American makes "Muslim Convert" stereotypes

[MrsHamdulila]

Im an American woman who grew up strict Protestant Christian & actually never got into the "drug/sex/drinking/party sceen. Actually the thing that drew me to Islam was the undeniable simplicity of tawheed. WORSHIPPING ONE GOD, doesnt it make sence?

God made earth & creatures it to glorify Him alone. God sent Messingers to deliver message"WORSHIP THE ONE GOD (creator, God of Abraham Isaac Moses, Jesus)ALONE"If we believe that why wouldnt we submit to THE ONE (allah) that sustains us? IE ISLAM

[shinaz000]

clevonamerica, are you in the process of converting? Sounds like it. Welcome in advance :)

[clevonamerica]

@shinaz000

thanks but im just floating right now

barakallahu fiki

bret

[HanafiTheMC100]

When she stops being so God willgive the mantle to someone else. God bless you.

[clevonamerica]

@HanafiTheMC100

wa barakalahu fik

bret

[HanafiTheMC100]

active undertaking by a person) are more familair with Islam the theology & less grounded in the concurent culture which is often amalgamated & passed of as religion.Regarding America & American culture I sincrely believe that American principles are not so far removed from Islamic principles & taht America is a good society. God is just & loves justice.God is not favouring any gruop or nation.God has permitted America to rule as in juxtaposition toother nations inc Muslim ones she is more fair.

[HanafiTheMC100]

Sir, as a convert(I dislike the term revert as theologically a persn is not born Muslim-a common misunderstanding even amongst Muslims but rather born on fitra-Origina Nature.This would apply toallchildren regardless of the creed of the parent.Islam as such rejects the notion of Original Sin. Many Muslims view Islamasa mere socio-cultural facet of character & as such donot understand it at any serious level-a common reality for many religions.Subsequntly, the Convert(the term itself implying an

[clevonamerica]

@HanafiTheMC100

thank you for your input

i appreciate it

bret

:)

[SalafeeSpot]

Were strerotyped as "too religious" " to strict" " always poor since we wont work haram ( impermissable) jobs". White converts and black american converts are always salafi or become salafi eventually. Salafi is the orthodox muslims. I would agree when you say convert women are liberal. I would never marry one since they have no drive to be orthodox ( usually).

[riyadomran]

there is something there. It's called the Quran .. read it and see by yourself !

[Sadin15]

Reverts I believe are not only brave but the reversion itself is a conscious choice. I was born to Muslim parents and it wasn't till I was 17 that I started to study Islam seriously. My family did practice the basic tenants but there was still a vacuum which needed to be filled and what actually motivated my personally was the behavior of reverts and their interest in Islam which encouraged me to value what I was born into. people like Yusuf Islam have been a huge motivation.

[clevonamerica]

@Sadin15

thank you for sharing your experience and perspective

bret

[IslamzSuperior]

Sure, materialism lowness makes people what throw up

[nakibx]

3. Yes, their are many individuals who become muslim due to a social pressure from friends/family/gangs etc. However, this emation soon waters down and the person either gets stronger or weaker as time passes by. It's a shame as Islam does not allow a person to be forcibly entered into Islam, contrary to the belief of many young, testosterone-pumped, impressionable young men.

[nakibx]

1. Yes, its is true. Reason being that the revert does not take this religion for granted unlike the majority of their 'raised-as-a-muslim' counterparts.

2. When one realizes the truth of any matter, let alone religion, they become passionate about it after taking up their position of belief.

[Mitsukii13]

In my opinion, converts tend to be more vocal because it is something they truly believe in. After all, they probably wouldn't have converted if they didn't have such strong feeling about the religion. I mean, if you are born a Muslim, it doesn't automatically mean you care for the religion or believe it 100%. That's how i felt about being born Christian. I didn't believe in it much and therefore wasn't a vocal or opinionated.

I'm a Muslim convert, by the way.

[oomzz]

The real truth is that people revert to Islam for the same reason that you are inquiring: the truth. After viewing a few of your videos, your agenda is obvious. Do me and everyone else who has bothered to respond to you a favor, and stop asking questions that you do not want answered. If you want to vent, come straight out with it and vent.

