Affirmative Action Debate: Conclusion (14 of 14)

[willia3r]

Tim Wise totally owns this whole debate. Passion definitely helps.

[roflbatsupreme]

Great moderator, kept things from getting bloated.

[MrApplewine]

The people debating the FOR, made a horrible argument for their side. Totally weak. They did not uphold the principle and argued based on degree and then supported other racist laws like enforced integration on private property etc. They were actually advocating the right position though. The other side made stupid arguments too.

[catsdogseagles]

There is a fundamental error in the way the questions herein are answered. The panelists are all debating whether there should be a moratorium on affirmative action to those who have historically benefited from the process. This debate would hold much water if that was the question.

[catsdogseagles]

However one should consider if there are others in the country who have not historically benefited from AA and because of more recent circumstances, have been discriminated against: eg. Muslims, people from the Middle East etc. Because using AA would mean more exposure for them and therefore alleviating much of the ignorance in the U.S about the faith/people. There is no shortage of documents that show discrimination against people of a darker complexion, more recently...

[Deron3003]

@catsdogseagles that is not what AA is for...AA is for having equal representation in universities, jobs, and so on..black people and women are underrepresented in every category.. 1) being muslim is a faith not a race or ethnicity 2)middle eastern people are overrepresented in business, and universities compared to their representation in the US

[AliceNchainz011]

@Deron3003 Do you think a "minority" with a lower test score should be selected over a white person with a higher test score and/or qualifications?

[catsdogseagles]

...who have been thought to be Muslim, when they are in fact Hindus/Sikhs

[MetaSensuality1983]

She destroyed her whole argument stating the reason why black students do better in black universities. She basically proved the point of the opposing side

[4girlsmomjd]

IM THE MUFFIN MAN!

[daming209]

Kimberlé Crenshaw ! After prop 209, more minorities, such as blacks and latinos graduated from college. They didn't actually drop out. Second, the participation of these minorities fell in these prestigious universities was because the enrollment rate decreases significantly. These minorities who didn't get enrolled were send to colleges where they met the standards. These were not black colleges. These were the UC school and they were more likely to get involved in school and not drop out.

[Meda01]

@x71u9 I would bet you my lifetime earning that there is at least one black person per 100,000 that would say yes.

[TiPerihelion]

"Listen, if I gain wealth, I have a right to give it to my children..."

Not if you steal it via systemic, institutionalized oppression and slavery. Thieves don't have a right to their spoils.

[newgarda]

Tim Wise is a beast

[Meda01]

thanks

[oober349]

Appeal to popularity fallacy

[Meda01]

Tim Wise has a great way to show every white person exactly how you feel. If there was a pill that if you took made you look black or brown to anyone who didn't know you future employers, bankers, cops, doctors etc. Would you rather take the pill and all the supposed benefits you get because of affirmative action or would you rather stay white? Don't feel like you have to comment and reply, but honestly answer yourself that question.

[chomskyFTW]

@Meda01: I would stay white. I definitely agree that white privilege exists.

[julesvern18]

@Meda01 excellent point.

[raychuang]

@Meda01 That is a good point. Here's another question. Since Asians and Jews aren't benefited by affirmative action anymore (at least not in most academic institutions), it follows that a certain degree of racial equality has been achieved between these ethnic groups and whites. Assuming equality has been achieved here, would you take a pill and become Asian? If you wouldn't take that pill, does that mean racial preferences for Asians should resume? That's the flaw I see in the pill argument.

[beeeefcurtains]

@Meda01 White. Yes, I'll take that again. If you're not white and a man, then don't talk about privilege because you don't know shit about that.

[Roguefox2006]

@Meda01

Tim wise's pill analogy completely disregards a persons sense of identity, both culturally and racially, it would feel deeply uncomfortable for most persons of any race to be looked upon or treated as a member of another race or ethnic group.

People want to be treated as individuals, whilst at the same time having there own customs and beliefs be acknowledged by the people their interacting with. ( eg:a muslim would feel offended at being served pork)

treat people as individuals !

[Sivels]

@Meda01 race is more than just skin color, there are physiological and brain differences as well.

[Deron3003]

@Sivels 1) race is only skin color and genealogy. 2) studies have recently come out disproving your premise that there are brain differences solely based on race 3) the brain differences come from culture which controls habits of thought and language which in turn effects the brain 4) these difference do not effect overall intelligence only how one "originally" thinks

[Sivels]

@Deron3003 google african albinos... do they look like white europeans? no... SIGH

[toohuman90]

@Meda01 I am Persian, but qualify as Caucasian for all purposes regarding higher education or work employment. I can honestly say, I believe that opportunities and the maximum achievements I could achieve in terms of graduate schools and future employment would be significantly greater if I was born black and not persian. So yes, I would take the pill and become black.

[Meda01]

I can see the argument for ending it, but too many people in this country are not ready to see and judge people for nothing more then their merit. So it is not yet time to end affirmative action.

