Arguing Through a 'Messy' Bible - David Plotz

[mutch311]

t pas drole

[caveatemp]

So we either believe there is no God of the Bible and there are hideous evils in the world or we believe in God and the fall and the evils we are the catalyst for. What's the problem brainiac?

[andymission]

Mother Creator knows you.

[Genkakuzai]

I would like to see how many people would still uphold their belief that Christianity is Mythology after witnessing a miracle in their own lives... Don't worry, sooner or later everyone will face a situation when they need a higher calling. Then they'll realize their ignorance and learn to accept that there is truth in God, and applications found in the Bible. The Bible is just poorly represented in modern culture, with all this self-centered, money focused deceit found in church. YAHUAH BLESS.

[PossessDismiss]

@Genkakuzai Couldn't we ascribe the miracle to Allah, Krishna, Zeus, or Diana? A miracle wouldn't prove Christianity to be true nor would a transcendent experience. Christianity isn't the only religion to claim their God(s) does such things, not the first either. I haven't heard a persuasive argument for why such life altering experiences should be attributed to one religion and not another, or to any religion for that matter.

[Genkakuzai]

@PossessDismiss You can ascribe whatever you want to whoever you want. I never said anything about Yahuah or Christianity being the absolute truth. However, I do believe the Bible has many useful purposes. Whether that stems from the source, creator, etc. I do no know. Like anyone else, I know nothing. Only what culture, society, etc. has given me. Thus, I make do with what I am handed knowing it has stemmed from the beginning him/herself. Contradictory I am, indeed.

[Rockster969]

@Genkakuzai So you wish for bad things to happen to athiests in order for them to accept your disgusting and immoral buy-bull?

Applications in the buy-bull?

Go on, I'm all eyes? Maybe a goat herder rape kit?

[Genkakuzai]

@Rockster969 No, as a matter of fact I'm more humanistic than my comment reflects. You see, I find it extremely ignorant for people to discredit God or a Goddess for that matter simply because of Bible Verses or anything else. My point is, there is more to life than mere flesh and this short while on Earth.

[Hufflewaffle]

Yes its mythology and the common ground it shares with other mythological narratives reveals truths - not in the content itself but in its deeper metaphorical reading - and not about 'god' etc. but about US as conscious human beings. Myths are collective and shared dreams. They were conjured up by us while we were not awake. They should be read as dreams - not as prose, but as poetry of the unconscious human imagination. Anyone who takes them literally has got some difficult explaining to do.

[Genkakuzai]

@Hufflewaffle I like your style sonny, depth indeed... depth indeed. However, I'm still a firm in faith... Even if I'm just a product of societal values and cultural norms... Muwhahahahaaaa!

[longboardsrule321]

David Plotz in the Vid. How are you? So youre Jewish and don't agree with how God runs stuff. Lots of people feel that way. You say you could do a better job getting his children ready for eternity. You show your kids that Adam was a snake not protecting his wife from the serpent when he could have. Kind of like eat it Eve and let's see if you die. Yet the Bible says we are like Adam, we can't handle power. Bare in mind God is getting his children ready for heaven. Never a good dictator

[longboardsrule321]

@longboardsrule321 Was there ever a good dictator? God told us all that we are no good becuase we fail with his standards. Remember the end of the story, He wants us with him in Heaven. He like a dad with a bad kid is going to do some hard lessons, but he is going to send his son to pay our penalty that Adam and we would have done and have. God on the cross, for his bad kids, showed us we count, as he was totured and killed. But gee wizz God why smite everyone? Answer comming.

[oombuddah]

3) Nouman Ali Khan Divine speech part 1

That's all I'm asking you to do.

Then type in Mathematical miracles of the Qur'an - Shabir Ally.

The gospels and N.T history was written mostly by followers of Paul, everyhting is from Paul and his gospel is about Jesus rising from the dead. This doesn't appear so.

