Saddleback Church Civil Forum - Obama & McCain 5 of 17

[guitardrummer87]

Sorry Mr. Obama, but if that question is above your pay grade, then so is the job that decides the answer.

[sararee52207]

Obama is right that we need to reduce the amount of unwanted pregnancies but aren't we doing that by handing out condoms to kids and giving free prenatal care to those who need it. Lets face it Abortion is an easy way out and i don't think some GIRLS think about the lasting emotional damage its take on someone. And why is that? is that because deep down they really know they've killed another human being?...something to think about.

[RDurk4]

When is he going to answer the actual question?

[reitju01]

life0is0just0a0ride you are so naive. Are you a developmental biologist? Do you have any scientific proof for your statement that a child is an embryo before 11 weeks? I can guarantee that you can not come up with any definitive proof for your statement.

[johnone17]

this dude is a crock and a liar! way to (try to) dodge the question.... and he is supposed to be a christian? yeah right!

[life0is0just0a0ride]

he didnt dodge the question here said he was pro-choice and then just went on to explain his view. you should try listen

[MeredithStephanie]

Abortion=Murder

PERIOD.

I have not met one person that has said "" IM so happy i had an abortion!!! it was awesome! I feel so free"

[life0is0just0a0ride]

abortion isnt murder dumbass. Murder is defined as "illegal killing with malice aforethought." Abortion fails this definition for two reasons. First, abortion is not illegal, and second, there is no evidence to suggest that expecting mothers feel malice towards their own flesh and blood.

[MeredithStephanie]

That is the dictionary definition.. but I am going by Biblical definition..... which is... unless your in a war and fighting for your country ( or people group ) .... or unless your defending yourself or someone else... if you kill someone for a selfish reason ( and killing a baby because you were not smart and just decide you don't want one is a very selfish reason) then it is murder.....

[life0is0just0a0ride]

plus we dont live in old times, god's word isn't law. if god's word was law there would be a war everyday. not everyone believes in your unlogical answer "god". also hearing that definition makes me think god is a fascist. "unless fighting for your country" when did god have a country or group of people. you american god worshiper's should really wake up and look at the world, people aren't that special, there's 6.7 BILLION people and you's think were all special. i'm blown away by the stupity.

[MeredithStephanie]

OKay its an "embryo" ... that doesn't change anything... when the sperm meets the egg and starts to form... it becomes a human life...thats all im trying to say..whatever the ""name"" for it is doesn't matter and doesn't determine whether its right to kill the child or not...

[MeredithStephanie]

Also God's word doesn't apply to just the ""old times"" you are talking about.. His Word is very much alive today.... Just look at the constitution our country was based on..... and all the missionaries going to reach the lost in other countries... and all the underground curches in China... that risk their lives every day just to read the Word of God and have a relationship with HIm., and then share it with anyone they meet...

[MeredithStephanie]

And I know not everyone believes in God... and that breaks my heart... But I don't judge you or hate you for it...And God is not Fascist... God created the world ... there for everyone and everything is ultimatly under his control.....but there are plenty of examples from the old testiment where God's chosen people ( the Isrealites) where in war and God helped them in miracalous ( sp) ways.....and GOd loves everysingle person.... no matter how many there are....

[MeredithStephanie]

even you... even if you don't want to accept it.. GOd loves you and has a plan for YOUR life and desprately (sp) wants you to have a relationship with him.... but he isn't a dictator and he isn't going to make you worship him.... But God chooses to reveal himself in everything... through His word and nature and music and through his people ..... and im sorry you think its stupidity....

[theguyfromaustralia]

You actually have to know the context and why it happened before you can make an honest critique of the Bible. People like you pick verses out of context and make straw man arguments about Christianity.

[life0is0just0a0ride]

when did i pick a verse? i used what meredith said and on this subjuct of knowing the context. i've actully read the bible when i was a teenager, old and new testament.

[theguyfromaustralia]

If you have read what I wrote PROPERLY you would have noticed I said "People like you pick verses out of context and make straw man arguments about Christianity."

You were referring to the times of Joshua and Judges, I know what you had in mind, it's a common atheist argument. I don't think it's even worthy of having that title...more like a school kid understanding.

