BOOK OF MORMON is a fancy fantacy book... which can never be compared to The HOLY BIBLE... ! Joseph smith lost his soul to fantacy & selfishness took over & so he started a cult like LDS which offers a way away from the God of Abraham ! Praise Jesus Im NOT LDS ! Thumbs up vid.
"Some revelations are of God: some revelations are of men: and some revelations are of the devil." per Joseph Smith revelation after he got an incorrect revelation.
I wonder how they tell which is which if they are all revelation.
Maybe all LDS revelation is of the devil...how would they know?
Thats curious.
Its like going around and around in happy little circles.
Broaden your understanding of the world around you and it will make sense how a person can know Him without doing veils and handshakes inside a temple.
Why..... a person kind find the one true God on a deserted island with only the book of John, his own humble heart, and a God who is there and listens to the pleading of that heart.
You know its a cult when you confine the Savior into a little temple or church shaped box.
It kind of boggles the mind....how many many people in this world that have found Jesus, and especially people in countries where it is illegal to attend a Christian church, let alone a Mormon church.....yet, these people who worship Jesus in secret, they have a relationship with Jesus.
Jesus wants the hearts of every sinner, not just the ones who are in the church I attend or in a Mormon church.
Trying to figure out how you gain a relationship with Jesus Christ by leaving the church when The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is Jesus Christ's church.
@angelcollector22 I do know the REAL Jesus. I've made holy and sacred covenants with the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and I don't intend to break them to the Son of God.
Those covenants are not necessary for salvation or eternal life (eternal life meaning spending eternity in Gods presence)....your covenant handshakes and hand passing through the veil and the eternal marriage are not biblical...they are man made and contrary to the Bible and the will of God.
To each his own beliefs, you have free agency to decide on a man made ritual.
However, those of us who don't do LDS handshakes have a relationship with Christ that is outside of rituals.
@angelcollector22 Yet God is pleased when his true followers are willing to make promises with Him.
@"and the eternal marriage are not biblical" Do yourself a favor and read the Bible again. We teach Jesus Christ's gospel, not things contrary to the Bible. I have a relationship with Jesus Christ who died on the cross who's church I'm a member of and that's The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.
I know my Bible and eternal marriage is not found in the pages of the Holy Bible and it isn't even in your book of Mormon..its in other LDS writings.
God is not pleased with promises that are based on men attaining godhood.
You need to do some reading yourself.
Yes, Jesus Christ who is God Almighty did die on the cross...however, your Jesus is not the Biblical Jesus. Hes a Jesus formed in the imaginations of man.
You won't find most of Mormon doctrine in the Bible OR the book of Mormon
Let alone that fact that everything that LDS is based on is a lie...if you are able to come to that realization, then the Bible will come alive with truth.
Did you know that Joseph Smiths claimed vision was a duplicate of a fiction book from prior to his supposed vision? His vision has direct, undisputed quotes from that book...quotes, not same thoughts or ideas, but QUOTES from a fiction book.
Research the REAL history of LDS.....you will find huge GAPING holes and mistruths, lies
@angelcollector22 We teach the truth and nothing else. I do know what the Bible says and it doesn't say anything about the false "trinity" doctrine. I know the real history. I don't go by what the world says, I go by what the Holy Ghost says and it's let me know the church is true so I will not turn my back on it or Jesus Christ and his church.
I have just shown you a tremendous amount of the Bible that says Jesus is God, so, we have two of the trinity proven.....so lets now prove the Holy Spirit is also God:
John 14:16-18 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another [and this word in Greek means: another of the same kind] Helper, that He may abide with you forever -- the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. I will not leave you orphans; I WILL COME TO YOU.
Here we have Jesus saying that He would send the Holy Spirit and that it would be HE that comes to you.
Now since you accuse me of just isolating a verse, I will now choose other parts of the Bible to prove some more that Jesus and God are also the Holy Spirit:
Also another trinity verse, also from over 600 years prior to Christ:
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, COUNSELLER, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
The holy spirit is name here as counseller, Jesus the prince of peace is mentioned here, and the mighty God is mentioned as well as the everlasting Father.
But yet, this passage said HE shall be called, not THEY.
@angelcollector22 @"Also another trinity verse" What "another"? You haven't given one yet. That doesn't teach the trinity either. "Mighty God", it doesn't say "almighty". Those things are speaking of Jesus.
Please tell me how Jesus can be the everlasting Father?
Is there more than one everlasting Father?....or do you think that when Isaiah wrote that that Jesus already was the Father spirit of spirit children?
How can both Fathers be everlasting if Jesus was the spirit offspring of God?
@angelcollector22 There are no verses that say they are one God so there's nothing to ignore. The Father is the one true God. I go by what the scriptures teach and that includes the Bible. It doesn't teach of your false "trinity" so there's no need to believe in it when it's not a true doctrine.
So......you believe the Bible so far as it is translated correctly....
so if you don't accept the many many passages I quoted, you, in essence, believe that MOST of the Bible is mistranslated, with the exception of a few verses that agree with LDS beliefs (that are not even written in the book of Mormon, that is supposed to be the fullness of the gospel and the most correct book ever written)
@angelcollector22 @"You are taught that they trinity is false." Wrong. I never heard of the false "trinity" until a few years ago. I looked it up, having read the entire Bible, and found the "trinity" to be one of the most unbiblical teachings ever created.
@"The Bible clearly shows differently." It doesn't teach the "trinity", not once. I accept the Bible and what it teaches. I don't accept your version of what it says. I accept what the Spirit says the Bible says.
And yet you've understood 0% of what you've posted.
What is so difficult to understand that when Colossians says that nothing consisted before Jesus created it.. that, well, nothing existed before Jesus created?
What do you think it means?
Does nothing mean nothing or does nothing mean something?
@angelcollector22 Oh I know the church teaches the "trinity" concept is false, since it is; but again, I never even heard of the "trinity" concept until a few years ago. In our ward this concept hasn't even been discussed. Since it's a false concept there's no reason to talk about it.
@angelcollector22 I accept what the Bible says, again, I do not accept what YOUR version of what you claim the Bible says. In other words I don't accept what YOU have tried to make the Bible say. You've spoken of the "trinity" while the Bible teaches of something different.
The real Jesus was not the result of a sexual union with God and Mary. The real Jesus was never a man. The real Jesus is God eternal as the Bible says. The real Jesus is not Satans spirit brother or yours or my spirit brother.
You are making covenants to someone different.
If you want to know the real Jesus, study the Bible.
Those covenants that you have done are Freemason rituals that do nothing for your relationship with God.
@angelcollector22 And I've always wondered why you people say we believe God had sex with Mary. We believe in the VIRGIN birth.
@"The real Jesus was never a man." Jesus was never a man? That's funny because the New Testament shows he was. Jesus is the SON of God. So the scriptures are wrong when they describe Jesus as "he"?
@"The real Jesus is God eternal as the Bible says" What the Bible says is the Father is the only true God. Jesus was the one that said this.
Your own LDS writings say that Jesus was conceived through normal sexual relations. This means that if God is the Father and Mary is the Mother that normal sexual relations happened between God and Mary to produce Jesus.
When I say Jesus was never a man, what I mean is that Jesus was not a mortal regular man who over time progressed to godhood as your church teaches....He has always been God Almighty, he became a man specifically to die for His creation.
Matthew 1:23 - “Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,” which is translated, “God with us.”
Isaiah 9:6 - For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Revelation 1:8 - “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”
Revelation 22:13 - “I AM the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”... 22:16 - “I, JESUS, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches.”
@angelcollector22 No, I make covenants with God the Father and Jesus Christ. I do study the Bible and I do know the REAL Jesus. The covenants I make to GOD are nothing but holy and sacred.
John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God... 1:14 - And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us,
John 8:58 - Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
1 Timothy 3:16 - And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: GOD WAS MANIFESTED IN THE FLESH, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.
@angelcollector22 No, those don't indicate the false "trinity". Jesus being called God in this refers to him being the Son of the ONLY true God and that's the Father.
@angelcollector22 Not in denial. I've heard people attempt to use John 1:1 for the "trinity". It doesn't work or fit the "trinity" concept. 1 Corinthians 8:6 states that to us there is ONE God and that is the Father. Not 3-in-1. I like how you contradict yourself. You claim Jesus to be the one true God yet I'm sure you don't believe in the "as man is God once was" phrase. By your personal belief, not the scriptures, you're saying Jesus never had flesh and bones.
