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From: 1metallica1
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  • i think this was a horrible response. atheists were not the ones who came up with the idea for women's rights or abolition of slavery. in fact, both movements were largely linked to religion. atheists base all their moral beliefs off the current morals held by Christianity. sure, you can say that you guys just have an, "innate sense of morality" but the fact is the only reason you have these morals is because morality has been pounded into society by religion

  • @allstrbasebal73 You don't need religion to tell you that murder is wrong, it's a universally understood notion. You don't need christianity to understand the ethical difference between owning a slave and trading labour for monetary incentive. You say that "atheists base ALL THEIR MORAL BELIEFS off current morals held by Christianity," but the fact of the matter is that moral consciousness is derived from evolution. It's well understood that morality is a survival nessecity.

  • @guitarluk94 In order to maintain an environment not completely engulfed by apethetic chaos, it's vital to have AT THE VERY LEAST a minute sense of right and wrong. This notion is evident in every spiecies of life. In fact the only organism known for abstracting this principle is us, the human race. And which group of people is best know for breaking their own rules? RELIGOUS people. So ethics are not "pounded into society" they are subject to people and like people they too evolve

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  • I had to watch this 3 times it was that good... he is so well spoken.

    unless you're retarded morals are translated through your stomach... if you are about to steal your stomach will have butterflies... anything remotely dishonest your stomach will tell you... I wish I had a better command of the english language but let's be honest... religion is for primates... it warms my heart to watch the world wake up from history

  • @PoliticsStudent Yes, he DID say that. Society does not simply make morality objective. That's the appeal to popular belief fallacy. That's not to say some morals are subjective, but some have to be right or wrong regardless of individual or social opinion.

    And the Ted Bundy thing, I said that because it reveals just how irrational Dawkins really is. He sure likes to THINK he's rational, but he's a total fail when it comes to morality and philosophy.

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  • so if man cam from apes do we share the same dna as apes of today?

  • @kassop no we have 46 chromosomes while apes have 48.

  • @Rockrogash so if we evolved from apes dont you think we should have the same dna?

  • @kassop well first of all we didnt evolve from apes. the apes that you are referring to are more like cousins to us.

    like for example chimpansees have the same ancestors as we have while they are not directly our ancestors.

    second of all why should we have the same amount of chromosomes?

  • @Rockrogash Any evidence to back up your theory?

  • morality is innate,period

  • WHO THE FUCK IS RICHARD DAWKINS?  WAS HE THERE? DID HE SEE IT HAPPEN?YOU IDIOTS THAT FOLLOW THIS STUPID MANS THEORY.

  • @kassop lololololololololol

  • @kassop the theory he proposes has more backing than your skylord up there somewhere that isnt findable, or seeable, and barely even knowable to you religious folk.

  • @Denchanter357 i love that name skylord, thanks

  • @kassop you are very welcome. i think its fun. kind of similar to what zeus would be too, lightning bolts and all.

  • @Denchanter357 Do you even know the meaning of faith?

  • @kassop usually it means someone stops asking questions or seeking truth. thats what ive seen faith to mean much more than any definition has ever provided.

  • @kassop nah hes just thinking logically and following a path of thinking. i suspect you r a fundamental christ r u?

  • @Rockrogash no

  • @kassop kk what else then? n to your question "WAS HE THERE?" ... what do you mean with there?

  • "atheists cannot have a sense of morality" - why?

  • Kind to animals?

    I think Mr. Dawkins needs to see this video because that is utter bullshit:

    watch?v=nKmAI0ZpHfs

  • @truebeliever786 I think you've sort of missed the point of what he was saying.

  • @truebeliever786 This is what cherry-picking out of context is.

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  • The man who asked the question seems 2 b Muslim (Muslim name: Hamza), & in Islam the morals of Muslim includes: not starting a salute towards non-muslims, forcing non-muslim to pay money called Jizyah while they r humiliated (exactly the quran words), buying women as slaves and having sex with any number of them even if you were married (this is not adultery in Islam), and hate speech towards all non-musilms, using curse words when talking about non-muslims all the time, wat wonderful MORALS!!!