[URnignorant]

Whatever you call it "antedote" or sth else, the fact is people have been converting to Islam. People in America are converting or reverting not because they are against American culture as a whole but, when people convert, I believe It is divine guidance.

whoever Allah guides is rightly guided!

[mzkaddah]

Clevon America...just for your own knowledge THE AMERICAN CULTURE is THE CULTURE everywhere in the world even countries where the citizins are predominately muslim..becuases it is media that shapes people minds everywhere and u always any where in the world have people who pop out of TV and tells u how to talk walk like the americans...I am from Egypt and I tell u there is no much difference of how ppl think it is just that the TV aura have not eliminated the islamic aura

[mzkaddah]

we do have our own morphed version of the american media culture, drugs culture, alchol sex culture..it is just morphed a little witha veil to escape the clear islamic laws and teachings of the way u should live your life...add to that dictatorships, poverty and gov corruptions, so if the new converts are disgusted of the american culture, pls tell them its ok but don't get disgusted of america itself becuase what they are looking for is not found anywhere on this planet even in iran,,

[mzkaddah]

so they should thank god 10000000 times a days that they are born white ppl in america and they found their way to that relegion in america because if they see wjo muslims treat each others in their own countries they might be shaken..my advice to these convert..be grateful to what u have...u least problem would be some regection from friends or family which may dissolve if true love was their in first place, they don't have to face racism, laguage and culture barriers to get along...

[mzkaddah]

not to mention misconseptions and general scare of these ppl and their relegion and general distrust in their version of the story of how the story went in the ME...The TV and gov is always right and we are big fat liers...if the zionists says so then it is true...we don't feel they have a different culture and hey Jesus was a jew...every christian was origionally a Jew and every muslim can not be origionally a christian as I as an Egyptian think..muslims must trace back to arabs or dogs.

[ONEwayORtheHIGHWAY87]

"Verily, therein indeed is a reminder for him who has a heart who listens and witnesses" (Qur'an 50:37)

"This is the Book whereof there is no doubt, a guidance for the God-fearing" (Qur'an 2:2)

"Verily, We have sent down to you the Book as a clarification for all matters, a guidance, a mercy and good news for those who submit. (Qur'an 16:89)

"What do they not ponder over the Quran?" (Qur'an 47: 24)

[ONEwayORtheHIGHWAY87]

A muslim has certainty of faith reagrdless of being a revert or a raised muslim. Reverts are more likely to [though not always] do extensive research and contemplation before taking the testimony of faith. Not all, but most inately believed in the possibility of a Superior Being prior to accepting Islam. Who would willingly give up their desires to embrace a way of life that demands practicale implementation of faith, if they did not think it to be the truth?

[rawab23]

About the Black Muslims accepting Islam it has a lot to do with 2 things:#1 Muhammad said (in his last public speech) "No white is better than a black, nor black better than a white, except in God conscience".

#2 Most of the African slaves transported to the New World were from Muslim families and if they weren't they were an indigenous religion (the only place Christianity was in would be some of Ethiopia).

[torpedo192]

The main reason you have these converts its that they find the truth - Islam fills up a void in their lives - makes their life more meaningful, and makes more sense.

It's also easy for christians - because Islam didnt come to abolish christianity - ull find more on Mary in the Quran than the new Testament itself.

Its not so 'courageous' as you said. Because its not a blind leap of faith, to have courage. It's more a determination.

[kingsaiful]

Sir George Bernard Shaw in (The Genuine Islam, Vol. 1, No. 8, 1936.) Said, I have always held the religion of Muhammed in high estimation because of its wonderful vitality. It is the only religion which appears to me to possess that assimilating capacity to the changing phase of existence which can make itself appeal to every age.

Hope that answers the question.

[zentropa]

OH YEAH !!!! There was that one muslim convert in England that was so couragous & vocal that he blew himself up. He was one of the suicide bombers that attacked the London Transit System in 2005.

[tengkulai]

well..u seem to overlook what other religions have done to muslims in other parts of the world..salamualaikum..

[sumayahrose]

Some times they come into contact with others who are Muslim, sometimes good Muslims, some times bad Muslims, sometimes nonpracticing Muslims.

Muslims are just like any other group of people! They have phys cos and saints.

But one thing is for certain people are different from religion ideology.