"By your personal belief, not the scriptures, you're saying Jesus never had flesh and bones. "
Heres the difference:
Your church believes way back in eternity past that the way Almighty God became God was through being a good human. And that Jesus reaches Godhood the same way.
The Bible teaches that Jesus is the eternal God as Isaiah said. This means that God, being, well, God....has always been, then He manifested as a man for the salvation of the world..He was still God while here.
@angelcollector22 The Father is the only true God. Jesus is simply called "God" because he's the Son of the the only true God. The Bible says the Father is the only true God while Jesus is the Son of God and our Lord and Savior.
@angelcollector22 You obviously don't get the difference between ONE true God and Jesus being called "our" God.
@"Why does your church teach that its people can attain godhood if there is only one true God?"
The Bible. As there be gods many, and lords many to us there is one God and that is the Father. And in case you plan on criticizing that comment it comes straight from 1 Corinthians 8:5.
"As there be gods many, and lords many to us there is one God"
First of all, you are doing just what you accused me of, you are picking one verse and going with it while ignoring a ton other passages.
"Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me was NO GOD formed, neither shall there be after me." Isaiah 43:10
And, yes please read 1 cor 8:7, that passage is talking about false gods (not real)
Why do you think Jesus refers to Himself as THE ALMIGHTY????
Revelation 1:8 - “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, THE ALMIGHTY.”
Revelation 22:13 - “I AM the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”... 22:16 - “I, JESUS, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches.”
I'm guessing that you haven't read in detail any of the verses I have posted because it makes your churches doctrine come crashing down.
When an LDS faithful posts a verse whether from the Bible or from BoM or other LDS writings, I read it, I pick it apart for the sole purpose of knowing truth.
If you pick these verses apart, you will only find the truth is that Jesus is God......if you want to remain in denial cause its safer for you, then you will plug your ears to these verses.
@angelcollector22 @"If you pick these verses apart" That's where you go wrong. You see the Bible as nothing more than individual verses. I see the Bible as a whole. If you look at the Bible as individual verses you'll never understand it, God the Father, or Jesus Christ. I don't plug my ears to the Bible. I read and study it. I know the truth and the truth is the Father is the only true God as it was Jesus who said this.
The reason I quoted MANY verses from the Bible is a great testament to the fact that you can't use individual verses, but have to use the whole Bible....some of the verses I quoted were written down over 600 years before Christ was born, some are statements that Jesus made and some are the testimony of the apostles. You can easily prove Jesus is God if you dare look at the Bible in its entirety, which I HAVE DONE.
And, furthermore, LDS handpicks individual verses more than anyone else I can think of.
For instance the bi proxy baptism that is a false doctrine, they can only find one verse in the Bible that if they compound that verse with an untruth, they deceive people.
Or the prophet Jeremiah...they handpick ONE verse there to try to prove that the Book of Mormon was prophesied to be written.
Don't accuse me of something your church does in spades.
Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is IN YOU?
John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for HE DWELLETH IN YOU and will be with you, and shall be IN YOU.
Here we have Jesus Christ dwelling in us and the Holy Spirit also capable of living in us.
according to the verses below, the Holy Spirit has divine characteristics:
Ps 139:7-12; John 14:17-18 - omniscient 1 Cor 2:10 - grace Zechariah 12:10; Hebr. 10:29 - holiness, glory Romans 1:4; 1 Peter 4:14 - life Romans 8:2,10; 2 Cor 3:6 - love Romans 15:30; 2 Tim 1:7 - unsearchable greatness Isaiah 40:13 - truth John 14:17; 15:26: 16:13; 1 John 5:6 - where the Spirit is, there is power Acts 1:8; 2 Tim 1:7; Romans 15:13,19 - sovereignty John 3:8; 1 Cor 12:11
How can Jesus and Michael have organized the world if one of them is not God ALMIGHTY?
By the way, Jesus did not organize the world, He, being God, created it:
For by Jesus were all things CREATED (NOT ORGANIZED) that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers; all things were created by him, and for him: and he is before all things, and by him all things consist. ...” (Col. 1:15-18).
Your temple endowment teaches, Jesus AND MICHAEL organized the world, not created it.
And how can Jesus create the world by the will of your separate God Almighty if Colossians 1:15 says that He created all things, whether visible or unvisible, principalities and powers and HE IS BEFORE ALL THINGS AND IN HIM ALL THINGS CONSIST. That means He is before ANY GOD....why? Because He is God.
@angelcollector22 The Bible says Jesus created the earth. It doesn't say he's the sole creator of the earth. God said to let "us" create. Meaning there was more than one being involved.
@"of your separate God Almighty" The Father is God of all. The Father is Almighty. You're still denying the existence of the Father who is to us, meaning everyone, the one true God.
The Father is not in all of us. As a matter of fact the Bible clearly teaches that before conversion to Christ, we belong to "your father the devil"
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
@angelcollector22 Jesus told Mary that the Father is our Father. I guess you think Jesus was joking. Jesus was speaking, in John 15, of those that sin willfully and who aren't repentant.
@angelcollector22 @"God having sex with goddess wives to produce spirit children." Not something the church has ever taught. If you got that from the movie "Godmakers" you can't and won't be taken seriously.
@"Michael the archangel being active in creation." Given by revelation from God. Nobody really knows about why the handshake thing was done. However, it predates Masonry. The Bible says what God binds don't let "man", meaning death in this case, put asunder. Death cant break what God binds
By all records, Smith brought the handshake into the church from Freemasons, since he was a freemason prior to the introduction of the handshake into the LDS church.
One thing we DO know...the handshake has not one tiny shred of Biblical backing to it.
"God having sex with goddess wives to produce spirit children."
You tell me how God produces spirit children without sex.
Did he create them?
Or are we all really his children?
It cracks me up....you LDS seem to think that us who are speaking against LDS lies have not done our research.
The goddess wives is a concept that it written in LDS writings. Every LDS concept I hear about, I go right to the source because I don't want to accuse based on heresay.
"Jesus is the only person who had our Heavenly Father as the father of his body" (Family Home Evening Manual, 1972, pp.125-126).
"suffice it to say that our Lord was born of a virgin, which is fitting and proper, and also natural, since the Father of the Child was an immortal Being...He is the Son of God in the same sense and way that we are the sons of mortal fathers" (The Promised Messiah, pp.466, 468)
you only call her virgin because her literal biological Father is immortal.
Well....I bet if you read your Bible, you might know how Christ was conceived......
But, hmmmm...that would go against your heretical teaching....do you really want to know how He was conceived, or would you just like to know only what your church teaches?
I know you have been instructed not to question....but, you should.
@"you might know how Christ was conceived" Nobody will know that by reading any of the scriptures. And no, he wasn't conceived by the Holy Ghost. Mary was found with child who was OF the Holy Ghost. Being OF and BY the Holy Ghost are 2 different things.
@angelcollector22 That would make Jesus the Son of the Holy Ghost and not the Son of the Father which is contrary to the Bible. And the church hasn't taught he was conceived the way you claim we believe. He was of the Holy Spirit/Ghost, not conceived by it. The Bible does not say HOW he was conceived.
You cannot seem to get away from the concept that everything a eternal God has created also means that He had to be literal Father of.
God is not sexual, He is creator.
If he has the power to count the hairs on your head and make the sun rise and speak creation into existence by saying "Let here be", than He could have just as much power to come to His creation in the form of a baby with His power alone
And since the Bible claims she was a virgin, then, yes....she was conceived by Gods power alone.
Do you really, if you really sit down and think about it, do you really think that God Almighty has a penis, gets an erection, and ejaculates into the body of a woman?
Matthew 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child OF THE HOLY GHOST.
It does not say "by" it does not say that anyone bedded Mary. You cannot find that anywhere within the pages of the Bible.
Isaiah himself didn't even prophecy that key concept that you are trying to pull...A virgin shall conceive a son. A virgin cannot conceive a son by anything other than the creator willing it
oh....I know, I know.....anything that LDS has changed since its inception to make their quacky beliefs seem more palatable, is no longer doctrine.
