@MrItach74 That's interesting, Jesus said in the bible that he is the last prophet? Where did he say that?
Before you show that verse (I'm sure you can't find it), read this one:
Acts 13:1 In the church at Antioch there were prophets and teachers: Barnabas, Simeon called Niger, Lucius of Cyrene, Manaen (who had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch) and Saul.
@MrItach74 I think I asked for a verse in which Jesus declared that he's the last prophet. If an investor was to tell you that many con-men will arise, does that mean that he's the last investor on earth- no more investors will live? So why does 'many false prophets shall rise' mean that there are no more prophets to come?
Even if that's what it meant, it would mean that these other 'prophets' that were preaching with Paul were all false prophets...which would destroy biblical credibility.
Where is the Gospel of Jesus Christ? And the Torah of Moses? All that the Christians have now is the new Testament and the old Testament, neither of which is the Gospel of Jesus nor the Torah of Moses. Yet you have the time to waste debating on books that were written by anonymous writers who have been proven to be forgers. If you are honest and truthful in your quest for the inerrant word of God as revealed to Jesus and Moses it is preserved in the final Testament the Holy Quran.
i respect the KING of the jews ( the christ) for i know that he was a great man...in all fairness, i must concede that the KING of the jews was not a deity...no, i not a muslim / jew. am only a reader that appreciates knowledge that's explicit...unclear knowledge is a suspect...it's important to remember that the the KING of the jews spoke in idioms...not to be taken literally...
this is an educational video for anyone that's interested in theology...
YEAH I'LL JUST BE A CHRISTIAN AND BELIVE WHAT PAUL SIAD WHAT JOHN SAID WHAT "KING" JAMES SAID!!!!!! YEAH U CLOWNS!!!! ILL JUST WORSHIP A MAN!!!!!!!!!! HA HA HA!!! LIE TO ME LIE TO US ALL JUST DON'T LIE TO UR SELF!!!!!
why did you cut the voice off at 3:51-4:26, where he was showing you where you COULD not anwser or refute the Biblical position. I wonder why you did that. He was concluding and summarizing. Why would you do that?
@MBI3030 again your replys are consistant with our conversations you bring painfully nothing no substantive statements just general non sequiter statements.what is the natue of our spirits what is its life span?as to this glich must be temperary because this first time i seen it .this vid was produced and sponcerd by arabic christian perspective not me.i was the 1 that was edited and cut purposly as i point out in the vid at the 3minut and 5 to 6 second mark.MAY GOD LEAD U TO HIS TRUTH
I do not know who edited the video. But it is clear, his concluding part of the speech was cut.
But instead of simply answer the question you attack me.
Just becuase you do not understand the Biblical context, like the verse where Jesus said many will come to me saying Lord, Lord..... You took it out of context and I showed you, but in your pride, you do not accept reprovement....
and a-typicle of christians prologos ,truthornothing and the other christians posters of comments have not responded to my offer to call me and talk point for point to prove there position .maybe they have desided to become hindus same religion, BETTER FOOD . STILL WAITING GIVE ME A CALL PEACE
i am sure u will change your name again but the content of your post will give you away. if u post again u will be dealt with acordingly. if you call me i will have some questions 4 u that god willing will make u come to your sences THERE IS ONLY ONE TRUTH AND WITHOUT IT YOU HAVE NOTHING. U ARE WORTH MUCH AND U ARE RICHLY DESERVING OF GODS MERCY OUR GOD IS ONE GOD AND MERCY AND FORGIVNESS ARE THE EASYEST AND MOST EFFORTLESS OF TASK 4 HIM CALL ME AGAIN THE NUMBER IS 1.718 .733-0234
fruthorNOTHING IT WAS YOU WHO BRAUGHT MITHRAS NOT ME READ ALL COMMENTS AND SEE, SO YOU LIED TO PROLOCOS. AND I STILL ANSWERED ALL YOUR QUESTIONS ON THE SUBJECT.I HAVE GOT SO MUCH MORE INFO. BUT ITS A WAIST OF TIME U DO NOT DESERVE MY EFFORTS BUT LIKE I SAID I AM WILLING TO TALK TO U PERSONALY I FEAR NOTHING BUT GOD HIS TRUTH IS MY SHIELD U HAVE MY PHONE AND MY FACE IS ON MY VIDIOS CALL ME OR IS YOUR FAITH AS WEAK AS YOUR POST COMMENTS.IF YOU DO NOT CALL YOU WILL BE EXPOSED FOR WHAT U ARE
TRUTHORNOTHING u chose a perfect name for yourself u got NO TRUTH and U AINT NOTHING. AGAIN U COME BACK WITH B--L SH-T. IF JESUS IS GOD PRAY TO HIM FOR A BRAIN. NONE OF MY POINTS DEALT WITH .BEFORE I GO ON LET ME MAKE A CORRECTION THE WARNING AGAINST TAMPERING FROM JN. WAS NOT IN BOOK OFJN. BUT IN REV.22;18-19 ALSO COMES WITH A VARY NICE FALSE PROPHECY IN NEXT VERSE- V.20.NOW, NO RESPONCE TO LYING BY JESUS NO RESPONCE TO NOT MEETING LAWS OF VALID SACEAFICE NO RESPONCE TO CURUPTION IN BIBLE
ONE of the things i meant when i said YOU COME AT ME WITH NOTHING IS THAT YOUR ARGUMENTS ARE SUPERFICIAL THEY CARRY NO WAIGHT THEY ARE INSIGNIFICANT NOT TO MENTION THE FACT THAT YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT I AM SAYING WHICH IS WHY YOU ENGAUGE ME THE WAY YOU DO.I give u refrences ,scholers .quotes,and proofs and you come back with a feathers waight. iWILL BE MORE THAN HAPPY TO TALK TO YOU PERSONALLY CALL 1-718.733-0234 ASK FOR ABDUL MALIK IF I AM NOT THERE LEAVE YOUR PHONE NUMBER YOUR POST R OVER
on when curruption in bible STARTED read your own biblicle HISTORY THEN READ QURAN LIKE I SAID BEFORE I AM NOT HEAR TO WRITE A BOOK EXCLUSIVLY 4 U THERE IS NO TEACHING IN O.T ABOUT A DYING GOD MAN NOW U FIGURE IT OUT. ON THE cresent moon and other related b.s dr. robert morry has been dubed a kook by your own scholers and also is being investigated for criminal activity. christians holidays are not taught in bible but they are symtoms of christianitys pagan origins so pagan holidays NO PROBLEM
broken and not met by jesus god was strict when it came to these laws read cain and able also read what god did to the sons of arran for breaking those laws remember jesus said i come not to distroy the law of the prophets but to fullfill if you believe that jesus is god he himself does not qualify under the law that he himself inspired I WOULD DARE SAY THAT A HELL OF A PROBLEM.on the torah and command to fight 4 it just another symtom of your sickness read quran all questions will be answerd
which is a small part of the problem CONCERNING BIBLE INTEGRITY AND AUTHENTICITY. in JN.22 U EVEN GET ANOTHER FALSE PROPHECY TO BOOT READ V.20.ON JESUS LYING I GAVE U VERSES BUT HERE IS ONE MORE READ JN.18;36 AND COMPARE TO LK.22;36-38 HE LIED. THOU SHALL NOT LIE REMEMBER THAT. HOW MANY TIMES DID HE SAY FOOL WHAT IS THE BIBLICLE TEACHING ON JUST SAYING THE WORD I COULD GO 4 EVER ON THIS.THIS INFRACTION DISQUALIFYS JESUS AS PERFECT SACRAFICE NOT TO MENTION THAT THE BIBLICLE LAWS OF SACRAFICE WERE
the bible says i am not the AUTHER OF CONFUSION what were these ecumenicle counsils if not proof positive of confusion and the inventions of men .LYERS CONSORTING on how best to tell and sell A LIE.LIKE 2 CRIMINALS ARGUING OVER AN ALIBI.I NEVER BRAUGHT UP TRENT U DID.SIR U HAVE A SICK LACK OF KNOWLEDGE ON CHURCH FATHERS on bible CORUPTION the bible it self admits it read jer.8;8 even JN . admits it IN REV.22;18-19 HE WARNS AGAINST TAMPERING WHICH WAS RAMPENT IN THE CHURCH AND ACSEPTED PRACTICE
The counsils was for to put order in Christianity from what the bible has already taught. They were for to put order into concepts that were already in the scriptures.
Again i came up with many things it you that used many invalid arguments like Christmas easter which has nothing to do with the foundation of Christianty also you use roman mithra even due i prove it came in the late first century. I respond to the philo account and shown you from the OT that words were seen to be a force etc..
again you come back with NOTHING i dont know why i am postingTO YOU ITS A WAIST OF TIME. now on the trinity being all over the bible what did the church fathers say to arias when he asked them to prove the trinity acording to scripture they replied with IT IS NOT IN SCRIPTURE BUT TAKE OUR WORD FOR IT THUS 2 CONCEPTS IN CHRISTIANTY WERE BORN AND LEGITIMISED 1-PIUS FRAUD AND 2 BLIND FAITH THE TRINITY IS NOT A TEACHING IN BIBLE IF IT WAS IT WOULD BE CLEAR NO NEED 4 ECUMENICLE COUNSILS
I came back with Nothing? I do not think so your at the point where you said trent taught against The trinity and yet he was one of the fathers that came up with the word trinity and said God is one in essence not in person and yet you said he taught against it. i can tell you no understanding of what the church fathers taught nor there meanings.
it not in scripture take our word for it? i had read many works of the fathers never heard that one. The Word trinity is not in scripture that fathers etc.... also are clear on that but the concept is there.
also One more thing The church father trent... was of of the fathers that coined the word Trinity. The concept of the trinity is all throughout scripture with God refering to his self in the plural the hebrew text etc...... it just it was not until way later a name was made up to describe this concept.
if after explain how the bible is corrupted due to the same scripts that pre-date Muhammed were use to make translations over the centuries in different languages and yet these are the scripts that existed in Muhammad time and Today which can be found in museum throughtout the world?
this will be my last reply if The sadiq does not continues any further.
1. it not a man-man thing to have Jesus as God. Jesus himself refer to his self as the Almighty in rev 1:8. These words are from Christ mouth his self.
2. The questions which we not answer when was the bible corrupted?
before Muhammad or after?
3. if before why does he tell his followers to obey Torah and fight for the gospels?