There is ideas and then there is reality. No one will ever be the ideal. Just like your hand, fingers are all different links, so are the Muslims and their levels of faith.

[sumayahrose]

I'm Muslim cause I agree with the religion! It just makes sense! What is good is good and what is bad is bad!

There are a lot of different charactures that are muslims, born muslims, american or immigrant, they come from all over, converts, immigrants and Americans.....They are all different and all tend to have similar reasonns for there Islam if they are converts. One day they become interested, they agree with the doctrine and study it, they fall in love eventually with it and adapt it.

[sumayahrose]

Were American so we know how to speak up and I think it is an American trait! More of a leader!

[hotarmpithair]

I was Catholic for 29 years of my life. I never imagined I'd one day be Muslim. I was very against it but it happened. I'd been misinformed but once I came across the truth I couldn't turn my back on Islam. It was discovering how much of my Catholic beliefs were based on pagan ideas and traditions that made me look into other religions.

[korkot2]

Majority muslim convert i have known been catholic. Both religions are strict and demands a lot of learning. Conversion from Christianity to Islam requires indepth search. Basic of these two religions are very similar.Only serious seeker will convert. Since quran tells us that that good jews and christian will go to heaven. A convert has to find something extra in islam. They are more serious muslim than avg. In many muslim countries woman dont wear head scarves but american converts do.

[IslamicGoldenAge]

stereotype is a stereotyped word. Better to say looking for patterns among converts.

My hunch is you will find a wide variety of reasons, that will be hard to classify into neat categories.

[YaseenR]

wait holdon. muslim converts are all over the world not only in us.and they choose islam because its very easy to practise and basically has all answers.

BTW< MUSLIM converts in america don't choose islam to rebell or for other reasons

[pearl000dxb]

When Allah chooses to guide someone and open a his/her heart , then its done . God's will is always done and it can never be undone .

Wheather that person was , a black gangster, a stripper , a univertsy professor , a spoiled rich girl , a foramlly religious christian or jew , a 75 year old , a 12 year old , mexican, indian, american , it doesn't matter .

I have to say you made correct points , all my respect to you sir !

[AngelKitiKatt]

I can say that many of your questions, I did reply yes, the sex and drug craze amongst many others other things that the USA is going through is ridiculous and absurd but that's not all of it. I have always been a HUGE believer in God.

To me, I found God in a manner through Islam that completes itself. Its comprehensive and all-embracing ~ just as God is, Fisibilillah! It's really simply a miracle in itself and I am thankful! SubhanAllah!!

[solitair1]

"hate come from those who preach it" Nicely put vancerz. PeaceTrain is so famous with his propaganda and hatred remarks. I'm sure he has few other username that he uses here and there.

I pitty that person. he is convincing himself of those lies he read and reread and doesn't want to look closer to the truth from different, non scratched eye glasses.

[RealizeItsATest]

So really, it has nothing to do with conversion or birth into islam, it has to do with how much you study your faith. Converts who studied a lot before converting with be really voicey, and born-muslims who studied a lot will be really voicey. The only difference is, when you convert, it's likely that you've studied a lot before you convert. When you're born muslim, it's just a name. You can study or not study. But islam tells us to study in depth and contemplate to come to understanding.

[RealizeItsATest]

What you said about converts being more voicey.. when you convert to a faith, YOU came to it, you want to know everything about it, you fall in love with it, you want to spread it. Born-muslims are more laid back because they don't research deep into their faith, STEREOTYPICALLY. MANY born muslims do this, but when they do they have the character of a convert, because they are studied and they KNOW, they fall in love with it, they are intrigued.

[solitair1]

very true realizeitsatest. I'm born Muslim and I prayed on and off most of my life. Only receintly ( 2 years now) I started to go deper into learning islam and I started understanding and seeing things differently. Also by watching on YT converts and their enthusiam it made me feel some nergy and hunger to learn more. I read Quran and sunnah everuday and I read different books as well and I'm always searching for more.

Thank God.

God bless you sister and God bless you Bret for your efforts.

[RealizeItsATest]

That characteristic makes them seem more "liberal" because you see that the girls try to reach agreements and really push to find common ground and always leave a discussion with peace. Males to you seem more "strict" because they push things. When really it's a twist. The girls are the ones adhering to their faith more in this situation, following the sunnah, making them the more "strict" ones, and the males are the ones letting their anger take over, making them more "liberal". Just a thought.