Thats the really neat part of all this...reading LDS history and knowing the wacky doctrines or beliefs from your quacky so called prophet from its early days just to know for sure that something isn't quite right.
Its downright willful ignorance to still fall for the nonsense after knowing what smith and his cronies believed/taught
Not that todays doctrine isn't quacky, its just less quacky than the original utter nonsense. Now its just utter nonsense from a new generation of the willfully ignorant.
@angelcollector22 I already told you it's never been taught that the Father had sex with anyone. Nowhere in the history of the church has that been taught. The Bible teaches the truth as does the Book of Mormon. They both support each other. Since the Bible proves the Book of Mormon is true that means the Bible also proves Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God.
What does the bible say the Gospel of Christ is?
#1 Another thoery with little or no proof... just an accusation to seed doubt... good one... That is the same tactic satan uses.
2# Where is this taught? Oh ya... godmakers... a propaganda video with no truth in it... We now know you are decieved.
3# What do you think the trinity would be? Anyways... council of gods is not Gods. god would be another name for the children of God... it is a tradition thing...
#1 Smiths vision of being copied from a fiction book is indeed a theory...a very good one, though...it has exact word for word phrases in the book of Mormon from that book (several of them)
#2 Never watched the godmakers and couldn't give you one inkling as to what it is about except that you have told me the title and I can sorta guess.
#3 The trinity is God, not gods. And yes council of gods would be the children of a god as you think any god who has ever existed was procreated.
#1lets see this "exact word for word phrases" then
#2it is where all the lies come from that U think R truth sad really that it is taught as truth still shows what U know & don't know
#3 God is God the trinity is a made up theory 2 define an unknown god. I nor LDS do not believe God or anyone else was procreated. This just shows how much you know. LDS believe that we are all eternal, that our spiritual birth was more of a given meaning 2 us. ex nihilo is false in every way
Nope not a child of the LDS god...yeah, thanks but no thanks.
I am very happy to worship the one true God who created me...no thanks, I don't want a god who is having continuous celestial sex with goddess wives...ewwww
You are not a child of God? You deny the sacrifice of this Son?
It is not only ignorant of you but quite bigoted to propagate such lies after you have been repeatedly told this is false and there is no creditable evidence to back it... I would say your father is he who is the father of lies as you seem to love them so.
I am a child of God through adoption, not procreation.
I do not deny Gods sacrifice for my sin and I have accepted Him. His holy Spirit dwells in me. In this way, I am an adopted daughter of God Almighty. This only happened when I gave my life to Christ. I have not always been His daughter. Of course, I was His creation. He spoke humans into existence. In this way, He is Father of us all because He created us. That does not mean literal Father.
4) You never answered why you have not joined the LDS church.
5) you claim you defend ALL religions, but I googled your username and it seems that the only religion you defend at least on the internet (and ALL over the internet) is LDS...why?
6) You cannot be in defense of ALL religions if you are not in defense of evangelical Christianity.
You sure like to use propaganda and lies... I call that attacking.
I'm a follower of Christ.
Why should I?
It is the one that is attacked most often. It started when i noticed the campaign to dislike the "I'm Mormon" vids. When people attack others I call them on it.
@angelcollector22 God can choose to forgive anyone. And so what if plural marriage is still in D&C? What does that have to do with it? Just because it's there doesn't mean it's practiced anymore. If I'm not mistaken the Old Testament still has an eye for an eye in it.
"Then what was the point of Jesus preaching to the spirits in prison after the crucifixion and before the resurrection?"
The Bible does not say preaching.....He was testifying to His fullfillment of overcoming death and Hell. He wasn't preaching to lost souls and that passage does not say that there were undecided dead that Jesus was preaching to.........thats an added LDS twist on the scriptures.
@angelcollector22 And the Bible still says an eye for an eye. The teachings of the Judaism, of which the Old Testament teaches of, say a woman is to be stoned to death for being pregnant outside of marriage. So I guess you're saying we all should stone pregnant women who aren't married to death. We do obey the gospel of Jesus Christ.
You know very well that the Old Testament laws were for those generation of JEWISH people.
I am seeing that anytime that Lord God makes a covenant with His people within the Bible, He has ALWAYS and consistently kept that covenant with His people.
Old Testament laws and actual covenants are completely separate concepts.
"Mary was concerned because of her betrothal to Joseph. The angel explained, ‘You and the Father will associate together in the capacity of Husband and Wife; hence, you will be, for at least a time, the lawful wife of God the Father. After He is finished with you, the Father will give you to Joseph. God will be your first husband’" (The Seer, p. 158).
"God the father had a plurality of wives…the son followed the example of his father, and became the great bridegroom to whom king’s daughters and many honorable wives were to be married" (The Seer, p. 172).
so, what your prophet claimed wasn't an accurate claim after all?
Also find within the Bible any example at all of any apostle doing a bi proxy baptism for anyone.
Where does the Bible teach that there is a spirit world after death for a second chance (I mean even the book of Mormon says that there is NO chance after death)? If marriage is essential to achieve exaltation, why did Paul say that it is good for a man not to marry (1 Corinthians 7:1)?
How can worthy Mormon males become Gods in the afterlife when God already said that before him no God was formed, nor will there be any Gods formed after him (Isaiah 43:10)?
Why does the LDS Church teach that Jesus and Lucifer are spirit brothers when both the first chapter of John and Colossians teach that Jesus is the Creator of all things, including Lucifer?
@angelcollector22 Not true. The ancient temples were also limited. Gentiles, anyone who wasn't a Jew, could only go into the "court of the Gentiles". Gentiles were not allowed into any part of the temples that did the ordinances. This is because the Jews were the chosen people.
What I am saying is that anyone can read the Old Testament and there is a record of what when on in the temple. A Lutheran, a Baptist, a Mormon, a Satanist, a Wiccan......etc...they can all know and read for themselves about the temple in the Bible....
not true with the Mormon temple, its considered secret.....no one can know..no one can know your new name or what goes on...
Of course, we know, because people who have left LDS can now church tell us.
@angelcollector22 Similarly, the temples of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints are the same way. You can wait outside the temple but you cannot enter the temple where ordinances are done while we can since we're members of Jesus Christ's church and since Jesus is the Son of God that makes the temple God's temple.
"You can wait outside the temple but you cannot enter the temple"
There is a difference between not being allowed in the temple and not being allowed to know what goes on in there. Not even LDS new members get to know.
John 20:28 - And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”
John 14:9-11 - Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?”
John 8:24 - “Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I AM He, you will die in your sins.”
Was talking to a member in 1st Ward Fayetteville today and we were talking about members we both know from years ago . She told of one that came to Church on Memorial Day . He hasn't been to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day
Saints for 10 years . But decided it was time to come back . So there is hope for all of you . Good Luck . Take Care. There are simple answers to all of these questions but these anti guys don't want you to know that . Misery loves company I guess.
I'm a born-again Christian, and to all my Mormon friends out there, we love you guys and aren't so concerned about what religious denomination or affiliation your, or anybody else is a part of, but if you've had a true face-to-face encounter w/ the Jesus Christ of the Bible. I'm not so concerned about religion as relationship. Peace
Deuteronomy 4:2 has a very similar passage to Revelation 22:18-19. Should I discard everything following Deut 4:2????? No.
The Holy Bible was written anciently to the people of that day. The Book of Mormon was written anciently to the people of our day. The D&C was written in our day for the people of our day.
Regardless of when they were written and to whom, they're still true, as far as they're translated correctly. Thank God we have true prophets today.
i've watched two of these videos so far... it's heart-wrenching. and not in a good way. I see a light that has gone out. They talk of knowledge yet present no facts, Talk to the mormon missionaries, they will direct you in the paths, or back into the paths of truth and grace. Jesus is my Savior. He is yours too. He loves us all, Mormon or not. I just wish the best for this young girl and that she won't close any doors to the truth due to the opinions of friends.
@rambojoe2323 How will Mormon missionaries direct you to the truth? They are mostly 19-20 year olds who dont really know what they are teaching. Why do they send such young people as missionaries? Alot of Mormons say that everyone else is not well informed about the church but I think that the members arent really well informed about the church either about whats really going on.
Jesus Chick? Seriously folks.
jshendryx 2 months ago
@SciBishop "Book of Mormon is mined from the scriptures of the Bible since Joseph could simply have used it."
