Renzo and all of Gracies did not evolve as fighters. Their BJJ alone is not enough to compete against top level guys. Matt Hughes demolished all BJJ pin-pointed opponents such as Renato Verissimo, Royce Gracie, B.J. Penn, Matt Serra, Renzo Gracie, Ricardo Almeida. Renzo should have known that his BJJ skills will not be enough to win. He should have worked on his wrestling and standup, then again he's 43 .. kind of old. Put Renzo against Randy!!!
@pcjudosambo matt hughes did not demolish BJ penn, he was gettin beat up until BJ gassed, BJ is a mma fighter not just a BJJ guy and imo will beat hughes in their third fight
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Lol, that rich kid from abuh dabi basically got jiu jitsu to where it is now, he created the world tournaments because he loved the martial art. And I believe he was the son of some king over there or something so he just flew everyone in and now it is every year they hold world championships there i believe.
It is probably because the Gracies still think they are the shit even though the martial art keeps evolving so even a Gracie has to train hard now a days.
If you look at the best strikers in the world, guys who move from kickboxing,thai,sanshou,wkb and other orgs that what happens. Cro crop early in his career was killing people, kid norfi is small for even 135 and was a monster in mma, cung le was strikeforce champ at 185, anderson silva former shoot champion destroy guys who fight on the ground. Yes they all have losses to grapplers/submmision fighters but they all have far more impressive wins.
matt hughes the gracie killer for me its the best figther in mma shame the age come for hem i think rodrigo gracie maybe can beat matt but we whait for that and my respects for gracie fans
Some think the Silva fight was interesting or not....YOU have to look at the BIG picture. Hughes was an INSULT, PENN was a blow to your face (in terms of dominance), well...at this point I'm thinking SILVA should win to to keep UFC alive. BEHOLD....Silva wins with his SKILL (which I don't dispute), but seriously, UFC needed that win MORE than Silva. IF you see the whole event, anybody with half a brain would see that it IS RIGGED.
Some think the Silva fight was interesting or not....YOU have to look at the BIG picture. Hughes was an INSULT, PENN was a blow to your face (in terms of dominance), well...at this point I'm thinking SILVA should win to to keep UFC alive. BEHOLD....Silva wins with his SKILL (which I don't dispute), but seriously, UFC needed that win MORE than Silva. IF you see the whole event, anybody with half a brain would see that it IS RIGGED
Hughes will win this easy. I respect the Gracies, but they think all you need is their jiu jitsu... That good ol' American wrasslin' is gonna break him apart! He'll end up like Royce, let's just be honest. This is what's gonna happen: They come out, Matt shoots and takes him down, Matt smears Renzo around the mat for 2 mins, gets mount, pounds his face up, ref pulls Matt off.
@peetism12345 fuck u man what are u thinking, we have that not .but in your contry is a normal thing, go look at your sister or your mother ,im sure that other man fuck her an you are a soon of bitch
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yawn....does anyone care about this fight...both these fighters are done. Go retrie somewhere and be done with it...matt is trying to find someone he can beat..well i guess he found someone...i mean Renzo hasn't fought since 2007 and that was against umm (laugh) frank shamrock...wow can't wait..lol.
Renzo... 13-6 .... Hughes 43-7.. Renzo loses to the likes of Carlos Newton (though he did avenge it) BJ Penn and Dan Henderson... not awful, Hughes lost to GSP twice, Alves, BJ Penn, Hughes doesn't lose to average guys you know, he loses to ALL STAR fighters... no offense, but Hughes is gonna SMASH Renzo.
@Oreo609@Oreo609 Ehh there is a problem with your logic there : Henderson is/was a better rated fighter than alves all-around.
So was Sakuraba at the time renzo faught him.
Hughes lost to dennis hallman... TWICE and Carlos newton was higher rated than Hallman. And that Serra decicion was questionable, hughes didnt do anything in that fight
And he didnt lose do gsp the second time, he got seriously smashed.
@Oreo609 If your going to do "Who they have lost to math" pick out the lesser competition renzo has lost against like Oyama and Tamura. (however they were much heavier than renzo at the time they fought)
I do belive however that Huges has a better record and will probably win.
this is total bullshit to make Renzo cut all that wgt..is matt not man enough to fight him at a catch wgt..He better watch out because Renzo has alot better stand up than Royce..
Too many people talking and not knowing. I dont care how much you weight or how much you can bechpress. If you are put down by a college wrestler or a Good BJJ practitioner (does not have to be a black belt) you my freind.... are in a world of trouble. Wrestlign technique and power dominates the ground, bjj has too many tools to bring you pain before you even think how are you going to get up again!!
@usabreakers Don't forget that Renzo is a master at BJJ, might help him counter the weight issue... I do think Hughes will win tho, he's got so much skill/experience that it's a hard task to beat him. GSP sure did during their rematch (haha just had to pitch that one in as GSP's my boy)
It's obvious you don't like BJJ. That's fine. Not everyone will believe in an art proven by a weakling Brazilian. Some prefer to be a ninja. That's cool.
But in a real fight, grappling happens. Whether you like it or not.
BJJ is only one component of a complete fighter, but an important one. Because ground happens, regardless of our intention to keep it standing.
And btw, the kick you saw Renzo do against Oleg is an "up kick". It's taught as a basic self-defense move in BJJ.
No he did a kick up, classic van dam kick up in a fight vs a japanese fighter. Also in a "real" fight very few fights ever require grappling. You've ever get in a real fight? The second it goes to the ground people take notice and people jump in or in my case and you try to take my down thats fine cause ill drop and elbow to the back of your neck. I know jui jitsu cause im a fan of all martial arts. I have no problem with bjj but the idea you have to have it or is importance is a bit overrated.
I'm not an extremist. Quite frankly I don't care if ppl think BJJ is useless. It's a free world.
But you need to separate fantasy from reality. You are living in a dreamworld if you think your elbow to the neck will stop a grappler.
On the flipside, a grappler ACTIVELY SEEKING ground against multiple attackers is suicide. That said, all MA is deficient here. Weapons/ improvised weapons, disengagement is the order of the day. Grappling is used to escape the clinch/ground.
Nope not multiple opponents just me, also hhow many elbows it take bones jones to bloody up hamill, how many of silva elbows it take to take out fryklund,how many knees it took for gomi to take out a gracie, im sorry in a real fight it only takes 1. The mma world has rules on the direction the strike comes from. How many knees it take for frank to make renzo unable to fight, also the back of the head and where the neck connects is one of the most damaging hits to take. You know nothing,
you are either a troll or delusional (as in Ashida Kim).
In either case, it is a waste of my time to debate with you. Please check in to your nearest MMA school and challenge them. After all, in a real fight, you'll be able to beat Brock Lesnar right? :) With an elbow to the back of the head. -chuckle-
Wow amazing, you probably the worst debater ever simply cause ive done this a few times and other people were much better then you. Tou your point you have to make a comment about me beating brock? How many brocks are there in the world? Its a joke what you bring up and how you cant back anything up. Would i fight brock in a mma contest, why not. Theres a high chance i would lose being when im in shape im around170-185. Also my best chance of winning would be a high kick or an elbow. Take care
lol im a mhuy tie guy but i know the power of BJJ. One day when you face a grappler and he knows what he is doing you will see what will happen to you 1 he will take you to the ground 2 you are his he will do whatever he wants to you unless you have some sort of BJJ behind you not trying to be a dick or start a texing war not like that but think about it.
How many times has a bjj fighter struggle in a mma because the opposing fighter was just stronger or faster? How many times in dream and pride did a bjj fighter go for a take down and miss and ended up getting kicked in the face or stomped. Cro crop broke sakuraba eye socket and cracked open fujitas head when tehy went for the take down. Whats teh number 1 rule when fighting someone? Never take your eyes away from you opponent. Bjj is used less when your opponent is faster or stronger.
Got your panties in a little bunch when I commented you can't beat Brock. But then again, it seems that it is you who compares yourself to Jones, Silva, Crocop.....
Look, Crocop is a beast. But it does'nt mean that if he can stop fujita's takedown, you can too. You're not Crocop. You are a ninja-sui practitioner (chuckle). Hell, a skinny ass Brazilian would probably look like a D1 champ against you.
No more debate. Put up or shut up. You make a claim of being deadly, prove it.