Jews-Your message is just to the Jews, the muslim message is for mankind, including Israel. God is the God of the worlds, not just the God of Israel-the covenant was just establised there

[oombuddah]

and at this time, arab linguists were at the peak of their language, they used to boast constantly about this and they were the best of the best - agreed by ALL scholars, muslim and non-muslim.

But the Qur'an de-scoped the Arabic language.

I want you to look at these links in the correct order, go on, test yourself:

1) "The Deen Show: Is the Qur'an miraculous Nouman Ali Khan"

2) The literary and linguistic miracle of the Qur'an Hamza Andreas Tzortzis - lecture at Oxford University.

[oombuddah]

yes that's right, it's not subjective.

It is authored in such a way that mankind for the past 1400 years have not been able to even create 3 lines of the same style, the Qur'an has given this as a challenge to all people, with the help of anything, even with the help of spirits - good or evil spirits, trying to create 3-10 lines like it, but no one has been able to do it. So many people have tried, they have all failed for the past 1400 years!

Muhammad pbuh was born into Arabia in 7th century

[oombuddah]

If there are idoltary by prophets, adultery, incest, terrible fatherhood by David pbuh, suicide attacks, innocent murderings, tree killing, rape, huge, major historical blunders, mathematical contradictions and scientific blunders, why why why believe in the theological ideas regarding the bible?

Here is where Islam comes in, the Qur'an claims to correct the corruptions in the bible, and I'm telling you, it did it in style!

The Qur'an has an objective literary and linguistic miracle to it.

[oombuddah]

3:26 - Muslims have been claiming for around 1400 years now that the people of the bible corrupted the bible.

For example, would God really portray the message of Israel and its relation to Judah in a way in a pornographic way, whereby women lust after men with huge penises, the size of donkeys and the emission of stallions, and would God talk about a tasty vagina like in Song of Solomon?

No! These are the scribes who are perverting the true faith.

[oombuddah]

Christ dying for the sins of mankind?

How unjust is that?

God is demanding a payment no matter what, this blood thirsty God must be satisfied by someone's death.

If God goes and get's a death out of it, then there is no forgiveness, because the price was paid to appease God's anger.

This goes against the story of the prodigal son and the Lord's prayer that says "Forgive our sins just as we forgive those who sin against us" - Without a price needed - if the price is needed, they pay for it.

[VarialProductions]

I think the mistake he makes is not coming to the rational conclusion. "There is no god"

He states it quite clearly. He isn't willing to accept that conclusion because its unsettling for him.

[AAAAkuuuu]

You're an Edomite David... ofcourse you fight the word.

[TheForwardGaze]

The Lord works in mysterious ways. The Gnostics had it right!

If Jewish people argue and can't agree on anything, then how do you explain the international Jewish conspiracy to conquer the world? Could it be that there isn't one?

[Oblivinati]

The last thing i'm going to say is that if someone believes that death is our last stop and we just go away into oblivion. There would literally be no point in our continued existance. Correct me if i'm wrong but Happiness and joy would also count for nothing. In fact since we go through more struggles than having good times on this planet so it would make sense to just give up as our human existance means nothing anyway we die eventually. Why have kids who will just eventually die? God loves us

[VarialProductions]

because we have no choice.. we are wired to have a natural drive to live. it doesn't matter if our existence sucks, we are animals with genes and thats the brute fact.

The good news is that we can change that with technology and science.

[Esteelauders]

I would rather listen to what God says than him (:

[DJAnihilist]

I think a cursory reading of the Bible will leave anyone with impressions that are not in line with the narrative itself. The reason for the flood is given in the text. The reason for the destruction of the families of the men who conspired against Daniel is also given in the text. Reading, and not brushing over the seemingly insignificant details, will clear up these "problems". The serpent questioned God's motivations in Gen. 3:4-5, although the text shows His mercy in relenting from judgment.

