I hear the words "might" and "can" in many places, and it's always there in order to motivate the people by scaring them.
I am definitely for the open-source, but don't forget, that there are people, who dislike the computers in the first place, and there are people who prefer to pay, rather than to learn.
To those people, Windows, and other proprietary software, will be better than open source, until someone, or something manages to convince them otherwise.
ive learned that windows is basically for old people, and individuals that have been blinded by "what sells best" way of thinking...the only reason that windows sells more each year is because, 1 it doesn't feel like a computer anymore, its like a moving picture 2....come on it mo Fin microsoft they'v been successful for a long time and will always be.... the difference is.....the ease of use...stability for attractiveness...fun for performance...me.. i prefer osx lolz "neutral parrrrtay" woot!
i do agree with the updates/security pts.... "Easy to learn" is relative to the person.. For a best buy pc buyer, im going to bet its on the hard side...
This guys mentality is why linux will never gain huge traction in the consumer market... In his mind the consumer is always wrong... If the consumer doesnt want to have to install tons of shit to get basic functionality like MP3 playback and a working audio chipset, then you shouldn't have to. Remember, were talking about "best buy pc customers".
@Spliffer45 You do understand the difference between having the OEM install everything for you (which is what was going on with the Dells they were selling) and someone installing linux themselves right? Gotta love how you have a big mouth but all you can do is say the same kind of ignorant shit hahaha
@Spliffer45 No, that's not what he's saying. Maybe you should watch the first part of this. Micro$oft has made training material for Best Buy employees that encourages them to discourage customers from having Linux put on their machines. He's saying what bullshit that is to use a...slander/libel campaign to make Linux look bad to the everyday user. Of course, I thought his intent was pretty clear, but, I guess there are those with heads harder than my own :)
@richlaue Yes, MS does take's it's sweet time to fix things but was the flash problem something adobe did thru bad programming (ie a buffer overrun, a memory leak, a stack problem) and microsoft had to go in and pick up the pieces? I don't blame that one completely on microsoft.
Most end users don't even know what an ISO file is let alone how to burn one. How many of you get call from relatives with a tech problem, and all you do is reset the router? happened to me thanksgiving.
Sad as it is, I agree with question 3. It is a myth that Linux is easy to learn and that it will "meet customer expectation." The problem with that particular question is that (a) no operating system is easy to learn...though the GUI environment/window manager (ie: Windows, KDE, Gnome, etc.) might be easy to learn, and (b) meeting expectations is extraordinarily difficult to do with Linux when customers are expecting Windows. It's very clever wording.
@nychold not only that, the customer does not expect to have to drop down to a command line or terminal window to set up codecs to play dvd's. Windows just supports more hardware and if it doesn't the vendor gives you a driver. No command line needed. Average users don't want to use a terminal window, ever. And even DEVO85X is having hardware problems.... Ubuntu didn't like his mother board (audio in doesn't work).... Had to do his vid in windows.... That makes a loud point!
@mrRhwalden Sad thing is, I love Linux, but it just can't do a lot of things that the average user wants or needs. Final cut pro (or even imovie) vs [your fav video editor in linux]? nope, not even close. Video editing is the current "killer" app and linux, sadly falls short.
If it keeps up, a type of Linux or unix will replace Windows. And then it become Windows, and then it will turn out to be as bad as Wiindows (unless it doesn't follow suit in copycatting, third world exploiting, money and mokery making, and doesn't already have those sneaky gits after money and watering the whole thing down to profit and protect).
But regardless, the other "scum" out there will exploit it anyway.
There are prrof of concept viruusses for Linux. The reasons they do not spread are many. But one of them is, it is not easy to make an automatic installing file without it asking for root password. And if it does, and you didn't ask for the file yourself, well... kill it.
In Windows you just hit OK to UAC, and for the user, this is just the same as clikcing OK to an information box. They will not have the slighest idea that they are elevating rights and why.
It takes 3 clicks to setup an everyday user account. And the security model behind Linux is very documented. So it works. In the initial installation, Windows is not safer. Compare these facts:
1. Installing through SoftwareCenter, you know there are no malware in the apps
2. This also does that the system can keep track of every app and their updates - automatically
3. You are not gained root access without password in Linux. In Windows you just have to press OK??? Wow! how secure!
@8jwong14 Windows does not have Pros. It has market share. That is all. If you take away your own biases (including the network effect and normalcy bias), GNU/Linux is a much better Operating System than Windows will ever be. Where you're pointing for reasons is known as the network effect (bias). It means that something is popular because it is popular. Products like this often have no merits beyond that.
@amdphreak Yeah. Most of the pros of Windows is because of market share not because it is a superior system. Games can be on Linux but companies don't make them that way because Windows has a bigger market share. But for now, Windows still dominates in software availability and variety due to its market share. That's what I meant to say.
All of Window's pros are due solely to its market share not its quality. If Linux had all the software WIndows had, it would be so much more popular.
