I recommend looking at some of arthur kogan's games. He is a strong gm and he plays some very interesting systems that scare most other strong players away. Anyway i agree with your points on the video. As long as I give 100 percent focus in a game I try not to be dissapointed with the result.
playing on a chess server. We played many games, and discussed many interesting things. He analyzed my style and told me basically this: your opening are fine, you have good intuition, and your middle game is fine. But your endgame is weak compare to the rest of your game! I mean this advice is invaluable, because I get a X-ray of my play. And then you can focus on improving bearing in mind where are your weakness! Let me give you an advice: you learn more from a loss than from 100 wins!!
When I say focus on reparing these flaws i mean, moving into one direction, improving your game. Some people might be tactical beast, but poor strategical thinkers, others great opening players but little intuition i mean the range of possibilites is wide, and surely every player has weakers areas, and stronger areas of the game. You should take advice on stronger players to understand your own game,style etc. I played against the cousin of Radjabov a very strong IM. We became friends...
Also about how to handle a loss: if it against a stronger opponent and he outplays you in a nice fashion, then you take your hat off and thats it. If its against weaker opponents it surely make you feel bad. But you should ask yourself the proper questions: was I tired? out of shape? ... If it has nothing to do with mental condition: then analyze deeply on the mistakes. Why did I lose? was it a tactical shot, strategical mistake, opening mistake,etc... then focus on "repairing" these flaws.
I lost my first game of the season which happened after having a break from chess (7 years), against a weaker opponent in my opinion, but very well prepared. Basically he outplay me in the opening. He played a line I considered an insult to good play, but it turned out that if he knows the lines very well, there is nothing wrong! I have still so much to learn on OTB chess!! Now when I encounter a dubious opening, I take my time, and I try to think strategically, and dont go on impulses.
I thought the most important and insightful part of this was the bit on ratings. I had to stop playing some video games because I became trapped by my statistics, always aiming for that 0.1 increase in my kill/death ratio. It drove me mad. Playing for ratings isn't playing for the love of the game, and why do something if you don't love it?
I enjoy losing to strong players, each loss is a game to look at deeply. When I get pissed off is when my opponent is unsportsmanlike and I lose (constant draw offers, noisy, knocking pieces over in time trouble). However no matter how hard you try you will always lose games, you have to accept this. If you're not losing games you're not playing people of high enough strength. I recommend not allowing yourself to make mistakes like you showed (opening). Slow down in the opening...
KC this has to be my favorite video of yours man because it totally got me to think about how I handle losses. I played in a tournament this past weekend and lost to a few people 300 pts lower than me... Tons of points lost... And I've been studying at least 1-2 hours EVERY day. Feels like a TOTAL waste of time for me to be studying since it seems like it isn't helping me in the least bit. I'm studying tactics and all that good stuff people normally suggest. How to cope? Losing just sucks...
@pitstainz To become a very strong player, I think you need to evolve your game along many different inter-related facets - not just tactics, but opening theory, positional play, endgame play, managing your time on the clock, managing your energy levels during a tournament, keeping yourself hydrated, getting rest before games, preparing for opponents well, aiming often for "easier to play" positions, knowing pawn structure plans well, being able to do nice manoevers, etc. Chess is very hard!
Interesting topic. One of the most important lessons for young people is to learn how to behave when they lose. No one is perfect. Therefore, everyone will occasionally lose. So what do you do? Act like an infant? Cry? There is a social norm. An etiquette in the game. Losing is a learning experience and the victor deserves to be congratulated. And it's ok to say "I'll get you next time." Gentlemen behave in a gracious fashion giving due respect to both competitors and recognizing the victor.
I like that you post losses. It reminds us that you're not invincible, haha. But namely, it allows the rest of us mere mortals to gain some incite, even if the outcome isn't amazing.
KC, for me chess is 95% about winning. We often talk of "battles" and "wars".The openings that you suggest are dull are others studies. As you know, their favourite positions are as valid as yours. When I played competitive pool I used to dread the tacticle (dull) players, but took great pleasure in beating them (at their game, or by potting them off the table). The will to win at almost any cost is often said to be the difference between the "good" and the "great"; think Mac Enroe or Botham.
When I lose I judge my performance as being not very good. When I win I judge my opponent's performance as being not very good. That is one bad attitude I've got.
Generally, I think, feeling badly or the emotion of regret is a mechanism that is suppose to prevent us from making the same kind of mistake over and over. So regret is a good emotion.
I'd be interested in your view about how you handle winning too.
@kingscrusher Chess is the game of kings for a reason, it's not about winning all the time. The purpose of chess is to teach you to fight until the end and to lose with honour. We will never always be the best, but we will always be the best we can be. When I lose a game I simply remember the words of a great champion: "That's chess, you know. One day you give a lesson, the next day your opponent gives you a lesson." - Bobby Fischer
After losing play against a much lower rated opponent for a few games. Also accuse the winner of cheating. Maybe check his ratings in the shorter time controls. See how many of his moves follow engine moves... that sort of thing... to justify your lose.
In some ways if you don’t feel a little disheartened then that in itself is a bad thing. Playing for fun is all well and good but I think we all recognise that it’s more fun to win than to lose. The discouragement upon losing is often a motivator to examine one’s performance; review the theory as well as one’s own style of play and, hopefully, improve next time. Often it’s the fear of failing that leads people to become better players. Maybe that’s just me being competitive though... ;)
I am a 1948 USCF rated player and I lost a game to a 1521 last week. Of course I was upset, but I was surprised to not feel any anger towards my opponent, or to myself afterwards. I simply overlooked something in the main line and I was punished quite badly. I kind of overplayed the poisition and was too careless. BUT I LEARNT SOMETHING! And that is what really counts.
I really suffer when I lose. But is it possible to get away from if u care about the game? Isent there some parralel between how much u enjoy winning and how much u suffer when u lose? I would guess the only way to be okey with losing is if you dont really care about chess. If you are improving and are studying hard to do so, i think its not possible to avoid the suffering. The only cure is another win, the problem is that its hard to sit down and play another game if u spent 3-4 h n are angry.
I think here applies the law of life "there´s always someone better or stronger than you", but We all have seen your videos and we all know you are a tough player, if for instance you weigh your losses and wins i´m sure you´d have a pretty good balance. ANd there´s no known way to cope with losing, all the GM´S like Carlsen, Anand, when they lost, they all got really mad.. When Kasparov lost against Vishy Anand He was pissed.
There are two kinds of people in the world, those who are "self-actualized," and those who are not. I've played competitive video games (strategy-based), and I was at one time, in one of them, one of the top 10 highest rated players. Some players "rage" and cannot handle a loss, but I also chose to align myself with teammates who are "self-actualized."
Thanks kingscrusher for a subject on which Im an expert.I don,t play chess faster than 15 minute time control but have come to the conclusion that the more dynamic and complex the game the more calculation it needs to make sure a counter attack is not going to over run me. I guess that also means that longer time controls should be more complex. I think blitz chess is about time management and stopping to think more at critical points of the game,but I guess this applies to any time control.
@Kingcrusher - with regards to Karpov playing like a fish - I htink tis true in all sports that you get the exciting - crowd pleasing - style on one hand and then perhaps a more "intellectual" b ut less emotive style on the other. Which is better can fluctuate. I'm very much into motor racing and the contrasting styles between Button and Hamilton make an interesting comparison. Also in boxing you get the hitters and the boxers. Whose to say which is best though!?.
Thats what the resign button is for. I'm always frustrated with losing games that I should have won rather than the games that I was crushed. I look at chess games.com and ALL the greatest players to have played the game have recorded loses. That makes me feel better when I do lose because Im always in good company with the world best players. Enjoy the game for what it is...a game
One thing about playing on the Internet is that you dont have to look into the eyes of your adversary, look at there emotions whether winning or losing. Ratings are not important. Play abunch of higher rated players and your rating takes a hit,. Thats what is nice about auto pairing. Lost a bunch of game via mouse slip or premoves. All in good fun though. Win lose or draw just click on next game and dont sweat it. There are more important things in life than worring about the results of a GAME.
@Cigarzrule This is a good point - sometimes I do find the OTB glaring of some opponents a bit annoying. There are many facets of OTB play that simply don't exist in online chess - and one has to be able to handle those as well - and maybe not give away too much information from one's emotional expressions, like "I just horrifically blundered - Oh dear!" written all over one's face.
"You may learn much more from a game you lose than from a game you win. You will have to lose hundreds of games before becoming a good player". - Jose Capablanca
Hi all, I have put some stuff in the description of this video - a link to some quotations about losing. Also, some of my latest thoughts posted on reddit. Also two links to two relevant reddit threads. This is a very interesting topic indeed, and I wonder now why I didn't raise this clearly basic chess issue earlier on the channel!
It's as simple as it looks! Nobody likes to lose! But if you really want to enjoy it the game should go to strange paths where chaos will occur and are called to deal with! In essence face your fears! The path that leads to heart of this wonderful game as only difficulty is the fear of defeat!Just embarked on a path......
@strangepippis Just as long as it is other people's losses I'm looking at to learn from, that's absolutely fine what you said. Shaving on other people's faces is a key skill to evolve to minimise one's personal losses, and just learn from everyone else's instead. Haha :)
The way to handle this and many other irrational emotions, is to understand that things are what they are, and nothing more. A loss is a loss, but you are not a loser simply because you lost a game. When you lose, when you compare the cost of losing with the payout of learning a lesson and gaining experience, you will find out it was a bargain. Never define yourself based on any failure, for how you feel is how you are! In this line of thinking, defining yourself on your IDEALS is far superior!
When a player is frustrated by his losses in Poker we call this going on tilt and is more likely to make bad decisions based on emotions rather than logic. The players in chess that play dull systems are likely playing either with the goal of averting their losses (since they will take a loss much worse than they will a win) or maybe their goal is to just play what they believe is theoretically correct to give them the best expectation of a result for the game.
Hi, I play poker for a living and quite a lot of what you discussed in the video is common in Poker. There is a cognitive bias called loss aversion where we take our losses much worse than we do our wins. If a player is winning he is likely to play more cautiously to protect his winnings and conversely if he is losing he is likely to play more aggressively to chase his losses.
I've learned that the more you know about the game, the harder it becomes to withstand losing a won game. When you lose by a beautiful tactical combination or a flashy sacrifice, then it's OK, i guess. When you lose an already lost endgame, it's also ok. But losing a won game.. gosh that hurts! I wish i could give you any tips. I usually have trouble sleeping the night after, thinking variations in my head, and keep repeating "how on earth did i miss that? it was so obvious...."