[DJAnihilist]

Instead of killing Adam on the day he sinned, he killed an animal in his place. Instead of allowing Cain to be slain by anyone who finds him, He places a mark on him that would keep him from being slain. Instead of completely annihilating humanity, he saved Noah & his family And established civil authority (in the form of capital punishment) so that man could judge for himself. Man, however, failed in that regard as well. Is God still unjustified in judging sin after relenting for so long?

[x0x0Paul0x0x]

and does the boogy man threaten to get us if we don't eat out carrots and peas? I've never seen the boogy man and I'm sure he must be waitng under my bed to get me tonight cause I don't believe in him. I can't prove or disprove the boogy man exists, so had I better have "Faith" that he's real just to be on the safe side and convince myself that in believing, I'm sure not to be damned by the boogy man?

[BayerLexan]

Have you seen the movie, "Mr. Boogedy"?

That movie scarred the shit out of me as a kid. Damn, still makes me nervous thinking about it.

[Oblivinati]

Maybe you should try to find the Boogy Man's Boogble. It's like the Bible that shows exactly why you should believe and gives you hope and promises out of this world. ;p

[x0x0Paul0x0x]

The merciful & all loving god who supposedly created all life and the universe must be a perverse & sadistic S.O.B. Your bible preaches 1 thing and your god practices another by allowing all suffering to the innocents on this earth. Then, uses fear to keep you in line & continue the suffering. And the believers say god is real cause the bible says so! Nowhere has your god published a book or presented himself for all to see & know. It's fear of human immortality that keep believers, believing.

[Oblivinati]

A perfect loving God would give his children free will. Even a human father on earth wants his children to have freedom of choice. Free will allows us to do whatever we desire, and unfortunately for most people it's causing pain. It has nothing to do wtih fear. We are saved from our evil by accepting Jesus as our savior. We don't make it to heaven because of how good we try to be, only because Jesus saved us. Don't blame God for what we do with free will. He doesn't want prisoners for children

[x0x0Paul0x0x]

I don't blame your god for anything, simply cause I don't believe your god exists in the first place. I've yet to see any proof his existence is real. As for free choice, and man choosing to cause suffering; I agree, man does that. However, how does your god justify innocent people being wiped out by natural disasters, & thousands of children dying of hunger and aids. The list goes on and on. Your god isn't realistic. It makes some feel safe and gives false hope that they will live after death.

[x0x0Paul0x0x]

As well, if your god is so almighty & knowing, then he would have created the perfect man.........end of argument

[Oblivinati]

Perfect as in, no free will? A man who has no other choice but to love his creator? I'm sure God does not have an interest in robots that love him. Now it's his job to let us live our lives and have mercy on us even though we are evil.

[x0x0Paul0x0x]

And so, you admit that your perfect god creates imperfection. Wow!!!

[Oblivinati]

There must be some confusion. I didn't say God is not perfect. I said he gave his creation free will to love him or not. Why would God create a bunch of perfect robots that are forced to love him? that's like making a girl love you because you will kill her if she doesn't.

[migo53333]

@Oblivinati no, actually its like making a girl love you because you will burn and torture her for eternity in hell if she doesnt........

[Oblivinati]

The things you see happening on this earth that are of death/chaos/corruption are a result of separation of God. Had we not chosen to live apart from him then he would be fellowshipping here with us. Besides that, let's pretend you are right, your goal is to take away peoples hope and happiness? You wouldn't have anything better to offer them than blackout death after we pass away so why do you care either way.

[x0x0Paul0x0x]

I really could care less, except I get tired of the same old argument for the existence of your god, based on faith and no tangible proof. I don't say he doesn't exist. I say, I don't believe without the proof. If it gives you comfort to follow blindly, so be it. Many/most believers who profess their love and devotion to god, are the same people who trash their neighbor, ignore the homeless and start and fight wars, all in the name of god & greed. Hypocrites, all of them.

[Oblivinati]

Whatever belief you have of how we were created is also based off faith, trust me. You don't have any proof of them happening so it would exclude you from having the right to say i am wrong.

