Even as a devout Arya Samaj Hindu, I think it's mysterious how liberal, hippie, fruity, wussy, retarded, tree hugging, Wiccan, queer, jungle loving, bohemian, voodoo crazed, nudist, trailer trash, gothic, occultist leftist shrimps always find an excuse to degrade Christianity and rewrite history to make it look bad but NEVER go after all the radical Muslims that hate other faiths, are jihad extremists, follow harsh sharia laws and beat, stone, kill, and rape their women yet leftists defend them!
i fucking love you semi literate monkeys that talk down to people while those gifted with FUNCTIONING brains see that you clearly dont understand what we are writing ....its funny and entertains me a great deal ....i just wanted everyone who experiencees this to know....your not alone ...yes we see the monkeys....(but im afraid were out numbered)
i fucking love you semi literate monkeys that talk down to people while those gifted with FUNCTIONING brains see that you clearly dont understand what we are writing ....its funny and entertains me a great deal ....i just wanted everyone who experiencees this to know....your not alone ...yes we see the monkeys....(but im afraid were out numbered)
i fucking love you semi literate monkeys that talk down to people while those gifted with FUNCTIONING brains see that you clearly dont understand what we are writing ....its funny and entertains me a great deal ....i just wanted everyone who experiencees this to know....your not alone ...yes we see the monkeys....(but im afraid were out numbered)
i fucking love you semi literate monkeys that talk down to people while those gifted with FUNCTIONING brains see that you clearly dont understand what we are writing ....its funny and entertains me a great deal ....i just wanted everyone who experiencees this to know....your not alone ...yes we see the monkeys....(but im afraid were out numbered)
Wow, I thought the Romans killed many 1000s of Christians (Protestants). You see all the old pictures from years ago of Christians being fed to lions for entertainment for roman soldiers. The catholic church didn't play round.
in our denomination there was also a righteous zeal instilled of the notion of dying for the faith, dont be a coward and miss out on the eternal prize, no go until they kill you for it and you'll be saved
Is the guy saying that the Diocletianic Persecution didn't happen? And I agree fanaticism doesn't equal truth. But the persecution of early Christians was due to refusing to comply with the Roman Religious practices. Ironically, they were seen as atheist. And what do you say about Acts 5:29? Has this guy applied proper exegesis from the text?
I agree, fanaticism isn’t a measure of an ideology’s validity. The fact that, from what I’ve seen, all particularist religions hold themselves to different (lower) sets of standards than others (your special pleading) is evidence against them. I believe that a real ‘one true religion’ would produce different evidences than others and need no standards downgrade.
This has to be the worst 'debunking' video I've ever seen. You're making a lot of assumptions, thereby, doing the exact same thing you're condemning Christians. The fact that you deny the persecution of the early church in Rome...I don't even know what to do with this. At this point, you must be having to convince yourself of a lot to deny that much documentation of history...
Aside from that, your point about the Romans being tolerant of religions not perceived as rebellious is true, which is why, fundamentally, the Christian faith caused such a ruckus. First off, being monotheistic, Christians could not believe that Caesar, or the Roman gods, were acceptable. Therefore, in denying Caesar's deity, they were rebelling. Not to mention (since you would well know, being so well versed in the Bible), that the return of Christ would mean He would be king of the world...
Not to mention, Christianity was not referenced as being separate from Judaism until chapter 11:26, when the people of Antioch first addressed them as such. Therefore, it already had been lumped in as a rebellious belief, because it was stemming from Judaism, and the Christ that the Christians were professing to exist, was already acknowledged by the Jews to eventually come and free the people from Roman rule (of course, the prophets distinguished between Christ's first and second coming)...
but the Jews who rejected Christ at His first coming, did not. Now, you're entitled to believe what you want to believe, but seriously...if it is all fake, why even make a video about it's fallacy? None of it matters, right? I don't think you can logically provide a reason for why it should, other than a temporal "because we need to better society". As if to say that somehow a pathetic reason as such would justify your video's purpose.
@hoodooboodoo ""if it is all fake, why even make a video about it's fallacy?"
If you believed a particular system of beliefs was a constant source of ignorance and conflict, retarding the progress and development of the species and promoting thoughtless sheep-like behavior... kept in place by the ritual indoctrination of impressionable children, breeding, scare-tactics and the recruitment of the vulnerable and weak... if the thought that your elected leaders command tremendous economic,
@Murchad99 You do realize that what you give attention to, means you acknowledge it challenges your belief system. If this belief is on the same plane as someone who believes the world is flat, would you waste time trying to argue with them? No.
By the way, I find it hilarious because a lot of these statements being made could just as easily be applied to humanism- a direct attribute of atheism. A question I would ask is this, what is it about Christian beliefs do you really find threatening?
@hoodooboodoo "You do realize that what you give attention to, means you acknowledge it challenges your belief system." Putting aside your common attempts to characterize the absence of belief in the supernatural as a proactive belief system, yes, it does... and thankfully it doesn't do so by means of torture and persecution (at least not anymore).
Theist apologetics use (read: shamelessly corrupt, twist and conceptually quote-mine) science and logic for their arguments. Therein lay the anger.
@hoodooboodoo social and military power yet they seek out voices in their head, believe hut-dwelling fishermen thousands of years ago knew more about what's right and wrong than we do today, and insist the world is just over 6000 years old... if the thought of these things scares the living crap out of you then you just might think it worthwhile taking some time to try to get people to use that worthless lump of bone and organ that resides 3 feet above their ass. Not so pathetic a justification.
@Murchad99 Hmm, Mao...Stalin...Hitler? Men who refused to acknowledge there was a power higher than themselves, and wielded social, economic, and military power...hmm
So, I guess to consider lying, murder, adultery, hatred, and the like wrong, is such an imposing viewpoint. Man...yeah...Christianity does scare the crap out of me! Oh gosh...I forgot charity, truth, and hope are the decay of humanity! Excellent points, sir. Bravo. I am convinced.
Ah, the Atheist atrocity argument. How are you my old friend? It's been.... 30 minutes since someone brought you up.
Hitler: avowed Christian and Theist, promoted faith if not loyalty to established religious institutions.
Mao/Stalin: replaced religion with a secular form of dogmatic fundamentalist control dictating objective morality, in their case Communism. This was a religious substitute, built around a cult of personality, contrary to humanism.
@Murchad99 Hitler was not an avowed christian. He did nothing that demonstrated Christian principles, and even killed German Christians. To further that, he has even stated that National Socialism and religion cannot co-exist. Don't confuse what he might have been involved with in grade school with what he actually was.
I'm surprised you can't distinguish humanism in its variety of flavors. But regardless, communism is the product of atheism, whether or not you can admit the difference.
You are ridiculously, embarrassingly and catastrophically incorrect. In keeping with the definition of "avowed", I or anyone else with a reasonable grasp of Google can produce dozens of quotes in which Hitler openly acknowledges and positively endorses Christianity as the heart of his movement. ... Literally dozens.
@hoodooboodoo ""He did nothing that demonstrated Christian principles"
Neither do most Christians. Remember, I never tried to associate Nazism with Christianity, I simply pointed out the fact that Hitler was an avowed Christian in direct response and refutation to your tired, hamfisted cliche attempt to associate history's best-known villain with Atheism and secular morality.
"and even killed German Christians"
Christians have been killing Christians for millenia. Status quo.
@Murchad99 It's not a cliche, the guy was utterly opposed to religion.
10 Oct 1941: Christianity is a rebellion against natural law..
14 Oct 1941: The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death...
19 Oct 1941: The reason why the ancient world was so pure, light and serene was that it knew nothing of the two great scourges: the pox and Christianity.
And several more in:
Hitler's Secret Conversations 1941-1944
published by Farrar, Straus and Young, Inc.first edition, 1953
@hoodooboodoo "he has even stated that National Socialism and religion cannot co-exist."
Really??
'National Socialism neither opposes the Church nor is it anti-religious, but on the contrary, it stands on the ground of a real Christianity...in our fight against the Bolshevist culture, against an atheistic movement... These are not anti-Christian, these are Christian principles.'
--Hitler, Speech delivered at Koblenz 26 August 1934 , edited for space. You can find the unedited passage online.
@Murchad99 Umm, ok, let me help you with this. Hilter lied in the beginning Hitler told the Germans what they wanted to hear, to gain their support. This isn't a secret, ANY German will gladly tell you that he lied to the people to gain their support. The fact that you used a quote from 1934 only validates the point that he wasn't interested in preserving Christianity. The quote I posted, was from 11 July, 1941. A bit closer to the point his real intentions were exposed.
@hoodooboodoo I have no idea what the rest of your responses mean or what they were intended to dispute. Please quote when replying if possible... and would you please try to make some god-damned (pun intended) sense?
@hoodooboodoo Did Hitler use religion to some degree as a tool for political gain? Of course he did. Again, this puts him in the company of some of the world's most powerful religious leaders through the years. What you think Hitler believed in his heart of hearts is conjecture... he grounded his political ideology in a new brand of Christianity, and it was a smooth process. Why? Because authoritative dogma is what it is, be it religious, social or political.
@Murchad99 Ok, I'm not even going to debate with this, because you've clearly no regard for history, therefore your point is quite moot. Do not assume that because something is packaged a certain way, presented to various groups, but internally is something else, it must still be a valid demonstration of what it is 'packaged to be'.
By the way, last I checked, scientists can lose their tenure if they come to different conclusions other than evolutionary theories. Sounds dogmatic...
@hoodooboodoo "Ok, I'm not even going to debate with this, because you've clearly no regard for history"
Translation: "you clearly know a sh*t-ton more about history than I do, so I will try to wave my hand and dismiss your arguments in summary and disappear for another month".
"scientists can lose their tenure if they come to different conclusions other than evolutionary theories."
Please give me an example.
I hope for your sake you're not referring to that horrific abortion...
@hoodooboodoo ... of a mockumentary "Expelled", which was quickly recognized as intellectual feces by the majority of the non-evangelical population. Scientists are discredited for pushing an unsupportable theory with no real proof, simply because of personal religious beliefs and political goals. In doing so, said scientist betrays the scientific method because they're trying to arrange the facts for what they believe, instead of arranging their assumptions based on the facts.
@hoodooboodoo "I'm surprised you can't distinguish humanism in its variety of flavors"
I already did.
Communism in it's purest form aspires to secular humanism, but has and does fail in almost all practical applications, almost always devolving into dictatorial or oligarchical control of all aspects of life. Applied Communism is the secular version of established religion, imposing the same dogmatic control and stifling individual freedom, a corrupt and contrary foil to humanistic values.
@hoodooboodoo "So what would a successful version of communism look like? "
One that doesn't involve humans.
If you have any more questions about history or political science, take the time to do some reading. But next time try to get your info somewhere other than answers . org.
To the original point, fanaticism is not an atheist attribute, nor a humanist one for that matter, and pointing at secular dictators does more to associate theism with these atrocities than atheism.
@Murchad99 Explain how this can associate a secular dictator with theism, when the aforementioned names are clearly not? Your basically saying that 1+1 is closer to one than it is to two.
As for answers.org, not sure where you got your reference from, but I am willing to look deeper into truths than simply looking at an answers website.
@hoodooboodoo "Explain how this can associate a secular dictator with theism, when the aforementioned names are clearly not? Your basically saying that 1+1 is closer to one than it is to two."
I've explained this at least twice, and it's embarrassing that you keep asking the same question.
The basis of these atrocities is not a lack of belief in God. You can and have offered ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to justify such a claim. Rather, the atrocities stem from Dogma, and it is generally..
@hoodooboodoo ...irrelevant whether that dogma is social, political or religious. By definition, most of the world's major religions are fundamentally similar to totalitarian rule: they form a cult of personality around one or several persons and demand complete loyalty, reinforce it with propaganda and fear (of punishment or an overblown outside nemesis) and suppress challenging beliefs or ideas. The fact that dogmatic totalitarian dictators are atheist is incidental...