Your a fool, you make stupid comments then i rebute them to you and you comment back with you aeint cro crop, no shit sherlock and im not foughting lesner. What i say is proven and has been used in mma fights and real fights aswell. You make no points other then the fact i took ninja sui and southern style kung fu which you know nothing about. The mere fact you cant comprehend the different scenerios of fighting and hits shows your inexperience and lack of knowledge, try doing something producti
You van dam was a pro fighter right? You know the man benched over 375lbs and weighed around 200. Also ichihara didnt have a high skill level and wasnt in that good of shape. So when you put someone with a high skill level against a person who not in shape, doesnt have a high skill level and is little to boot hes gonna lose. Also i have benched 270,deadlifted 425 and pressed 215 and i weighed 175. Your an idiot and have no examples other then fights between hill billys in wifebeaters.
You keep doing the same thing. You give examples of Rampage against Arona... as if Rampage learned how to do that from ninja-sui. Rampage has a wrestling base, moron. Wrestlers are badass. Ninjas, only in movies.
And Ichihara was a daido-juku karate champ. Who's Royce again? In the BJJ and modern MMA world, he is not much and Wallid choked him unconscious.
Face it, your logic is hopeless. Crying over your posters of Vandamme won't help.
Seriously your point is when the ufc took any body from the streets to fight, guys who recieved a black belt probably from the katas they learned and your gonna use them as examples? Your a moron, that be like me saying look a cro crop has done to all those bjj,jj, and judo fighters man they did real well taking him down. Or how ricardo arona do against rampage. Also many mma fighters from japan train in the tradional japanese styles on there spar time(ninjasui) dumbass
Are you stupid? I bring up facts about fighting and all you talk about is ninjasui which besides from the weapon training is karate and jui jitsu. So i conclude that your an idiot and my previous comment was just another note of what i was saying. You've said nothing other then your retarded dribble which consisted of name calling. You cant back anything you say with facts or proven fights when here on utube theres a plethera of chocies to make. So continue going threw life as a moron as you wer
LOL. Talking to you is just like talking to a histrionic, self-contradicting little girl.
Facts and proven fights? I have given plenty of examples where MMA guys demonstrate the importance of grappling. What have you given me... references to Vandamme and OTHER MMA guys beating MMA guys. lol
As for name calling, you started it buddy, but u cry like a lil bitch once it's back at you.
You have problems accepting harsh reality. That's life, be an idiot and you'll get slapped
@Kdaddy61987 I actually got intrigued and read the debate you guys were having. After reading through the ridiculousness, I'm not quite sure what your point is. First you criticize BJJ guys for taking people down. Then you cite Bones Jones...If I'm not mistaken, Jones used a Judo throw to take Vera down immediately and then a minute later put him down with a wrestling takedown.
How come you said if anyone every tried to take you down, you'd ninja elbow them...but then you praise Jones?
No, im saying taking people down is far overrated. Its a useful tool but not a neccessary one and my point with the elbow is that in many fights for higher skilled fighters it only takes 1 hit. In many fights to crushing blow is where you hit them not how many times. In a real fight using bjj could cost you for the simple fact the rules help them. In that same fight vera did a up kick to the face and was penalized. I like watching yuki yoshida and maia work, there awesome but overrated.
@Kdaddy61987 But there lies the paradox. I'm only 5'6. I've been doing Judo for 4 years, and BJJ and Muay Thai for about 2. When a I'm in the dojo, no noob can Ippon or tap me. I can completely dictate what happens regardless of height or strength (98% of the time..heh). But when I'm at Muay Thai and I'm sparring some 6'2 jacked guy who has been to a total of 10 classes, he tags me sometimes.
I'd def take someone down who thought BJJ was overrated. GnP is actually hard when you don't train it.
Thats most likly due to the fact there not very good. I did martial arts and moved on to other things. Guys in my powerlifting group were far more physical and stronger then the guys in the martial art classes, you saying the noobs you faced means nothing. For instance im 5'10 175 lbs at the time, 4 years ago and i benched 270,pressed 215 and deadlifted 425 and though i was strong there were guys in the weight room much stronger then me. These guys you couldnt control.
@Kdaddy61987 You show that you've never trained a grappling art if you think that bodybuilders can walk into a BJJ or Judo class and destroy everyone. Especially in Judo where big guys get tripped up easily. In my BJJ class, I got a meathead in an armbar and he picked me up and slammed me instead of tapping. Since it was completely illegal, our instructor told him to check his ego or not come back. If it were a real fight, I would have just snapped the arm.
if it was a real fight he would of slammed your head into the cement or against a curve or into the wall. Check his ego? You could of broken his arm but he could of killed you, also it illegal at your gym my friend works out in renton where guys who fight for the king of the cage org train. Thats legal there and people do it. Also the bigger he is and the smaller you are the less likely hes satying down whehter or not you tried to break it.
@Kdaddy61987 But the point is that we are trying to learn technique. You want to teach guys to stuff submissions, not try and over power them. At 5'6 150 (fighting at 135), of course every 200 lb guy is going to be able to pick me up and slam me. But what does that prove? Is he going to be able to slam guys his own size?
I still don't get your point. Are you saying I'd be a better fighter if I stopped training MMA and focused all my energy on power lifting?
Wow are you just playing stupid? I never said anything was useless but overrated. 1 you would be better if you added weight and to move up and maintain hand and foot speed. Look at guys like frank shamrock who adds bulk, akono who was better at 185 and mike brown. These guys added bulk to become better fighters. You look at frank mir who has never been good at anything has just now added muscle to all that skill and he still got murdered by a meatbag. Theres no comprimise to raw power or skill.
@Kdaddy61987@Kdaddy61987 The reason why I don't understand what you're saying is that you're telling people that pretty much the reason MMA was invented is overrated. If it weren't for take downs, subs, and GnP, we could just watch kickboxing and boxing. I am most comfortable using Judo throws on tall guys just because its why I've done the longest. The one time I used it outside, the guy was done after the throw. No need to swing up pick guys up.
Whoa mma has been going on for years! My dad took karate and he saw a mma fight in the 70s when he was in japan. Benny the jet did kickboxing events yet trained in judo. Bruce lee in his movies is put in armbars and traigle chokes, jackie chans movies he has many close up fights and clinch type of work. All these guys made movies with mma type of ideals in the 70s and 80s. Jui jitsu in no fashion created mma, martial arts has been around since the beginning of man, its ignorant that you say that
@Kdaddy61987 You know what I mean so don't be a dick. Sure, the Greeks had Pankration events and there have been mixed style fights since before recorded history. But were grapplers able to make a living practicing their sport in the 70s besides hoping to be in movies or teaching? When I say "invented" (bad verb), I mean popular MMA where fans fuel their living.
135? thats way to small, You have to move up, look at kid norfi. He is one of the best skill fighters on the planet but he loses fight just cause hes to small. You should add at least 10lbs of muscle preferably 15 but i dont know if you could enter comps at 150. You want to be able to deadlift 350 and bench around 225 at 145. Even with that you be tiny and at no point could you beat a bigger guy. Ive picked up guys who have tried to armbar me at 160, bigger dude could put power behind it.
@Kdaddy61987 What am I supposed to do? I didn't wrestle seriously in high school so I wasn't big on cutting weight. I fought at 145 for my first fight and the guy I was fighting was 6'1. I was 19 (I'm 21 now) and I was terrified. I go absolutely destroyed in that fight.
For my big lifts, I do the 5 sets of 5 program. 195 for bench, 290 for deads, 155 for clean and press, and 285 for squats. The rest of my training is mostly medicine ball and plyo stuff...and actual MMA. Any tips oh wise one?
What are you looking for? Question, your fighting in a mma org or atleast attempting too and your a small guy so how are you arguing what i have said when you yourself is proof of it? You train and unless you are gonna say your skill level isnt very high, you should of won these fights with skill. You lose fights because of loss of mass and height. I couldnt tell you what to do cause i simply am a different person stature wise. Where you debating me or just looking to talk smack on the internet?
@Kdaddy61987 Everyone knows that size and height are factors in fighting. But you said taking people down is overrated. You told that guy that if anyone ever tried to do it to you, they'd get an elbow to the neck. It just pressed my buttons as a Judo practitioner and he fact that so many MMA fighters have jobs because of their ability to take people down.
My skill level ISN'T very high. That big dude I lost to was a BJJ purple belt.
@Kdaddy61987 You accuse ME of smack talking? You come to a video interview of Renzo Gracie and say that ground fighting is overrated. If that isn't trolling, I don't know what is.
You're right, MMA fights ARE set up to control outcomes. People want to see skill. If they didn't, we could just watch two meatheads fight for a lot cheaper.
I just don't like how you spin everything so muscle trumps skill. We've seen smaller fighters trump big guys lots of times.