Honestly, losing theoretically won games or botching the opening and losing a pawn are the most painful losses. If I fight well in the endgame and end up getting positionally outsmarted then fine, though losing to obvious tactics is extremely annoying.
I just smile, shake the opponent's hand, and go outside and get some fresh air. I usually tell myself that even though I lost this time I can always set the pieces up again for another game.
I only play chess for fun & thus I never use sound openings esp after reading clyde nakamura's search for dragons & mythical creatures. Plus, there is gm on youtube that used to post polar bear opening f4, which I adore. Personally I developed a unique black Nh6 for the sake of fun. As u can imagine I lose a lot...I've learned to put learning in front of pride. I do wish there were youtube channels for unorthodox chess.
I'm not a very good player. My USCF rating is 1870 or something. I try to play solidly if I can because there is no fun to lose too early. An "exciting loss" in the opening means you never got a chance to try a play an equal or better endgame. So it's not just about losing points. As for the psychology, I don't sleep very well. I know I should take it easier but I can't. It's part of the game. You're not outrun or outjumped, you're outsmarted. That's way more painful. No way around it.
most of us are wired to be competitive it's our nature ,when I'm at the top of my rating (that is still rubbish ,lols ) I feel good about myself ,I know it's silly, but hay I'm only human .
I personally get a bit frustrated when I'm on a losing streak. I guess we all do. Although I lose a lot of the time when I'm on strict time controls, or make quick, often silly moves due to time pressure.
when examining openings and variations etc our emotions are mostly detached so that come an actual game we can forget what we saw and lose as a result; only w/ the bitter taste of ashes in our mouths do we subsequently remember .. defeat is visceral, it helps us remember, is the most effective teacher, serves our eventual success
I think that in such situations we must not lose sight of the fact that chess is a subset of life and not the opposite. Simply focus for a moment on other aspects of your life such as your friends, your family. Take a deep breath and let go the disappointment. Try to divide the competitive aspect of the game from the artistic one.
I think the more investment in terms of study I put in, the more I'd hate to lose. Not really sure of the answer, because it's been a few months since I've played after someone used an engine on me. I still love chess and will get back into it. There is also the frustration of the hitting a platue and not seeming to be able to move past it or see more noticable improvement that is demoralizing. Frankly, I think you handle your loses well and I've always admired that when I hear how calm y ou
After I watched this video I gave it a bit of thought, and the solution I thought of was to just tell myself over and over during the game that I was probably going to lose, that I was certainly going to lose, so that when I lose, it's no big deal since I expected it anyway. I tried doing this in a few five minute games and it seemed pretty effective. I think it helps to be negative also because you're more aware of the vulnerabilities in your position and are less likely to make oversights.
This video explains to me why I stopped playing chess seriously. I was spending a lot of time and money improving my game, and then getting rather upset that I kept losing to people I was better than.
indeed an interesting game is what its all about. surely no one has ever played one interesting game 1 after another without let-up ad-infinitum. intersesting games are by their nature dual edged.
I think I suffer psychologically after I lose a good game, even if I try to treat the game as trivial. In my online chess I try to ignore my rating, however I would like to reach 2000 at some stage and I realize that I can't yet maintain a good enough performance, and so I can tell myself that I don't know enough about the game or that maybe my opponent cheated etc, I still believe in my own ability however I know that other people are much smarter in certain fields etc.
IMHO I feel that there's a psichological factor to bear in mind when asking ourselves what type of game do we want. You lost an ammount of games last session, due to the weaknesses you created in your own side of the board, still, in all games there's was a time in which winning seemed plausible, and that might not happen if you play too solid a game. Coping with defeat is almost difficult, so as long as you don't feel you actually lost time at it, it shouldn't bother you...cheeers!
When you were talking about how people play boring games to avoid losing I had to disagree. Personally I don't find tactical attacking games fun at all. I like nothing more that a quiet positional game were there are a lot of subtle maneuvers required. I am just saying that people don't always play things like the London system just for fear of losing but some people actually enjoy those types of positions.
can play and enjoy chess, anyone can be part of the conversation. So more and more I take a breather after my games and remind myself that, like you said, we're not professionals. We still get to eat at the end of the day. Instead of being burnt after a loss, we should appreciate the great conversation that we're a part of - perhaps by going back to our favorite puzzles or games. And if greats like Ivanchuk and Tal could lose gracefully, then what egos we must have to think we can't!
@mraxeguy Yes there is a "conversation" about latest games, classic games, and even opening theory among many other things. I guess when you find you misplayed an opening you can look up all relevant games, and be more part of the "theoretical opening conversation" which goes through time, and ends up being those win/draw/loss stats you get in online databases.
Kingscrusher, I've been watching your videos for years now. I remember the first one I saw, on the Luzhin Defense Puzzle. I'm absorbed by chess now, and I feel absolutely crushed when I lose some games. But that video reminds me why I started playing chess so much to begin with: it's a beautiful world and I love being part of the conversation! When I talk to my clubmates about famous games, puzzles, and openings, it fascinates me because we all experience and appreciate similar things. Anyone
Actually sometimes I'm a bit sadistic (revenge?), and I handle it trying to make the other make a blunder and loose after getting the advantage. There's nothing worst than when you loose with advantage :P
Anyway, it's a really complicated game, everybody makes blunders and you are gonna win an loose a lot of games.... so I just accept that I can't change it and move on playing and trying to enjoy it.
@DerivedEnergy Have you considered an alternative therapy like going through the Super GM tournaments recently and checking out all the losses of players over 2700 to realise that even if you were astronomically stronger than you are now, you could still lose several games in the same tournament. Just a thought anyway :)
@kingscrusher I like you man. Superior chess player; great analysis; a good sense of humour and a lively and enthusiastic tone of voice. In Indonesia and Bolivia people still play chess on the side of the road. In England expressing that you have a passion for chess is like admitting you have a dirty and sordid little secret.
My 3 reasons for playing, despite sucking: 1. It's competetive. Ego. 2. It's a challenging puzzle, and a joy to solve. Why do people enjoy any kind of puzzle - or puzzle-game? The most satisfying games are those won via a truly insightful attack, with the rare queen sacrifice (esp. if it's not in a directly mate forcing combination) being the pinnacle of that. 3. Related to #2, chess is a beautiful game. I even enjoy it when I lose not by my blunders or time, but by my opponent's excellence.
It's when those reasons for playing fail that it becomes unpleasant to lose. I go board blind at least once a game - commonly an entire opening or mid game spent winning material or positional advantage, only to blunder away an entire piece. Most of my losses (I play weak players online) are on time or egregious blunders. For me, the pain of losing is frustration at my own failures of mental disipline. It's like I'm spotting my opponent a few pawns if not an entire peice with every game.
So I'd say, despite having an ego, I know I'm not a good player, and don't really get too down about losing per se. It's the MANNER in which I lose that can spoil the game. When I play well, really play my best, it doesn't bother me to lose. In fact, I often enjoy losing to superior play, because the dire situation I find myself in often prompts my best and most insightful play - and that's what makes the game satisfying.
@VeryEvilPettingZoo Yes that is very noble - but I would rather experience excellence in those brilliant classic games which are not to do with me losing. But rather those most collected "immortal games". Because then I don't lose nights of sleep with painful agony, regret, rewriting of "My system", learning tonnes more theory, or resenting having to play another game any time soon. Just kidding. No but seriously I have heard the expression "Learn to shave on someone else's face" - master games
The bulk of my reply is in a PM, but regarding "learning by shaving on someone else's face": that's certainly wise, but can only go so far. If you ever meet a master of a musical instrument - or any skill or talent - you'll no doubt discover that they read and study a lot. But overwhelmingly, you'll find that they practice & play (as in, play around). (You obviously do this.) We're human beings, and hands-on is our primary & indispensible mode of learning/improving at everything.
@gunuffimoo Yes but you have to be careful how you identified these "blunders". If it's from engine post mortem analysis, you need to remember Engines play at like 3200 strength, and so their "punishment" of blunders is difficult to server out. Instead often it is "easier to play" postions that maybe your best way of "punishing" opponent's blunders.
Honestly I'd be happy to see you post more videos of your losses. I have always viewed losing as the best motivator to gain skill. The key is not to get frustrated!
@Teeseff Yes, I try and post all my games now - especially online - as I mentioned it is the commentary which is the key really from this channel's perspective. But for the ordinary player, there surely must be other aspects of win/loss independence that make the game worth playing. Fun of the game/ Content of the game / Learning experience, etc.
the worst thing as well is...the better you get at something the more painful the defeats become, because you feel ur closer to making real progress, a real breakthrough...you once walloped me in a two-minute game on chesscube, which i enjoyed because i knew i was playing a much stronger player, and i was just glad to last 40 moves without blundering too badly...i doubt u would have enjoyed it if ud lost! similarly kasparov wouldnt enjoy losing a simul game to you!
@fullspeccydominance Yes, I guess I was more gutted than usual from my last loss because it came after two wins.. however objectively I was very lucky in those two wins, so I am not really sure if I made "real progress" after all. Perhaps losses do bring one closer to earth, and wins encourage a false confidence. Really even in our wins, we probably play quite a lot of blunders from an engine perspective nearly every game.
@kingscrusher i dont think we can realistically expect progress to be an upward curve...there are going to be multiple setbacks and peaks and troughs...personally for me i think you are a very strong 'ideas' player, perhaps not as accurate as someone like chessexplained, but ive learnt a lot from watching your games and listening to your ideas...ive improved about 200 chesscube rating points since ive been watching ur channel nearly made it to 2000 and its definitely not merely due to experience
@fullspeccydominance Yes, actually I noticed many losses in a row, when revisiting "My system" by Nimzovich a few years back. It occured to me that actually I needed to distinguish theoretical weaknesses from "exploitable weaknesses". And this can often be the immediate symptom of any abstract middlegame chess book - that the concepts dangling in one's head don't match the requirements and "exploitable elements" of the positions one finds oneself in when actually playing.