@hoodooboodoo ... just as the fact that many immoral politicians and businessmen attended Ivy League schools does not by associate mean that the country's most prestigious education institutions teach corruption.
If you want to debate the similarities between religion and dogmatic political ideology, or offer proof that atheism was directly responsible for history's atrocities, please present your argument point by point so I don't have to refute it 6 times.
@hoodooboodoo By the way, I'll overlook your breach of Godwin's law... religious argumentation is so thoroughly founded in persistent absurdity that said breach has actually been bumped down quite a few pegs in terms of thread-killers.
@Murchad99 And Godwin's law carries what weight to me? This is the equivalent of me quoting the Bible to you. Please, if you insist on trying to make yourself seem smarter, don't use words of people that I would have no regard for.
And if we're talking debate of religious argumentation, even you fall in that category, defending humanism, and your belief in a lack of God. Admit that much, and rid the conversation of hypocrisy, please.
@hoodooboodoo "And Godwin's law carries what weight to me?" None, apparently. Of course, you could have spent 6 seconds looking it up, and you would have gotten the joke the first time.
"This is the equivalent of me quoting the Bible to you." I doubt it, I'm very well-versed. Please only quote if it pertains to a point, there's enough people preaching on youtube.
@hoodooboodoo "even you fall in that category, defending humanism, and your belief in a lack of God."
Again you lamely attempt to pigeonhole me into a belief system, because apologists have never tried this before. What's that heavy feeling.. oh no, is it a burden of proof? I am an agnostic adeist and a probability/judgment-based atheist, and I don't recall defending humanism in any of these posts. But given the difficulty you've had so far defining your -ism's I don't imagine that means much.
@Murchad99 What difficulty? Your arguments are as bad as the guy making the film. You've yet to provide one argument that I cannot give an account for. You still continue to miss the point that even though you may not agree w/ communism or humanism, the fact is, these atrocities were done to the people who lived in that country by atheist dictators who hated, or did not care for, an idea of giving account to a higher being.
I don't know what I'm having difficulty defending? :)
@hoodooboodoo "these atrocities were done to the people who lived in that country by atheist dictators who hated ... an idea of giving account to a higher being." You have repeated this point but fail utterly and repeatedly to demonstrate why their atheism is relevant. Theists have been oppressing, killing and terrorizing people for thousands of years in the name of God, or some intermediary human form around which a cult was built.
@hoodooboodoo These atrocities were done by dictators who replaced fanaticism for religion with that of socialism and a cult of personality. The atrocities were no different than those being committed on behalf of religion, only they had more destructive technology with which to take and oppress life. What if the Crusades had had guns and bombs? The willingness to commit atrocities on behalf of a supposedly objective law puts these dictators in the company of popes.
@Murchad99 Oh good, so you can admit that these atheist forms of government were indeed seeking to replace one dogmatic view with another. Thank you for finally agreeing.
how come you didn't say that any mormon's died for their faith ? You only said they were willing to be persecuted. You should add that if you can find a single founder of the mormon or any faith other than christianity that was willing to die as a defense for that faith. I'm just sayin !
What about the Roman Nero and his reign of carnage? All the Christian's he burned upside down. You're an academic, you probably know this, yet you hold it back to make your arguement seem true. What about Lenin? He started the first Atheist state, he believed people were nothing but an 'idea' and so he could kill them in their millions if they resisted. That's the just of a Godless state. My own country SA, like America, is erring for such a state mentality. Where is the reason in all this?
Psalms 37 Fret not thyself because of evildoers,neither be thou envious against the workers of iniquity.For they shall soon be cut down like the grass,and wither as the green herb.Trust in the LORD, and do good;so shalt thou dwell in the land, and verily thou shalt be fed.Delight thyself also in the LORD;and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart....
cont: Commit thy way unto the LORD;trust also in him; and he shall bring it to pass ,And he shall bring forth thy righteousness as the light,and thy judgment as the noonday.Rest in the LORD, and wait patiently for him,fret not thyself because of him who prospereth in his way,because of the man who bringeth wicked devices to pass.
JESUS LIVES> HE IS THE KING OF KING AND LORD OF LORDS.THE LION OF THE TRIBE OF JUDAH. THE SAVIOR OF THE WORLD. THE ANOINTED ONE.THE CHRIST. THE GOOD SHEPPARD. THE BRIDE GROOM.THE MESSIAH.GOD'S ONLY SON. PERFECT SON. THE HOLY ONE OF ISRAEL.
That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life seen (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)
That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus..
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire".
"And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
This is the condemnation (verdict), that light has come into the world but men chose darkness rather than light because their deeds were evil. John 3:19
Many will die for a ie - but few if any would WILLINGLY die for a lie - therefore ypu have to look for all the other arguments that defend Christ and his teachings and historicity. Focusing on fansticism is hardly a way to beat down The Christ. Atheists seem to think they are so smart. Lol
@whiteliketar Yes, people are known to willingly die for what they know or should know to be a lie. See David Koresh, Jim Jones and the Hale Bopp cult.
I just don't understand how Christians can claim the folklore about the alleged early Christian martyrs who supposedly died for their beliefs "proves" the resurrection and yet dismiss all the modern cultists who die for their lies as somehow different. How is this different?
@DeistPaladin. I said willingly die for a lie. They believed whatever crap that was fed them was true. If they knew it was a lie - they wouldn't . please try to comprehend the statement before replying. get someone to help you understand my post before you reply.
@whiteliketar Jim Jones, David Koresh and the leader of the Hale Bopp cult were all willing to die for their lies. They personally committed suicide with all their followers.
@DeistPaladin once again - your presuppositions are digging you deep into a quagmire of misunderstanding. Those that convince themselves that it is true - it is never a lie. those that came to the conclususion that it was a lie - try to leave - many of the Jones crowd tried to flee but were prevented by force. I am not sure you can extricate yourself here from you own premise but I wish you luck. think it through or get someone versed in philosophy to help. bye
@whiteliketar I think you misunderstood me. Jim Jones HIMSELF, David Koresh HIMSELF, the guy who led the Hale Bopp cult HIMSELF, all died for their own lies.
Christians will say, "Oh but those were crazy cultists. But the early Christians, they knew the truth." This is classic special pleading.
@DeistPaladin And "the truth" again is?... The hearsay that we find in the bible? You can stand here and attest to the veracity of that book and its authenticity? Let's assume that Jesus lived and that the disciples that were willing to die did so because they just knew he was the son of god. He could have been just another charismatic philosopher, like many after him, that people just went nuts for. That still does not make christianity any "truer"...
@DeistPaladin - the problem is you don't know that - only the deranged or disturbed would do that - not normal people of reason - my very point - you might not have understood the point.
@whiteliketar There is a way that seems right unto a man but the end thereof is destruction. Good comment, Atheists always show their foolishness, you can just stand back and see it. total jokers. What kills me is how one would go so much out of the way to defend nothing. Why would you put so much effort into trying to debunk what you don't believe unless it was to bring glory to God.
You can throw the bible away and history proves it true. If you want an excuse to live your life the way you want just go ahead. When you drop dead you will know the truth.
I fully agree with you on the fact that fanaticism isn't valid as proof. It's ridiculous to think that fanaticism alone can be the basis of an argument.
Nevertheless, you bring in irrelevant and erroneous evidence to illustrate your argument, at which point your argument falls apart.
You mention that the Romans persecuted the Jews, yet were tolerant of Christians because Jesus taught his disciples to submit to secular governmental authority... (cont'd)
You use this point to support an argument that seems to insinuate that Rome would not have persecuted the apostles and, accordingly, they wouldn't have died as martyrs, rather fools.
This is bad reasoning and bad history.
First, to claim that early Christians weren't persecuted is absurd. Tacitus records mass murders of Christians after the burning of Rome in AD 64 and the death of Nero in AD 68 (see The Annals of Tacitus).
Tacitus is considered Rome's greatest historian and, as a secular scholar, he would have taken the utmost care in preserving an accurate account.
Second, Constantine had absolutely nothing to do with the apostles. Constantine was emperor from AD 306 to AD 336, nearly 250 years after the deaths of the apostles. To use Constantine's embrace of Christianity as "proof" that the apostles would not have been persecuted is completely false.
Third, there was no concept of a "Christian" in the time of the early church. ALL of the apostles, most of the early church (Acts 2:41), and even Jesus himself were in fact Jews. They were considered as such by the Romans and would have been persecuted just the same.
The Jewish war began in AD 66, shortly AFTER the death of Paul in AD 65 or 66. Surely, Paul (a Jew from the Pharisaic sect) would have been persecuted during this time.
While I agree with you that fanaticism alone is not sufficient to prove a truth claim, your supporting evidence is completely false and is misleading to your viewers. I would encourage you to be more diligent in ensuring that the evidence that you use to support your arguments--specifically in reference to the early church--is an accurate representation of historical truth, rather than a perverse mashup of unrelated historical events twisted to make a point.
@Micahthetatter I'm asking for proof that the apostles (1) existed (2) that they were persecuted for what they believed (3) that they died holding their heads high waiting for their union with Jesus.
If you can do all that, congratulations, that puts them on par with David Koresh, Jim Jones and other cultists who die all the time for crazy beliefs.
@DeistPaladin what part of it wasnt a belief dont you understand? if I went to my death for christ it would be belief. The apostles were executed for something they witnessed, again, that is not a belief. So you want me to prove they existed, that seems silly, sort of like asking you to prove they didnt exist, cause I gurantee that you cannot. With that, I will need some time but i think I can come up with some compelling evidence for their existence.
@DeistPaladin you cannot make that argument.you cannot compare the modern day cults to the followers of Jesus Christ. The followers of cults die because they are either radical, misinterpret religions, or they simply have no evidence or facts to back up what they were dying for.Jesus Christ claimed to be the Jewish Messiah so some followed and some didnt.my point is that in itself nulls the argument of the cults.Jesus claimed to be Messiah therefore people followed him.
@indianfootball74 Of course. Silly modern cults are a bunch of crazy radicals who believe in things without evidence or facts. But 2000 years ago, the people who believed that God needed to send himself down to earth to bleed on a cross so we can all fly up into the sky and be in his perfect kingdom in the clouds, well, that's completely different.
The eye witnesses of christ didnt die for a belief. They were killed for not denying something they saw, not a belief. I would not die for something I knew to be a lie
I think the more logical way to prove the existence of Jesus the fact that our way of counting years just happens to revolve around this little thing called uh, his BIRTH!!!!! What do think BC stands for?? Before Christ!
If you insist on denying that Jesus even existed or that Christians were never persecuted for the first 300 years BEFORE Constantine than all your others points are discredited. To do not even believe what is recorded by historians (non Christians) who have documented Jesus and the persecutuion, is ignorant.
The Youtube user PROFMTH has some good videos showing how the apostles did not die for their faith in Jesus, or there is no reliable account or it was for other reasons.
I'm glad you addressed this because I am constantly confronted with this statement while debating christians as if it is justification for believing their religion
And so I think the crazy laws and requirements and were a way to become individuals by making them do ritualistic things as a way of showing their faith. I am pretty certain that Leviticus and Deuteronomy were meant only for these destitute individuals commanded by God to represent Him to the world. Okay, that's it... stop arguing over faith-- it's stupid. And if someone tells you that you have to have childish like mind to believe tall tales tell them Isaac Azimov had a childish mind, then.