[life0is0just0a0ride]

define people like me. is that people who dont believe your story of god. dude im done talking with you all you have is a delusion but because millions of people believe it, we call it religion. i think even if there was/is a god i bet he likes me more than you. im using my brain to question your just believing and insulting anyone who questions you. gd luck with your belief.

p.s again didnt read what i said i took what meredith said. not scripture's

[theguyfromaustralia]

Oh I'm "just believing" ? Are you implying I don't know how to think for myself? You are also in error, one can believe in God but not be in a religion 'deists' are one exxample.

Sir I suggest you brush up on your terms before you shoot off at the mouth with kindergarten assertions.

I'm glad you find my words insulting, perhaps being challenged isn't your thing. Your pride will be the death of you.

[life0is0just0a0ride]

your not challenging me, far from it, im bored with your over defensive claims. faith in the bible is the only prove you have in believing in god.(which isn't actual prove)

faith is belief.

if you have other scientific evidence please show it and i'll happily look at it. i live by searching for answers and if theres evidence then its true. there is no evidence there is a god. if there was everyone would also believe.

p.s insulting someone isnt challenging them in an intellect way.

[sararee52207]

you should read "The Case For Christ" by Lee Strobel. He did not believe in God and set out to prove that God doesn't exist. What he found is interesting if you really want scientific proof.

[life0is0just0a0ride]

Lee Strobel must not be a very good scientist. we in science don't try to disprove non-existence it's impossible. did Lee Strobel try to disprove fairies and trolls to? this may sound insulting but it's not im being serious. you cant prove something does not exist its unlogical. we scientist's try to look for answers sadly the answers at this time dont lead to a deity they lead to evolution. has a scientist if i could prove a god's existence i'd become a very famous scientist sadly i cant.

[life0is0just0a0ride]

has Lee Strobel had any of his work Peer-reviewed and which science journal is he part of.

[life0is0just0a0ride]

sorry forget it, i just researched him. he's a journalist and has a law degree. not a scientist so no wonder he isnt a good scientist.

[sararee52207]

i prayed for you today.

[sararee52207]

I prayed for you today, hope it's blessed.

[life0is0just0a0ride]

if you believe in a god then your believing the people who told the story. religion creates gods. you my believe in a god and not be in a not practising that religion. but that religon are the one's telling the story so you obviously indirectly believe that religion. .

[life0is0just0a0ride]

typing error on second sentence

*you may believe in a god and not be practising that religion.*

[clemstain]

hey you know what, I love you and so does Jesus Christ. He died for us so that we could have life.

[life0is0just0a0ride]

thanks for the love and im sure jesus was an amazing man, i just doubt he was anymore than a mortal man. i think Constantine was the guy who gave jesus his big break. but i dont want to get into this, you sound like you enjoy your faith so lets leave it here. thanks for all the love and i hope you live a happy life.

[converse02]

I think Jesus was probably an ordinary man who was turned into a legend, let King Arthur. There are too many contradictory accounts of him in the Bible.

[theguyfromaustralia]

Where's the contradictory accounts? Are you saying Theologians with Ph.D's are too stupid to miss them? Give me a break.

[sararee52207]

i disagree

[converse02]

"Sir I suggest you brush up on your terms before you shoot off at the mouth with kindergarten assertions. I'm glad you find my words insulting..."

Feel the Christian love. NOT!

[theguyfromaustralia]

If we were more like Jesus then you would hate us more. Jesus didn't take crap from anyone. He aint the robe wearing long haired man smelling like hand cream you probably think he is.

[fullofwonder123]

Amen to that! He actually destroyed a synagogue becuase he believed that the preists were taking advantage of the people they served. Jesus had a voilent streak, but when you are dealing with the worst of humanity constantly...who wouldn't?

[MeredithStephanie]

..So when a baby is partly born and they stab it in the neck so that it will die and they throw it away... im sorry if i count that as murder.... or when they stick a tube up a mothers butt and suck the babys body parts out till it dies... im sorry if i call that murder.... what do you call it...

[life0is0just0a0ride]

i call it you not having a clue what your talking about. up to week 11 it's an EMBYRO not a baby or even a fetus yet. another thing if killing an unborn child is murder then isnt god himself causing murder by his own definition in Miscarriage

[sararee52207]

We all know that it takes a little faith to believe in something you haven't seen. I'll be praying for God to receal himself to you have a nice life.

[stabnore]

Above my pay-grade?

"Pay-grade" is a term referring to military rank. President is the HIGHEST pay grade.