@kingscrusher yes, i have noticed that you're a very 'conceptual' player, i think much more than most people, its quite evident from your commentaries...which personally i think is great, because i do tend to simply look at details of the position and try to find the best move or the immediate dangers / opportunities...this is why ur channel is a very valuable resource particularly to beginners or intermediate players
@kingscrusher in terms of exploitable / long-term weakenesses...i think this is the great skill of a very strong player, the simple ability to be able to assess who stands better...no-one has mastered it completely you just have to make small steps...i think weve all played games where weve spent the whole game trying to overcome some small nagging weakness that we either overlooked or underestimated, as have stronger players than you or i!
you can never overcome the pain of losing...this is one of the crazy things about sport; the pain of losing is far greater than the joy of winning...if you hear really successful sportsmen, particularly footballers talk, who have won loads of trophies, they will often say that the crucial defeats stay with them much longer than the victories...its something about the human condition to strive to create, to achieve something, you could argue that its particularly part of the male psyche
@fullspeccydominance Well I feel particularly bad for those that have do the penalty shootouts in the World cup. Because those shootouts aren't really part of the game, and there seems to be an element of luck in how the Goalkeeper anticipates to go left/right or stay in the center. Especially assuming others before the penalty taker got theirs in the back of the net.
@kingscrusher there is definitely an element of luck but also an element of nerve, and its something you have to prepare for, i suppose an analogous situation would be blitz tie-breaks in a classical chess tournament...its disappointing to lose that way but you know the rules before you begin
Kramnik talks in his Chessbase DVD about how having a "loser mentality" has helped him in critical games. That is to really prepare oneself for all the _benefits_ of losing. You learn something from it, you have less pressure and expectations for your next game, you can value life outside of chess more. This obviously doesn't suit everyone but it helps me a lot. I perform much better when I can distance myself from the fear of losing and concentrate on the position, not the result.
@mattiassollerman Yes, from the perspective of this channel I fear having dry dull games and especially having quick agreed draws. Except occaisonally I play slightly higher rated players, and it is in the Herts league which has adjournments or adjoudications in which case I am more attempted to agree a draw if possible - especially if the team can win the match.
@northlondonguitarist Clearly at that ECF level you are in the top 10% of the rated player population of ECF players. Also you play for one of the strongest clubs in London. However, if you really feel you are "bad" at chess, then maybe that can act to suppress any potential pain of losing, as you lessen expectations. However, win or lose, perhaps it is good to always do post-mortems to learn stuff from any game result.
@northlondonguitarist No no no- you are good, and you will suffer lots of pain like the rest of us. No hiding out there in "I'm a bunny" psychology for you. Haha. The expectations are super high for you guitarist to win every game and show your true natural chess talent. Just kidding. Maybe in your other interests, you successfully keep chess "in context" and therefore aren't too bothered about losing.
@kingscrusher yes, you're correct - chess for me is a way to relax. For example, when I was playing guitar on the BBC, I cared about how I performed - it's my job. When I play chess like a patzer, I don't care too much. It's just a fun, absorbing hobby. But I am a bunny
For me it's all about learning experience. I enjoy a game where I lose and improve because of the experience far more than a game where I win and don't take anything away from the game.
@TheZhengmeister Yes, but Kasparov has also emphasised going over wins too - to learn and innovate against future opponents who will adapt and learn too. Being non-complacent is the key here, to try and elevate the strength of one's play. Doing post-mortems must fit very well into a learner's policy - to go over games regardless of game result - as well as going over master games, and doing puzzles, etc.
all the best lessons in life are hidden in are failures, including chess! So i guess it goes back to what is the point of life? To gain FIDE points or any other kind of status? Or to enjoy life, enjoy the journey and improve?
I must admit this is much easier in the comments section of youtube than in reality :)
Interesting that as a chess amateur playing blitz chess there is the near universal human failing to value a time win in a lost position over playing a very strong positional game and then throwing it away under time pressure.
@NickyPomme Well online there is also other risks of say cheating - so a win can be seen as a win sometimes, especially when you have to adopt "survival mode" against those choosing to use Engines to win, because their ego is so frail or something that they do anything to try and win. Really online chess isn't that painful to me at all - given it is non policeable and the time investment minimal. In fact, for those that think online chess is "painful", I really think they should also try OTB.
I quit chess more than 20 years ago, because I hated myself every time I lost a game. About 2 years ago I came across one of your vids and thought: "Well, at least I could watch the game ... No suffering involved." - Well, I'am hooked again and I play online for fun. I still dont like to loose, but it has become bearable.
@TheHuginMunin This is very interesting indeed. I think maybe it could help for detachment purposes to work on a "system" of play - to indeed generalise - and then having something to blame rather than take it too personally. You can blame your generalisations, as opposed to your very ego. Also you can qualify losses based on opening advantage, tiredness, etc. I hope the comments here offer some pointers anyway for handling losses. I think they are already very helpful.
@bleek18 The "London system" opening example was used to illustrate if some players want to play an opening with the motivation of minimal risk of losing. Positional players are not necessarily risk-averse. Tactical attacking players may consider also that they lose less when they have more tactical games, if they lean the opening towards their strength. A player tries to play an opening to suit their strengths. But the examples I gave were for the motivation of mainly avoiding risk.
When I lose a rated game in a particularly painful way, what I attempt to do is to just keep playing more games. Enter the next tournament that comes along and try to do well. Getting right back on the horse sort of pushes the loss out of your mind (for the most part.)
Thank you for your reply. I realized a long time ago; I am a lot more than my rating. My rating does not define me in life. It is important to note when it comes to chess as well as life that I do not see past the choices I make (until after I've made them, hence hindsight is 20/20 sometimes) I play on ICC as rado2009. My rating has been up and down from 1600's to 1932. I make a silly mistake/oversight, I just laugh, congratulate my opponent and move on. See what I can learn from the experience.
OMG. This video could not have been uploaded at the most right time for me. Yesterday, it seemed that I was just winning in sequence, playing great, fun games after another. Today, as soon as I started losing, it started going downhill from there. I missed alot of opportunities to mate and end up blundering badly.Then I started losing in sequence to a point where I lost about 70 rating in the 5-min pool. I don't do much long games but I think this can relate. Wins and loss for me are in sequence
@kingscrusher I know I can't say where ur tendecy to generalize began bc I don't know you, but I think ignorance can be bliss with chess and ur very knowledgable abt concepts, which by nature generalize. Thing is you have to find the right ones for the position - ignorance might not just be bliss, it might inspire good play. I think engines play like children because they don't have experiential biases
How I handled loses depended often on rhythm of the loss. Games that were really hard to take were games that got to a critical position and I would do a 10+ minute hard think and then lose. If the game was played at a even pace it was not so bad. One funny thing was my chess results got better when I got older and didn't care as much. The less I cared the better I played to point. The pressure I put myself under was too much in my teens and 20s.
@TheBigGuppy Yes I think I heard that IM Peter Large took up chess professionally and his results apparently got worse. Chess stopped being for fun and creativity. He went back to being an accountant and his chess became more relaxed again - and results apparently improved again.
I started playing chess at 11 and loved it but my enjoyment slowly decreased until at 18 I almost gave up (I came back after 6 months). Throughout that time my ECF/FIDE was going up but the pain of losing got worse while the joy of victory decreased and I took lots of draws. I put less time into the game now which I think is the difference. Only 2 or 3 tournaments a year and I study far less - if I lose a game I can shrug it off. Good for my enjoyment but not my FIDE which hasn't improved since
@tipau If you play for a local chess club, most of your "rated games" will not be FIDE rated anyway - they will be rated by your local chess federation. Is FIDE such a big deal anyway, if the greater game sample is with one's local federation?!
@kingscrusher I play more FIDE rated games than plain ECF games these days but I'm not so bothered by my rating/grade anymore. I would have said my national grade hasn't increased either but it has because everyone got a 15 point bump a couple of years back :) I play now because I enjoy it, of course I'd still like my rating to go up but I'm not prepared to invest as much of my time into doing it as I used to because IMO it's not worth it when the knock backs hurt as much as they used to
Kingscrusher is a strong player but I think the thing he offers to chessplayers is what limits him: by analyzing games and concepts he seems to overwhelm his play at times by being to heavily influenced by that which he educates people on. By being committed to the exploration of these ideas, the amorphous concepts interfere with objective, positional play, with some amazing results and some not so amazing. A good video, I hate losing 2
@LoFidelityBeatz I am not sure this is true - my obsession with generalisations began many years before youtube. It just so happens that a generalistic attitude probably does make for instructional videos but such an attitude wasn't formed from Youtube - it was formed from a programmer perspective I think. I don't actually like to view chess as a concrete game - but rather take the Nimzovichian perspective of the existence of "A system". This is more in line with a programmer's perspective.
Thank you for all your videos. Win or loss is an outcome. I have limited resources to control my environment or the world around me including others. As long as I have applied my resources as fully as I could, including messing up and losing a winning position, I elevate my self above the outcome. Meeting it with grace and poise. I expect nothing and accept everything, using it to learn and grow. "I defeated you" my opponent said. "No, you won." "Only I can defeat my self", I replied.
@jradovich Yes just like Computers use Binary - 0 or 1 - we shouldn't see Chess as Binary or three outcomes - but rather the experience of the game itself. As we can look more at the qualitative factors around the game experience, rather than just the binary result. Especially if the binary result (or draw) doesn't really mean anything in particular except maybe a rating adjustment.
@jradovich Yes I try and take comfort in trying to find my best resources in each game - I always put effort in, except perhaps if really shattered, and it is sort of painful/ too much energy to play.
Can't really call a position "boring." That is subjective. I enjoy tactics and dynamism but I have a deep appreciation of subtelty and accuracy 2. If I can win a pawn I will try to play like a machine because I really dig Karpov's style. Of course, I'm nothing like Karpov though
I think this topic really boils down to the question of how we deal with making mistakes. As a believer into Jesus, I realise that actually I am a fallen human being, the mistakes (losses) just expose what I am intrinsically. However this vision of the self is balanced with the vision of Christ and who He is. I am on the process of seeing and experiencing both, so when I loose at chess I don't look at myself and all my failures and defeats, I look away to Jesus , this wonderful one.
@aidanquigley Well we could also argue that we are not chess engines. As such, we are bound to miss a tonne of tactical variations every single game we play compared with engines. Even if we did win those games brilliantly - we would still have not seen the huge amount of variations say an Engine would see. Maybe a true perfectionist wouldn't even care about the game result being 0 or 1 or 0.5 - but rather what they saw and didn't see during the game ?!
There was a commentary below that nails it: being afraid of loosing wether in chess or in life is what prevent from trying to succeed. Its the fear factor. Fact is we only have one life, one try at this, so we better give our heart and soul to the things we want to achieve. We indeed have nothing to loose and everything to gain. Unfortunately it is easier said then done. KC you have the talent, the potential to be a great player, just do it, nothing else matters, loosing is the least of your pr
@AzraelAscoli Well in my case - does fear include the fear of "going round in circles" because I do like to generalise from losses and abstract. But I fear these generalisations are fairly hopeless compared to concrete analysis of concrete positions. And also other concrete factors - the amount of opening theory one knows.. games... endgames, etc.
