how wrong it is. To say that we are born sinners is to say that Jesus himself was born a sinner. FALSE!

To say that we don't die because of sin is to say that Jesus didn't die for our sins. FALSE!

Jesus died for out sins but that doesn't mean we don't die BECAUSE of sin. There's a difference between dying BECAUSE of sin and dying FOR sins. We're not dying for sins. We're dying because of them.

[Dante3210]

@Spyderschwinky

As for your Leviticus verse. The bible also tells us to love one another.. The laws of the Old Testament vs. The New Testament is one of great debate and one I don't wish to get into at the moment. But for the most part, I believe the laws in the old testament were reconfigured once God (Jesus) came to earth in human form.

[Spyderschwinky]

@Dante3210 you think so? lets see what jesus thinks: “Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place.” (Matthew 5:17) “Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law” (John7:19)

you cant just pick the cute parts and abandon the rest.

[Dante3210]

@Spyderschwinky

I'm honestly getting the sense that you must think i'm stupid or something. I am completely aware of both those verses you posted. If you notice, I didn't say anything about God getting rid of the law.

I said reconfigured.

And I also never said anything about "picking cute parts" so I don't even know why you chose to include that in your reply.

[Dante3210]

@Spyderschwinky

Here's something to ponder. You said that Jesus died for our sins and tried to use that to counter my previous argument correct?

Why aren't you applying that same way of thinking to this situation? If we're meant to follow the sacrificial laws of offering dead animal carcasses to God for our sins, then how does it make sense that Jesus died for our sins if the law is still telling us that we have to sacrifice dead animals for our sins?

[Spyderschwinky]

@Dante3210 all i am doing is quoting the bible. if what i am quoting doesn't make sense to you, it's not my way of thinking that does not make any sense, but the bible itself. even you as a christian finally have understood that the bible contradicts itself in every way possible. congrats, that's the first step to atheism :)

i really hope you carry on with the bible study by yourself ;) free thinking is not illegal, you know?

[Dante3210]

@Spyderschwinky

No you're confused and delusional. I just told you why it doesn't contradict the bible and this is the problem I have with a lot of athiests.

You just said "I'm just quoting the bible". That's what a majority of athiests do. They QUOTE the bible and try not to understand anything about it. They just take it word for word and try to make an argument out of it.

[Dante3210]

@Spyderschwinky

I find it funny that people are willing to study science and look at it from different perspectives but when it comes to the bible they'll look at it like it's one dimensional and go OHHHH CONTRADICTION!!!

When you read a book or watch a movie do you look at it from one perspective? If so, you must be a pretty limited individual.

[Spyderschwinky]

@Dante3210 hm false assuptions and insults, that's the way to go!

but let me be clear about one thing: i was raised as a christian. my family still is. i am not. why? because i seem to be the only person in my family that actually read it. in my time as a christian i saw it as the holy work of god, so NO, i did not read it from only one persepective. and i think it would be healthy for a christian to read it from a different p. too, if THEY dont want to be called a "pretty limited individual" :)

[Dante3210]

@Spyderschwinky

How is calling someone confused and delusional an insult? If you don't mind me asking how old are you? Cause that's definitely not an insult.

And you're just getting ridiculous now. If you read the bible and thought of things from different perspectives you wouldn't be sitting here saying it's a contradiction when I clearly explained to you why it wouldn't be.

[Spyderschwinky]

@Dante3210 what is it about my age that would change anything? if I'm very young, would you say i am too stupid to think rationally? it i'm very old, would you say that I'm too confused to think rationally? well then...let's go with 35.

also, i don't recall you calling me confused in your comments, no, "you must be a pretty limited individual." is what you said.

i explained to you why your explaination is faulty, so where is the problem in me disagreeing with you?

[Dante3210]

@Spyderschwinky @Spyderschwinky

What???? I called you confused right at the beginning of my post so I dont see how you missed that. And no, i asked about your age because younger people consider things insults that are actually in no way an insult.

And I never called you a limited individual either. I said you must be a limited individual if you look at things from one perspective. Get the facts straight.

And how was my explanation faulty?

[Spyderschwinky]

@Dante3210 sorry must have skipped that. but that was not what i meant, i meant the limited indiviual thing, and if you think that makes me an immature person to see that as an insult, then yes, i am an immature person. does that make you feel better? that the atheist may be younger than you? does that many that any of my arguments are less valid? if you say so.

