Pro Taekwondo, Dong Lee vs Brian McCutcheon (1997) - Parte 1 -

[83ishgirl]

The "Veteran Voice of the Octagon!" Nice. Good TKD

[Laikmuay]

Ah the announcer Bruce Buffer well before he went to UFC lol

[La77a]

....and when ITF fighters (who tend to experiment beyond their own discipline a bit more) fight WTF fighters full contact with head punches, they usually win. If you doubt this check out Ukranian, Moldavian, Russian and Polish YT TKD postings for this proof. The main point i'm making is that singular elitism within a martial art or sport in the 21st century is the death knell for that art. If one keeps placing ones head in the sand then that butt sure makes a great target for some kicking.

[La77a]

...one can see the high guard, and more of an application to their body punches, as in Kyokushinkai (which of course was the idea). The WTF (Kukkiwon) has watered it down into what you see today. Old School WTF fighters could quite happily step onto a mat with a Kyokushinkai fighter and if not win, then certainly not look so out of their depth. Today that would not be the case. WTF fighters tend to fight other WTF fighters only in WTF sanctioned competitions...

[La77a]

This is why no one can deny the pedigree of Muay Thai in the ring. It's a pure test of an individuals physical and mental resilience. My personal preference (in TKD) has to be ITF, because even with the semi-contact format, it does give it's fighters a relative credence amongst their martial arts peers and a LOT of ITF stylists have successfully moved into kickboxing and MMA as a natural progression of their cross training. Full respect however to all TKD stylists. Check out old WTF footage...

[La77a]

The continuing dispute between ITF and WTF practitioners is highly tedious. WTF TKD has the olympics to thank for its success otherwise it would have probably been superceded by the ITF and their burgeoning full contact styles currently enjoyed in Eastern Europe and Russia. Without a full contact competition in its repertoire, a martial sport (let's be clear about the difference here) cannot say it can wholly test its athletes in controlled combat.

[15tgore]

Now THIS is martial arts! I've been at this for seven years, I can't do some of the stuff they do!

[OfficialStalkr]

wtf is so lame and boring

[SuperTalb1994]

good fight

[scorpionpark7]

@SuperTalb1994 I wanted to say the same thing.. :)

[saijin91903]

are there any Profesional Taekwondo match nowadays?

[scorpionpark7]

@saijin91903 try another movie.. :p

[garra98]

@saijin91903 I doubt it. Most are now Olympic Sparring

[maskedrider24]

Weak

[TheCharo777]

this is not dong lee

[scarred10]

its just wtf crap without the pads

[ATACXGYMTAEKWONDO]

@scarred10 Have you ever sparred with a WTF Olympian? It's a truly different experience from just watching these guys on video or live.You realize that these guys are incredible.They're OLYMPIANS and that ain't by accident.These guys knock out other Olympians.They'll slaughter regular guys and sub-Olympic caliber athletes.I've sparred a few WTF Olympians and they blew me off the mat at first.I had to become an Olympic caliber strategist and tactician.

[scarred10]

@ATACXGYMTAEKWONDO ive never sparred wtf rules because they are for pussies,olympian or otherwise,its so specific a set of skills that have no transfer to self defense or kickboxing so id have no respect for it.

[apocalypticafied]

@scarred10 As a practitioner of both WTF style tkd and traditional tkd, I can see your confusion. I agree that wtf tkd is useless in the real world, but hey, IT'S A SPORT. Now traditional tkd is extremely effective in self defense (including against kickboxing or other kinds of martial arts) and as a result is still used in the korean military for hand to hand combat self defense.

[scarred10]

@apocalypticafied theres virtually no unarmed combat in modern war so its rarely if ever tested.In self defense there are no martial arts,the attackers are untrained,bigger,stronger,more agressive.The itf is as traditional as it gets,ive done it for 13 yrs at the highest level,its shite,theres no confusion.Muay thai ,boxing,wrestling are sports,they re extremely useful in a real situation because the training is full contact and only the tough stick at it.