Once again you act to quickly, i do believe grappling and the wrestling aspect of fighting is overrated but it a pc of it. Sourd of like you think that weight lifting isnt as important. I like great grapplers who can control there abilitys. the gracies are good not great. Guys like genki sudo,yuki yoshida,sakuraba maia are outstanding submission artist and its there bread and butter but there strength becomes a weakness. To me its just a fact of life not hating or putting it down.
@Kdaddy61987 Of course I think weight lifting is important. I take my weight training seriously. As does every professional fighter.
I am a big fan of Yoshida as well. Did he get overwhelmed by size and strength by Rumble Johnson who cut from 225 and didn't make weight? sure. But its not like it was just overwhelming force. Rumble Johnson had a decent wrestling career.
See another thing is you keep talking about these guys other skills, yes they have them in the bag but how do they win fights. Yoshida is so small that johnson and koscheck beat them with just pure size. Now koscheck took johnson to the ground but he didnt against yoshida and thats what seperates the fights. Skill level is very important but if other guys had the size they would be better. Having all the tools is good but you have to be a great stand up fighter for all the reasons ive said.
@Kdaddy61987 That doesn't mean that takedowns are overrated though. That just means that size is important in fighting also. Look at the Nate Diaz fight. I thought him moving up to 170 would mean he would show up jacked. He didn't. He looked as skinny as ever. Markham showed up 7lbs overweight and looked jacked out of his mind. What did Diaz use to end up TKOing him? Superior grappling to wear him down and then pound him out w/ a ton of weak but effective punches.
They didnt grapple, it was all on the feet. Also i think marham was originally a 185 fighter and hasnt fought for over a year so you dont want to get to much into it. Sourd of like forrest vs shogun when shogun needed 2 knee surgeries or the guy who just beat okami. Okami just came off of knee surgery and a year before that he broke his hand so its hard to say things like that when guys arent at there best and rusty. Also thats my point diaz a good grappler fought it on his feet.
But you neglect the fact that Diaz had him in that body lock while he had his back. He rolled him over several times and totally controlled him. It wasn't all on the feet. Less than 2 minutes into the fight it was on the ground and never left.
Agreed thats what a good ground game does but would the fight ended any diferently if he let markum stand up? LEts say he just walks away and says lets keep it on the feet, would the result been any different? Sometimes you just have the guys number, i like to example the cro crop vs yoshida and mir vs nog where they didnt go to the ground at all and just dominated the fight. Diaz dominated the fight in all facets doesnt change the fact he was gonna win.
@Kdaddy61987 What...who knows what would happen if Diaz decided to stand and bang with him. Why give a guy who is a KO artist a chance to do the deed when you are obviously the better grappler. I don't think Diaz has TKOed anyone in like 5 years. That's what he does...takes people down.
Its like GSP. He takes people down and eliminates the possibility of getting Matt Serra'ed again.
Once again were back at the start, gps proably the best wreslter p4p and what is his weakness? A good striker, guys who will hit him and hard. He almost lost the first fight to penn cause bjs hand speed and he was overwhelmed with serra power. Gsp is not a great striker but hes a awesome wreslter and you look at his last fight(him and fitch are starting to bore me) they are great at what they do but will lost to a better striker. Striking<grappling,wreslting,bjj,judo,akido,sambo, and all others
But Hardy's striking is arguably his strongest asset. How can you hit someone if you are on your back the whole time? That's the same thing for me. I don't want some football meathead to swing at me with bad form and possibly KO me because he is a power lifter.
Really hardy lost by decision. The fight lasted 25 minutes which would only happen in a mma ring. Also no hardy is not a great striker thats why he doesnt have many wins by ko.
Just by chance you see the silva vs maia fight? I love maia ground game but to me that is what happens when the best fighters in thw world do to people who focus more on the ground game. Silva avoided takedowns and that was it, gsp had hardy down the entire fight yet didnt leave a mark on hardy. Silva made a statement by saying ufc bring in some good fighters. The ufc let go dan henderson and didnt sign melvin mahnhoef who to me would give silva the most problems.
@Kdaddy61987 That fight does nothing at all to prove your point. There is really no one at middle weight to challenge Silva. Maia stepping in for an injured Belfort is exactly that.
Silva stuffs takedowns and subs so well because he is a BJJ and Judo black belt. So its not like he agrees with you that takedowns are over rated. He has been training it for years.
And if I'm not mistaken, you're the guy who said he could out wrestle D-1 wrestlers because you lift weights.
Anyone can learn how to wreslt, look at gsp. He beat how many former all american college wreslters and he didnt take wrestling seriously till he got in mma? Also this is exactly my point maia is arguably the best submission artist in the wolrd right now and he couldnt get it to the ground which makes it overrated. Just simple logic, also if i got in shape whos to say i couldnt beat a guy at wrestling in my own weight class? How many bjj fighters does silva need to embarress?
@Kdaddy61987 You can't cite GSP as a reason why you think YOU can out wrestle D-1 wrestlers because you are a power lifter. The man is a freak. Jon Jones is a Greco guy. But he learns Judo throws from watching videos. That doesn't mean "anyone can learn" to do it. It just shows how amazing these guys are.
While Maia is a thoroughbred ADCC champ, Silva is still a blackbelt in both Judo and BJJ. You can't call Maia's grappling overrated when he is trying to take down those credentials.
Really takase did pretty easy as well as okami. Heres the thing you just named 2 guys who are out of the norm murdering former wrestlers, guess what theres thousands of guys who walk in there and beat up guys who have the "credentials" machida got his brown belt in bjj before he fought ortiz and nearly got submitted twice. Fitch recieved a bb in gorilla bjj and yet he couldnt submit a pillow. Those mean nothing.
@Kdaddy61987 Takase is known to be a great jits guy. His MMA skills don't measure up. Okami got knocked out by an illegal kick.
I am fortunate to have trained w/ Jon Jones in central NY before he moved his training camps to Greg Jackson's. He was a Jr college national champion and would have went to wrestle a Iowa if the UFC didn't pick him up.
Grappling credentials mean nothing? How many times has Machida actually been subed? Fitch?
Do you really think Beach muscles > JJ black belts?
Okami got silva to the ground is my point, how did he get him there as oppose to maia, simply being bigger and stronger. Takase is a amazing jj guy but what has it done for his fighting career? Hes lost to bigger stronger guys he couldnt get down. Silva isnt a super strong guy which is why hes been taken to the ground but only to those who physically can. Also you act as if general knowlegde is something these wreslters wouldnt have. Whos mirs weight lifting coach?
@Kdaddy61987 He did it the same way that Hendo did. Okami (while a participant at ADCC) has a wrestling style. Leites and Maia aren't Jits guys who think lifting isn't important. Takedowns in BJJ are nowhere near as emphasized as they are in wrestling or Judo.
Okami is enormous. Marquardt accidentally roided back in the day. Sonnen beat both of them. Did he do that by being bigger and stronger?
What? Wrestlers have general knowledge, you do not.
Dude sonnen beat okami after how long of a lay off? He needed surgery to fix his knee so saying sonnen beat him is nothing to brag about. Also my point with mir is bodybuilders know weightlifting and muscles better then other people. Mir needed someone to increase cardio and strength without taking a big hit to his endurance. Who he get a pro meatbag. Now about wrestling, go watch bully beatdown with the russian bodybuilder vs the pro mma fighter. See how it turns out.
@Kdaddy61987 Okami had 6 months to rehab from his injury. What about Marquardt? The man roided.
Mir went and got top of the line weight lifting and packed on 15lbs of solid muscle. So your argument to not focus on taking the fight to the ground and "power lift" instead is stupid. Mir got beat on his feet.
If you think the Russian body builder had no grappling experience then you are blind. Did you see his lightning fast sprawl and his ability to hold half guard for dear life?
The mir fight, he has never been good at anything really but him adding the weight makes him better. You can tell hes a better fighter but that doesnt make him a great fighter, aslo where he lose on his feet to a bigger stronger fighter. Also the things the russian dude did is basic stuff which anyone could do if they just practiced for and hour. Yes he had no grappling experience, its obvious.
@Kdaddy61987 Saying you can learn to wrestle in an hour is INSANE. I don't understand why this is so hard to understand. Of course everything looks easy on TV. It looks basic because it is a simple move...but actually putting it into practice is whole different situation. I can't believe you still take wrestling so lightly.
Mir is a BJJ black belt. He has subed lots of opponents. But all the weight lifting still didn't save him on his feet. That's my point.