So, if you are running for president you can't hide behind that excuse. If you became President, when would you think life begins Mr. Obama?

[jjmcoates]

Obama, Abortion rates have fallen since Bush has been in office and since republicans started passing pro life laws around the USA.

The Guttmacher Institute, reports a more than 25% decline from 1990 to 2005 in the abortion rate, with the number of abortions down 9% since the year 2000 and down to the levels of 30 years ago.

[adknerr]

"Don't have to go longer on that one.", says the moderator. What a wonderful way to let McCain ease out of explaining why he has his stance.

Obama at least started rolling down his philosophy and brought up the fringe rape/incest cases which many people find important to know.

This entire 'debate'/'discussion' is a complete scam. The moderator obviously likes McCain and let's him get away with consisitantly not answering questions fully and instead allowing his stories and stumps.

-Drew

[soloman81]

It should be an issue of when personhood begins, not when human life begins. I'm not morally obligated to save the thousands of skin cells that die in my body. Are my skin cells human life? Yes. Are they people? No. However, late term abortions are wrong. I am morally obligated to save the life of a medically viable fetus that has it's own organs and potential ability to feel pain. A joined sperm and egg, however, is not a person.

[schilzy1]

I agree, late term abortions are wrong. I disagree with the fact that your skin cells are nothing more than just cells. For example, skin cancer the destruction of your skin cells left untreated will eventually kill you.Your skin cells in conjuction with other cells in your body give you life. An embryo is nothing more than multiple cells which will eventually develop into an infant. Are we not morally obligated to protect those cells,just as we are obligated to protect our own living cells?

[soloman81]

I didn't say they are nothing more than cells. I said although it is human life, they are not people. So, no we aren't obligated to protect our own living cells. Did you know three-hundred-million cells die in the human body every minute? That is normal and healthy. What is important is human sufferning, not cell tissue.

[jjmcoates]

Obama, Abortion rates have fallen since Bush has been in office and since republicans started passing pro life laws around the USA.

The Guttmacher Institute, reports a more than 25% decline from 1990 to 2005 in the abortion rate, with the number of abortions down 9% since the year 2000 and down to the levels of 30 years ago.

[smackalady]

Wheres the theory to back up any abortion rates.....A republican gets elected and sends soldiers off to kill and die, and somehow the abortion rate drops?

[smackalady]

Life began billions of years ago.

[uberchrist33]

Why is abortion a horrid act, a murder, a killing: only in the cases excluding incest or rape? Why do those two aspects negate the horrid, murder, killing aspect of the procedure? I'm totally lost on that issue. If it's a life: it a life. It's that simple. If you are pro-life, the ends do justify the means. If you are truly pro-life, & believe that life begins at the moment of conception, it shouldn't matter how that child is conceived.

[OMRivera1]

Why would you want to reduce the amount of abortions...OBVIOUSLY BECAUSE ABORTION IS A HORRID ACT. YOUR STATING IT THERE!

[tidusquall10x]

This crowd is rediculous

[chrhlnd]

Obama basically said its up to the women to decide. Trying to force people to not have abortions is just going to make a new lower class and get women killed.

[hypergirl099]

The fact that McCain knows where he stands on issues vs. Obama who wants to offend no one lest he lose a vote certainly stood out. Now we hear the "sour grapes" cries - "McCain was privy to what Obama said before he came on stage". Could that be because they had no problem understanding where McCain stands on issues?? and are lost in Obama's "lawyer" gibberish??

[jesseakers]

OK, no religous speech needed- if life does not begin at conception, then when does it begin? For all pro-choicers...

[OmniNorth]

Obama says that women don't get abortions casually:

That doesn't matter. The baby dies whether the killing mother felt casual about it or not. That's reality.

Killing a pre-born baby un-casually is no less wrong and in need of being stopped.

[Thyme2dream]

and as far as I know, pre-meditated murder is a more serious crime.

[filipinohotdog435]

Obama:  blah, blah, blah, I am going to raise taxes for programs.

[jojopuff05]

Obama: Uh um um I uh um....

McCain: At the moment of conception *applause*

Yet another reason why I won't be voting for Obama!!

[mb053085]

You do know that McCain opposing abortions to the extent of moving from being pro choice to being pro life, is a recent decision. Obama is merely saying that he does not feel he/ or the government should make that decision for a woman.

[FellowPatriot]

McCain's response hits right on the nail...notice the applause!