  • Wow. He raped the shit out of that question.

  • @RosesTimes

    Excellent display of Christian morality, thanks!

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  • @RosesTimes Oh you mean the blog entry where John Loftus also stated that: "But Sam's arguments were clearly better even if he didn't answer everything Bill said, by far. So Sam did what any debater against Craig should do, put out on the table some serious objections for Christians who would never read his books."?

    Craig is a good debater. That does *not* mean that his arguments hold any water.

  • atheism is evil

  • Professor dawkins OWNED him. Praise the lord. Praise Richard dwakins.

  • i laughed out loud at the chris tucker ending!!!! good job

  • Love how he takes off his glasses like shits gonna go down

  • Morality is not based on religion. But religion should be based on morality, wich is not by the way.

  • All the things Richard is talking about is part of the old covenant with Moses Jesus forgives he wasn't sent to condemn the world.

  • @Treflip1029

    Is that how apologists try to skirt around the laws the Christian god as set down in the bible? The "old covenant" argument is nonsense, please don't ever use it again as you will get laughed at for such a high level of intellectual dishonesty.

  • @TheTexanCanadian thats not dishonesty thats why jesus diobeyed the law of not working on the sabbath its not dishonesty because thats the argument some evolutionist try to make

  • @Treflip1029

    Matthew 5:18, KJV

    "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."

  • @TheTexanCanadi It was fullfilled with Christ death friend

  • @Treflip1029

    1) Jesus Christ is not dead according to Christian mythology, he's the "living god."

    2) There are no valid prophecies which can be attributed to Jesus Christ

    3) Original sin has been disproven, so there's nothing that we need to be saved from by Jesus.

  • @TheTexanCanadian

    1) Sorry for not saying he's living but thats kind of obvious

    Luke; 22:20 This is the covenant I will establish with the people of Israel after that time, declares the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts I will be their God, and they will be my people

    2) Stay on topic ill debate that with you when im done with this that

  • @TheTexanCanadian 3) Do you really even understand original sin, I think few understand the true meaning. Since Adam sinned, he became imperfect and sinful, Adam passed that onto all of his offspring, everybody without exception. For as the Scriptures say that all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, Romans 3:23. Romans 5:12 says That is way, just as through one man sin entered the world and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they had all sinned.

  • @TheTexanCanadian Also give me a link to the website or book youve been reading to disprove original sin

  • @Treflip1029

    watch?v=dK3O6KYPmEw

  • @Treflip1029

    Cont'd.

    By the way, grouping people up into "evolutionists" is like a person who believes the world is flat calling the people who think the world is round "round-earthers."

  • @TheTexanCanadian same as when people classify creationist.

  • @Treflip1029 you do know that most preists and bishops believe in evolution, right?

  • @ColossusShade Most? maybe mircro evolution which is simply adaption can i have some proof ive been to several churchs in my life and havent met a pastor thats believes in "evolution"

  • @Treflip1029 most of the EDUCATED ones believe in evolution (and you don't put quotes around "evolution" when you're not quoting something, moron).

  • @ColossusShade no proof and an insult haha i shouldn't excpect much from someone who can't hold a mature conversation and and i was quoting your comment

  • I want to own that tie

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  • This is the best combination of scholarly debate and modern cinema.

  • I would really like to talk to one of those people who got such a brilliant answer to their theist questions and see if they have changed their mind in any way. It's a mystery to me how you can not change your mind after getting such an answer. I have a feeling most of them haven't tho.

  • what show is this from?

  • Professing themselves to be wise they became fools

  • Visit my channel for proof of God! :D

  • @delphos1223

    There is none.

  • If we stop and look at man's "intelligent and reasoned" morals, man doesn't want to keep them! Man wants to rebel, rebel from Gods laws and from so-called man-made morals too...

    There is no sitting on the fence, believe in a man-made religion (evolution) or believe in God. Doubting Thomas' won't be able to wriggle their way into heaven once they 'have proof'

  • @samharries100

    I don't know what drug you are taking but I want some. 