The ability to counter someone else does mean they have experience. He lifts and and understands to get out of the way and functions of bodycontrol, you ever push 1 1/2 times your own weight above your head? You have to get low and guess what thats a sytem in avoiding the takedown. Go look up wsm wrestling matches some of them bad some of them good. It depends on the person and skill level but most of them have no ma experience.
@Kdaddy61987 There are a lot of absolutely moronic people on youtube but you are by far the most ridiculous. Of course weight lifting is good for sports. Nearly all athletes lift. But saying you can sprawl, shoot a double leg, or reverse a takedown because you do power clean and presses is the stupidest thing I've ever heard.
Barbells don't use technique to throw or pin you.
Why don't you practice for an hour and then go wrestle a D1 wrestler.
@Kdaddy61987 Also, you must be home schooled or live in some kind of bubble. You do realize that HUGE wrestlers cut to make 149. If you stayed at 200, I'm pretty sure you would die.
A while ago, some videos were posted of Arizona State's wrestling conditioning workouts. If you think that you can do what they do and if "anyone can learn how to wrestle", I fully expect you to get a full ride to wrestle division one. Otherwise, grow up. What are you...like 14?
@Kdaddy61987 comming from someone who used to wrestle, i can honestly tell you that wrestling is more physically demanding than any other apect of mma and its not nearly as simple as you may think. Not everyone has what it takes to wrestle
Thats not what im saying, everything comes with a certain skill set and persons own personel strength and weaknesses. All im saying is that wrestling/submission are overrated compared to the stand up aspect of fighting. Am i saying that im a great wrestler no, could i be maybe. Just saying if im stronger,faster and mopre athletic then you i have a fair shot at beating you, not because of skill but because of mass and athleticsm
Ill give an example, roy nelson cuts how much weight? Hes a great wrestler and bjj guy. His mass is a asset and his skills make him a really unique fighter. Gsp natural abilitys made him a amazing wreslter. He just has the ability to overwhelm you. I powerlift and if i was simply stonger then you and just as athletic i would be a tough out for someone forcing me aginst my will.
@Kdaddy61987 well the thing is that in a few and i stress that just a few instances the difference in strength may come in handy but for the most part it really doesnt help too much and im telling you from experience, ive wrestled stronger guys and ive wrestled weaker guys. The reason BJJ and wrestling is so important is that fights usually end on the floor. btw is it just me or was this ufc rigged most the fights looked fake?
Really fake? these guys go broke money wise and lose limbs for the pure entertainment? Shogun needed to 2 knee surgeries and had a broken arm, okami knee surgery broken hand, does wana silva last 6 kos look fake? Also most fights go to the floor depending on what? The stonger fighter choosing to go to the ground, cro crop never fought on the ground much, manhoef never fights on the ground.
@Kdaddy61987 UFC 112 looked fake , on the matt and renzo fight it looked set up so did it look set up on bj's fight. That what i meant, And yea most fights end up on the floor period, so dont try to be a smart ass, whether its from a take down or getting knocked down by a strike most fights in ufc, zuffa, the street will end up on the floor and thats a fact
What are you talking about? Of course someone in a fight always goes down to the ground but heres the difference in pride going to the ground was a bad thing alot of times for fighters. Guys like melvin manhoef would have 2-3 less losses if he was allowed to stomp which in a term would be more like an actual fight. Cro crop broke sakuraba and fugitas face when they tried to take it down. Gomi nearly broke open gracies head when he tried to take it down. Rules change the aspect of fighting.
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calle34able 4 months ago
Helwani is a better interviewer than just about anybody on the major networks in any category.....at least in America.
Horhayj 1 year ago
este tipo no tiene nada que hacer en UFC, no tiene el nivel tecnico ni la condicion para competir en ese nivel.
rbtfcf 1 year ago
@rbtfcf don't say bulshit he's renzo gracie, a great master in jiu jitsu.
conduke 1 year ago
wow renzo gracie was in morocco..morocco is the land who attract anyone
le9elawi 1 year ago
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alabina96 1 year ago
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alabina96 1 year ago
Renzo and all of Gracies did not evolve as fighters. Their BJJ alone is not enough to compete against top level guys. Matt Hughes demolished all BJJ pin-pointed opponents such as Renato Verissimo, Royce Gracie, B.J. Penn, Matt Serra, Renzo Gracie, Ricardo Almeida. Renzo should have known that his BJJ skills will not be enough to win. He should have worked on his wrestling and standup, then again he's 43 .. kind of old. Put Renzo against Randy!!!
pcjudosambo 1 year ago
@pcjudosambo matt hughes did not demolish BJ penn, he was gettin beat up until BJ gassed, BJ is a mma fighter not just a BJJ guy and imo will beat hughes in their third fight
ddtopia101 1 year ago
haha the interviewer said at the begining "at the ripe OLD age at 43 years YOUNG"
what a dodo called him old then saved himself by calling him young lol
pacmanpirini 1 year ago
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spencercarla1 1 year ago
when it was coming to the week of the fight renzo knew he wwas going to lose
jollywolly55 1 year ago
anyone know where to get renzo's ufc 112 entrance music?
TheMrpalid 1 year ago
Renzo is the man!!
SexNPancackes 1 year ago
Lol, that rich kid from abuh dabi basically got jiu jitsu to where it is now, he created the world tournaments because he loved the martial art. And I believe he was the son of some king over there or something so he just flew everyone in and now it is every year they hold world championships there i believe.
wingedsoul 1 year ago
poor renzo, got his ass kicked really hard and got embarassed !
kklmjk 1 year ago 3
hell yeah fuck renzo!
eugdog106 1 year ago
@kklmjk
It is probably because the Gracies still think they are the shit even though the martial art keeps evolving so even a Gracie has to train hard now a days.
wingedsoul 1 year ago
if anyone missed this fight or would like to watch it again you can download in HD at ufclivestreams com
ufclivestreams 1 year ago
He asked for a hand up & lost the fight. Fo sho uknow?
superfatttyfatboy 1 year ago
renzo is nothing he is no father he is shit!!
abby161919 1 year ago
Is Renzo Gracie Royce Gracie's brother?
Maloperverso 1 year ago
renzo now is jus a talker...damn he was so damn weak in ufc 112...guhes raped his sorry ass
WielkiPolskiPatriota 1 year ago
If you look at the best strikers in the world, guys who move from kickboxing,thai,sanshou,wkb and other orgs that what happens. Cro crop early in his career was killing people, kid norfi is small for even 135 and was a monster in mma, cung le was strikeforce champ at 185, anderson silva former shoot champion destroy guys who fight on the ground. Yes they all have losses to grapplers/submmision fighters but they all have far more impressive wins.
Kdaddy61987 1 year ago
if you missed UFC 112 OR WRESTLEMANIA
torontops c o m
davidpenn93 1 year ago
u fucked yourself didnt even have enuff heart to stand and fight
leonardjr88 1 year ago
AnGeLOFDeAtH2215 any1 who has jujitsu will kick ur ass show shut the f up
TwistOfReality1 1 year ago
matt hughes the gracie killer for me its the best figther in mma shame the age come for hem i think rodrigo gracie maybe can beat matt but we whait for that and my respects for gracie fans
Masterale7 1 year ago
He needs to check those low kicks and improve a lot his cardio. Hughes didn't kil him because he don't wanted to.
RubInatube 1 year ago
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Some think the Silva fight was interesting or not....YOU have to look at the BIG picture. Hughes was an INSULT, PENN was a blow to your face (in terms of dominance), well...at this point I'm thinking SILVA should win to to keep UFC alive. BEHOLD....Silva wins with his SKILL (which I don't dispute), but seriously, UFC needed that win MORE than Silva. IF you see the whole event, anybody with half a brain would see that it IS RIGGED.
BiGj0ek 1 year ago
renzo is a pussy XD what a bitch he got kicked around by matt hughes who mainly fights on the ground lmao what douchebag
and the gracies both suck no offense to them they r legends but the dont really fight they just do that gay ass jiu jitsu crap
AnGeLOFDeAtH2215 1 year ago
Some think the Silva fight was interesting or not....YOU have to look at the BIG picture. Hughes was an INSULT, PENN was a blow to your face (in terms of dominance), well...at this point I'm thinking SILVA should win to to keep UFC alive. BEHOLD....Silva wins with his SKILL (which I don't dispute), but seriously, UFC needed that win MORE than Silva. IF you see the whole event, anybody with half a brain would see that it IS RIGGED
BiGj0ek 1 year ago
Seems like a real cool dude.....Best of luck to him and Matt as well.....Any time a Gracie steps in the ring watch the fuck out.....