[x0x0Paul0x0x]

Again, the burden of proof in your god's existence is on you. You make the claim he is real! So where's your proof to substantiate that. Just because someone told you it's all true, doesn't make it true without evidence of proof. Otherwise, we can all make claim the tooth fairy, easter bunny & santa claus are real.

[Oblivinati]

My proof is the Holy Bible, and the personal revelation God has given to me. He didn't leave a piece of documentation to submit as proof though sorry. The Bible is really all the proof you need and the prophecies completed in it. There is archeological evidence that the old testament was written before Jesus walked the earth. DNA, intelligent design, the universe is all proof that an all powerful God exists. Nature cannot generate linguistic laws which DNA follow.

[x0x0Paul0x0x]

If all you have to submit for argument is the bible and faith, then you are the lost one, not I. As for me promoting fear of death and lost! I never once professed that. In fact, death is just the natural order of things in all life forms. Plants, animals, etc. And I'm certainly not lost lost. By the way, your bible is made up of selected people who only understood the world by the context in which they understood. Unexplained events of no understanding is always attributed to your god.---------

[Oblivinati]

The crazy thing is the people back then didn't understand as much about the world as we do now, yet the Bible makes many declarations about science accurately. It explains that every star in the sky is unique (what if they were wrong? they wern't) It explains how the world is circular and that it was hung on nothing (gravity) It also mentions how the wind system works going from the south back up to the north returning on a circuit. I could go on, but you would probably just call it lucky guess

[x0x0Paul0x0x]

Well, if you really want facts on creation of mankind which far out dates your bible, then look at, and research the historical records of the Sumerians. In fact, the bible is a later updated and shortened version of events explained more in depth by the Sumerians. Sumerian tablets record how mankind was genetically engineered by a race of giant people from another planet, called the Annunaki. They used DNA to breed with neanderthal creatures already here, and through trial and error over time-

[x0x0Paul0x0x]

-, were able to create a slave race to serve them in earthly toils to mine earths resources. The Annunaki laid down rules, (commandments) for mankind to live by. Most of all, to serve the Annunaki creators and to not seek out knowledge for themselves. This occurred thousands of years before the Sumerians, who themselves were 6500 years ago in existence. And the Sumerian of their time lived among surviving later generations of the Annunaki. Through knowledge gained by mankind, and through ----

[x0x0Paul0x0x]

------political struggle among the surviving Annunaki during Sumerian times, wars and battles were fought. The Annunaki left, promising to return at some later time. The last surviving race of giants were from the family of Goliath which consisted of 5 giant brothers. You can check your research into these facts on the Sumerians by googling Zacharia Sitchin either here or the web. You will get other references from that starting point which confirm. Regardless of truth in anything------

[x0x0Paul0x0x]

------after reading all the info on the Sumerians explanation of creation of mankind, it is clear that the bible is a much later collection of writings which depict a much shorter version of the detailed historical records of the Sumerians. Sumerians even describe in detail, "the great deluge", (Noahs Flood). So if you're rooted in belief from your bible, you should go to where the bible originated from, thousands of years earlier.

[Oblivinati]

I talk to people about my beliefs because i want them to live free of fear and worry, you talk to people about your beliefs because you want them to feel lost, insecure and fear death. Jesus Christ is Lord and we all can have freedom and salvation through him. Seek him and you will have all the proof that you need :)

[x0x0Paul0x0x]

Okay. Try this one on for size. If your so called "biblical christain god" exists and wants us all to follow and worship him in all his mighty glory, then all he needs to do is to make himself appear on a permanent basis to everyone so that we would all know him to be real. However, your christian god wants us to have faith in what he doesn't show us and creates the fear that if we don't believe, then we all suffer the perils of eternal damnation in the fire of hell. Is there a boogy man as well

[loftyblond]

Silly. Of course there is morality, but it comes from within humans. Empathy is the basis of morality, so unless you're brain damaged, you got it.