  • @samharries100 yeah, because when hes not creating the universe, gods writting scripture and dropping it at random across the middle east... every religion is man made... the only difference with evoultion is, its more recent and made by the smart part of mankind

  • @samharries100

    "man doesn't want to keep them! "

    What "man" are you referring to? The rising population of reasoned thinkers or the billions who are still trapped in religious delusions?

    "Man wants to rebel, rebel from Gods laws "

    Which god? Is it one that lives outside your imagination, and if so, can you demonstrate how?

    "believe in a man-made religion (evolution)"

    Have you ever heard of the scientific method, or do they not teach that in your sunday school class?

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  • @TheTexanCanadian im always in disbelief of how ignorant believers can be, im almost determined that they have never done a second of research on their own beliefs or an atheist

  • i love cherries.

  • i really admire dawkins and hitchens for having the patience to reason with these people....i am only 26 and i find myself too frustrated and short-tempered when talking with religious people

  • @BreakerNBGD Then don't talk to them.

  • @BreakerNBGD How is that, you say that as if you know 1000% your belief or following is right.

  • @DaFoxx28 i don't know that....science doesn't....science never claims anything with absolute certainty - instead it always leaves room for doubt and moreover invites fellow scientists to attempt to refute a proposed argument, a paradigm....however, as we are looking for the 'truth' we can disqualify things we are certain are false such as religion is....

  • @BreakerNBGD Oh and that's simply to disqualify "religion". Make sure to not confuse the two, there are very many "believers" that are not "religious". So yes, that one is simple. Religion is man made, is god? Perhaps, but we don't know for sure. We lack proof, but to many, there is plenty of proof. Example, does bigfoot exist? Many say hoax, no proof, dead body etc. Others say i have tons of proof, i saw one, smelled one, to that person that's all they need, to the others, it's not enough

  • @BreakerNBGD Some people have claimed to hear god,feel god, even many scientists the further they go down the rabbit hole feel there must be a god with new discoveries in dna and many other things. It's enough for some, others not. To me it's all about perception at the end of the day.

  • @DaFoxx28 precisely.i guess in the end it is a matter of leaning towards more probable (rather than absolutely certain) ideas....would you agree it is more probable there is no god and there are no faeries?

    i think the distinction you made between religion and god is very good.i absolutely cannot accept doctrines of existing religions..my common sense doesn't permit me to...i would be open though to hearing about a 'designer', however only if a physicist explained it to me, not a priest.

  • @BreakerNBGD Well many exceptional minds, (such as a professor of nanotechnology at MIT) believe in god, so there are many great minds out there who believe. To me, i think we will never know until the end, but one thing i do know, nobody 100% knows for sure here on this earth, no matter what they say, or how hard they try to convince anyone. Until somebody can show me 100% proof, i leave the door open in both directions, i have my opinions, but nothing more.

  • @DaFoxx28 They can be as intelligent as they like, but until they can provide some evidence for their claim, all their belief gets filed under bullshit.

  • @TomFynn Your opinion, nothing more, and as i've had to teach others, i'll teach you. Evidence is all about perception in many cases. To them, what evidence they have, is sufficient, to you, you disagree, but once again, that's you, that's them. Respect everyone, you get it back, be an arrogant angry atheist, then you get that back as well. At the end of the day, nobody knows 100% the answer, no matter how intelligent they try and make themselves sound, or talk down on others beliefs.

  • @DaFoxx28 "Evidence is all about perception" Bullshit. Evidence is that which is exactly *not* about perception. And if you want respect, you have to earn it like everybody else. Spouting bullshit won't cut it.

    Oh, and belief is to be certain of the existence of X without any hard evidence. There is no bigger bullshit and nothing more deserving of ridicule than that.

  • @TomFynn Don't bullshit yourself bullshitter.......Read what i said closely. Evidence is too about perception. For instance, detective decides based on what he feels is evidence enough to request a search warrant for an investigation, he goes and requests this from a judge and the judge says, no, what you have isn't even close. Shows nothing, you find more, ill grant it, but so far, it's pointless evidence. The detective goes, are you nuts? I have this, i have that, what else do you want?