@kingscrusher KC this is very much similar to what I face everyday when doing mathematic research: those concrete factors you are talking about are, indeed fundamental, BUT there is a time element attached to them: they take a lot of time to develop. Loss in mathematics could be defined as mistakes in elementary concepts while much complex ones seem to be understood. It the sign that you need to go deeper in your understanding of this particular aspect...
@AzraelAscoli Most of the time, elementary does not mean simple and is the expression of a generalized, hence very complex, object. About 1 year ago I had to redefine my way of working and been applying a new method: I expect that in 4-5 years you might hear my name in the news hehe. And if you do not, the sheer amount of work I am doing will make of me one of the best mathematicians in the world. So its a win win position. We can discuss this in CCube one of these days.
I believe an inability to deal with losses is the number one limiting factor in our improvement as players. Hypnosis could be a good way to overcome these patterns we keep falling into. However, it takes about 20 consecutive sessions to make any real change in our patterns and most people aren't willing to make the commitment. Tracks I find handy are Focus, Concentration and Self Confidence. A track titled Chess Hypnosis is also available, but I'm not sure how useful it would be.
For me personally, I deal with losing by never investing myself enough to really feel the physic damage of losing. When I lose (57% of the time at 1400) I tell myself it's because I don't practice enough. This is because I'm weak and too afraid to really put my ego on the line. So I really respect you and what you're doing. You push yourself to a level that I will never achieve, and you broadcast it so we can live vicariously through your journey. Fuck the haters, you're only human.
The pain may never go away. Look at Ivanchuk's reaction after his recent game against Van Wely: youtube.com/watch?v=7viSTStHMxI (at 0:20) ...mind you: This is not after a loss, but after a draw!!
@maltebricht1 Honestly I thought that was quite amusing - and shared that Youtube video on the kingscrusher cafe at Cube. If nothing else - such reactions whether they be from Ivanchuk or Kasparov can make good Youtube entertainment. "Why must I draw to this patzer 2600 GM! Bahhh Bahhh"
I don't care if I win or lose, but I am concerned with maintaining my highest possible level of play. If I am not playing at my best, it is often because of an outside factor in my life. So, I try to first make sure that everything in my life is in good order, so that I can focus and devote myself to playing at my best. When my life is going well, I often play better chess, because I am more motivated and healthy minded. I do get upset at times, but it's more because of outside factors.
Yea, losses are painful. For me, the whole game keeps playing in my head for days. I read somewhere that we learn a lot more from our losses than our wins. After a loss, I take a few days to calm down, then have a look at the game to figure out my mistakes. One things certain, I don't lose the same way twice. :)
Sometimes it is far and away more painful losing in an opening you know well or just losing to a theoretically weaker opponent! BUT what I have learnt over the years is that take the loses for what they are worth, focus on your strengths and limit what risks that were taken that were unjustified. Maybe too aggressive?! Focus on the positive and work on the negative and eventually the negative won't be as bad as it once was... learning from mistakes and approach them unbias and with a clear head
I used to HATE losing to the point I wouldnt play or study chess for weeks, I think I was putting too much of my ego into it. I started playing better when I realized that is just a game and not that important (I guess it takes pressure away and I can evaluate the position objectibly). Also something that allowed me to look at loses as a learning experience is that I develop a opening repertoire that I NEVER deviate from. That way I can keep track of where my mistakes happened in the past.
@cuevasdecamuy Yes some people in my chess club have a very wide range of interests like Football, Golf, Rugby , Snooker etc - and their competitive portfolio is so diverse as a result. So their potential I guess for ego-damage is severely limited. I guess this might explain why I seem not to care about online ratings - because I care more about OTB ratings. Maybe having a portfolio of competitive interests reduces the ego pressure?!
@kingscrusher Ego can have a big effect. A good friend of mine would take lossing very badly ( he would bang his head against the wall, and hard) if he lost the first game in a tournament he would usually have a string of losses. Having a different competitive interest could maybe help. Also you may care more about OTB rating because is more personal. Online chess is a detached endeavor. You dont see the opponent or feel him/her.
@kingscrushe The way I reduced ego damage was by telling myself that chess is a human game and about consistancy,we know very little about it. One day you will play GM strength others like a patzer. Ups n downs are normal and I shouldnt beat myself up for the "downs". downs are more frequent when one is not familiar with the position. GM's know more positions, it brigns me a smile when I hear a titled player say "I have no idea whats going on" losing is discovering which positions you dont know.
True story: After a string of losses on a bad day I bashed my keyboard so hard some of the keyes stopped working and I had to buy a new one! I have since calmed down and learned to relax and not take my losses so seriously.
@menkooomigen Yes sometimes I have been really annoyed losing an online game despite claiming the contrary in a lot of my previous comments - and I couldn't upload the video commentary as a result - as the commentary essentially became poor/ angry! So I try and remain calm now when doing live commentaries - as I want to be able to upload! Haha, but this perspective of being calm is good anyway if you are losing at an OTB match etc - you don't want to get a bad rep. of being a really sore loser!
I cope with it by analysing my psychology as well as the game. I think both are equally important.
From my observation, weak players are often delusional players. In my opinion it's not about coping with "loss", it's about fear to be confronted with your own weakness and limitations.
I try to see every game as an experience. There are no important tournaments, or games I have to win. I Just do my best, every time.
@noxure Yes good point - I do try and video annotate each game on this channel - especially losses. But maybe I could add more to the psychological angle. In my last game, I remember I wasn't very keen to play that night. My fear is that of going round in circles with generalisations and faults in "kingscrusher - My system" which somehow are not resolvable because chess is a concrete game. And perhaps even with the best principles in the world at one's disposal you can still lose.
@Chesster1400 Yes they stop links. If there are any interesting points, please could you try and make them here - it would be great to know some key points just in summary here.
Really depends on my game (initial opening if I am "comfortable" with when playing black), the opponent (stronger or weaker). But on emotional level, I am 80% constructive. I laugh it away and try to find where did my losing begin (if it's not the obvious t.i. blunder). In remaining 20% I call myself a retard and/or a moron. So my reactions are pretty standard, I imagine. :)
I recommend looking at some of arthur kogan's games. He is a strong gm and he plays some very interesting systems that scare most other strong players away. Anyway i agree with your points on the video. As long as I give 100 percent focus in a game I try not to be dissapointed with the result.
generalrigald 1 month ago
playing on a chess server. We played many games, and discussed many interesting things. He analyzed my style and told me basically this: your opening are fine, you have good intuition, and your middle game is fine. But your endgame is weak compare to the rest of your game! I mean this advice is invaluable, because I get a X-ray of my play. And then you can focus on improving bearing in mind where are your weakness! Let me give you an advice: you learn more from a loss than from 100 wins!!
crisis87 1 month ago
When I say focus on reparing these flaws i mean, moving into one direction, improving your game. Some people might be tactical beast, but poor strategical thinkers, others great opening players but little intuition i mean the range of possibilites is wide, and surely every player has weakers areas, and stronger areas of the game. You should take advice on stronger players to understand your own game,style etc. I played against the cousin of Radjabov a very strong IM. We became friends...
crisis87 1 month ago
Also about how to handle a loss: if it against a stronger opponent and he outplays you in a nice fashion, then you take your hat off and thats it. If its against weaker opponents it surely make you feel bad. But you should ask yourself the proper questions: was I tired? out of shape? ... If it has nothing to do with mental condition: then analyze deeply on the mistakes. Why did I lose? was it a tactical shot, strategical mistake, opening mistake,etc... then focus on "repairing" these flaws.
crisis87 1 month ago
I lost my first game of the season which happened after having a break from chess (7 years), against a weaker opponent in my opinion, but very well prepared. Basically he outplay me in the opening. He played a line I considered an insult to good play, but it turned out that if he knows the lines very well, there is nothing wrong! I have still so much to learn on OTB chess!! Now when I encounter a dubious opening, I take my time, and I try to think strategically, and dont go on impulses.
crisis87 1 month ago
I thought the most important and insightful part of this was the bit on ratings. I had to stop playing some video games because I became trapped by my statistics, always aiming for that 0.1 increase in my kill/death ratio. It drove me mad. Playing for ratings isn't playing for the love of the game, and why do something if you don't love it?
r3ndrag 1 month ago
I enjoy losing to strong players, each loss is a game to look at deeply. When I get pissed off is when my opponent is unsportsmanlike and I lose (constant draw offers, noisy, knocking pieces over in time trouble). However no matter how hard you try you will always lose games, you have to accept this. If you're not losing games you're not playing people of high enough strength. I recommend not allowing yourself to make mistakes like you showed (opening). Slow down in the opening...
jonsploder 1 month ago
If it wern't for you KC I d be terrible at chess
failboy98 1 month ago
KC this has to be my favorite video of yours man because it totally got me to think about how I handle losses. I played in a tournament this past weekend and lost to a few people 300 pts lower than me... Tons of points lost... And I've been studying at least 1-2 hours EVERY day. Feels like a TOTAL waste of time for me to be studying since it seems like it isn't helping me in the least bit. I'm studying tactics and all that good stuff people normally suggest. How to cope? Losing just sucks...
pitstainz 1 month ago
@pitstainz To become a very strong player, I think you need to evolve your game along many different inter-related facets - not just tactics, but opening theory, positional play, endgame play, managing your time on the clock, managing your energy levels during a tournament, keeping yourself hydrated, getting rest before games, preparing for opponents well, aiming often for "easier to play" positions, knowing pawn structure plans well, being able to do nice manoevers, etc. Chess is very hard!
kingscrusher 1 month ago
Interesting topic. One of the most important lessons for young people is to learn how to behave when they lose. No one is perfect. Therefore, everyone will occasionally lose. So what do you do? Act like an infant? Cry? There is a social norm. An etiquette in the game. Losing is a learning experience and the victor deserves to be congratulated. And it's ok to say "I'll get you next time." Gentlemen behave in a gracious fashion giving due respect to both competitors and recognizing the victor.