If After then explain the maneuver scripts which some pre-date Muhammed about 200 some years
to the person who commend on me about Hindu religion
The Upanishads, Vedas and other early Hindu scriptures taught no such thing as a threefold unity between Brahma, Vishnu and Siva. The Vedas recognised at least thirty-three different gods and the three mentioned were quite simply separate gods and in great measure opposed to one another. The relationship between them just cannot be made analogous to the doctrine of the Trinity:
a -just ,improve and change while god ALLAH has no such mandate ON HIMSELF because he is perfection AND HE AND HE ALONE IS THE CREATOR AND DEFINER OF WHAT PERFECTION IS HE IS THE CREATOR OF EVERYTHING THAT IS EXISTANCE AND THE POSSIBILITYS OF REALITY THAT NATURE IS CONTRARY TO MANS AND JESUS BEING PERFECT MAN HAD AS PART OF HIS NATURE MANS IMPERFECTIONS AND WEAKNESSES GOD IS NOT DOUBLE MINDED NOR IS HE IN CONFLICT WITH HIMSELF JESUS LIFE WAS the testamony of a servant of ALLAH aman and not ALLAH
Jesus was never at conflict with himself in the meaning to sin or not to sin. he never sinned He was God in the flesh who had the ppwer to resist sin.
my oponent never even atempted to address jesus, the SUPOSED GOD MANS MISTAKE WHEN WHEN HE SAYS THAT HE WAS THE ONLY ONE TO ACEND TO HEAVEN this mistake speaks volumes it proves that jesus is not god in many ways, and stands as proof positive that mans imperfect nature can not and will not co-exist with god perfect nature perfection does not allow for variance or change or mistake read book of JN.1;17 .THE PERFECT MAN INCLUDES IMPERFECTION AS PART OF HIS IDENTITY he is called by god to learn
Jesus reference to ascending and descending was made in reference to speaking of heavenly things, of heavenly realities. What Christ was saying is that he could speak of heavenly secrets, of heavenly matters since he is the only One who originates from heaven itself and came down from there to reveal these unseen mysteries to mankind.
Putting it another way, Jesus was saying that no one went into heaven and came down from there so as to make known the unseen heavenly realities. Elijah and Enoch did not come down after ascending from heaven. Only Christ could speak from personal experience and therefore convey these eternal realities since he comes from heaven, from the very presence of God himself:
THUS THE FATHER IS DISTINKED FROM THE SON BEING GREATER THAN THE SON in as much as he who begets is one and he who begets is another he who sends is ONE and he who is SENT IS ANOTHER and he who CREATES IS ONE AND HE THROUGH WHOM THE THING IS MADE IS ANOTHER , tertulian in adversus praxean.the 3 foundations of trinity destroyed 1-no co-equality 2-no co-eternity 3- no cosstantuability.trinity AND DIVINITY OF JESUS MAN MADE INOVATION .AND THE HONUR OF JESUS IS RESTORED U- CAME WITH NOTHING ITS OVER
This post does not even make sense you have a hard time of making sense when making arguments.
The father sent The son into the world he was begotten not made as for tertulian again your reading your bias Tertulian was one of the first to use the word to decribe God is One in essence not in person. so much for your idea that terulian taught against it.
do you still want to claim that jn. did not copy can you at least agree that he modified you have wasted my time this is my last post to you. tertulian wrote the son differs from the father but by distinktion the father is not the same as the son since they differ one from the other in the mode of there being for the father is the entire substance but the son is a derivation of the whole as he himself says the father is greater than I in pslms 7;5 he is discribed as being lower than the angles
fate your accusing me of not answers your questions while there are a few i ask and yet you did not answer. again John 1:1 please get an understanding of the Old testament and how words are used etc... all this is befoe philo
i have provided a list of scholers. verses from philo that predate jn. also quotations from these scholer who by the way ARE NOT muslims but who are your scholers western scholers and all you give me is quite frankly the nonsence of a jerk have u- read anthing i have writen .on philo he wrote extensivly on the o.t not on the n.t since it did not exist in writen form or any other in his time THANK YOU 4 THAT JOE
apalogist of any so called credibility have masters degrees in greek language and philosophy u-c-u- need a masters degree to defend a lie as to the church fathers thank you -u- made my point it shows the tremendous differences with in the church thats why you had all those ecumenicle counsils the trinity was not believed but negosiated and then savigly imposed undeniable proof that it was not inspired by god but man made . 100s of years after jesus
trinity is nothing more than an adaptation of what came way before it .these trianic cultures plus the influence of greek CULTURE WITH ITS MYTHOLOGY AND PHILOSOPHY NOW GAVE THIS INOVATED COPIED IDEA TRINITY THE MEANS BY WHICH IT COULD BE JUSTIFIED EXPLAINED AND ACSEPTED,THIS IS WHERE THE GREEKS INFLUENCE BECAME THE GLUE THAT MADE THIS TRINITY ADAPTATION STICK AND GAVE IT FORM AND IDENTITY AND A MEANS OF DEFENDING ITSELF UTILISING STOICISUM AND PLATONISUM JUST TO NAME A FEW, AND WHY MOST CHRISTI.
Again since they no evidence greeks romans etc... held to belief in One God you have no proof.
all you have is guessing work. the old testament is Clear the missiah rule is from everlasting. he called mighty God in isaiah 9;6 worship in daniel 7. Genesis it self says let us Create plural in our Image plual.
The actual hebrew text says remember thy creators etc... i can keep going about the OT. The thing is ALL this that was written about the messiah is before the greeks romans etc....
again you dont seem to understand these trinitys predate CHRISTIANITY the empires in question impacted israel in a vary signifiant manner one after the other through domination and conquest AGAIN I STRESS TO U THAT U MIGHT UNDERSTAND IT IS NOT EXPECTED THAT YOUR PAGAN TRINITY MODIFICATION COPY OTHERS WORD FOR WORD OR CONCEPT FOR CONCEPT OR PRECEPT FOR PRECEPT BECUASE IT WOULD HAVE BEEN REJECTED IMEDIATLY FOR WHAT IT IS INOVATION IN MONOTHIEISUM THE RELIGION OF THE JEWS AND OF JESUS CHRISTIAN
fath you can repeat the same thing over and over again but the fact is NO pagans had a trinity. They are family of gods that were seen as 3 complete different gods not 3 in one God if you are right that we copy then we would to find evidence that other pagan religions held to the concept of One God. can you name one pagan religion that held to The beleif of One God?
Hinduism far out dates Christianity and is widely considered a pagan religion by both Muslims and Christians. Hindus themselves believe in Shiva, Vishnu, and Brahma as all being the one Brahman. Isn't this a trinity? Three in one? Please, define trinity.
A threefold plurality of gods is a tritheism; the word "trinity", embodying an essential unity, can only refer to one God. You either have three persons in one God (Trinity) or three gods (tritheism). You cannot have a "trinity of gods"! The very word "trinity" means "tri-unity" and anyone who speaks of a "trinity of gods" shows that he has no basic understanding of the trinitarian concept.
IN HIS EXTENSIVE WORKS AND READ HOW MR,HEART IS BACKED UP BY ANOTHER EGYPTOLOGIST DR. G. LANG WHO SAYS THESE EARLY TRINITYS GAVE BIRTH TO YOURS.i could go on and on.concerning paul you know what i meant YOUR RUNNING JOEBLOW GO TO FURTHER EXPLAINAION. jesus being glorified go to the vid. all prophets glorified. on pre existance go to jerimiah1;5 we were all with god in his infinite knowlege.on the church fathers i am not hear to write a book for YOU,you read like i did.superficial responces by u
from pagan religions that i could name all you need to do is look at the various chaistian holidays and religious observances today as we speak on triad or trinity YOU ARE LOST AND WITHOUT EVEN THE SLIGHTEST IDEA OF WHAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT i sugest you study the trinitys of the mesopatamians.read historian N.F SAGGS who wrote meso.and babylonian trinitys consisted of 3 gods of equal rank whos inter relationship is of the essence of there nature p.316 .read what G.HEART says about egypts trinity
1. Christmas easter etc... is not a valid claim that The origins of Christianty or the Nt is pagan Because one Christmas is not something in scripture. If you want to prove something you need the scriptures of the NT to back you up.
Also fate i had Look at the Babylonian gods and eqypt.
horis Osiris isis etc.... already study them and they are not a trinity seen as One God but One family seen as 3 seperate gods. so go ahead ame babyioan gods or eqypt. Name some others for me to check out.
i never said philo wrote the n.t i said that jn.1;1 was taken from philo and i produced the actual verse that predate philo watch the vidio and see what i actually said.and i can producu more verse from philo that predate paul wich paul copied and put in his various letters.on art you have come back with nothing.on changing the subject you dont even know the subject much like my oponent in the debate on mithra that is only one of a hoast of christian borrowing
Fate The problem is the word be with God or his word being a force etc... is something that pre-dates philo. it found in the old testament. You had not comment on what the bible means The tongue brings life and death yet.
N micha 5:2 it refering to the messiah which is Jesus refering Him to be a ruler who rule is everlasting. everything paul said comes from the old testament. isaiah 9:6 gives the messiah a name called mighty God notice not might god littleg but God.
Genesis says let us creat man in OUR image. Micha 5:2 says the messiah Kingdom is everlasting. daniel 7 has the son of man worship The text does not say serve like you claim but worship. i can go on but it clear where paul get his idea.
again as for Mithra the evidence is against you mithra the roman version did not come into place unti late first century. the NT was already written before then.
5. your first arugment that philo wrote the NT and you quick change your argument to he inspire the apostles etc... your arugment about art is invlaid due it has nothing to do with the foundation of Christianity. all i see is lots of assuming and a lot of changing the subject.
2. you push that romans follow Mithra before jesus even when all evidence is against you on this part scholar side and archeology side because the oldest things we have of roman mithra are dated about 100ad.
3. your comment on philo is invalid due to even the bible holds to words being a true force before romans or greek time.
4. You quote church fathers but not in whole and I have church fathers who believe in the trinity.
fate do not lie i did respond to the trinty concept.