[Chomolongma93]

@scarred10 kickboxing is for pussies that are scared to fight so they go to kickboxing to learn how to bully others.But you do have respect for bjj?yeah right,try using bjj on street and you'll end stomped and end with few broken fingers,at least tkd learns you how to kick good,while bjj is only effective in mma and bjj matches.And kickboxers are strong because they are all on steroids and other weird chemistry,same is for mma,kyokushin,wrestling,judo,m­uay thai and pro boxers.continues:

[scarred10]

@Chomolongma93 if yo join a full contact school you wont be bullying anyone,youll be getting whupped for a good year until you get comfortable.Ive done bjj for 15 yrs,ie used it in mma fights and self defense,id never go to the ground against more than 1 person,its incredibly efffective in 1 on situation.Wrestling and judo are tested since theyre olympic,striking sports dont benefit much from roids as theres little strength involved

[Chomolongma93]

@scarred10 my ass effective,i once had fight with my friend it doesn't matter,he trains bjj for like 10 years,i took him to the ground like nothing(he probably let me do that),i was so pissed i started punching him,and he grabbed me trying to do armbar,i simply twisted one of his fingers and beated the shit out of him.every bjj guy i know uses nothing of bjj on street,because it's dumb and innefective,you would just end stomped.bjj is by far the least effective art on street.

[scarred10]

@Chomolongma93 correct me if im wrong but you sound like a teenager,in which case youve been alive far shorter than ive been practising combat sports.10 yrs bjj ,hes an expert and nobody outside another grappler is going to be able for him even if he only did sport bjj.No adult uses any martial arts on the street because adults with any brains dont fight outside sport,they may defend themselves once or twice in their entire lives.Grappling isnt effective outside 1 on 1 situations obviously.

[Chomolongma93]

@scarred10 you aren't wrong,i am a teenager.but from small personal experience and from tellings of other people in martial arts,but not justany people,but from successful competitors bjj is very ineffective on street.In my opinion combination between boxing and wrestling or maybe judo is best for life situations,every art is good when you train it long and well enough,i am not saying bjj is innefective,i am more like saying that it's most difficult to use on street.that's just my opinion.

[scarred10]

@Chomolongma93 man ,you cant have a valid opinion about any subject at your age,you cannot have the experience of training and competing for yrs in different styles.BJJ and judo are virtually identical except bjj adresses self defense and emphasises the ground.Personally I reckon boxing and wrestling but neither train for self defense so youd need to adapt them and train accordingly.

[Chomolongma93]

@scarred10 they are not the same,in judo you only have few seconds on ground to pull a submission,you should watch human weapon judo,it shows you well,it's much more about takedowns than about ground grappling on ground,it's simply much different.But judokas usually train bjj as a side sport,so they can learn ground grapple,in similar way some kickboxers,and almost all kyokushin fighters go to wtf tkd to improve kicks,since tkd has perfect techniques for higher kicks.continues:

[scarred10]

@Chomolongma93 i hardly have to watch a video of something ive been practising as long as youve been alive.Very few judokas do bjj,never at elite level,its more common in the usa among non elite players,most judo schools do plenty groundwork but comps discourage it.I dont think youve ever actually trained for any length of time in judo or bjj,what you read on the net isnt reliable.

[Chomolongma93]

@scarred10 i didn't say that they compete at bjj,i said they go to gym to train it,to get some of ground work.judo in usa is very weak,i never trained in judo or bjj,but i am fan of most martial arts.

[scarred10]

@Chomolongma93 They dont train it either,elite judokas do nothing but judo because its so specific these days.The usa is the mecca of bjj outside brazil,thats where youll find some recreational judoka train bjj.

[Chomolongma93]

@scarred10 i only say from what i've heard from from other succesful competitors from different styles,all telling me the same ''what's you gonna do,lie on the ground?get yourself allowed to be stomped,with shoes and all that,and finger twisting,one kick to the head or ribs with a shoe and of you go,it's pointless''.and from little personal experience.But i agree that wtf is just a sport,but a sport where tkd fighters are best at,buakaw por pramuk,albert kraus continues:

[scarred10]

@Chomolongma93 forget about what youve heard ,go train in an art for a a decade and then talk,youve no experience to speak from.Bjj for self defense is not what you see in comps,its takedown ,top control,strike or choke out,if theres more than 1 person you dont go to ground at all.Forget finger twisting,if the lad cant grapple he wont be able to do that v a grappler,id worry more about face biting than anything,its something you dont think about when grappling and it happened to me.