  • @TomFynn What i'm saying is this, for many, experiences, research etc. has lead them to their beliefs. You can't tell that person that the conclusion they've came to based on this is inaccurate, that's simply your opinion. To them it's real, to you it's not. Once again, perception. You, you need God to land in Chicago and hold a ralley to believe. The next person just needs experiences in their life or DNA unanswered questions, or evolution unanswered questions etc as enough proof

  • @TomFynn Stop telling people how to think, atheist or theist. That's the problem with people like yourself, you can be atheist or theist, and you'd still be an arrogant asshole with your beliefs and feel anyone that doesn't see what you see or believe what you believe is an idiot. Doesn't work like that. Go talk to the many scientists that are xtians or believers, ask them "why" do they believe this way. Trust me, they won't just say "Bible says so", many have researched this for a long time

  • @DaFoxx28 Oh, look, more bullshit. And those scientists can say what they want, they certainly won't cite any evidence. For there is none.

    As for me,you can belive what you want. But until you cite at least one scrap of evidence, not just the tiresome god-of-gaps crap, I will call bullshit.

  • @TomFynn Right, just like you can say what you want. I like how you think it makes a difference you "call bullshit", umm so the bullshit fuck what? You're nobody, some guy on "the tube" spewin'. Do you think someone strong in their belief no matter what that may be cares about your "bullshit". Um, the answer is no. Sorry, I know you'd like to think they do, but they don't. I never stated what i believe, nor does it matter, but i do know i'm not some arrogant angry atheist, thinking people care

  • @DaFoxx28 "thinking people care" Yes, I know. And as such I very much care about calling bullshit bullshit. Otherwise people might actually believe in this shit. Apart from those that are "strong in their belief", meaning those that have become mental shut-ins. No help there.

  • @TomFynn Yeh ok, cause "Tommy" here calls "Dude that's bullshit man, bullshit" as his opinion on "The Tube" and at the bar over a few and at work trying to impress the female co-workers to show what a "rebel" he is. Yes, that will do it. People that are strong in their beliefs will go, ya know, that Tommy guy there says "Bullshit", so damnit, he must be right! I think ill follow what he follow, i mean afterall, he is very wealthy, and he is a "Tuber" and he skateboards very well, so.....

  • @TomFynn he MUST be right. Dude, if you believe that one son, I have a pickle farm in Idaho i'd like to sell you, it profits very very well. Your bullshit opinion, nothing more, and you can be arrogant in your bullshit ways thinking that you know the answer for 100% sure, and the only ones that will be impressed by that are weak minded and the man in the mirror, yourself.....They feel you are mental shut-ins, works both ways. Sorry Tommy boy, it's a game you'll never win, so move on, ok peace

  • @DaFoxx28 An impressive ability to string a lot of words together. But that's the only thing that's impressive.

  • @TomFynn Good, because you're not anybody that i think needs impressed, and im sure 99.999% of the rest of the world thinks the same. You keep your beliefs, let others keep theirs. You shit in the mornings, put on one pant leg at a time like everybody else. So i highly doubt you are qualified to tell others to think like others or you for that matter, and if they don't they are idiots. Ok now run along sparky.

  • @DaFoxx28 By the same token *you* shit in the morning put on one pant leg at a time like everybody else, your beliefs are *until you can provide evidence* bullshit. Keep them by all means. But never pretend that they are anything else but bullshit.

  • @TomFynn By the same token, you can't read..You're a typical angry assuming atheist. Go find where "I" said i believe in god. Go find it right now, smart man...That's your assignment, since guys like you, as soon as someone reminds you that not everybody thinks the same as you do, that you need to learn to agree to disagree with people as an "Adult". That your "beliefs" is not "law" as you think, since you cannot read and want to assume, go "prove" where i said i believe and am xtian

  • @TomFynn Oh and by the way, I find it really odd that such an intelligent 100% right scholar such as yourself would have such passion, energy and time to dedicate to "bullshit" as you call it....Isn't that odd? If you're 100% right, know you're right, if you're so highly intelligent, why the fuck are you here whining back and forth trying to "convince" anyone? That's like Trump concerned with a bum. I find that really odd you're such a puppet on a string for something you call "Bullshit".......