False. Emma Young verified that Joseph Smith had no book with him other than the Golden Plates. Her words are documented.
majinish 6 months ago
Read the book and take the blinders off! its a book of God!
PyroGuy199 6 months ago
BOOK OF MORMON is a fancy fantacy book... which can never be compared to The HOLY BIBLE... ! Joseph smith lost his soul to fantacy & selfishness took over & so he started a cult like LDS which offers a way away from the God of Abraham ! Praise Jesus Im NOT LDS ! Thumbs up vid.
jinu03 7 months ago
"Some revelations are of God: some revelations are of men: and some revelations are of the devil." per Joseph Smith revelation after he got an incorrect revelation.
I wonder how they tell which is which if they are all revelation.
Maybe all LDS revelation is of the devil...how would they know?
Thats curious.
Its like going around and around in happy little circles.
angelcollector22 8 months ago
Broaden your understanding of the world around you and it will make sense how a person can know Him without doing veils and handshakes inside a temple.
Why..... a person kind find the one true God on a deserted island with only the book of John, his own humble heart, and a God who is there and listens to the pleading of that heart.
You know its a cult when you confine the Savior into a little temple or church shaped box.
Wake up!
angelcollector22 8 months ago
It kind of boggles the mind....how many many people in this world that have found Jesus, and especially people in countries where it is illegal to attend a Christian church, let alone a Mormon church.....yet, these people who worship Jesus in secret, they have a relationship with Jesus.
Jesus wants the hearts of every sinner, not just the ones who are in the church I attend or in a Mormon church.
angelcollector22 8 months ago
Trying to figure out how you gain a relationship with Jesus Christ by leaving the church when The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is Jesus Christ's church.
majinish 8 months ago
@majinish
Its simple really...Jesus Christ wants all men to repent and come to Him.
Heres a thought for you:
No temple ordinances is needed to know Christ and belong to Him.
Come find the real Jesus.
angelcollector22 8 months ago
@angelcollector22 I do know the REAL Jesus. I've made holy and sacred covenants with the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and I don't intend to break them to the Son of God.
majinish 8 months ago
@majinish
Those covenants are not necessary for salvation or eternal life (eternal life meaning spending eternity in Gods presence)....your covenant handshakes and hand passing through the veil and the eternal marriage are not biblical...they are man made and contrary to the Bible and the will of God.
To each his own beliefs, you have free agency to decide on a man made ritual.
However, those of us who don't do LDS handshakes have a relationship with Christ that is outside of rituals.
angelcollector22 8 months ago
@angelcollector22 Yet God is pleased when his true followers are willing to make promises with Him.
@"and the eternal marriage are not biblical" Do yourself a favor and read the Bible again. We teach Jesus Christ's gospel, not things contrary to the Bible. I have a relationship with Jesus Christ who died on the cross who's church I'm a member of and that's The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.
majinish 8 months ago
I know my Bible and eternal marriage is not found in the pages of the Holy Bible and it isn't even in your book of Mormon..its in other LDS writings.
God is not pleased with promises that are based on men attaining godhood.
You need to do some reading yourself.
Yes, Jesus Christ who is God Almighty did die on the cross...however, your Jesus is not the Biblical Jesus. Hes a Jesus formed in the imaginations of man.
You won't find most of Mormon doctrine in the Bible OR the book of Mormon
angelcollector22 8 months ago
@majinish
Let alone that fact that everything that LDS is based on is a lie...if you are able to come to that realization, then the Bible will come alive with truth.
Did you know that Joseph Smiths claimed vision was a duplicate of a fiction book from prior to his supposed vision? His vision has direct, undisputed quotes from that book...quotes, not same thoughts or ideas, but QUOTES from a fiction book.
Research the REAL history of LDS.....you will find huge GAPING holes and mistruths, lies
angelcollector22 8 months ago
@angelcollector22 We teach the truth and nothing else. I do know what the Bible says and it doesn't say anything about the false "trinity" doctrine. I know the real history. I don't go by what the world says, I go by what the Holy Ghost says and it's let me know the church is true so I will not turn my back on it or Jesus Christ and his church.
majinish 8 months ago
@majinish
I have just shown you a tremendous amount of the Bible that says Jesus is God, so, we have two of the trinity proven.....so lets now prove the Holy Spirit is also God:
angelcollector22 8 months ago
John 14:16-18 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another [and this word in Greek means: another of the same kind] Helper, that He may abide with you forever -- the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. I will not leave you orphans; I WILL COME TO YOU.
Here we have Jesus saying that He would send the Holy Spirit and that it would be HE that comes to you.
angelcollector22 8 months ago
Now since you accuse me of just isolating a verse, I will now choose other parts of the Bible to prove some more that Jesus and God are also the Holy Spirit:
are you ready?
angelcollector22 8 months ago
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@majinish
Luke 12:10
And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.
But you can only blaspheme against God, so it is clear from this that the Holy Spirit is God, not Gabriel or some other spirit sent by God.
angelcollector22 8 months ago
Also another trinity verse, also from over 600 years prior to Christ:
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, COUNSELLER, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
The holy spirit is name here as counseller, Jesus the prince of peace is mentioned here, and the mighty God is mentioned as well as the everlasting Father.
But yet, this passage said HE shall be called, not THEY.
angelcollector22 8 months ago
@angelcollector22 @"Also another trinity verse" What "another"? You haven't given one yet. That doesn't teach the trinity either. "Mighty God", it doesn't say "almighty". Those things are speaking of Jesus.
majinish 8 months ago
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@majinish
again, use the whole Bible:
Revelation 1:8 - “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the ALMIGHTY.”
Here we have Jesus calling Himself the ALMIGHTY.
Also, the verse I quoted from Isaiah says that the Messiah is also the EVERLASTING FATHER...how can that be?
angelcollector22 8 months ago
@majinish
"Those things are speaking of Jesus."
Please tell me how Jesus can be the everlasting Father?
Is there more than one everlasting Father?....or do you think that when Isaiah wrote that that Jesus already was the Father spirit of spirit children?
How can both Fathers be everlasting if Jesus was the spirit offspring of God?
angelcollector22 8 months ago
@majinish
"You haven't given one yet."
Thats puzzling.
In denial again?
angelcollector22 8 months ago
@angelcollector22 No. Just waiting for you to give verses that describe the "trinity". Good luck since there's none in the Bible.
majinish 8 months ago
@majinish
You have ignored all the verses that prove Jesus, God, and the Holy Spirit are ONE GOD...thats called willfull ignorance.
angelcollector22 8 months ago
@angelcollector22 There are no verses that say they are one God so there's nothing to ignore. The Father is the one true God. I go by what the scriptures teach and that includes the Bible. It doesn't teach of your false "trinity" so there's no need to believe in it when it's not a true doctrine.
majinish 8 months ago
@majinish
"I go by what the scriptures teach and that includes the Bible. It doesn't teach of your false "trinity" "
again, why would Isaiah say that the Messiah is the everlasting Father if He is not?
angelcollector22 8 months ago
@majinish
You are taught that they trinity is false.
The Bible clearly shows differently.
So......you believe the Bible so far as it is translated correctly....
so if you don't accept the many many passages I quoted, you, in essence, believe that MOST of the Bible is mistranslated, with the exception of a few verses that agree with LDS beliefs (that are not even written in the book of Mormon, that is supposed to be the fullness of the gospel and the most correct book ever written)
angelcollector22 8 months ago
@angelcollector22 @"You are taught that they trinity is false." Wrong. I never heard of the false "trinity" until a few years ago. I looked it up, having read the entire Bible, and found the "trinity" to be one of the most unbiblical teachings ever created.
@"The Bible clearly shows differently." It doesn't teach the "trinity", not once. I accept the Bible and what it teaches. I don't accept your version of what it says. I accept what the Spirit says the Bible says.
majinish 8 months ago
@majinish
Now, you say you looked it up.
So did I and I have posted about 99% percent more than you have from the Bible itself to the contrary of what you claim.
angelcollector22 8 months ago
@angelcollector22 And yet you've understood 0% of what you've posted.
majinish 8 months ago
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@majinish
And yet you've understood 0% of what you've posted.
What is so difficult to understand that when Colossians says that nothing consisted before Jesus created it.. that, well, nothing existed before Jesus created?
What do you think it means?