[Dante3210]

@Spyderschwinky

Make me feel better? I don't understand what you're trying to say. You being younger than me doesnt make me feel more or less better about my self. And no your arguments arent less valid.

Once again, I never called you a limited individual so stop thinking that.

[Dante3210]

@Spyderschwinky

If you wanna disagree with me then fine, but I don't see how my explanation was faulty.

[Spyderschwinky]

@Dante3210 how about you read my comment on your explanation once more? just a thought

[Dante3210]

@Spyderschwinky

And let me be clear about one thing also. It's one thing to read the bible and another thing to actually understand it. Obviously you think you have an understanding of it because you're trying to tell me things that i've been able to refute. A lot of athiests say the same thing you're saying.

"I read the bible". But did you understand it??? Nope. But you decided to give up and become an athiest. Makes sense to me!

[Spyderschwinky]

@Dante3210 that's the thing, Dante, how can you know that YOU understood it? and why would an all loving god communicate with us through sth that can be understood in so many different ways? if he can talk to us in all kinds of ways, why write a book with tons of different translations, interpretations, and so on? you need to start thinking about this stuff instead of insulting other people that actually questioned everything instead of just being lazy and believing blindly.

[Dante3210]

@Spyderschwinky

I knew you'd eventually say that as they all do. "How do you know you understand it".

I never said I understand the bible completely. I'm offering my beliefs to you. Whether you wish to believe it or not is up to you, but as it stands, this is what I believe concerning this particular situation in the bible. That doesn't mean I'm completely right. it means that I hope to be right and until it's revealed to me otherwise that i'm wrong I'll stick to my belief.

[Spyderschwinky]

@Dante3210 yeah great you just ignored like 70% of my comment and just answered what you wanted to answer. it's okay. we have a disagreement. let's leave it with that. I'm still an atheist, you're still a theist, no harm done.

[Dante3210]

@Spyderschwinky

Please tell me what I ignored and Ill answer every bit of it again.

[Dante3210]

@Spyderschwinky

Okay i just re-read your reply and I seriously don't see what I missed. I told you why it wasn't faulty yet you still sit here and act like I ignored your comment when i didn't.

Okay here. It's Jesus intention to abolish the law as a requirment? Is that okay with you?

Tell me how that's a contradiction. It's not. Abolishing the law as a requirment doesn't mean it no longer it exists. It just means it's no longer required.

[Dante3210]

@Spyderschwinky

But since you want to go your own way now I'll leave you alone.

On to the next person.

[Dante3210]

@Spyderschwinky

I need to start thinking about this stuff? Who are you to tell me I need to start thinking about that? I already have and think about it all the time. What I'm trying to get you to understand is that you're just being unfair by calling things contradictions without first looking for explanations and finding a solution much like science does.

I don't believe blindly and I havent insulted you at all in this conversation.

[Dante3210]

@Spyderschwinky

I believe people are looking at the law of moses the wrong way. My belief is that Jesus did exactly what he said. He did not come to abolish the law. He came to fulfill it. But I think the thing people are missing is the idea of [Cause and Effect]. Jesus's CAUSE was to fulfill the law, but by fulfilling it he in EFFECT removed it as a requirement for Christians. This does not contradict Gods word.

[Dante3210]

@Spyderschwinky

Just because Jesus "removed" the law doesn't mean that that was his intention. It was just the after effect of him fulfilling the law because once he fulfilled it the law would no longer be needed, thus it's removed as a requirement.

Jesus came not to abolish but to fulfill and that's exactly what he did.

[Spyderschwinky]

@Dante3210 omg are u serious? you JUST made the progress to regonize that it didn't make any sense!

"because Jesus "removed" the law doesn't mean that that was his intention. It was just the after effect of him fulfilling the law " does that mean jesus did something without the intention to do so? in what way does that qualify him as the son of god if he does the exact opposite of what he was trying to do?

you're not stupid, i can tell, so why are you holding on to sth so irrational?

[Dante3210]

@Spyderschwinky

I don't think you understand what i'm saying. Jesus didn't abolish the law at all, he removed it as a requirement. When Jesus told us to think not that he came to abolish the law but to fulfill it he was telling us not to look at him as someone who came to destroy the law of moses because HE DIDN'T.