  • @DaFoxx28

    Um, no. In this case, the "bum" is the majority and runs the country. If religions didn't have any meaning beyond the personal, that would be one thing. But we have people making rules and passing laws and behaving in public in harmful ways based on religion. Trump would care about a bum if the bum were sitting in his office running or trying to run his company.

  • @mhatlie blah blah......organized religion and belief in a creator are 2 different things

  • @DaFoxx28

    - For better or for worse, much of the time religion and organized religion are closely connected. It is not the case for millions of believers that they are two different things. People organize around their beliefs and act accordingly. Not everyone, but enough.

    - Even individuals can and do act (vote, sign petitions, decide on political issues, etc.) without being organized. Religion influences those decisions.

  • @mhatlie You just said religion twice, i said organized religion and believing in a creator are 2 different things. Many believers do not like organized religion. None the less far more than "reglion" influence how people live or think or vote etc. Stop blaming "religion" on this worlds problems solely. There are bad muslms, bad christians and bad atheists.

  • @DaFoxx28

    Never have I blamed religion "solely." And there are plenty of good people who are religious. But overall, religion remains a problem.

  • @mhatlie "Overall", bad "people" remains a big problem. Ok have a good one.

  • @TomFynn I got a hunch tommy here is full of his on BULLSHIT, and just got BULLSHITTED : ), carry on, i'm ignoring now, you won't be able to find where i said im a xtian and a believer anyway. So you just made fool of yourself seeing things and making up things, typical..........Cya : )

  • @BreakerNBGD Many these days have a habit of taking opinions and turning those into facts and law, doesn't work like that.

  • @DaFoxx28 dawkins says he is 6,9 atheist on a scale of 7 (7 being absolutely atheist) because it is not scientific to assert with absolute certainty - nevertheless, as he also says, we can be quite certain faeries don't exist and neither do gods

  • @BreakerNBGD He doesn't know for 120% sure himself, that's why he says 6.9 leaving himself room. At the end of the day, even if it were 999.999% chance god does not exist, there is still that .001% that god does exist. Which means you cannot absolutely rule it out. I think it's pretty hard for anyone bound to 4 corners of a giant mudball to stand up and say they positively know fairies do not exist, or flying mules or a god for that matter, not within an infinite universe that we know nothing of

  • @BreakerNBGD haha i feel the same way

  • What about Christ?

  • “The chief distinction in the intellectual powers of the two sexes is shown by man attaining to a higher eminence, in whatever he takes up, than woman can attain - whether requiring deep thought, reason, or imagination, or merely the use of the senses” CHARLES DARWIN, The descent of Man and Selection in Relation to Sex. Orig. published in London 1871; this excerpt from the New York edition, 1879, pp 563-565. Cf. Women, the family, and Freedom, vol. 1, doc. 110, pp. 409-411

  • @ShawnSwander Indeed....all written in late 1800's. its now 2012, our morals have changed, and this is the point. if we humans were to adher to morals written in some old book, our civilisation wouldn't progress. luckly we have those who think on it alot, and try to reason for better morals.

    Ironically, i wouldn't be suprised if Darwin held those views due to his Christian upbringing....go figure.

  • @BurazSC2 Have our morals changed? You sure about that? .......

  • "A married man... is a poor slave, worse than a negro"~Charles Darwin The Autobiography of Charles Darwin p. 234 Charles Darwin the FATHER of your religion. Funny same word religion uses for God.

  • im just wondering if people ask him stupid questions just to hear him be awesome.

  • The "you got knocked the fuck out" at the end was too funny.

  • Why is every video with Dawkins only showing him speaking to an atheist group and answering easy questions? He never speaks of origins, radiometric dating, the geological column, and so on. These all have an impact on his field of genetics. This guy is a hack.