[Chomolongma93]

@scarred10 go fight some wtf taekwondo fighter and then speak it,and don't say you did it,cus itf is completely different than wtf.in bjj there's no even striking,that's what i call pussy,huging on ground,that's even more pussy.wtf taekwondo has the hardest knockouts of all martial arts,it's the martial with highest ratios of injuries(usually minor),and taekwondo fighter will always kick harder and faster than any muay thai,kickboxer or kyokushin fighter.continues:

[scarred10]

@Chomolongma93 youre a teenager whose barely trained at all,how would you know anything about whats effective.I think youll find boxing has the highest ko rate by far due to the fact that the vast majority of kos are punches ,its way harder land kicks than punches.Wtf uses exactly the same kicks as itf since they came from the same person ,its rules that are different.

[Chomolongma93]

@scarred10 i didn't say highest rate,but hardest.tkd ko-es are hardest of them all,ask any martial artist and they'l tell you the same,in boxing,ko-es are like button press,you hit it with glove and they'll loose their balance for short period of time,and then come up.in tkd however ko-es are hard as hell due to being delivered by kicks that are much more powerful than punches,and kicks are hard,the ko-ed guys usually don't get up for many hours,coma is also very common.continues:

[Chomolongma93]

@scarred10 sorry but itf isn't the same as wtf,the kicking abilities of itf fighters are pale and weak compared to wtf fighters,and itf only has jabs,and it isn't full contact,meaning you aren't allowed to strike with full force in offense,wtf is,as all kicks are full force and full powered,and is ofically full contact sport.even punches are full powered,it is allowed to deliver any type of punch in the body full power but you won't get it much from it.

[BigJyeTV]

@Chomolongma93 The only thing stated that was accurate is ITF isn't the same as WTF. ITF TKD IS full contact including punches to the face. The kicking between both camps appears different in competition because of the rules. WTFers don't have to worry about getting punched in the face so they run wild with their kicking.

[Chomolongma93]

@BigJyeTV it isn't full contact,in offense,strikes aren't allowed to be done full powered,but in defense and at countering is,and only jabs are allowed.just watch wtf and itf matches and see it yourself who's better,90% of kicks in itf matches are executed with front leg and are usually very slow and have no power,double kicks are nuclear physics to itf fighters,they never combine over two kicks.all they do is front bandae,front dolyo and front pandae dolyo.wtf-ers are simply better kickers.

[BigJyeTV]

@Chomolongma93 I started my training in WTF TKD and ended up in ITF TKD. The biggest difference between the two from my perspective is my ITF school was more self defense oriented, so we would train multiple kicks, speed, etc like my WTF school, but in competition we fight more like how we'd fight in the streets. It might depend on the schools.

[Chomolongma93]

@BigJyeTV none of them is self defence oriented,they are sports tkd,only that itf is in north korea and wtf is in south korea.the way you see itf fighters fight is the way that wtf fighters fought twenty or thirty years ago,wtf advanced much faster,altho i respect itf it advances too slowly,too little people is involved in it,while wtf became the most practiced martial art in world recently,the fighters are better every year,every next generation is superior,it improves rapidly continues:

[BigJyeTV]

@Chomolongma93 We'll have to agree to disagree on this. I've trained in both and know the differences between the two. ITF TKD is definitely more self defense oriented, that's why we don't kick with our hands by our side. WTF TKD is only good against WTF TKD...lol. Don't get me wrong I respect my lineage, but they need to step away from only offering sport style sparring.

[Chomolongma93]

@BigJyeTV it doesn't matter what have you trained,but how long have you trained it,and how much were you focused on doing it.kicking with hands by your side is blocking,if you don't move your arms a little bit,the kick won't be strong and fast enough.WTF tkd is good when you kick someone in the ribs with the good old fast bandae chagi,something that wtf fighters are best at.WTF are better at what they are doing than ITF,ITF may have head punches,but they are very imperfected continues:

[BigJyeTV]

@Chomolongma93 like I said we have to agree to disagree. I started in WTF TKD (3rd dan) and ended up in ITF TKD (5th dan). It really depends on the schools. Kicking with hands down by the side is no blocking....where is the protection for the head? but like I said before we just agree to disagree.