KimahriRonso555 1 year ago
Dana white will throw him out after tonight
cutestalien 1 year ago
LOOOOOOL he got dominated how mny times did he go down in that fight, he must of gotten like 4-5 clean strikes
fragtility 1 year ago
AAAAAAAhahahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
misstreeious 1 year ago
You can Watch Ufc 112 Online just search google for "TheNewsBuzz"
Arlinebpz 1 year ago
Soldier you obviously don't know anything about Renzo don't lump him in with Royce and Royler he is a very different animal.
Justmindless 1 year ago
Hughes will win this easy. I respect the Gracies, but they think all you need is their jiu jitsu... That good ol' American wrasslin' is gonna break him apart! He'll end up like Royce, let's just be honest. This is what's gonna happen: They come out, Matt shoots and takes him down, Matt smears Renzo around the mat for 2 mins, gets mount, pounds his face up, ref pulls Matt off.
soldierinthedust 1 year ago
Wow Renzo is a sharp sharp guy. It's gonna be a good fight tonight!
awwfulwaafffle 1 year ago
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onlinestreamtvdotcom 1 year ago
if they dont have one they can build one in like a week LMAO. so true.
esco42085 1 year ago
go0000ooo0o0o gracie!!
ohitsubob 1 year ago
matt hughes deserves to enter hall of fame
dcasanovax 1 year ago
Renzo Vs Randy !!!! Can't wat...
fsrafols 1 year ago
RENZO....4 the WIN !!!
KneebarBuffet 1 year ago 3
@KneebarBuffet dont you feel like a fucken dumb shit
everygreatpowerfalls 1 year ago
@everygreatpowerfalls don't u feel like a fuckn know it all.
KneebarBuffet 1 year ago
i wanna see the rng girlz whit bikini in abu dhabi hahah
i wanna see the face of arabz
peetism12345 1 year ago 8
@peetism12345 fuck u man what are u thinking, we have that not .but in your contry is a normal thing, go look at your sister or your mother ,im sure that other man fuck her an you are a soon of bitch
melittamomo 1 year ago
@melittamomo
you suck you superstitious dogmatic woman hater
hooah68 1 year ago
I have the up most respect for Renzo, he is such a modest guy and talks nothing but respect. Hope Renzo wins!
saultman 1 year ago 14
@saultman For a guy who disses and even spits on some of his opponents, I'm glad he lost :)
Dmasterman 1 year ago
@saultman
if it hasn't already been said, that's a malapropism, the word is "utmost"
hooah68 1 year ago
@saultman This Guy Spat on someone during a Fight and you have Respect for Him, LOOOOOL
baddamanben09 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
ey renzo shut the fuck up you fucking pussy
amadejan 1 year ago
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yawn....does anyone care about this fight...both these fighters are done. Go retrie somewhere and be done with it...matt is trying to find someone he can beat..well i guess he found someone...i mean Renzo hasn't fought since 2007 and that was against umm (laugh) frank shamrock...wow can't wait..lol.
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Frog0Pusher 1 year ago
Man, Renzo is a real class act. Very, very cool. :-)
sullyb23511 1 year ago
Renzo... 13-6 .... Hughes 43-7.. Renzo loses to the likes of Carlos Newton (though he did avenge it) BJ Penn and Dan Henderson... not awful, Hughes lost to GSP twice, Alves, BJ Penn, Hughes doesn't lose to average guys you know, he loses to ALL STAR fighters... no offense, but Hughes is gonna SMASH Renzo.
Oreo609 1 year ago
@Oreo609 @Oreo609 Ehh there is a problem with your logic there : Henderson is/was a better rated fighter than alves all-around.
So was Sakuraba at the time renzo faught him.
Hughes lost to dennis hallman... TWICE and Carlos newton was higher rated than Hallman. And that Serra decicion was questionable, hughes didnt do anything in that fight
And he didnt lose do gsp the second time, he got seriously smashed.
Idonthinkso7331 1 year ago
@Oreo609 If your going to do "Who they have lost to math" pick out the lesser competition renzo has lost against like Oyama and Tamura. (however they were much heavier than renzo at the time they fought)
I do belive however that Huges has a better record and will probably win.
Idonthinkso7331 1 year ago
this is total bullshit to make Renzo cut all that wgt..is matt not man enough to fight him at a catch wgt..He better watch out because Renzo has alot better stand up than Royce..
ponbass2 1 year ago
bullshit..make matt hughes fight you at a catch wgt of 180
ponbass2 1 year ago
I wish I could have learn BJJ at highschool, for free! geez
slipknotbitches 1 year ago
nice hust 2 smal laggs
dude1man2 1 year ago
Too many people talking and not knowing. I dont care how much you weight or how much you can bechpress. If you are put down by a college wrestler or a Good BJJ practitioner (does not have to be a black belt) you my freind.... are in a world of trouble. Wrestlign technique and power dominates the ground, bjj has too many tools to bring you pain before you even think how are you going to get up again!!
LOWESDOLEO 1 year ago
he looks pretty small hughes may just ground and pound em out ftw
usabreakers 1 year ago
@usabreakers Don't forget that Renzo is a master at BJJ, might help him counter the weight issue... I do think Hughes will win tho, he's got so much skill/experience that it's a hard task to beat him. GSP sure did during their rematch (haha just had to pitch that one in as GSP's my boy)
jackarf1 1 year ago
Renzo is class
MattitudeSupporter 1 year ago
This is gunna be a great fight...Two lengends. I'm going for Hughes but it can go either way.
408Mustangs 1 year ago
its about time renzo fought in the ufc. hope he done his wrestling homework cause im sure matt done his bjj.
mikestylz96 1 year ago
lol! man his accent kills me. Renzo's a legend win or loose.
mikestylz96 1 year ago
i met renzo...he is such a class act
gheemunniept2 1 year ago
7:42 lol
Drizzy123 1 year ago
This Gracie is the only in the whole world that can stop the Spider
limoeras 2 years ago
I bet my dick can shoot further than matt hughe's.
JAGDPANTHER20 2 years ago
Anderson Silva vai atropelar o Demian Maia eo Renzo vai explodir o Hughes vai ser o torneio do ano .
Fabionomaky 2 years ago
no si amigo
ignats18 2 years ago
no si amigo Lo que???
Fabionomaky 2 years ago
no si amigo las tiendas
ignats18 2 years ago
"Kdaddy61987"...
how about i break your neck with my "bjj"
caseygay 2 years ago
You could try but in a real fight bjj is only good for getting your faced stomped on and your head and back of ncked broken.
Kdaddy61987 2 years ago
like UFC 1, 2 and 3?
BOOLsheet 2 years ago
huh?
Kdaddy61987 2 years ago
Kdaddy61987,
It's obvious you don't like BJJ. That's fine. Not everyone will believe in an art proven by a weakling Brazilian. Some prefer to be a ninja. That's cool.
But in a real fight, grappling happens. Whether you like it or not.
BJJ is only one component of a complete fighter, but an important one. Because ground happens, regardless of our intention to keep it standing.
And btw, the kick you saw Renzo do against Oleg is an "up kick". It's taught as a basic self-defense move in BJJ.
mild7p 1 year ago
No he did a kick up, classic van dam kick up in a fight vs a japanese fighter. Also in a "real" fight very few fights ever require grappling. You've ever get in a real fight? The second it goes to the ground people take notice and people jump in or in my case and you try to take my down thats fine cause ill drop and elbow to the back of your neck. I know jui jitsu cause im a fan of all martial arts. I have no problem with bjj but the idea you have to have it or is importance is a bit overrated.
Kdaddy61987 1 year ago
Kdaddy,
I'm not an extremist. Quite frankly I don't care if ppl think BJJ is useless. It's a free world.
But you need to separate fantasy from reality. You are living in a dreamworld if you think your elbow to the neck will stop a grappler.
On the flipside, a grappler ACTIVELY SEEKING ground against multiple attackers is suicide. That said, all MA is deficient here. Weapons/ improvised weapons, disengagement is the order of the day. Grappling is used to escape the clinch/ground.
mild7p 1 year ago
Nope not multiple opponents just me, also hhow many elbows it take bones jones to bloody up hamill, how many of silva elbows it take to take out fryklund,how many knees it took for gomi to take out a gracie, im sorry in a real fight it only takes 1. The mma world has rules on the direction the strike comes from. How many knees it take for frank to make renzo unable to fight, also the back of the head and where the neck connects is one of the most damaging hits to take. You know nothing,
Kdaddy61987 1 year ago
Kdaddy,
you are either a troll or delusional (as in Ashida Kim).