@8jwong14 yes but it's a chicken and egg thing. Developers need to eat and pay bills. If some of us in the community would be willing to pay for software and not always insist that it be open source, then maybe we would have more choices. It's not just market share, at the end of the day, it's where can money be made. Prove to the developers that there is money to be made and they will come. Apple had a sliver of market share for years but awesome software was still written for that platform
@mrRhwalden In my opinion though. Developers can still make money but also release open source software. The way to do this is sell a completely compiled and guarentteed functional version of software but also releae the code too for those who want to take the time and effort toi compile it. Most average users would most likely still go with downloading the already compiled and functional software instead of having to take effort to compile it.
@8jwong14 Yes, but what would stop someone like microsoft buying a copy, tweak the source and then sell it, and out market the original developer? I don't know about you, but, microsoft's lawyers are bigger then my lawyers. Now, for everyday apps, open source works great but for some "killer app" like a true rival to final cut pro for example, where many, many hours are involved, the open source model just will not work or at least has not so far.
@mrRhwalden The "Open Source model" currently is and has been for a while 'working', and the pioneers have already solved this issue... the source code of these projects DO have a License. The method is called 'copy-left'. Look up GPL if your interested, note this is only one of many license's used. And developers DO make money from it, by selling support to the users. Look up Red Hat Enterprise Linux, one very successful company in open source.
@Diabolist11 The open source model; giving the software away and charging for support, is not working on the Home Desktop. The home desktop is what this discussion is about, isn't it? Have you ever called customer support for a game? How about Gimp? Open office, or Libra office? If you are like me, you hit google and the forums. Charging for support works with servers and mission critical, but not with the desktop for the home user. Red hat is not interested in the home desktop.
@Diabolist11 Copy left, still doesn't stop Microsoft from tweaking the code a bit and then out marketing and throwing money at lawyers. Microsoft has proven itself inherently evil in this regard. It's very easy to hide someone else source code in your own project. Then close the source. If anyone here has programed you know what I'm talking about. You can't really copyright, copyleft or patent an equation and that's what most software is.
and Microsoft Windows computers aren't a pain in the crack to upkeep? Right now, while watching this video, i have switched over to my windows partition to scan with kaspersky, which is crap, and right now, im defragging my computer... I have to do this once a week... I have yet to do the same with my Ubuntu or Fedora partitions...
Linux is the easyest to udate window just opens when a new update is avaible and u just click on update and it will do its thing. xD I never update windows because its not good to update windows
I've read the slides and I must admit that these "reasons" against Linux are just complete bullshit. Not any of the "reasons" they mention in the slides is true. And the "real facts" sections don't contain any facts, only just more unproven claims.
This anti-linux "training" is truly the third-worst propaganda I've stumpled upon in my entire life. Unbelievable!
This "quiz" reminds me a bit of stupid MythBusters.
"Microsoft always tells the truth—fact or myth?" :D
@experimental0000 Mac os and linux are safer but only because of market share. Virus authors want to hit the biggest target out there and guess what, that's windows.
I liked the bit about windows being easier to upgrade than linux. Hmm.. every 6 months i can upgrade ubuntu for free. Microsoft charges you money to upgrade, for the privilege of being able to do the same things with higher hardware requirements.... or be left with an unsupported OS. It's nice getting reemed from both ends.
@Greymerk not to mention other than upgrading to a new version of the OS/Distro you don't need to reboot. with Windows it varies on whether you need to reboot or not but more often than not, you need to reboot and the new versions bug you alot to reboot. I like not having to in Linux while still having the changes take affect, more uptime. Windows is also overpriced. Windows Home should be $50 or less and Ultimate should be no more than $90. still alot of $. Linux is free I can have a stable OS
In regards to your comments: in a professional environment you cannot claim that Office 07, iTunes, or Zune software works in WINE. WINE actually has a lot of legal implications that it bypasses and breaks a lot of EULAs. There are also legal implications with using an iPod with software other than iTunes. WIndows officially, natively, and LEGALLY supports these applications.
@devo85x The newbie is not going to use a vm. The true beauty of windows and osX is if a novice never wants a command line or terminal window, they don't need to use one. The average user wants office, email, web, DVD's, netflix and video and photo editing. Both Win and OSx can do these things without ever looking at a command line or booting up a VM. Media editing and installed codec's is really what linux needs to work on to become a viable desktop for the average person.
@mrRhwalden Linux can do all the things you mentioned right out of the box... Ubuntu 11.x includes media codecs out of the box and their add/remove software gives users an easy way to install any other software they might need. No command line needed...
@devo85x Wow, I will have to try the latest for the codec's. It's been a real pain setting up to watch DVD's in the past. But out of the box... Video editing still sucks... and there is no high end option that I know of...
@devo85x Every time, admittedly in the past, I've used Kdenlive, it's been very crash happy. And it's still not on par with Windows movie maker or imovie. We have to be better then the other guys... no just good enough. I've used VLC alot, but again, we are talking out of the box here not going to the package manager and loading it.
I will try a new copy of kdenlive... see if it's more stable. Last time I tried it was about a year ago.
@devo85x just loaded the latest from conical and the restricted codec's are not working. I will try again, but there's my argument. It's not working out of the box and I have to reinstall it again. The only Linux I've had work right out of the box and play a DVD, is Mint. Lisa Rocks....
Umm, VLC media player already can play every damn video codec out there.