[Chomolongma93]

@BigJyeTV in itf the guard isn't as effective as boxing guard,it's made only for defending and throwing directs/jabs.If you didn't compete in wtf than that 3rd dan isn't that much,it's much more about competition than about having belts,and even muay thai or kickboxers don't protect their head when throwing kicks.it does matter of school,but when you look at top wtf matches(this vid definetly isn't) and top itf matches the itf looks way inferior in terms of kicking,and much less dynamical.

[Chomolongma93]

@BigJyeTV even in this vid they wear protection under their doboks/kimonos,these guys are nothing for todays good fighters,america only recently started to get better and better,they had lopez family but they were from dominican republic or some other south american land,and their reign is over.iranians(koreans are second or third best) are best currently,but turks,russians,british will soon become good as them,they already have monster strong kids that will dominate in the future,continues:

[Chomolongma93]

@BigJyeTV russians are the fastest in terms of development,they are better every year,they take it very seriously since it's olympic sport,and they have very good coaches.turks have very good school since the start of 21st century,very aggresive,all about spinning and always going for an knockout,iranians are very physically strong,and like one strong and powerful kick rather than spinning and combining to much,watch alireza nassrazadani vs servet tazegul,best representers of each school.

[Chomolongma93]

@BigJyeTV by the rules of having only jabs and not allowed to do full power,ITF kicks are good,but they are simply undeveloped compared to WTF,ITF concentration of kicks is 90% front leg,mainly combinations front bandae or dolyo mixed with two punches,in WTF the kicks are very fast and powerful and with connection of 6 or more lightning fast kicks,something very unfamiliar amongst ITF fighters.i am not saying wtf is better than itf as a martial art,i am saying that they are much better kickers.

[Chomolongma93]

@BigJyeTV there are 16 year old capable of taking medals in olympics,aaron cook is good example,there is even one kid here in my country who is similarly talented as him,and those are just pioneers,soon many more fighters like aaron cook will appear.

[Chomolongma93]

@scarred10 finger twisting ain't forbidden for no reason,without that rule,the sport would look retarded,like some kid fight,the point of entire sport would be to break someones finger,yeah they allowed face bitting,but forbided finger twisting,some macho shit man.you don't even feel any pain during the fight,it's just a sport same as wtf tkd,same as even okinawan karate,the only martial art for street is street fighting,not even mma,not even muay thai.

[scarred10]

@Chomolongma93 finger twisting would make zero difference,it was allowed since the vale tudo in brzil.all the way through the early ufc and in russia for years,it was never once successful,it works on untrained men.Believe me if you compted youd know that you feel pain and you feel anxiety,body shots in particular and leg kicks hurt a lot.Wtf is a pussies sport,mma,boxing and thai are real combat sports due to the head punching,without headshots all styles are useless.

[Chomolongma93]

@scarred10 no it wasn't,it's one of about thirty rules in mma,no smaller joints twisting,same goes for vale tudo,it was in rules since begining of the entire sport.i am an active competitor from age of 15,.i was competed as senior as of 16 yrs,i know very well about pain,i was ko-ed when i was 11, and on every competition i am kicked by guys that are over 110 kg heavy,on every competition i had air blown,i was beaten nastily on every tournament i went,my arms entirely purple from bruises.

[Chomolongma93]

@scarred10 at least tkd requires guts to enter in a ring,you risk a ko,broken arm,jaw as one most common in tkd(one girl in my club had her jaw broken 4 or 5 times),i never understood people that were nervous/intimidated before judo,wrestling,grappling matches,ok if you're afraid to lose but man,i could go in judo match with teddy riner and i still wouldn't feel even slightly nervous,i fight with guys that are over 110kg heavy and faster than any lightweight kickboxer,continues:

[Chomolongma93]

@scarred10 now that is quite intimidating,to fight a 22 yrs old guy that is 198cm and 115kg heavy of solid muscle fast as lightning and all at age of 16,the guy almost halfed me with a single fast kick,blowed the air out of me even while i was blocking,the first time i fought that guy i was injured in a first round(the cause was probably that kick),i was so pissed that i have sworn on revenge.if it wasn't for that injury he would have probably ko-ed me badly.continues:

[Chomolongma93]

@scarred10 i fought him once later but still couldn't win him,at least i fought honorably and i was i able to score point,haha.I can feel that i'll soon get my revenge,for i am much stronger now than back then,anyway do a tkd match and then talk about it,cus you obviously know nothing about wtf taekwondo.

