How Shall We Judge?: Moral Absolutism vs. Relativism - Part1

[baydood510]

saw your videos..n i agreed.

[EdjeBos]

That's why I am against the death penalty. To judge a murderer and say: "We morally condemn your deed of taking someones life and therefore we are taking yours" is a contradiction. If we as a society condemn murder as an immoral act, to answer with murder is just as immoral.

[Mojobo83]

Whoa Buddy!!!! Fascism is a pretty moral absolutist stance - it's right to be this, not right to be anything different, Period. Try to be a little more objective, at least in your part 1. You brush off the self destructivness of imposed guilt and you flash Nazi images when you talk explain the consequenses of relitevism. Be more... Scholarly... yeah thats the word.

[Yuna0316]

OMG! youre so0o0o CUUUTE! n so0o0o smart (++++) hehe!

[emiljanowicz]

the third option is objectivism

[MrBenMcLean]

@emiljanowicz Actually Rand is a moral absolutist. She does reject the intrensicist theory of values that is common to most absolutists but she is nevertheless an absolutist and not a relativist. Rand would argue there are three theories of value: the intrensicist, the subjectivist and the objectivist. I am not sure whether Objectivism really counts as a third system of values but whether it does or not, Absolutism and Relativism are not specific theories of values in themselves but categories.

[stanleygarden]

Sam Harris presented a formidable lecture on precisely the harmful implications of moral relativism. His thesis basically consists on the way neuroscience will surely be our future source of moral truths. If we agree that morality is about happiness and suffering (which is why we don't have moral obligatins toward rocks and why our moral views vary toward crickets and monkeys) then we know that behavior which would maximize well being is a better choice than a behavior causing pain.

[vooooom]

Which behavior would maximize well being would be different for each individual and therefore relative. Neuroscience can't take into account personality.

[Israe5l]

An absolutist are people who believe in the absolute law. Even if they encounter exception. They will work around the exception and try to solve the matter off the records.

[larrycastle]

I can appreciate the need for precise thinking in philosophical matters like these so I'll concede that showing the errors of relativism do not prove absolutism. However, I still maintain that the same basic arguments that show the logical flaws of relativism when applied to the specifics of nihilism will reveal it's flaws.

All of that aside, on a practical note, do you sincerely subscribe to nihilism?

[larrycastle]

"Moral nihilism and epistemic nihilism are not the same"

I agree that they are not the same. One is the epistemology of a true philosophical naturalist and the other is the ethics of a true philosophical naturalist. The former is the foundation for the latter. Can you consistently hold to one without the other?

[larrycastle]

Your argumentation proves his position:

nihilism stipulates that "objective secular ethics are impossible; therefore, life has, in a sense, no truth, and no action is objectively preferable to any other" (From Wikipedia under "Nihilism"). Yet you insist that what he is saying is not true. If what he is saying can be determined to be NOT TRUE and what you are saying can be determined to be TRUE, then there is such a thing as truth, and some actions are objectively preferable to others.

[larrycastle]

"If nihilism is another possibility"

TheScholarBookWorm's arguments demonstrate that it is not another possibility but rather the only alternative to absolutism. Relativism is really a version of nihilism that allows for mutually agreed upon pragmatic standards and expectations of behavior. Nihilism is, in a sense, relativism without the hypocrisy. It is the only alternative to absolutism for a philosophical naturalist.

[larrycastle]

I just re-read my comment and I should apologize for the cheesy music comment. I just meant that I found it distracting during your speaking. I think it works in the intro and transitions.

[larrycastle]

Excellent treatment of the subject! I could do without the cheesy music, but great work with content and editing! Thanks for sharing your work.

[larrycastle]

He does defend against both by first showing that relativism is nihilism and second showing that humans universally experience firsthand evidence of absolutism in their internal compulsion to pursue morality (as they perceive it). Your very argumentation is evidence of the truth of his position.

[TheScholarBookWorm]

You may be right. On the other hand, relativism and nihilism might ammount to the same thing, which would make your objection a distinction without a difference. I think absolutism still stands, but you already know my position.

[Jitpring]

He's attacking primarily relativism rather than nihilism because modernity increasingly labors under a dictatorship of relativism, and most people are faithful subjects of this regime.

[partilov1]

Pain can also cause death indirectly as those who could no longer bear the pain could sometimes take the option of killing themselves

the body can go into shock which could lead to death

[StudentDan]

Great videos! I think you are incorrect on one point though. "Why do relativists teach relativism? Because they think it's right and they want you to believe it? Then there is a real right and a real wrong and relativism is false." A distinction needs to be made betweeen the rational right and wrong and the moral right and wrong. The former is based on the truth of a certain proposition(is it correct or incorrect?. Being wrong with the latter would render a person incorrect as well as immoral.

[TheScholarBookWorm]

Thanks for your comment.  It's nice to have someone agree with me.

[partilov1]

2:41-2:49

ok guilt is bad because of the psychological effects it has some times.

such as suicide

if guilt was good then it would prevent death however, in some cases it provokes death thus making it bad.

moving on

looks like lewis forgot the aztecs who well commited human sacrifice

and well protection of the weak isn't really found good by people like herbert spencer and Nazis and social darwinists.

or the eugenics era

[TheScholarBookWorm]

I'm not sure I would call that guilt, at least it certainly fails to perform the function of guilt: i.e., making you feel bad for doing something evil in order that you seek restitution (where possible) and not do it again in the future. I'd call the feeling that leads to suicide "despair."

I think 2 Corinthians 7:10 throws light on the situation: "Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death."

[partilov1]

no i would call that guilt

fear is a defense mechanism , but one can die of fear, pain is a defense mechanism,but pain can activate your sympathetic nervous system leading to "vasovagal shock" which is capable to stop the heart functions that would eventually lead to death.

[TheScholarBookWorm]

Perhaps, but I don't know many people who die from their guilt for cheating on a test or cheating on their spouse. Then again, they do die in the spiritual sense which we find so often on Jesus' lips. That, I think, is far more serious in the long run, and should demand much more of our attention than it seems to nowadays.

[partilov1]

moral intuitions are made by evolutionary means and evolution only adapts organisms to the environment

so different environment different morality

if we take the moral intuition of sharks(within a different environment)it contrasts with that of humans.

for example sharks either leave their babies and go off to mate again or they will eat them.

[TheScholarBookWorm]

See the sequel of this video (Part 2), which I think addresses your question.

[partilov1]

conscious morality i have an explanation for as well

mirror neurons which were evolutionary developed

account for conscious morality

[partilov1]

you must admit cults as well

and jim jones' cult as well

which morally does differ

satanism differs as well