[RealizeItsATest]

The prophet (Pbuh) absolutely loved that about females. How the patience and gentleness in their words came so naturally to them, and for guys it's really a jihad.

[RealizeItsATest]

to bret: Don't get me wrong! You'll find a lot of males who show patience and try to find common ground and see the way the other's thinking, and you'll find many girls who don't do that, so no stereotypes here. But from the comments you've seen, mostly males aren't in touch with the sense of agreeing to show them that we're not too different, they're more like, "hey, he said something wrong, who does he think he is?". Whereas girls like to address what they said subtly.

[PeaceTrain99]

It was nice chatting with you all, take care, I am getting off my computer now. Had enough. Take care. peace.

[RealizeItsATest]

Peace to you.

[RealizeItsATest]

To clevon: The personality of females is more understanding and we're willing to find common ground between different faiths and agree as much as possible to spread islam, so it makes us seem more liberal because we're open to discussing thoughts and showing kindness. Sometimes males don't show that sense, they see something wrong, they correct it straight up, which leads to argumentation. No one really interprets islam differently, it's just in our personalities.

[PeaceTrain99]

avoiding truth is just convenience, so feel free to have religion of convenience. take care, I am off for today.

[RealizeItsATest]

Avoiding truth? I've addressed everything. You're the one insisting that your interpretation of islam is more reliable then the scholars who have dedicated their lives to study of this faith. Peace to you, PT.

[RealizeItsATest]

A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)

Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)

If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

Does that not look violent and intolerant and wrong? I am in no place to say that, I'm not a scholar. Neither are you

[PeaceTrain99]

One anser and then please concentrate in Islam. All TORAH section books in the Bible (Leviticus, Deteronomy, exodus, Joshua, Jusdges, Kings etc) are HISTORY of desert wondering people under MOSES, AARON and JOSUA. Those were THEIR social laws for them. NOT UNIVERSAL COMMAND to humanity.

[RealizeItsATest]

No, if you want to attack islam instead of asking questions because you're obviously confused, then why shouldn't I push you on christianity? Because it's not my place? Because I should go to a scholar and not you? Because a scholar is studied and can give me real answers? Is that why? See how it feels to be so exposed to ignorance?

[RealizeItsATest]

So you're saying at a point in time, it was right to kill a girl for not being a virgin on her wedding night? Or to kill nonbelievers for no reason? Or to punish a girl for being raped? God Commanded this, right?

[PeaceTrain99]

It was not right, BUT its was MOSES' command.

Read Gospel, what Jesus said. JESUS CORRECTED a lot of things PROPHETS in OLD TESTAMENT taught. Unfortunatly Quran copiers KEPT them as is.

For exmapl, Moses taught 'Teeth for teeh, eye for eye' for REVENGE. Jesus said, that is WRONG, he said 'Forgive your enemy and pray for them"

Unfornately Quran COPIED 'Teeth for teeh and Eye for Eye' verse that Moses taught and presented as ALLAH's command.

[RealizeItsATest]

So the bible is the word of Moses. Okay, thanks a lot for teaching me about christianity.

[PeaceTrain99]

Thanks for your opinion. In the Bible DIRECT COMMAND of God is there. In addition, it contents history, teaching of various prophets, prayers, songs about God, wisdom, Jesus' COMMANDS, his life and also witness about him by his disciples. So yes, Bible contains everything, It is God's word and also reflection on human life and relation of man with God.

[RealizeItsATest]

You said it was Moses's command. So it was Moses's word and not God? See the dangers of every day folks explaining religion? I do believe the bible is from God, you don't have to defend christianity. I'm trying to show you that it's easy to twist up words. We should humble ourselves and go to the people who know. I've studied christianity, if I ever need any information, I won't go to you, peacetrain, nor will I rely on my own interpretation which is double foolish. Ill go to the scholars

[abboooody]

that is very wise , thank u , that's a good advice 4 everyone

[RealizeItsATest]

peace to you brother!

[solitair1]

RealizeItsATest: I thinn what you said makes a lot of sense. Nicely put. God bless you.