Does nothing mean nothing or does nothing mean something?
angelcollector22 8 months ago
@majinish
whether you were paying attention or not within the LDS church, they do actively teach that the trinity is a false concept....
angelcollector22 8 months ago
@angelcollector22 Oh I know the church teaches the "trinity" concept is false, since it is; but again, I never even heard of the "trinity" concept until a few years ago. In our ward this concept hasn't even been discussed. Since it's a false concept there's no reason to talk about it.
majinish 8 months ago
@majinish
No, it doesn't have to be discussed to be actively teaching that God had sex to produce Jesus. therefore making Jesus Gods literal son.
angelcollector22 8 months ago
@majinish
"I don't accept your version of what it says."
The version I have quoted is KING JAMES version and thats what you use in your church.
So, how is it my version if I have quoted from a Bible we both use?
angelcollector22 8 months ago
@angelcollector22 I accept what the Bible says, again, I do not accept what YOUR version of what you claim the Bible says. In other words I don't accept what YOU have tried to make the Bible say. You've spoken of the "trinity" while the Bible teaches of something different.
majinish 8 months ago
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@majinish
"I don't accept what YOU have tried to make the Bible say."
So, Isaiah was lying when He said Messiah is the everlasting Father?
angelcollector22 8 months ago
@majinish
"You've spoken of the "trinity" while the Bible teaches of something different."
The Bible speaks often of Jesus, God and the Holy Spirit being One God...not one in purpose.
Just because the word trinity is not in there does not mean the concept is not there in spades.
You are in denial because it would mean that your striving to attain godhood would be in vain.
angelcollector22 8 months ago
@majinish
The real Jesus was not the result of a sexual union with God and Mary. The real Jesus was never a man. The real Jesus is God eternal as the Bible says. The real Jesus is not Satans spirit brother or yours or my spirit brother.
You are making covenants to someone different.
If you want to know the real Jesus, study the Bible.
Those covenants that you have done are Freemason rituals that do nothing for your relationship with God.
angelcollector22 8 months ago
@angelcollector22 And I've always wondered why you people say we believe God had sex with Mary. We believe in the VIRGIN birth.
@"The real Jesus was never a man." Jesus was never a man? That's funny because the New Testament shows he was. Jesus is the SON of God. So the scriptures are wrong when they describe Jesus as "he"?
@"The real Jesus is God eternal as the Bible says" What the Bible says is the Father is the only true God. Jesus was the one that said this.
majinish 8 months ago
@majinish
Your own LDS writings say that Jesus was conceived through normal sexual relations. This means that if God is the Father and Mary is the Mother that normal sexual relations happened between God and Mary to produce Jesus.
When I say Jesus was never a man, what I mean is that Jesus was not a mortal regular man who over time progressed to godhood as your church teaches....He has always been God Almighty, he became a man specifically to die for His creation.
angelcollector22 8 months ago
@majinish
Matthew 1:23 - “Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,” which is translated, “God with us.”
Isaiah 9:6 - For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
angelcollector22 8 months ago
@majinish
Revelation 1:8 - “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”
Revelation 22:13 - “I AM the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”... 22:16 - “I, JESUS, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches.”
angelcollector22 8 months ago
@angelcollector22 No, I make covenants with God the Father and Jesus Christ. I do study the Bible and I do know the REAL Jesus. The covenants I make to GOD are nothing but holy and sacred.
majinish 8 months ago
@majinish
John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God... 1:14 - And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us,
John 8:58 - Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
1 Timothy 3:16 - And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: GOD WAS MANIFESTED IN THE FLESH, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.
angelcollector22 8 months ago
@angelcollector22 No, those don't indicate the false "trinity". Jesus being called God in this refers to him being the Son of the ONLY true God and that's the Father.
majinish 8 months ago
@majinish
You are in denial.
If the Bible says that the word WAS GOD, not a god...but God and that God became FLESH...
If the Bible says that GOD WAS MANIFESTED IN THE FLESH...
If the prophet Isaiah said that the Messiah that would come would be EVERLASTING FATHER and MIGHTY GOD....
If Jesus calls Himself I AM....
so on and so on...
Then Jesus is GOD and you are in heavy denial because your church and your temple endowments have taught you another gospel...
They are wrong.
Find Jesus.
angelcollector22 8 months ago
@angelcollector22 Not in denial. I've heard people attempt to use John 1:1 for the "trinity". It doesn't work or fit the "trinity" concept. 1 Corinthians 8:6 states that to us there is ONE God and that is the Father. Not 3-in-1. I like how you contradict yourself. You claim Jesus to be the one true God yet I'm sure you don't believe in the "as man is God once was" phrase. By your personal belief, not the scriptures, you're saying Jesus never had flesh and bones.
majinish 8 months ago
"By your personal belief, not the scriptures, you're saying Jesus never had flesh and bones. "
Heres the difference:
Your church believes way back in eternity past that the way Almighty God became God was through being a good human. And that Jesus reaches Godhood the same way.
The Bible teaches that Jesus is the eternal God as Isaiah said. This means that God, being, well, God....has always been, then He manifested as a man for the salvation of the world..He was still God while here.
angelcollector22 8 months ago
@majinish
"Son of the ONLY true God and that's the Father."
If Jesus is the son in the literal sense...
Then, by that logic, Jesus was conceived through sexual relations..
and.....God is not a sexual being...
therefore when Jesus was God manifested in flesh, it means that God became flesh and dwelt among us.....just as the Bible says.
angelcollector22 8 months ago
@angelcollector22 The Father is the only true God. Jesus is simply called "God" because he's the Son of the the only true God. The Bible says the Father is the only true God while Jesus is the Son of God and our Lord and Savior.
majinish 8 months ago
@majinish
"Jesus is simply called "God" because he's the Son of the the only true God. "
Why would Jesus be called God in several places if there is only one true God?
Why does your church teach that its people can attain godhood if there is only one true God?
angelcollector22 8 months ago
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@angelcollector22 You obviously don't get the difference between ONE true God and Jesus being called "our" God.
@"Why does your church teach that its people can attain godhood if there is only one true God?"
The Bible. As there be gods many, and lords many to us there is one God and that is the Father. And in case you plan on criticizing that comment it comes straight from 1 Corinthians 8:5.
majinish 8 months ago
"As there be gods many, and lords many to us there is one God"
First of all, you are doing just what you accused me of, you are picking one verse and going with it while ignoring a ton other passages.
"Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me was NO GOD formed, neither shall there be after me." Isaiah 43:10
And, yes please read 1 cor 8:7, that passage is talking about false gods (not real)
angelcollector22 8 months ago
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@majinish
"You obviously don't get the difference between ONE true God and Jesus being called "our" God."
There is only one God, thats why He's God....only One can be eternal, all powerful, all knowing, the creator.
angelcollector22 8 months ago
@majinish
Why do you think Jesus refers to Himself as THE ALMIGHTY????
Revelation 1:8 - “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, THE ALMIGHTY.”
Revelation 22:13 - “I AM the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”... 22:16 - “I, JESUS, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches.”
angelcollector22 8 months ago
@angelcollector22 Because he's the Son of the Almighty.
majinish 8 months ago
@majinish
I'm guessing that you haven't read in detail any of the verses I have posted because it makes your churches doctrine come crashing down.
When an LDS faithful posts a verse whether from the Bible or from BoM or other LDS writings, I read it, I pick it apart for the sole purpose of knowing truth.
If you pick these verses apart, you will only find the truth is that Jesus is God......if you want to remain in denial cause its safer for you, then you will plug your ears to these verses.
angelcollector22 8 months ago
@angelcollector22 @"If you pick these verses apart" That's where you go wrong. You see the Bible as nothing more than individual verses. I see the Bible as a whole. If you look at the Bible as individual verses you'll never understand it, God the Father, or Jesus Christ. I don't plug my ears to the Bible. I read and study it. I know the truth and the truth is the Father is the only true God as it was Jesus who said this.
majinish 8 months ago
@majinish
"If you pick these verses apart" That's where you go wrong. You see the Bible as nothing more than individual verses."