  • @ShawnSwander U wrong: watch?v=-8b3vhTO248, watch?v=wyZMgunli8w, watch?v=w-edtmeXZB4, watch?v=BQXnS9narng, watch?v=po0ZMfkSNxc, watch?v=2DcySbAt-l4, watch?v=Xe7yf9GJUfU, watch?v=6qk_HOWypz8

  • @TomFynn he is doing exactly what I said in the very first video so I am not checking the rest. Use quality over quantity next time.

  • @ShawnSwander You realized that the title of the first video was "Richard Dawkins interviews a Muslim Guy"? Demonstrating that he was not "only showing him speaking to an atheist group" as you claimed. " Oh well, if you actually *want* to remain ignorant...

  • @ShawnSwander "He never speaks of origins, radiometric dating, the geological column, and so on". Why do you need Dawkins to address these specifically (which, by the way he does, in some detail in his books). the awswers are out there in an independant form. see thats the the thing about science, you don't need someone else to tell you stuff froma pulpit; you can go an investigate things for yourself. go - learn, be free; be happy, be filled with wonder. and stop being rehtorical.

  • lmao at Chris Tucker at the end that was a beautiful touch after Dawkins's beautiful piece

  • 0:36 When I saw Dawkins taking his glasses off I said to my self - this is gonna be some serious ass whooping...

  • Dawkins vs John lennox

  • I've heard the arguments that Richard has used in this video before. Next.

  • Wow. That was put brilliantly.

  • rofl the ending

  • I hate cherry pickers

  • @indie4life23 Actually in the case of religious people I prefer they do cherry pick the parts they think are the best, because at least that way they are using their brains to make decisions.

    Religious people need to realize that, although passively, they are making these decisions, and having their 'holy' scripture act as a guideline adds nothing useful to their moral views, and in fact subtracts from them.

  • @Xinfinitude reading through a book & picking which parts they agree with is not using their brain to make decisions; they are still following whatever their holy text tells them to do. They should be able to make moral decisions on their own.

    By cherry picking, they laugh at parts which were taught as the truth when I was at school 10years ago, but continue to be happy to live by rules that prevent gay people being married, women becoming Vicars, or teaching kids the earth is 6,000 years old.

  • @indie4life23 My point was that I'd prefer that religious people cherrypick parts of the bible and turn a blind eye to at least some of the immoral parts of the bible, rather than accepting literally everything in it. For example, most cherry-pickers will 'reject' stoning people for adultery.

    I know it's not ideal; The ideal scenario would be for them to open their eyes and realize the ridiculousness of the entire bible, but that won't be happening any time soon.

  • Actually, I think Dawkins was so prepared for the question he usually gets about where does your morality come from that he accidentally skipped the actual question. I think the audience member was asking something like, "if you accept the type of morality that Dawkins goes on to discuss where we discuss and evolve our morality based on what we know and learn, when you make a moral stand or decision, aren't you making a 'leap of faith' because you acknowledge that the answer you've come may be

  • @terpdawg6924 I agree with you. It was an honest and valid question, which Dawkins exploited to take a cheap shot at Christianity. Clever political strategy for the atheist movement, but a very poor answer to the valid ethics question.

  • @MrStripeyDog Atheist movement? Atheism isn't a movement or a worldview. It's simply not believing in any god. So you are not an anarchist, therefore everything that defines you should be put under a-anarchism. Are you dumb? Having no religion isn't having a certain world view. It's simply rejecting fairytales and look at the world with open eyes. Religion deals with faith....Reality deals with evidence. You live in religion I live in reality, you are deluded. Atheism isn't a movement...

  • @Hermoor you are a a fairy denialist. Quite mad too.

  • @Hermoor New Atheism is the name given to a movement among some 21st-century atheist writers who have advocated the view that "religion should not simply be tolerated but should be countered, criticized, and exposed by rational argument wherever its influence arises." Wikipedia. Go deny some more goblins!

  • @SuperLatvian haha true. I would probably see a pig fly before a rational argument came from the santa disbelievers here.

  • @MrStripeyDog Funny just noticed you are yourself a non believer. You played your part well...your sense of humour is however wicked. Creepy new Zealander, bet you sleep next to a sheep at night.