So know after seeing this-- there are some translations that actually state that Aaron made the idol but told the freed slaves that it was 1 god and not several. Alot of other Israel slave misfires curred and Moses actually took credit for getting water out of a rock and God was a little testy about it. But it gave me a real clear picture of how these individuals behaved-- they had no sense if individuality... they may as well have been a pack of animals--
they were breaking these new commandments and had to be killed for that. Moses talked him out of it, they didn't see the tablets... so he down to meet the party monsters and it really pissed him. I mean Moses basically did a commando type prisoner snatch from the worlds reigning people who happen to be assholes and having to convert over to the idea of 1 God was probably trying-- and now these "punks" that he helped save were ripping up a party carpet and worshiping a golden cow.
So with the introductions aside Moses hung out with God for 40 days and Nights carving out the 10 commandments. Down below the Israelites were starting to think that they were screwed. Where's this God we see not God here and to make easy for them Aaron asked for gold and other metal and formed it into a golden calf and they partied like it was 2399 BC I don't know it was a big deal IDOLS! At that point God new this and told Moses they broke the commandment by worshiping an idol
There is a scene in Exodus that really confused me but it's warming up to me now . Moses did his plagues and his right hand man / brother Aaron participated in the "my staff is bigger than your staff" contests. So they barely escape wander for quite while stuff like that, then Moses goes up to Saini and basically chats it up with God... not gods, which was very weird to people who naturally adopted polytheism and idol worship. So he actually brought up there and told him, "It's not a joke dude!
So I told my sociologist friend Diane that I was uncomfortable with sharing the Bible and that Leviticus and Numbers are a pain in the ass for Christian and Jewish apologists. That's when it dawned on me-- why would God have to direct these chosen one with the most annoying micromanagement ruling style I have ever heard of. I like told the sociologist that I would probably have fled Israel and beg Pharoah to take me--I really wouldn't do. Or maybe all expense 40 Day / Night desert getwaway.Yep
I got to the point where I start asking my paster for some reasonable meaning behind strange livestock practices and just dumb stuff-- if did what Leviticus and Deuteronomy says to do people will probably send you on vacation somewhere. One thing I noted and this idea came from the sociologist was that many of these Israelites were born into slavery and having Moses go in and butt heads with Pharaoh, give him plauges --- the 50's movie with Heston is pretty cool, I think Exodus story is cool
The law did not require surviving males because of the mortality rate-- we don't know but can suspect that maybe evolution has only brought that 40% to modern society through various means, muscles change, crap like that. But legally the mean woman could avoid having sex with Hagar if she could prove that filled the male offspring requirement. Women were very second class back then. It's just an idea but one last think-- everyone likes to rip the Bible on Leviticus and Deuteronomy.
Almost done, I promise! You know the Jewish lady who's baby died and she tried to steal another womans and in an act that caused moms to hate her for thousands of years, she gleefully was up for Solomons offer to cut the kid in half. I remember asking my mom to justify that bitch. Well it's not a fact or anything but there was a law that stated if a man dies and his widow is without a male offspring, she is to have relations with his brother, or up the line father, grandfather under law
Right from the beginning to when Satan lost his appeal to prove that sin is Gods problem not the creation when Jesus claimed Our victory. I have read some pretty convincing papers on what happened to barren Jewish women and it was not good. If you were a female back then you were not appropriate because you were barren. I've heard that men would not have sex with their wives for fear that they would die in childbirth! Realistically they were required to produce one healthy male and that is it
God's evil twin of the Old Testament was hell bent on sexual immorality and bound and determined to rule the Israelites by making them do crazy stuff and doing weird rape exchanges, polygamy, and in one instance if two men were to go at it they were to be executed. I go back and I read what is there and God does come across as a impatient person. I guess. Well, the sexual perversion was highly squared at fallen angels procreating with women and screwing up the genome that would produce Jesus.
As early back as 1800 the fatality rate of child bearing was a whopping 40% That means either the mother died or, more often the child-- they actually compress babies heads and many of them died as a result. We didn't start sterilizing medical equipment until around 1910... Pasteur came up the process but for some reason French people are slow (just kidding!) It took a while for sterilization to become standard procedure (and even today they still mess it up).
And Jesus saved a prostitute from getting stone (oh, there is no marijuana in heaven-- just kidding)... So what do we do with a gay person who doesn't like religions because religion despises them? This is what I tell them and it makes sense-- I'm not a sociologist and I'm not a mother but I do know the importance of procreation and a lot people simply can't have babies. The homosexual is really not in trouble in my view, but they certainly were during a critical time in the growth
Satan has nothing to lose so this is going to be a nice last chance dick move he does to god and you get witness it. I'm really nervous about that but hey, John 3:16 and I've already told God that I not interesting a harp but will try and I will float a cloud every 27th Tuesday. We'll see... Okay back to the gay person who we all know is born with the tendency to be gay. I don't approve homosexuality but I also don't approve adultery which I think is worse because a relationship dies or lies
I told her that God does not measure sins in weights an values and really there is only 1 sin He absolutely will not forgive and that blasphemy of the Holy Spirit which includes destroying the Bible both physically and psychologically. Its the most heinous form of blasphemy that really goes into Satan territory and also too, did you know that Satan is going to telling God/Jesus that you are sinner because God made sin... and he's going hammer with all dumb sinful crap that you did.
Well, I am about done here. Tell me what you think DeistdPaladin-- I really enjoy an intelligent conversation-- OH, okay here's my one-in-million never been fathomed before to amaze all of you. It's a stunner... just kidding. I am working on what I think is a reasonable truce for homosexuals to really understand that they are being unfairly put to judgement from Old Testament laws and carryovers, and even Romans talks about it but I met that sociologist and I had tell her I do believe
If you think that the United States has pretty mean buff greeen Berets and Seals that live off of recycled nuclear wastewater and smile for the while. The angels that are in the old testament will Predator look like a Pomeranian. Its a very weird kind power also-- the type of which your brain cannot fathom -- and you are not going to be able to exhibit the type of mad yelling screaming, fussing and cussing I know and atheist would want to dish out.
A Christian wins the promise but something has to be done about your version of sin, we all have it. And on the atheist said the same thing would take place so save the Al Pacino bitch out because you won't have what had that let you open cans of whoop as PLUS Angels are kinda cute-- you know wings and harps clouds... Ezekiel was really good at trying to put into words what he saw and I know a really good sociologist who has a very good idea of what the mindset of whoever it was that wrote that
Athiests have some of the most clever "last words" to give to the Creator, I mean executioner. I get a lot emails from people telling what they would say and much of has mimicked death row inmate passes... a few really tore into God and just laid it out to Him and then they bitter mafia like shout in disgust as they get hurled into the heart of some galaxy somewhere. I don't really know what it be like,but I can tell you on Christian side-- you are not going to see God until you are clean.
The biggest misconception with Christians is they tend to think that once you ceremoniously admit you are powerless over sin and ask Jesus to be in your heart that you'll die day, shoot down a tunnel, you might see a communion alien, or some people say your watch your life pass before-- kind of like an in-flight movie from LA to New York. Most them don't realize that are still going to be judged and I have really studied this stuff and I can tell you that your going watch enemies of yours burn
In my opinion: atheists need to back off and be happy that the world is no longer shunning them. Most of the Christians I have known have a plug and play version of Hell and the lake fire and I've actually had atheists tell me what they would say to God if He was real and you had explain yourself. OH BOY. I have been visiting both atheist channels and Christian defense channels both really don't know the answers to those questions.
So back onto my belief is more true than your belief I think people need to look at themselves and ask themselves "You know why am I defending a belief? That's like fighting to prove that your mom is really your mom-- see she smiles at me! The thing that attracted me here in honesty: religion has for thousands of years pretty much act as both law and peace keeping. You have a lot of hostility toward people who (found the greatest new evidence or thought regarding the argument you had yeas ago
you are going to see a good number of new atheists bounce back to their previous belief system, you'll have atheists out there frustrated because they don't have a church or something comparable to raise their spirits and help them resist the fear of death and animal panic. At one of our recent sessions we had to be the "odd man" in a series of what if scenarios. The odd man will take greater risks because they do not have offsprint, they are not married, and no one else.
The reason I wanted to comment on your video is you display just the right amount of vigor when it comes to the reality of a distorted public mindset. Somehow, people are going to have to stop fighting over faith. It's stupid. Its not fight worthy. You can prove anything doing it: the atheist cant' convince the believer into rejecting myth and the religious person can't get the atheist to accept God... it's God-- what's so bad about God and your going to see the atheist (more)
Right now, we are trying to come up with a secular replacement that will aid atheists in the same physical regard as a church does it's believers. We're already starting packets out to certain groups to join in the analysis. So that's what I do, I'm also science fiction and fantasy author, so I really get into game theory. I cannot help but be concerned about newly deconverted Christians facing that dystopian future they now reject but are being forced to reswallow.
What we are finding is really unfortunate. I would have to say that Mormon groups are the best prepared, but but even their resources are going disappear very quickly. I'm not trying to scare anybody but as a year or two ago our country and much of the world is locked into a scenario that if say our electrical grid were to fail in one of dozens critical spots after about 30 days people in America will be dying in the millions.
I am in a government funded think tank group to basically in vision a disaster that will happen soon. The basic are the country crippled it applies game theory critical breakdowns in a myriad of possibilities and my team is charged with how to catalog survivors without certain Christian groups calling it the mark of 666... We're great difficulty and do run batteries of tests on volunteers and use their reactions and ability to face this disaster and not go fringe.
When you that you have to be "like a child" to get into heaven the media loves take that literally but that is not what Jesus was saying. I won't get into it here,but this whole about God having a creation that willfully loves Him back requires a sense of wonder that all children have and as your grow up you will lose it unless you feed the wonder. But don't fall into the false stereotype because I happen know some very intelligent persons that hide their Christianity so that they can live.
I felt odd and here I was, a Mensa member since 6 years old, believing a fairy tail.All I can say is Mensa can be weird..I don't get nervous around them but I looked at them and said that faith was a great break away from responsible critical thinking, analysis, and modification of game theory.The 20% said that they knew I was a Christian and they had been waiting for the opportunity to share their Christian beliefs with me.I'll be done with these comments and if you want me to erase them I will
Now the fun part :) I am a well known person and I rank very high on Mensa and bothered me because I really couldn't explain to them that I pray to God to keep my intellect and to always find the "occams razor" of society- that is hard to do when people simply hate what you think or believe.Well I ended up admitting to my fellow Mensa members that I am a believer and I'd say about 20% of them looked at me in shock and said,"You mean to tell that possess great intellect and yet you still believe?
Our atheist group uses me as a friendly passage from deconversion and I handle them with great care. Going from deathbed to paradise to suddenly this is it can be shocking. One stuck out for me is this young couple deconverted and a family was murdered and they came to me and said that Atheism was not right because they grew up seeing funerals and gatherings at the deceased church and the preacher and a special message. So when our atheist chapter sends them to me its largely to prepare them.
The last 25 years of the 20th century experienced a radical surge in salvation doctrine. The book "The Late Great Planet Earth" painted a chilly dystopia future where if you didn't take the mark of the beast it's off with your head! It got crazy and I was growing up so I learned great deal about the roots of Christianity as result. End times prophecy is and invite to morbid curiousity and it describes anti Jesus that literally would be the anti-particle of Jesus-- Anti-Christ FEAR!
I am personally dissatisfied with the way the Protestant movement has fanned out and pretty puts people back into the pre-protestant era where Christians were taught they had to get salvation through the church and that was a conflict because what happens if the Holy Mother Roman Church has too much power: Luther and many others felt that Jesus came to us and gave us each a part of the proverbial pie meaning it is not your church that goes to heaven, but your soul will if you believe in Me.