I see the Bible as a complete whole work and by reading the whole Bible, the conclusion is that Jesus is God....its a no brainer.
angelcollector22 8 months ago
@majinish
The reason I quoted MANY verses from the Bible is a great testament to the fact that you can't use individual verses, but have to use the whole Bible....some of the verses I quoted were written down over 600 years before Christ was born, some are statements that Jesus made and some are the testimony of the apostles. You can easily prove Jesus is God if you dare look at the Bible in its entirety, which I HAVE DONE.
angelcollector22 8 months ago
@majinish
And, furthermore, LDS handpicks individual verses more than anyone else I can think of.
For instance the bi proxy baptism that is a false doctrine, they can only find one verse in the Bible that if they compound that verse with an untruth, they deceive people.
Or the prophet Jeremiah...they handpick ONE verse there to try to prove that the Book of Mormon was prophesied to be written.
Don't accuse me of something your church does in spades.
angelcollector22 8 months ago
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@majinish
2 Corinthians 3:17
"Now the Lord IS the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. "
want more?
angelcollector22 8 months ago
2 Corinthians 13:5
Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is IN YOU?
John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for HE DWELLETH IN YOU and will be with you, and shall be IN YOU.
Here we have Jesus Christ dwelling in us and the Holy Spirit also capable of living in us.
angelcollector22 8 months ago
according to the verses below, the Holy Spirit has divine characteristics:
Ps 139:7-12; John 14:17-18 - omniscient 1 Cor 2:10 - grace Zechariah 12:10; Hebr. 10:29 - holiness, glory Romans 1:4; 1 Peter 4:14 - life Romans 8:2,10; 2 Cor 3:6 - love Romans 15:30; 2 Tim 1:7 - unsearchable greatness Isaiah 40:13 - truth John 14:17; 15:26: 16:13; 1 John 5:6 - where the Spirit is, there is power Acts 1:8; 2 Tim 1:7; Romans 15:13,19 - sovereignty John 3:8; 1 Cor 12:11
But, you said there is only ONE God
angelcollector22 8 months ago
How can Jesus and Michael have organized the world if one of them is not God ALMIGHTY?
By the way, Jesus did not organize the world, He, being God, created it:
For by Jesus were all things CREATED (NOT ORGANIZED) that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers; all things were created by him, and for him: and he is before all things, and by him all things consist. ...” (Col. 1:15-18).
angelcollector22 8 months ago
@angelcollector22 Jesus created the world not by his will but by the will of God and God is the Father.
majinish 8 months ago
@majinish
"Jesus created the world "
Your temple endowment teaches, Jesus AND MICHAEL organized the world, not created it.
And how can Jesus create the world by the will of your separate God Almighty if Colossians 1:15 says that He created all things, whether visible or unvisible, principalities and powers and HE IS BEFORE ALL THINGS AND IN HIM ALL THINGS CONSIST. That means He is before ANY GOD....why? Because He is God.
angelcollector22 8 months ago
@angelcollector22 The Bible says Jesus created the earth. It doesn't say he's the sole creator of the earth. God said to let "us" create. Meaning there was more than one being involved.
@"of your separate God Almighty" The Father is God of all. The Father is Almighty. You're still denying the existence of the Father who is to us, meaning everyone, the one true God.
majinish 8 months ago
@majinish
The Father is not in all of us. As a matter of fact the Bible clearly teaches that before conversion to Christ, we belong to "your father the devil"
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
John 15 as stated by Jesus
angelcollector22 8 months ago
@angelcollector22 Jesus told Mary that the Father is our Father. I guess you think Jesus was joking. Jesus was speaking, in John 15, of those that sin willfully and who aren't repentant.
majinish 8 months ago
@majinis
God is our Father in the sense that he created us, he did not produce spirit children. That concept is not biblical.
angelcollector22 8 months ago
@majinish
Was Jesus joking when he said that He is the I AM?
Was Jesus joking when He called Himself God Almighty in Revelation?
Was Jesus joking when He called Himself the Holy Spirit in John 14?
Was it a lie in Colossians when it says that everything consists through Jesus creating it, even things invisible and visible?
angelcollector22 8 months ago
@ma
Now let me ask you to find within the Bible these LDS concepts:
God having sex with goddess wives to produce spirit children.
Michael the archangel being active in creation.
Handshakes needed to enter a celestial kingdom.
Eternal marriage needed to enter the celestial kingdom.
Murderers being able to go to a kingdom that Smith claimed was so wonderful that you would kill yourself just to get there.
plural marriage being a necessity for the highest kingdom (its still in your D&C)
angelcollector22 8 months ago
@angelcollector22 @"God having sex with goddess wives to produce spirit children." Not something the church has ever taught. If you got that from the movie "Godmakers" you can't and won't be taken seriously.
@"Michael the archangel being active in creation." Given by revelation from God. Nobody really knows about why the handshake thing was done. However, it predates Masonry. The Bible says what God binds don't let "man", meaning death in this case, put asunder. Death cant break what God binds
majinish 8 months ago
@majinish
"However, it predates Masonry."
You prove that statement.
By all records, Smith brought the handshake into the church from Freemasons, since he was a freemason prior to the introduction of the handshake into the LDS church.
One thing we DO know...the handshake has not one tiny shred of Biblical backing to it.
angelcollector22 8 months ago
@majinish
"God having sex with goddess wives to produce spirit children."
You tell me how God produces spirit children without sex.
Did he create them?
Or are we all really his children?
It cracks me up....you LDS seem to think that us who are speaking against LDS lies have not done our research.
The goddess wives is a concept that it written in LDS writings. Every LDS concept I hear about, I go right to the source because I don't want to accuse based on heresay.
angelcollector22 8 months ago
@majinish
I have actually had a Mormon tell me who they think at least one of the goddess wives were that helped produce all the billions of spirit children.
angelcollector22 8 months ago
@majinish
"Jesus is the only person who had our Heavenly Father as the father of his body" (Family Home Evening Manual, 1972, pp.125-126).
"suffice it to say that our Lord was born of a virgin, which is fitting and proper, and also natural, since the Father of the Child was an immortal Being...He is the Son of God in the same sense and way that we are the sons of mortal fathers" (The Promised Messiah, pp.466, 468)
you only call her virgin because her literal biological Father is immortal.
angelcollector22 8 months ago
@angelcollector22 Ok, so you care to say who is the father of the body of Christ?
majinish 8 months ago
@majinish
Well....I bet if you read your Bible, you might know how Christ was conceived......
But, hmmmm...that would go against your heretical teaching....do you really want to know how He was conceived, or would you just like to know only what your church teaches?
I know you have been instructed not to question....but, you should.
angelcollector22 8 months ago
@angelcollector22 I have read the Bible.
@"you might know how Christ was conceived" Nobody will know that by reading any of the scriptures. And no, he wasn't conceived by the Holy Ghost. Mary was found with child who was OF the Holy Ghost. Being OF and BY the Holy Ghost are 2 different things.
majinish 8 months ago
@majinish
Jesus was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit and not by the natural relations with God
angelcollector22 8 months ago
@angelcollector22 That would make Jesus the Son of the Holy Ghost and not the Son of the Father which is contrary to the Bible. And the church hasn't taught he was conceived the way you claim we believe. He was of the Holy Spirit/Ghost, not conceived by it. The Bible does not say HOW he was conceived.
majinish 8 months ago
"That would make Jesus the Son of the Holy Ghost"
You know what your problem is?
You cannot seem to get away from the concept that everything a eternal God has created also means that He had to be literal Father of.
God is not sexual, He is creator.
If he has the power to count the hairs on your head and make the sun rise and speak creation into existence by saying "Let here be", than He could have just as much power to come to His creation in the form of a baby with His power alone
angelcollector22 8 months ago
@majinish
And since the Bible claims she was a virgin, then, yes....she was conceived by Gods power alone.
Do you really, if you really sit down and think about it, do you really think that God Almighty has a penis, gets an erection, and ejaculates into the body of a woman?
C'mon.....you know that it is simply not true
angelcollector22 8 months ago
Matthew 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child OF THE HOLY GHOST.
It does not say "by" it does not say that anyone bedded Mary. You cannot find that anywhere within the pages of the Bible.