You have a hard understanding of understand what a trad is. it means a group of 3 that are complete separate in nature essence and character. This is the opposite of what the trinity teaches
maybe you think you know better than paul who had his bags packed ready for jesus return and who also taught his decieples to pack theres and not even to have sex every jerk at that time would look to the sky waiting for his quick return on that again no responce on peter and james and there teachings no responce ijust mentioned mithra do u think thats it christianity not only copied from there but from many many other pagan religions christi.foundational core faith statement is completly pagan
also i would like where paul said in to pack there bags etc..... I can not find anywhere in my NT the discples saying jesus is coming Now but i can f ind where the disciples believe that it could happen at any moment any any time in History.
on the scholers i mentioned you chose one scholer to adress did not respond to others on the coments on the fathers of the chuch no responce and i did not even mention celsus on the influence of hellinisum and its effect on the jews no responce on the jews of the diaspra no responce.on the pathetic responce of jesus refering to father not his nature is not even worth comenting on y did u even use that is beyond me and u on your equally if not more pathetic responce on false prophesies by jesus
1. God is Jesus father by his relationship and if you do not want to comment on that then that not my problem. jesus even said father glory me with you that i had with you before the world was. Your reply that every prophet was given glory that is correct BUT where they given glory before the world existed? no because the prophets did not exist yet like jesus did.
fate i bet your reading your bias into the text of the fathers. you want my reply? i can name numerious of fathers that KNEW the 12 the same disciples of that NT and they written with a trinity beleif concept.
like the rest i think respectly your crazy you have not answerd nothing all you are doing is using the same cheap desparate debate tactic my oponent used by claiming that i did not answer or that you some how proved your point debunking mine sir you havent done squat.i presented philo verses nothing from you on verse,on mithra same thing roman legions practicing for long time before jesus no sane responce from you or is it your help on art i said look at catholic churches no respnce
Fate i already respond to your philo idea and already show you before him the hebrews and people in the Ot times saw words different then we today. people today think words are words but people long ago saw words to be a actual force. The bible even says life and death come from the tongue but when God spoke the word into existed His word brought life.
also about the romans you need to check When the roman Mithra came into play. it about the late first century earlier second and went through the 3-4 the forth coming under greek myths at that time. it did not come before the New testmant sorry my friend.
as for the art like I said art has no hold to the The foundation of Christianty. the apostles did not paint a picture and say this is what he looks like. the only picture we have is in revelation with jesus in his exalted form.
what Load of false prophesy did jesus give? you keep changing the subject. Please stick to one subject.
When jesus said there are some of you that will not die until you see the son of man come refers to his transformation not a second coming. so what else did jesus say false?
The problem is The new creation did not arise until after the New testament.
Roman worship of Mithras began sometime during the early Roman empire, perhaps during the late first century of the Common Era (hereafter CE), and flourished from the second through the fourth century BCE. during which it came under the influence of Greek and Roman mythologies. The Mithraic cult maintained secrecy. Its teaching were only reveled to initiates.
AND THATS JUST COMON SENSE.on jesuses false prophesies click into to futher explainations for the info. that is irifutable jesus acording to bible makes truck load of faild prophesies how can u be god and not even qualify as a prophet .on co existance jesus was created jn.3,16 on co equal jesus says ,the father greater than i ,the father is greater than all.the slave not greater than the master nor is the one sent greater than the one who sent him thats jesus talking not your rabbi paul
By the time of the First International Congress of Mithraic Studies in the early 70s, the lack of evidence of an Iranian/Roman continuity led Mithraic scholars to suspect that Roman Mithraism was "a new creation using old Iranian names and details for an exotic coloring to give a suitably esoteric appearance to a mystery cult
meaning the romans shape there own mithra and given it feast holy days etc...
YOU ARE SO WRONG MY FRIEND on so many of your asertions that its not funny on mithra dead wrong the roman legions followed long before christianty to this day those mithric wrights are followed faithfully by christianty.on trinity by you calling the pagan belief a triad u have connected christianity to it in catagory. triad in christi. will not copy triad in paganisum word 4
word or docterin 4 docterin because like the cheating student u would get caught triads came before christi. u COPIED
fate no I"m not wrong do me a favor explain how can the romans follow the roman mithras not the Iranian one when the artifacts that are i the oldest to be dated are 100ad?
look again go to a catholic church and take A look and tell me thats a halo u .c., be honest.here is a quote from pope gregory YOU MUST NOT INTERFERE WITH ANY TRADITIONAL BELIEFS OR RELIGIOUS OBSERVANCES THAT CAN BE HARMONIZED WITH OUR CHRISTIANTY. IRANIOUS WROTE IT IS EVIDENT FROM PETERS WORDS THAT HE BELIEVED IN THE GOD OF THE JEWS NOT TRINITY .MAIMOMIDIES THE FAMED JEWISH THINKER SAID EVERY HINT OF PAGANISUM HAS BEEN CLEANED FROM THE MUSLIM TO PRAY IN MOSQE IS ALLOWED BUT NOT IN A CHURCH
IF I WERE YOU I WOULD NOT CAST STONE OF PAGANISUM ON ISLAM BECAUSE ABSOLUTLY everything about your religion is pagan jesus the son god =sole invictuse look at the drawings of him what do u see AROUND his head if i were u i would not go there BIG MISTAKE BY THE WAY ON WHAT DAY DO YOU GO TO church is it not SUN DAY.
1. It was the romans who may had a scared day on sunday. it was The roman mithras. The roman mithras started to rise about late first century earlier second. Christianity already was well spread before The roman mithras pops up.
One of the oldest artifacts that belongs to Roman mithras and it oneo f the oldest but yet dated around 100ad.
As for casting stones I think your the one to talk about casting stones. also it a halo on jesus not the sun.
Also your arugment that what behind jesus head is invalid since The idea puting a halo a sun according to you did not come until few centurys later. The puting up a halo is not one of the earliest christian practice.
But lets say you are right by your own Belief the Nt is pagan?
what about islam.
1. The cresent moon was borrow by pagans. it can be found on pagan gods Like Sin and others.
2. Muhammad's ascent into heaven there a story in the religion of Zoroastrian that had had a priest ascend to Heaven to meet God and return as his messanger.
3. The throwing rocks at the devil can be found in pagan practices. I can name more but what does this say about islam?
There not one pagan myth that has One God who is one nature, one essence.
In fact trads often frought upond there self trying to be the top god in a family. there are many storyies of gods killing other gods in pagan myths etc....
MAKE GOD A FATHER.this statement by tertulian distroys jn.1;1.he did not believe in the co eternal -co equal pre existance of jesus with the father there by erasing jn.1;1.james the brother of jesus and peter also did not believe read books of acts and james.read the impact of pagan triads and greek culture on the jews by -A.HISLOP, E. HOMUNG, S.H. HOOKE W. DURANT, DR.G. LANG . W. BAUER, A.C McGIFFERT,J.M CAMPBELL,D. KELLY, A. HARNACK , A. LUNERGAN, JUST TO NAME A FEW even read writings of the
Please post the whole thing not part what tertulian says.
1. a. hislop his book is discredit by mkany scholars. he mixes myths with half truths to make his case. he always say Nimrod had a wife and this started the trinty but when we look this so called wife this not even live in the same century of nimrod.
Also a trad means a group of 3 pagans had family of gods not a trinity.
Trinity means that The father son and Holy spirit are co-existed co-equal in nature.
the diaspra and the effects of greek HELLinisum . the jews absorbed and adopted greek culture ,philosophy,mysticisum,,food,music,theater ,religion and language and from here came philo the unaware father of christianity i could give writings of philo that can be found in the writings of not only jn. but also paul who was heavily inspired by philo but also the writer of hebrews.tertulian kills jn.1;1 himself he writes-there was a time when there was niether sin to make god a judge NOR A SON TO
the example of philo who by the way came up with the term logos NOT JN. BUT PHILO, WHICH PHILO GOT FROM GREEK PHILOSOPHY NAMELY PLATO AND STOICISUM. WAS JN A STUDENT OF STOISISUM OR PLATO NO, WAS JN A JEW OF THE DIASPRA NO.FROM PHILO COMES THE INSPIRATION OF JN.1;1 HERE IT IS - THE PRIMAL EXISTANCE IS GOD AND NEXT TO HIM IS THE WORD OF GOD THE DIVINE WORD IS PLACED IN THE CLOSEST PROXCIMITY TO THE ONLY EXISTING GOD WITHOUT ANY PARTICIAN OR DISTANCE BEFORE THEM. THIS PREDATES JN.STUDY THE JEWS
fate your argument does not stand The Old testament people of long ago view The term word means more then just saying something but also had the term word to mean an active force. even just having a thought can do something. The bible even says death and life come from The Tongue. Jesus is the word which the world was brought forth. he was the actual Force.
opps correction my self on other post where isaid it looks like Muhammad looks like he did not believe the bible was change I mean it looks like he believe it was not change
of the weakness of the christian posistion WHERE SO CALLED PIOUS MEN ADDED AND SUBTRACTED FROM THE SO CALLED WORD OF GOD DISOBAYING GODS COMMAND IN THE PROCESS WHICH FORBADE ADDING OR CHANGING THE WORD IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM .THERE IS NO TEACHING IN THE BIBLE THAT JUSTIFYS PIOUS FRAUD TRULY HELL IS YOUR ABODE READ MT.7;21-22.PHILO IS THE FATHER OF YOUR INOVATION AND BLASPHAMY AGAINST GOD HE INFLUENCED NOT ONLY WHO EVER THE HECK JN.WAS BUT ALSO PAUL AND THE SO CALLED WRITER OF HEBREWS I GAVE
joe blow.look at your own words you say he MOST LIKELY.YOU YOURSELF DEFEAT AND CONTRADICT YOUR OWN ASERTIONS JUST LIKE THE MAJORITY OF YOUR SCHOLERS NONE OF YOU ARE SURE AND THATS YOUR PROBLEM.now as for philo do you get your info. from a comic book or what.click into all comments and see what i wrote i give you jn.1;1 written by philo and then jn.version 2 things -1. not inspired by god 2-taken from pagan sourses .pious fraud is the deception of the devil it is an undeniable proof of the
where did I contradiction my self? i do not see it.
Philo lived 20 bc-50 ad.
The gospel of john is dated 80-100ad due to john opens and defends The gospel of Christ against Gnotics which that dcotrine did not rise in the church until 80-100ad and also first john have very common style of john the gospel meaning the style of words etc... can match.
things you need to prove.
that Philo lived during the time john the gospel and the Gnostic arose around 50ad at least.
also john and john 1 are puted to be written in the late first century earlier second. Your arugments that philo wrote john 1 does not hold because it does not pass the test of time.
john-80-100ad
john1-90-120ad
john the beloved is believe to live maybe to 101 ad.
faith The thought of John 1:1 being written before John The majority of scholars would disagree.
it is agree that John and it was john no one else that written his gospel during 80-100ad john 1 has very simular grammar and word uses in john gospel and also John 1 admits to be a eye witness of Jesus while on earth. it is to understand it to be the same john The one that stayed with jesus while he was on the cross
In end for now rev 1:8 if you have a bible that records everything jeesus says in red you will find rev 1:8 in red and what does Jesus say who is to come The almighty!! but who is returning? both islam and christians says jesus!
Revelation 1:8 (King James Version) 8I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
scholars put reveelation about 95-100ad the earliest evidence leads to John the beloved is t he writter and john records what jesus had said to him. revelation even means The testimony of jesus Christ.
if you want to think john The beloved is lieing jesus did not say this go ahead.
also jesus did not give false prophet The idea that Jesus was saying my second coming is in the first century is not correct. The term there be some here who do not face death until they see the son of man come in his kinddom refer to his transformation not a second coming. Youi can go to christian think tank and click on subject area it has a long page on the matter.
s for The rest of this debate the person pushs aside paul words saying jesus did not say it paul did but maybe This person forgot that The HG inspirie the writters as he did in the OT. Are we to say The OT is not God word h imself but what the prophets say?