Well, I am a Christian but I have a great consulate with the athiest chapter in my community. People express frustration with Protestant Christianity because there are so many different "flavors." It not like that, really: a Christian Church has a core doctrine based on John 3:16 and that is shared by Catholics also, and the unorthodox "Jews for Jesus" groups. So in reality there 3 main divisions and the hybrid reformed Jews for Jesus and Judaism (if my writing bothers you, I'll delete them)
I can see where your frustration lies but look, I'm an American... if I am arrested in another country there are some countries that will charge me as their citizen... this was a major topic with Julian Assange and so I on the Book of Mormon being accepted by other Christian Protestant church's have a similar claim. One of doctrines that Mormonism teaches is mix of standard burn in hell flavored hell with a good dash of Judaism' sheol, and a little bit of Catholic purgatory. (more)
I have come accross with your video on fanaticsm.. I appriciate your efforts and frank approach. Jesus Christ's Disciple were martyred, is irrelevant reasoning if we use only the claim that says they were martyred. I think rather you should view the life of the Jesus Disciples, pre-crucifixion, during the crucifixion and post crucifixion and their death. Even Jesus claiming about the way His disciple shall die should not be overlooked. Fanaticsm does exist in any type of world-view that exist.
I have come accross with your video on fanaticsm.. I appriciate your efforts and frank approach. Jesus Christ's Disciple were martyred, is irrelevant reasoning if we use only the claim that says they were martyred. I think rather you should view the life of the Jesus Disciples, pre-crucifixion, during the crucifixion and post crucifixion and their death. Even Jesus claiming about the way His disciple shall die should not be overlooked. Fanaticsm does exist in any type of world-view that exist,
i can prove Jesus lived without using a bible. you are right,someone dying doesnt prove anything. The romans did persecute the jews. that is well known. try reading the writings of tacius,the great roman historian.
I think it's notable that Atheists keep coming back to listen to apologetics... you'd think if they were really SURE of their beliefs that they would have better things to do.
BUT: The truth is WAY DEEP DOWN they want to believe in God, and to know Him, because that's what they were created for - though they vehemently deny it.
I went to every presupper video I could, every bahnsen video that allowed open comments such as this and posted them to check out Dawson Bethrick's bahnsenburner.blogspot.com
and almost all, if not all of them marked it as spam. why are presuppers so scared of bahnsenburner.blogspot? maybe becuz u get schooled in truth. ; ]
Yes and those signs were to be proof to those who words alone will not reach. Yes, He told them to dedicate their lives to spread the Word. I thought you were referring to literally dying right then and there. Would you really like me to explain Matthew 16:28?
And that is the problem. Search the scriptures. Jesus came exactly as the Old Testament was written. I am sure you have studied these topics but you believe the scriptures were written only to appease the current situation. But as Jesus showed, that is not the case. Jesus came and accomplished something much more than just overcoming territorial invasions.
Yes, Jesus spoke of love. Jesus said this because burial these days is really only to ease the minds of those alive.
To give up their lives because the world was ending? It actually says the opposite. To continue to do what they were doing. servants be servants, masters be masters. Jesus said to the Jews to search the scriptures. He said they were blinded to how He was fulfilling the prophesies. Mosaic Law foretold the coming of Christ.
how his disciples would not be harmed by death until their time was appropriate. It was their job to preach the Word and get it out to the people. I believe they did a great job.
@Omnicron777 I also encourage you to study the history surrounding the time of Jesus. He came into the world when a mighty Messiah was expected. The people expected a mighty conqueror. But Jesus came in a different sort of way. I believe Jesus didnt start his ministry until 30 because He had to be of age to be listened to. Jesus also taught to love God first. It was a teaching to organize our priorities. Jesus gave a lot of different examples about ...........
Ok, and why do most modern cult leaders get thrown in jail? Because there is something about their teaching that contradicts either the law of the country or some sort of moral code. I encourage you to look into what the Bible says about how Jesus was arrested and killed.
If you think that Christians are parroting arguments what about the fact that atheism is not saying anything new either. Your red herring using the Book of Mormon does not prove your argument against the disciples. You also have to investigate the external sources that attest to the martyrdom of the disciples. Straw man on your cults comments. Your argument for special pleading is bankrupt as well. Oh yes, Hollywood is a reliable source. Why don't you read the ancient writers.
I do not find it hard to believe that in the early stages of the Christianity, the believers were persecuted until Constantine attempted to unify his nation by mixing Christian and Pagan beliefs. Yes, I agree, fanaticism does not prove the historicity of the Bible, but it does, if true, demand an element of respect. If the followers of Christ were persecuted for their beliefs, then simply gave them up to appease the pain, would you believe the message?
@ParadigmShifter29 It makes no difference one way or the other. You should understand this since you reject all the cults that have come along since. You don't believe Jim Jones, David Koresh or the Heaven's Gate cults despite how all these leaders and followers were willing to die for it. It lends zero credibility in my mind so the lack of such fanaticism wouldn't take anything away either. It's silly either way.
So why do you ask me to accept an argument that you don't believe?
I am not asking you to accept an argument, but rather, point out the difference between other cults in history and Christianity. There is a large difference between dying for a cause and being tortured for a cause. The element of bearing pain, physical pain, to hold true to what you have seen or witnessed speaks volumes to me. Fanaticism means irrational devotion. I personally believe it would take rational devotion to endure torture for your faith.
@ParadigmShifter29 The history of cults shows otherwise. People can be convinced to endure all manner of suffering for beliefs they should know are false. To study cults in recent times is not just to study needless death but also humiliation, self-denial and even mutilation. Further, they cling to these beliefs stubbornly. I've heard that Scientologists continue to believe even after learning about Xenu.
So in other words, are you rejecting the possibility that the disciples really did have the experience described in the Bible? That there is no way this could have occurred? I agree, people can be convinced to do very horrible things. But, the men of the Bible were persecuted because they knew the truth and were not gong to deny what they witnessed, even to pain and death. To me, dying for a belief is not the complete story, but it does add to credibility.
@ParadigmShifter29 History shows that believing in the truth of a cause deeply enough that you would die for it is neither confined to Christians, nor proof that the cause is, in fact, true. This is why he brings up Heaven's Gate and the Mormons.
Saying that the men of the Bible died "because they knew the truth," offers no answer to the real question, which is, how do we know that what they believed was the truth? The deaths prove nothing.
I totally agree with you. I also understand why he mentioned Heaven's Gate and the Mormons. To die for what you believe is true does not prove that it is true. But it does offer a sort of credibility. Hence torture tactics used today to draw out the truth. For me, the men of the Bible did not simply die for a faith, but instead died/tortured for what they had witnessed. There is a difference. Besides, in my opinion, Mormons and HG are not great examples.
I think you missed a key point/premise of this argument. It is normally used as "proof" of the resurrection not necessarily that all christian claims are true.
I heard the argument presented like this:
When Jesus was arrested and crucified and arrested, his disciples had fled and Peter even goes as far to deny even knowing him. However, after seeing the resurrected body of Jesus, they were now willing to die for their beliefs. Thus giving credibility to claim of the resurrection.
I think you left out the key point and premise of this argument. The argument is normally used as "proof" of the resurrection, not necessarily that all Christian claims are true.
I heard it presented this way:
When Jesus was arrested and crucified his disciples fled. Peter had denied ever knowing him... But after they saw the resurrected body of Jesus, they were now willing to die for their belief . Thus, giving credibility to the resurrection claims.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
The fact that people die for what they believe is a pretty strong arguement. To give up your life,(Peter hanging on a Cross upside down) is pretty compelling. It comes down to faith and facts. You simply argue facts. Faith is of the supernatural that only God gives. You do not accept God and therefore have no faith in him. Why would he reveal himself to you? He says wont because you can't see what is before your very eyes. I feel sorry for you and your cause. Take your chances at judgement.
Even as a devout Arya Samaj Hindu, I think it's mysterious how liberal, hippie, fruity, wussy, retarded, tree hugging, Wiccan, queer, jungle loving, bohemian, voodoo crazed, nudist, trailer trash, gothic, occultist leftist shrimps always find an excuse to degrade Christianity and rewrite history to make it look bad but NEVER go after all the radical Muslims that hate other faiths, are jihad extremists, follow harsh sharia laws and beat, stone, kill, and rape their women yet leftists defend them!
IcedCoffee81 5 days ago
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i fucking love you semi literate monkeys that talk down to people while those gifted with FUNCTIONING brains see that you clearly dont understand what we are writing ....its funny and entertains me a great deal ....i just wanted everyone who experiencees this to know....your not alone ...yes we see the monkeys....(but im afraid were out numbered)
jebrbohn 1 week ago
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i fucking love you semi literate monkeys that talk down to people while those gifted with FUNCTIONING brains see that you clearly dont understand what we are writing ....its funny and entertains me a great deal ....i just wanted everyone who experiencees this to know....your not alone ...yes we see the monkeys....(but im afraid were out numbered)
jebrbohn 1 week ago
This has been flagged as spam show
i fucking love you semi literate monkeys that talk down to people while those gifted with FUNCTIONING brains see that you clearly dont understand what we are writing ....its funny and entertains me a great deal ....i just wanted everyone who experiencees this to know....your not alone ...yes we see the monkeys....(but im afraid were out numbered)
jebrbohn 1 week ago
i fucking love you semi literate monkeys that talk down to people while those gifted with FUNCTIONING brains see that you clearly dont understand what we are writing ....its funny and entertains me a great deal ....i just wanted everyone who experiencees this to know....your not alone ...yes we see the monkeys....(but im afraid were out numbered)
jebrbohn 1 week ago
You can't debunk logic.
DistortedV12 1 week ago
Wow, I thought the Romans killed many 1000s of Christians (Protestants). You see all the old pictures from years ago of Christians being fed to lions for entertainment for roman soldiers. The catholic church didn't play round.
RedGiant81 2 weeks ago
in our denomination there was also a righteous zeal instilled of the notion of dying for the faith, dont be a coward and miss out on the eternal prize, no go until they kill you for it and you'll be saved
101101101777 2 weeks ago
Is the guy saying that the Diocletianic Persecution didn't happen? And I agree fanaticism doesn't equal truth. But the persecution of early Christians was due to refusing to comply with the Roman Religious practices. Ironically, they were seen as atheist. And what do you say about Acts 5:29? Has this guy applied proper exegesis from the text?
FaceLikeTheSun 2 months ago
I agree, fanaticism isn’t a measure of an ideology’s validity. The fact that, from what I’ve seen, all particularist religions hold themselves to different (lower) sets of standards than others (your special pleading) is evidence against them. I believe that a real ‘one true religion’ would produce different evidences than others and need no standards downgrade.
Cathmoytura 2 months ago
This has to be the worst 'debunking' video I've ever seen. You're making a lot of assumptions, thereby, doing the exact same thing you're condemning Christians. The fact that you deny the persecution of the early church in Rome...I don't even know what to do with this. At this point, you must be having to convince yourself of a lot to deny that much documentation of history...
hoodooboodoo 2 months ago
Aside from that, your point about the Romans being tolerant of religions not perceived as rebellious is true, which is why, fundamentally, the Christian faith caused such a ruckus. First off, being monotheistic, Christians could not believe that Caesar, or the Roman gods, were acceptable. Therefore, in denying Caesar's deity, they were rebelling. Not to mention (since you would well know, being so well versed in the Bible), that the return of Christ would mean He would be king of the world...
hoodooboodoo 2 months ago
Not to mention, Christianity was not referenced as being separate from Judaism until chapter 11:26, when the people of Antioch first addressed them as such. Therefore, it already had been lumped in as a rebellious belief, because it was stemming from Judaism, and the Christ that the Christians were professing to exist, was already acknowledged by the Jews to eventually come and free the people from Roman rule (of course, the prophets distinguished between Christ's first and second coming)...
hoodooboodoo 2 months ago
but the Jews who rejected Christ at His first coming, did not. Now, you're entitled to believe what you want to believe, but seriously...if it is all fake, why even make a video about it's fallacy? None of it matters, right? I don't think you can logically provide a reason for why it should, other than a temporal "because we need to better society". As if to say that somehow a pathetic reason as such would justify your video's purpose.
hoodooboodoo 2 months ago
@hoodooboodoo ""if it is all fake, why even make a video about it's fallacy?"
