Calorie Restriction MSNBC Story

[andresayz4545]

and by the way there is no research, AT ALL, that links in any way muscle building/loss and caloric intake except in extreme cases where the person is anorexic or bulemic in fact some underground research was done a while back where several men were given graded doses of testosterone to see how much it takes to build muscle, the guys on the high end doses gained 12 lbs of muscle in 8 weeks and only ate at weight maintenence.

[lazur1]

@andresayz4545 If a subject is fat , hormonal manipulation & / or exercise,(itself a form of HM), partitions calories from fat to muscle. Eventually there'll be no more fat to lose. At maintenance level, muscle then...maintains. If one's already lean, calories need to be increased to build muscle. Most successful CR'ers practice a mass-maintaining strength-training program, yet are still quite weak, judging by the weights they can be seen using on their promotional material..

[Stonewalljackson7]

@lazur1 they're not trying to be powerlifters, no need for great strength unless you're a gladiator, or stevedore.

[lazur1]

@Stonewalljackson7 Much more polite, thanks. Indeed, strength isn't their primary goal. GOOD: Those that put strength & muscle above all else are often unhealthy. However, from what I've seen of well-publicized CR'ers & the -tiny- weights they use to 'strength'-train, they seem too weak to do work I consider commonplace. I'm neither gladiator nor stevedore, but I hope to be able to defend myself, & move furniture, if need be, so perhaps I'm a gladiator-stevedore after all :-) To each his own.

[andresayz4545]

He wasn't starved retards he was calorically restricted meaning he was given enough calories to mainting his weight without gaining, only fatass americans that think they need to be eating 3000 calories a day would call that starvation. I started CR 5 months ago, 50 pounds later my doctor calls it miraculous, all of my measurable health parameters have improved and I'm very resistant to getting sick and less stressed out over all.

[lazur1]

@andresayz4545 I've lost track of who "he" is in this thread, but you can maintain your weight w/any caloric load, depending on the weight you wish to maintain! It's not a term interchangeable with CR. You can maintain semi-starvation or morbid obesity. You seem happy with your own status, & that's great. What's your current height and weight ? What weight to plan to maintain?

[andresayz4545]

@lazur1 I'm talking about the rhesus monkey on which the experiment was done, and I disagree with the comment on being able to maintain weight on any caloric load, you can eat differing amounts of food that will either cause you to gain, lose or maintain weight and it al revolves around how many calories you burn in a day, if you're burning 1800 calories a day and eating 2500 you wil not maintain your present weight and if you can I want you to do it and show me.

[lazur1]

@andresayz4545 You can eat enough gain weight or lose weight but if you keep eating the same amount, it becomes a maintenance diet.

[andresayz4545]

@lazur1 I started out last christmas weighing 250 pounds, calculated my metabolic rate to be somwhere between 1700-2100 calories depending on activity level, I started eating 1200 calories a day and lifting weights, since christmas ive lost around 65 pounds gone from bench pressing 150 lbs for 1 rep to benching 210 lbs for 2 or 3 last I checked in that time so I'm definately not wasting away, currently I'm 5'9 185 lbs with 53 inch shoulders and 33 inch waist, I wish to reach and maintain 175 lbs

[lazur1]

@andresayz4545 Your goal of 175 @ 5'9" is realistic and healthy. The typical 'successful' CR'er at your height would weight about 120.

[andresayz4545]

@lazur1 and of course you can take it to the extreme and lose to the point of anorexia or gain to the point of obesity but thats not what I'm talking about here and neither were the scientists when they did this experiment, rather this is about cutting out the extra calories in your diet that are being allocated and stored as body fat, not starving ust eating only what you need, the reality is the vast majority of americans are overeating slightly all the time and by the time you hit 30 you can

[lazur1]

@andresayz4545 'Extreme' indeed: Also a matter subject to much variance. You are incorrect, this is not a mere fat loss diet, this is lower -total mass- diet.Those on it admit to being constantly hungry. It's only a maintenance diet if you are maintaining a very scrawy physique Those on are weaker than average, even with their their 'strength' training. In a very realistic sense, they -are- the 'extreme'.