AT 1;01 OF VIDIO 8 I POINTED OUT THAT JESUS APARENTLY FOR GOT THAT OTHERS were also taken up to heaven acordong to the bible. why did jesus the god man get it wrong there 2 possible reasons why number 1 - jesus jesus was not god because god does not forget or number 2-jesus was wright and the bible was wrong which distroys the bibles claim that it was inspired by god and that it is free of mistakes either way check mate you lost which is why my oponent chose to not answer the question
May God have mercy on you and may you join Jesus, Muhammad, the rest of the Prophets and all the Muslims in Al-Islam. Please read your Septuagint regarding Exodus 3:14 and before you make Jesus God make sure first that he qualifies as a Prophet.
Pro-locos this is it. You have not answered not even one of my points, while I have answered all of yours. Readers, read my post and see for yourselves. The verses in your last post I considered addressing again, but you cannot make the blind to see and it is a waste of my time. Read your bible well and you will see that the verses that you use suggest in no way that Jesus is God. They only show Paul's talent for embellishment.
And that Quranic system of Quranic authenticity challenges and welcomes intense scrutiny to further prove its Divine origin, while to the bible it is its death.Debate me or revert back to your just and well deserved insignificance.Right now you are a waste of my time.
Read Augustan's commentary on the founder of your religion Philo in his book Di Viris Ilustribus where it says-Either Plato philonisices or Philo Platonisices.Pagan=Philo=founder=Paul=Jn.=Rev.=Pagan christianityAs to Bart Ehrman,if uses the same criteria for the Quran that he used for the bible he will become Muslim.Because all the problems of integrity and authenticity that plague the bible are addressed systematically and meticulously in the methodology of preservation of Quran.
Here is another example. The word wherewith also he God made the world, the word of God, through whom the whole universe was framed. = All things where made by him and without him was not anything made that was made.Philo 1:3=John1:3. And the word appointed as judge and mediator who is called Angel=And the father has commited judgement to the son.Philo 5:22=John5:22. Philo=John=Paul=Hebrews=Revelations=Pagan Christianity.
Here is John 1:1 written many years before John, penned by the pagan greco, jewish, philosopher and father of your religion Philo and he states,"The primal existence is God and next to him is the word of God. The divine word is placed in the closest proximity to the only existing God without any partition or distance before them." - Philo 1:1=John 1:1
How would you feel being sentenced to death by the hearsay evidence of an unidentified, fourth person removed,non-existing witnessed.Let me then flip the switch on the electric chair for you.
Pro-locos 0000 you say only debate scholarly Muslims, while you engage me via the comp., and who at the same time chooses not to answer even a half of one of my questions or points. It is obvious to me that you are like your faith fake,contrived,untenable,and worthless. 0000 read the context of John Messiah, Messiah, Messiah. As for John 1:1, it seems that your faith either lives or dies on the uncorroborated hearsay of an unidentified author.
Readers read my comments from the bottom up and the Quranic verses from top to bottom. Disregard Daniel 9:14, I meant Daniel 7:14 which speaks of the Messiah being served not worshiped.
Noble Quran Surah 5:17 "Most certainly they have disbelieved who say: ' Allah is the Christ, the son of Mary ' , but the Christ said: 'O Children of Israel! Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord, whoever ascribes partners with Allah, Allah will forbid him the Garden, and the Fire will be his abode, and the wrongdoers will have no protectors.
"Most certaintly they have disbelieved who say: 'Allah is One of Three',for there is no God(worthy of worship)but one God, and if they do not desist from what they say, surely, a painful chastisement shall befall the disbelievers among them."
Noble Quran Surah 16:120-123 "And Abraham was a leader, devoutly obedient to Allah,of pure faith,and he was never of the polytheists.He was grateful for His Favours,We chose him,and guided him to the Straight Path.And We blessed him with goodness in this world,and surely he shall be among the righteous in the Hereafter.Then We revealed to you:'Follow the religion of Abraham,a man of pure faith,who was never of the polytheists."
And also what is the correct rendering of Exodus 3: 14 in the septuagint? Is it really "I am" (ego eimi) or something else? By the way how many times did God call Ezekiel son of man?
Jesus calls himself 82 times son of man. Not to connect himself to book of Daniel 9:14, but to distance himself from it, to destroy it with the statements of the God whom he worshiped and served. Book of Acts 3: 13, Matthew 12: 18, John 4: 34. Pro-locos what is the "I am" mean in John 4: 25,26? And what did it mean in John 9: 9?
Was Jesus lying when he said John 18:36, which states not to fight because I am not of this world, but in Luke 22:36 he tells Peter to buy swords. And Peter cuts the ear of the servant of the high priest. Was jesus lying here also? Now read book of Hosea 11:9, Job 25:4-6, Malachi 3:6, Eccli. 3:18, and James 1:17.
On Daniel 9:14 it speaks of Messiah not God. You say that according to the verse the son of man is to be worshiped. Did God knows this? Because God says Numbers 23:19, by the way God says in the verse He is not a man that he should lie nor the son of man. Jesus said that he is the son of man. WOW did Jesus also lie see John 7: 7-10 secretly. In Mark 10: 28-30 Jesus told the disciples that they would be rich. How truthful was he?
If you wish to debate me, I will defer to any rules and conditions you desire. Contact me via the computer and i will give you a number you can contact me at. Lets get it done. On John 1:1, that was answered see vid. Please read Philo Alexandrius, who predates John by about 150 years. You will see John 1:1 in Philo's text 150 years before John. Philo is the father of your religion. Whos influence permeates the new testament, specifically Paul, the so called John, and the writer of Hebrews.
Which has not been met historically or presently by any church or individual. So you are forced to resort to imaginative literary contortionism of scripture. And the attempts of Paul to greco philosophically reason that Jesus is God. Coupled with the hearsay and uncorroborative statements of an unidentified write. You wishfully call John. I could use hundred of verses to prove my point. But the computer is not my medium. I prefer face to face.
Pro-locos you base your salvation on Jesus being God, while Jesus' belief and teachings testify boldly against you. The burden of proof is not on me. I believe as Jesus, Muhammad SAW, and the prophets believe, which are firmly grounded in the direct teachings of God himself. The burden of proof is completely on you. You must prove that Jesus is God. Not just to me but to Jesus himself, whos teachings and beliefs stand firmly and clearly against you. A heavy burden indeed.
pro-locos. dan 7; 9-14 was answerd watch the vid.prolocos should we also worship daniel refer to book of dan.2;46-49 did the god fearing danniel stop the king from worshipping at his feet no he did not why pro-locos.should we then also worship saul read 1 sam.24;7-9 david bowed and prostrated befoe saul and the god fearing saul did not stop david why pro-locos.more examples 2. sam. 14;4,2. sam. 14;22 .does the pope stop any body from prostrating at his feet no why pro-locos does dali lama no
@julio14335 Did Jesus created himself in the womb of his mother or did he the one who created his mother?
julio14335 3 weeks ago
Comment removed
julio14335 3 weeks ago
jesus said in the bible that he is the last prophet and every thing which will come after (rael, mahomet, benny) are anti-christ
MrItach74 3 months ago
@MrItach74 That's interesting, Jesus said in the bible that he is the last prophet? Where did he say that?
Before you show that verse (I'm sure you can't find it), read this one:
Acts 13:1 In the church at Antioch there were prophets and teachers: Barnabas, Simeon called Niger, Lucius of Cyrene, Manaen (who had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch) and Saul.
This verse is after Jesus.
Summadat 3 months ago
@Summadat mathew 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
MrItach74 2 months ago
@MrItach74 I think I asked for a verse in which Jesus declared that he's the last prophet. If an investor was to tell you that many con-men will arise, does that mean that he's the last investor on earth- no more investors will live? So why does 'many false prophets shall rise' mean that there are no more prophets to come?
Even if that's what it meant, it would mean that these other 'prophets' that were preaching with Paul were all false prophets...which would destroy biblical credibility.
Summadat 1 month ago
Where is the Gospel of Jesus Christ? And the Torah of Moses? All that the Christians have now is the new Testament and the old Testament, neither of which is the Gospel of Jesus nor the Torah of Moses. Yet you have the time to waste debating on books that were written by anonymous writers who have been proven to be forgers. If you are honest and truthful in your quest for the inerrant word of God as revealed to Jesus and Moses it is preserved in the final Testament the Holy Quran.
mfaume46 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
i respect the KING of the jews ( the christ) for i know that he was a great man...in all fairness, i must concede that the KING of the jews was not a deity...no, i not a muslim / jew. am only a reader that appreciates knowledge that's explicit...unclear knowledge is a suspect...it's important to remember that the the KING of the jews spoke in idioms...not to be taken literally...
this is an educational video for anyone that's interested in theology...
peace to muslims / christians.
afterray 10 months ago
Islamic man slandered Jesus.
Jesus did not lie. Jesus is referring to in John 3 that he came from heaven and so speaks with authority which no other man has.
Elijah ascended only, and Enoch as taken but they are unavailable for comment.
To suggest this means Jesus is a false prophet is foolishness.
AlexZoq 1 year ago
YEAH I'LL JUST BE A CHRISTIAN AND BELIVE WHAT PAUL SIAD WHAT JOHN SAID WHAT "KING" JAMES SAID!!!!!! YEAH U CLOWNS!!!! ILL JUST WORSHIP A MAN!!!!!!!!!! HA HA HA!!! LIE TO ME LIE TO US ALL JUST DON'T LIE TO UR SELF!!!!!
mobb77 1 year ago
incredible, what a dishonest and unfair act cutting off the voice!!! Dalcour WIN.
winracso 1 year ago
its very simple that the MUSLIM lost THE DEBATE stupid arguments
richyedd 2 years ago
why did you cut the voice off at 3:51-4:26, where he was showing you where you COULD not anwser or refute the Biblical position. I wonder why you did that. He was concluding and summarizing. Why would you do that?
MBI3030 2 years ago
@MBI3030 again your replys are consistant with our conversations you bring painfully nothing no substantive statements just general non sequiter statements.what is the natue of our spirits what is its life span?as to this glich must be temperary because this first time i seen it .this vid was produced and sponcerd by arabic christian perspective not me.i was the 1 that was edited and cut purposly as i point out in the vid at the 3minut and 5 to 6 second mark.MAY GOD LEAD U TO HIS TRUTH
TheFateofFaith 2 years ago
I do not know who edited the video. But it is clear, his concluding part of the speech was cut.
But instead of simply answer the question you attack me.
Just becuase you do not understand the Biblical context, like the verse where Jesus said many will come to me saying Lord, Lord..... You took it out of context and I showed you, but in your pride, you do not accept reprovement....
MBI3030 2 years ago
and a-typicle of christians prologos ,truthornothing and the other christians posters of comments have not responded to my offer to call me and talk point for point to prove there position .maybe they have desided to become hindus same religion, BETTER FOOD . STILL WAITING GIVE ME A CALL PEACE
TheFateofFaith 2 years ago
call and talk.... wow,u do not allow for a converstaion. You rant and rave....