If you believed a particular system of beliefs was a constant source of ignorance and conflict, retarding the progress and development of the species and promoting thoughtless sheep-like behavior... kept in place by the ritual indoctrination of impressionable children, breeding, scare-tactics and the recruitment of the vulnerable and weak... if the thought that your elected leaders command tremendous economic,
Murchad99 2 months ago
@Murchad99 You do realize that what you give attention to, means you acknowledge it challenges your belief system. If this belief is on the same plane as someone who believes the world is flat, would you waste time trying to argue with them? No.
By the way, I find it hilarious because a lot of these statements being made could just as easily be applied to humanism- a direct attribute of atheism. A question I would ask is this, what is it about Christian beliefs do you really find threatening?
hoodooboodoo 2 months ago
@hoodooboodoo "You do realize that what you give attention to, means you acknowledge it challenges your belief system." Putting aside your common attempts to characterize the absence of belief in the supernatural as a proactive belief system, yes, it does... and thankfully it doesn't do so by means of torture and persecution (at least not anymore).
Theist apologetics use (read: shamelessly corrupt, twist and conceptually quote-mine) science and logic for their arguments. Therein lay the anger.
Murchad99 2 months ago
@hoodooboodoo social and military power yet they seek out voices in their head, believe hut-dwelling fishermen thousands of years ago knew more about what's right and wrong than we do today, and insist the world is just over 6000 years old... if the thought of these things scares the living crap out of you then you just might think it worthwhile taking some time to try to get people to use that worthless lump of bone and organ that resides 3 feet above their ass. Not so pathetic a justification.
Murchad99 2 months ago
@Murchad99 Hmm, Mao...Stalin...Hitler? Men who refused to acknowledge there was a power higher than themselves, and wielded social, economic, and military power...hmm
So, I guess to consider lying, murder, adultery, hatred, and the like wrong, is such an imposing viewpoint. Man...yeah...Christianity does scare the crap out of me! Oh gosh...I forgot charity, truth, and hope are the decay of humanity! Excellent points, sir. Bravo. I am convinced.
hoodooboodoo 2 months ago
@hoodooboodoo "Hmm, Mao...Stalin...Hitler?"
Ah, the Atheist atrocity argument. How are you my old friend? It's been.... 30 minutes since someone brought you up.
Hitler: avowed Christian and Theist, promoted faith if not loyalty to established religious institutions.
Mao/Stalin: replaced religion with a secular form of dogmatic fundamentalist control dictating objective morality, in their case Communism. This was a religious substitute, built around a cult of personality, contrary to humanism.
Murchad99 2 months ago
@Murchad99 Hitler was not an avowed christian. He did nothing that demonstrated Christian principles, and even killed German Christians. To further that, he has even stated that National Socialism and religion cannot co-exist. Don't confuse what he might have been involved with in grade school with what he actually was.
I'm surprised you can't distinguish humanism in its variety of flavors. But regardless, communism is the product of atheism, whether or not you can admit the difference.
hoodooboodoo 1 month ago
@hoodooboodoo Oh here we go.
"Hitler was not an avowed christian."
You are ridiculously, embarrassingly and catastrophically incorrect. In keeping with the definition of "avowed", I or anyone else with a reasonable grasp of Google can produce dozens of quotes in which Hitler openly acknowledges and positively endorses Christianity as the heart of his movement. ... Literally dozens.
Murchad99 1 month ago
@Murchad99 Ok, but can you apply it to its natural context and still have a valid argument? I beg to differ, sir.
hoodooboodoo 1 month ago
@hoodooboodoo ""He did nothing that demonstrated Christian principles"
Neither do most Christians. Remember, I never tried to associate Nazism with Christianity, I simply pointed out the fact that Hitler was an avowed Christian in direct response and refutation to your tired, hamfisted cliche attempt to associate history's best-known villain with Atheism and secular morality.
"and even killed German Christians"
Christians have been killing Christians for millenia. Status quo.
Murchad99 1 month ago
@Murchad99 It's not a cliche, the guy was utterly opposed to religion.
10 Oct 1941: Christianity is a rebellion against natural law..
14 Oct 1941: The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death...
19 Oct 1941: The reason why the ancient world was so pure, light and serene was that it knew nothing of the two great scourges: the pox and Christianity.
And several more in:
Hitler's Secret Conversations 1941-1944
published by Farrar, Straus and Young, Inc.first edition, 1953
hoodooboodoo 1 month ago
@hoodooboodoo "he has even stated that National Socialism and religion cannot co-exist."
Really??
'National Socialism neither opposes the Church nor is it anti-religious, but on the contrary, it stands on the ground of a real Christianity...in our fight against the Bolshevist culture, against an atheistic movement... These are not anti-Christian, these are Christian principles.'
--Hitler, Speech delivered at Koblenz 26 August 1934 , edited for space. You can find the unedited passage online.
Murchad99 1 month ago
@Murchad99 Umm, ok, let me help you with this. Hilter lied in the beginning Hitler told the Germans what they wanted to hear, to gain their support. This isn't a secret, ANY German will gladly tell you that he lied to the people to gain their support. The fact that you used a quote from 1934 only validates the point that he wasn't interested in preserving Christianity. The quote I posted, was from 11 July, 1941. A bit closer to the point his real intentions were exposed.
hoodooboodoo 1 month ago
@hoodooboodoo "Umm, ok, let me help you with this." No, let me help YOU, since I'm tired of seeing you squirm and backtrack.
tr.v. a·vowed, a·vow·ing, a·vows
1. To acknowledge openly, boldly, and unashamedly; confess: avow guilt. See Synonyms at acknowledge.
2. To state positively.
You denied Hitler was an avowed Christian. You were WRONG. Posting a few quotes from second-hand sources does not change this fact.
Murchad99 1 month ago
@Murchad99 You've done the exact same thing. What is your point?
hoodooboodoo 3 weeks ago
@hoodooboodoo I have no idea what the rest of your responses mean or what they were intended to dispute. Please quote when replying if possible... and would you please try to make some god-damned (pun intended) sense?
Murchad99 3 weeks ago
@hoodooboodoo Did Hitler use religion to some degree as a tool for political gain? Of course he did. Again, this puts him in the company of some of the world's most powerful religious leaders through the years. What you think Hitler believed in his heart of hearts is conjecture... he grounded his political ideology in a new brand of Christianity, and it was a smooth process. Why? Because authoritative dogma is what it is, be it religious, social or political.
Murchad99 1 month ago
@Murchad99 Ok, I'm not even going to debate with this, because you've clearly no regard for history, therefore your point is quite moot. Do not assume that because something is packaged a certain way, presented to various groups, but internally is something else, it must still be a valid demonstration of what it is 'packaged to be'.
By the way, last I checked, scientists can lose their tenure if they come to different conclusions other than evolutionary theories. Sounds dogmatic...
hoodooboodoo 3 weeks ago
@hoodooboodoo "Ok, I'm not even going to debate with this, because you've clearly no regard for history"
Translation: "you clearly know a sh*t-ton more about history than I do, so I will try to wave my hand and dismiss your arguments in summary and disappear for another month".
"scientists can lose their tenure if they come to different conclusions other than evolutionary theories."
Please give me an example.
I hope for your sake you're not referring to that horrific abortion...
Murchad99 3 weeks ago
@hoodooboodoo ... of a mockumentary "Expelled", which was quickly recognized as intellectual feces by the majority of the non-evangelical population. Scientists are discredited for pushing an unsupportable theory with no real proof, simply because of personal religious beliefs and political goals. In doing so, said scientist betrays the scientific method because they're trying to arrange the facts for what they believe, instead of arranging their assumptions based on the facts.
Murchad99 3 weeks ago
@hoodooboodoo "I'm surprised you can't distinguish humanism in its variety of flavors"
I already did.
Communism in it's purest form aspires to secular humanism, but has and does fail in almost all practical applications, almost always devolving into dictatorial or oligarchical control of all aspects of life. Applied Communism is the secular version of established religion, imposing the same dogmatic control and stifling individual freedom, a corrupt and contrary foil to humanistic values.
Murchad99 1 month ago
@Murchad99 So what would a successful version of communism look like? Out of curiosity.
hoodooboodoo 1 month ago
@hoodooboodoo "So what would a successful version of communism look like? "
One that doesn't involve humans.
If you have any more questions about history or political science, take the time to do some reading. But next time try to get your info somewhere other than answers . org.
To the original point, fanaticism is not an atheist attribute, nor a humanist one for that matter, and pointing at secular dictators does more to associate theism with these atrocities than atheism.
Murchad99 1 month ago
@Murchad99 Explain how this can associate a secular dictator with theism, when the aforementioned names are clearly not? Your basically saying that 1+1 is closer to one than it is to two.
As for answers.org, not sure where you got your reference from, but I am willing to look deeper into truths than simply looking at an answers website.
hoodooboodoo 3 weeks ago
@hoodooboodoo "Explain how this can associate a secular dictator with theism, when the aforementioned names are clearly not? Your basically saying that 1+1 is closer to one than it is to two."
I've explained this at least twice, and it's embarrassing that you keep asking the same question.
The basis of these atrocities is not a lack of belief in God. You can and have offered ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to justify such a claim. Rather, the atrocities stem from Dogma, and it is generally..
Murchad99 3 weeks ago
@hoodooboodoo ...irrelevant whether that dogma is social, political or religious. By definition, most of the world's major religions are fundamentally similar to totalitarian rule: they form a cult of personality around one or several persons and demand complete loyalty, reinforce it with propaganda and fear (of punishment or an overblown outside nemesis) and suppress challenging beliefs or ideas. The fact that dogmatic totalitarian dictators are atheist is incidental...
Murchad99 3 weeks ago
@hoodooboodoo ... just as the fact that many immoral politicians and businessmen attended Ivy League schools does not by associate mean that the country's most prestigious education institutions teach corruption.
If you want to debate the similarities between religion and dogmatic political ideology, or offer proof that atheism was directly responsible for history's atrocities, please present your argument point by point so I don't have to refute it 6 times.
Murchad99 3 weeks ago
@hoodooboodoo By the way, I'll overlook your breach of Godwin's law... religious argumentation is so thoroughly founded in persistent absurdity that said breach has actually been bumped down quite a few pegs in terms of thread-killers.
Murchad99 2 months ago
@Murchad99 And Godwin's law carries what weight to me? This is the equivalent of me quoting the Bible to you. Please, if you insist on trying to make yourself seem smarter, don't use words of people that I would have no regard for.
And if we're talking debate of religious argumentation, even you fall in that category, defending humanism, and your belief in a lack of God. Admit that much, and rid the conversation of hypocrisy, please.
hoodooboodoo 1 month ago
@hoodooboodoo "And Godwin's law carries what weight to me?" None, apparently. Of course, you could have spent 6 seconds looking it up, and you would have gotten the joke the first time.
"This is the equivalent of me quoting the Bible to you." I doubt it, I'm very well-versed. Please only quote if it pertains to a point, there's enough people preaching on youtube.
Murchad99 1 month ago
@Murchad99 Fair enough, but if you're as 'versed' as this guy, I'll just stick to logic.
hoodooboodoo 1 month ago
@hoodooboodoo "even you fall in that category, defending humanism, and your belief in a lack of God."
Again you lamely attempt to pigeonhole me into a belief system, because apologists have never tried this before. What's that heavy feeling.. oh no, is it a burden of proof? I am an agnostic adeist and a probability/judgment-based atheist, and I don't recall defending humanism in any of these posts. But given the difficulty you've had so far defining your -ism's I don't imagine that means much.