[scarred10]

@Chomolongma93 i know everything there is to know about it,its a difficult sport but not in the least bit helpful in any practical way .Even a world champ in it would be completely useless in any real fight either in a ring,cage or street,the lack of head punching and wrestling is a huge drawback to any style,it cant be effective without those aspects

[Chomolongma93]

@scarred10 the guy on athens olympics got two spine chords broken and was in coma for 3 months,he was fully recovered later,but i don't know did he ever compete again.i agree,wtf isn't good for mma(you have cung le as an exeption),street fight(at least learns you to kick hard,and fast),k-1(they aren't that bad in k-1,they can beat some of them,but not the best,you have serkan yilmaz,ozeki,and others),but it's very good base for every striking sport,continues:

[Chomolongma93]

@scarred10 gokhan saki if you ask me currently the best kickboxer in world has tkd origin,and has tkd coach specialized for kicks,that's why he can do all those fancy kicks,and yet he is still nothing compred to tkd fighters,but for kickboxers he has awesome speed and explosivness.anderson silva has tkd origin,you can see his famous reaction if someone tries to low kick him he jumps and does a rear horse kick,that's the most typical technique for tkd,called dwi chagi

[Chomolongma93]

@scarred10 andy souwer would get killed if fought with fighters like servet tazegul,dmitry frank,alireza nasrazadani and other in tkd match.

[scarred10]

@Chomolongma93 lad,no elite kickboxer would get killed in any tkd match but theyd lose on points for sure because they are used to real fighting and wouldnt be allowed to use their full ability.Would you rather be great at a real full contact style like kickboxing/thai or some pussified tkd competitor

[Chomolongma93]

@scarred10 see that's the difference between you and me,you wan't to be badass madafaka to be able to beat shit of someone,while i want to be best at my sport.i would always chose to be badass at my sport,than to be badass at kickboxing or muay thai,i don't need to train muay thai just to show that people shouldn't mess with me,or to be able to fight on the street,i simply don't need it,i am devoted to my sport,even with the glory that comes with being a K-1 champion.tkd is fused into me,cont:

[Chomolongma93]

@scarred10 it's part of me,i can't imagine my life without it,and i am very pissed when somebody disses it and doesn't knows about it.i was heavily ko-ed when i was 11 yrs old and i still continued it,abandoning it is like leaving part of myself.and any elite kickboxers would get killed in tkd match with top tkd fighter,i wish i could prove you somehow,but i can't.you can't beat tkd fighter in his own game,especially when you don't know tkd.

[Chomolongma93]

@scarred10 no strength involved?are you kidding me?speed and mass are most important yes but the bigger the man the stronger the hit,steroids aren't just for strength,they are for everything,best proof are sprinters,they eat chemistry for breakfast.Vitali Klitschko was banned from olympics because of steroids and yet he still looked very slim back then.not to mention overeem and other freaks.

[scarred10]

@Chomolongma93 I didnt say no strength,all combat sport requires strength but not max strength.If you get bigger,you jump weight classes,thats ok for heavyweights and overeem (it helps his thai clinch and grappling obviously).Sprinters are moving their entire bodyweight quickly,it helps them more.

[Chomolongma93]

@scarred10 continues:kyokushin and muay thai of those officially don't have doping controls,while mma and k-1 ''have'' only to show people that fighters aren't on steroids.Wrestling coaches make 16 year old students to take doping,same is for judo,and i know a guy that switched from kyokushin to kickboxing because all of kyokushin fighters are drugged before fights and all are on some heavy roid chemistry.Klitschko was banned on olympics because of steroids when he was much slimmer than now.