MBI3030 2 years ago
i am sure u will change your name again but the content of your post will give you away. if u post again u will be dealt with acordingly. if you call me i will have some questions 4 u that god willing will make u come to your sences THERE IS ONLY ONE TRUTH AND WITHOUT IT YOU HAVE NOTHING. U ARE WORTH MUCH AND U ARE RICHLY DESERVING OF GODS MERCY OUR GOD IS ONE GOD AND MERCY AND FORGIVNESS ARE THE EASYEST AND MOST EFFORTLESS OF TASK 4 HIM CALL ME AGAIN THE NUMBER IS 1.718 .733-0234
TheFateofFaith 2 years ago
fruthorNOTHING IT WAS YOU WHO BRAUGHT MITHRAS NOT ME READ ALL COMMENTS AND SEE, SO YOU LIED TO PROLOCOS. AND I STILL ANSWERED ALL YOUR QUESTIONS ON THE SUBJECT.I HAVE GOT SO MUCH MORE INFO. BUT ITS A WAIST OF TIME U DO NOT DESERVE MY EFFORTS BUT LIKE I SAID I AM WILLING TO TALK TO U PERSONALY I FEAR NOTHING BUT GOD HIS TRUTH IS MY SHIELD U HAVE MY PHONE AND MY FACE IS ON MY VIDIOS CALL ME OR IS YOUR FAITH AS WEAK AS YOUR POST COMMENTS.IF YOU DO NOT CALL YOU WILL BE EXPOSED FOR WHAT U ARE
TheFateofFaith 2 years ago
TRUTHORNOTHING u chose a perfect name for yourself u got NO TRUTH and U AINT NOTHING. AGAIN U COME BACK WITH B--L SH-T. IF JESUS IS GOD PRAY TO HIM FOR A BRAIN. NONE OF MY POINTS DEALT WITH .BEFORE I GO ON LET ME MAKE A CORRECTION THE WARNING AGAINST TAMPERING FROM JN. WAS NOT IN BOOK OFJN. BUT IN REV.22;18-19 ALSO COMES WITH A VARY NICE FALSE PROPHECY IN NEXT VERSE- V.20.NOW, NO RESPONCE TO LYING BY JESUS NO RESPONCE TO NOT MEETING LAWS OF VALID SACEAFICE NO RESPONCE TO CURUPTION IN BIBLE
TheFateofFaith 2 years ago
ONE of the things i meant when i said YOU COME AT ME WITH NOTHING IS THAT YOUR ARGUMENTS ARE SUPERFICIAL THEY CARRY NO WAIGHT THEY ARE INSIGNIFICANT NOT TO MENTION THE FACT THAT YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT I AM SAYING WHICH IS WHY YOU ENGAUGE ME THE WAY YOU DO.I give u refrences ,scholers .quotes,and proofs and you come back with a feathers waight. iWILL BE MORE THAN HAPPY TO TALK TO YOU PERSONALLY CALL 1-718.733-0234 ASK FOR ABDUL MALIK IF I AM NOT THERE LEAVE YOUR PHONE NUMBER YOUR POST R OVER
TheFateofFaith 2 years ago
on when curruption in bible STARTED read your own biblicle HISTORY THEN READ QURAN LIKE I SAID BEFORE I AM NOT HEAR TO WRITE A BOOK EXCLUSIVLY 4 U THERE IS NO TEACHING IN O.T ABOUT A DYING GOD MAN NOW U FIGURE IT OUT. ON THE cresent moon and other related b.s dr. robert morry has been dubed a kook by your own scholers and also is being investigated for criminal activity. christians holidays are not taught in bible but they are symtoms of christianitys pagan origins so pagan holidays NO PROBLEM
TheFateofFaith 2 years ago
broken and not met by jesus god was strict when it came to these laws read cain and able also read what god did to the sons of arran for breaking those laws remember jesus said i come not to distroy the law of the prophets but to fullfill if you believe that jesus is god he himself does not qualify under the law that he himself inspired I WOULD DARE SAY THAT A HELL OF A PROBLEM.on the torah and command to fight 4 it just another symtom of your sickness read quran all questions will be answerd
TheFateofFaith 2 years ago
which is a small part of the problem CONCERNING BIBLE INTEGRITY AND AUTHENTICITY. in JN.22 U EVEN GET ANOTHER FALSE PROPHECY TO BOOT READ V.20.ON JESUS LYING I GAVE U VERSES BUT HERE IS ONE MORE READ JN.18;36 AND COMPARE TO LK.22;36-38 HE LIED. THOU SHALL NOT LIE REMEMBER THAT. HOW MANY TIMES DID HE SAY FOOL WHAT IS THE BIBLICLE TEACHING ON JUST SAYING THE WORD I COULD GO 4 EVER ON THIS.THIS INFRACTION DISQUALIFYS JESUS AS PERFECT SACRAFICE NOT TO MENTION THAT THE BIBLICLE LAWS OF SACRAFICE WERE
TheFateofFaith 2 years ago
the bible says i am not the AUTHER OF CONFUSION what were these ecumenicle counsils if not proof positive of confusion and the inventions of men .LYERS CONSORTING on how best to tell and sell A LIE.LIKE 2 CRIMINALS ARGUING OVER AN ALIBI.I NEVER BRAUGHT UP TRENT U DID.SIR U HAVE A SICK LACK OF KNOWLEDGE ON CHURCH FATHERS on bible CORUPTION the bible it self admits it read jer.8;8 even JN . admits it IN REV.22;18-19 HE WARNS AGAINST TAMPERING WHICH WAS RAMPENT IN THE CHURCH AND ACSEPTED PRACTICE
TheFateofFaith 2 years ago
I just wanted to add to the questions The crescent Moon does it has or not have any pagan connection?
joebow34345 2 years ago
the fact is in the end Your the one that not answering any questions
joebow34345 2 years ago
The counsils was for to put order in Christianity from what the bible has already taught. They were for to put order into concepts that were already in the scriptures.
Again i came up with many things it you that used many invalid arguments like Christmas easter which has nothing to do with the foundation of Christianty also you use roman mithra even due i prove it came in the late first century. I respond to the philo account and shown you from the OT that words were seen to be a force etc..
joebow34345 2 years ago
again you come back with NOTHING i dont know why i am postingTO YOU ITS A WAIST OF TIME. now on the trinity being all over the bible what did the church fathers say to arias when he asked them to prove the trinity acording to scripture they replied with IT IS NOT IN SCRIPTURE BUT TAKE OUR WORD FOR IT THUS 2 CONCEPTS IN CHRISTIANTY WERE BORN AND LEGITIMISED 1-PIUS FRAUD AND 2 BLIND FAITH THE TRINITY IS NOT A TEACHING IN BIBLE IF IT WAS IT WOULD BE CLEAR NO NEED 4 ECUMENICLE COUNSILS
TheFateofFaith 2 years ago
I came back with Nothing? I do not think so your at the point where you said trent taught against The trinity and yet he was one of the fathers that came up with the word trinity and said God is one in essence not in person and yet you said he taught against it. i can tell you no understanding of what the church fathers taught nor there meanings.
joebow34345 2 years ago
it not in scripture take our word for it? i had read many works of the fathers never heard that one. The Word trinity is not in scripture that fathers etc.... also are clear on that but the concept is there.
joebow34345 2 years ago
also One more thing The church father trent... was of of the fathers that coined the word Trinity. The concept of the trinity is all throughout scripture with God refering to his self in the plural the hebrew text etc...... it just it was not until way later a name was made up to describe this concept.
joebow34345 2 years ago
if after explain how the bible is corrupted due to the same scripts that pre-date Muhammed were use to make translations over the centuries in different languages and yet these are the scripts that existed in Muhammad time and Today which can be found in museum throughtout the world?
joebow34345 2 years ago
this will be my last reply if The sadiq does not continues any further.
1. it not a man-man thing to have Jesus as God. Jesus himself refer to his self as the Almighty in rev 1:8. These words are from Christ mouth his self.
2. The questions which we not answer when was the bible corrupted?
before Muhammad or after?
3. if before why does he tell his followers to obey Torah and fight for the gospels?
If After then explain the maneuver scripts which some pre-date Muhammed about 200 some years
joebow34345 2 years ago
to the person who commend on me about Hindu religion
The Upanishads, Vedas and other early Hindu scriptures taught no such thing as a threefold unity between Brahma, Vishnu and Siva. The Vedas recognised at least thirty-three different gods and the three mentioned were quite simply separate gods and in great measure opposed to one another. The relationship between them just cannot be made analogous to the doctrine of the Trinity:
info from answering islam
joebow34345 2 years ago
a -just ,improve and change while god ALLAH has no such mandate ON HIMSELF because he is perfection AND HE AND HE ALONE IS THE CREATOR AND DEFINER OF WHAT PERFECTION IS HE IS THE CREATOR OF EVERYTHING THAT IS EXISTANCE AND THE POSSIBILITYS OF REALITY THAT NATURE IS CONTRARY TO MANS AND JESUS BEING PERFECT MAN HAD AS PART OF HIS NATURE MANS IMPERFECTIONS AND WEAKNESSES GOD IS NOT DOUBLE MINDED NOR IS HE IN CONFLICT WITH HIMSELF JESUS LIFE WAS the testamony of a servant of ALLAH aman and not ALLAH
TheFateofFaith 2 years ago
Jesus was never at conflict with himself in the meaning to sin or not to sin. he never sinned He was God in the flesh who had the ppwer to resist sin.
joebow34345 2 years ago
my oponent never even atempted to address jesus, the SUPOSED GOD MANS MISTAKE WHEN WHEN HE SAYS THAT HE WAS THE ONLY ONE TO ACEND TO HEAVEN this mistake speaks volumes it proves that jesus is not god in many ways, and stands as proof positive that mans imperfect nature can not and will not co-exist with god perfect nature perfection does not allow for variance or change or mistake read book of JN.1;17 .THE PERFECT MAN INCLUDES IMPERFECTION AS PART OF HIS IDENTITY he is called by god to learn
TheFateofFaith 2 years ago
Jesus reference to ascending and descending was made in reference to speaking of heavenly things, of heavenly realities. What Christ was saying is that he could speak of heavenly secrets, of heavenly matters since he is the only One who originates from heaven itself and came down from there to reveal these unseen mysteries to mankind.
joebow34345 2 years ago
Putting it another way, Jesus was saying that no one went into heaven and came down from there so as to make known the unseen heavenly realities. Elijah and Enoch did not come down after ascending from heaven. Only Christ could speak from personal experience and therefore convey these eternal realities since he comes from heaven, from the very presence of God himself:
from answeringislam
joebow34345 2 years ago
THUS THE FATHER IS DISTINKED FROM THE SON BEING GREATER THAN THE SON in as much as he who begets is one and he who begets is another he who sends is ONE and he who is SENT IS ANOTHER and he who CREATES IS ONE AND HE THROUGH WHOM THE THING IS MADE IS ANOTHER , tertulian in adversus praxean.the 3 foundations of trinity destroyed 1-no co-equality 2-no co-eternity 3- no cosstantuability.trinity AND DIVINITY OF JESUS MAN MADE INOVATION .AND THE HONUR OF JESUS IS RESTORED U- CAME WITH NOTHING ITS OVER
TheFateofFaith 2 years ago
This post does not even make sense you have a hard time of making sense when making arguments.