Ubuntu has a thing called the software center where you can download apps, without the terminal. About the only thing I can think of is the software to play commercial DVD's needs to be downloaded, but that can be done via terminal or straight from the web. Again 5 seconds. Also You have to install codec's in Window's as well, they don't have them out of the box. Ubuntu does have most of them includ
@snake2006 I am not talking about a seasoned user that knows of the package manager or the terminal (read some of my previous posts)... We are talking about average new user buying a linux box from best buy. These are the people that don't know what a codec is let alone how to download and install one. All they are gonna know is Windows or OSX play dvd's and Linux isn't. Or editing video's or playing music. I'm not saying Linux can't do these things it just doesn't do them out of the box.
@mrRhwalden (continued), do we know if the best buy linux boxes (or are they even selling them anymore) have the restricted codec's installed? Can they pre-install legally? And we are forgetting about streaming netflix too... will a Newbie set up a VM and be able to install windows (legal issues aside)?
They can preinstall codec's legally, even the ones for playing commerical DVD's (which the free distro's can't do legally).
You got me on Netflix though, and that isn't Linux's fault unless they buy Chromebooks then they can. It's more of a Microsoft trying to monopolize the market than Linux's fault, and I admit it's not fair but what can you do. M$ has tons of cash to throw around. Gates wipes his ass with 100 dollar bills.
Linux distros have the codec's built in already, even the commercial ones such as Red Hat have the codec's already included. Not sure about OSX but with Windows I have yet to see a Windows machine preloaded with codec's, and I have bought a few computers over the years. I had to go and download the codec's myself from places like afterdawn. Linux plays just about everything out of the box (assuming on the distro, but most do)
@snake2006 I've never had to download a codec for windows (dvd's)... DVD players have only been a problem for win when I build from scratch (had to install the codec from the supplied disk) I've dropped to the command line more times then I care to remember for DVD playback in Ubuntu (starting with 9.06), and Fedora. On the Mac (Macbook Pro and Hackingtosh Pro) I've never had to grab a codec. Mint's been the only distro I haven't had too. But it included VLC--
And I haven't been using Linux for very long, only since Oct.
I figured stuff out right away, I noticed the Ubuntu software center right away and how easy it was to get software and install it without the terminal. Most distros now have that package manager. Like I said about the only thing they would have to download would be the software for playing commercial DVD's and a 30 sec google search fixes that.
@viyuden apparently you are a microsoft user....or you have some vested interest in promoting ms.....whatever. You have no reason to worry over the legal implications, if it were an issue, we would see this in court. eatadik viyuden
Um, no, it's only a compatibility layer, it has no copyrighted parts in it. If it did, Mircosoft would have had the program shut down a long time ago.
And again NO there are no legal implications with using a iPod without iTunes software. Christ do some real research before spreading lies.
Yea it took me just as long to learn Linux as it took me to learn Microsoft windows xp. I first used macs. Now I use LInux to help me learn how to program with open source tools. The best reason to avoid Microsoft like the plague is their DRM nonsense. Thank god that Linux exist, so I don't have to deal with that bull shit just to use a computer anymore.
@STOPTHEEU If you are stuck with windows, try ccleaner and a good virus scan. I got frustrated with MS and bought a mac because of virus issues and the like. Mostly for silverlight (netflix) But I love linux (three different distro's running in VM's)
well any smart user wouldn't pay that any mind. its the dumb employees they brainwash into that garbage. as for the linux return fud that turned out to be much lower then microsoft calmed it was around the same as windows returns. dell also stated they actually got lower support calls on there linux machines then in windows. the only fact in that entire anti-linux fud was games.
well any smart user wouldn't pay that any mind. its the dumb employees they brainwash into that garbage. as for the linux return fud that turned out to be much lower then microsoft calmed it was around the same as windows returns. dell also stated they actually got lower support calls on there linux machines then in windows. the only fact in that entire anti-linux fud was games.
With most people it's easiest to use analogies related to cars in order to explain computer issues. For example, if someone knows how to drive a passenger car with an automatic transmission, then they can pretty much drive any passenger car with automatic transmission. Other cars feel different, handle differently and the dash board and gauges are different. However, this is easy to overcome. The vast majority of people are not very computer savvy. (continued)
They don't know how computers and software work. They can't install an OS, often can't install other software, can't configure software, etc., etc. The only thing they really know how to do is point and click, and use some software programs. This is all centered around whatever they see on their screens. Switching them to another OS with a modern GUI, and also giving them some of the software that they are used to is quite simple. It's actually easier than switching to another vehicle. (more)
The vast majority of drivers don't actually do repair work or maintenance on their cars, they get someone else to do it. The same concept is true with computers and software. The majority of people actually know more about cars than they do computers, and that's not saying much in many cases. A lot of users construct these false concepts that they won't be able to use Linux or MAC because they are "different", yet they never get under the hood anyway. So in reality it's just a bunch of nonsense.
Unless people are actually going to set up and configure their own systems, it's makes little or no difference which OS they use (strictly from a usability standpoint). Of course if we get into the need for certain "Windoze Only" apps to work, then we take the discussion to another level. But, if we simply look at what most home users do with a computer, then it becomes very obvious that they don't really need to use Windoze. Linux & MAC are actually easier for them - they're almost stupidproof.
I hate to break it to you, but a LOT of linux distros these days, as you so put it, 'just work'. It's very rare where I have to really delve into my system to make something work.
