"Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
Mar 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover."
If I was the Irish guy I would just show up with a bottle of draino and a rattle snake and we could see if these sign"s" are still for today.
thats why in the 1 cor12- 14 say don't be ingnorant about them gifts of the Spirit, it also says that the gifts of the spirit aRE THERE TO PROFIT ALL, SO THERE ARE FALSE PROPHETS BUT THEN ALSO SINCE WE HAVE FALSE ONES WE ALSO HAVE THE TRUE ONE S,the gifts havent cease just like knowlegde hasn't ceased there is more going on these days then in the apostles day,I got healed of colon cancer so one more of the gifts of the Spirit that didn't pass away,
Satan is the father of lies. "Miracles" performed by a false prophet are tricks, not true miracles. A true miracle is from god. A "miracle" wrought by Satan is slight-of-hand, a technological artifice. Nothing more.
Context is very important. In vs 14, Christ reproves 'them' (plural) referring to the eleven apostles who sat at meat for unbelief. Then giving the commission, he refers to 'He (singular) that believes' would be saved (in Vs 15), by vs 16, he goes back to the plural 'them that believe'. Christ was obviously not referring to 'he' namely those who are preached to and are saved, but 'them' meaning the disciples who repent of their unbelief. The signs would follow them (believing apostles).
@eklektos777 the antecendent of them is obviously the "he" spoken of meaning them which believe. It is illogical to say otherwise bcuz vs 15 says that Christ spoke to the 11. He would clearly use the word you and not them when directly addressing them. So christ was letting the 11 know that others would do miracles also.
Only full preterism gives a logical answer to this debate. Clearly, Acts two teaches us that tongues and miracles would take place in the last days. If Angus believes we are in the last days, then he is wrong. If, however, the last days were referring to the last days of the Jewish age, then they have ceased. Also, Ephesians says apostles, prophets, and pastors and teachers are gifts to the church. To say apostles and prophets ceased but not the others is inconsistent. Preterism answers this.
The cessasionist argument really is very weak, and built largley on assumption not scripture i.e. the apparent end of the apostolic era. Can any cessasionist please tell me what scripture refers to this? Also, I think it is very unfair to accuse Pentecostals of 'denying the divinity of Christ'. This really is a baseless statement and insulting to the millions who love Christ as the son of the living God.
Again, you are correct in your assertion concerning another gospel, because if you are not aware of it yet, the Charismatic and Pentecostal movement are now openly denying the Divinity and Godhead of Christ. Also, you may not be aware that many of todays bible translations are editing out all verses concerning Christ's divinity.
I stick to the NKJV because the KJV is a little too old english for me, but the newer translations are a little too watered down in my opinion. But, to say that all Charismatic and Pentecostals are denying the Divinity of Christ, and the Godhead is the most ignorant statement i have heard in a long time. There are people on both sides who are off track, but my church associates closely to the Assemblies of God doctrine (pentecostal) and we do NOT deny Christs divinity or the Godhead.
What one should bear in mind is that if what this Pentecostal preacher is saying correct, then he is officially stating that all Christendom, from since its conception up to this present time, has never "believed"! This explains why they naturally move on to that other false doctrine, the second blessing. In other words, a person is not saved unless they demonstrate some outward sign. Again, a matter which leads to may other compound heresies.
Indeed. Since they rely so much on Mk. 16:17-18 to prove that the signs are for "them that believe" on the Gospel message, they also have to take up this language of the "full" gospel of Christ + Pentecost. However, NO instance where the Gospel is defined, particularly 1Cor. 15:1-8, includes the events of Pentecost. None. They are preaching another gospel.
Just because some people are not operating fully in Christ, and the gifts, does not mean they are not saved. I could be saved, and never grow as a Christian, and never accept and operate in any gifts. That does not mean that the spiritual gifts are not from God.
yes i agree the UPC does the same things,, how can both be right ?
GENODELMAROATL 1 month ago
i agree wit angus stewart ...
Erap1muzik 3 months ago
Matt. 7:21-23 is specifically targeting Pentecostals. The 3 arguments given there are pentecostal characteristics-and none other.
1cor14 8 months ago
Sorry to type this out but I really believe Calvinsim are narrow minded people.
Please let the bible speak> Mark 16:15-18
Taiwobabs 9 months ago
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"Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
Mar 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover."