Murchad99 1 month ago
@Murchad99 What difficulty? Your arguments are as bad as the guy making the film. You've yet to provide one argument that I cannot give an account for. You still continue to miss the point that even though you may not agree w/ communism or humanism, the fact is, these atrocities were done to the people who lived in that country by atheist dictators who hated, or did not care for, an idea of giving account to a higher being.
I don't know what I'm having difficulty defending? :)
hoodooboodoo 1 month ago
@hoodooboodoo "these atrocities were done to the people who lived in that country by atheist dictators who hated ... an idea of giving account to a higher being." You have repeated this point but fail utterly and repeatedly to demonstrate why their atheism is relevant. Theists have been oppressing, killing and terrorizing people for thousands of years in the name of God, or some intermediary human form around which a cult was built.
Murchad99 1 month ago
@hoodooboodoo These atrocities were done by dictators who replaced fanaticism for religion with that of socialism and a cult of personality. The atrocities were no different than those being committed on behalf of religion, only they had more destructive technology with which to take and oppress life. What if the Crusades had had guns and bombs? The willingness to commit atrocities on behalf of a supposedly objective law puts these dictators in the company of popes.
Murchad99 1 month ago
@Murchad99 Oh good, so you can admit that these atheist forms of government were indeed seeking to replace one dogmatic view with another. Thank you for finally agreeing.
hoodooboodoo 3 weeks ago
Watch the near death experiences of
Howard Storm
Ian McCormack
Mickey Robinson
LizardLandscapes 2 months ago
subbed! Great stuff man!
BEEPBEEPVRROOMVRROOM 3 months ago
Subbed! :-)
Alineniz 3 months ago
how come you didn't say that any mormon's died for their faith ? You only said they were willing to be persecuted. You should add that if you can find a single founder of the mormon or any faith other than christianity that was willing to die as a defense for that faith. I'm just sayin !
MrTxroady 3 months ago
Thank you, keep doing what your doing.
lightbodyification 3 months ago
What about the Roman Nero and his reign of carnage? All the Christian's he burned upside down. You're an academic, you probably know this, yet you hold it back to make your arguement seem true. What about Lenin? He started the first Atheist state, he believed people were nothing but an 'idea' and so he could kill them in their millions if they resisted. That's the just of a Godless state. My own country SA, like America, is erring for such a state mentality. Where is the reason in all this?
andoson100 4 months ago
Dude... You're such a politician, you've got an underlying bias. Your statements are so broad...
andoson100 4 months ago
Psalms 37 Fret not thyself because of evildoers,neither be thou envious against the workers of iniquity.For they shall soon be cut down like the grass,and wither as the green herb.Trust in the LORD, and do good;so shalt thou dwell in the land, and verily thou shalt be fed.Delight thyself also in the LORD;and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart....
spicecrop 4 months ago
cont: Commit thy way unto the LORD;trust also in him; and he shall bring it to pass ,And he shall bring forth thy righteousness as the light,and thy judgment as the noonday.Rest in the LORD, and wait patiently for him,fret not thyself because of him who prospereth in his way,because of the man who bringeth wicked devices to pass.
spicecrop 4 months ago
JESUS LIVES> HE IS THE KING OF KING AND LORD OF LORDS.THE LION OF THE TRIBE OF JUDAH. THE SAVIOR OF THE WORLD. THE ANOINTED ONE.THE CHRIST. THE GOOD SHEPPARD. THE BRIDE GROOM.THE MESSIAH.GOD'S ONLY SON. PERFECT SON. THE HOLY ONE OF ISRAEL.
spicecrop 4 months ago
That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life seen (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)
That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus..
spicecrop 4 months ago
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 1st. John 1:8
spicecrop 4 months ago
Revelation 20:11-15
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire".
spicecrop 4 months ago
Revelation 20:11-15
"And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
spicecrop 4 months ago
This is the condemnation (verdict), that light has come into the world but men chose darkness rather than light because their deeds were evil. John 3:19
spicecrop 4 months ago
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The fool says in his heart, there is no God. Psalms 14:1-3
spicecrop 4 months ago
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spicecrop 4 months ago
Many will die for a ie - but few if any would WILLINGLY die for a lie - therefore ypu have to look for all the other arguments that defend Christ and his teachings and historicity. Focusing on fansticism is hardly a way to beat down The Christ. Atheists seem to think they are so smart. Lol
whiteliketar 6 months ago
@whiteliketar Yes, people are known to willingly die for what they know or should know to be a lie. See David Koresh, Jim Jones and the Hale Bopp cult.
I just don't understand how Christians can claim the folklore about the alleged early Christian martyrs who supposedly died for their beliefs "proves" the resurrection and yet dismiss all the modern cultists who die for their lies as somehow different. How is this different?
DeistPaladin 6 months ago
@DeistPaladin. I said willingly die for a lie. They believed whatever crap that was fed them was true. If they knew it was a lie - they wouldn't . please try to comprehend the statement before replying. get someone to help you understand my post before you reply.
whiteliketar 6 months ago
@whiteliketar Jim Jones, David Koresh and the leader of the Hale Bopp cult were all willing to die for their lies. They personally committed suicide with all their followers.
DeistPaladin 6 months ago
@DeistPaladin once again - your presuppositions are digging you deep into a quagmire of misunderstanding. Those that convince themselves that it is true - it is never a lie. those that came to the conclususion that it was a lie - try to leave - many of the Jones crowd tried to flee but were prevented by force. I am not sure you can extricate yourself here from you own premise but I wish you luck. think it through or get someone versed in philosophy to help. bye
whiteliketar 6 months ago
@whiteliketar I think you misunderstood me. Jim Jones HIMSELF, David Koresh HIMSELF, the guy who led the Hale Bopp cult HIMSELF, all died for their own lies.
Christians will say, "Oh but those were crazy cultists. But the early Christians, they knew the truth." This is classic special pleading.
DeistPaladin 6 months ago
@DeistPaladin And "the truth" again is?... The hearsay that we find in the bible? You can stand here and attest to the veracity of that book and its authenticity? Let's assume that Jesus lived and that the disciples that were willing to die did so because they just knew he was the son of god. He could have been just another charismatic philosopher, like many after him, that people just went nuts for. That still does not make christianity any "truer"...
Alineniz 3 months ago
@DeistPaladin - the problem is you don't know that - only the deranged or disturbed would do that - not normal people of reason - my very point - you might not have understood the point.
whiteliketar 1 week ago
@whiteliketar There is a way that seems right unto a man but the end thereof is destruction. Good comment, Atheists always show their foolishness, you can just stand back and see it. total jokers. What kills me is how one would go so much out of the way to defend nothing. Why would you put so much effort into trying to debunk what you don't believe unless it was to bring glory to God.
spicecrop 4 months ago
@whiteliketar
Atheists only ask for consistency and to practice what you preach. DOn't ask others to practice it for you.
sinnieleeonUtube 1 week ago
You can throw the bible away and history proves it true. If you want an excuse to live your life the way you want just go ahead. When you drop dead you will know the truth.
southboundin2001 7 months ago
Should I believe what history books tell me? If I pick up any history book, can I believe that it is true?
samweller96 7 months ago
@samweller96 Science is true. History tries to root out the false. Mythology is b.s. Clear?
DeistPaladin 7 months ago
I fully agree with you on the fact that fanaticism isn't valid as proof. It's ridiculous to think that fanaticism alone can be the basis of an argument.
Nevertheless, you bring in irrelevant and erroneous evidence to illustrate your argument, at which point your argument falls apart.
You mention that the Romans persecuted the Jews, yet were tolerant of Christians because Jesus taught his disciples to submit to secular governmental authority... (cont'd)
RobLaughter 8 months ago
You use this point to support an argument that seems to insinuate that Rome would not have persecuted the apostles and, accordingly, they wouldn't have died as martyrs, rather fools.
This is bad reasoning and bad history.
First, to claim that early Christians weren't persecuted is absurd. Tacitus records mass murders of Christians after the burning of Rome in AD 64 and the death of Nero in AD 68 (see The Annals of Tacitus).
RobLaughter 8 months ago
Tacitus is considered Rome's greatest historian and, as a secular scholar, he would have taken the utmost care in preserving an accurate account.
Second, Constantine had absolutely nothing to do with the apostles. Constantine was emperor from AD 306 to AD 336, nearly 250 years after the deaths of the apostles. To use Constantine's embrace of Christianity as "proof" that the apostles would not have been persecuted is completely false.
RobLaughter 8 months ago
Third, there was no concept of a "Christian" in the time of the early church. ALL of the apostles, most of the early church (Acts 2:41), and even Jesus himself were in fact Jews. They were considered as such by the Romans and would have been persecuted just the same.
The Jewish war began in AD 66, shortly AFTER the death of Paul in AD 65 or 66. Surely, Paul (a Jew from the Pharisaic sect) would have been persecuted during this time.
RobLaughter 8 months ago
While I agree with you that fanaticism alone is not sufficient to prove a truth claim, your supporting evidence is completely false and is misleading to your viewers. I would encourage you to be more diligent in ensuring that the evidence that you use to support your arguments--specifically in reference to the early church--is an accurate representation of historical truth, rather than a perverse mashup of unrelated historical events twisted to make a point.
RobLaughter 8 months ago
Im making the statement that it was not a belief that they died for. What would you like me to prove?
Micahthetatter 8 months ago
@Micahthetatter I'm asking for proof that the apostles (1) existed (2) that they were persecuted for what they believed (3) that they died holding their heads high waiting for their union with Jesus.
If you can do all that, congratulations, that puts them on par with David Koresh, Jim Jones and other cultists who die all the time for crazy beliefs.
DeistPaladin 8 months ago
@DeistPaladin what part of it wasnt a belief dont you understand? if I went to my death for christ it would be belief. The apostles were executed for something they witnessed, again, that is not a belief. So you want me to prove they existed, that seems silly, sort of like asking you to prove they didnt exist, cause I gurantee that you cannot. With that, I will need some time but i think I can come up with some compelling evidence for their existence.
Micahthetatter 8 months ago
@DeistPaladin you cannot make that argument.you cannot compare the modern day cults to the followers of Jesus Christ. The followers of cults die because they are either radical, misinterpret religions, or they simply have no evidence or facts to back up what they were dying for.Jesus Christ claimed to be the Jewish Messiah so some followed and some didnt.my point is that in itself nulls the argument of the cults.Jesus claimed to be Messiah therefore people followed him.
indianfootball74 8 months ago
@indianfootball74 Of course. Silly modern cults are a bunch of crazy radicals who believe in things without evidence or facts. But 2000 years ago, the people who believed that God needed to send himself down to earth to bleed on a cross so we can all fly up into the sky and be in his perfect kingdom in the clouds, well, that's completely different.
DeistPaladin 8 months ago
@DeistPaladin ok well thats pretty much what i just said.....its not the same so you cant compare Christs followers of the followers to Christ
indianfootball74 8 months ago
And im not talking about the 500, im talking about the apostles whom were brutally killed for a statement of fact.
Micahthetatter 8 months ago
@Micahthetatter prove it
DeistPaladin 8 months ago
The eye witnesses of christ didnt die for a belief. They were killed for not denying something they saw, not a belief. I would not die for something I knew to be a lie
Micahthetatter 8 months ago
I think the more logical way to prove the existence of Jesus the fact that our way of counting years just happens to revolve around this little thing called uh, his BIRTH!!!!! What do think BC stands for?? Before Christ!
oOsprinklesOo 8 months ago
If you insist on denying that Jesus even existed or that Christians were never persecuted for the first 300 years BEFORE Constantine than all your others points are discredited. To do not even believe what is recorded by historians (non Christians) who have documented Jesus and the persecutuion, is ignorant.