UBUNTU ALL THE WAY!!!!! dude its pretty easy it just takes like 10 mins to install restricted things.. after that everything is free faster and looks better. like everything on my desktop is cool it is like transparent or something
@BuangShrek the good thing about linux is that it is possible to install another browser and then delete FF while you cant remove IE on windows(atleast not versions prior to windows 7)
About updates, Microsoft was caught hacking Firefox, adding a huge security hole to it, through windows update. The user isn't even aware that anything changed, so Microsoft can sabotage Firefox without the user even knowing it.
That also shows how desperate Microsoft is, even resorting to sabotage their competition.
For some of the points I can see where they're coming from.
The vast majority of it is absolute bullshit, though. For your average, everyday user, Linux will be more than sufficient What the issue really comes down to is third party software developers. We'll have to see how OnLive turns out for gaming, plus how Chrome affects the distro world.
I've gotten my mother to use Ubuntu Netbook Remix. If she can figure it out, anyone can.
the sad thing is, my mom always complains about how slow XP is (I did a reinstall to get rid of all the bullshit that came with the OS when we got it from dell... (present, not my choice) anyways :) I have offered to put Xubuntu on her computer with all the software she needs... she refuses... :(
Windows will be fine for the average user, as will just about any version of linux (properly set up), as will Mac.
Only problem is if you want to have an average user on XP, you need to just about lock down the entire thing & not allow them to shoot themselves in the foot.
Firefox, Noscript, LSP restrictions. All that and people still manage to crash their shit. It's amazing to me.
You can get TinyXP easily (no need to say how), which is windows XP with all the useless crap removed. You have even the option to install TinyXP without IE, MS messenger and Media player, the main responsibles for the entry of viruses and trojans. So, you use Firefox, Pidgin and Open Office. Much faster, uses way less system resources.
Current revision is Rev 9 and it includes SP3.
It is legal, as long as you have a valid XP license.
@devo85x because it's different, and people in general fear what is different or misunderstood. :) could always try having her give it a try on your computer or something to see if she'll like it :)
I hear the words "might" and "can" in many places, and it's always there in order to motivate the people by scaring them.
I am definitely for the open-source, but don't forget, that there are people, who dislike the computers in the first place, and there are people who prefer to pay, rather than to learn.
To those people, Windows, and other proprietary software, will be better than open source, until someone, or something manages to convince them otherwise.
TheIntlGamer 2 weeks ago
command for ubuntu upgrade is: sudo apt-get upgrade
ChozoSR388 1 month ago
@ChozoSR388 also sudo aptitude upgrade OR, open Update Manager, click "Upgrade" How difficult is that?!
ChozoSR388 1 month ago
ive learned that windows is basically for old people, and individuals that have been blinded by "what sells best" way of thinking...the only reason that windows sells more each year is because, 1 it doesn't feel like a computer anymore, its like a moving picture 2....come on it mo Fin microsoft they'v been successful for a long time and will always be.... the difference is.....the ease of use...stability for attractiveness...fun for performance...me.. i prefer osx lolz "neutral parrrrtay" woot!
acid201677 1 month ago
i do agree with the updates/security pts.... "Easy to learn" is relative to the person.. For a best buy pc buyer, im going to bet its on the hard side...
Spliffer45 1 month ago
This guys mentality is why linux will never gain huge traction in the consumer market... In his mind the consumer is always wrong... If the consumer doesnt want to have to install tons of shit to get basic functionality like MP3 playback and a working audio chipset, then you shouldn't have to. Remember, were talking about "best buy pc customers".
Spliffer45 1 month ago
@Spliffer45 You do understand the difference between having the OEM install everything for you (which is what was going on with the Dells they were selling) and someone installing linux themselves right? Gotta love how you have a big mouth but all you can do is say the same kind of ignorant shit hahaha
devo85x 1 month ago
@Spliffer45 No, that's not what he's saying. Maybe you should watch the first part of this. Micro$oft has made training material for Best Buy employees that encourages them to discourage customers from having Linux put on their machines. He's saying what bullshit that is to use a...slander/libel campaign to make Linux look bad to the everyday user. Of course, I thought his intent was pretty clear, but, I guess there are those with heads harder than my own :)
ChozoSR388 1 month ago
windows hacked FUCK
dragonfury51 3 months ago
fuck microsoft
dragonfury51 3 months ago
Most windows users don't install there OS.
But if you can burn an ISO put the dvd in and reboot the computer you can install the OS.
I have seen a few Linux problems get a fix released in hours.
Sometimes windows fixes take up to 6 months. take last years back door in Flash
richlaue 4 months ago
@richlaue Yes, MS does take's it's sweet time to fix things but was the flash problem something adobe did thru bad programming (ie a buffer overrun, a memory leak, a stack problem) and microsoft had to go in and pick up the pieces? I don't blame that one completely on microsoft.