If I was the Irish guy I would just show up with a bottle of draino and a rattle snake and we could see if these sign"s" are still for today.
saintjhull911 1 year ago
thats why in the 1 cor12- 14 say don't be ingnorant about them gifts of the Spirit, it also says that the gifts of the spirit aRE THERE TO PROFIT ALL, SO THERE ARE FALSE PROPHETS BUT THEN ALSO SINCE WE HAVE FALSE ONES WE ALSO HAVE THE TRUE ONE S,the gifts havent cease just like knowlegde hasn't ceased there is more going on these days then in the apostles day,I got healed of colon cancer so one more of the gifts of the Spirit that didn't pass away,
blessedwithoutmeasur 1 year ago
Satan is the father of lies. "Miracles" performed by a false prophet are tricks, not true miracles. A true miracle is from god. A "miracle" wrought by Satan is slight-of-hand, a technological artifice. Nothing more.
daBlackBaron13 1 year ago
The false does not disprove the true. Don't rob yourself of what God is doing!
TheProfessorEnglish 1 year ago
Context is very important. In vs 14, Christ reproves 'them' (plural) referring to the eleven apostles who sat at meat for unbelief. Then giving the commission, he refers to 'He (singular) that believes' would be saved (in Vs 15), by vs 16, he goes back to the plural 'them that believe'. Christ was obviously not referring to 'he' namely those who are preached to and are saved, but 'them' meaning the disciples who repent of their unbelief. The signs would follow them (believing apostles).
eklektos777 1 year ago
@eklektos777 the antecendent of them is obviously the "he" spoken of meaning them which believe. It is illogical to say otherwise bcuz vs 15 says that Christ spoke to the 11. He would clearly use the word you and not them when directly addressing them. So christ was letting the 11 know that others would do miracles also.
godapproved 7 months ago
Jesus despises the lawless. Keep God's law people, and that includes the fourth!
cornerstone111 1 year ago
Only full preterism gives a logical answer to this debate. Clearly, Acts two teaches us that tongues and miracles would take place in the last days. If Angus believes we are in the last days, then he is wrong. If, however, the last days were referring to the last days of the Jewish age, then they have ceased. Also, Ephesians says apostles, prophets, and pastors and teachers are gifts to the church. To say apostles and prophets ceased but not the others is inconsistent. Preterism answers this.
wardfenley 3 years ago
I don't know how this can be called a debate. This debate seems to be 2 against 1 with no real moderator.
CindyBelindy61 3 years ago
The cessasionist argument really is very weak, and built largley on assumption not scripture i.e. the apparent end of the apostolic era. Can any cessasionist please tell me what scripture refers to this? Also, I think it is very unfair to accuse Pentecostals of 'denying the divinity of Christ'. This really is a baseless statement and insulting to the millions who love Christ as the son of the living God.
paul1847 4 years ago
I am a Catholic and I have friends who are penticostal. I can tell you that I have witnessed they do not deny the divinity of Christ.
havock89 3 years ago
Again, you are correct in your assertion concerning another gospel, because if you are not aware of it yet, the Charismatic and Pentecostal movement are now openly denying the Divinity and Godhead of Christ. Also, you may not be aware that many of todays bible translations are editing out all verses concerning Christ's divinity.
puritanofgrace 4 years ago
I think you may have mixed up pentecostals with oneness pentecostals, who deny the Trinity (modalism)
naturalsystah 3 years ago
I stick to the NKJV because the KJV is a little too old english for me, but the newer translations are a little too watered down in my opinion. But, to say that all Charismatic and Pentecostals are denying the Divinity of Christ, and the Godhead is the most ignorant statement i have heard in a long time. There are people on both sides who are off track, but my church associates closely to the Assemblies of God doctrine (pentecostal) and we do NOT deny Christs divinity or the Godhead.
tcap8055 2 years ago
wat a stupid statement u have made...im a pentecostal and surrounded by many pentecostals and non of us denyed the divinity and godhead of Christ
yari718 2 years ago
What one should bear in mind is that if what this Pentecostal preacher is saying correct, then he is officially stating that all Christendom, from since its conception up to this present time, has never "believed"! This explains why they naturally move on to that other false doctrine, the second blessing. In other words, a person is not saved unless they demonstrate some outward sign. Again, a matter which leads to may other compound heresies.
puritanofgrace 4 years ago
Indeed. Since they rely so much on Mk. 16:17-18 to prove that the signs are for "them that believe" on the Gospel message, they also have to take up this language of the "full" gospel of Christ + Pentecost. However, NO instance where the Gospel is defined, particularly 1Cor. 15:1-8, includes the events of Pentecost. None. They are preaching another gospel.
mothcorrupteth 4 years ago
Just because some people are not operating fully in Christ, and the gifts, does not mean they are not saved. I could be saved, and never grow as a Christian, and never accept and operate in any gifts. That does not mean that the spiritual gifts are not from God.
tcap8055 2 years ago 2