[solitair1]

PeaceTrain: I think RealizeitsAtest delivered his message.

we are not here to judge your religion but you are here to judge ours ( misjudge). We want peace, mutual understanding and tolerance. You are not preaching tolerance and you are not showing you want to listen to us. You keep copy and paste the same out of context verses. We explain them to you but you keep coming back with the same verses spreading them on any video about islam.

Are you really following jesus like this?

[RealizeItsATest]

Muhammad (Pbuh) couldn't even read. We believe the Bible is from God as well, but corrupted over time. It also doesn't help that there's no clear track for the preservation of the bible.

[PeaceTrain99]

First of all nowhere in Quran it says Bible is corrupted. In Quran, Allah rather CONFIRMS Bible as God's word.

Secondly, Muhammad may be illiterate, He employed people to copy many documents inclusing Bible to come up with his religion.

[RealizeItsATest]

My friend, there you go again saying things at the top of your head. Please stop talking. "Therefore woe be unto those who write the Book with their hands and then say, "This is from Allah," that they may purchase a small gain therewith. Woe unto them for that their hands have written, and woe unto them for that they earn thereby."

'the Book, i.e. "people of the Book" christians. The bible.

Don't take my word, ask the scholars of tafsir.

Quran Chapter 2:79

[PeaceTrain99]

imaranrnvarf, here is teh Quran Verse, find the context, show me the context -

Sura (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them"

[RealizeItsATest]

My friend, don't go to imaran, go to the scholars. Here's a good link to the ask a scholar page on islam online regarding that specific verse.

[RealizeItsATest]

w w w . islamonlin e . n et / s ervlet / Sat el lite ? pa ge na me = Isla mO nli ne - En glish - Ask_S cho lar / Fat waE / F a twa E & cid=11195 03 544502

Close all of the spaces.

[y100269]

That's not properly translated.

[imranrmvarif]

Peae train the verse starts with AND !!!! and teh verse before it clarifies who were and when so please dont be dishonest .. for any readers go back a few pages...thank you.

[RealizeItsATest]

Peace train is trying to teach muslims about islam.

[PeaceTrain99]

why don't you teach then.

[RealizeItsATest]

In other words, EVEN IN WAR, Even in war, you only kill for self-defense. If people attack us, we are allowed to protect ourselves. But we are not allowed to attack others or start war, it's forbidden. And women and children cannot be killed in any condition, even if you have suspicions. If they kill our children, we are to save theirs. If they rape our women, we show respect to theirs.

[PeaceTrain99]

Are you bind, the verse starts saying KILL THEM whereever you find them. Where do you see self-defence?

[RealizeItsATest]

Post the entire sura.

[PeaceTrain99]

I posted the entire Sura multiple time. You can check your Quran please.

[imranrmvarif]

teh verse which you posted abot apostasy actually talks about rejecting faith ..which within te muslim army of te time amopunted to desertion , treason and if tehy became "renagedes" i.e joined te ranks of teh enemy.... !! c'mon .. u know what this means .. i feel you are being dishonest in your representation by delibratly ignoring the context and focusing on wordsand lines in ayats /surahs in isolation ... U know thats not how scripture works! its all about context !!!!! be honest!

[RealizeItsATest]

and drive them out from whence they drove you out

[RealizeItsATest]

If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife.

Deuteronomy 22:23-24 NAB

[PeaceTrain99]

typical Muslim escape. How sad!! Instead of answering why Muhammad killed so many people to expand Islam, youare quoting Bible verse. Let us talk about Islam, shall we?

[RealizeItsATest]

How sad?? Muhammad (Pbuh) killed no one unjustly, or to expand islam. You know nothing about the battles. Uhud and Badr were battles fought when the muslims were being ATTACKED. My friend, I wasn't saying those verses make christianity evil, I was SHOWING YOU HOW PEOPLE CAN MAKE ANYTHING LOOK WEIRD when there is no EXPLANATION. Okay? And I am teaching you, I'm advising you, I'm trying to HELP YOU. But you're like a stone. You don't even listen when people reason with you, you insist on arrogance

[PeaceTrain99]

How about "Kahibar". Iasked about Khaibar. Kahibar people NVER attacked Muhammad.

[PeaceTrain99]

Muhammad also killed innocent people of Median (whi infact initially gave refuse to Muhammad). DId Media people attacked him? No. He when felt got strong, attached anyone who did not agree with what he was preaching and killed them. How conveneient?