Most end users don't even know what an ISO file is let alone how to burn one. How many of you get call from relatives with a tech problem, and all you do is reset the router? happened to me thanksgiving.
mrRhwalden 2 months ago
Sad as it is, I agree with question 3. It is a myth that Linux is easy to learn and that it will "meet customer expectation." The problem with that particular question is that (a) no operating system is easy to learn...though the GUI environment/window manager (ie: Windows, KDE, Gnome, etc.) might be easy to learn, and (b) meeting expectations is extraordinarily difficult to do with Linux when customers are expecting Windows. It's very clever wording.
nychold 4 months ago
@nychold not only that, the customer does not expect to have to drop down to a command line or terminal window to set up codecs to play dvd's. Windows just supports more hardware and if it doesn't the vendor gives you a driver. No command line needed. Average users don't want to use a terminal window, ever. And even DEVO85X is having hardware problems.... Ubuntu didn't like his mother board (audio in doesn't work).... Had to do his vid in windows.... That makes a loud point!
mrRhwalden 3 months ago
@mrRhwalden Sad thing is, I love Linux, but it just can't do a lot of things that the average user wants or needs. Final cut pro (or even imovie) vs [your fav video editor in linux]? nope, not even close. Video editing is the current "killer" app and linux, sadly falls short.
mrRhwalden 3 months ago
If it keeps up, a type of Linux or unix will replace Windows. And then it become Windows, and then it will turn out to be as bad as Wiindows (unless it doesn't follow suit in copycatting, third world exploiting, money and mokery making, and doesn't already have those sneaky gits after money and watering the whole thing down to profit and protect).
But regardless, the other "scum" out there will exploit it anyway.
ShroedingerWatcher 5 months ago
Installing windows and getting updates take 1-2 days installing Linux and update 1-3horus
MRxSNIPES2 8 months ago
There are prrof of concept viruusses for Linux. The reasons they do not spread are many. But one of them is, it is not easy to make an automatic installing file without it asking for root password. And if it does, and you didn't ask for the file yourself, well... kill it.
In Windows you just hit OK to UAC, and for the user, this is just the same as clikcing OK to an information box. They will not have the slighest idea that they are elevating rights and why.
MsPwain 9 months ago
It takes 3 clicks to setup an everyday user account. And the security model behind Linux is very documented. So it works. In the initial installation, Windows is not safer. Compare these facts:
1. Installing through SoftwareCenter, you know there are no malware in the apps
2. This also does that the system can keep track of every app and their updates - automatically
3. You are not gained root access without password in Linux. In Windows you just have to press OK??? Wow! how secure!
MsPwain 9 months ago
Listen up everyone. LINUX and Windows both have Pros and Cons. Which one a person uses really depends on what they will use their computer for.
A everyday computer user who, checks the news, listens to music, browses the web, check email, check Facebook, etc?
Linux is more than enough for this.
A heavy gamer, a graphics artists, one who relies on Window sonly software, watch many DVDs?
Stick with Windows.
8jwong14 9 months ago
@8jwong14 Windows does not have Pros. It has market share. That is all. If you take away your own biases (including the network effect and normalcy bias), GNU/Linux is a much better Operating System than Windows will ever be. Where you're pointing for reasons is known as the network effect (bias). It means that something is popular because it is popular. Products like this often have no merits beyond that.
amdphreak 9 months ago
@amdphreak Yeah. Most of the pros of Windows is because of market share not because it is a superior system. Games can be on Linux but companies don't make them that way because Windows has a bigger market share. But for now, Windows still dominates in software availability and variety due to its market share. That's what I meant to say.
All of Window's pros are due solely to its market share not its quality. If Linux had all the software WIndows had, it would be so much more popular.
8jwong14 9 months ago
@8jwong14 yes but it's a chicken and egg thing. Developers need to eat and pay bills. If some of us in the community would be willing to pay for software and not always insist that it be open source, then maybe we would have more choices. It's not just market share, at the end of the day, it's where can money be made. Prove to the developers that there is money to be made and they will come. Apple had a sliver of market share for years but awesome software was still written for that platform
mrRhwalden 3 months ago
@mrRhwalden In my opinion though. Developers can still make money but also release open source software. The way to do this is sell a completely compiled and guarentteed functional version of software but also releae the code too for those who want to take the time and effort toi compile it. Most average users would most likely still go with downloading the already compiled and functional software instead of having to take effort to compile it.
8jwong14 3 months ago
@8jwong14 Yes, but what would stop someone like microsoft buying a copy, tweak the source and then sell it, and out market the original developer? I don't know about you, but, microsoft's lawyers are bigger then my lawyers. Now, for everyday apps, open source works great but for some "killer app" like a true rival to final cut pro for example, where many, many hours are involved, the open source model just will not work or at least has not so far.
mrRhwalden 3 months ago
@mrRhwalden The "Open Source model" currently is and has been for a while 'working', and the pioneers have already solved this issue... the source code of these projects DO have a License. The method is called 'copy-left'. Look up GPL if your interested, note this is only one of many license's used. And developers DO make money from it, by selling support to the users. Look up Red Hat Enterprise Linux, one very successful company in open source.