He wants us to look at him as someone who led a sinless life and brought us salvation. The law still exists, it's just no longer required.

[Spyderschwinky]

@Dante3210 abolishing and removing...i don't know about you but for me those two words have a pretty similar meaning...

since you obviously want to stay christian no matter how absurd it gets i recommend you not to read the bible, especially not the Old Testament and none of Paul's letters. they are very effective when it comes to converting people, or at least they managed to convert a hard core christian like me into an atheist.

[Dante3210]

@Spyderschwinky

Abolish, remove, whatever you wanna call it. My statement still stands that I believe it's no longer required.

And you were converted into an athiest because you were too lazy to try to understand the bible.

[Dante3210]

@Spyderschwinky

When I said Jesus's intention wasn't to remove the law I wasn't saying that that wasn't what he wanted to happen. I'm saying that that wasn't his focus. His focus was to live a sinless life and by doing that he removed the law because HE was the ultimate sacrifice. Before that we had to sacrifice animals.

[Dante3210]

@Spyderschwinky

If you cook a chicken for someone your intention (cause) is to feed them right?

But what if that person gets sick? Does that mean you came to make them sick? Of course not. They only got sick because something was wrong with the chicken, but your CAUSE was to feed them they just happened to be EFFECTED by sickness because they ate the chicken.

[MaxHam]

@kittycatcurse

hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha man you're dumb GOOD DAY MA'AM!

"How do you write for women so well?" "Well, I just think of a man and take away all reason and credibility!"

[LordMalice6d9]

Love the sinner hate the sin, is by far one of the most cynical sayings in history, its nothing more than polite way for a Christian to hate someone.

[ArcanusMemoria]

great video, great message! I agree, humans are far too bias to love the sinner but hate the sin...

[Dreathrevolution]

If your child bites you, would you hate your child or hate it when they bite you? When Jesus came He brought new rules. The "Hate Gays" thing was use in that time to keep His people in check without losing them to sin but now we use more peaceful, sophisticated manner. Dead soldiers can't bring you eternal peace. God is not selfish its just that if He created you should He let you serve other gods, live sinfully curse His holy name and still let you into His kingdom?

[Subfightr]

Thank you for the comment. Seeing as you took the time to do this, you deserve a better response then what can fit in this box. I will make a video regarding what you have said. Many people have used the child biting analogy, it gives the appearance of answering this question, it deserves a video. The rest of what you said is very much what i would say to people when I was a Christian. I hope to address this in a video, would you mind if I used your nick/quote or do you wish to stay out of it?

[Subfightr]

TO EVERYONE! I am a strong proponent of freedom so speech I will never remove your comments. Many people have had their comments not fully post lately. It is a problem with youtube, it has happened to me many times as well.

[actorsallydotcom]

I'm catholic but dont totally agree with the whole 'hate the gays; thing. first, i mean that whole thing was in the old testemant, and even jesus says that we need to stop following the old testemants! so duh! i bet even jesus would be like this whole homophobia thing is dumb. I also like the fact that ur one of the atheist that knows the bible, i know alot that dont and then they just say all belivers hate gays, which is ovouisly not true. There is no religion that says hate people! u go boy!

[Subfightr]

I'm glad to hear you do not hate people, and thank you for the kind words. I am curious though, many people will say things like "oh well... that is old test" as if it means nothing now. Many things are old test and the followers practice it as if it were new (I am assuming new is the one you are to follow). The 10 commandments are old test and people always bring that one up. How can I help people who follow the old test, get beyond their people hating ways?

[Chillaxes]

the ten commandments say love ur neighbor not love only ur straight neighbor. i would just tell to read it first before they use it as a hate method,u know?cant really change people tho and it kinda sucks

[Subfightr]

.. Where do they say love your neighbor?

The people who say love the sinner but hate the sin do not appear to me to read it first. They just get a gooey gumdrops version from the preacher. That is why they are ignorant of the line after 'gays they are an abomination', which instructs them to kill gays. It is indeed hard to change people's minds, but it is possible. My mind was changed, others can change as well.

Thank you very much for your comment.