In either case, it is a waste of my time to debate with you. Please check in to your nearest MMA school and challenge them. After all, in a real fight, you'll be able to beat Brock Lesnar right? :) With an elbow to the back of the head. -chuckle-
mild7p 1 year ago
Wow amazing, you probably the worst debater ever simply cause ive done this a few times and other people were much better then you. Tou your point you have to make a comment about me beating brock? How many brocks are there in the world? Its a joke what you bring up and how you cant back anything up. Would i fight brock in a mma contest, why not. Theres a high chance i would lose being when im in shape im around170-185. Also my best chance of winning would be a high kick or an elbow. Take care
Kdaddy61987 1 year ago
lol im a mhuy tie guy but i know the power of BJJ. One day when you face a grappler and he knows what he is doing you will see what will happen to you 1 he will take you to the ground 2 you are his he will do whatever he wants to you unless you have some sort of BJJ behind you not trying to be a dick or start a texing war not like that but think about it.
Jayden225 1 year ago
How many times has a bjj fighter struggle in a mma because the opposing fighter was just stronger or faster? How many times in dream and pride did a bjj fighter go for a take down and miss and ended up getting kicked in the face or stomped. Cro crop broke sakuraba eye socket and cracked open fujitas head when tehy went for the take down. Whats teh number 1 rule when fighting someone? Never take your eyes away from you opponent. Bjj is used less when your opponent is faster or stronger.
Kdaddy61987 1 year ago
kdaddy,
Got your panties in a little bunch when I commented you can't beat Brock. But then again, it seems that it is you who compares yourself to Jones, Silva, Crocop.....
Look, Crocop is a beast. But it does'nt mean that if he can stop fujita's takedown, you can too. You're not Crocop. You are a ninja-sui practitioner (chuckle). Hell, a skinny ass Brazilian would probably look like a D1 champ against you.
No more debate. Put up or shut up. You make a claim of being deadly, prove it.
mild7p 1 year ago
Your a fool, you make stupid comments then i rebute them to you and you comment back with you aeint cro crop, no shit sherlock and im not foughting lesner. What i say is proven and has been used in mma fights and real fights aswell. You make no points other then the fact i took ninja sui and southern style kung fu which you know nothing about. The mere fact you cant comprehend the different scenerios of fighting and hits shows your inexperience and lack of knowledge, try doing something producti
Kdaddy61987 1 year ago
@Kdaddy61987
LOL. Got your ninpo panties in a bunch again?
Ninja please. You living in an Ashida Kim fairyland where grapplers are dismantled with Vandamme kicks and downward elbows.
Newsflash. Ichihara tried downward elbows against a skinny ass weakling Brazilian. Sure did'nt do sheeit.
Don't cite Jones, Gomi etc, because these guys are'nt Ninja-sui guys, they're MMA guys and damn good grapplers too.
If Arnie can bench 400 pounds, does'nt mean u can. Take it and learn, beeyatch.
mild7p 1 year ago
You van dam was a pro fighter right? You know the man benched over 375lbs and weighed around 200. Also ichihara didnt have a high skill level and wasnt in that good of shape. So when you put someone with a high skill level against a person who not in shape, doesnt have a high skill level and is little to boot hes gonna lose. Also i have benched 270,deadlifted 425 and pressed 215 and i weighed 175. Your an idiot and have no examples other then fights between hill billys in wifebeaters.
Kdaddy61987 1 year ago
@Kdaddy61987
Am I getting to you, ninja? -chuckle-
You keep doing the same thing. You give examples of Rampage against Arona... as if Rampage learned how to do that from ninja-sui. Rampage has a wrestling base, moron. Wrestlers are badass. Ninjas, only in movies.
And Ichihara was a daido-juku karate champ. Who's Royce again? In the BJJ and modern MMA world, he is not much and Wallid choked him unconscious.
Face it, your logic is hopeless. Crying over your posters of Vandamme won't help.
mild7p 1 year ago
Seriously your point is when the ufc took any body from the streets to fight, guys who recieved a black belt probably from the katas they learned and your gonna use them as examples? Your a moron, that be like me saying look a cro crop has done to all those bjj,jj, and judo fighters man they did real well taking him down. Or how ricardo arona do against rampage. Also many mma fighters from japan train in the tradional japanese styles on there spar time(ninjasui) dumbass
Kdaddy61987 1 year ago
How many elbows it take jones beat vera(ill give you a hint its, uno)
Kdaddy61987 1 year ago
kdaddy,
you're still hanging on to my dick I see.
What exactly is your argument? That MMA guys beat MMA guys? lol
Manhoef and Jones winning does not validate Ninja-sui. It validates MMA. The last I checked, neither of them did ninja-sui.
Are you tired of getting it pushed in yet? I presume you must be used to it in real life, since you keep coming back for more...
mild7p 1 year ago
Are you stupid? I bring up facts about fighting and all you talk about is ninjasui which besides from the weapon training is karate and jui jitsu. So i conclude that your an idiot and my previous comment was just another note of what i was saying. You've said nothing other then your retarded dribble which consisted of name calling. You cant back anything you say with facts or proven fights when here on utube theres a plethera of chocies to make. So continue going threw life as a moron as you wer
Kdaddy61987 1 year ago
kdaddy,
LOL. Talking to you is just like talking to a histrionic, self-contradicting little girl.
Facts and proven fights? I have given plenty of examples where MMA guys demonstrate the importance of grappling. What have you given me... references to Vandamme and OTHER MMA guys beating MMA guys. lol
As for name calling, you started it buddy, but u cry like a lil bitch once it's back at you.
You have problems accepting harsh reality. That's life, be an idiot and you'll get slapped
mild7p 1 year ago
@Kdaddy61987 I actually got intrigued and read the debate you guys were having. After reading through the ridiculousness, I'm not quite sure what your point is. First you criticize BJJ guys for taking people down. Then you cite Bones Jones...If I'm not mistaken, Jones used a Judo throw to take Vera down immediately and then a minute later put him down with a wrestling takedown.
How come you said if anyone every tried to take you down, you'd ninja elbow them...but then you praise Jones?
Deej1188 1 year ago
No, im saying taking people down is far overrated. Its a useful tool but not a neccessary one and my point with the elbow is that in many fights for higher skilled fighters it only takes 1 hit. In many fights to crushing blow is where you hit them not how many times. In a real fight using bjj could cost you for the simple fact the rules help them. In that same fight vera did a up kick to the face and was penalized. I like watching yuki yoshida and maia work, there awesome but overrated.
Kdaddy61987 1 year ago
@Kdaddy61987 But there lies the paradox. I'm only 5'6. I've been doing Judo for 4 years, and BJJ and Muay Thai for about 2. When a I'm in the dojo, no noob can Ippon or tap me. I can completely dictate what happens regardless of height or strength (98% of the time..heh). But when I'm at Muay Thai and I'm sparring some 6'2 jacked guy who has been to a total of 10 classes, he tags me sometimes.
I'd def take someone down who thought BJJ was overrated. GnP is actually hard when you don't train it.
Deej1188 1 year ago
Thats most likly due to the fact there not very good. I did martial arts and moved on to other things. Guys in my powerlifting group were far more physical and stronger then the guys in the martial art classes, you saying the noobs you faced means nothing. For instance im 5'10 175 lbs at the time, 4 years ago and i benched 270,pressed 215 and deadlifted 425 and though i was strong there were guys in the weight room much stronger then me. These guys you couldnt control.
Kdaddy61987 1 year ago
@Kdaddy61987 You show that you've never trained a grappling art if you think that bodybuilders can walk into a BJJ or Judo class and destroy everyone. Especially in Judo where big guys get tripped up easily. In my BJJ class, I got a meathead in an armbar and he picked me up and slammed me instead of tapping. Since it was completely illegal, our instructor told him to check his ego or not come back. If it were a real fight, I would have just snapped the arm.
Deej1188 1 year ago
if it was a real fight he would of slammed your head into the cement or against a curve or into the wall. Check his ego? You could of broken his arm but he could of killed you, also it illegal at your gym my friend works out in renton where guys who fight for the king of the cage org train. Thats legal there and people do it. Also the bigger he is and the smaller you are the less likely hes satying down whehter or not you tried to break it.
Kdaddy61987 1 year ago
@Kdaddy61987 But the point is that we are trying to learn technique. You want to teach guys to stuff submissions, not try and over power them. At 5'6 150 (fighting at 135), of course every 200 lb guy is going to be able to pick me up and slam me. But what does that prove? Is he going to be able to slam guys his own size?
I still don't get your point. Are you saying I'd be a better fighter if I stopped training MMA and focused all my energy on power lifting?