[RealizeItsATest]

media? "He when felt got strong, attached anyone who did not agree with what he was preaching and killed them". Where on earth are you getting this nonsense from? The top of your head?

[abboooody]

lol , haters always make false claims about Mohammad (pbuh) killing , raping stealing ... etc , i wonder where they get that from , hmmm ... maybe they make it up , they say that when someone wants to believe a lie , he repeats it over and over until he believes it

[PeaceTrain99]

Here,

Shahi Bukhari, Vol 5, Book 59, Number 448

Go out to them (to attack them)." The Prophet said, "Where?" Gabriel pointed towards Bani Quraiza. So Allah's Apostle went to them (i.e. Banu Quraiza) (i.e. besieged them). They then surrendered to the Prophet's judgment but he directed them to Sad to give his verdict concerning them. Sad said, "I give my judgment that their warriors should be killed, their women and children should be taken as captives, and their properties distributed."

[y100269]

To scared to admit, you've made a mistake?

[solitair1]

Bani Quraiza, did a treachurous act during the dicth battle. They went against Muhammad during the war and made it impossible to get out alife from that war except for God' itervention then.

Muhammad is a prophet and a man of peace. that doesn't mean that he should be attacked and stay defensless. being cheated in war and do nothing. he was a state man and I would like for my state man to be firm and just and that what he did.

[solitair1]

Realizeitsatest, God bless you for your trying to explain to peacetrain something that he will never understand unless God take away the blindness from his heart.

I, tried several time to communicate with him but.. deaf ears.

Jazaka Allah khair.

[PeaceTrain99]

Torah books commands are given by Moses for the Israelite for that community. That is NOT universal command in Christianity and no Christian teaches that. But you will be surprised tro know, many Muslim clerics preaces hate gainst non-Muslims based on that Quran verse.

[RealizeItsATest]

It doesn't matter, YOU BELIEVE IN IT to be the word of God, don't you? Why would God command that? Please know I'm not attacking Christianity, I am SHOWING YOU that ANY VERSE can be made to look weird in the right context, but NO COMMON PERSON is in any position to interpret it, that is a dangerous thing. It is a scholars job and a scholars job only. I DON'T INTERPRET. Not me, not you.

[PeaceTrain99]

I said Moses commanded that to people under him. I can show you the verse in Deuteronomy where Moses starts saying that.

Only God's commands given to Moses are the TEN COMMNDMENTS.

We follow God (so we follow TEN COMMANDMENDS). NOT other social order Moses gave to people under him. I dont think your read my post. Please understand. Since I gave you exmaplination, please explain to me the Quran;s universal verses that orders to kill people.

[RealizeItsATest]

That's not the point. You believe that those hateful words are God's words, do you not?

[imranrmvarif]

ther verse before the one quoted below defines which unbeleivers to fight ...........Quran 2 .190 - Fight in the cause of Allah THIOSE WHO FIGHT YOU, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors

[PeaceTrain99]

Regardless, it is commaning to to kill the unbelievers for Allah. Isn't it?

[RealizeItsATest]

In times of war for self-defense, absolutely.

[solitair1]

IT'S COMMANDING TO KILL THOSE WHO FIGHT YOU!!!!!

DON'T YOU GET IT?

wHAT DID YOU EXPECT FROM GOD TO SAY: IF THEY FIGHT YOU, OPEN YOUR ARMS AND SAY TAKE ME????

ARE YOU THATTTTTTTTT BLIND????

[solitair1]

Sorry for the capital letters.

[imranrmvarif]

with reference to eth below Quote .. teh verse after it says ...

Quran 2:192 But if they cease, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. ... But if they cease !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!­! so teh question now is who ... if who ceases .. ( teh unbeleivers...which unbeleivers .... let em clarify in my next point .....

[PeaceTrain99]

You said:

God allways used genocide and forced conversions.

Me : That is not true. People might have, God never converted anyone in any religion.

But only in Islam, Allah makes a UNIVERSAL COMMAND to kill whoever is not a Muslim. Islam's prophet makes a command to KILL whoever leaves Islam.