[Dreathrevolution]

Are you a christian that is, instead of preaching the Word to him encouraging him to be an atheist?

[Subfightr]

That may be, I do have a bias as I too am an atheist. He has had the "word" preached to him, just as I have and everyone else. This is the problem with religious people, they will not allow you to think for yourself. THEY HAVE TRUTH! They are right and we are wrong, they must change us, if we are not swayed by the poorly evidenced, parroted answer, then to simply keep the peace we are expected to lie. I hope that I encouraged him to be himself, and tell the truth. I dont blame him if he did not.

[neoContraVo]

i believe in Unicorns.

[Subfightr]

You are probably joking but I assume there really are people who do. If you honestly do, may I ask why? Evidence? Just some belief you have? I could see like... a goat or something with a fucked up horn but, I am aware of no horses even having ancestors that had horns, natural selection seems to have no use for them in horses. A horse with a horn would make as much sense as a human with feathers and wings

[Subfightr]

uh oh, 4 stars now! looks like I finally found a non atheist viewer! ( I don't intend to preach to the choir ) I hope you did not just realize I do not agree with you and click 1 star before you went onto the next vid. I appreciate your taking the time to rate though, whom ever you are.

[lovelee199]

wow this made me sad :( i love everyone including god i dont understand why you think thats so wrong

[Subfightr]

I am sorry this made you sad, that is not my intention. I do not have a problem with you loving people or God... What did I say that gave you that impression? You are not my problem, it is those who hate gays and others as a result of the bible quotes in the video.

[KiraCanFly]

I agree. I don't understand "love the sinner, hate the sin" at all. It seems as just an act that people put on so that they aren't seen as hateful beings, even though they are.

I'm not an athiest, but I still see a lot of flaws in religion, espescially christianity.

[Subfightr]

Thank you for commenting. I agree too :P

[Malorla]

I agree wholeheartedly with the views you have expressed in this video. I am also and atheist, and i live in a small suburb of Oklahoma City. I see so much HATE every day from people who claim to "Love everyone" and who say all this rhetoric about how their God is forgiving and nice and also loves everyone, and yet i not only AM a victim of their hate -because i don't agree with their prized notions- but i am friends with other victims. Gays, who have suffered being told all this CRAP!! thanks.

[Malorla]

(don't you hate limits?lol) thanks for speaking out, more people need to do so. I see my friends who are gay, and they tell me how they can't come out to their parents because they are really religious and if they came out to them they could potentially have all these bad consequences. or haw so and so made a remark about gays going to hell in some class or WHAT EVER it is THAT day, and i can't believe that these people say "i don't hate gays, god does" and then turn around and do this crap..

[Subfightr]

Thank you for your comments and simply saying thanks. This video cost me alot of friends and my relationship with my some of my family has suffered as a result. Your saying thanks for speaking out means a lot to me. Thank you!

[Malorla]

why is my comment gone??? :(

[Subfightr]

I promise you i did not remove your comment. No one did, it is the fault of youtube. I would like to know what you have to say.

TO EVERYONE! I am a strong proponent of freedom so speech I will never remove your comments. Many people have had their comments not fully post lately. It is a problem with youtube, it has happened to me many times as well.

[Malorla]

It's ok, i wasn't blaming you, i was just sad.... "YOU TUBE, DON'T EAT COMMENTS!!!!"

[lovelee199]

wow my comment is gone too wierd huh ? im just not very good at this whole tecnology thing i geuss

[Subfightr]

:( I would love to know your thoughts.

Again, please know that your vanished comment is not a result of my doing.

I have found that if I post a comment and then hit the back button, my comment is sometimes gone.

[lovelee199]

I know its not you , but thanks for the tip of the back button , that could be the problem

[Lovingdoubt]

Yah, this phrase is one of my least favorites. It's double talk to make you feel "loving" whiile judging people. I've seen many people use this to justify horrible things.

[Largo64]

There are soldiers who have fought and even died for the freedom of some to spout nonsense about abomination. Some of those soldiers are the very people the religionists, the people who "love the sinner but hate the sin," would kill if they wouldn't go to prison for it.

"Love the sinner, but hate the sin," is just a phrase that means hypocrisy.

[Subfightr]

Hello Largo, that is ironic, I just found your chan last night. Yes you are right.