Alryleal 9 months ago
You should listen to your video and replace "Jesus" with your moms name... She never existed you know. ;-)
munktopia6 9 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
The Youtube user PROFMTH has some good videos showing how the apostles did not die for their faith in Jesus, or there is no reliable account or it was for other reasons.
saintpine 9 months ago
Comment removed
saintpine 9 months ago
I'm glad you addressed this because I am constantly confronted with this statement while debating christians as if it is justification for believing their religion
ichleibemeinenvr6 9 months ago
Encyclopedia Britannica (XV edition) ascribes 20,000 words to Jesus - more than any person who has ever lived
What a amateur
infinityy40 10 months ago
Who are the "we" you refer to as the ones trying to prove "Christians" wrong?
LSUfanhere 10 months ago
And so I think the crazy laws and requirements and were a way to become individuals by making them do ritualistic things as a way of showing their faith. I am pretty certain that Leviticus and Deuteronomy were meant only for these destitute individuals commanded by God to represent Him to the world. Okay, that's it... stop arguing over faith-- it's stupid. And if someone tells you that you have to have childish like mind to believe tall tales tell them Isaac Azimov had a childish mind, then.
RayTech70 11 months ago
So know after seeing this-- there are some translations that actually state that Aaron made the idol but told the freed slaves that it was 1 god and not several. Alot of other Israel slave misfires curred and Moses actually took credit for getting water out of a rock and God was a little testy about it. But it gave me a real clear picture of how these individuals behaved-- they had no sense if individuality... they may as well have been a pack of animals--
RayTech70 11 months ago
they were breaking these new commandments and had to be killed for that. Moses talked him out of it, they didn't see the tablets... so he down to meet the party monsters and it really pissed him. I mean Moses basically did a commando type prisoner snatch from the worlds reigning people who happen to be assholes and having to convert over to the idea of 1 God was probably trying-- and now these "punks" that he helped save were ripping up a party carpet and worshiping a golden cow.
RayTech70 11 months ago
So with the introductions aside Moses hung out with God for 40 days and Nights carving out the 10 commandments. Down below the Israelites were starting to think that they were screwed. Where's this God we see not God here and to make easy for them Aaron asked for gold and other metal and formed it into a golden calf and they partied like it was 2399 BC I don't know it was a big deal IDOLS! At that point God new this and told Moses they broke the commandment by worshiping an idol
RayTech70 11 months ago
There is a scene in Exodus that really confused me but it's warming up to me now . Moses did his plagues and his right hand man / brother Aaron participated in the "my staff is bigger than your staff" contests. So they barely escape wander for quite while stuff like that, then Moses goes up to Saini and basically chats it up with God... not gods, which was very weird to people who naturally adopted polytheism and idol worship. So he actually brought up there and told him, "It's not a joke dude!
RayTech70 11 months ago
So I told my sociologist friend Diane that I was uncomfortable with sharing the Bible and that Leviticus and Numbers are a pain in the ass for Christian and Jewish apologists. That's when it dawned on me-- why would God have to direct these chosen one with the most annoying micromanagement ruling style I have ever heard of. I like told the sociologist that I would probably have fled Israel and beg Pharoah to take me--I really wouldn't do. Or maybe all expense 40 Day / Night desert getwaway.Yep
RayTech70 11 months ago
I got to the point where I start asking my paster for some reasonable meaning behind strange livestock practices and just dumb stuff-- if did what Leviticus and Deuteronomy says to do people will probably send you on vacation somewhere. One thing I noted and this idea came from the sociologist was that many of these Israelites were born into slavery and having Moses go in and butt heads with Pharaoh, give him plauges --- the 50's movie with Heston is pretty cool, I think Exodus story is cool
RayTech70 11 months ago
The law did not require surviving males because of the mortality rate-- we don't know but can suspect that maybe evolution has only brought that 40% to modern society through various means, muscles change, crap like that. But legally the mean woman could avoid having sex with Hagar if she could prove that filled the male offspring requirement. Women were very second class back then. It's just an idea but one last think-- everyone likes to rip the Bible on Leviticus and Deuteronomy.
RayTech70 11 months ago
Almost done, I promise! You know the Jewish lady who's baby died and she tried to steal another womans and in an act that caused moms to hate her for thousands of years, she gleefully was up for Solomons offer to cut the kid in half. I remember asking my mom to justify that bitch. Well it's not a fact or anything but there was a law that stated if a man dies and his widow is without a male offspring, she is to have relations with his brother, or up the line father, grandfather under law
RayTech70 11 months ago
Right from the beginning to when Satan lost his appeal to prove that sin is Gods problem not the creation when Jesus claimed Our victory. I have read some pretty convincing papers on what happened to barren Jewish women and it was not good. If you were a female back then you were not appropriate because you were barren. I've heard that men would not have sex with their wives for fear that they would die in childbirth! Realistically they were required to produce one healthy male and that is it
RayTech70 11 months ago
God's evil twin of the Old Testament was hell bent on sexual immorality and bound and determined to rule the Israelites by making them do crazy stuff and doing weird rape exchanges, polygamy, and in one instance if two men were to go at it they were to be executed. I go back and I read what is there and God does come across as a impatient person. I guess. Well, the sexual perversion was highly squared at fallen angels procreating with women and screwing up the genome that would produce Jesus.
RayTech70 11 months ago
As early back as 1800 the fatality rate of child bearing was a whopping 40% That means either the mother died or, more often the child-- they actually compress babies heads and many of them died as a result. We didn't start sterilizing medical equipment until around 1910... Pasteur came up the process but for some reason French people are slow (just kidding!) It took a while for sterilization to become standard procedure (and even today they still mess it up).
RayTech70 11 months ago
And Jesus saved a prostitute from getting stone (oh, there is no marijuana in heaven-- just kidding)... So what do we do with a gay person who doesn't like religions because religion despises them? This is what I tell them and it makes sense-- I'm not a sociologist and I'm not a mother but I do know the importance of procreation and a lot people simply can't have babies. The homosexual is really not in trouble in my view, but they certainly were during a critical time in the growth
RayTech70 11 months ago
Satan has nothing to lose so this is going to be a nice last chance dick move he does to god and you get witness it. I'm really nervous about that but hey, John 3:16 and I've already told God that I not interesting a harp but will try and I will float a cloud every 27th Tuesday. We'll see... Okay back to the gay person who we all know is born with the tendency to be gay. I don't approve homosexuality but I also don't approve adultery which I think is worse because a relationship dies or lies
RayTech70 11 months ago
I told her that God does not measure sins in weights an values and really there is only 1 sin He absolutely will not forgive and that blasphemy of the Holy Spirit which includes destroying the Bible both physically and psychologically. Its the most heinous form of blasphemy that really goes into Satan territory and also too, did you know that Satan is going to telling God/Jesus that you are sinner because God made sin... and he's going hammer with all dumb sinful crap that you did.
RayTech70 11 months ago
Well, I am about done here. Tell me what you think DeistdPaladin-- I really enjoy an intelligent conversation-- OH, okay here's my one-in-million never been fathomed before to amaze all of you. It's a stunner... just kidding. I am working on what I think is a reasonable truce for homosexuals to really understand that they are being unfairly put to judgement from Old Testament laws and carryovers, and even Romans talks about it but I met that sociologist and I had tell her I do believe
RayTech70 11 months ago
If you think that the United States has pretty mean buff greeen Berets and Seals that live off of recycled nuclear wastewater and smile for the while. The angels that are in the old testament will Predator look like a Pomeranian. Its a very weird kind power also-- the type of which your brain cannot fathom -- and you are not going to be able to exhibit the type of mad yelling screaming, fussing and cussing I know and atheist would want to dish out.
RayTech70 11 months ago
A Christian wins the promise but something has to be done about your version of sin, we all have it. And on the atheist said the same thing would take place so save the Al Pacino bitch out because you won't have what had that let you open cans of whoop as PLUS Angels are kinda cute-- you know wings and harps clouds... Ezekiel was really good at trying to put into words what he saw and I know a really good sociologist who has a very good idea of what the mindset of whoever it was that wrote that
RayTech70 11 months ago
Athiests have some of the most clever "last words" to give to the Creator, I mean executioner. I get a lot emails from people telling what they would say and much of has mimicked death row inmate passes... a few really tore into God and just laid it out to Him and then they bitter mafia like shout in disgust as they get hurled into the heart of some galaxy somewhere. I don't really know what it be like,but I can tell you on Christian side-- you are not going to see God until you are clean.
RayTech70 11 months ago
The biggest misconception with Christians is they tend to think that once you ceremoniously admit you are powerless over sin and ask Jesus to be in your heart that you'll die day, shoot down a tunnel, you might see a communion alien, or some people say your watch your life pass before-- kind of like an in-flight movie from LA to New York. Most them don't realize that are still going to be judged and I have really studied this stuff and I can tell you that your going watch enemies of yours burn
RayTech70 11 months ago
In my opinion: atheists need to back off and be happy that the world is no longer shunning them. Most of the Christians I have known have a plug and play version of Hell and the lake fire and I've actually had atheists tell me what they would say to God if He was real and you had explain yourself. OH BOY. I have been visiting both atheist channels and Christian defense channels both really don't know the answers to those questions.
RayTech70 11 months ago
So back onto my belief is more true than your belief I think people need to look at themselves and ask themselves "You know why am I defending a belief? That's like fighting to prove that your mom is really your mom-- see she smiles at me! The thing that attracted me here in honesty: religion has for thousands of years pretty much act as both law and peace keeping. You have a lot of hostility toward people who (found the greatest new evidence or thought regarding the argument you had yeas ago
RayTech70 11 months ago
you are going to see a good number of new atheists bounce back to their previous belief system, you'll have atheists out there frustrated because they don't have a church or something comparable to raise their spirits and help them resist the fear of death and animal panic. At one of our recent sessions we had to be the "odd man" in a series of what if scenarios. The odd man will take greater risks because they do not have offsprint, they are not married, and no one else.
RayTech70 11 months ago
The reason I wanted to comment on your video is you display just the right amount of vigor when it comes to the reality of a distorted public mindset. Somehow, people are going to have to stop fighting over faith. It's stupid. Its not fight worthy. You can prove anything doing it: the atheist cant' convince the believer into rejecting myth and the religious person can't get the atheist to accept God... it's God-- what's so bad about God and your going to see the atheist (more)
RayTech70 11 months ago
Right now, we are trying to come up with a secular replacement that will aid atheists in the same physical regard as a church does it's believers. We're already starting packets out to certain groups to join in the analysis. So that's what I do, I'm also science fiction and fantasy author, so I really get into game theory. I cannot help but be concerned about newly deconverted Christians facing that dystopian future they now reject but are being forced to reswallow.
RayTech70 11 months ago
What we are finding is really unfortunate. I would have to say that Mormon groups are the best prepared, but but even their resources are going disappear very quickly. I'm not trying to scare anybody but as a year or two ago our country and much of the world is locked into a scenario that if say our electrical grid were to fail in one of dozens critical spots after about 30 days people in America will be dying in the millions.
RayTech70 11 months ago
I am in a government funded think tank group to basically in vision a disaster that will happen soon. The basic are the country crippled it applies game theory critical breakdowns in a myriad of possibilities and my team is charged with how to catalog survivors without certain Christian groups calling it the mark of 666... We're great difficulty and do run batteries of tests on volunteers and use their reactions and ability to face this disaster and not go fringe.
RayTech70 11 months ago
When you that you have to be "like a child" to get into heaven the media loves take that literally but that is not what Jesus was saying. I won't get into it here,but this whole about God having a creation that willfully loves Him back requires a sense of wonder that all children have and as your grow up you will lose it unless you feed the wonder. But don't fall into the false stereotype because I happen know some very intelligent persons that hide their Christianity so that they can live.