The father sent The son into the world he was begotten not made as for tertulian again your reading your bias Tertulian was one of the first to use the word to decribe God is One in essence not in person. so much for your idea that terulian taught against it.
joebow34345 2 years ago
do you still want to claim that jn. did not copy can you at least agree that he modified you have wasted my time this is my last post to you. tertulian wrote the son differs from the father but by distinktion the father is not the same as the son since they differ one from the other in the mode of there being for the father is the entire substance but the son is a derivation of the whole as he himself says the father is greater than I in pslms 7;5 he is discribed as being lower than the angles
TheFateofFaith 2 years ago
fate your accusing me of not answers your questions while there are a few i ask and yet you did not answer. again John 1:1 please get an understanding of the Old testament and how words are used etc... all this is befoe philo
joebow34345 2 years ago
i have provided a list of scholers. verses from philo that predate jn. also quotations from these scholer who by the way ARE NOT muslims but who are your scholers western scholers and all you give me is quite frankly the nonsence of a jerk have u- read anthing i have writen .on philo he wrote extensivly on the o.t not on the n.t since it did not exist in writen form or any other in his time THANK YOU 4 THAT JOE
TheFateofFaith 2 years ago
apalogist of any so called credibility have masters degrees in greek language and philosophy u-c-u- need a masters degree to defend a lie as to the church fathers thank you -u- made my point it shows the tremendous differences with in the church thats why you had all those ecumenicle counsils the trinity was not believed but negosiated and then savigly imposed undeniable proof that it was not inspired by god but man made . 100s of years after jesus
TheFateofFaith 2 years ago
trinity is nothing more than an adaptation of what came way before it .these trianic cultures plus the influence of greek CULTURE WITH ITS MYTHOLOGY AND PHILOSOPHY NOW GAVE THIS INOVATED COPIED IDEA TRINITY THE MEANS BY WHICH IT COULD BE JUSTIFIED EXPLAINED AND ACSEPTED,THIS IS WHERE THE GREEKS INFLUENCE BECAME THE GLUE THAT MADE THIS TRINITY ADAPTATION STICK AND GAVE IT FORM AND IDENTITY AND A MEANS OF DEFENDING ITSELF UTILISING STOICISUM AND PLATONISUM JUST TO NAME A FEW, AND WHY MOST CHRISTI.
TheFateofFaith 2 years ago
Again since they no evidence greeks romans etc... held to belief in One God you have no proof.
all you have is guessing work. the old testament is Clear the missiah rule is from everlasting. he called mighty God in isaiah 9;6 worship in daniel 7. Genesis it self says let us Create plural in our Image plual.
The actual hebrew text says remember thy creators etc... i can keep going about the OT. The thing is ALL this that was written about the messiah is before the greeks romans etc....
joebow34345 2 years ago
again you dont seem to understand these trinitys predate CHRISTIANITY the empires in question impacted israel in a vary signifiant manner one after the other through domination and conquest AGAIN I STRESS TO U THAT U MIGHT UNDERSTAND IT IS NOT EXPECTED THAT YOUR PAGAN TRINITY MODIFICATION COPY OTHERS WORD FOR WORD OR CONCEPT FOR CONCEPT OR PRECEPT FOR PRECEPT BECUASE IT WOULD HAVE BEEN REJECTED IMEDIATLY FOR WHAT IT IS INOVATION IN MONOTHIEISUM THE RELIGION OF THE JEWS AND OF JESUS CHRISTIAN
TheFateofFaith 2 years ago
fath you can repeat the same thing over and over again but the fact is NO pagans had a trinity. They are family of gods that were seen as 3 complete different gods not 3 in one God if you are right that we copy then we would to find evidence that other pagan religions held to the concept of One God. can you name one pagan religion that held to The beleif of One God?
joebow34345 2 years ago
Hinduism far out dates Christianity and is widely considered a pagan religion by both Muslims and Christians. Hindus themselves believe in Shiva, Vishnu, and Brahma as all being the one Brahman. Isn't this a trinity? Three in one? Please, define trinity.
grayknight79 2 years ago
A threefold plurality of gods is a tritheism; the word "trinity", embodying an essential unity, can only refer to one God. You either have three persons in one God (Trinity) or three gods (tritheism). You cannot have a "trinity of gods"! The very word "trinity" means "tri-unity" and anyone who speaks of a "trinity of gods" shows that he has no basic understanding of the trinitarian concept.
taken from answeringislam is The trinity pagan?
joebow34345 2 years ago
IN HIS EXTENSIVE WORKS AND READ HOW MR,HEART IS BACKED UP BY ANOTHER EGYPTOLOGIST DR. G. LANG WHO SAYS THESE EARLY TRINITYS GAVE BIRTH TO YOURS.i could go on and on.concerning paul you know what i meant YOUR RUNNING JOEBLOW GO TO FURTHER EXPLAINAION. jesus being glorified go to the vid. all prophets glorified. on pre existance go to jerimiah1;5 we were all with god in his infinite knowlege.on the church fathers i am not hear to write a book for YOU,you read like i did.superficial responces by u
TheFateofFaith 2 years ago
fate Jesus said it pretty clear glorify me father which I had with you before the world.
your trying to change the NT text. why can you not let the verse read it self? which i had with you before the world was?
as for church fathers your the one that started to quote there words not me I just gave a list for you to check out.
as for egypt trinity there no such thing as 3 In One in egypt. There no Trinity in egypt but many trads.
joebow34345 2 years ago
from pagan religions that i could name all you need to do is look at the various chaistian holidays and religious observances today as we speak on triad or trinity YOU ARE LOST AND WITHOUT EVEN THE SLIGHTEST IDEA OF WHAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT i sugest you study the trinitys of the mesopatamians.read historian N.F SAGGS who wrote meso.and babylonian trinitys consisted of 3 gods of equal rank whos inter relationship is of the essence of there nature p.316 .read what G.HEART says about egypts trinity
TheFateofFaith 2 years ago
fate again
1. Christmas easter etc... is not a valid claim that The origins of Christianty or the Nt is pagan Because one Christmas is not something in scripture. If you want to prove something you need the scriptures of the NT to back you up.
joebow34345 2 years ago
Also fate i had Look at the Babylonian gods and eqypt.
horis Osiris isis etc.... already study them and they are not a trinity seen as One God but One family seen as 3 seperate gods. so go ahead ame babyioan gods or eqypt. Name some others for me to check out.
joebow34345 2 years ago
i never said philo wrote the n.t i said that jn.1;1 was taken from philo and i produced the actual verse that predate philo watch the vidio and see what i actually said.and i can producu more verse from philo that predate paul wich paul copied and put in his various letters.on art you have come back with nothing.on changing the subject you dont even know the subject much like my oponent in the debate on mithra that is only one of a hoast of christian borrowing
TheFateofFaith 2 years ago
Fate The problem is the word be with God or his word being a force etc... is something that pre-dates philo. it found in the old testament. You had not comment on what the bible means The tongue brings life and death yet.
I
joebow34345 2 years ago
N micha 5:2 it refering to the messiah which is Jesus refering Him to be a ruler who rule is everlasting. everything paul said comes from the old testament. isaiah 9:6 gives the messiah a name called mighty God notice not might god littleg but God.
Genesis says let us creat man in OUR image. Micha 5:2 says the messiah Kingdom is everlasting. daniel 7 has the son of man worship The text does not say serve like you claim but worship. i can go on but it clear where paul get his idea.
joebow34345 2 years ago
again as for Mithra the evidence is against you mithra the roman version did not come into place unti late first century. the NT was already written before then.
joebow34345 2 years ago
5. your first arugment that philo wrote the NT and you quick change your argument to he inspire the apostles etc... your arugment about art is invlaid due it has nothing to do with the foundation of Christianity. all i see is lots of assuming and a lot of changing the subject.
joebow34345 2 years ago
so far.
1. you have a misundstanding of what a trad is.
2. you push that romans follow Mithra before jesus even when all evidence is against you on this part scholar side and archeology side because the oldest things we have of roman mithra are dated about 100ad.
3. your comment on philo is invalid due to even the bible holds to words being a true force before romans or greek time.
4. You quote church fathers but not in whole and I have church fathers who believe in the trinity.
joebow34345 2 years ago
as for the church fathers again do not quote in part i want there auctal words.
I can give you
The Epistle of Barnabas
Clement bishop of Rome
Ignatius bishop of Antioch
Hermas
Polycarp bishop of Smyrna
Mathetes
who all had held a a trinity concept and these are apostlics fathers who knew the the the apostles of jesus.
joebow34345 2 years ago
no responce to trinity being borrowed and modified no responce no responce of any significance to anything
TheFateofFaith 2 years ago
fate do not lie i did respond to the trinty concept.
You have a hard understanding of understand what a trad is. it means a group of 3 that are complete separate in nature essence and character. This is the opposite of what the trinity teaches
joebow34345 2 years ago
maybe you think you know better than paul who had his bags packed ready for jesus return and who also taught his decieples to pack theres and not even to have sex every jerk at that time would look to the sky waiting for his quick return on that again no responce on peter and james and there teachings no responce ijust mentioned mithra do u think thats it christianity not only copied from there but from many many other pagan religions christi.foundational core faith statement is completly pagan
TheFateofFaith 2 years ago
also i would like where paul said in to pack there bags etc..... I can not find anywhere in my NT the discples saying jesus is coming Now but i can f ind where the disciples believe that it could happen at any moment any any time in History.
joebow34345 2 years ago
on the scholers i mentioned you chose one scholer to adress did not respond to others on the coments on the fathers of the chuch no responce and i did not even mention celsus on the influence of hellinisum and its effect on the jews no responce on the jews of the diaspra no responce.on the pathetic responce of jesus refering to father not his nature is not even worth comenting on y did u even use that is beyond me and u on your equally if not more pathetic responce on false prophesies by jesus
TheFateofFaith 2 years ago
1. God is Jesus father by his relationship and if you do not want to comment on that then that not my problem. jesus even said father glory me with you that i had with you before the world was. Your reply that every prophet was given glory that is correct BUT where they given glory before the world existed? no because the prophets did not exist yet like jesus did.
joebow34345 2 years ago
fate i bet your reading your bias into the text of the fathers. you want my reply? i can name numerious of fathers that KNEW the 12 the same disciples of that NT and they written with a trinity beleif concept.
joebow34345 2 years ago
like the rest i think respectly your crazy you have not answerd nothing all you are doing is using the same cheap desparate debate tactic my oponent used by claiming that i did not answer or that you some how proved your point debunking mine sir you havent done squat.i presented philo verses nothing from you on verse,on mithra same thing roman legions practicing for long time before jesus no sane responce from you or is it your help on art i said look at catholic churches no respnce
TheFateofFaith 2 years ago
so you failed at mithra accout philo account and the art count and sunday account. any more claims?
joebow34345 2 years ago
fath there are many questions you did not answer
1. like when i ask when was the bible change.