Deej1188 1 year ago
Wow are you just playing stupid? I never said anything was useless but overrated. 1 you would be better if you added weight and to move up and maintain hand and foot speed. Look at guys like frank shamrock who adds bulk, akono who was better at 185 and mike brown. These guys added bulk to become better fighters. You look at frank mir who has never been good at anything has just now added muscle to all that skill and he still got murdered by a meatbag. Theres no comprimise to raw power or skill.
Kdaddy61987 1 year ago
@Kdaddy61987 @Kdaddy61987 The reason why I don't understand what you're saying is that you're telling people that pretty much the reason MMA was invented is overrated. If it weren't for take downs, subs, and GnP, we could just watch kickboxing and boxing. I am most comfortable using Judo throws on tall guys just because its why I've done the longest. The one time I used it outside, the guy was done after the throw. No need to swing up pick guys up.
Deej1188 1 year ago
Whoa mma has been going on for years! My dad took karate and he saw a mma fight in the 70s when he was in japan. Benny the jet did kickboxing events yet trained in judo. Bruce lee in his movies is put in armbars and traigle chokes, jackie chans movies he has many close up fights and clinch type of work. All these guys made movies with mma type of ideals in the 70s and 80s. Jui jitsu in no fashion created mma, martial arts has been around since the beginning of man, its ignorant that you say that
Kdaddy61987 1 year ago
@Kdaddy61987 You know what I mean so don't be a dick. Sure, the Greeks had Pankration events and there have been mixed style fights since before recorded history. But were grapplers able to make a living practicing their sport in the 70s besides hoping to be in movies or teaching? When I say "invented" (bad verb), I mean popular MMA where fans fuel their living.
Deej1188 1 year ago
135? thats way to small, You have to move up, look at kid norfi. He is one of the best skill fighters on the planet but he loses fight just cause hes to small. You should add at least 10lbs of muscle preferably 15 but i dont know if you could enter comps at 150. You want to be able to deadlift 350 and bench around 225 at 145. Even with that you be tiny and at no point could you beat a bigger guy. Ive picked up guys who have tried to armbar me at 160, bigger dude could put power behind it.
Kdaddy61987 1 year ago
@Kdaddy61987 What am I supposed to do? I didn't wrestle seriously in high school so I wasn't big on cutting weight. I fought at 145 for my first fight and the guy I was fighting was 6'1. I was 19 (I'm 21 now) and I was terrified. I go absolutely destroyed in that fight.
For my big lifts, I do the 5 sets of 5 program. 195 for bench, 290 for deads, 155 for clean and press, and 285 for squats. The rest of my training is mostly medicine ball and plyo stuff...and actual MMA. Any tips oh wise one?
Deej1188 1 year ago
What are you looking for? Question, your fighting in a mma org or atleast attempting too and your a small guy so how are you arguing what i have said when you yourself is proof of it? You train and unless you are gonna say your skill level isnt very high, you should of won these fights with skill. You lose fights because of loss of mass and height. I couldnt tell you what to do cause i simply am a different person stature wise. Where you debating me or just looking to talk smack on the internet?
Kdaddy61987 1 year ago
@Kdaddy61987 Everyone knows that size and height are factors in fighting. But you said taking people down is overrated. You told that guy that if anyone ever tried to do it to you, they'd get an elbow to the neck. It just pressed my buttons as a Judo practitioner and he fact that so many MMA fighters have jobs because of their ability to take people down.
My skill level ISN'T very high. That big dude I lost to was a BJJ purple belt.
Deej1188 1 year ago
@Kdaddy61987 You accuse ME of smack talking? You come to a video interview of Renzo Gracie and say that ground fighting is overrated. If that isn't trolling, I don't know what is.
You're right, MMA fights ARE set up to control outcomes. People want to see skill. If they didn't, we could just watch two meatheads fight for a lot cheaper.
I just don't like how you spin everything so muscle trumps skill. We've seen smaller fighters trump big guys lots of times.
Deej1188 1 year ago
Once again you act to quickly, i do believe grappling and the wrestling aspect of fighting is overrated but it a pc of it. Sourd of like you think that weight lifting isnt as important. I like great grapplers who can control there abilitys. the gracies are good not great. Guys like genki sudo,yuki yoshida,sakuraba maia are outstanding submission artist and its there bread and butter but there strength becomes a weakness. To me its just a fact of life not hating or putting it down.
Kdaddy61987 1 year ago
@Kdaddy61987 Of course I think weight lifting is important. I take my weight training seriously. As does every professional fighter.
I am a big fan of Yoshida as well. Did he get overwhelmed by size and strength by Rumble Johnson who cut from 225 and didn't make weight? sure. But its not like it was just overwhelming force. Rumble Johnson had a decent wrestling career.
Deej1188 1 year ago
See another thing is you keep talking about these guys other skills, yes they have them in the bag but how do they win fights. Yoshida is so small that johnson and koscheck beat them with just pure size. Now koscheck took johnson to the ground but he didnt against yoshida and thats what seperates the fights. Skill level is very important but if other guys had the size they would be better. Having all the tools is good but you have to be a great stand up fighter for all the reasons ive said.
Kdaddy61987 1 year ago
@Kdaddy61987 That doesn't mean that takedowns are overrated though. That just means that size is important in fighting also. Look at the Nate Diaz fight. I thought him moving up to 170 would mean he would show up jacked. He didn't. He looked as skinny as ever. Markham showed up 7lbs overweight and looked jacked out of his mind. What did Diaz use to end up TKOing him? Superior grappling to wear him down and then pound him out w/ a ton of weak but effective punches.
Deej1188 1 year ago
They didnt grapple, it was all on the feet. Also i think marham was originally a 185 fighter and hasnt fought for over a year so you dont want to get to much into it. Sourd of like forrest vs shogun when shogun needed 2 knee surgeries or the guy who just beat okami. Okami just came off of knee surgery and a year before that he broke his hand so its hard to say things like that when guys arent at there best and rusty. Also thats my point diaz a good grappler fought it on his feet.
Kdaddy61987 1 year ago
But you neglect the fact that Diaz had him in that body lock while he had his back. He rolled him over several times and totally controlled him. It wasn't all on the feet. Less than 2 minutes into the fight it was on the ground and never left.
Deej1188 1 year ago
Agreed thats what a good ground game does but would the fight ended any diferently if he let markum stand up? LEts say he just walks away and says lets keep it on the feet, would the result been any different? Sometimes you just have the guys number, i like to example the cro crop vs yoshida and mir vs nog where they didnt go to the ground at all and just dominated the fight. Diaz dominated the fight in all facets doesnt change the fact he was gonna win.
Kdaddy61987 1 year ago
@Kdaddy61987 What...who knows what would happen if Diaz decided to stand and bang with him. Why give a guy who is a KO artist a chance to do the deed when you are obviously the better grappler. I don't think Diaz has TKOed anyone in like 5 years. That's what he does...takes people down.
Its like GSP. He takes people down and eliminates the possibility of getting Matt Serra'ed again.
Deej1188 1 year ago
Once again were back at the start, gps proably the best wreslter p4p and what is his weakness? A good striker, guys who will hit him and hard. He almost lost the first fight to penn cause bjs hand speed and he was overwhelmed with serra power. Gsp is not a great striker but hes a awesome wreslter and you look at his last fight(him and fitch are starting to bore me) they are great at what they do but will lost to a better striker. Striking<grappling,wreslting,bjj,judo,akido,sambo, and all others
Kdaddy61987 1 year ago
But Hardy's striking is arguably his strongest asset. How can you hit someone if you are on your back the whole time? That's the same thing for me. I don't want some football meathead to swing at me with bad form and possibly KO me because he is a power lifter.
Deej1188 1 year ago
Really hardy lost by decision. The fight lasted 25 minutes which would only happen in a mma ring. Also no hardy is not a great striker thats why he doesnt have many wins by ko.
Kdaddy61987 1 year ago
Just by chance you see the silva vs maia fight? I love maia ground game but to me that is what happens when the best fighters in thw world do to people who focus more on the ground game. Silva avoided takedowns and that was it, gsp had hardy down the entire fight yet didnt leave a mark on hardy. Silva made a statement by saying ufc bring in some good fighters. The ufc let go dan henderson and didnt sign melvin mahnhoef who to me would give silva the most problems.
Kdaddy61987 1 year ago
@Kdaddy61987 That fight does nothing at all to prove your point. There is really no one at middle weight to challenge Silva. Maia stepping in for an injured Belfort is exactly that.