[UnluckyGambler]

precisely, loftyblond.

[UnluckyGambler]

objectively, there is no right nor wrong, morality does not exist.

[TurkishPoltergeist69]

But consequence undoubtedly does!

[UnluckyGambler]

turkish, cause and effect. empathy and the knowledge of cause and effect make up morality.

[TurkishPoltergeist69]

I wholeheartedly agree! The things you mentioned I believe also make up logic to!

[AspireHigherStudios]

Ok, look, the Old Testament God is the same as the New Testament God. He said what he wanted to do, and what the punishment was for not doing it. People didn't do it. The punishment came.

Arguing that God did immoral things presupposes that there is a morality. Who makes that morality? David Plotz, in your mind you make right and wrong. That is wrong.

[superfisto]

So, is the messiness of the Bible is evidence for God or evidence that this religion is man-made?

[holyhell5050]

I'm inclined to back the latter... why are the only evidences for God in forms which _can_ be fabricated by man - or have since been explained? (Islamic meteorite *cough*)

[thunderpants10]

Can't forgive god for his actions?

How about next vid get someone who can't seem to forgive Lord Voldemort for trying to kill Harry Potter

[kalimul]

@thunderpants10

Thanks you for bringing that issue up. Voldemort....that motherfucker.

[k166a]

"This explains why Jews are the way we are..."

Unrepentant?

[GreenDesert]

*yawn* What is a boring talk on a story book doing on FORA? Let's focus on more important things like nuclear war, terrorism, politics, and economic collapse.

[gsg831]

except hes talking about a religion that currently holds in its possetion 200 nukes and likes to war with its neighbors...Israel.

[tuttt99]

It's called "Self defense", moron.

[gsg831]

The last Gaza war was not self defense. Israel started the war prior to the palestinian volleys of rockets. Moron.

[kmcl11]

hate jews?

[gsg831]

o shut up with that bs. What do you base that on? Did i say anything anti semetic? Or did i state facts and the typical zionist tactic of dodge the issue and get to racism pops out. I should change my name to IDONTHATEJEWS maybe morons like you would stop with the dumb arguements.

[eirefrance]

While I'm not going to call you a racist, automatically bringing up Israel just because this guy is talking about his personal experience with Judaism is a slippery slope. It, at the very least, shows that you have an a priori connection in your mind between all Jews and Israel's action. I wouldn't blame an individual Jew for calling you a racist.

[gsg831]

Ok i never equat jew with israeli or zionist. I equated Israel with the speech becaues someone else commented that this was boring, unimportant and that we should focus on nuclear war.i was mearly stating that the "jewish state" currently holds 200 nukes and it dose have a place on fora and any non secular state with nukes is not stable because they base their decisions on scripture rather than rational thought. Jews need to understand criticism of israel is not criticism of jews.

[eirefrance]

I agree that criticism of Israel is not criticism of Jews and I agree that some Jews either are or pretend to be unable to make that distinction. But you're the one who brought up Israel when this video has absolutely nothing to do with Israel, the Middle East, war, Zionism or Jewish nationalism. You're the one who made the connection that GreenDesert wasn't referring to. You can't blame any individual Jew for reading that and concluding that you can't make that distinction either.

[lelyn1234]

I thought this was thought provoking and articulate. History does seem like a puppet in the hands of an inscrutable God.

[sugarpuddin88]

Ironically, if you consider the Bible prose, rather than poetry, you miss the intended message!

[franksvenatra]

The message? What would that be? God's a dick. Fear him.

[sugarpuddin88]

frank

I think Job's god is a great example of mans every pathological state rolled up into one deity!

[EvolvedAtheist]

Face it, there is no god. If I could prove it, I would. Obviously, one cannot disprove a non-existence, but there is absolutely no reason to give credit to anything that has so clearly been invented by humans. We cannot disprove the characters in books that honestly admit to being "fiction" either, but this does not mean that we do not *know* that they are inventions. Knowledge is justified true belief - we are justified in believing that inventions, such as dieties, *are* inventions.