Isaiah himself didn't even prophecy that key concept that you are trying to pull...A virgin shall conceive a son. A virgin cannot conceive a son by anything other than the creator willing it
angelcollector22 8 months ago
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@majinish
"And the church hasn't taught he was conceived the way you claim we believe."
you need to do some more research, because that is not true.
angelcollector22 8 months ago
@majinish
"fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. "
Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,
Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, GOD WITH US.
angelcollector22 8 months ago
@majinish
Oh, and I have not watched the movie Godmakers. I am only reading my Bible and the book of Mormon doctrine (which is terribly in conflict)
angelcollector22 8 months ago
@angelcollector22 Too bad for you what you've said isn't doctrine. And no, they do not conflict.
majinish 8 months ago
@majinish
oh....I know, I know.....anything that LDS has changed since its inception to make their quacky beliefs seem more palatable, is no longer doctrine.
Thats the really neat part of all this...reading LDS history and knowing the wacky doctrines or beliefs from your quacky so called prophet from its early days just to know for sure that something isn't quite right.
Its downright willful ignorance to still fall for the nonsense after knowing what smith and his cronies believed/taught
angelcollector22 8 months ago
@majinish
Not that todays doctrine isn't quacky, its just less quacky than the original utter nonsense. Now its just utter nonsense from a new generation of the willfully ignorant.
angelcollector22 8 months ago
@angelcollector22 What we believe in is the truth. You're pretty much saying the gospel of Jesus Christ is "quacky".
majinish 8 months ago
@majinish
It depends on which gospel of Christ is truth....and we all know that there is only one truth.
Is it as the Bible says?
or is it:
#1 based on a supposed vision of Smith that was copied from the German book "the Golden Pot"? (published in 1814)
#2 based on a god that has sexual intercourse with goddesses to produce spirit children?
#3 based on a heavenly realm that has a council of gods?
#4 based on a Christ who has Lucifer as his brother?
One is truth and one is not truth
angelcollector22 8 months ago
@angelcollector22 I already told you it's never been taught that the Father had sex with anyone. Nowhere in the history of the church has that been taught. The Bible teaches the truth as does the Book of Mormon. They both support each other. Since the Bible proves the Book of Mormon is true that means the Bible also proves Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God.
majinish 8 months ago
@majinish Amen bro! True book indeed.
PyroGuy199 6 months ago
@angelcollector22
What does the bible say the Gospel of Christ is?
#1 Another thoery with little or no proof... just an accusation to seed doubt... good one... That is the same tactic satan uses.
2# Where is this taught? Oh ya... godmakers... a propaganda video with no truth in it... We now know you are decieved.
3# What do you think the trinity would be? Anyways... council of gods is not Gods. god would be another name for the children of God... it is a tradition thing...
Sk8er408 5 months ago
@Sk
#1 Smiths vision of being copied from a fiction book is indeed a theory...a very good one, though...it has exact word for word phrases in the book of Mormon from that book (several of them)
#2 Never watched the godmakers and couldn't give you one inkling as to what it is about except that you have told me the title and I can sorta guess.
#3 The trinity is God, not gods. And yes council of gods would be the children of a god as you think any god who has ever existed was procreated.
angelcollector22 5 months ago
@angelcollector22
#1lets see this "exact word for word phrases" then
#2it is where all the lies come from that U think R truth sad really that it is taught as truth still shows what U know & don't know
#3 God is God the trinity is a made up theory 2 define an unknown god. I nor LDS do not believe God or anyone else was procreated. This just shows how much you know. LDS believe that we are all eternal, that our spiritual birth was more of a given meaning 2 us. ex nihilo is false in every way
Sk8er408 5 months ago
@Sk8er408
What I meant to convey, which I failed at is this:
Smiths version of his vision was copied from The Golden Pot.
I had said that the book of Mormon was copied from the Golden pot.
What I actually meant to say was that his vision and his story of how he found the plates were copied from a book of his day.
I will find you those exact phrases.
angelcollector22 5 months ago
@angelcollector22
Really... the golden pot? Have you read it?
I think you need to research your wacky claims...
Sk8er408 5 months ago
@angelcollector22
4# lucifer... son of the morning a fallen anger a son of God... As all of us are.. but satan denied who we was and as such has no part...
Are you the brother of Jesus?
Sk8er408 5 months ago
@Sk8er408
I am not the brother of anyone.
And, no, I am not a sister of Jesus.
angelcollector22 5 months ago
@angelcollector22
So you are not a child of God then? Fine.
FYI... brother is universal.
Sk8er408 5 months ago
@Sk8er408
Nope not a child of the LDS god...yeah, thanks but no thanks.
I am very happy to worship the one true God who created me...no thanks, I don't want a god who is having continuous celestial sex with goddess wives...ewwww
angelcollector22 5 months ago
@angelcollector22
You are not a child of God? You deny the sacrifice of this Son?
It is not only ignorant of you but quite bigoted to propagate such lies after you have been repeatedly told this is false and there is no creditable evidence to back it... I would say your father is he who is the father of lies as you seem to love them so.
Sk8er408 5 months ago
@Sk8er408
I am a child of God through adoption, not procreation.
I do not deny Gods sacrifice for my sin and I have accepted Him. His holy Spirit dwells in me. In this way, I am an adopted daughter of God Almighty. This only happened when I gave my life to Christ. I have not always been His daughter. Of course, I was His creation. He spoke humans into existence. In this way, He is Father of us all because He created us. That does not mean literal Father.
LDS lies to you.
angelcollector22 5 months ago
@angelcollector22
No one said you were through procreation.
Adoption would be a metaphor... do you even know what it means?
Your youth pastor lied to you.
I'm not sure how you know LDS lied to me... All my studies have been independent.
Can you tell me why you are an "adopted daughter of God" but why LDS are not?
Sk8er408 5 months ago
@Sk8er408
You are not a member of the LDS church?
angelcollector22 5 months ago
@angelcollector22
Shocking... I know... why would one that is not a member defend them right?
Sk8er408 5 months ago
@Sk8er408
Then maybe you could share why you defend a religion you are not a member of.
And, if you then are earnestly defending the LDS faith, what is stopping you from joining?
I would like to know those two answers, please.
Thanks!
angelcollector22 5 months ago
@angelcollector22
Are you Christian?
If you are why are you attacking others faith in Christ?
I defend all religions. When the Jew condemns the Samaritan he is only condemning himself.
Sk8er408 5 months ago
@Sk8er408
1) Yes I am a Christian
2) Where did I attack anyone?
3) So, are you a universalist?
4) You never answered why you have not joined the LDS church.
5) you claim you defend ALL religions, but I googled your username and it seems that the only religion you defend at least on the internet (and ALL over the internet) is LDS...why?
6) You cannot be in defense of ALL religions if you are not in defense of evangelical Christianity.
angelcollector22 5 months ago
@angelcollector22
You dont act it.
You sure like to use propaganda and lies... I call that attacking.
I'm a follower of Christ.
Why should I?
It is the one that is attacked most often. It started when i noticed the campaign to dislike the "I'm Mormon" vids. When people attack others I call them on it.
I dont define EC as propagating lies...
Sk8er408 5 months ago
@angelcollector22 God can choose to forgive anyone. And so what if plural marriage is still in D&C? What does that have to do with it? Just because it's there doesn't mean it's practiced anymore. If I'm not mistaken the Old Testament still has an eye for an eye in it.
majinish 8 months ago
@majinish
"God can choose to forgive anyone."
God has said how forgiveness is possible and it is not reachable after death.
Even the book of Mormon says that the end of a life is too late to be saved.
angelcollector22 8 months ago
@angelcollector22 Then what was the point of Jesus preaching to the spirits in prison after the crucifixion and before the resurrection?
majinish 8 months ago
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@majinish
"Then what was the point of Jesus preaching to the spirits in prison after the crucifixion and before the resurrection?"
The Bible does not say preaching.....He was testifying to His fullfillment of overcoming death and Hell. He wasn't preaching to lost souls and that passage does not say that there were undecided dead that Jesus was preaching to.........thats an added LDS twist on the scriptures.
angelcollector22 8 months ago
@majinish
" And so what if plural marriage is still in D&C? What does that have to do with it? Just because it's there doesn't mean it's practiced anymore. "
Well, it is a HUGE deal that plural marriage is in the D&C because the D&C says that without plural marriage no man can attain the celestial kingdom.
Whether it is practiced or not isn't the point...the point is that your scriptures claim it a REQUIREMENT for exaltation.