RayTech70 11 months ago
I felt odd and here I was, a Mensa member since 6 years old, believing a fairy tail.All I can say is Mensa can be weird..I don't get nervous around them but I looked at them and said that faith was a great break away from responsible critical thinking, analysis, and modification of game theory.The 20% said that they knew I was a Christian and they had been waiting for the opportunity to share their Christian beliefs with me.I'll be done with these comments and if you want me to erase them I will
RayTech70 11 months ago
Now the fun part :) I am a well known person and I rank very high on Mensa and bothered me because I really couldn't explain to them that I pray to God to keep my intellect and to always find the "occams razor" of society- that is hard to do when people simply hate what you think or believe.Well I ended up admitting to my fellow Mensa members that I am a believer and I'd say about 20% of them looked at me in shock and said,"You mean to tell that possess great intellect and yet you still believe?
RayTech70 11 months ago
Our atheist group uses me as a friendly passage from deconversion and I handle them with great care. Going from deathbed to paradise to suddenly this is it can be shocking. One stuck out for me is this young couple deconverted and a family was murdered and they came to me and said that Atheism was not right because they grew up seeing funerals and gatherings at the deceased church and the preacher and a special message. So when our atheist chapter sends them to me its largely to prepare them.
RayTech70 11 months ago
The last 25 years of the 20th century experienced a radical surge in salvation doctrine. The book "The Late Great Planet Earth" painted a chilly dystopia future where if you didn't take the mark of the beast it's off with your head! It got crazy and I was growing up so I learned great deal about the roots of Christianity as result. End times prophecy is and invite to morbid curiousity and it describes anti Jesus that literally would be the anti-particle of Jesus-- Anti-Christ FEAR!
RayTech70 11 months ago
I am personally dissatisfied with the way the Protestant movement has fanned out and pretty puts people back into the pre-protestant era where Christians were taught they had to get salvation through the church and that was a conflict because what happens if the Holy Mother Roman Church has too much power: Luther and many others felt that Jesus came to us and gave us each a part of the proverbial pie meaning it is not your church that goes to heaven, but your soul will if you believe in Me.
RayTech70 11 months ago
Well, I am a Christian but I have a great consulate with the athiest chapter in my community. People express frustration with Protestant Christianity because there are so many different "flavors." It not like that, really: a Christian Church has a core doctrine based on John 3:16 and that is shared by Catholics also, and the unorthodox "Jews for Jesus" groups. So in reality there 3 main divisions and the hybrid reformed Jews for Jesus and Judaism (if my writing bothers you, I'll delete them)
RayTech70 11 months ago
I can see where your frustration lies but look, I'm an American... if I am arrested in another country there are some countries that will charge me as their citizen... this was a major topic with Julian Assange and so I on the Book of Mormon being accepted by other Christian Protestant church's have a similar claim. One of doctrines that Mormonism teaches is mix of standard burn in hell flavored hell with a good dash of Judaism' sheol, and a little bit of Catholic purgatory. (more)
RayTech70 11 months ago
I love Jesus thank you .
"if you want peace of mind and happiness have faith if you want truth search it "
Fredrick Nietzchie !
There you have it . It is one of yours who said it . Now leave us alone we wanna be happy haha
Thanks mr atheists ;)
blopajmbar62 11 months ago
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I have come accross with your video on fanaticsm.. I appriciate your efforts and frank approach. Jesus Christ's Disciple were martyred, is irrelevant reasoning if we use only the claim that says they were martyred. I think rather you should view the life of the Jesus Disciples, pre-crucifixion, during the crucifixion and post crucifixion and their death. Even Jesus claiming about the way His disciple shall die should not be overlooked. Fanaticsm does exist in any type of world-view that exist.
jess1on 1 year ago
I have come accross with your video on fanaticsm.. I appriciate your efforts and frank approach. Jesus Christ's Disciple were martyred, is irrelevant reasoning if we use only the claim that says they were martyred. I think rather you should view the life of the Jesus Disciples, pre-crucifixion, during the crucifixion and post crucifixion and their death. Even Jesus claiming about the way His disciple shall die should not be overlooked. Fanaticsm does exist in any type of world-view that exist,
jess1on 1 year ago
i can prove Jesus lived without using a bible. you are right,someone dying doesnt prove anything. The romans did persecute the jews. that is well known. try reading the writings of tacius,the great roman historian.
killforce787878 1 year ago
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I think it's notable that Atheists keep coming back to listen to apologetics... you'd think if they were really SURE of their beliefs that they would have better things to do.
BUT: The truth is WAY DEEP DOWN they want to believe in God, and to know Him, because that's what they were created for - though they vehemently deny it.
lastdaysguitar 1 year ago
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I went to every presupper video I could, every bahnsen video that allowed open comments such as this and posted them to check out Dawson Bethrick's bahnsenburner.blogspot.com
and almost all, if not all of them marked it as spam. why are presuppers so scared of bahnsenburner.blogspot? maybe becuz u get schooled in truth. ; ]
actionjackson864 1 year ago
@Omnicron777 And you have come to this conclusion at the age of 18? I would like to discuss what you find to be lies. I sent you a message.
ParadigmShifter29 1 year ago
@Omnicron777
Yes and those signs were to be proof to those who words alone will not reach. Yes, He told them to dedicate their lives to spread the Word. I thought you were referring to literally dying right then and there. Would you really like me to explain Matthew 16:28?
ParadigmShifter29 1 year ago
@Omnicron777
And that is the problem. Search the scriptures. Jesus came exactly as the Old Testament was written. I am sure you have studied these topics but you believe the scriptures were written only to appease the current situation. But as Jesus showed, that is not the case. Jesus came and accomplished something much more than just overcoming territorial invasions.
Yes, Jesus spoke of love. Jesus said this because burial these days is really only to ease the minds of those alive.
ParadigmShifter29 1 year ago
@Omnicron777
To give up their lives because the world was ending? It actually says the opposite. To continue to do what they were doing. servants be servants, masters be masters. Jesus said to the Jews to search the scriptures. He said they were blinded to how He was fulfilling the prophesies. Mosaic Law foretold the coming of Christ.
ParadigmShifter29 1 year ago
@Omnicron777
how his disciples would not be harmed by death until their time was appropriate. It was their job to preach the Word and get it out to the people. I believe they did a great job.
ParadigmShifter29 1 year ago
@Omnicron777 I also encourage you to study the history surrounding the time of Jesus. He came into the world when a mighty Messiah was expected. The people expected a mighty conqueror. But Jesus came in a different sort of way. I believe Jesus didnt start his ministry until 30 because He had to be of age to be listened to. Jesus also taught to love God first. It was a teaching to organize our priorities. Jesus gave a lot of different examples about ...........
ParadigmShifter29 1 year ago
@Omnicron777
Ok, and why do most modern cult leaders get thrown in jail? Because there is something about their teaching that contradicts either the law of the country or some sort of moral code. I encourage you to look into what the Bible says about how Jesus was arrested and killed.
ParadigmShifter29 1 year ago
If you think that Christians are parroting arguments what about the fact that atheism is not saying anything new either. Your red herring using the Book of Mormon does not prove your argument against the disciples. You also have to investigate the external sources that attest to the martyrdom of the disciples. Straw man on your cults comments. Your argument for special pleading is bankrupt as well. Oh yes, Hollywood is a reliable source. Why don't you read the ancient writers.
christianthinker 1 year ago
I do not find it hard to believe that in the early stages of the Christianity, the believers were persecuted until Constantine attempted to unify his nation by mixing Christian and Pagan beliefs. Yes, I agree, fanaticism does not prove the historicity of the Bible, but it does, if true, demand an element of respect. If the followers of Christ were persecuted for their beliefs, then simply gave them up to appease the pain, would you believe the message?
ParadigmShifter29 1 year ago
@ParadigmShifter29 It makes no difference one way or the other. You should understand this since you reject all the cults that have come along since. You don't believe Jim Jones, David Koresh or the Heaven's Gate cults despite how all these leaders and followers were willing to die for it. It lends zero credibility in my mind so the lack of such fanaticism wouldn't take anything away either. It's silly either way.
So why do you ask me to accept an argument that you don't believe?
DeistPaladin 1 year ago
@DeistPaladin
I am not asking you to accept an argument, but rather, point out the difference between other cults in history and Christianity. There is a large difference between dying for a cause and being tortured for a cause. The element of bearing pain, physical pain, to hold true to what you have seen or witnessed speaks volumes to me. Fanaticism means irrational devotion. I personally believe it would take rational devotion to endure torture for your faith.
ParadigmShifter29 1 year ago
@ParadigmShifter29 The history of cults shows otherwise. People can be convinced to endure all manner of suffering for beliefs they should know are false. To study cults in recent times is not just to study needless death but also humiliation, self-denial and even mutilation. Further, they cling to these beliefs stubbornly. I've heard that Scientologists continue to believe even after learning about Xenu.
DeistPaladin 1 year ago
@DeistPaladin
So in other words, are you rejecting the possibility that the disciples really did have the experience described in the Bible? That there is no way this could have occurred? I agree, people can be convinced to do very horrible things. But, the men of the Bible were persecuted because they knew the truth and were not gong to deny what they witnessed, even to pain and death. To me, dying for a belief is not the complete story, but it does add to credibility.
ParadigmShifter29 1 year ago
@ParadigmShifter29 History shows that believing in the truth of a cause deeply enough that you would die for it is neither confined to Christians, nor proof that the cause is, in fact, true. This is why he brings up Heaven's Gate and the Mormons.
Saying that the men of the Bible died "because they knew the truth," offers no answer to the real question, which is, how do we know that what they believed was the truth? The deaths prove nothing.
jalehtri 1 year ago
@jalehtri
I totally agree with you. I also understand why he mentioned Heaven's Gate and the Mormons. To die for what you believe is true does not prove that it is true. But it does offer a sort of credibility. Hence torture tactics used today to draw out the truth. For me, the men of the Bible did not simply die for a faith, but instead died/tortured for what they had witnessed. There is a difference. Besides, in my opinion, Mormons and HG are not great examples.
ParadigmShifter29 1 year ago
Good video
adobePC 1 year ago
Is that God handing Adam a brain? Lol.
JCLeSinge 1 year ago
another example how the book of mormon has tainted the validity of true christianity
lilbeaveymac 1 year ago
I think you missed a key point/premise of this argument. It is normally used as "proof" of the resurrection not necessarily that all christian claims are true.
I heard the argument presented like this:
When Jesus was arrested and crucified and arrested, his disciples had fled and Peter even goes as far to deny even knowing him. However, after seeing the resurrected body of Jesus, they were now willing to die for their beliefs. Thus giving credibility to claim of the resurrection.
sinebass808 1 year ago
I think you left out the key point and premise of this argument. The argument is normally used as "proof" of the resurrection, not necessarily that all Christian claims are true.
I heard it presented this way:
When Jesus was arrested and crucified his disciples fled. Peter had denied ever knowing him... But after they saw the resurrected body of Jesus, they were now willing to die for their belief . Thus, giving credibility to the resurrection claims.
Thanks
sinebass808 1 year ago
I'm really enjoying your videos - very intelligent and presented well. Keep up the great work!
Old Fart Rants
oldfartrants 1 year ago
well said
boaz1144 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
The fact that people die for what they believe is a pretty strong arguement. To give up your life,(Peter hanging on a Cross upside down) is pretty compelling. It comes down to faith and facts. You simply argue facts. Faith is of the supernatural that only God gives. You do not accept God and therefore have no faith in him. Why would he reveal himself to you? He says wont because you can't see what is before your very eyes. I feel sorry for you and your cause. Take your chances at judgement.
jaythecommish 2 years ago