[WhyNotTruth]

You cannot say "there is no god" unless you can prove it.

[EvolvedAtheist]

Yes, I can *say* it, and I did.

You cannot assert that there is a god unless you can prove it. The burden of proof is with the claimant. Apologetic arguments attempt "proof", but they all fail. You can only *prove* existence by demonstrating it, and not by merely claiming it. It remains unproven even though claimants have repeated it over and over and over ad nauseam for 3,000 years.

Claiming deities is not "truth".

[WhyNotTruth]

EvolvedAthiest, how can you prove there is no God? Wouldn't you have to demonstrate that the concept of God is impossible? There are plenty of unknown things that exist. Things we simply don't have the technology to prove. Not just god, plenty of stuff. Not being able to prove something doesn't mean that it does not exist.

[EvolvedAtheist]

I don't need to prove there's no God. The burden of proof is always with the claimant, so theists must prove that God exists.

It is logically impossible to prove that a non-existence does not exist. One should *not* assume that something exists simply because disproof is impossible. To claim existence on such grounds is a fallacious argumentum ad ignorantiam.

The point is that there should be incontrovertible evidence of something potent enough to do all that is claimed for deities.

[WhyNotTruth]

Where did you get all that from? Am I claiming that something is proven, because it cannot be dis-proven? No.

It seems you've made the same point, you can't prove something does not exist. When have I said anything to the contrary?

Point #2 Why "should" there ever be incontrovertible evidence of something that has not been proven?

Just because someone has great power doesn't mean that they must display it in order to prove their existence. It doesn't help the case, but it doesn't prove anything.

[EvolvedAtheist]

You did not claim that *directly*. It is simply that that is the fallacy on which most theistic arguments ... demands for proof of the non-existence of deities ... rest.

There *should* be incontrovertible evidence of an existence for which so much is claimed.

Your final sentence demonstrates that you are indeed trying to resort to argumentum ad ignorantiam ... right after you denied using it. Why did you fall into that fallacious trap? You have no choice but to repeat the excuses.

[WhyNotTruth]

You love to not answer my questions don't you?

Why "should" there ever be incontrovertible evidence of something that has not been proven?

[WhyNotTruth]

There *should* be incontrovertible evidence of a god... Well what if there wasn't but god really did exist after all?

Clearly you are resorting to argumentum ad ignorantiam, this is about proof not opinion. Who says there "should" be evidence of god? You? What a reliable and scientific source you have found to back up your arguments.

[TheWarriorsOutpost]

I gotta agree with WhyNotTruth on this one. You claim he is using argumentum ad ignorantiam, but you are wrong. He hasnt tried to prove anything. You are only making the assumption that he is.

For anyone observing at the argument objectively, EvolvedAtheist is the one using argumentum ad ignorantiam.

Just because he says something cannot be proven doesnt mean he is trying to prove something else. Get it?

[EvolvedAtheist]

Read what he said again. Look at his argument and not his actual words.

[sugarpuddin88]

I agree you can't prove or disprove god

However, due to consistent written contradictions, hypocrisies & tons of sociopathic behavior, it is simple to prove the Bible to be false!

[EvolvedAtheist]

Sure, they are all falsified and refuted.

[WhyNotTruth]

That is how it seems to be. Unless god is just some uberpowerful dude on a huge power trip and he is basically drunk half the time.

[EvolvedAtheist]

He's a bad drunk!

[Bobbiethejean]

The simple answer is that Yahweh was a monster. He murdered 42 children for making fun of a prophet's bald head. He flooded the entire planet, killing blameless animals, children, and pregnant women. He commanded that believers rip out the fetuses of nonbelievers and dash them upon the rocks. He created a place of eternal torture. He espoused slavery and the subservience of women.