Mathview 1 month ago
I like that you post losses. It reminds us that you're not invincible, haha. But namely, it allows the rest of us mere mortals to gain some incite, even if the outcome isn't amazing.
halonone 1 month ago
@halonone *Insight, rather.
halonone 1 month ago
KC, for me chess is 95% about winning. We often talk of "battles" and "wars".The openings that you suggest are dull are others studies. As you know, their favourite positions are as valid as yours. When I played competitive pool I used to dread the tacticle (dull) players, but took great pleasure in beating them (at their game, or by potting them off the table). The will to win at almost any cost is often said to be the difference between the "good" and the "great"; think Mac Enroe or Botham.
RoyalPython100 1 month ago
When I lose I judge my performance as being not very good. When I win I judge my opponent's performance as being not very good. That is one bad attitude I've got.
Generally, I think, feeling badly or the emotion of regret is a mechanism that is suppose to prevent us from making the same kind of mistake over and over. So regret is a good emotion.
I'd be interested in your view about how you handle winning too.
ledgeleaper 1 month ago
@kingscrusher Chess is the game of kings for a reason, it's not about winning all the time. The purpose of chess is to teach you to fight until the end and to lose with honour. We will never always be the best, but we will always be the best we can be. When I lose a game I simply remember the words of a great champion: "That's chess, you know. One day you give a lesson, the next day your opponent gives you a lesson." - Bobby Fischer
EClein2 1 month ago
After losing play against a much lower rated opponent for a few games. Also accuse the winner of cheating. Maybe check his ratings in the shorter time controls. See how many of his moves follow engine moves... that sort of thing... to justify your lose.
j25ack 1 month ago 2
In some ways if you don’t feel a little disheartened then that in itself is a bad thing. Playing for fun is all well and good but I think we all recognise that it’s more fun to win than to lose. The discouragement upon losing is often a motivator to examine one’s performance; review the theory as well as one’s own style of play and, hopefully, improve next time. Often it’s the fear of failing that leads people to become better players. Maybe that’s just me being competitive though... ;)
omniscientsnowman42 1 month ago
I am a 1948 USCF rated player and I lost a game to a 1521 last week. Of course I was upset, but I was surprised to not feel any anger towards my opponent, or to myself afterwards. I simply overlooked something in the main line and I was punished quite badly. I kind of overplayed the poisition and was too careless. BUT I LEARNT SOMETHING! And that is what really counts.
meliihhh 1 month ago
I also think it cant help you if you suffer hard from losses, you do more you to avoid them. More preperations, calculating more at the board.
Pohjanpoika13 1 month ago
I really suffer when I lose. But is it possible to get away from if u care about the game? Isent there some parralel between how much u enjoy winning and how much u suffer when u lose? I would guess the only way to be okey with losing is if you dont really care about chess. If you are improving and are studying hard to do so, i think its not possible to avoid the suffering. The only cure is another win, the problem is that its hard to sit down and play another game if u spent 3-4 h n are angry.
Pohjanpoika13 1 month ago
losing in 15 min games is fine by me.
Losing 2 hour+ games would be pretty brutal...
Franchan10 1 month ago
I think here applies the law of life "there´s always someone better or stronger than you", but We all have seen your videos and we all know you are a tough player, if for instance you weigh your losses and wins i´m sure you´d have a pretty good balance. ANd there´s no known way to cope with losing, all the GM´S like Carlsen, Anand, when they lost, they all got really mad.. When Kasparov lost against Vishy Anand He was pissed.
sonnycrafty 1 month ago
There are two kinds of people in the world, those who are "self-actualized," and those who are not. I've played competitive video games (strategy-based), and I was at one time, in one of them, one of the top 10 highest rated players. Some players "rage" and cannot handle a loss, but I also chose to align myself with teammates who are "self-actualized."
jmcqueen3 1 month ago
thanks by the way Kingscrusher for greatly improving my chess and giving me many hours of entertainment
TheGuyarcher 1 month ago
Thanks kingscrusher for a subject on which Im an expert.I don,t play chess faster than 15 minute time control but have come to the conclusion that the more dynamic and complex the game the more calculation it needs to make sure a counter attack is not going to over run me. I guess that also means that longer time controls should be more complex. I think blitz chess is about time management and stopping to think more at critical points of the game,but I guess this applies to any time control.
TheGuyarcher 1 month ago
@Kingcrusher - with regards to Karpov playing like a fish - I htink tis true in all sports that you get the exciting - crowd pleasing - style on one hand and then perhaps a more "intellectual" b ut less emotive style on the other. Which is better can fluctuate. I'm very much into motor racing and the contrasting styles between Button and Hamilton make an interesting comparison. Also in boxing you get the hitters and the boxers. Whose to say which is best though!?.
GarySlegg 1 month ago
Thats what the resign button is for. I'm always frustrated with losing games that I should have won rather than the games that I was crushed. I look at chess games.com and ALL the greatest players to have played the game have recorded loses. That makes me feel better when I do lose because Im always in good company with the world best players. Enjoy the game for what it is...a game
Cigarzrule 1 month ago
One thing about playing on the Internet is that you dont have to look into the eyes of your adversary, look at there emotions whether winning or losing. Ratings are not important. Play abunch of higher rated players and your rating takes a hit,. Thats what is nice about auto pairing. Lost a bunch of game via mouse slip or premoves. All in good fun though. Win lose or draw just click on next game and dont sweat it. There are more important things in life than worring about the results of a GAME.
Cigarzrule 1 month ago
@Cigarzrule This is a good point - sometimes I do find the OTB glaring of some opponents a bit annoying. There are many facets of OTB play that simply don't exist in online chess - and one has to be able to handle those as well - and maybe not give away too much information from one's emotional expressions, like "I just horrifically blundered - Oh dear!" written all over one's face.
kingscrusher 1 month ago
People dont like losing because we all dream of being number 1 someday.
henryparsnip 1 month ago
@henryparsnip I don't even dream of being an FM - I just like doing chess videos and causing big debates likes this one. Haha :)
kingscrusher 1 month ago 2
I cant handle the the feeling of winning sometimes.
henryparsnip 1 month ago
"You may learn much more from a game you lose than from a game you win. You will have to lose hundreds of games before becoming a good player". - Jose Capablanca
kingscrusher 1 month ago 2
"Don't be afraid of losing, be afraid of playing a game and not learning something." - Dan Heisman
kingscrusher 1 month ago 2
Hi all, I have put some stuff in the description of this video - a link to some quotations about losing. Also, some of my latest thoughts posted on reddit. Also two links to two relevant reddit threads. This is a very interesting topic indeed, and I wonder now why I didn't raise this clearly basic chess issue earlier on the channel!
kingscrusher 1 month ago
It's as simple as it looks! Nobody likes to lose! But if you really want to enjoy it the game should go to strange paths where chaos will occur and are called to deal with! In essence face your fears! The path that leads to heart of this wonderful game as only difficulty is the fear of defeat!Just embarked on a path......
strangepippis 1 month ago
@strangepippis Just as long as it is other people's losses I'm looking at to learn from, that's absolutely fine what you said. Shaving on other people's faces is a key skill to evolve to minimise one's personal losses, and just learn from everyone else's instead. Haha :)
kingscrusher 1 month ago
The way to handle this and many other irrational emotions, is to understand that things are what they are, and nothing more. A loss is a loss, but you are not a loser simply because you lost a game. When you lose, when you compare the cost of losing with the payout of learning a lesson and gaining experience, you will find out it was a bargain. Never define yourself based on any failure, for how you feel is how you are! In this line of thinking, defining yourself on your IDEALS is far superior!
thegreatsolar 1 month ago
I have not lost since I started using an engine
j25ack 1 month ago
When a player is frustrated by his losses in Poker we call this going on tilt and is more likely to make bad decisions based on emotions rather than logic. The players in chess that play dull systems are likely playing either with the goal of averting their losses (since they will take a loss much worse than they will a win) or maybe their goal is to just play what they believe is theoretically correct to give them the best expectation of a result for the game.
MrEnterShikariFan 1 month ago
Hi, I play poker for a living and quite a lot of what you discussed in the video is common in Poker. There is a cognitive bias called loss aversion where we take our losses much worse than we do our wins. If a player is winning he is likely to play more cautiously to protect his winnings and conversely if he is losing he is likely to play more aggressively to chase his losses.
MrEnterShikariFan 1 month ago
I've learned that the more you know about the game, the harder it becomes to withstand losing a won game. When you lose by a beautiful tactical combination or a flashy sacrifice, then it's OK, i guess. When you lose an already lost endgame, it's also ok. But losing a won game.. gosh that hurts! I wish i could give you any tips. I usually have trouble sleeping the night after, thinking variations in my head, and keep repeating "how on earth did i miss that? it was so obvious...."
amodelchucrut 1 month ago
Isn't beating your opponent to a pulp considered a good way to handle a loss.
blackbtty123 1 month ago
Honestly, losing theoretically won games or botching the opening and losing a pawn are the most painful losses. If I fight well in the endgame and end up getting positionally outsmarted then fine, though losing to obvious tactics is extremely annoying.
andrewh817 1 month ago
I just smile, shake the opponent's hand, and go outside and get some fresh air. I usually tell myself that even though I lost this time I can always set the pieces up again for another game.
junkyjuice21 1 month ago
I only play chess for fun & thus I never use sound openings esp after reading clyde nakamura's search for dragons & mythical creatures. Plus, there is gm on youtube that used to post polar bear opening f4, which I adore. Personally I developed a unique black Nh6 for the sake of fun. As u can imagine I lose a lot...I've learned to put learning in front of pride. I do wish there were youtube channels for unorthodox chess.
showtime6776 1 month ago
I'm not a very good player. My USCF rating is 1870 or something. I try to play solidly if I can because there is no fun to lose too early. An "exciting loss" in the opening means you never got a chance to try a play an equal or better endgame. So it's not just about losing points. As for the psychology, I don't sleep very well. I know I should take it easier but I can't. It's part of the game. You're not outrun or outjumped, you're outsmarted. That's way more painful. No way around it.
radiofreevillage 1 month ago
Great video. The message speaks to me as an aspiring jazz musician.
BoxCubeSquare 1 month ago
most of us are wired to be competitive it's our nature ,when I'm at the top of my rating (that is still rubbish ,lols ) I feel good about myself ,I know it's silly, but hay I'm only human .
sausage4mash 1 month ago
I personally get a bit frustrated when I'm on a losing streak. I guess we all do. Although I lose a lot of the time when I'm on strict time controls, or make quick, often silly moves due to time pressure.