Diabolist11 2 months ago
@Diabolist11 The open source model; giving the software away and charging for support, is not working on the Home Desktop. The home desktop is what this discussion is about, isn't it? Have you ever called customer support for a game? How about Gimp? Open office, or Libra office? If you are like me, you hit google and the forums. Charging for support works with servers and mission critical, but not with the desktop for the home user. Red hat is not interested in the home desktop.
mrRhwalden 2 months ago
@Diabolist11 Copy left, still doesn't stop Microsoft from tweaking the code a bit and then out marketing and throwing money at lawyers. Microsoft has proven itself inherently evil in this regard. It's very easy to hide someone else source code in your own project. Then close the source. If anyone here has programed you know what I'm talking about. You can't really copyright, copyleft or patent an equation and that's what most software is.
mrRhwalden 2 months ago
lol, I PXE booted a whole class with Debian. Backtrack rocks
Linux 4 life.. whoops,
sudo linux 4 life.
natali601 11 months ago
and Microsoft Windows computers aren't a pain in the crack to upkeep? Right now, while watching this video, i have switched over to my windows partition to scan with kaspersky, which is crap, and right now, im defragging my computer... I have to do this once a week... I have yet to do the same with my Ubuntu or Fedora partitions...
glupoi653 11 months ago
linux is not 10 times safer than windows its a million times safer than windows xDxDxD
I learned how to use linux nearly perfectly in only 1 day with out any help, and in windows i took much longer
arand4 1 year ago
Linux is the easyest to udate window just opens when a new update is avaible and u just click on update and it will do its thing. xD I never update windows because its not good to update windows
arand4 1 year ago
I've read the slides and I must admit that these "reasons" against Linux are just complete bullshit. Not any of the "reasons" they mention in the slides is true. And the "real facts" sections don't contain any facts, only just more unproven claims.
This anti-linux "training" is truly the third-worst propaganda I've stumpled upon in my entire life. Unbelievable!
This "quiz" reminds me a bit of stupid MythBusters.
"Microsoft always tells the truth—fact or myth?" :D
Nice video btw.
Wuzzy1337 1 year ago
@Wuzzy1337 Total mith xD xD xD unbelievable how stupid Microsoft is, isn't it? xD
arand4 1 year ago
@arand4 I wouldn't call Microsoft stupid. You don't become one the biggest companies in the world by being stupid. I think sleazy covers it better.
mrRhwalden 2 months ago
@Wuzzy1337 yup, they are twisted... most are half-truths and myths.
mrRhwalden 2 months ago
sense when is it hard to click the update button when the update manager tells you that there are updates available?
Tununias 1 year ago
The more I know about Microsoft the more I want them to be destroyed in the most humiliating and violent way possible.
Tununias 1 year ago
Linux is safer than Windows but No OS is impervious contrary to what fanboys will tell you about any of the OSes out there,
experimental0000 1 year ago
@experimental0000 Mac os and linux are safer but only because of market share. Virus authors want to hit the biggest target out there and guess what, that's windows.
mrRhwalden 2 months ago
Great Video! :)
supasapphire 1 year ago
I liked the bit about windows being easier to upgrade than linux. Hmm.. every 6 months i can upgrade ubuntu for free. Microsoft charges you money to upgrade, for the privilege of being able to do the same things with higher hardware requirements.... or be left with an unsupported OS. It's nice getting reemed from both ends.
Greymerk 1 year ago
@Greymerk not to mention other than upgrading to a new version of the OS/Distro you don't need to reboot. with Windows it varies on whether you need to reboot or not but more often than not, you need to reboot and the new versions bug you alot to reboot. I like not having to in Linux while still having the changes take affect, more uptime. Windows is also overpriced. Windows Home should be $50 or less and Ultimate should be no more than $90. still alot of $. Linux is free I can have a stable OS
experimental0000 1 year ago
@Greymerk isn't it tho? Let me hear ya squeal like a pig...
mrRhwalden 2 months ago
@mrRhwalden Okay well i'm glad we agree. But fortunately for me i'm using linux, so now it's just you. :)
Greymerk 2 months ago
@Greymerk I pretty much don't do windows... (I even use a mac book at work)
mrRhwalden 2 months ago
In regards to your comments: in a professional environment you cannot claim that Office 07, iTunes, or Zune software works in WINE. WINE actually has a lot of legal implications that it bypasses and breaks a lot of EULAs. There are also legal implications with using an iPod with software other than iTunes. WIndows officially, natively, and LEGALLY supports these applications.
viyuden 1 year ago
@viyuden Then use a virtual machine... problem solved!
devo85x 1 year ago 7
@devo85x The newbie is not going to use a vm. The true beauty of windows and osX is if a novice never wants a command line or terminal window, they don't need to use one. The average user wants office, email, web, DVD's, netflix and video and photo editing. Both Win and OSx can do these things without ever looking at a command line or booting up a VM. Media editing and installed codec's is really what linux needs to work on to become a viable desktop for the average person.
mrRhwalden 3 months ago
@mrRhwalden Linux can do all the things you mentioned right out of the box... Ubuntu 11.x includes media codecs out of the box and their add/remove software gives users an easy way to install any other software they might need. No command line needed...
devo85x 3 months ago
@devo85x Wow, I will have to try the latest for the codec's. It's been a real pain setting up to watch DVD's in the past. But out of the box... Video editing still sucks... and there is no high end option that I know of...
mrRhwalden 3 months ago
@mrRhwalden Install VLC for movies and try Kdenlive to video editing. Just like under windows/osx the software is there you just have to get it.
devo85x 3 months ago
@devo85x Every time, admittedly in the past, I've used Kdenlive, it's been very crash happy. And it's still not on par with Windows movie maker or imovie. We have to be better then the other guys... no just good enough. I've used VLC alot, but again, we are talking out of the box here not going to the package manager and loading it.