Those LDS factions that practice it are obeying your gospel.
angelcollector22 8 months ago
@angelcollector22 And the Bible still says an eye for an eye. The teachings of the Judaism, of which the Old Testament teaches of, say a woman is to be stoned to death for being pregnant outside of marriage. So I guess you're saying we all should stone pregnant women who aren't married to death. We do obey the gospel of Jesus Christ.
majinish 8 months ago
@majinish
You know very well that the Old Testament laws were for those generation of JEWISH people.
I am seeing that anytime that Lord God makes a covenant with His people within the Bible, He has ALWAYS and consistently kept that covenant with His people.
Old Testament laws and actual covenants are completely separate concepts.
angelcollector22 8 months ago
@angelcollector22 Yet it's still in our scriptures. So by your standard we should kill pregnant, unmarried women.
@"He has ALWAYS and consistently kept that covenant with His people" Are you including the commandments with this?
majinish 8 months ago
@majinish
In Mormon theology a man can't become a god without a goddess and a woman can't become a goddess without a god.
Therefore, God had a goddess wife and both were once mortal who attained godhood through eternal marriage.
angelcollector22 8 months ago
@majinish
"Mary was concerned because of her betrothal to Joseph. The angel explained, ‘You and the Father will associate together in the capacity of Husband and Wife; hence, you will be, for at least a time, the lawful wife of God the Father. After He is finished with you, the Father will give you to Joseph. God will be your first husband’" (The Seer, p. 158).
angelcollector22 8 months ago
@majinish
Joseph Smith introduced polygamy and as being an "everlasting covenant" (D&C 132). The failure, he said, to abide in it is to be "damned".
Soooo..... why exactly aren't all of you who don't practice polygamy not damned?
What did Joseph Smith mean by everlasting covenant?
Does everlasting mean temporarily everlasting to your prophet?
angelcollector22 8 months ago
@angelcollector22 And it was given by revelation to do away with it. Things such as "an eye for an eye" were also changed.
majinish 8 months ago
@majinish
"And it was given by revelation to do away with it. "
But, it was everlasting covenant....I am certain you know how binding a COVENANT with almighty God is.
You are making excuses.
angelcollector22 8 months ago
@angelcollector22 Not excuses, just the simple truth. God can do away with what He chooses.
majinish 8 months ago
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@majinish
"God can do away with what He chooses."
Hmmmm,,,,,it seems the only covenants the God breaks are non biblical ones, right?
angelcollector22 8 months ago
@majinish
eye for eye was never claimed to be an EVERLASTING COVENANT that would lead to DAMNATION if not obeyed.
polygamy was the way to godhood and you know it.......you should accept that.
angelcollector22 8 months ago
@angelcollector22 Yet it was taught by the prophets of old so it's still the same thing.
majinish 8 months ago
@majinish
I think you LDS use the concept EVERLASTING quite flipantly.
angelcollector22 8 months ago
@angelcollector22 It's everlasting unless God says otherwise.
majinish 8 months ago
@majinish
"It's everlasting unless God says otherwise."
God kind of lied then when He claimed it was everlasting.
Just a little white lie never hurt anyone even if that lie comes from all knowing God Almighty?
Everlasting has always meant everlasting.
angelcollector22 8 months ago
"God the father had a plurality of wives…the son followed the example of his father, and became the great bridegroom to whom king’s daughters and many honorable wives were to be married" (The Seer, p. 172).
so, what your prophet claimed wasn't an accurate claim after all?
angelcollector22 8 months ago
@angelcollector22 Difference between doctrine and personal belief. This was Orson's personal belief.
majinish 8 months ago
@majinish
Oh yeah...here we go.....a prophet is only a prophet when it agrees with how you want to portray the church now.
angelcollector22 8 months ago
@majinish
Also find within the Bible any example at all of any apostle doing a bi proxy baptism for anyone.
Where does the Bible teach that there is a spirit world after death for a second chance (I mean even the book of Mormon says that there is NO chance after death)? If marriage is essential to achieve exaltation, why did Paul say that it is good for a man not to marry (1 Corinthians 7:1)?
angelcollector22 8 months ago
How can worthy Mormon males become Gods in the afterlife when God already said that before him no God was formed, nor will there be any Gods formed after him (Isaiah 43:10)?
angelcollector22 8 months ago
Why does the LDS Church teach that Jesus and Lucifer are spirit brothers when both the first chapter of John and Colossians teach that Jesus is the Creator of all things, including Lucifer?
angelcollector22 8 months ago
Why are Mormon Temple ceremonies secret to the public when the Old Testament temple ceremonies were open to public knowledge?
angelcollector22 8 months ago
@angelcollector22 Not true. The ancient temples were also limited. Gentiles, anyone who wasn't a Jew, could only go into the "court of the Gentiles". Gentiles were not allowed into any part of the temples that did the ordinances. This is because the Jews were the chosen people.
majinish 8 months ago
" The ancient temples were also limited. "
What I am saying is that anyone can read the Old Testament and there is a record of what when on in the temple. A Lutheran, a Baptist, a Mormon, a Satanist, a Wiccan......etc...they can all know and read for themselves about the temple in the Bible....
not true with the Mormon temple, its considered secret.....no one can know..no one can know your new name or what goes on...
Of course, we know, because people who have left LDS can now church tell us.
angelcollector22 8 months ago
@angelcollector22 Similarly, the temples of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints are the same way. You can wait outside the temple but you cannot enter the temple where ordinances are done while we can since we're members of Jesus Christ's church and since Jesus is the Son of God that makes the temple God's temple.
majinish 8 months ago
@majinish
"You can wait outside the temple but you cannot enter the temple"
There is a difference between not being allowed in the temple and not being allowed to know what goes on in there. Not even LDS new members get to know.
angelcollector22 8 months ago
@majinish
"that makes the temple God's temple"
Acts 7:48-50
Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,
Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?
Hath not my hand made all these things?
angelcollector22 8 months ago
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@majinish
"Jesus created the world not by his will but by the will of God"
Please give me a Bible reference that says Jesus was commanded by God to create the world.
angelcollector22 8 months ago
John 20:28 - And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”
John 14:9-11 - Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?”
John 8:24 - “Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I AM He, you will die in your sins.”
angelcollector22 8 months ago
@angelcollector22 And Jesus calls the Father his God. Since the Father is Jesus' God that does away with the "trinity" concept.
majinish 8 months ago
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are you 18?
tazandleroy 8 months ago
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Was talking to a member in 1st Ward Fayetteville today and we were talking about members we both know from years ago . She told of one that came to Church on Memorial Day . He hasn't been to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day
Saints for 10 years . But decided it was time to come back . So there is hope for all of you . Good Luck . Take Care. There are simple answers to all of these questions but these anti guys don't want you to know that . Misery loves company I guess.
mollymu1 9 months ago
I'm a born-again Christian, and to all my Mormon friends out there, we love you guys and aren't so concerned about what religious denomination or affiliation your, or anybody else is a part of, but if you've had a true face-to-face encounter w/ the Jesus Christ of the Bible. I'm not so concerned about religion as relationship. Peace
Drooblemeister 11 months ago 2
Deuteronomy 4:2 has a very similar passage to Revelation 22:18-19. Should I discard everything following Deut 4:2????? No.
The Holy Bible was written anciently to the people of that day. The Book of Mormon was written anciently to the people of our day. The D&C was written in our day for the people of our day.
Regardless of when they were written and to whom, they're still true, as far as they're translated correctly. Thank God we have true prophets today.
WinFREEsilver 11 months ago
I believe in the Bible. And Jesus. I don't need anything else. No extra books. No wannabe prophets. Jesus saves. Joseph Smith can't do anything.
EmoGamer 1 year ago
i've watched two of these videos so far... it's heart-wrenching. and not in a good way. I see a light that has gone out. They talk of knowledge yet present no facts, Talk to the mormon missionaries, they will direct you in the paths, or back into the paths of truth and grace. Jesus is my Savior. He is yours too. He loves us all, Mormon or not. I just wish the best for this young girl and that she won't close any doors to the truth due to the opinions of friends.
rambojoe2323 1 year ago
@rambojoe2323 How will Mormon missionaries direct you to the truth? They are mostly 19-20 year olds who dont really know what they are teaching. Why do they send such young people as missionaries? Alot of Mormons say that everyone else is not well informed about the church but I think that the members arent really well informed about the church either about whats really going on.
shvibzik123 1 year ago