2. why did Muhammad uphold the Torah and the gospels.
3. why there are scripts from the Nt that pre-date Muhammad about 200 years and more.
The truth is you did not answer those questions
joebow34345 2 years ago
Fate i already respond to your philo idea and already show you before him the hebrews and people in the Ot times saw words different then we today. people today think words are words but people long ago saw words to be a actual force. The bible even says life and death come from the tongue but when God spoke the word into existed His word brought life.
joebow34345 2 years ago
also about the romans you need to check When the roman Mithra came into play. it about the late first century earlier second and went through the 3-4 the forth coming under greek myths at that time. it did not come before the New testmant sorry my friend.
joebow34345 2 years ago
as for the art like I said art has no hold to the The foundation of Christianty. the apostles did not paint a picture and say this is what he looks like. the only picture we have is in revelation with jesus in his exalted form.
joebow34345 2 years ago
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joebow34345 2 years ago
When jesus says the father is greater then I he referring to his relationship to his father not his nature.
joebow34345 2 years ago
what Load of false prophesy did jesus give? you keep changing the subject. Please stick to one subject.
When jesus said there are some of you that will not die until you see the son of man come refers to his transformation not a second coming. so what else did jesus say false?
joebow34345 2 years ago
The problem is The new creation did not arise until after the New testament.
Roman worship of Mithras began sometime during the early Roman empire, perhaps during the late first century of the Common Era (hereafter CE), and flourished from the second through the fourth century BCE. during which it came under the influence of Greek and Roman mythologies. The Mithraic cult maintained secrecy. Its teaching were only reveled to initiates.
joebow34345 2 years ago
AND THATS JUST COMON SENSE.on jesuses false prophesies click into to futher explainations for the info. that is irifutable jesus acording to bible makes truck load of faild prophesies how can u be god and not even qualify as a prophet .on co existance jesus was created jn.3,16 on co equal jesus says ,the father greater than i ,the father is greater than all.the slave not greater than the master nor is the one sent greater than the one who sent him thats jesus talking not your rabbi paul
TheFateofFaith 2 years ago
This is what The scholars say about the subject
By the time of the First International Congress of Mithraic Studies in the early 70s, the lack of evidence of an Iranian/Roman continuity led Mithraic scholars to suspect that Roman Mithraism was "a new creation using old Iranian names and details for an exotic coloring to give a suitably esoteric appearance to a mystery cult
meaning the romans shape there own mithra and given it feast holy days etc...
joebow34345 2 years ago
YOU ARE SO WRONG MY FRIEND on so many of your asertions that its not funny on mithra dead wrong the roman legions followed long before christianty to this day those mithric wrights are followed faithfully by christianty.on trinity by you calling the pagan belief a triad u have connected christianity to it in catagory. triad in christi. will not copy triad in paganisum word 4
word or docterin 4 docterin because like the cheating student u would get caught triads came before christi. u COPIED
TheFateofFaith 2 years ago
fate no I"m not wrong do me a favor explain how can the romans follow the roman mithras not the Iranian one when the artifacts that are i the oldest to be dated are 100ad?
joebow34345 2 years ago
look again go to a catholic church and take A look and tell me thats a halo u .c., be honest.here is a quote from pope gregory YOU MUST NOT INTERFERE WITH ANY TRADITIONAL BELIEFS OR RELIGIOUS OBSERVANCES THAT CAN BE HARMONIZED WITH OUR CHRISTIANTY. IRANIOUS WROTE IT IS EVIDENT FROM PETERS WORDS THAT HE BELIEVED IN THE GOD OF THE JEWS NOT TRINITY .MAIMOMIDIES THE FAMED JEWISH THINKER SAID EVERY HINT OF PAGANISUM HAS BEEN CLEANED FROM THE MUSLIM TO PRAY IN MOSQE IS ALLOWED BUT NOT IN A CHURCH
TheFateofFaith 2 years ago
fate It is a halo not a sun. Not even Historians or scholars make that claim.
Your arugment is still invalid because halo whatever is not the foundation of Christianity. The art did not come until centurys later.
joebow34345 2 years ago
IF I WERE YOU I WOULD NOT CAST STONE OF PAGANISUM ON ISLAM BECAUSE ABSOLUTLY everything about your religion is pagan jesus the son god =sole invictuse look at the drawings of him what do u see AROUND his head if i were u i would not go there BIG MISTAKE BY THE WAY ON WHAT DAY DO YOU GO TO church is it not SUN DAY.
TheFateofFaith 2 years ago
Comment removed
joebow34345 2 years ago
1. It was the romans who may had a scared day on sunday. it was The roman mithras. The roman mithras started to rise about late first century earlier second. Christianity already was well spread before The roman mithras pops up.
One of the oldest artifacts that belongs to Roman mithras and it oneo f the oldest but yet dated around 100ad.
As for casting stones I think your the one to talk about casting stones. also it a halo on jesus not the sun.
joebow34345 2 years ago
Also your arugment that what behind jesus head is invalid since The idea puting a halo a sun according to you did not come until few centurys later. The puting up a halo is not one of the earliest christian practice.
joebow34345 2 years ago
I mean the cresent moon was borrow from Muslims from the pagans sorry typo error.
joebow34345 2 years ago
But lets say you are right by your own Belief the Nt is pagan?
what about islam.
1. The cresent moon was borrow by pagans. it can be found on pagan gods Like Sin and others.
2. Muhammad's ascent into heaven there a story in the religion of Zoroastrian that had had a priest ascend to Heaven to meet God and return as his messanger.
3. The throwing rocks at the devil can be found in pagan practices. I can name more but what does this say about islam?
joebow34345 2 years ago
There not one pagan myth that has One God who is one nature, one essence.
In fact trads often frought upond there self trying to be the top god in a family. there are many storyies of gods killing other gods in pagan myths etc....
joebow34345 2 years ago
MAKE GOD A FATHER.this statement by tertulian distroys jn.1;1.he did not believe in the co eternal -co equal pre existance of jesus with the father there by erasing jn.1;1.james the brother of jesus and peter also did not believe read books of acts and james.read the impact of pagan triads and greek culture on the jews by -A.HISLOP, E. HOMUNG, S.H. HOOKE W. DURANT, DR.G. LANG . W. BAUER, A.C McGIFFERT,J.M CAMPBELL,D. KELLY, A. HARNACK , A. LUNERGAN, JUST TO NAME A FEW even read writings of the
TheFateofFaith 2 years ago
Please post the whole thing not part what tertulian says.
1. a. hislop his book is discredit by mkany scholars. he mixes myths with half truths to make his case. he always say Nimrod had a wife and this started the trinty but when we look this so called wife this not even live in the same century of nimrod.
Also a trad means a group of 3 pagans had family of gods not a trinity.
Trinity means that The father son and Holy spirit are co-existed co-equal in nature.
joebow34345 2 years ago
the diaspra and the effects of greek HELLinisum . the jews absorbed and adopted greek culture ,philosophy,mysticisum,,food,music,theater ,religion and language and from here came philo the unaware father of christianity i could give writings of philo that can be found in the writings of not only jn. but also paul who was heavily inspired by philo but also the writer of hebrews.tertulian kills jn.1;1 himself he writes-there was a time when there was niether sin to make god a judge NOR A SON TO
TheFateofFaith 2 years ago
fate The hebrews long before the greeks held to logos as a divine plane.
joebow34345 2 years ago
the example of philo who by the way came up with the term logos NOT JN. BUT PHILO, WHICH PHILO GOT FROM GREEK PHILOSOPHY NAMELY PLATO AND STOICISUM. WAS JN A STUDENT OF STOISISUM OR PLATO NO, WAS JN A JEW OF THE DIASPRA NO.FROM PHILO COMES THE INSPIRATION OF JN.1;1 HERE IT IS - THE PRIMAL EXISTANCE IS GOD AND NEXT TO HIM IS THE WORD OF GOD THE DIVINE WORD IS PLACED IN THE CLOSEST PROXCIMITY TO THE ONLY EXISTING GOD WITHOUT ANY PARTICIAN OR DISTANCE BEFORE THEM. THIS PREDATES JN.STUDY THE JEWS
TheFateofFaith 2 years ago
fate your argument does not stand The Old testament people of long ago view The term word means more then just saying something but also had the term word to mean an active force. even just having a thought can do something. The bible even says death and life come from The Tongue. Jesus is the word which the world was brought forth. he was the actual Force.
joebow34345 2 years ago
I ask you a question is your accusation base on acutal facts that scholars and Historians take serious or base off your on bias your own agenda.
Out of the many debates I listen to scholars and historians i never saw once a suggested that philo had anything to do with the new testament.
joebow34345 2 years ago
as for my information.
there a site called earlier christian writtings . com and earlier church . org
joebow34345 2 years ago
opps correction my self on other post where isaid it looks like Muhammad looks like he did not believe the bible was change I mean it looks like he believe it was not change
joebow34345 2 years ago
Also when the the bible change before or after Muhammad if before then why did Muhammad aprove of it?
if after explain how sense the scripts we have which can be found in museums which some are about 200 years before Muhammad even existed?
joebow34345 2 years ago
so far you have not given any whatsoever textual evidence that either john or first john existed during 20 bc-50ad.
Also did you know that Muhammad upheld the gospels? and told others to fight for it?
he also said to obey torah etc.... it looks he did not believe the bible was not change.
joebow34345 2 years ago
of the weakness of the christian posistion WHERE SO CALLED PIOUS MEN ADDED AND SUBTRACTED FROM THE SO CALLED WORD OF GOD DISOBAYING GODS COMMAND IN THE PROCESS WHICH FORBADE ADDING OR CHANGING THE WORD IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM .THERE IS NO TEACHING IN THE BIBLE THAT JUSTIFYS PIOUS FRAUD TRULY HELL IS YOUR ABODE READ MT.7;21-22.PHILO IS THE FATHER OF YOUR INOVATION AND BLASPHAMY AGAINST GOD HE INFLUENCED NOT ONLY WHO EVER THE HECK JN.WAS BUT ALSO PAUL AND THE SO CALLED WRITER OF HEBREWS I GAVE
TheFateofFaith 2 years ago
joe blow.look at your own words you say he MOST LIKELY.YOU YOURSELF DEFEAT AND CONTRADICT YOUR OWN ASERTIONS JUST LIKE THE MAJORITY OF YOUR SCHOLERS NONE OF YOU ARE SURE AND THATS YOUR PROBLEM.now as for philo do you get your info. from a comic book or what.click into all comments and see what i wrote i give you jn.1;1 written by philo and then jn.version 2 things -1. not inspired by god 2-taken from pagan sourses .pious fraud is the deception of the devil it is an undeniable proof of the
TheFateofFaith 2 years ago
where did I contradiction my self? i do not see it.