I will try a new copy of kdenlive... see if it's more stable. Last time I tried it was about a year ago.
mrRhwalden 2 months ago
@devo85x just loaded the latest from conical and the restricted codec's are not working. I will try again, but there's my argument. It's not working out of the box and I have to reinstall it again. The only Linux I've had work right out of the box and play a DVD, is Mint. Lisa Rocks....
mrRhwalden 2 months ago
@mrRhwalden
Umm, VLC media player already can play every damn video codec out there.
Ubuntu has a thing called the software center where you can download apps, without the terminal. About the only thing I can think of is the software to play commercial DVD's needs to be downloaded, but that can be done via terminal or straight from the web. Again 5 seconds. Also You have to install codec's in Window's as well, they don't have them out of the box. Ubuntu does have most of them includ
snake2006 2 months ago
@snake2006 I am not talking about a seasoned user that knows of the package manager or the terminal (read some of my previous posts)... We are talking about average new user buying a linux box from best buy. These are the people that don't know what a codec is let alone how to download and install one. All they are gonna know is Windows or OSX play dvd's and Linux isn't. Or editing video's or playing music. I'm not saying Linux can't do these things it just doesn't do them out of the box.
mrRhwalden 2 months ago
@mrRhwalden (continued), do we know if the best buy linux boxes (or are they even selling them anymore) have the restricted codec's installed? Can they pre-install legally? And we are forgetting about streaming netflix too... will a Newbie set up a VM and be able to install windows (legal issues aside)?
mrRhwalden 2 months ago
@mrRhwalden
They can preinstall codec's legally, even the ones for playing commerical DVD's (which the free distro's can't do legally).
You got me on Netflix though, and that isn't Linux's fault unless they buy Chromebooks then they can. It's more of a Microsoft trying to monopolize the market than Linux's fault, and I admit it's not fair but what can you do. M$ has tons of cash to throw around. Gates wipes his ass with 100 dollar bills.
snake2006 2 months ago
@mrRhwalden
Linux distros have the codec's built in already, even the commercial ones such as Red Hat have the codec's already included. Not sure about OSX but with Windows I have yet to see a Windows machine preloaded with codec's, and I have bought a few computers over the years. I had to go and download the codec's myself from places like afterdawn. Linux plays just about everything out of the box (assuming on the distro, but most do)
snake2006 2 months ago
@snake2006 I've never had to download a codec for windows (dvd's)... DVD players have only been a problem for win when I build from scratch (had to install the codec from the supplied disk) I've dropped to the command line more times then I care to remember for DVD playback in Ubuntu (starting with 9.06), and Fedora. On the Mac (Macbook Pro and Hackingtosh Pro) I've never had to grab a codec. Mint's been the only distro I haven't had too. But it included VLC--
mrRhwalden 2 months ago
@mrRhwalden
And I haven't been using Linux for very long, only since Oct.
I figured stuff out right away, I noticed the Ubuntu software center right away and how easy it was to get software and install it without the terminal. Most distros now have that package manager. Like I said about the only thing they would have to download would be the software for playing commercial DVD's and a 30 sec google search fixes that.
snake2006 2 months ago
@snake2006 Yeah, software center rocks so does the package manager, I miss it when I'm using my mac.
mrRhwalden 2 months ago
@devo85x doesn't solve the legality issue, unless you a spare windows license laying around.
mrRhwalden 2 months ago
@viyuden apparently you are a microsoft user....or you have some vested interest in promoting ms.....whatever. You have no reason to worry over the legal implications, if it were an issue, we would see this in court. eatadik viyuden
daltonsbadboy 1 year ago
@viyuden well i know this was a year ago, but it is now legal to do that on your ipod
313hummer 4 months ago
@viyuden Don't forget DVD's. Linux can't play DVD's, legally.
mrRhwalden 2 months ago
@viyuden
Um, no, it's only a compatibility layer, it has no copyrighted parts in it. If it did, Mircosoft would have had the program shut down a long time ago.
And again NO there are no legal implications with using a iPod without iTunes software. Christ do some real research before spreading lies.
snake2006 2 months ago
Yea it took me just as long to learn Linux as it took me to learn Microsoft windows xp. I first used macs. Now I use LInux to help me learn how to program with open source tools. The best reason to avoid Microsoft like the plague is their DRM nonsense. Thank god that Linux exist, so I don't have to deal with that bull shit just to use a computer anymore.
wooka64 1 year ago
Windows updates installing things like silverlight which I don't want.
Installing Microsofts drivers for my graphic card or and sound card which causes problems because ms drivers are shit!
So I've got silverlight and bad drivers and the system tells me to restart every 15 minutes.....
NOOOOOO NOOOOO NOOOO!
Okay I restart... Blue screen... And people pay for this?
Not to mention the virus problems...