Silva stuffs takedowns and subs so well because he is a BJJ and Judo black belt. So its not like he agrees with you that takedowns are over rated. He has been training it for years.
And if I'm not mistaken, you're the guy who said he could out wrestle D-1 wrestlers because you lift weights.
GTFO kid.
Deej1188 1 year ago
Anyone can learn how to wreslt, look at gsp. He beat how many former all american college wreslters and he didnt take wrestling seriously till he got in mma? Also this is exactly my point maia is arguably the best submission artist in the wolrd right now and he couldnt get it to the ground which makes it overrated. Just simple logic, also if i got in shape whos to say i couldnt beat a guy at wrestling in my own weight class? How many bjj fighters does silva need to embarress?
Kdaddy61987 1 year ago
@Kdaddy61987 You can't cite GSP as a reason why you think YOU can out wrestle D-1 wrestlers because you are a power lifter. The man is a freak. Jon Jones is a Greco guy. But he learns Judo throws from watching videos. That doesn't mean "anyone can learn" to do it. It just shows how amazing these guys are.
While Maia is a thoroughbred ADCC champ, Silva is still a blackbelt in both Judo and BJJ. You can't call Maia's grappling overrated when he is trying to take down those credentials.
Deej1188 1 year ago
Really takase did pretty easy as well as okami. Heres the thing you just named 2 guys who are out of the norm murdering former wrestlers, guess what theres thousands of guys who walk in there and beat up guys who have the "credentials" machida got his brown belt in bjj before he fought ortiz and nearly got submitted twice. Fitch recieved a bb in gorilla bjj and yet he couldnt submit a pillow. Those mean nothing.
Kdaddy61987 1 year ago
@Kdaddy61987 Takase is known to be a great jits guy. His MMA skills don't measure up. Okami got knocked out by an illegal kick.
I am fortunate to have trained w/ Jon Jones in central NY before he moved his training camps to Greg Jackson's. He was a Jr college national champion and would have went to wrestle a Iowa if the UFC didn't pick him up.
Grappling credentials mean nothing? How many times has Machida actually been subed? Fitch?
Do you really think Beach muscles > JJ black belts?
Deej1188 1 year ago
Okami got silva to the ground is my point, how did he get him there as oppose to maia, simply being bigger and stronger. Takase is a amazing jj guy but what has it done for his fighting career? Hes lost to bigger stronger guys he couldnt get down. Silva isnt a super strong guy which is why hes been taken to the ground but only to those who physically can. Also you act as if general knowlegde is something these wreslters wouldnt have. Whos mirs weight lifting coach?
Kdaddy61987 1 year ago
@Kdaddy61987 He did it the same way that Hendo did. Okami (while a participant at ADCC) has a wrestling style. Leites and Maia aren't Jits guys who think lifting isn't important. Takedowns in BJJ are nowhere near as emphasized as they are in wrestling or Judo.
Okami is enormous. Marquardt accidentally roided back in the day. Sonnen beat both of them. Did he do that by being bigger and stronger?
What? Wrestlers have general knowledge, you do not.
Strongman Mark Philippi. whats you point?
Deej1188 1 year ago
Dude sonnen beat okami after how long of a lay off? He needed surgery to fix his knee so saying sonnen beat him is nothing to brag about. Also my point with mir is bodybuilders know weightlifting and muscles better then other people. Mir needed someone to increase cardio and strength without taking a big hit to his endurance. Who he get a pro meatbag. Now about wrestling, go watch bully beatdown with the russian bodybuilder vs the pro mma fighter. See how it turns out.
Kdaddy61987 1 year ago
@Kdaddy61987 Okami had 6 months to rehab from his injury. What about Marquardt? The man roided.
Mir went and got top of the line weight lifting and packed on 15lbs of solid muscle. So your argument to not focus on taking the fight to the ground and "power lift" instead is stupid. Mir got beat on his feet.
If you think the Russian body builder had no grappling experience then you are blind. Did you see his lightning fast sprawl and his ability to hold half guard for dear life?
Deej1188 1 year ago
The mir fight, he has never been good at anything really but him adding the weight makes him better. You can tell hes a better fighter but that doesnt make him a great fighter, aslo where he lose on his feet to a bigger stronger fighter. Also the things the russian dude did is basic stuff which anyone could do if they just practiced for and hour. Yes he had no grappling experience, its obvious.
Kdaddy61987 1 year ago
@Kdaddy61987 Saying you can learn to wrestle in an hour is INSANE. I don't understand why this is so hard to understand. Of course everything looks easy on TV. It looks basic because it is a simple move...but actually putting it into practice is whole different situation. I can't believe you still take wrestling so lightly.
Mir is a BJJ black belt. He has subed lots of opponents. But all the weight lifting still didn't save him on his feet. That's my point.
Deej1188 1 year ago
The ability to counter someone else does mean they have experience. He lifts and and understands to get out of the way and functions of bodycontrol, you ever push 1 1/2 times your own weight above your head? You have to get low and guess what thats a sytem in avoiding the takedown. Go look up wsm wrestling matches some of them bad some of them good. It depends on the person and skill level but most of them have no ma experience.
Kdaddy61987 1 year ago
@Kdaddy61987 There are a lot of absolutely moronic people on youtube but you are by far the most ridiculous. Of course weight lifting is good for sports. Nearly all athletes lift. But saying you can sprawl, shoot a double leg, or reverse a takedown because you do power clean and presses is the stupidest thing I've ever heard.
Barbells don't use technique to throw or pin you.
Why don't you practice for an hour and then go wrestle a D1 wrestler.
What the hell is wrong w/ you?
Deej1188 1 year ago
@Kdaddy61987 Also, you must be home schooled or live in some kind of bubble. You do realize that HUGE wrestlers cut to make 149. If you stayed at 200, I'm pretty sure you would die.
A while ago, some videos were posted of Arizona State's wrestling conditioning workouts. If you think that you can do what they do and if "anyone can learn how to wrestle", I fully expect you to get a full ride to wrestle division one. Otherwise, grow up. What are you...like 14?
Deej1188 1 year ago
@Kdaddy61987 comming from someone who used to wrestle, i can honestly tell you that wrestling is more physically demanding than any other apect of mma and its not nearly as simple as you may think. Not everyone has what it takes to wrestle
cheesepufff 1 year ago
Thats not what im saying, everything comes with a certain skill set and persons own personel strength and weaknesses. All im saying is that wrestling/submission are overrated compared to the stand up aspect of fighting. Am i saying that im a great wrestler no, could i be maybe. Just saying if im stronger,faster and mopre athletic then you i have a fair shot at beating you, not because of skill but because of mass and athleticsm
Kdaddy61987 1 year ago
Ill give an example, roy nelson cuts how much weight? Hes a great wrestler and bjj guy. His mass is a asset and his skills make him a really unique fighter. Gsp natural abilitys made him a amazing wreslter. He just has the ability to overwhelm you. I powerlift and if i was simply stonger then you and just as athletic i would be a tough out for someone forcing me aginst my will.
Kdaddy61987 1 year ago
@Kdaddy61987 well the thing is that in a few and i stress that just a few instances the difference in strength may come in handy but for the most part it really doesnt help too much and im telling you from experience, ive wrestled stronger guys and ive wrestled weaker guys. The reason BJJ and wrestling is so important is that fights usually end on the floor. btw is it just me or was this ufc rigged most the fights looked fake?
cheesepufff 1 year ago
Really fake? these guys go broke money wise and lose limbs for the pure entertainment? Shogun needed to 2 knee surgeries and had a broken arm, okami knee surgery broken hand, does wana silva last 6 kos look fake? Also most fights go to the floor depending on what? The stonger fighter choosing to go to the ground, cro crop never fought on the ground much, manhoef never fights on the ground.
Kdaddy61987 1 year ago
@Kdaddy61987 UFC 112 looked fake , on the matt and renzo fight it looked set up so did it look set up on bj's fight. That what i meant, And yea most fights end up on the floor period, so dont try to be a smart ass, whether its from a take down or getting knocked down by a strike most fights in ufc, zuffa, the street will end up on the floor and thats a fact
cheesepufff 1 year ago
What are you talking about? Of course someone in a fight always goes down to the ground but heres the difference in pride going to the ground was a bad thing alot of times for fighters. Guys like melvin manhoef would have 2-3 less losses if he was allowed to stomp which in a term would be more like an actual fight. Cro crop broke sakuraba and fugitas face when they tried to take it down. Gomi nearly broke open gracies head when he tried to take it down. Rules change the aspect of fighting.
Kdaddy61987 1 year ago
@Kdaddy61987 Your right
cheesepufff 1 year ago