Philo lived 20 bc-50 ad.
The gospel of john is dated 80-100ad due to john opens and defends The gospel of Christ against Gnotics which that dcotrine did not rise in the church until 80-100ad and also first john have very common style of john the gospel meaning the style of words etc... can match.
things you need to prove.
that Philo lived during the time john the gospel and the Gnostic arose around 50ad at least.
joebow34345 2 years ago
forgot to add philo dates when he live to my other post.
philo lived 20 Bc-50 ad and fails short writting john gospel or john 1 by 50+ years
joebow34345 2 years ago
also john and john 1 are puted to be written in the late first century earlier second. Your arugments that philo wrote john 1 does not hold because it does not pass the test of time.
john-80-100ad
john1-90-120ad
john the beloved is believe to live maybe to 101 ad.
You need to new tactic to sue against john 1
therefore your
joebow34345 2 years ago
I Only read 10 of the comments
faith The thought of John 1:1 being written before John The majority of scholars would disagree.
it is agree that John and it was john no one else that written his gospel during 80-100ad john 1 has very simular grammar and word uses in john gospel and also John 1 admits to be a eye witness of Jesus while on earth. it is to understand it to be the same john The one that stayed with jesus while he was on the cross
joebow34345 2 years ago
In end for now rev 1:8 if you have a bible that records everything jeesus says in red you will find rev 1:8 in red and what does Jesus say who is to come The almighty!! but who is returning? both islam and christians says jesus!
joebow34345 2 years ago
read rev 1:8
Revelation 1:8 (King James Version) 8I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
scholars put reveelation about 95-100ad the earliest evidence leads to John the beloved is t he writter and john records what jesus had said to him. revelation even means The testimony of jesus Christ.
if you want to think john The beloved is lieing jesus did not say this go ahead.
joebow34345 2 years ago
also jesus did not give false prophet The idea that Jesus was saying my second coming is in the first century is not correct. The term there be some here who do not face death until they see the son of man come in his kinddom refer to his transformation not a second coming. Youi can go to christian think tank and click on subject area it has a long page on the matter.
joebow34345 2 years ago
s for The rest of this debate the person pushs aside paul words saying jesus did not say it paul did but maybe This person forgot that The HG inspirie the writters as he did in the OT. Are we to say The OT is not God word h imself but what the prophets say?
joebow34345 2 years ago
faith The gospel of John is dated 80-100 ad and this go against your case that it was written many years before John.
John 1 is dated 90ad-120 This proves that John most likely did write it since he lived during the first little bit of the second century.
joebow34345 2 years ago
AT 1;01 OF VIDIO 8 I POINTED OUT THAT JESUS APARENTLY FOR GOT THAT OTHERS were also taken up to heaven acordong to the bible. why did jesus the god man get it wrong there 2 possible reasons why number 1 - jesus jesus was not god because god does not forget or number 2-jesus was wright and the bible was wrong which distroys the bibles claim that it was inspired by god and that it is free of mistakes either way check mate you lost which is why my oponent chose to not answer the question
TheFateofFaith 2 years ago
May God have mercy on you and may you join Jesus, Muhammad, the rest of the Prophets and all the Muslims in Al-Islam. Please read your Septuagint regarding Exodus 3:14 and before you make Jesus God make sure first that he qualifies as a Prophet.
TheFateofFaith 2 years ago
Pro-locos this is it. You have not answered not even one of my points, while I have answered all of yours. Readers, read my post and see for yourselves. The verses in your last post I considered addressing again, but you cannot make the blind to see and it is a waste of my time. Read your bible well and you will see that the verses that you use suggest in no way that Jesus is God. They only show Paul's talent for embellishment.
TheFateofFaith 2 years ago
And that Quranic system of Quranic authenticity challenges and welcomes intense scrutiny to further prove its Divine origin, while to the bible it is its death.Debate me or revert back to your just and well deserved insignificance.Right now you are a waste of my time.
TheFateofFaith 2 years ago
Read Augustan's commentary on the founder of your religion Philo in his book Di Viris Ilustribus where it says-Either Plato philonisices or Philo Platonisices.Pagan=Philo=founder=Paul=Jn.=Rev.=Pagan christianityAs to Bart Ehrman,if uses the same criteria for the Quran that he used for the bible he will become Muslim.Because all the problems of integrity and authenticity that plague the bible are addressed systematically and meticulously in the methodology of preservation of Quran.
TheFateofFaith 2 years ago
Here is another example. The word wherewith also he God made the world, the word of God, through whom the whole universe was framed. = All things where made by him and without him was not anything made that was made.Philo 1:3=John1:3. And the word appointed as judge and mediator who is called Angel=And the father has commited judgement to the son.Philo 5:22=John5:22. Philo=John=Paul=Hebrews=Revelations=Pagan Christianity.
TheFateofFaith 2 years ago
Here is John 1:1 written many years before John, penned by the pagan greco, jewish, philosopher and father of your religion Philo and he states,"The primal existence is God and next to him is the word of God. The divine word is placed in the closest proximity to the only existing God without any partition or distance before them." - Philo 1:1=John 1:1
TheFateofFaith 2 years ago
How would you feel being sentenced to death by the hearsay evidence of an unidentified, fourth person removed,non-existing witnessed.Let me then flip the switch on the electric chair for you.
TheFateofFaith 2 years ago
Pro-locos 0000 you say only debate scholarly Muslims, while you engage me via the comp., and who at the same time chooses not to answer even a half of one of my questions or points. It is obvious to me that you are like your faith fake,contrived,untenable,and worthless. 0000 read the context of John Messiah, Messiah, Messiah. As for John 1:1, it seems that your faith either lives or dies on the uncorroborated hearsay of an unidentified author.
TheFateofFaith 2 years ago
Readers read my comments from the bottom up and the Quranic verses from top to bottom. Disregard Daniel 9:14, I meant Daniel 7:14 which speaks of the Messiah being served not worshiped.
TheFateofFaith 2 years ago
Noble Quran Surah 5:17 "Most certainly they have disbelieved who say: ' Allah is the Christ, the son of Mary ' , but the Christ said: 'O Children of Israel! Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord, whoever ascribes partners with Allah, Allah will forbid him the Garden, and the Fire will be his abode, and the wrongdoers will have no protectors.
TheFateofFaith 2 years ago
"Most certaintly they have disbelieved who say: 'Allah is One of Three',for there is no God(worthy of worship)but one God, and if they do not desist from what they say, surely, a painful chastisement shall befall the disbelievers among them."
TheFateofFaith 2 years ago
Noble Quran Surah 16:120-123 "And Abraham was a leader, devoutly obedient to Allah,of pure faith,and he was never of the polytheists.He was grateful for His Favours,We chose him,and guided him to the Straight Path.And We blessed him with goodness in this world,and surely he shall be among the righteous in the Hereafter.Then We revealed to you:'Follow the religion of Abraham,a man of pure faith,who was never of the polytheists."
TheFateofFaith 2 years ago
And also what is the correct rendering of Exodus 3: 14 in the septuagint? Is it really "I am" (ego eimi) or something else? By the way how many times did God call Ezekiel son of man?
TheFateofFaith 2 years ago
Jesus calls himself 82 times son of man. Not to connect himself to book of Daniel 9:14, but to distance himself from it, to destroy it with the statements of the God whom he worshiped and served. Book of Acts 3: 13, Matthew 12: 18, John 4: 34. Pro-locos what is the "I am" mean in John 4: 25,26? And what did it mean in John 9: 9?
TheFateofFaith 2 years ago
Was Jesus lying when he said John 18:36, which states not to fight because I am not of this world, but in Luke 22:36 he tells Peter to buy swords. And Peter cuts the ear of the servant of the high priest. Was jesus lying here also? Now read book of Hosea 11:9, Job 25:4-6, Malachi 3:6, Eccli. 3:18, and James 1:17.
TheFateofFaith 2 years ago
On Daniel 9:14 it speaks of Messiah not God. You say that according to the verse the son of man is to be worshiped. Did God knows this? Because God says Numbers 23:19, by the way God says in the verse He is not a man that he should lie nor the son of man. Jesus said that he is the son of man. WOW did Jesus also lie see John 7: 7-10 secretly. In Mark 10: 28-30 Jesus told the disciples that they would be rich. How truthful was he?
TheFateofFaith 2 years ago
If you wish to debate me, I will defer to any rules and conditions you desire. Contact me via the computer and i will give you a number you can contact me at. Lets get it done. On John 1:1, that was answered see vid. Please read Philo Alexandrius, who predates John by about 150 years. You will see John 1:1 in Philo's text 150 years before John. Philo is the father of your religion. Whos influence permeates the new testament, specifically Paul, the so called John, and the writer of Hebrews.
TheFateofFaith 2 years ago
Which has not been met historically or presently by any church or individual. So you are forced to resort to imaginative literary contortionism of scripture. And the attempts of Paul to greco philosophically reason that Jesus is God. Coupled with the hearsay and uncorroborative statements of an unidentified write. You wishfully call John. I could use hundred of verses to prove my point. But the computer is not my medium. I prefer face to face.
TheFateofFaith 2 years ago
Pro-locos you base your salvation on Jesus being God, while Jesus' belief and teachings testify boldly against you. The burden of proof is not on me. I believe as Jesus, Muhammad SAW, and the prophets believe, which are firmly grounded in the direct teachings of God himself. The burden of proof is completely on you. You must prove that Jesus is God. Not just to me but to Jesus himself, whos teachings and beliefs stand firmly and clearly against you. A heavy burden indeed.
TheFateofFaith 2 years ago
Dan. 7:9-14 the Son of Man is to be obeyed (in New Translation Bible) to be served (KJV) not to be worshiped.
sumawiganda 2 years ago
pro-locos. dan 7; 9-14 was answerd watch the vid.prolocos should we also worship daniel refer to book of dan.2;46-49 did the god fearing danniel stop the king from worshipping at his feet no he did not why pro-locos.should we then also worship saul read 1 sam.24;7-9 david bowed and prostrated befoe saul and the god fearing saul did not stop david why pro-locos.more examples 2. sam. 14;4,2. sam. 14;22 .does the pope stop any body from prostrating at his feet no why pro-locos does dali lama no
TheFateofFaith 2 years ago