[willia3r]

@Meda01

I agree. 2 years after posting this and your comment still holds as being very logically.

[tubeturds]

I'd rather be who am and not be judge by the melanin content of my skin.

But no matter how you twist your poorly weaved point of view, a white male in this country--short, fat, blind, burned, ugly or otherwise aesthetically "disfigured"--has a distinct advantage over other groups.

A better question to ask yourself: Would you rather be a short, fat, ugly, white guy in the US, or a short, fat, ugly, black guy or black woman for that matter?

I doubt you'll say yes, so your point remains moot.

[tubeturds]

Your attempts to have me agree with you on some minute insignificant point are rhetorically weak and blatantly so.

There are plenty of factors that affect people world wide, but none have been more damaging than racial, religious, and or gender persecution.

Ugly is an opinion.

Short is a comparison and you over generalize the CEO nonsense. I've met plenty who are short.

Skin color, however, is an instant identifier that comes ladened with stereotypes and myths, a fact you choose to ignore.

[tubeturds]

Yet again, you ignore the history of an issue for the sake of introducing illegitimate points.

Have those people been systematically oppressed and/or enslaved for any prolonged period in history?

Do they find themselves looked down upon because of that history?

Are there stereotypes aptly associated with burn victims and homosexuals that somehow impede their happiness or success?

Do either of those groups find themselves treated harshly/unfairly by law enforcement?

Yes to all? Not at all?

[tubeturds]

Sure, if at some point in the past ugly and stupid people found themselves enslaved for 300 years and still suffer from the fallout of their enslavement.

You undermine a number of historical facts by arbitrarily introducing factors that have never proven themselves to be nearly as damaging as the assumptions and stereotypes associated with a persons skin color.

[redboneafricana86]

It is a cop out to say that Affirmative Action is reverse racism when AA was a celestial if not unapologetic way of life when it worked AGAINST women and minorities less than 50 years ago and was viewed as apart of how things were since the insemination of this nation. The truth of the matter is that arguments against reinstating AA stems from a fear of evening the playing field- resulting in more than marginal black and minority success stories = more competition for wealth and power smh

[redboneafricana86]

Ignorance truly is bliss. I was once against affirmative action but after careful research I've found that institutional racism calls for AA- it clearly exists based on the numbers (stats) I came across. Those with a history of injustice in this country are stillplaying catch up to there white counterparts. It is directly due to pasts prejudices.

[ultradnawargreymon]

AA fosters racism.

[atoda1112]

Boy he is ignorant! The only reason he is even there is to give africans representation. Anyone can go to work tomorrow and see who is benefiting from AA. The beneficiaries of race and gender conscious affirmative action programs encompass a wide range of communities. Many groups, including white women, Arab Americans, Asian Americans, Latino Americans and Native Americans heavily rely on affirmative action programs. With the passage of Proposal 2, all these groups stand to be hurt.

[keilyngodson26]

Whites are incapable of equality. Hundreds of years have passed since this country's inception and we are STILL debating this? I say Fuck Harvard. Universities like Harvard are mechanical institutions which peoduce inhuman machines. Just go to an HBC and make your own "Harvard"

[michaelanthony112]

With large corporations losing business and having to focus so much on corp responsibility, this if done well by the government will penalize who should be penalized. Any comments, arguments, further discussion on developing this plan is welcome.

Regards

[michaelanthony112]

Disassemble AA and form a Audit System with a Ethics/Prejudice detecting focus. If a company is presumed that they are not practicing ethically/unbiased, then they are investigated. Penalties are if found guilty, a publication of the failure, a hefty fine and schduling for another audit in a chosen future date.

[michaelanthony112]

here will always exist some form of prejudices in the workplace, however should I argue an injustice because Puff Daddy's redcord company doesn't hire me and I think it is because I am white. No! I am educated and qualified, therefore it is there loss not mine...with the amount of big business there is out there a firm going somewhere we realize my talent and pick me up by putting business first and prejudices in the garbage.

[michaelanthony112]

Thank you for the correction scj16

[michaelanthony112]

Prejudices in the workplace is a problem, but AA is not the answer. Penalizing individuals that have done nothing to deserve it is recreating the initial problem that existed in society in the dark ages of slavery and oppression. Those problems have been brought to a dormant state through societies maturation and AA is simply taking a step backward. T

[TiPerihelion]

1. AA doesn't penalize anybody. As Khin Mai Aung noted in her closing statement, eliminating AA in college admissions would only improve the average, individual white man's chances of admission by 1.5%. That's statistically insignificant.

2. Even if AA did involve penal punishment, it would in no way resemble the horror of slavery and racial oppression. I cannot even believe you would make that comparison, you daft, privileged git.

[scj16]

OK. First of all I meant to write: Tim Wise=truth. And it was a sincere remark with a touch of humor.

and michaelanthony i apologize. while i disagreee i dont' believe you're racist. i thought you wrote that the black guy couldn't debate because he was black. Reading it again i was mistaken.

I still believe that Tim Wise was the most elequent and correct.