[imranrmvarif]

not true .. in fact , if u look for examples of where there were apostates in the prophets time not a single one was killed . to the contrary - they were left alone in ase they returned ( stregnthened in faith ) and inactual fact the majority did! scholars differ on this however as irt depends on wther it is considered treason against an Islamic state etc .. one know scholar who is a renowned one said it is a sin and not punishable in this life !"!" so you are mistaken my freind.

[PeaceTrain99]

prophet ordered kill apostate and his shahaba (companions) killed apostates. Would you like me to post that Hadeeth?

[imranrmvarif]

Yes please .. and also post the commandment ( you said Allah commands apostates to be killed ) therefore it must be in Quran ( an explicit ayat - from a surah ) or an explicit comand from a sahih hadeeth ( authentic) and there must be no contradicting hadeeth for it to be a universal command in all circumstances. So Please .. provide your evidence.. thank you . Imran

[RealizeItsATest]

It's actually "sahaba". not shahaba. Yes, it means companions.

[solitair1]

That statement vancerz said " God allways used genocide and forced conversions" is not true. I don't know what he meant by it. God in biblical stries destroyed people for example Lot's people ( sodom and gonorra), Noah's peole in the flood. I think vancerz meant it this way.

[PeaceTrain99]

God did not make any covenant with Muhammad because God did not even talk to Muhammad. With all others, God talked to them directly. Muhammad thought Allah's angel; talked to him

[solitair1]

Wow, obviously you were present there!!!!

It's funny how some people claim things and believe it to be true.

[PeaceTrain99]

Since I answered you query, now you should be fair and answer why ALLAH commands to KILL the non-believers.

[imranrmvarif]

give evidance of tshi command if you are truthfull!!

[PeaceTrain99]

Quran 002.191

"And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers."

[imranrmvarif]

how deos this relate to apostates? .. it does not explicitly say "kill apostates" ... etc.. also please define "unbeleivers".. i.e post the verse before because teh quote above starts with" AND" , also after this verse are tere any injuctions as to where teh above verse shodul not apply ? i.e what circumstance shoudl the above be applied in ? does it mean universally ? thanks .

[PeaceTrain99]

apostate one is a different verse. I gave you the one where Quran commands to kill the non-Muslims.

[RealizeItsATest]

Note how it says, "drive them out from whence they drove you out". Self-defense, my friend. "but if they do fight you, then slay them"

[PeaceTrain99]

RealizeATest, it is conevenent for you to strip clauses of that verse to fit your mind. Isn't it. Read the verse as is :

Quran 002.191

"And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers."

It is starting as order to KILL the non-muslims.

[RealizeItsATest]

Maybe you don't understand brother, I DON'T EXPLAIN THOSE VERSES. Scholars do, based on sources knowledge, information. YOU'RE THE ONE STRIPPING THE VERSE to serve your own purpose. Let me bring forth verses from the holy bible that seem gruesome and disgusting, but I have no place to even try to interpret them because I AM NOT A SCHOLAR.

[solitair1]

"It is starting as order to KILL the non-muslims" Where it says the non muslims? it says "them" interpreted as Pagans during a specific battle. Why you are interpreting it as you wish to make it convenient and make it universal. Non Muslims lived in peace for centuries under Muslim rulers. Spain, Jerusalem are perfect examples.

[PeaceTrain99]

and the last phrease you posted as :"but if they do fight you, then slay them", that is only if they attack you in the holy mosque, but if they do, then ALSO kill then. Because verse start blankly SAYING KILL them WHEEVER you find them.

[y100269]

who's them?

[RealizeItsATest]

That verse is regulation, it's a blessing, without it, muslims would be able to attack people for no reason, and drive people out of their lands. Allah Gave us that verse to regulate our war behavior, the same verses exist in the Bible and hindu scriptures. These verses aren't shameful in any way, post them proudly, you're spreading the word of Allah.

[PeaceTrain99]

Unfortunately historically Muslims has been attacking and murdering people.

Muhammad attacked innocent people of Khaibar and killed them, That was not self-defence. That was murder.

[RealizeItsATest]

Historically? My brother, there are ignorant people. No scholar of islam has attacked anyone. No one of knowledge has attacked anyone. Ignorant people, raised by their villages in poor oppressed areas attack. And anyway that's irrelevent, CHRISTIANS have attacked people as well. Does that mean their religion is wicked, NO. The crusades, christian armies, the majority of the WORLD is christian, none of them kill? If one does, all of christianity is sick?