[andresayz4545]

@lazur1 have gained quite a bit of weight since your teenage years which happens to a lot of people who just could've cut back a little bit and saved themselves to trouble of having to cut way down in order to lose body fat, trust me I'm a former fat person to had tried every protien, low carb hormone manipulating bs diet there was and nothing worked until i started eating less calories than I was burning.

[lazur1]

@andresayz4545 It's always about eating less than you're burning. Other methods, when they work, work because they enable compliance, either by satisfying the appetite w/less calories, or inspiring higher activity levels. Those who think this means they can eat like pigs, don't lose weight. CR isn't in reference to the literal premise: It's the extreme faction. Yes of course, you're a calorie restrictor, but they are Calorie Restrictors.There -is- a difference.

[andresayz4545]

@lazur1 I get that there is a difference, the dissonance here is in the examples given, the rhesus monkeys were fed as such; 1 group eating whatever it pleased, and 1 group eating 30% less than that which is about at metabolic requirment/weight/mass maintenence for them, the monkeys that were depicted in this clip are perfectly healthy, more healthy than their non restricted brethren, the people however seem to have taken it to an anorexic extreme yes and they are bad examples of this lifestyle.

[vooooom]

I think that the truth about calorie restriction is that it is not low calories but low insulin that will extend life.

[andresayz4545]

@vooooom that's actually what it's all about, insulin and growth hormone exist antagonistically in your body, that is when insulin is high GH is low, and having low insulin levels means having high GH levels which almost every study has indicated will make you healthier, more robust, look better and live longer, which is why rich people pay out the wazzoo to get the synthetic version injected into themselves.

[lazur1]

"More years tacked on at the end.": Not good. More years tacked on a healthy active middle age: Good. Animals are forced to restrict, it's essentially "healthy" torture. To be obsessive enough to torture one's self for a theoretical few years of additional torture requires an obsessive personality w/anorexic aspects of body image & ego gratifiction.

[matthewlake182]

Calorie Restriction doesn't just tack on years at the end, it extends the period of youthful and middle age... so when the animals are old they tend to just drop dead one day without a long period of ill health. 40% of the longest surviving CR animals have no real organ pathology. There was one study which wasn't a true anti aging study but the monkeys were restricted by 30% and lived 30% longer. They gained a human equivalent of 21 extra years living to what would be 96 human years.

[lazur1]

I understand. I referred to the commentator's statement. The experiments compare caged animals, animals CRed for life. (Wild rats vs CR rats, wild rats were more muscular,stronger,more agile & better at solving puzzles.) If you CR kids after weaning, torture them for life, they live to 96? There are better ways to exceed 75. Starting CR@maturity: A different experiment, & CR @ 50 (when more adults begin getting interested in such things), will yield negligable results, if they can stand it.

[matthewlake182]

The oldest Rhesus monkey ever recorded died at 43 years of age and he was CR'd. He would have been 129 years in human years. Name was C58

[lazur1]

Starved for 43 years. I bet he thanked his captors for every extra minute of life.

[10aces]

How easy is it to integrate caloric restriction with regular exercise regimens?

[lazur1]

If you work out to be strong and muscular you can forget it on CR. These people "lift weights" with children's dumbells in a departe effort tp keep even a fraction of the muscle mass & strength they once had naturally. Endurance/aerobic/cardio training has to be cut way back, because it would require replentishing calories burned, thus goinh over the allowed amount.

[Stonewalljackson7]

@lazur1 wrong retard

[lazur1]

@Stonewalljackson7 "Wrong retard". Well, you're painfully pretty clear where you stand on whether I'm right or "wrong". And your evaluation of my intelligence is also quite plain. Aside from that, what are you talking about?