[scarred10]

@Chomolongma93 as ive told you judo and wrestling are tested.Very few kyokushin athletes are on roids as theres no money involved .

[Chomolongma93]

@scarred10 it's easy to pass doping tests,i go to sports highschool and i know many wrestlers and judokas,they tell me it's peace of cake.steroids are common as water in judo and wrestling,they give them roids extensivelly from junior days(no doping among juniors),and they shrink that dose when they become seniors.As for kyokushin,they worst of them all,and tournaments in japan are very well paid,it's not about money,it's about pride.continues:

[Chomolongma93]

@scarred10 anyway kickboxers end as much as bad in tkd match as tkd end in k-1 match,or even worse,try it yourself,you'll se what i am telling you about.kyokushin and MT fighters always chalenge every one to match but only under a kyokushin and MT rules,and that's very pussy if you ask me,while in tkd matches both kyokushin and MT fighters stand like clay pigeons taking punishment and always getting ko-ed at second round.tkd fighters kick stronger than both kyokushin and MT fighters.

[scarred10]

@Chomolongma93 no kickboxer would both with WTF because its just a fancy kicking match,kickboxing is a real test for any art.You will never see a thai fighter in a tkd match because its not a real test.Having a lifetime of itf tkd and many years thai ,i can tell you thai has stronger kicking method,however ,ive done tkd in eastern europe and some of their schools are full contact unofficialy,its basically kickboxing and they crostrain kickboxing

[Chomolongma93]

@scarred10 wtf is by far superior to itf in kicking,in itf you use too much front leg,itf is like mix between karate and low contact kickboxing.i train tkd and i've trained kickboxing(i stopped bcs i had no money,and because when i focused on low kicks,the next taekwondo training it would be hard for me to do fast head kicks),when i had my first training i allready had by far strongest,and by million miles faster kicks than entire kickboxing club.continues:

[scarred10]

@Chomolongma93 the kicks in wtf and the itf are identical,the lack of hands in wtf render it a complete joke.WTF tend to be faster kickers due to emphasis on it but taking the hands out destroys any benefit to self defense.

[Chomolongma93]

@scarred10 no they aren't,in itf you train different than in wtf,you use front leg much more than back leg and you don't combine more than one or two kicks,you can see that easily when watching these two styles,wtf is simply much better at kicking,in itf(sry if i'm wrong) there are only jabs,and i am also not sure do you hit it with full power,in tkd is getting more and more very powerful one punch strike to the body as a counter,especially in heavyweight division.continues:

[Chomolongma93]

@scarred10 and tkd isn't useless in street fights,it teaches you to kick fast and strong,one kick to the ribs and of you go,in newspaper there was an case when bosnian tkd coach ko-ed 4 punks on street,one ended with broken ribs,and one ended with hand broken.i know that coach personally from tournaments,and that's a well known story among regional tkd clubs here.

[Chomolongma93]

@scarred10 i was 110kg heavy and still fastest,everybody were looking me,and asked me ''dude you have some sick kicks'',i had problems in begining with enduring low kicks,but quickly got used to it.every tkd heavyweight is faster than any lightweight kickboxer,and every cocky steroid kickboxer that came in my tkd gym ended with broken noses and hands from guys two weight classes smaller.so before you start shitting,go to some decent tkd gym and spar with someone continues:

[Chomolongma93]

@scarred10 and tell me how did you do,i can bet as any kickboxer or muay thai fighter you would just stand like a clay pigeon confused taking punishment and then bullshiting like ''no fair,he changed his stance,he always moves when i try to hit him'' you would quit after two trainings after seeing it isn't easy,try it,experience it,than you can judge it.

[scarred10]

@Chomolongma93 lad,ive already said i was in tkd for 13 yrs with the itf and then 3 yrs with hee il chos group which was full contact with boxing and grappling so ive done thousands of tkd sparring rounds and at international standard for a few yrs in the early to mid 90s.I got beat badly by a much bigger boxer on the street in 1996 and after that I began to train only full contact styles.I had so many bad habits from light conatct sparring and no close range defense.