GordonChess 1 month ago
when examining openings and variations etc our emotions are mostly detached so that come an actual game we can forget what we saw and lose as a result; only w/ the bitter taste of ashes in our mouths do we subsequently remember .. defeat is visceral, it helps us remember, is the most effective teacher, serves our eventual success
AlanWattParrot 1 month ago in playlist More videos from kingscrusher
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I think that in such situations we must not lose sight of the fact that chess is a subset of life and not the opposite. Simply focus for a moment on other aspects of your life such as your friends, your family. Take a deep breath and let go the disappointment. Try to divide the competitive aspect of the game from the artistic one.
ArtinArt 1 month ago
I think the more investment in terms of study I put in, the more I'd hate to lose. Not really sure of the answer, because it's been a few months since I've played after someone used an engine on me. I still love chess and will get back into it. There is also the frustration of the hitting a platue and not seeming to be able to move past it or see more noticable improvement that is demoralizing. Frankly, I think you handle your loses well and I've always admired that when I hear how calm y ou
7777Ralph 1 month ago
After I watched this video I gave it a bit of thought, and the solution I thought of was to just tell myself over and over during the game that I was probably going to lose, that I was certainly going to lose, so that when I lose, it's no big deal since I expected it anyway. I tried doing this in a few five minute games and it seemed pretty effective. I think it helps to be negative also because you're more aware of the vulnerabilities in your position and are less likely to make oversights.
OneSixBillionth 1 month ago
This video explains to me why I stopped playing chess seriously. I was spending a lot of time and money improving my game, and then getting rather upset that I kept losing to people I was better than.
powerchess20002000 1 month ago
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@powerchess20002000 If you lose to them you can't be better. First rule to improve.
ArtinArt 1 month ago
indeed an interesting game is what its all about. surely no one has ever played one interesting game 1 after another without let-up ad-infinitum. intersesting games are by their nature dual edged.
llipvo 1 month ago
I think I suffer psychologically after I lose a good game, even if I try to treat the game as trivial. In my online chess I try to ignore my rating, however I would like to reach 2000 at some stage and I realize that I can't yet maintain a good enough performance, and so I can tell myself that I don't know enough about the game or that maybe my opponent cheated etc, I still believe in my own ability however I know that other people are much smarter in certain fields etc.
ddavyCn 1 month ago
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ddavyCn 1 month ago
IMHO I feel that there's a psichological factor to bear in mind when asking ourselves what type of game do we want. You lost an ammount of games last session, due to the weaknesses you created in your own side of the board, still, in all games there's was a time in which winning seemed plausible, and that might not happen if you play too solid a game. Coping with defeat is almost difficult, so as long as you don't feel you actually lost time at it, it shouldn't bother you...cheeers!
selfoe 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
nice vid, when you have time check my chess vids out, also if you like fifa 12 vids go check my other channel out at theonly1amigo
shay3town 1 month ago in playlist Uploaded videos
When you were talking about how people play boring games to avoid losing I had to disagree. Personally I don't find tactical attacking games fun at all. I like nothing more that a quiet positional game were there are a lot of subtle maneuvers required. I am just saying that people don't always play things like the London system just for fear of losing but some people actually enjoy those types of positions.
Kasparovwannabe 1 month ago
I never lose any game, I just dissconnect.
xxxIronLeexxx 1 month ago
@xxxIronLeexxx You're an asshole then
andrewh817 1 month ago
@andrewh817 But you're a faggot.
xxxIronLeexxx 1 month ago
When I lose I buy a new dog
sodayodadude1 1 month ago
Let's face it. Wether u online or not u to win
klevdav 1 month ago
Well I just study the position and try not flooded in that same position too often
klevdav 1 month ago
can play and enjoy chess, anyone can be part of the conversation. So more and more I take a breather after my games and remind myself that, like you said, we're not professionals. We still get to eat at the end of the day. Instead of being burnt after a loss, we should appreciate the great conversation that we're a part of - perhaps by going back to our favorite puzzles or games. And if greats like Ivanchuk and Tal could lose gracefully, then what egos we must have to think we can't!
mraxeguy 1 month ago
@mraxeguy Yes there is a "conversation" about latest games, classic games, and even opening theory among many other things. I guess when you find you misplayed an opening you can look up all relevant games, and be more part of the "theoretical opening conversation" which goes through time, and ends up being those win/draw/loss stats you get in online databases.
kingscrusher 1 month ago
Kingscrusher, I've been watching your videos for years now. I remember the first one I saw, on the Luzhin Defense Puzzle. I'm absorbed by chess now, and I feel absolutely crushed when I lose some games. But that video reminds me why I started playing chess so much to begin with: it's a beautiful world and I love being part of the conversation! When I talk to my clubmates about famous games, puzzles, and openings, it fascinates me because we all experience and appreciate similar things. Anyone
mraxeguy 1 month ago
thumbs up if you thumb up someone's comment just because he says thumbs up.
Bestchessmind 1 month ago
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Bestchessmind 1 month ago
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Actually sometimes I'm a bit sadistic (revenge?), and I handle it trying to make the other make a blunder and loose after getting the advantage. There's nothing worst than when you loose with advantage :P
Anyway, it's a really complicated game, everybody makes blunders and you are gonna win an loose a lot of games.... so I just accept that I can't change it and move on playing and trying to enjoy it.
ShedarK 1 month ago
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ShedarK 1 month ago
Personally I curse and swear and wish death on all of humanity. I hope that helps. ;)
DerivedEnergy 1 month ago 9
@DerivedEnergy Have you considered an alternative therapy like going through the Super GM tournaments recently and checking out all the losses of players over 2700 to realise that even if you were astronomically stronger than you are now, you could still lose several games in the same tournament. Just a thought anyway :)
kingscrusher 1 month ago 5
@kingscrusher I like you man. Superior chess player; great analysis; a good sense of humour and a lively and enthusiastic tone of voice. In Indonesia and Bolivia people still play chess on the side of the road. In England expressing that you have a passion for chess is like admitting you have a dirty and sordid little secret.
DerivedEnergy 1 month ago
My 3 reasons for playing, despite sucking: 1. It's competetive. Ego. 2. It's a challenging puzzle, and a joy to solve. Why do people enjoy any kind of puzzle - or puzzle-game? The most satisfying games are those won via a truly insightful attack, with the rare queen sacrifice (esp. if it's not in a directly mate forcing combination) being the pinnacle of that. 3. Related to #2, chess is a beautiful game. I even enjoy it when I lose not by my blunders or time, but by my opponent's excellence.
VeryEvilPettingZoo 1 month ago
(cont)
It's when those reasons for playing fail that it becomes unpleasant to lose. I go board blind at least once a game - commonly an entire opening or mid game spent winning material or positional advantage, only to blunder away an entire piece. Most of my losses (I play weak players online) are on time or egregious blunders. For me, the pain of losing is frustration at my own failures of mental disipline. It's like I'm spotting my opponent a few pawns if not an entire peice with every game.
VeryEvilPettingZoo 1 month ago
(cont)
So I'd say, despite having an ego, I know I'm not a good player, and don't really get too down about losing per se. It's the MANNER in which I lose that can spoil the game. When I play well, really play my best, it doesn't bother me to lose. In fact, I often enjoy losing to superior play, because the dire situation I find myself in often prompts my best and most insightful play - and that's what makes the game satisfying.
VeryEvilPettingZoo 1 month ago
@VeryEvilPettingZoo Yes that is very noble - but I would rather experience excellence in those brilliant classic games which are not to do with me losing. But rather those most collected "immortal games". Because then I don't lose nights of sleep with painful agony, regret, rewriting of "My system", learning tonnes more theory, or resenting having to play another game any time soon. Just kidding. No but seriously I have heard the expression "Learn to shave on someone else's face" - master games
kingscrusher 1 month ago
@kingscrusher
The bulk of my reply is in a PM, but regarding "learning by shaving on someone else's face": that's certainly wise, but can only go so far. If you ever meet a master of a musical instrument - or any skill or talent - you'll no doubt discover that they read and study a lot. But overwhelmingly, you'll find that they practice & play (as in, play around). (You obviously do this.) We're human beings, and hands-on is our primary & indispensible mode of learning/improving at everything.
VeryEvilPettingZoo 1 month ago
Hi KC I think the one thing were all are after is excitement and to create our own mona lisa's......
To create something you can be proud of. And when you do create such a game... you get that warm and fuzzy feeling inside......anyway I do.
houtkop2000 1 month ago
I am not a FIDE-player, but the worst losses comes after knowing that the opponent have made more than one blunder, and still get away with a win.
gunuffimoo 1 month ago in playlist Uploaded videos
@gunuffimoo Yes but you have to be careful how you identified these "blunders". If it's from engine post mortem analysis, you need to remember Engines play at like 3200 strength, and so their "punishment" of blunders is difficult to server out. Instead often it is "easier to play" postions that maybe your best way of "punishing" opponent's blunders.
kingscrusher 1 month ago
Honestly I'd be happy to see you post more videos of your losses. I have always viewed losing as the best motivator to gain skill. The key is not to get frustrated!
Teeseff 1 month ago
@Teeseff Yes, I try and post all my games now - especially online - as I mentioned it is the commentary which is the key really from this channel's perspective. But for the ordinary player, there surely must be other aspects of win/loss independence that make the game worth playing. Fun of the game/ Content of the game / Learning experience, etc.
kingscrusher 1 month ago
the worst thing as well is...the better you get at something the more painful the defeats become, because you feel ur closer to making real progress, a real breakthrough...you once walloped me in a two-minute game on chesscube, which i enjoyed because i knew i was playing a much stronger player, and i was just glad to last 40 moves without blundering too badly...i doubt u would have enjoyed it if ud lost! similarly kasparov wouldnt enjoy losing a simul game to you!
fullspeccydominance 1 month ago in playlist Uploaded videos
@fullspeccydominance Yes, I guess I was more gutted than usual from my last loss because it came after two wins.. however objectively I was very lucky in those two wins, so I am not really sure if I made "real progress" after all. Perhaps losses do bring one closer to earth, and wins encourage a false confidence. Really even in our wins, we probably play quite a lot of blunders from an engine perspective nearly every game.
kingscrusher 1 month ago
@kingscrusher i dont think we can realistically expect progress to be an upward curve...there are going to be multiple setbacks and peaks and troughs...personally for me i think you are a very strong 'ideas' player, perhaps not as accurate as someone like chessexplained, but ive learnt a lot from watching your games and listening to your ideas...ive improved about 200 chesscube rating points since ive been watching ur channel nearly made it to 2000 and its definitely not merely due to experience
fullspeccydominance 1 month ago in playlist Uploaded videos
@fullspeccydominance Yes, actually I noticed many losses in a row, when revisiting "My system" by Nimzovich a few years back. It occured to me that actually I needed to distinguish theoretical weaknesses from "exploitable weaknesses". And this can often be the immediate symptom of any abstract middlegame chess book - that the concepts dangling in one's head don't match the requirements and "exploitable elements" of the positions one finds oneself in when actually playing.