  • @Hermoor Yes I like to try and understand atheism. Its a pretty wacky movement, which kind of justifies non evidence as the true stance for its position. Not very scientific, especially if we all give up because we can't find evidence. Your racism again is noted.

  • @MrStripeyDog Oh so you are a religious person interested in understanding atheism. Well that is just funny, I'm going to explain it to you more in detail. Theism is belief in a god, A-theism the opposite. Also since when is new zealand a race? Your stupidity entertains me, I'm not even sure why I'm arguing with you. This argument was won by smart people almost 200 years ago.

  • @Hermoor I'm not sure if you realise that 90% of your responses to me are all logical fallacies. Ad hominem is the word for it, and its the most basic mistake. Usually committed when someone has no grounds to stand on. I'm doing research on internet atheists as my propsosal is that atheist isolation, makes the internet the only home for atheists to feel some meaning to their belief. Otherwise you are just meaningless, purposeless with no real value as an atheist.

  • @MrStripeyDog If there are no deities, then an atheist has more purpose than a theist. Your premise and idea don't take into account all the variables. You will need to analyse it from both theist and atheist perspectives. If you wish to follow only the idea you wrote then you will need to ascertain with demonstrable evidence that your deity exists first. Until that is done, your findings will be irrelevant.

  • @DuTriDu Sorry I'm a bit lost about which premise and idea you are talking about. Following comments is getting quite difficult.

  • @MrStripeyDog Your premise "Otherwise you are just meaningless, purposeless with no real value as an atheist.". That statement is dependent upon there being a deity that fits with your theology. You will need to demonstrate the existence of such a deity. Otherwise the condition that there isn't a deity is equally valid and under such condition the theist viewpoint becomes meaningless with no purpose.

  • @DuTriDu Well that statement is true for everyone without a deity. If you have a God, then your life has meaning, purpose, and life is valued. However if there is no deity, then life is completely a random event in the universe with no object value, meaning or purpose. The only meaning you can give to life without a God is subjective meaning, which is your own illusion of what life means. Like I said before, the universe does not care either way what you believe, if there is no God.

  • @MrStripeyDog You having a god is irrelevant. Whether a god actually exists and fits exactly with your dogma is what is relevant. Theistic beliefs are just as subjective as any atheistic beliefs until a deity is shown to exist. In other words, you are under the illusion that your purpose is objective because you believe there is a deity in existence. Unfortunately for your argument, belief does not equal fact.

  • @DuTriDu you have just switched the question around to belief. So do you believe that your life has any meaning?

  • @MrStripeyDog Interesting attempt at moving the goalposts. Your initial premise was based on the belief that 'your' deity exists, so I haven't switched anything. You still need to demonstrate that a deity exists and is exactly as you think it is.

    Now to answer your question, I don't know if my life has objective meaning, I do know is has subjective meaning to me and those around me. I can't see any need for belief in that equation.

  • @DuTriDu I wasnt trying to turn the goalposts, merely trying to work out what you are trying to get at, either meaning of existence, or evidence for deity. If you want proof that my deity I believe in exists, well I have more evidence for existence of a deity than the non existence of one, which is why I turned to theism. So you do not know if your life has meaning, and you do not know if a deity exists? Is this correct?

  • @MrStripeyDog I'm not going to repeat myself, my point has been made in several comments. It's up to you whether you approach the question honestly or with an agenda. Nobody knows if life has meaning or if deities exist. What makes you think I would be any different? Especially since I stated my position in the previous comment. Good day.

  • @DuTriDu I still do not entirely know what you are trying to get out of me. Do you want to know my evidence for my belief. Or are you just stating that any objective meaning to my life is only my belief?

  • @DuTriDu Well I can answer what I think you are getting at. You can only have objective meaning, purpose or value with a deity. It is necessary also, that if there is a deity, that it would entail meaning, purpose and value. The two go together. I cannot say I believe in a deity, but I still have no objective meaning in life. If I had no deity, I cannot say I have objective meaning, as you would agree. But if I said I had objective meaning, I would have to prove where it is from.

  • @MrStripeyDog Objective meaning is subjective to the individual.