[PeaceTrain99]

I said Prophet Muhammad attackjed innocent people and killed en-mass. Forget about people and other things. Concentrate on advent of Islam, Muhammaded killed, his companions killed to expand Islam, that is how it started. Did you read on Khaibar incident I mentioned.

[solitair1]

In that khaibar incident, the jews broke several time the treaty they had with Muhammad PBUH. the treaty clearly states that if it's broken then there will be war. The jews plotted, had some hypocrite ploting against the Muslims. muhammad. had to declare a war on them and people got killed because they resisted. if they surrendered they would be spared. You don't like and belive me?

I don't care. What Muhamad did, was politics nothing else.

[RealizeItsATest]

"If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her."

(Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT)

[y100269]

oh, that's harsh!

[y100269]

A Christian is saying this? you're one to talk.

[solitair1]

here we go with those famous out of context verses. Why don't you state the verse before and the one after and also use the interpratation that clearly show that this verse is specific for a specific battle against PAGANS and not UNIVERSAL as you claim. You are either blind or blind :)

[PeaceTrain99]

Exodus, Levitus, Deuteronomu, Joshua, Judges all torah books are history of Israelite under Moses and his descendants (like Aaron, Joshua). And the commands were for then for that instance. Because God first made a covenat with Abraham, then with Moses, then with Jacob, finally with Jesus Christ. And Jesus Christ taught how to follow God and those are UNIVERSLA commands. COmmands in the Torah section (EXCEPT the Ten Commandments) are NOT universal comamnds. Jesus' commands are UNIVERSAL.

[solitair1]

" And the commands were for then for that instance"

It's so hypocritical how you put your defense, yet when we say the same things regarding some cerses that were put for a specific period during battle you just discard it as untrue and you claim it to be universal.

Wow!!! You keep proving yourself. keep going...

[PeaceTrain99]

Exodus commands are NOT UNIVERSAL Commands for humanity.

That was punishement for people who went against God and God commanded Moses for that instance to punish them.

That is NOT a UNIVERSAL command of God to Christians.

On the other hand 'KILL the non-belivers' in QURAN is a UNIVERSAL command to Muslim by Allah. And non-belieber does not mean sinner. But Allah seems to think that and Allah says you Muslims kill them. Sad!! Very Sad!!!

[PeaceTrain99]

No genocide is NOT commanded in Christian Bible. In Quran, Allah directly commands people to KILL non-Muslim. No such DIRECT command in Bible exists. It is easy to blame on other saying oh, someone lese did, so what is the hard if Islam does. IT IS NOT RIGHT. If a God copmmands to KILL humanity that ALLAH is FALSE and a Hatemonger.

[PeaceTrain99]

there is nothing hateful when you tell the truth.

Allah comanded to KILL the non-believersin Quran. If anything Allah is HATEFILLED.

[evansville70]

Cool aid drinker

[AllahIsWun]

see id go with the first 2 stereotypes the, strictness of reverts, and the more vocal part

[Bashir38]

No, I don't agree with you, Bret. I think the western revert to Islam is more educated, they researched and chose Islam out of conviction, and when they speak their mind they do so out of love and concern for their communities. They just want to desperately share what they have discovered to be a true blessing.

Peace

[solitair1]

I almost agree with Bashir38. I think for a Non Muslim to convert to islam in our days seeing how much Islam is attacked, it means that the convert had to go through lots of learning to the extent that he/she is convinced about the truth of Islam.This doesn't apply to all converts since many of them don't get enoug education. I;m born Muslim and untill recently I started learning more about islam and now I'm more outspoken. I'm still learning and the more I learn the more I'm attached to Islam.

[PeaceTrain99]

Allah is worse than a multi arm pagan god. Allah is the image of murdering, hatefilled, women hating, evil who commands hate.

[saqib09]

No wonder he created you then.

[clevonamerica]

wow

bret

[whitelilys88]

Yup, because born Muslims dont apreciate Islam as much as converts, plus many dont know the true teachings even..I ALWAYS get my inspiration from reverts....becasue when i grew up Islam was not really presented to me by my parents.