kingscrusher 1 month ago in playlist Uploaded videos
@kingscrusher yes, i have noticed that you're a very 'conceptual' player, i think much more than most people, its quite evident from your commentaries...which personally i think is great, because i do tend to simply look at details of the position and try to find the best move or the immediate dangers / opportunities...this is why ur channel is a very valuable resource particularly to beginners or intermediate players
fullspeccydominance 1 month ago
@kingscrusher in terms of exploitable / long-term weakenesses...i think this is the great skill of a very strong player, the simple ability to be able to assess who stands better...no-one has mastered it completely you just have to make small steps...i think weve all played games where weve spent the whole game trying to overcome some small nagging weakness that we either overlooked or underestimated, as have stronger players than you or i!
fullspeccydominance 1 month ago
you can never overcome the pain of losing...this is one of the crazy things about sport; the pain of losing is far greater than the joy of winning...if you hear really successful sportsmen, particularly footballers talk, who have won loads of trophies, they will often say that the crucial defeats stay with them much longer than the victories...its something about the human condition to strive to create, to achieve something, you could argue that its particularly part of the male psyche
fullspeccydominance 1 month ago in playlist Uploaded videos
@fullspeccydominance Well I feel particularly bad for those that have do the penalty shootouts in the World cup. Because those shootouts aren't really part of the game, and there seems to be an element of luck in how the Goalkeeper anticipates to go left/right or stay in the center. Especially assuming others before the penalty taker got theirs in the back of the net.
kingscrusher 1 month ago
@kingscrusher there is definitely an element of luck but also an element of nerve, and its something you have to prepare for, i suppose an analogous situation would be blitz tie-breaks in a classical chess tournament...its disappointing to lose that way but you know the rules before you begin
fullspeccydominance 1 month ago in playlist Uploaded videos
Kramnik talks in his Chessbase DVD about how having a "loser mentality" has helped him in critical games. That is to really prepare oneself for all the _benefits_ of losing. You learn something from it, you have less pressure and expectations for your next game, you can value life outside of chess more. This obviously doesn't suit everyone but it helps me a lot. I perform much better when I can distance myself from the fear of losing and concentrate on the position, not the result.
mattiassollerman 1 month ago
@mattiassollerman Yes, from the perspective of this channel I fear having dry dull games and especially having quick agreed draws. Except occaisonally I play slightly higher rated players, and it is in the Herts league which has adjournments or adjoudications in which case I am more attempted to agree a draw if possible - especially if the team can win the match.
kingscrusher 1 month ago
Very interesting video. I lose all the time, because at ECF 177, I'm crap at chess!
northlondonguitarist 1 month ago
@northlondonguitarist Clearly at that ECF level you are in the top 10% of the rated player population of ECF players. Also you play for one of the strongest clubs in London. However, if you really feel you are "bad" at chess, then maybe that can act to suppress any potential pain of losing, as you lessen expectations. However, win or lose, perhaps it is good to always do post-mortems to learn stuff from any game result.
kingscrusher 1 month ago
@kingscrusher that's very kind, but I really am crap. I've fluked my way to 177.
I agree, of course, about the value of post-mortems
northlondonguitarist 1 month ago
@northlondonguitarist No no no- you are good, and you will suffer lots of pain like the rest of us. No hiding out there in "I'm a bunny" psychology for you. Haha. The expectations are super high for you guitarist to win every game and show your true natural chess talent. Just kidding. Maybe in your other interests, you successfully keep chess "in context" and therefore aren't too bothered about losing.
kingscrusher 1 month ago
@kingscrusher yes, you're correct - chess for me is a way to relax. For example, when I was playing guitar on the BBC, I cared about how I performed - it's my job. When I play chess like a patzer, I don't care too much. It's just a fun, absorbing hobby. But I am a bunny
northlondonguitarist 1 month ago
For me it's all about learning experience. I enjoy a game where I lose and improve because of the experience far more than a game where I win and don't take anything away from the game.
TheZhengmeister 1 month ago
@TheZhengmeister Yes, but Kasparov has also emphasised going over wins too - to learn and innovate against future opponents who will adapt and learn too. Being non-complacent is the key here, to try and elevate the strength of one's play. Doing post-mortems must fit very well into a learner's policy - to go over games regardless of game result - as well as going over master games, and doing puzzles, etc.
kingscrusher 1 month ago
all the best lessons in life are hidden in are failures, including chess! So i guess it goes back to what is the point of life? To gain FIDE points or any other kind of status? Or to enjoy life, enjoy the journey and improve?
I must admit this is much easier in the comments section of youtube than in reality :)
manfredoxyz 1 month ago
Interesting that as a chess amateur playing blitz chess there is the near universal human failing to value a time win in a lost position over playing a very strong positional game and then throwing it away under time pressure.
NickyPomme 1 month ago
@NickyPomme Well online there is also other risks of say cheating - so a win can be seen as a win sometimes, especially when you have to adopt "survival mode" against those choosing to use Engines to win, because their ego is so frail or something that they do anything to try and win. Really online chess isn't that painful to me at all - given it is non policeable and the time investment minimal. In fact, for those that think online chess is "painful", I really think they should also try OTB.
kingscrusher 1 month ago
I quit chess more than 20 years ago, because I hated myself every time I lost a game. About 2 years ago I came across one of your vids and thought: "Well, at least I could watch the game ... No suffering involved." - Well, I'am hooked again and I play online for fun. I still dont like to loose, but it has become bearable.
TheHuginMunin 1 month ago
@TheHuginMunin This is very interesting indeed. I think maybe it could help for detachment purposes to work on a "system" of play - to indeed generalise - and then having something to blame rather than take it too personally. You can blame your generalisations, as opposed to your very ego. Also you can qualify losses based on opening advantage, tiredness, etc. I hope the comments here offer some pointers anyway for handling losses. I think they are already very helpful.
kingscrusher 1 month ago
i bloody hate losing. really wish i didnt. theres nothing you can do about it though i dont think. :(
trixapete 1 month ago
I think you fail to understand that these "boring"openings for you can be very interesting to other more positional players.
bleek18 1 month ago
@bleek18 The "London system" opening example was used to illustrate if some players want to play an opening with the motivation of minimal risk of losing. Positional players are not necessarily risk-averse. Tactical attacking players may consider also that they lose less when they have more tactical games, if they lean the opening towards their strength. A player tries to play an opening to suit their strengths. But the examples I gave were for the motivation of mainly avoiding risk.
kingscrusher 1 month ago
@bleek18 Right on. The only play I find boring is bishop pinning knight in the opening.
jerseyknight 1 month ago
burn the chess board and bu7y a new one
puertoirish 1 month ago
I am grateful for the game and the experience with my opponent.
SuperShamanDotCom 1 month ago
When I lose a rated game in a particularly painful way, what I attempt to do is to just keep playing more games. Enter the next tournament that comes along and try to do well. Getting right back on the horse sort of pushes the loss out of your mind (for the most part.)
bunpeininja 1 month ago
Thank you for your reply. I realized a long time ago; I am a lot more than my rating. My rating does not define me in life. It is important to note when it comes to chess as well as life that I do not see past the choices I make (until after I've made them, hence hindsight is 20/20 sometimes) I play on ICC as rado2009. My rating has been up and down from 1600's to 1932. I make a silly mistake/oversight, I just laugh, congratulate my opponent and move on. See what I can learn from the experience.
jradovich 1 month ago
OMG. This video could not have been uploaded at the most right time for me. Yesterday, it seemed that I was just winning in sequence, playing great, fun games after another. Today, as soon as I started losing, it started going downhill from there. I missed alot of opportunities to mate and end up blundering badly.Then I started losing in sequence to a point where I lost about 70 rating in the 5-min pool. I don't do much long games but I think this can relate. Wins and loss for me are in sequence
Riggzilla 1 month ago
@kingscrusher I know I can't say where ur tendecy to generalize began bc I don't know you, but I think ignorance can be bliss with chess and ur very knowledgable abt concepts, which by nature generalize. Thing is you have to find the right ones for the position - ignorance might not just be bliss, it might inspire good play. I think engines play like children because they don't have experiential biases
LoFidelityBeatz 1 month ago
How I handled loses depended often on rhythm of the loss. Games that were really hard to take were games that got to a critical position and I would do a 10+ minute hard think and then lose. If the game was played at a even pace it was not so bad. One funny thing was my chess results got better when I got older and didn't care as much. The less I cared the better I played to point. The pressure I put myself under was too much in my teens and 20s.
TheBigGuppy 1 month ago
@TheBigGuppy Yes I think I heard that IM Peter Large took up chess professionally and his results apparently got worse. Chess stopped being for fun and creativity. He went back to being an accountant and his chess became more relaxed again - and results apparently improved again.
kingscrusher 1 month ago
I started playing chess at 11 and loved it but my enjoyment slowly decreased until at 18 I almost gave up (I came back after 6 months). Throughout that time my ECF/FIDE was going up but the pain of losing got worse while the joy of victory decreased and I took lots of draws. I put less time into the game now which I think is the difference. Only 2 or 3 tournaments a year and I study far less - if I lose a game I can shrug it off. Good for my enjoyment but not my FIDE which hasn't improved since
tipau 1 month ago
@tipau If you play for a local chess club, most of your "rated games" will not be FIDE rated anyway - they will be rated by your local chess federation. Is FIDE such a big deal anyway, if the greater game sample is with one's local federation?!
kingscrusher 1 month ago
@kingscrusher I play more FIDE rated games than plain ECF games these days but I'm not so bothered by my rating/grade anymore. I would have said my national grade hasn't increased either but it has because everyone got a 15 point bump a couple of years back :) I play now because I enjoy it, of course I'd still like my rating to go up but I'm not prepared to invest as much of my time into doing it as I used to because IMO it's not worth it when the knock backs hurt as much as they used to
tipau 1 month ago
@jradovich great comment
LoFidelityBeatz 1 month ago
Kingscrusher is a strong player but I think the thing he offers to chessplayers is what limits him: by analyzing games and concepts he seems to overwhelm his play at times by being to heavily influenced by that which he educates people on. By being committed to the exploration of these ideas, the amorphous concepts interfere with objective, positional play, with some amazing results and some not so amazing. A good video, I hate losing 2
LoFidelityBeatz 1 month ago
@LoFidelityBeatz I am not sure this is true - my obsession with generalisations began many years before youtube. It just so happens that a generalistic attitude probably does make for instructional videos but such an attitude wasn't formed from Youtube - it was formed from a programmer perspective I think. I don't actually like to view chess as a concrete game - but rather take the Nimzovichian perspective of the existence of "A system". This is more in line with a programmer's perspective.