[Chomolongma93]

@scarred10 itf and wtf is so much different,that's what i try to tell you all this time.you would get beaten by a bigger boxer even if you trained muay thai for 13 yrs,size matters alot.I am not sure are you even allowed to kick full power in itf,in wtf is allowed and is officially full contact,and kicks are very powerful even with protective gear.i didn't wanna train tkd because of self defense,i trained it because i liked the sport,fights like from king fu movies and all that.continues:

[Chomolongma93]

@scarred10 tkd is created as a sport,not self defense system,judo is also just a sport version of traditional japanese jiu-jitsu,in judo you have so many dumb and retarded rules in terms of real life situations.bjj also,if finger twisting and smaller joint twisting was allowed it would look like some kid fight.most of art are created as a sport,only some are better adapted on street than other.

[scarred10]

@Chomolongma93 tkd is first and foremost a self defense art,not a good one but thats the idea,sport is still a secondary area of ITF tkd,the WTF I dont consider tkd at all.Judo is a more effective version than jujitsu either on a mat or anywhere else.None of the arts were created as sports ,the sport came later,name me 1 single art created for sport.

[Chomolongma93]

@scarred10 all have their origin as a self defense art,but today all of them you name are just combat sports,created to be more interesting and differ from others,or sometimes to go in use for leading nation in sport.judo once had leg and double lag takedowns,it was also,i don't know how to say this(english not my maternal),but you was abble to simply lift a man grabbing him by the waist and many other rules,with all those rules,russian,georgian and generaly all ex soviet countries,continues:

[Chomolongma93]

@scarred10 that have strong wrestling traditions dominated the leauge,japanese didn't liked it,so they cut of those rules,there are so many more dumb rules in judo.jiu-jitsu is bjj,bjj was brought by japanese in brazil,and then little modified,and judo always beats bjj in grappling matches,something you should know.combat sambo for example,in miltary they teach completely different than sport sambo matches.when you fight on street,rage overcomes,you see that in k-1 and boxing,continues:

[scarred10]

@Chomolongma93 lad,judo never beats bjj in grappling matches(of similar experience) because judo guys never compete in grappling matches,they stick to judo.As a whitebelt in bjj I could newaza with some judo blacks,now as a purple belt Ive never met one who bothers me and I train regularly at judo schools.BJJ isnt jujitsu,its judo,maeda had never done jujitsu in japan,judo started 30 yrs before it came to brazil.

[Chomolongma93]

@scarred10 all are good boxers,but when they brawl does it look like a box match?no,they simply swing like kids with no guard,evading or whatever,trying to hit harder than the other.sport is one,street martial art is different,and getting punched with glove is different than getting punched without glove.

[ATACXGYMTAEKWONDO]

@scarred10 Okay then sir,we simply disagree and I wish you the best in your martial path.I happen to be a Muay Thai coach,a boxing and wrestling coach,and happen to have decades of experience in other martial arts.I have no problem integrating Olympic TKD very effectively for self-defense,the ring or recreational purposes.Like the motto in my Gym goes:"IT'S NOT JUST WHAT YOU KNOW,IT'S HOW YOU TRAIN".Best of luck,sir.

[scarred10]

@ATACXGYMTAEKWONDO there is no wtf tkd style as such ,its just a sparring ruleset,the techs are the same as all tkd but the ruleset renders them useless in combat because theyre not trained reaistically.Its how you train and tkd doesnt train effectively.IF you did train effectively you wouldnt be doing tkd,it would be something else.Full contact tkd with grappling would just be MMA.

[ATACXGYMTAEKWONDO]

@scarred10 Sir,you reveal your personal bias when you indicate that training effectively means NOT training in TKD.Any art can be trained effectively with magnificent results.Korea's elite military ROK trains TKD.WTF rule sets and techs aren't useless in combat or in self-defense;they're just focused on a specific aspect of sport combat like bjj is.Sir,TKD is more than what you called "full contact tkd with grappling",as TKD includes grappling strikes of all sorts, weapons etc.Good luck training

[scarred10]

@ATACXGYMTAEKWONDO I am biased.towards things that are effective,tkd in any form isnt.If karate or tkd or kung fu are trained effectively ,they would not look remotely like those styles,they look like kickboxing with grappling,all styles do because that works.You can take a sport bjj lad and hell be able to deal with 90% of untrained people ,wtf lad wont be because hes never done anything that happens on the street.