STOPTHEEU 1 year ago
@STOPTHEEU If you are stuck with windows, try ccleaner and a good virus scan. I got frustrated with MS and bought a mac because of virus issues and the like. Mostly for silverlight (netflix) But I love linux (three different distro's running in VM's)
mrRhwalden 2 months ago
well any smart user wouldn't pay that any mind. its the dumb employees they brainwash into that garbage. as for the linux return fud that turned out to be much lower then microsoft calmed it was around the same as windows returns. dell also stated they actually got lower support calls on there linux machines then in windows. the only fact in that entire anti-linux fud was games.
luther349 1 year ago
well any smart user wouldn't pay that any mind. its the dumb employees they brainwash into that garbage. as for the linux return fud that turned out to be much lower then microsoft calmed it was around the same as windows returns. dell also stated they actually got lower support calls on there linux machines then in windows. the only fact in that entire anti-linux fud was games.
luther349 1 year ago
With most people it's easiest to use analogies related to cars in order to explain computer issues. For example, if someone knows how to drive a passenger car with an automatic transmission, then they can pretty much drive any passenger car with automatic transmission. Other cars feel different, handle differently and the dash board and gauges are different. However, this is easy to overcome. The vast majority of people are not very computer savvy. (continued)
spacepirate777 1 year ago
They don't know how computers and software work. They can't install an OS, often can't install other software, can't configure software, etc., etc. The only thing they really know how to do is point and click, and use some software programs. This is all centered around whatever they see on their screens. Switching them to another OS with a modern GUI, and also giving them some of the software that they are used to is quite simple. It's actually easier than switching to another vehicle. (more)
spacepirate777 1 year ago
The vast majority of drivers don't actually do repair work or maintenance on their cars, they get someone else to do it. The same concept is true with computers and software. The majority of people actually know more about cars than they do computers, and that's not saying much in many cases. A lot of users construct these false concepts that they won't be able to use Linux or MAC because they are "different", yet they never get under the hood anyway. So in reality it's just a bunch of nonsense.
spacepirate777 1 year ago
Unless people are actually going to set up and configure their own systems, it's makes little or no difference which OS they use (strictly from a usability standpoint). Of course if we get into the need for certain "Windoze Only" apps to work, then we take the discussion to another level. But, if we simply look at what most home users do with a computer, then it becomes very obvious that they don't really need to use Windoze. Linux & MAC are actually easier for them - they're almost stupidproof.
spacepirate777 1 year ago
Fuck Microsoft.
Go Open-Source !
jeroeniskoning 2 years ago
I hate to break it to you, but a LOT of linux distros these days, as you so put it, 'just work'. It's very rare where I have to really delve into my system to make something work.
greenboy623 2 years ago
UBUNTU ALL THE WAY!!!!! dude its pretty easy it just takes like 10 mins to install restricted things.. after that everything is free faster and looks better. like everything on my desktop is cool it is like transparent or something
migg137 2 years ago 5
Its bloated and slow vs. many of the other browsers I play with.
BuangShrek 2 years ago
I only use FF or IE when I have to. Most major distributions of Linux have FF preinstalled - which annoys me.
BuangShrek 2 years ago
@BuangShrek the good thing about linux is that it is possible to install another browser and then delete FF while you cant remove IE on windows(atleast not versions prior to windows 7)
ismetteren 2 years ago
dude lets make a comunity to help linux users
lordzed09 2 years ago
i agree, down with the proprietaries!
schmidtbag 2 years ago
can you still do this review
CornishCreamtea07 2 years ago
About updates, Microsoft was caught hacking Firefox, adding a huge security hole to it, through windows update. The user isn't even aware that anything changed, so Microsoft can sabotage Firefox without the user even knowing it.
That also shows how desperate Microsoft is, even resorting to sabotage their competition.
fernbap 2 years ago
For some of the points I can see where they're coming from.
The vast majority of it is absolute bullshit, though. For your average, everyday user, Linux will be more than sufficient What the issue really comes down to is third party software developers. We'll have to see how OnLive turns out for gaming, plus how Chrome affects the distro world.
I've gotten my mother to use Ubuntu Netbook Remix. If she can figure it out, anyone can.
Thesinrg 2 years ago 2
the sad thing is, my mom always complains about how slow XP is (I did a reinstall to get rid of all the bullshit that came with the OS when we got it from dell... (present, not my choice) anyways :) I have offered to put Xubuntu on her computer with all the software she needs... she refuses... :(
devo85x 2 years ago
That's what happens for the most part.
Windows will be fine for the average user, as will just about any version of linux (properly set up), as will Mac.
Only problem is if you want to have an average user on XP, you need to just about lock down the entire thing & not allow them to shoot themselves in the foot.
Firefox, Noscript, LSP restrictions. All that and people still manage to crash their shit. It's amazing to me.
Thesinrg 2 years ago 7
You can get TinyXP easily (no need to say how), which is windows XP with all the useless crap removed. You have even the option to install TinyXP without IE, MS messenger and Media player, the main responsibles for the entry of viruses and trojans. So, you use Firefox, Pidgin and Open Office. Much faster, uses way less system resources.
Current revision is Rev 9 and it includes SP3.
It is legal, as long as you have a valid XP license.
Worth a try....
fernbap 2 years ago
@devo85x because it's different, and people in general fear what is different or misunderstood. :) could always try having her give it a try on your computer or something to see if she'll like it :)
experimental0000 1 year ago