In short, Yahweh was a cunting beast. Period. End of story.

[franksvenatra]

Must remember to apply the phrase 'cunting beast' more often in everyday conversation :)

[ChuckyHammer]

Now the answer ... is plain, but it is so unpalatable that most men will not face it. There is no reason for life and life has no meaning.

-- Somerset Maugham

To argue over the Hebrew bible is a waste of time period. Like arguing over a spiderman comic.

[franksvenatra]

Well I agree that it's a load of baloney but at the same time, it can explain a lot of attitudes that people still hold today. So long as it's studied objectively. I think very few people genuinely, in their heart of hearts, believe in God. Most religious people are deliberately fool themselves. As your quote said, the truth is 'unpalatable' to most.

[ChuckyHammer]

I think way too many people believe at some level in god, spirits, meta-physics, and are unable to believe in no god, and death being the end. To study the effects of religion and its texts is important, but to study these same texts to help to lead a better life is a waste of time. 9 out of 10 children could l do a better job then the 10 commandments on 10 rules to lead your life. Then there is the koran the book of hate, which nothing has to be said about.

[franksvenatra]

Yup.

[blasphimus]

Well said. I've noticed that once people believe one thing they pile it up and make a huge mental mess. Spirits -> souls -> afterlife -> need to do something to get to afterlife -> religious text ->"creator" of text. conclusion = god must exist.

Once people build up on bad ideas then they have a more serious need to believe in all of their false beliefs because if one is broken then it all sort of crashes down.

[Vynjira]

@ChuckyHammer The key difference being the Spider-man comic is written better.

[gilraen789]

My background is Christian but I also find the Bible including the New Testament to be messy and cruel. I feel that my choices are to say that the text displays a primitive understanding of God or to say that religion itself derives from a primitive impulse to make the world comprehensible. I struggled for years to maintain a level of faith in spite of the textual difficulties. And yet I still feel a strong identity with Christianity - like Plotz with Judaism.

[Sardonac]

The greatest legitimation crisis ever: How do you follow one that believes "do as I say, not as I do."

[BabetteBombshell]

The Bible is mythology. Its no different than reading greek mythology, with the exception that 90% of the people around you still choose to believe this christian mythology. Its popular because it is the McDonalds of spiritual paths. Quickly ask Jesus into your heart as a one time quick fix. No more work, study or reading is required. All you need do is parrot a very simple ideology and you're part of the heaven club.

[billybobby800]

yeah i know really....its funny though the "christian god" is really just a combination of greek gods........temper issues yet, he gives you life......pfft

[longboardsrule321]

@BabetteBombshell If Myth why are there no contradictions? How about the prophisies of Jesus's first comming?

Try to just pic one contradiction or one prophecy you have a prob with. If you rattel a whole bunch then I will pick your first one to refute, God help me.

[BabetteBombshell]

@longboardsrule321 Its mythology just like all the prechristian versions of the Christ story are myths. Horus (the Egyptian Son God) was born to the virgin Isis on Dec 25th 3000BC. It was marked by a star in the east. 3 kings adorned him. He had 12 disciples, performed miracles (walking on water) was crucified, buried for 3 days & resurrected. Here are more prechristian gods that also have the same christ-like story... Attis, Krishna, Dionysus, Mithra... I could go on & on listing predecessors.

[BabetteBombshell]

@longboardsrule321 "If Myth why are there no contradictions?"

The Bible is riddled with them. Not just that, it plagiarize its self. Joseph's life in the old testament is nothing more than a prototype for Christ, as Horus was. Joseph was born of a miracle, of 12 brothers, was sold for 20 pieces of silver, Judah sells out Joseph. Jesus was a miracle birth, had 12 disciples, was sold for 30 pieces of silver, Judas betrayed Jesus. Jesus begins his work at 30 as did Joseph. Its the same story & myth

[Aaberg123]

I guess I need to see the entire talk. This is just too funny :P