[michaelanthony112]

showing the redundancy and pointlessness of even debating...it is about perseverance his point was...stop complaining and find a way regardless of you challenges...as everyone has them...FIND THE SOLUTION, DONT JUST STARE AT THE PROBLEM AND PENALIZE THROUGH REVERSE RACISM

[michaelanthony112]

sHOWING THE REDUNDANCY AND POINTLESSNESS OF EVEN DEBATING. IT IS ABOUT PERSEVERANCE...PEOPLE ARE CHALLENGED IN DIFFERENT WAYS, DON'T COMPLAIN...PERSEVERE...FIND THE SOLUTION, DONT JUST STARE AT THE PROBLEM AND PENALIZE THROUGH REVERSE RACISM

[michaelanthony112]

The female black debater on the against side had some valid points, however often skewed away from questions all together...the female chinese debater brought on the perspective that it is not all black and white, there are other types of minority americans too...however she did not support much of an arugment.

BEST DEBATER: THE ASIAN MAN ASKING QUESTIONS PROVED ENOUGH TO THROW EVERYTHING ASTRAY. AN ENTIRE ASIAN GROUP OF STUDENTS SCORED THE BEST SCORE ON THE TESTS THAT BOTH SIDES COMPLAIN ABOUT

[TiPerihelion]

"The female black debater on the against side had some valid points...the female chinese debater..."

They also had names, asshat. And you expect us to believe you're not racist when you can't even be bothered to scroll up and use their names, rather than their skin color and sex to identify them? Do us all a favor and STFU.

[michaelanthony112]

The two black debaters on the "FOR" side were terrible and the one older white debater was the only one on their side with valid arguments...however rarely heard from and often drowned out by the too loud and obviously uneducated football player leading the charge. You are not a bad debator because you are black, but because you are a meathead...lol. argue that one..haha. Stats guy on the end of against side appeared to have some good aruments, but I can prove the moon ismadeofcheesewithstats.

[scj16]

A classic example of racism, ignorance and plain old stupidity=snowtrot.

[scj16]

TIME WISE=TRUTH!

[Pelonetillo]

thank you very much for uploading this! very good watch. tim wise, wow. never heard of him, the guys pretty awesome. i was shocked at how open conservatives were to groups just staying with their own kind, framing integration as some kind of desire for minorities to feel better because they were around white people. thats nonsense!

[Jaekto]

" How did 'they' get that so-called "privilege"?" you ask? Did you not see Tim Wise's argument? How about: Homestead Act. Or FHA Home Loans. Or maybe good old fashioned Manifest Destiny. Jesus Christ stop being so dense.

Furthermore, you can go ANYWHERE on the Internet reputable and find data proving race is genetically insignificant. Even wikipedia! Homo sapiens have not existed long enough to show ANY difference in intelligence among race. Race, my friend, is an invention. Nothing more.

[dlite0509]

The reason that you can't say that whites are better intellectually than most, is because its not true. It may be what you have been taught, but our hidden history shows that it is a fallacious argument. The reason it may seem that way, at least in America is because whites are more privileged and have had the ability to attend better schools.

[ArcBladeKnight]

snowtrot can't say whites are better intellectually because 1) it's not true, and 2) by saying that you're saying that the white races is a superior race. And that's definitely not true. You're obivously not better intellectually.

[Sivels]

@ArcBladeKnight You conclude whites aren't intellectually superior because 1) you say it's not true and 2) by doing so you would admit that there's no such thing as equality.

God, you're a moron.

[dustcurrington]

The entire debate was premised on the fallacious assumption that all racial groups are genetically identical and equality of outcome possible without massive state intervention (cheating). There is no evidence supporting equality, and mountains of evidence against it, yet most "debates" related to race (or sex) are premised on the assumption that equality is an established fact. Marxists want to silence all oposition and enshrine their pathetic, hateful, dysfunctional delusions as universal law.

[Userlicious]

To those of you who watched the whole debate: They're all like really smart, really immature children. What's the deal with that? If anything they proved that people being petty, oversensitive, and emotionally undisciplined is more of a problem then racism.

[guisher11]

Userlicious -- spoken like a true white person; ie you don't have anything at stake (daddy's got your back), so you can afford to be emotionally unattached. I am grateful to have passionate people to defend my children's future opportunities.

[Userlicious]

Yeah they're real heroes:

"Each evening begins at 6:00P with a complimentary cocktail period. As you enter the theater before the debate starts at 6:45P, you cast your vote for or against the evening's motion... The debate finishes with brief summations from the panelists, the votes are tallied and a winning side is declared."

[qolspony]

Black women have been on the forefront of promoting this affirmative action program. Before 1974, black males made up the higher bulk of black students attending college institutions. Now it in reverse. It isn't so much that I'm against black women achieving success, it's that it wasn't what held the black family together. I'm not about stereotyping, but an unemployed and uneducated man doesn't make a good husband. If black women can open their eyes, they can see how this program has divided u