[ATACXGYMTAEKWONDO]

@scarred10 I see that we disagree fundamentally. TKD's self-defense history proves that it's literally "kickboxing and grappling" with weapons included and an emphasis on kicking.Sir,if it's your opinion that TKD is ineffective? Fine,sir.I practice bjj,judo,etc and I know plenty of wtf guys who can handle themselves well on the street.Perhaps you don't know enough wtf guys? Same with karate,kungfu,etc. As for your assessment of sanda/sanshou? I think Cung Le would disagree,sir.

[scarred10]

@ATACXGYMTAEKWONDO cung lee never did any kung fu,he just trained the sanshou,his style was tkd,kickboxing and college wrestling.Having done ITF tkd since 1984 and wrestled/sub grappling /bjj since 1996 along with it I can tell you that theres no grappling in either WTF or ITF tkd and theres no weapons in either,its completely unarmed.Ive sparred in rings with all types of stylists over the years,tkd ,boxers,thai,sanshou,anyone who wanted.

[scarred10]

@ATACXGYMTAEKWONDO tkd has no grappling,in the military it may have but its been added from other arts since armies never use just 1 style ,its a combo.All styles that work are just kickboxing with grappling.For eg sanshou is supposedly kung fu but theres no kung fu in it.There are some tkd lads in mma but the only tkd youll see is a few fancy kicks that mostly dont land and those guys always do kickboxing also.

[ATACXGYMTAEKWONDO]

@scarred10 My fellow martial artist,when you say that Cung Le doesn't do kungfu only san shou...you DO realize that san shou IS a brand of gungfu,right? It's called "sanshou gungfu" or "sanda".Cung Le himself has said so many a time in various interviews.It's in his bio and I'm sure you can Wikipedia it.It's also on his website...sanshou.When he fought K-1 under san shou rules? The commentators mentioned it too.

[scarred10]

@ATACXGYMTAEKWONDO sanshou is a rule set for competition,its not a style of kung fu,its chinese kickboxing that allows all kung fu to be pressure tested.However you rarely see anything done in any kungfu style in it except the wrestling ,cung le was a scholarship wrestler in america.Cung never practised any style of kung fu nor shows it in his fights

[ATACXGYMTAEKWONDO]

@scarred10 Once I did that? I was much more competitive.These guys deserve respect.With that being said? Yeah I agree that I'm not a fan of some of the WTF rules. I deliberately throw lotsa combination punches at Olympic TKD guys and follow with hard kicks.I deliberately dump them on their backs from the clinch with sweeps trips pushes and stuff.When I do that,it really throws their games off. I think Pro TKD is good but should incorporate more ITF rules and better scoring methods.

[MrFatalis123]

copy bruce lee???

[wowditto]

Blue one when he kiyaps sounds like a fuckin girl aie!!! thats all

[MakeMeRedial]

damn these guys are good



[SlashRNFR]

Anderson, The Spideeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrrr, (deep breathe) SIIIIILLVVVAAAAAAAAAAA!!! Bruce Buffer Rules!! :L

[kakashikungfu]

bruce lee el mejor estos son pura mierda xD

[BeatleMaan]

JAJA esos ejercicios son del taekwondo wtf de 1991 JAJAJAJAJ

[BeatleMaan]

falta Andre Limonada

AJIAJIAJIA

[6asiansboyz]

Brian McCutcheon is my teacher at Oahu Taekwondo center

[chicabobica]

Dong Lee is BEAST

[pabloripoll8]

the blue one sounds girly

[BacheKhala]

@pabloripoll8 the blue one looks rly gay 

[cooldudepro]

stupid white guy you suck

[ThePauLoL]

Bruce Buffer the official announcer of the UFC!!

[FlipSnipeZ]

@ThePauLoL YEAH!! i was shocked to see him!

[setfree1995]

@ThePauLoL it is him hahaha^^

[ThePauLoL]

@setfree1995 what an evolution for him huh !

[setfree1995]

@ThePauLoL yeah hahaha^^

[trainmasterxxx]

can i get this on dvd or sumthing?