kingscrusher 1 month ago
Thank you for all your videos. Win or loss is an outcome. I have limited resources to control my environment or the world around me including others. As long as I have applied my resources as fully as I could, including messing up and losing a winning position, I elevate my self above the outcome. Meeting it with grace and poise. I expect nothing and accept everything, using it to learn and grow. "I defeated you" my opponent said. "No, you won." "Only I can defeat my self", I replied.
jradovich 1 month ago
@jradovich Yes just like Computers use Binary - 0 or 1 - we shouldn't see Chess as Binary or three outcomes - but rather the experience of the game itself. As we can look more at the qualitative factors around the game experience, rather than just the binary result. Especially if the binary result (or draw) doesn't really mean anything in particular except maybe a rating adjustment.
kingscrusher 1 month ago
@jradovich Yes I try and take comfort in trying to find my best resources in each game - I always put effort in, except perhaps if really shattered, and it is sort of painful/ too much energy to play.
kingscrusher 1 month ago
Can't really call a position "boring." That is subjective. I enjoy tactics and dynamism but I have a deep appreciation of subtelty and accuracy 2. If I can win a pawn I will try to play like a machine because I really dig Karpov's style. Of course, I'm nothing like Karpov though
LoFidelityBeatz 1 month ago
I think this topic really boils down to the question of how we deal with making mistakes. As a believer into Jesus, I realise that actually I am a fallen human being, the mistakes (losses) just expose what I am intrinsically. However this vision of the self is balanced with the vision of Christ and who He is. I am on the process of seeing and experiencing both, so when I loose at chess I don't look at myself and all my failures and defeats, I look away to Jesus , this wonderful one.
aidanquigley 1 month ago
@aidanquigley Well we could also argue that we are not chess engines. As such, we are bound to miss a tonne of tactical variations every single game we play compared with engines. Even if we did win those games brilliantly - we would still have not seen the huge amount of variations say an Engine would see. Maybe a true perfectionist wouldn't even care about the game result being 0 or 1 or 0.5 - but rather what they saw and didn't see during the game ?!
kingscrusher 1 month ago
There was a commentary below that nails it: being afraid of loosing wether in chess or in life is what prevent from trying to succeed. Its the fear factor. Fact is we only have one life, one try at this, so we better give our heart and soul to the things we want to achieve. We indeed have nothing to loose and everything to gain. Unfortunately it is easier said then done. KC you have the talent, the potential to be a great player, just do it, nothing else matters, loosing is the least of your pr
AzraelAscoli 1 month ago
@AzraelAscoli Well in my case - does fear include the fear of "going round in circles" because I do like to generalise from losses and abstract. But I fear these generalisations are fairly hopeless compared to concrete analysis of concrete positions. And also other concrete factors - the amount of opening theory one knows.. games... endgames, etc.
kingscrusher 1 month ago
@kingscrusher KC this is very much similar to what I face everyday when doing mathematic research: those concrete factors you are talking about are, indeed fundamental, BUT there is a time element attached to them: they take a lot of time to develop. Loss in mathematics could be defined as mistakes in elementary concepts while much complex ones seem to be understood. It the sign that you need to go deeper in your understanding of this particular aspect...
AzraelAscoli 1 month ago
@AzraelAscoli Most of the time, elementary does not mean simple and is the expression of a generalized, hence very complex, object. About 1 year ago I had to redefine my way of working and been applying a new method: I expect that in 4-5 years you might hear my name in the news hehe. And if you do not, the sheer amount of work I am doing will make of me one of the best mathematicians in the world. So its a win win position. We can discuss this in CCube one of these days.
AzraelAscoli 1 month ago
I believe an inability to deal with losses is the number one limiting factor in our improvement as players. Hypnosis could be a good way to overcome these patterns we keep falling into. However, it takes about 20 consecutive sessions to make any real change in our patterns and most people aren't willing to make the commitment. Tracks I find handy are Focus, Concentration and Self Confidence. A track titled Chess Hypnosis is also available, but I'm not sure how useful it would be.
mcgaughp 1 month ago
For me personally, I deal with losing by never investing myself enough to really feel the physic damage of losing. When I lose (57% of the time at 1400) I tell myself it's because I don't practice enough. This is because I'm weak and too afraid to really put my ego on the line. So I really respect you and what you're doing. You push yourself to a level that I will never achieve, and you broadcast it so we can live vicariously through your journey. Fuck the haters, you're only human.
Lazzzyeye 1 month ago 11
The pain may never go away. Look at Ivanchuk's reaction after his recent game against Van Wely: youtube.com/watch?v=7viSTStHMxI (at 0:20) ...mind you: This is not after a loss, but after a draw!!
maltebricht1 1 month ago
@maltebricht1 Honestly I thought that was quite amusing - and shared that Youtube video on the kingscrusher cafe at Cube. If nothing else - such reactions whether they be from Ivanchuk or Kasparov can make good Youtube entertainment. "Why must I draw to this patzer 2600 GM! Bahhh Bahhh"
kingscrusher 1 month ago
I don't care if I win or lose, but I am concerned with maintaining my highest possible level of play. If I am not playing at my best, it is often because of an outside factor in my life. So, I try to first make sure that everything in my life is in good order, so that I can focus and devote myself to playing at my best. When my life is going well, I often play better chess, because I am more motivated and healthy minded. I do get upset at times, but it's more because of outside factors.
WalkerH4O2 1 month ago
Yea, losses are painful. For me, the whole game keeps playing in my head for days. I read somewhere that we learn a lot more from our losses than our wins. After a loss, I take a few days to calm down, then have a look at the game to figure out my mistakes. One things certain, I don't lose the same way twice. :)
baronvictor 1 month ago
Sometimes it is far and away more painful losing in an opening you know well or just losing to a theoretically weaker opponent! BUT what I have learnt over the years is that take the loses for what they are worth, focus on your strengths and limit what risks that were taken that were unjustified. Maybe too aggressive?! Focus on the positive and work on the negative and eventually the negative won't be as bad as it once was... learning from mistakes and approach them unbias and with a clear head
scottie55901 1 month ago
I used to HATE losing to the point I wouldnt play or study chess for weeks, I think I was putting too much of my ego into it. I started playing better when I realized that is just a game and not that important (I guess it takes pressure away and I can evaluate the position objectibly). Also something that allowed me to look at loses as a learning experience is that I develop a opening repertoire that I NEVER deviate from. That way I can keep track of where my mistakes happened in the past.
cuevasdecamuy 1 month ago
@cuevasdecamuy Yes some people in my chess club have a very wide range of interests like Football, Golf, Rugby , Snooker etc - and their competitive portfolio is so diverse as a result. So their potential I guess for ego-damage is severely limited. I guess this might explain why I seem not to care about online ratings - because I care more about OTB ratings. Maybe having a portfolio of competitive interests reduces the ego pressure?!
kingscrusher 1 month ago
@kingscrusher Ego can have a big effect. A good friend of mine would take lossing very badly ( he would bang his head against the wall, and hard) if he lost the first game in a tournament he would usually have a string of losses. Having a different competitive interest could maybe help. Also you may care more about OTB rating because is more personal. Online chess is a detached endeavor. You dont see the opponent or feel him/her.
cuevasdecamuy 1 month ago
@kingscrushe The way I reduced ego damage was by telling myself that chess is a human game and about consistancy,we know very little about it. One day you will play GM strength others like a patzer. Ups n downs are normal and I shouldnt beat myself up for the "downs". downs are more frequent when one is not familiar with the position. GM's know more positions, it brigns me a smile when I hear a titled player say "I have no idea whats going on" losing is discovering which positions you dont know.
cuevasdecamuy 1 month ago
True story: After a string of losses on a bad day I bashed my keyboard so hard some of the keyes stopped working and I had to buy a new one! I have since calmed down and learned to relax and not take my losses so seriously.
menkooomigen 1 month ago
@menkooomigen Yes sometimes I have been really annoyed losing an online game despite claiming the contrary in a lot of my previous comments - and I couldn't upload the video commentary as a result - as the commentary essentially became poor/ angry! So I try and remain calm now when doing live commentaries - as I want to be able to upload! Haha, but this perspective of being calm is good anyway if you are losing at an OTB match etc - you don't want to get a bad rep. of being a really sore loser!
kingscrusher 1 month ago
I cope with it by analysing my psychology as well as the game. I think both are equally important.
From my observation, weak players are often delusional players. In my opinion it's not about coping with "loss", it's about fear to be confronted with your own weakness and limitations.
I try to see every game as an experience. There are no important tournaments, or games I have to win. I Just do my best, every time.
noxure 1 month ago
@noxure Yes good point - I do try and video annotate each game on this channel - especially losses. But maybe I could add more to the psychological angle. In my last game, I remember I wasn't very keen to play that night. My fear is that of going round in circles with generalisations and faults in "kingscrusher - My system" which somehow are not resolvable because chess is a concrete game. And perhaps even with the best principles in the world at one's disposal you can still lose.
kingscrusher 1 month ago in playlist Uploaded videos
I cut myself.
trytosurviveman 1 month ago
For some reason I can't post a link to a YouTube video here, but you'll find lots of interesting stuff if you do a search for his name.
Chesster1400 1 month ago
@Chesster1400 Yes they stop links. If there are any interesting points, please could you try and make them here - it would be great to know some key points just in summary here.
kingscrusher 1 month ago
I have a simple method to deal with the pain of a loss in a tournament. I cut the inside of my thigh with a razor blade. Nobody notices the scars!
brucewallace2 1 month ago
@brucewallace2 Does it make any difference if the opponent was lower or higher rated?! :)
kingscrusher 1 month ago in playlist Uploaded videos
Really depends on my game (initial opening if I am "comfortable" with when playing black), the opponent (stronger or weaker). But on emotional level, I am 80% constructive. I laugh it away and try to find where did my losing begin (if it's not the obvious t.i. blunder). In remaining 20% I call myself a retard and/or a moron. So my reactions are pretty standard, I imagine. :)
OiSuzy55 1 month ago